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The Antiscience – Part II

Posted November 04, 2010 4:45 PM by Bayes

Preface

What is the Antiscience? The Antiscience is an aversion to the abstraction of science. Science is expressed mostly through mathematics among scientists. When a theory is presented to a nontechnical or semi-technical audience, people who do not have the mathematic background needed to actually understand the work being presented, simplifications are made to convey the general concepts involved.

In the past this worked because the public had an intrinsic trust in the scientific method and did not presume to question the integrity of the work. Increasingly, however, an aversion for abstractions has developed into a disdain of abstraction among the general public. Applied to science, distrust has arisen regarding concepts that cannot be proven concretely in the sense of either by a manifestation of a new technology based on the theory, or by some demonstration of the principle.

The absurdity of discussing and debating science without understanding the math involved is analogous to debating the grammar of Leo Tolstoy in War and Peace without being able to speak, read or write Russian. Yet this is one of the most apparent features of the Antiscience.

We must tread carefully and not let our personal prejudices fill in the blanks here. The Antiscience is much more than creationism or believing the world began a few thousand years ago. Those are fringe beliefs that are easily written off as the eccentricities of a particular group. The Antiscience is much more pervasive and insidious than that.

The Antiscience permeates our cultures of the West, manifesting itself in subtle vanities and superstitions, often seemingly allied with science itself, but just as unfounded and ridiculous as those more obvious examples listed above. This version of the Antiscience resides in all of us to differing degrees, since we are all children of the age and culture. It is easy to point the finger at the fringe and deride the obvious illogic of their beliefs. It is much harder to dispassionately examine our own beliefs for similar frivolities.

The Antiscience is a manifestation of the anti-abstraction sentiment characteristic of the philosophical age in which we reside, the age of existentialism. It is completely logical that our philosophical age, which began at the end of World War II, should reject the abstract, given the atrocities abstractions abetted in the World Wars and the emergence of ideological totalitarian regimes afterwards identified as enemies of "the west". However, as with all ages, what began as repudiation and rejection of the excesses of abstraction of the previous age has now itself wandered into its own excess.

A brief note on the title "The Antiscience"

The title "Anti(Subject)" usually signifies a polemical essay or treatise. If this was a two-part series against science, I would have named it "Antiscience". But that is not the intent of these blog entries. Rather, I named this two-part series "The Antiscience" because I'm trying to explain the origin and nature of an already existing anti-science sentiment held by society and manifested in a multitude of ways.

For those who are familiar with classical literature, this analogous to the difference between the titles "Anticato" and "The Anticato". The first, "Anticato", was a set of arguments against Cato the Younger written by Julius Caesar around 45 BC. The latter, "The Anticato" (a book that was never actually written) would be an evaluation of those arguments.

A brief note on the topic of religion appearing in this work

Yes, these posts contain references to religion. Anyone who has actually read Hegel or Nietzsche or Sartre will understand why. Let me be clear - I am not promoting any doctrine or set of beliefs. Religion is a pervasive aspect of the human experience and it would be impossible to discuss the philosophy of any age without including it. I do ask the reader to try and remember as you read this that the source of the Antiscience is not religion. I feel I have to say this explicitly here in the beginning because it is a preconception many readers incorrectly hold.

I hope the clarifications above relieve my critics of at least some of their misconceptions regarding my motives and conclusions. Thank you all for taking the time to read this essay and your subsequent comments.

The Antiscience, Part II

"All movements go too far". -Bertrand Russell

Perhaps the most obvious vanity of humanity is the perpetual belief that somehow we are not repeating some pattern of the past in a new and interesting way. In The Antiscience Part I, I described a pattern in philosophy since the Renaissance where new, contrary ideas are born in opposition to the overzealousness of a previous philosophical age. Those ideas mature and become the philosophy of a new age. Finally, those ideas are taken far beyond their original intent and are usurped by a new set of contrasting ideas - and the age ends.

In Part II, I hope to demonstrate that this pattern continues today and that The Antiscience is nothing more than the overzealous last act of our current age of philosophy.

Two World Wars and the Death of Realism

World War II ended with the surrender of Japan, the last of the Axis powers, to the Allies on August 14, 1945. In total, World War II (1939-1945) had resulted in over 60 million deaths. Two-thirds of those deaths were civilians.

Not since the Black Death had so high a percentage of the population died so quickly. The bloody French Revolution (1789-1799) and subsequent Napoleonic Wars (1803-1815) had caused only 5 million deaths, more than ten times less than the slaughter of World War II.

From 1800 to 1939, the world's population had little more than doubled, yet there had been 10 times more death in a quarter of the time. Before World War II, of course, came World War I, a conflict previously known as the Great War, a title that could be held for only 21 years. World War I had resulted in roughly 16 million deaths. This was a horror at the time, but quaint by World War II's new standard.

"Evil is the product of the ability of humans to make abstract that which is concrete."- Jean Paul Sartre

At the end of the first half of the 20th century, two World Wars had lead to somewhere between 50 to 100 million deaths. That number alone, although horrific, wasn't the worst of it. Rather, it was in the manner of death where the real horror lay. Men had been doing terrible things to men for as long as man could act, but the detached way in which people were now killed could not help but stir revulsion in those who were involved.

Whether it was from poison gas, machine gun, artillery or bomb, the method seemed to have efficiency. Efficient killing: was there anything that more symbolized the Realist philosophy?

The concentration camps of Europe weren't just notably terrible for the Nazi slaughter of millions of Gypsies, Poles and Jews. These "camps", as they were euphemistically called, were models of efficiency that employed techniques developed during the Industrial Revolution to mass produce death.

The efficiency was – and is - disturbing. These deaths weren't murders of passion, but of the detached brutality of an amoral society. It was as if the society itself had become sociopathic. This was deplorable behavior justified by the "truths" of realism, or at least what passed for truth. Fascism, Communism, and Social Darwinism were all constructs of the Age of Realism, and were responsible for over 100 million deaths (counting Stalin's purges).

Finally, all of this death and destruction and dehumanization reached a crescendo with the Atom Bomb. In a few days, two cities in Japan were destroyed and hundreds of thousands were killed. Suddenly, man had the ability to cause death like never before. The World Wars ended, but the sense of relief was short-lived. When the U.S.S.R., America's ally turned adversary, developed its own atom bomb by 1949, a nuclear conflict resulting in deaths far beyond anything seen before was suddenly possible.

People felt like leaves caught up in a hurricane, swept around by the gusts of human endeavor without the slightest ability to resist. They were bit players in a vast tragedy and they knew it. All these philosophers and their complicated theories hadn't changed anything. Men lived, married, fought, died, just as they always had, except now man had the ability to devastate man beyond imagining.

So what do you do when, at any moment, you could be playing your death scene with a mushroom cloud backdrop? How does one liberate oneself from a constant fear of extermination?

The answer was to reject the abstract and to embrace the moment. Out of the carnage of the Second World War emerged a school of thought manifestly appropriate for living under the shadow of nuclear annihilation. The movement was called Existentialism.

Existentialism

"Every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness, and dies by chance." - Jean-Paul Sartre

A common mistake that is often made when evaluating our current age of philosophy, the age of Existentialism, is to confuse it with Realism. Although Existentialism and Realism are very different ways of looking at the world, these two schools of philosophy coexisted for a brief time, as is always the case when this sort of change occurs.

The confusion between Existentialism and Realism manifests itself most obviously with the inclusion of Friedrich Nietzsche as a Existentialist, or as a father of Existentialism. This is absurd. An existentialist doesn't say "God is dead"; an existentialist doesn't care.

