Are You Ready to Retire Windows XP?

I have programs that will not run on anything but XP. So the answer is no. I will not upgrade because there is nothing but added costs and no benefit to do it.

A friend of mine is a mechanic and has a similar problem. Most of the software he needs to use on the vehicles doesn't work with newer versions of Windows. He even has trouble finding printers because the computers he has don't have USB ports!

I am getting to the point where I am very wary of "new" since it usually brings with it its own box of demons. For the purpose of our engineering PCs I have no interest in fixing what already works and works in an expected fashion each time.

I have a computer (XP 32bit) running a software/hardware package that will not run on newer operating systems and cannot be run in 64bit environments. Everyone always says to try running it in 'Compatibility Mode', but the installer doesn't recognize the newer Windows version and aborts. If windows could make a smarter 'Compatiblity Mode', one that would report itself to the installer as a previous version, it might make a difference.

I've worked with Vista, and Windows 7 on my daughters laptop.

They can have my XP when they pry it out of my cold dead hands.

"Updates Available for your computer...."
No thanks, they will only screw up my system. (Windows 7)
I think Microsoft must be blissfully unaware of the antipathy towards their products.
I was trying to use Microsoft Media Player to burn some CDs the other day...
Yes it all looks compatible with other Microsoft stuff, but it simply isn't... I couldn't just drag some music files from my desktop into a playlist, they had to be in an 'Album' or folder as it used to be called, but that would be too consistent. It wouldn't let me create a new album in the same way as you create a new folder...so I endup working in Windows Explorer (one of the few things that actually works with some consistancy)... I created a folder under the music directory, named it, draged in the music..
Back to Media Player..
Yes it works but it calls it an 'untitled album'.. what a crock of shite... It's not a damn album it's a folder with a name.
Consistent? Compatible? Interchangeable? Integrated? My ar$e.
Oh and is there a button to open the Cd draw if it doesn't recognise the disk as writeable? Nope, gotta find the device in explorer and right click...blah...blah...someone shoot me for pities sake.
I wouldn't have touched it with a bargepole but Mrs Cat wanted it done for her choir.

If I'm working on stuff I have it on my desk... it's accessible, surely that's the whole point of a desktop... oh no you must comply and put files where Microsoft expect you to put 'em else they don't work.
Personally I want a 'floor' as well as a 'desktop' on my PC. And scribble space.. maybe some feathers on a string and silver paper balls too
Del
(now look what you've done, I've dropped into rant mode, and screwed my brevquot)

You need Ahampoo Audio Center, its not expensive...the latest version is on sale here with a special offer:-

http://www.ashampoo.com/uk/gbp/pin/0230/Multimedia_Software/Ashampoo-Music-Studio-3

...for less the 8 pounds sterling. Its now called the music studio-3......

It converts most music files that I use, reads Music CDs and can burn Music CD format or MP3, if converting to MP3, it goes online, finds the correct names of the pieces and names them....it just works, I have had it on my PCs for about 10 years or so.......

All Ashampoo products allow you to store the passwords/serials online at ashampoo in your own "safe", so if you have a computer crash and cannot find the password, its safe and easy to find online, I do not know of any other company that does that......

Usual Disclaimer.

I don't like there other CD/DVD burning software, though its often available for free.....their YouTube video down loader is fantastic and free, Ashampoo Clipfinder HD.....I use it regularly......

I would not even start to try and use Windows for such things, as you say, total lack of consistency.......forget Windows. My next system will be Linux......probably Ubuntu.

I am sure there are other good programs around that do much the same thing with music, but that good and that cheap, I seriously doubt that....

Best of luck and contact me offline if I can help further....

For this sort of application, you should really consider setting your machine up as a dual boot system with a Linux distro. You can access the files on your Windows sector from Linux, drag and drop into Brasero (or whatever of a multitude of different burners) and burn the CD/DVD with no heartburn.

DANGER: Most people, once they start using Linux for one or two operations eventually find that Linux does almost everything better (except CAD and gaming). If you like Windows 7- FORGET Linux.

I don't really get any "support" from windows except to patch vulnerability flaws. I already cannot get the latest version of IE for my platform. I have always had issues finding drivers for various machines. Don't even get me started on SATA DVD burners and their 32-bit driver issues.

All in all, though, still very much like my XP and not too keen on 7. I'll be here for a while (with a ghost image in my pocket, just in case).

It's funny that whenever a Windows discussion comes around all of the Linux "worms" come out of the woodwork.

Linux will not run my old windows applications and I don't want to have to upgrade/buy/compile all of the crap I would have to just to get to a Linux/HPux/Solaris environment.

The world is much more than web surfing and email. Real world applications need real world solutions...and I shouldn't need to be a programmer or computer scientist to do so...even if I am.

Garth alone for example has brought some good ideas and solutions for you, why do you sound so pissed off with us all?Several other peoples ideas looked good too.....