The true father of Existentialism was Jean-Paul Charles Aymard Sartre, who stirred the movement with his essays, "The Transcendence of the Ego", written in 1937, and with "Being and Nothingness" in 1943. At their core, both essays are assaults on abstract thought. As a movement, Existentialism was born in 1945 with a lecture by Satre to the Club Maintenant in Paris. Later, this talk was published as "Existentialism is Humanism," a short book that can be summarized into a few important tenets.

Man defines himself and is not subject to predestination

Man is thus responsible for his actions

Man is ultimately alone

Man is thus free, being subject to no higher authority

There is no ideal morality

Man is thus free to form his own morals

Basically, the book is saying that there is no perfect, idealized reality or morality with which man must conform. The abstract ideals that were ought in previous philosophical ages were mirages. At first, this seems like a devastating thought. After all, without higher ideals, what is the point of man's existence? Sartre, however, comforts the reader by pointing out that this in fact liberates man, since he is only answerable to himself and thus is free.

Existentialism as Antirealism

"Evil is the product of the ability of humans to make abstract that which is concrete."- Jean Paul Sartre

The Democratic West had just endured terrible wars in which its enemies were ideologically-driven, either by Fascism or Shintoism, and was now engaged in a Cold War with the ideology of Communism. It isn't difficult to see why Western thinkers would embrace a philosophy that rejected conformity to a strict doctrine or ideology, and which instead championed personal freedom.

Certainly, the pervasive threat of nuclear annihilation created an audience ready for a philosophy that deemphasized the abstract and emphasized existence, or literally living in the moment. Soon, Existentialism was adopted as the West's de facto school of philosophy.. Philosophers turned their backs on high-minded ideals and abstractions, and instead concentrated on tangibles. Sartre, Camus, Simone de Beauvoir, Maurice Merleau-Ponty, and other philosophers explored and defined what it meant to be an Existentialist.

The result was an emphasis on the concrete and a dismissal of the abstract with regard to human existence and action. For example, killing a person means that you are cruel. It doesn't matter if there abstract justifications for the murder; the action itself is what matters.

Since the ideological-driven genocides of the early 20th century were enabled through the philosophy of Realism, Existentialism fought back by invalidating the Realists' argument. If you murder 6 million helpless people, you're cruel - whatever your reasons. This example illustrates a common theme in all new ages of philosophy. The new philosophical schools make a lot of sense in the beginning, usually because they provide a contrast to the excesses of the previous age. Invariably, however, as the new philosophy evolves, grey areas emerge - and the seeds of future excesses are sown.

Existentialism in the Late 20th Century

"I tore myself away from the safe comfort of certainties through my love for truth - and truth rewarded me." - Simone de Beauvoir

There was a play staged in 1966 called Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern were the two courtiers hired by King Claudius to spy on his usurped nephew, Hamlet, in the Shakespearian play of that name. Rosencrantz & Guilderstein Are Dead follows the protagonists, Guil and Rose, as they are swept along in the events which unfold in Hamlet. The genius of the 1966 drama is that the two protagonists, rather than being portrayed as conspirators with King Claudius, are instead presented as bit players in a drama where they are unable to avoid their fate and are swept along in the tide of the major characters. Guil and Rose had a role to play, and it wasn't a happy role, but it was a role they couldn't avoid because it was bigger than them.

Guil articulates this existential dilemma in the following soliloquy:

Guil: "Wheels have been set in motion, and they have their own pace, to which we are....condemned. Each move is dictated by the previous one--that is the meaning of order. If we start being arbitrary (Guil means Guil and Rose by "we") it'll just be a shambles: at least, let us hope so. Because if we happened, just happened to discover, or even suspect, that our spontaneity was part of their order, we'd know that we were lost"

In the 1950s, Existential ideas began to become increasingly ingrained in the public's psyche. Young actors such as James Dean and Marlon Brando explored existential angst in the movies Rebel Without a Cause (really, could there be a more existential title?) and The Wild One.

The Beat Generation was laying the groundwork for the cultural revolution to come in the 1960s. With Allen Ginsberg's Howl, with its taboo subjects such as drugs and homosexuality, and Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged expressing the triumph of rugged individualism over social conformity, the 1950s were alive with Existentialist thought and feeling.

The 1960s and 1970s saw the full-on adoption of Existentialist ideals by the mainstream. In the United States, there was the passage of the Civil Rights Act and the birth of the conservative movement. This latter phenomenon, which stood for increased personal freedom and laissez-faire economics, would rise from the ashes of Barry Goldwater's presidential defeat in 1964 to achieve Ronald Regan's victory in 1980.

Meanwhile, the counterculture of the 60s and 70s ushered in the rejection of the old social mores by standing against the restrictions of society and embracing behaviors such as "free love" and mind-altering drug use. The 1980s welcomed the triumph of existentialism with the ascendance of freedom as the West's defining virtue in its struggle with the "evil empire", a phrase spoken by Ronald Reagan himself, and the Soviet Union's ideological allies in the Eastern Block.

Finally, the post Cold War 1990s witnessed a world where laissez-faire economics reigned supreme. The baby-boomers, the first generation born in the Existential Age, had matured and made the tenets of Existential philosophy the mainstream.

Existential Angst and Freedom

Two themes that occur in Existentialism are Angst and Freedom. Existential Angst, the lonely side effect of the self-determined existence (i.e., there is no higher ideal to guide you), was explored and eventually praised as the curse of the thinking man. Angst was elevated from a sad emotional state to a condition of the heroically aware. Freedom - ironically enough, since Existentialism was to be a movement of no abstractions - became an ideal. Freedom was the purest characteristic of life, and must be preserved against superstition and ideology.

At first, the veneration of freedom meant that overt political repression (such as was seen in Fascist and Communist governments) must be opposed; however, by the end of 20th century, this tenet had morphed into a doctrinal view among some that any restriction of any kind upon freedom was negative. This, of course, was far beyond the original intent of Sartre in "Existentialism is Humanism". But as we've seen already, all philosophies are taken too far eventually.

This overzealous interpretation was inevitable. It should be noted, however, that before it was taken to such extremes, the reduction of restrictions and promotion of freedom in all fields did much good in the West. Examples include the widespread adoption of laissez-faire economics, which removes the state from transactions between private parties; and the civil rights movement, which essentially eradicated the justification of segregation.

Existentialism and Religion

Existentialism had a profound effect on religion. Sartre was an Atheist, although he supported the idea of religion sentimentally. Ultimately, he commented that it was hard (but not impossible) to be an Existentialist if one wasn't an Atheist. After all, what could be more abstract then the concept of God?

The existential rejection of the abstract and insistence upon the self-accountability of man stood in direct opposition to religious ideas about an omnipotent, omniscient deity who governed a deterministic universe. Atheism today, as represented by advocates such as Richard Dawkins, utilizes this argument, rejecting religion as an unlikely abstraction meant to protect adherents from Existential angst.

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence".- Richard Dawkins

Some existentialists tried to reconcile religion by indicating that Existential angst, a product of self-determination, could only be soothed by a leap of faith in God. These Christian Existentialists indicated that God could not be proven by any intellectual means, but rather embraced from despair and loneliness by a leap of faith.

This "Post Modern Christianity" emphasized man's personal relationship with God while rejecting religious doctrines, ceremonies, and traditions. Man's relationship with God could only be understood by each individual and thus the relationship is uniquely personal. This philosophy has become the de facto mainstream religious view held in the West. Adherents define themselves as "spiritual" and profess a belief in God, but do not attend weekly religious ceremonies. They also tolerate other religions as "other paths" to God.

"I do not deny for a moment that the truth of God has reached others through other channels - indeed, I hope and pray that it has. So while I have a special attachment to one mediator, I have respect for them all and have tried to give a fair presentation of each". –John Macquarrie

Existentialism is the Antiscience

At first blush, Existentialism would appear to be a boon for scientific thought in that science rejects superstition and demands empirical evidence for the verification of a hypothesis. Indeed, in the early days, the two were in lockstep. But Science proposes universal truths, which some existentialists object to since Existentialism believes in the preeminence of self over outside "truths". A scientist wasn't just saying F=ma for him or herself. Rather, a scientist was saying F=ma applies to everyone. The existentialist argument against this is presented below by Maurice Merleau-Ponty-

"Science manipulates things and gives up living in them. It makes its own limited models of things; operating upon these indices or variables to effect whatever transformations are permitted by their definition, it comes face to face with the real world only at rare intervals. Science is and always will be that admirably active, ingenious, and bold way of thinking whose fundamental bias is to treat everything as though it were an object-in-general - as though it meant nothing to us and yet was predestined for our own use." – Maurice Merleau-Ponty (L'oeil et l'esprit)

So here we are, and it's been a long journey, but there is the source of the Antiscience, summarized in 1961 by Maurice Merleau-Ponty. There above is the seed from which all the assaults on modern science spring. Look at Maurice Merleau-Ponty's arguments against Science:

1. Limited Models

2. "their definition" and "fundamental bias"

3. Face to Face with the "real world" only at rare intervals

Here's another quote that more succinctly summarizes his philosophy:

"We know not through our intellect but through our experience." –Maurice Merleau-Ponty

Maurice Meleau-Ponty had presented existential arguments that are commonly used by deniers of evolution, global warming, and the scientific establishment itself. These groups, however, are the fringe. Existentialism is a mainstream philosophy. Thus, although the above is used to discredit science directly, it also pervades society and is subtly undermining science in the mainstream.

How many times have you heard people question the value of fundamental research? Have you noticed that technology must be presented at the conclusion of research to justify it to the mainstream? What is technology but the tangible manifestation of the abstraction of science? Science used to be about the advancement of knowledge; however, it is now a widely held belief that advancement in knowledge (which is abstract), without a corresponding advancement in technology (which can be applied to the self), is a failure. What could be a more Existentialist view of science?

How many times have you heard people take pride in their ignorance of abstract subjects? Is it so surprising that in an age of Existentialism when abstraction is vilified, that knowledge or discussion of abstraction is not be considered desirable unless it serves a concrete end (such as making money)?

These seemingly innocent sentiments illustrate the depth to which Existentialist belief pervades our society and reveals itself as the true manifestation of the Antiscience.

Coping with the Antiscience

Scientists have struggled for years with how to handle this undercurrent of Antiscience sentiment. Some scientists attribute the deficiency to a lack of scientific and mathematical training by the general public. Some blame religious extremists or religions in general, since these are the most outspoken and obvious of opponents and conform with their own Existential beliefs. Some scientists suggest that they lack the ability to express themselves well, essentially adopting and accepting the Existentialist argument that scientists are "detached from the real world".

The purpose of this two-part post is to suggest the true reason behind the Antiscience - that we are in the beginning of the end of the Existentialist Age. In this present age, a time when the tenets of the Existentialist Philosophy are fully adopted by the mainstream and tending toward the extremes, the anti-scientific sentiment will only grow. The general public's existential aversion to abstraction and universal truths will grow, no matter what we as scientists try to do to stop it.

Indeed, Science itself is infested with Existential idealisms and prejudices, rotting us from within as we attempt to come to terms without. Too many scientists dream of being the next Einstein, a revolutionary who overturned the scientific "establishment" rather than simply being happy doing their part to promote discovery. Scientists often use of technological progress as scientific justification rather than the more truthful "advancement of knowledge". Scientists accepting the blame for failing to articulate science better to a mathematically illiterate public. The irrational overreliance of the heuristic, Occam 's razor, and its ill advised extension to non-scientific topics. No, scientists are not immune to Existentialism, how could we be?

Conclusion

Existentialism is a wonderful philosophy that promotes values and lessons beneficial for those who take the time to learn it. As with all philosophies, however, it often fails when overextended. Since at least the time of cave wall paintings, and probably even earlier, humans have strived to understand and explain the world around them.

A natural consequence of this ambition was the development of abstraction. To reject this fundamental aspect of human nature is merely to lie to ourselves. We cannot turn our back on abstraction simply because it has caused harm in the past. That ignores all the good that it has brought us as well. We must embrace who we are, regardless of the perceived danger, and accept again that there is nothing shameful or naïve in debating philosophy, or striving for knowledge without need of material gain.

We must recognize cynicism for what it is, the refuge of the fearful, and set aside our existential angst, which comes not from our solitude and burden of existence, but rather from forcing a set of beliefs upon ourselves that are contradictory to our nature. Only when we start to do these things, only when we start to reject the tenets of existentialism in their most extreme forms, only then can we stop the Antiscience.

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Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/08/2010 4:42 PM
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Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/08/2010 5:12 PM
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Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/08/2010 5:17 PM

Actually I think I vaguely recall buying several visions back in the 70s.

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Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/08/2010 7:37 PM

All fakes, as you would have found out by now

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Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/08/2010 9:21 PM

False perhaps, but not fake.

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Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/08/2010 10:12 PM

There is a difference between a hallucination and a vision, and a dream is another thing too.

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Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/08/2010 4:30 PM

Add my ditto to CW

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Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/09/2010 9:01 AM

To Summarize:

You take as self evident that education that is overly abstract and isn't practical isn't worth while. Classic Existentialist point of view.

You next, indicate any use of your money towards an abstract goal (you derisively refer to as "isms") with no immediate practical result is unacceptable. Again, Classic Existentialist point of view.

Next you indicate that people are "wired differences" implying a fundamental biological cause for "individuality" which even you admit has no hard science behind it (called "pseudoscience"). This is not surprising since individuality is a core tenet of Existentialism.

Finally you basically summarize by saying "for those of us concerned with the immediacies of our existence, we don't have time for abstraction" - Pretty clearly Existentialist.

So congrats, you have, in what I can only assume was a cleverly disguised colloquial post, identified clearly some of the unconscious and pervasive Existentialist attitudes that permeate our culture and demonstrated how they manifest themselves. You have truly identified the Antiscience.

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#84
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Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/09/2010 10:53 AM

I can see that it is entirely reasonable for you to draw these conclusions, but they are a little off the mark. I feel that technical education should be considered as training for a profession other than teaching, it should not be taught merely for it's own sake. This would provide a springboard for those who want to practice, to research or to teach.

I wasn't being derisive, or not deliberately derisive by using "isms" I don't have them all at the tips of my fingers so I used a shortcut. I objected to my money being used for an abstract goal without my agreement. The primary object of a life, if it wishes to continue along the evolutionary path, is to procreate and and raise the resulting offspring until they can continue the process, occupations that do not directly support this process must wait until times are sufficiently fat. I learned to perform the design calculations for structures before there were computers and I was amazed and grateful to the professor/researchers who thought up and developed the methods of successive approximations. I have no idea whether they set out to find these methods, or just played until the methods were revealed, but I am glad that the community supported them.