"..... and I shouldn't need to be a programmer or computer scientist to do so...even if I am."

What have we done wrong to make you be so unfriendly?

If you are SOOOOO clever with computers, why did you bother us in the first place???

You don't need to be anonymous to use sarcastic and inflammatory language. Be a man/woman and speak for yourself.

The OP was talking about Windows. My point is that whenever someone dares to (gasp!) say they don't use the latest "you wouldn't understand because you're not cool" Linux version and you're basically an idiot because you still use Windows...it's just the same old typical thread hijacking...typical.

I don't need to bother with you at all...but

The average user (think...your mom) shoudn't have to download a new solution for an open source driver for her new scanner for whatever version of Linux/Unix she is running. That's the beauty of Windows...it's pretty much plug and play. She doesn't need to program/recompile code to scan pictures of her kids in diapers. Now, your mom may actually be a computer scientist, so picture some other typical user who isn't. That was my point in the last line of my post...with my real user name.

She doesn't need to grind semolina to make spaghetti either.

This is an Engineers board after all.

Speaking for the worms

this blog is engineering management

many managers don't do more than surf & email

as far as pictures are concerned grandma should use Picasa for her pictures, much easier to use no matter what OS

there are a couple of real drawbacks to using most Linux OS

1) short releasecycles [ the next Unbuntu long term stable will be supported for 5 years, the beta's come out every 6 months]

2) no support for quickbooks or autodesk, with their proprietary file formats, there are alternatives, but you need what you need

the gaming point may be valid, if gaming is important, for the price buy a playstation or whatever dedicated hardware, which will out preform most any computer

from my experience HP printers are plug n play on linux systems, certainly none of the uninstall/reinstall drill hoops common on windows

while you can set up a linux box, that is easy to use & stable, the user base is people who wants to tinker around or like me is too cheap to buy new hardware every few years. I'm on a laptop that came pre-installed with vista, when the HDD quit I wasn't going cough up $20 for an OS I already paid for once. I have a pc, which is cobbed together from parts, I use for transferring LP's to MP3's & to print

Cuba, come from the dark side, come to the light . There are lots of forums and blogs on installing Linux - you don't have to be a programmer to do it (which it appears that you are not, otherwise you would be running Linux already). You don't have to compile anything to run older Windows programs on Linux, simply install an app like Virtual Box with XP and you can install any (so far) Windows based program and run it normally. I have and do a lot more then surf the web and read email, construction and engineering work I do on my laptop. Oh, BTW, I am not a worm last time I checked .

That's my whole point (or a big chunk of it). The average user shouldn't need to visit a forum just to learn how to compile/install the OS. Simply install another app that is geared to each specific older app I want to run? "Simply", eh? An entirely separate app for the different app...that's two apps to install only after a complete reload of my PC with the "latest" open source nightmare. That gets tiresome.

I am a programmer...regardless of your lame job assessment. That just reeks of the typical "whatever" uber-slacker hipster bullsh!t. My work computers use Linux, not my home PCs. My kids may want to load a game without having to develop a new driver that ports to my display for the desired resolution without being blinded by screen flicker and blooming.

I have to sit in a subterranean windowless building all day and live and breath all sorts of electronica. I don't take that home with me. The last thing I want to do when I get home is having to troubleshoot my computer because it has an issue. I work on that type of stuff all day long. When I go home I like to breathe fresh air and get a little dirt on my hands...not sit on my ass and work on more computers.

The worm thing was just a melodramatic metaphor.

In support of your statement about kids and grandma - I'd recommend Apple.

I've run Windows, Linux, and Apple

Linux was fun but I take your comments on busman's holiday and once I started spending extended periods on a machine I quit playing with code.

I have a laptop I do things like email - I keep nothing I can't lose on it and buy cheap disposable Windows machines.

But I have never seen the speed with which 'newbies' master Apple products on Apple machines.

Funny but accurate!!!

Speaking of time, just yesterday I decided to upgrade one of my versions of CAELinux to the latest version. Not being willing to replace my "working" version without full evaluation of the new operating system, I installed it as a dual boot system, replacing my other "experimental" sector on the hard drive. CAELinux is an Ubuntu-based package, using the Ubuntu installer. Load the DVD into the drawer, reboot to the DVD, click, select language, click, select time zone, click, select keyboard layout, click, tell the installer which sector of the hard drive to use, which to leave alone, click, confirm change, click, done. Well, about 20 minutes or so. Reboot from hard drive, and we are ready to go. All hardware (scanner, printer, modem card, monitor, web cam, card reader) works, no need to surf around the web or dig through the pile of old install discs to find appropriate drivers. The last time I installed Windows from scratch (XP), it took three days, a couple of phone calls to Microsoft for authenticating the software , then back to the computer to confirm the authentication, then more time trying to figure out which drivers I needed to add from where to get everything to work...And I had to start from a completely clean hard drive, which means PRIOR to installing XP, I had to go through a rather time-consuming process of backing up all my important stuff while being careful not to "back up" files contaminated by the root kit that necessitated the re-install in the first place. No way to install a newer version of Windows without wiping everything on the computer.