That there are differences in the thought processes of different people is clear. While there is no hard science behind Myers-Briggs, I find it to be very accurate. The ancient Greeks had ballistic charts, put together by experiment. They worked very well despite the fact that Newton hadn't published his theories. I suppose the ballistic charts and Myers-Briggs methods work and that is enough. Come to that, we use Newtonian physics because it works in our part of the universe, not because the physics base is correct but because it is more approachable than Einsteinian physics.

I don't think that we don't have time for abstraction, but as I said above, it must come after one has clothed and fed the babies.

I do enjoy art, music and books, but before I retired, they came only after the bread and butter was on the table.

Is it not a stretch to say that an objection to the abstract being on the front burner is Antiscience, not all science is abstract.

You started me thinking, about why I tend to Existentialism. I suspect my personality type, but I can't help but wonder if being a child, living in London through most of WW2 contributed in some way.

GA by the way, I think you understood what I wrote better than I did.

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Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/09/2010 1:37 PM

As a note regarding my earlier response, I apologize for the term derision, probably a bit too strong . I think maybe I should have said "skeptical", that you're skeptical of the value of "isms".

You Wrote:"I feel that technical education should be considered as training for a profession other than teaching, it should not be taught merely for it's own sake."

I disagree. The job of colleges and universities has always been to provide the fundamental knowledge of a field. It is up to the employer to train an employee to perform the practical responsibilities required of them. It is for this reason that both Education AND Experience are considered in job applicants.

You Wrote:"The primary object of a life, if it wishes to continue along the evolutionary path, is to procreate and and raise the resulting offspring until they can continue the process, occupations that do not directly support this process must wait until times are sufficiently fat."

I agree the primary object of life is to procreate and raise the resulting offspring. I would also say that we strive to give our offspring as much chance as possible to succeed (all animals do). However, if our ancestors had waited till they were "sufficiently fat" to ponder the world around them, we would live in much less comfort than we do today, and surely our progeny would suffer from trying to survive in harsher conditions. So what seems indirect and unimportant in the moment may actually prove essential to the survival of our progeny's progeny. Our success as a species has been our very ability to balance the immediate with the distant future.

Your statement "I learned to perform the design calculations for structures before there were computers and I was amazed and grateful to the professor/researchers who thought up and developed the methods of successive approximations. I have no idea whether they set out to find these methods, or just played until the methods were revealed, but I am glad that the community supported them." seems in agreement with what I just said.

You Wrote:"I don't think that we don't have time for abstraction, but as I said above, it must come after one has clothed and fed the babies."

I should make an important point here I feel I may have failed to make in past posts. I'm not suggesting that everyone become scientists or even be technical. That's not the Antiscience. The Antiscience is a lack of respect for the abstract. One doesn't need to be involved in abstract thought to respect it.

You Wrote "I do enjoy art, music and books, but before I retired, they came only after the bread and butter was on the table"

We all indulge in abstraction much more than our Existentialist values would like us to admit. The truth is, there is an intrinsic characteristic of the human species that draws us to abstractions.

You Wrote:"Is it not a stretch to say that an objection to the abstract being on the front burner is Antiscience, not all science is abstract."

All of the hard sciences, physics, math, chemistry are abstract, since they all must prove their hypothesis mathematically. I presume what your statement means is that you are in favor of science that immediately produces technology. I mention in my post that the expectation of technology from scientific research is a manifestation of the Existentialist belief in the value of things that exist as opposed to abstractions. Technology you can hold, see, and easily value, and as such is accepted and even championed by Existentialists. However, the goal of science has never been technology, but the expansion of human knowledge, which technology is a beneficial side effect.

You Wrote:"You started me thinking, about why I tend to Existentialism. I suspect my personality type, but I can't help but wonder if being a child, living in London through most of WW2 contributed in some way."

I'm sure you were, but I think Existentialism itself sprang into being because of those experiences of Jean Paul Sartre. I'm not sure people realize that Sartre was a nazi prisoner of war for a year before being released. He saw first hand what atrocities the abstraction of "Aryanism" permitted and certainly shaped his extreme anti-abstraction philosophy based on it.

To Summarize:

Philosophers tried to cope with the atrocities of the world wars and came up with Existentialism. The general public, itself disenchanted with war and death and fearing an ideological Soviet Union embraced Existentialism and incorporated it's ideas into their culture (calling it "the culture of the free west"). Years of peace and prosperity reinforced the "correctness" of these ideas and what started as tenet became doctrine.

Since doctrine is taken for granted, it's easy to be unaware of it, even as we over extend it. Thus we wake up one day 60 years later and find the Antiscience. What began as a simple and understandable rejection of the abstraction of atrocity of the world wars evolved into an aversion for abstraction in general. All of us in our own ways have this aversion for abstraction, including myself. As children of the age we live in, there was no way we could avoid it.

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#86
In reply to #85

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/09/2010 2:53 PM

"I agree the primary object of life is to procreate and raise the resulting offspring."

What?! So those of us who chose not to have children have failed at life? I beg to differ. Isn't it profound arrogance to think there IS an object to life? That theory smacks of pre-destiny, fate and all those other concepts for which there is not a sherd of evidence. Which "ism" are you exhibiting now?

I don't mean this as an attack on anyone it is just that my hackles rise whenever someone thinks they have figured out life's primary object. Just because almost every other living thing on the planet reproduces does not make that my goal.

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#87
In reply to #86

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/09/2010 5:05 PM

You Wrote:"What?! So those of us who chose not to have children have failed at life? I beg to differ. That theory smacks of pre-destiny, fate and all those other concepts for which there is not a sherd of evidence. Which "ism" are you exhibiting now?"

I didn't say "not procreating means you failed at life". Basically if you haven't died yet then you're succeeding at life. As for procreation being the primary object of life, I think evolution (or if you need an "ism" Evolutionism) makes it pretty clear what the object of life is, to survive and procreate. All the naturally selected attributes of any animal (or plant, or fungi, or whatever) has been towards the ends of surviving and procreating the species.

This doesn't mean procreation is "the meaning of life". That is a more complicated and philosophical question to which I wouldn't presume to have the answer (including the answer "probably no point" which would be the Existentialist answer).

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#88
In reply to #87

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/09/2010 6:11 PM

Notes from
'The Messiah's Handbook'
from
"Illusions"
by
Richard Bach


Learning is finding out what you already know.
Doing is demonstrating that you know it.
Teaching is reminding others that they know just as well as you.

You are all learners, doers, teachers.


Your only obligation in any lifetime is to be true to yourself.

Being true to anyone else or anything else
is not only impossible, but the mark of a false messiah.


The simplest questions are the most profound.

Where were you born?
Where is your home?
Where are you going?
What are you doing?

Think about these once in awhile, and watch your answers change.


Your friends will know you better in the first minute you meet
than your acquaintances will know you in a thousand years.


There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands.

You seek problems because you need their gifts.


You are led through your lifetime by the inner learning creature,
the playful spiritual being that is your real self.

Don't turn away from possible futures before you're certain
you don't have anything to learn from them.

You're always free to change your mind and choose a different future,
or a different past.


Imagine the universe beautiful and just and perfect.

Then be sure of one thing:

The Is has imagined it quite a bit better than you have.


A cloud does not know why it moves in just such a direction and at such a speed,
it feels an impulsion....this is the place to go now.

But the sky knows the reason and the patterns behind all clouds, and you will know, too, when you lift yourself high enough to see beyond horizons.


You are never given a wish without being given the power to make it true.

You may have to work for it, however.


The world is your exercise-book, the pages on which you do your sums.

It is not reality, although you can express reality there if you wish.

You are also free to write nonsense, or lies, or to tear the pages.


Every person, all the events of your life,

are there because you have drawn them there.

What you choose to do with them is up to you.


The truth you speak has no past and no future.

It is, and that's all it needs to be.


Here is a test to find whether your mission on earth is finished:

If you're alive, it isn't.


Don't be dismayed at good-byes.
A farewell is necessary before you can meet again.

And meeting again, after moments or lifetimes,
is certain for those who are friends.


The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy.

What the catepillar calls the end of the world,
the master calls a butterfly.


Everything above may be wrong!

----------------

He also said;

"I don't want to do business with those who don't make a profit, because they can't give the best service"

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#89
In reply to #88

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/09/2010 7:48 PM

That is one of my favourite books!! thank you.

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#110

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/11/2010 2:26 PM

Wow. I might have to think about this for a while, but it seems like you're on to something. It does appear that existentialism has deeply permeated our society. Even people who have never read a book (let alone one on philosophy) have soaked it up from decades of movies (and other popular entertainments) produced by people who have. I had never really considered the connection between existentialism and the type of religion practiced by so many (Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu...), in which 'knowledge' of the sacred texts doesn't seem to be a serious concern.

I do think the backlash has begun. The popularity of Steven Colber(t)'s ongoing TV satire of the self-satisfied ignoramus, and similar efforts by The Onion seem like steps in the right direction.

I particularly agree with your assertion that much of what we call ethics and morality is rooted in our shared biology, the heritage of our evolution as social critters.

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#113

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/11/2010 11:01 PM

Roger, your conclusion leaves me cold:

"Existentialism is a wonderful philosophy...only when we start to reject the tenets of existentialism...only then can we stop the Antiscience."

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#114

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/12/2010 12:07 AM

My previous posts and your responses left me feeling unsatisfied, with the feeling that we were at cross purposes. I don't think of myself as against science. Thinking it might be semantics, I went off to add to my small understanding of Abstraction, Antiscience and Existentialism.

I didn't find anyone who agrees with your understanding of Antiscience or Existentialism. After re-reading your blog, I know that we were using different but valid meanings of "abstract". Not one of the descriptions of Existentialism said it was antiscience, if they mentioned it at all, it was to say it was irrelevant.

I have learned that nothing can be considered final, but the Theory of Evolution comes close, it is difficult to imagine it being overthrown. I believe it applies at all levels, to living things, to groups of living things and also to ideas, to theories and to organizations. They are all called upon to be tested, to prove their right to exist, even abstract scientific endeavors, none have an absolute right to live. I use the term "scientific endeavors" because I tend to think that we discover "mathematical truths" or theories; we do not create them.

After humans moved from the subsistence of the hunter gatherers to agriculture, at some point they reached the critical mass to allow some specialization. With further growth, they reached the mass needed to allow enough group leisure for an early type of research, the majority would perform slightly more than their share of the normal productive work, so as to pay for someone to research. I imagine that the society would have a wish list, I'm sure that one of the first things they wanted was some way to delineate the seasons. With increasing population mass, there was room for more research, the researchers became teachers, the research became more sophisticated etc., etc..

I think that there is no endeavor that can, or should, be artificially exempt from the tests to see if deserves to continue to evolve.

I am heavily in favor of education and of research, I have no problems with science that uses symbols, we even used one or two in structural design calculations, but I cannot see aimless play with numbers, except as a leisure activity, or supported by some private agency, but it might if enough others disagreed with me.

I hope this is a clearer picture of where I sit, but it seems no closer to your position than before.

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#115
In reply to #114

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/12/2010 6:45 AM

"the Theory of Evolution ...applies at all levels ..... to ideas, to theories ...... are all called upon ....... to prove their right to exist ..... none have an absolute right to live."

Wish I had have thought of that analogy - GA

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#120
In reply to #114

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/13/2010 2:38 PM

You Wrote:"I didn't find anyone who agrees with your understanding of Antiscience or Existentialism. After re-reading your blog, I know that we were using different but valid meanings of "abstract". Not one of the descriptions of Existentialism said it was antiscience, if they mentioned it at all, it was to say it was irrelevant."

I would have been surprised if you did. What I have written in this blog are my own original ideas and those ideas haven't been suggested before as far as I'm aware. I tried to present my understanding in a logical way and believe I achieved that.

You Wrote:"I don't think of myself as against science."

Would it make you feel any better if I said that I don't think you are any more against science than myself?

The Preface of The Antiscience, Part I read:

"The other day I found myself defending the existence of the Large Hadron Collider and fundamental research in general. The effort was discouraging and, more importantly, dispiriting. There is a feeling of persecution in the scientific community, unspoken but unmistakable. There's a creeping fear that the world is going mad and we can't stop it. We work, discover, present, and solve more and more problems. Yet the more we solve, the less credibility we seem to have.

I turned inward to try to understand why this is happening. I can't abide my fellow scientists and their insecure need to justify truth. The value of truth is self-evident to me. Indulging the opinions of the uninformed in some sort of attempt to seem open-minded (as though one can be open-minded about the truth) seems more damaging than helpful. Such actions undermine science, giving authority to opinion at the expense of truth.

After some thought, I came to the conclusion that the current sentiment against pure research is the logical progression of our current philosophical age. We are, I believe, approaching a sort of philosophical extreme, where the tenets of that age's philosophy are taken too far.

This series of posts will trace briefly the progression of philosophy that has led to our current philosophical age. They will attempt to demonstrate the cyclic tendency of Philosophy-Extremism-Rejection-New Philosophy which, I believe, can explain the current sentiment about science in the world.

The purpose of this series of posts is not to solve, but rather to understand what is happening. I dedicate it to my fellow scientists under siege."

What I've presented in this two part series is an explanation of the origin of the Antiscience. The Antiscience isn't religious fundamentalists who deny evolution, or fiscal conservatives who are against funding particle accelerators. The Antiscience isn't global warming deniers or mothers who refuse to vaccinate their children. These are just the visible effects of the Antiscience. But it's so much easier if we blame those groups I just listed right? It's much harder, if upon deeper reflection, we realize that we may be part of the problem as well.

My arguments have been clear. After WWII Existentialism was adopted as a response to the atrocities of the early 20th century. The tenets of existentialism were adopted by society (with some positive side effects such as the desegregation of the south) and slowly became doctrine. Now existential doctrine is being taken to extremes, as occurs in all philosophical ages.

One of the manifestations of this extremism is the growing attacks on the value and integrity of the scientific method (the Antiscience). Another is the overextention of Occam's Razor beyond it's original role as a way to prioritize hypothesis and it's elevation as a determining factor of theories outside of science (which is essentially Occam's Razor as superstition). Another is the deregulation of business to absurd levels showing a faith bordering of superstition on the "free market".

The point is that the Antiscience is something that lives in all of us because we all hold existentialist beliefs drilled into us by the age we live in. As I quoted Henry David Thoreau in the Antiscience Part I:

"Every generation laughs at the old fashions, but follows religiously the new."

You Wrote:"but I cannot see aimless play with numbers, except as a leisure activity, or supported by some private agency"

When you say "aimless play with numbers" I would suggest you actually mean "science where I don't understand the value". If I were to respond to someone making this argument with "you don't have the background to understand" they would probably respond "then explain it to me in a way I can understand". If I respond "that isn't possible because the precision of the arguments require precision only provided by math and technical terms" a most likely response from them would be "that's a cop out". Thus the Antiscience has manifested itself in the subtle superstition that all concepts have a simple explanation, and if such an explanation isn't provided, it is the fault of the communicator, not an intrinsic property of that which is being discussed. This of course is an aversion of abstractions born of existentialist values.

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#121
In reply to #120

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/13/2010 8:28 PM

Ah come on Roger. Nobody cares a hoot for existentialism, though at least it promotes doing something. It leads to nihilism if you focus too much on it.

Where I live it is the nihilists I worry about more than the existentialists.

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#122
In reply to #121

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/13/2010 9:13 PM

GA! Trans

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#123
In reply to #121

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/13/2010 10:46 PM

You Wrote:"Where I live it is the nihilists I worry about more than the existentialists."

Of course you do, existentialism was born as a response to nihilism and other outgrowths of the "Age of Realism" (late 19th and early 20th centuries). By focusing on Nihilism as the threat you're being a good Existentialist.

You Wrote:" It (Existentialism) leads to nihilism if you focus too much on it."

That's incorrect. Realism, from which nihilism springs, is the rejection of idealism. Existentialism, from which for example minimalism springs, is the rejection of abstraction. Realism lead to Nihilism, Existentialism opposed abstractions like Nihilism.

There is a section in the Existentialism entry in Wikipedia that covers this misconception.

It reads: encounters with the absurd, as seen in "Though nihilism and existentialism are distinct philosophies, they are often confused with one another. A primary cause of confusion is that Nietzsche is an important philosopher in both fields, but also the existentialist insistence on the absurd and the inherent meaninglessness of the world. Existentialist philosophers often stress the importance of angst as signifying the absolute lack of any objective ground for action, a move that is often reduced to a moral or an existential nihilism. A pervasive theme in the works of existentialist philosophy, however, is to persist throughCamus 'The Myth of Sisyphus ("One must imagine Sisyphus happy"), and it is only very rarely that existentialist philosophers dismiss morality or one's self-created meaning: Kierkegaard regained a sort of morality in the religious (although he wouldn't himself agree that it was ethical; the religious suspends the ethical), and Sartre's final words in "Being and Nothingness" are "All these questions, which refer us to a pure and not an accessory (or impure) reflection, can find their reply only on the ethical plane. We shall devote to them a future work." Hence, existentialists believe that one can create value and meaning, whilst nihilists will deny this."

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#124
In reply to #123

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/13/2010 10:59 PM

Roger I think Trans was alluding to the 'progression in an individuals attitude' not the chronology of the movements.

And, I have even less idea of what you think Existentialism is when you write such as;

"By focusing on Nihilism as the threat you're being a good Existentialist"

yet quote; Hence, existentialists believe that one can create value and meaning, whilst nihilists will deny this.

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#127
In reply to #124

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/16/2010 10:47 AM

The definition of a Nihilist is "a person who believes human existence has no objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value."

Existentialism came into being as refutation of the abstration that allowed the atrocities of the early 20th century to happen. Sartre wrote:"Evil is the product of the ability of humans to make abstract that which is concrete."

A Nihilist can murder and supposedly shrug it off since "life has no intrinsic value". This is precisely the sort abstract justification existentialism attacks. Feeling a general distrust or even disgust for Nihilism is a very Existentialist reaction.

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#130
In reply to #127

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/16/2010 2:23 PM

I just watched "Hamburger Hill" on the weekend.. and one of the main characters was describing some of the ongoing trauma's in his life (lost love, terrible battles and losses, etc.) and after each one he stated "It don't mean nuthin'."

It would seem to that it is some sort of survival instinct, allowing the person to continue to function in the face of horrific trauma. Presumably, such nihilism would change later, when the person finds a more effective method/understanding in dealing with the trauma.

chris

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#125
In reply to #123

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/14/2010 12:26 PM

My wife is more formally educated than I am, so I checked with her. I appreciate prompts for some bits of reason to converse with my wife over issues less mundane than money or cat food.

The link to the existentialist wikipedia article conflicts with her understanding of the spawns of the philosophies. However she says that even if the chronologies are correct nihilism was so obscure prior to existentialism as to about make moot the chronology.

There is something Faulkner said about how the past isn't even past yet that rose to my mind.

And it is Faulkner who makes clear that living according to a flawed set of ideals is the great tragedy of the individual life. Leastways that is what I get from the poem, Absolam Absolam. In A Fable there is much we might view as existentialism and the Jesus character is similar to the lucky man, Pierre, in War and Peace.

Let us look at what philosophy spawns as opposed to what has come from Science Fiction. Existentialism exists more as a literary movement, than as some unique philosophy.

Out of science fiction comes L. Ron Hubbard, and Dianetics and Scientology, which is apparently a theology. This buttresses my thesis that philosophy always knocks at the door of theology.

The event of Buddhism coming to be viewed as more consistent with modern physics, along with its commonality of tone with both stoics and existentialism would imply that we know a few things about the experience of life.

Course like most religions there is some salt of superstition to make it palatable. (Reincarnation).

I may well be a good existentialist for rejecting nihilism. What I do accept is what as a philosophy may well be too simple for any name.

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#128
In reply to #125

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/16/2010 11:06 AM

You Wrote:"nihilism was so obscure prior to existentialism as to about make moot the chronology"

That's incorrect. In fact nihilism wasn't obscure at all in the early 20th century as can be seen by Nietzsche's writing on the subject, not because he himself was a nihilist (not completely) but because it was a big enough topic that he felt it had to be addressed:

http://atheism.about.com/od/nihilismnihilists/a/nietzsche.htm

You Wrote:"Existentialism exists more as a literary movement, than as some unique philosophy."

That's not correct. Here is the first sentence of the Existentialism entry on wikipedia:

Existentialism is a term applied to the work of a number of 19th and 20th-centruy philosophers who, despite profound doctrinal differences, generally held that the focus of philosophical thought... (that intro sounds to me like it's considered a unique philosophy)

Here's an alternate opening sentence on Existentialism found here:

Existentialism in the broader sense is a 20th century philosophy that is centered upon the analysis of existence and of the way humans find themselves existing in the world.

You Wrote:"What I do accept is what as a philosophy may well be too simple for any name."

Of course you would say that, after all, as Guil said in Rosencrantz & Guilderstein are Dead:

"...at least, let us hope so. Because if we happened, just happened to discover, or even suspect, that our spontaneity was part of their order, we'd know that we were lost" -Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead (1966)

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#119

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/12/2010 9:44 PM

Since this discussion has not been closed down, and arguments have pivoted mostly on key words, which may have different meanings among us we may summate by fastening down what abstraction means. We may also summate what exactly is meant by mathematics.

I suspect you are not talking about arithmetic. Arithmetic does not seem very abstract to me. It does not really bother me that Pi goes on either.

Spoke with a Philosophy Professor today working at Elon University. Apparently he likes to give lectures wearing costumes, and the store I'm working at sells and rents costumes.

I pretty much shortly summated my argument that Antiscience is more powerfully pushed by religious fundamentalism than existentialism. Doing things without reason was his definition of existentialism. He agreed Sartre was sort of a jerk off, and that Camus was a better writer.

"Meantime back at the ranch with Dale and Roy..." What is the philosophy that is worth anything at all if it has no reason and hurts those that live their lives in service to it? Least Voltaire was funny. I haven't read Sophocles but my wife says he is the father of Cynicism. Either way whatever philosophy you believe in, if it can't be funny, who needs it?

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#126

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/14/2010 9:38 PM

When Part I first came out, I wondered: "The Antiscience"; is there only one?

There seem to be several sources. One is creationist objection to evolution; another might be commercial objection to global warming theory; a third could be anti-intellectualism in general. Parapsychology and other New Age stuff might not be antiscienctific so much as unscientific. Or laziness. Etc.

Any effort to counteract antiscience might be taken by any of these groups as picking on them in particular. Thus, finding an umbrella philosophical disposition such as existentialism helps to deal with antiscience in a general way, rather than appearing to single out some group for criticism. A good objective, if workable.

Although existentialism is a reasonable common denominator, it strikes me as a bit vague. It doesn't suggest to me much of a strategy for addressing antiscientific sentiment, but something may come forth as the discussion continues.

I have some ideas for further posting, focused mostly on how to improve education. I haven't tied them too much to existentialism, which for me seems more of a background matter.

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#129
In reply to #126

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/16/2010 11:35 AM

Actually, I think Existentialism as the source of the Antiscience is quite clear. I think it's easy to see why, after genocides, wars and purges justified using "Aryanism", or "Fascism" or "Shintoism" or "Communism", a philosophical movement would be created opposing abstraction. Basically a bunch of philosophers said "You can't just say "I'm absolved by this "ism" or I was just following orders". Existentialism brought accountability back to the individual.

And it was successful in changing how the west (and eventually the east) viewed the world. However all philosophical movements are taken too far. So naturally the anti-abstraction is being taken too far.

Sometimes things are easier to understand when they are more distant in history, so consider this. Towards the end of the Enlightenment, all of the intellectuals were in agreement that the main threats to humanity were the pope and the monarchy. In the end, the largest threat, the threat that manifested itself in the French Revolution, was over-extension of reason (reason over and beyond morality). This was a threat none of the enlightenment thinkers suspected until it happened. Even the great Thomas Jefferson at the time of the French Revolution misguidedly wrote:

"We are not to expect to be translated from despotism to liberty in a feather-bed."

Meaning that violence on the path of liberty was justified. Remember, the leaders of the "Reign of Terror" were crying "liberty" and were neither monarchists nor papists. It wasn't until after Napoleon was finally stopped that people said "hey, maybe we took all that liberty stuff too far".

My point is we like to point to evolution deniers, etc. because it's easy. The truth is these people are the fringe. The real danger is the prejudices and misconceptions the so called "mainstream" holds. This is where the Antiscience truly comes from. From people not understanding why Occam's Razor can't be used to prove or eliminate theories. (Phrased colloquially as "what's more likely....." as a way to prove their point). That most people actually believe scientists are "bad communicators" to the point where even some scientists believe it. The widely held belief that the success of science is measured by the technology it produces, a ridiculously short sighted sentiment that no one would take seriously in any age except our own. These things are the true Antiscience, and they originate from our existentialist worldview.

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#131
In reply to #129

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/16/2010 2:40 PM

History is a huge long story of how people have 'strayed from the true path'. From the times of the ancient gods to the present, no matter what the authoritative policies of the day were, people were always found straying...

You wrote: "The real danger is the prejudices and misconceptions the so called "mainstream" holds." and I suggest that the problem is not that the notions held by people are going to steer their path where it leads them, and that 'all the people' will never follow a single path described by any authority (of which science is one)

never.

This is human nature. they do their own thing.

Science, as potent as it is, must compete in the world of ideas and memes. (always has, always will)

In order to compete, improved communications is essential. (aka marketing and image manipulation) To some in the science world, this is distasteful, but to others, it is obvious. I see some pop. science shows on tv, and I think they do a great job of making science more interesting. You may not think notions such as 'the Secret' are valid... but in this case, the idea that 'what you focus on is what you get' is relevant. If you continue to focus on the decline of science in the mainstream mind, then it will continue. Science needs to put more money into marketing (not distortion or junk science) the value of Science.. As a result, more money will be invested in science.. upwards spiral.

I assume that the ultimate purpose of your blog is to help change the decline in perception and funding of science? What philosophical approach originally made it grow?

Chris

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#132
In reply to #131

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/17/2010 11:21 AM

Hi Chrisg288,

You Wrote:"I assume that the ultimate purpose of your blog is to help change the decline in perception and funding of science? What philosophical approach originally made it grow?"

I the preface of The Antiscience Part I I wrote:"The purpose of this series of posts is not to solve, but rather to understand what is happening....". so no, the ultimate purpose of my blog isn't to help change the decline in perception. The purpose of this blog is to get the people involved (scientists, engineers, educators, etc.) to stop reacting and think about this problem logically. I'm trying to get people to understand the problem. Solving the problem seems way to ambitious at this point.

You Wrote:"In order to compete, improved communications is essential. (aka marketing and image manipulation)"

I don't agree the way for the US to regain our preeminence in science in the world is to develop a marketing campaign. I mean, take a step back from that last statement....has this really what we've become as a country?

You Wrote:"I suggest that the problem is not that the notions held by people are going to steer their path where it leads them, and that 'all the people' will never follow a single path described by any authority (of which science is one)"

I had never advocated at any point in my blog or any of my responses that people all follow "a single path". The Antiscience isn't a rejection of science trying to impose some sort of preeminence over everything else, the Antiscience a movement to try impose popular cultural values (derived from existentialism) on Science, sometime even by the scientists themselves.

The Antiscience is the Mainstream not the Fringe

Here are some common complaints against science by what is for the most part an generally sophisticated and intelligent public:

"I don't want to learn math, explain it in a way that is simpler" - That's not science, science uses math. What you're asking for is "Pseudoscience".

"Motivate me to like science" - Scientists aren't entertainers, believe me, if we were we'd make a lot more money.

"We shouldn't be investing in Junk Science" - How in the world can people who can't solve basic calculus or statistical problems presume to know the difference between "junk" and good science?

These demands, that are so commonly made on scientists by the general public, come from their ingrained existentialist values that I've described throughout blog. In any other age they'd be laughed off as inconsistent and ill-conceived, but in our current age they resonate with our Anti-abstraction values that value simplicity. The Antiscience lives in all of us, it comes from our current existentialist values that we mistake for inalterable fact.

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#133
In reply to #132

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/17/2010 11:46 AM

You wrote.

"I don't want to learn math, explain it in a way that is simpler" - That's not science, science uses math. What you're asking for is "Pseudoscience".

"Motivate me to like science" - Scientists aren't entertainers, believe me, if we were we'd make a lot more money.

"We shouldn't be investing in Junk Science" - How in the world can people who can't solve basic calculus or statistical problems presume to know the difference between "junk" and good science?

I think you have summed up the jist of the problem we face exceptionally well with these three points. The first two need no comment as I see them as self evident. I would like to jump in on the third point with what i think is a very relevent example.

Here in Canada we have national health care, but when I see that my tax dollars are going to pay for treatments such as accupuncture, homeopathy and several other methods with absolutely zero evidence that they work, my blood boils. Currently there is a hue and cry to provide the new Zamboni treatment for MS because there is "evidence" on You Tube(!!!) that it works. So far the clinical trials conducted however have been confusing at best and down right negative at worst. This problem is a result of people with no expertise in a field making major decisions in that field. Which brings me to my point. We live in a democracy, where often is quoted "one man, one vote and we are all equal, your vote is as important as mine etc etc etc" I feel that in todays complex world that is no longer true. There should be a test to qualify someone to vote on a topic. I don't pretend to know whether we should raise or lower the national bank's prime lending rate, I just don't have the specialized knowledge required in that field.

When we let politicians, (mainly lawyers) make all the decisions we end up with .... well ...what we have now. What would make a big difference I think, would be if doctors, scientists, engineers and other specialists ran for office and it would be incredible if we the people actually elected them. Don't you love it when the party in power has what we up here call a "cabinet schuffle"? You know, where the guy who last week was making the decisions about finance is now making the decisions about health care. And the gal who was handeling Indian affairs is now in charge of transportation? Its ridiculous.

Much has been said here about the "general populous", maybe we should start the changes at the top and work down.

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#136
In reply to #133

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/17/2010 8:50 PM

Was reviewing the thread thinking of Wittgenstein and stopped here to interject. As a politician and philosopher I depend around here for help in mathematics, whereas I do know how to add and subtract.

My wife says Wittgenstein is Post Existentialist, or product of existentialism. The work I did on popwars.com that can be found in internet archives as Transcendia War Commentary does have some similarity to a book my wife showed me at the time, of Wittgenstein.

I moved on and tightened up.

"Governments use arithmetic, and scientists use math." (me) just made it up.

As thermodynamics were applied to economics, shall we apply Vectors to Political Science?

Some scientists are more entertaining than others. Mr. Wizard, and Einstein, and Professor Irwin Corey, come to mind. - Einstein sticking his tongue out, is entertaining.

You do get a feel for what is junk and not if you have critical thinking skills and consider the sources for the information.

In the course of my recovery from a broken hip due to a long fall and a bad landing on concrete I did experience accupuncture, and found it helpful. I've long required Chiropractic care. We are somewhat mechanical and you are not likely to function well when bent up.

At the local level of US politics mob democracy is more prevalent. By the time you get to Federal and even State politics it is what? -a Republic? That old Electoral College thing.

Far as tests, well they were abused in the South to prevent Blacks from being able to vote. I do live in a State where there occurred the only US coup de tat. (Wilmington, NC). Personally I myself in a voting booth only vote for whom or what I know and feel about, and never vote a straight ticket.

The world and all is and will ever be simple, and complex too.

I'm working on a bank of my own to lend out of.

Might just say Fk,it, and just give out Grants.

Everybody seems to hate lawyers till they need them. Over the years I have changed my policy so that what I do when I am depressed is call an attorney, as opposed to a psychiatrist. Further it is never too soon to get an accountant.

In the discussion of a Better Government, Garthh and I and others ended up struggling with how to make Technocrats most perfect. I am at the point of codifying for Transcendia, Technocracy as the right ambition of a Bureaucrat for some must sit at the office desk, and it is good to have a status change out of Meritocratic work as a goal.

My view is to change what is flawed as much possible without throwing out what is correct.

Process can save you when people fail.

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#137
In reply to #136

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/17/2010 9:40 PM

I was told that chiropractors have more training than doctors (two more years of training), especially in the mechanics, nerves, etc. (but it was a chiropractor that told me.)

chris

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#140
In reply to #133

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/18/2010 10:17 AM

I don't believe scientists are any better at running a government than anyone else. Scientists are good at science. I also don't think scientists are better voters than anyone else. People vote for their own interests and that's how it's supposed to be.

When I say "The Antiscience" is in all of us, I really mean each and every one of us (at least in the West). We all hold existentialist prejudices we are oblivious to, not just the fringe or the general public.

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#134
In reply to #132

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/17/2010 4:41 PM

(you wrote) "to stop reacting and think about this problem logically. I'm trying to get people to understand the problem. Solving the problem seems way to ambitious at this point."

I wouldn't think it's that ambitious - many scientists have.

Perhaps start with collecting input - with an open mind - rather than rejecting that which does not fit your preconceived personal model - and/or just taking a debating position on anything you feel has some 'point score' potential.

E.g. Above;

Chris Wrote; "In order to compete, improved communications is essential. (aka marketing and image manipulation)"

You Wrote: I don't agree the way for the US to regain our preeminence in science in the world is to develop a marketing campaign. I mean, take a step back from that last statement....has this really what we've become as a country?

You did the same with Trans and Nihilism - missed the 'non-fitting' point and fell to an irrelevant in context debating point "win".

There is a list - "throughout blog"

However the bottom line in engineering (and scientific enquiry) is "solving"

But, as you've re-stated, in the lead quote above, this is what amounts to a debating demonstration; admittedly clever and entertainingly mercurial, but with no underlying intention of solving.

So there is indeed a great deal of truth in what You Wrote; In any other age they'd be laughed off as inconsistent and ill-conceived, but in our current age they resonate with our Anti-abstraction values that value simplicity. The Antiscience lives in all of us, it comes from our current existentialist values that we mistake for inalterable fact.

But perhaps not a truth you would recognize as such

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#135
In reply to #132

Re: The Antiscience – Part II

11/17/2010 6:32 PM

& the tower gets higher

Elitism is far more real than any philosophy which is no more than an abstraction attempting to describe the world around us, a theory, not a reality in it's own right

I suppose you can cite some examples of scientific advances that happened without funding or other allocations of resources?

Submitting a paper to a peer reviewed journal, has some elements of self promotion [marketing]

Marketing has always been part of the science

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#138
In reply to #132

Re: Post Existentialist Wittgenstein

11/17/2010 10:03 PM

"Philosophy is not a theory but an activity" is a quote I found from Wittgenstein in the book 20th Century Culture edited by Alan Bullock & R.B. Woodings. Subtitle - A Biographical Companion, copyright 1983. page 830 and 831.

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#139
In reply to #138

Re: Post Existentialist Wittgenstein

11/18/2010 9:53 AM

You Wrote:"Philosophy is not a theory but an activity"

I couldn't agree more. Existentialism is how we live. I 'm sure most people couldn't tell you who Sartre is much less correctly define existentialism, but that's irrelevant. The point is our culture is full of existentialist doctrines and people, immersed in the culture they are born into, reinforce those existentialist doctrines without being aware they are doing it. People act in the way they were taught to act, which in our day and age is in a way that is influenced heavily by existentialism.

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#141
In reply to #139

Re: Post Existentialist Wittgenstein

11/18/2010 8:33 PM

I was only quoting Wittgenstein who my wife said I reminded her of at a certain point in my writings. She also said Wittgenstein was Post Existentialist. If I have created a cannon it is Transcendian. Before CR4 there was popwars.com where I posted quite a tome.

Personally I think you are ascribing too much to existentialism. Far as the culture I lump what you are postulating as all to existentialism into what I call the mental landscape. In the academic world I can call on some for discussion of your thesis. So far the philosophy professor from Elon I spoke with agreed that theology was of more influence. I am sad that theocratic influences are so counter to common sense saying I'll think more of the Vatican when they put money up for terraforming Venus and Mars if they want to continue some of their policies.

I've confronted ethical God power in relation to life on Mars saying it would be sort of like being sent to hell if you were sent to Mars never to really return much, and could never go outside naked.

May as well make some people suited for life on Mars even if we are capable of making much faster shape ships.

Last thing I got out of Existentialism was that it didn't matter whether or not there was a God. What was good to do was good to do.

Sam Harris in The End of Faith makes a nice point I have long ascribed to, as this life is worth something as a miracle without an afterlife. It is not like we do not have spirits while here. In a poem I speak of how a spirit and a soul are really the same thing, except that a soul is in a physical self conscious body.

There are some things I have to imagine just like anyone else.

I am tempted to see a Vectors equation applied to a specific historical event as a mathematics experiment possible to apply to Political Science.

Progress through fun!

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