Full disclaimer- my hard drive was already formated for two versions of Linux, so I did not have to give much thought to that part of the process. Also, it took me about 4 hours to download the *.iso image file and burn the DVD- as compared to about 4 hours of navigating through traffic and visiting multiple computer stores before finding someone with a valid copy of XP to purchase (about $80.00- about 4 years ago). Note that during the four hours spent downloading the *.iso image, I was able to continue working on the computer, downloading in the background (although my Internet connection was noticeably slower during the period). Also, once the system was installed and up and running, all hardware tested, I had another hour or so of downloading updates (90 files).

Update procedure: click, opens Update Manager, click, enter password,check system status to get a list of what will be updated, click, done (I could have edited the list and selected only those files I wanted updates for, had I been pressed for time).

Now, my new system is not "fully operational"- I still have some important third party apps I will be adding- but I don't have to do that right now, because I still have my working version on the computer. Meanwhile, I can use the new install to evaluate new versions of my favorite CFD, FEA and math apps, all of which came ready to use with the CAELinux package.

Now, how many of you Windows or Apple users have tried installing an operating system from scratch?

How long did it take?

If installing XP from scratch, which I do do occasionally, 2 to 3 days.

I usually have a mirror image that takes 2 hours to copy back.......and a good registry cleaner to keep the registry compact and clean.....Occasional hard disk defrag as well.....

I assume that last question was supposed to be a barb of some kind? Tis but to laugh.

Using an MBSA pre-configured disk...about one hour from CD to complete install. boom...done. The hardest part would be getting off of my ass and getting some ice for my Coke to watch the installation complete.

The reboot took some time, of course. That is a fully operational system.

Figuring out how to do this took about 25+ years of experience. I have the same amount of experience with Unix based systems and still prefer Windows due to it's ease.

If you have a valid copy of Windows and an internet connection you don't need to call to validate. Of course after 2013 the telephone method will no longer work.

Pete-

I am running legacy Windows applications (mostly related to test and measurement equipment) that stopped working in Windows XP-

by running Windows 98SE (fully licensed copy) in a virtualized on my Linux installation. Even if I wanted to run this old software on a Windows (or Apple) machine it would not be possible.

Additionally, I run some very sophisticated FEA and CFD software- some of it cutting edge and technically superior to some of the commercial applications costing thousands of dollars. In other words, I use my Linux system for considerably more than just "web surfing or email". I find it interesting that some studies that compare computation speed for various mathematical suites (Matlab, Scilab, Octave, Sage, R, etc.) consider it unfair to compare speed of computation between programs running under Windows and those running under *.Nix systems, because the *.Nix systems are acknowledged as being far too superior for scientific calculations. If you would like more information about what I am doing with Open Source software, I suggest you explore some of the blog entries I have contributed here on CR4. I especially call your attentlon to my discussions of the CAELinux distro- based on Ubuntu, but put together specifically for scientific and engineering applications. I challenge you to suggest a similar packaging strategy being pursued by ANY commercial software developer.

I will admit that for traditional CAD, I dip down into Windows on occasion (using my old Win 98SE software that was still functional in Win XP, but nothing since). Most of my 3D CAD work, however, I do in Linux- much faster and the interfaces are far easier to navigate. Plus, I can do some fancy customizations when I am not happy with the "off-the-shelf" packages. I will also admit that I am not a gamer- if you want to play computer games, Windows is your best option.

Within the local computer users community, spanning most of the local universities, as well as the local Smithsonian Research group, the Linux users are all highly educated, and interested in using computers for far more than "web surfing and email"- and for far more sophisticated applications than are easily accomplished on your typical Windows installation. And, if these are the people you prefer to consider "Linux worms", then I will proudly accept the compliment...

Everything on my XP computer works just fine, including Autocad©. I wish they would leave well enough alone. "Upgrading" can only cost me money with no improvement in performance. I know Microsoft has to introduce new products in order to make money, but they also have to respect the wishes of the public. Maybe a second party software developer can take over the XP platform and continue providing support.

I finally had to bite the bullet and upgrade. I blew out Outlook's 2GB limit for the umpteenth time, and nobody could fix it. So now I have four computers, three on Windows 7 and the crippled PC still running XP. I still use the XP machine for word processing, because I absolutely hate Word 2010. My advice? Keep your XP machine for as long as you can. The new stuff sucks.

XP is more or less stable and quite secure by now. Most applications, especially engineering ones, don't need most of Windows' features which are geared toward family entertainment. Perhaps a cut-down OS that leaves out the multi-media gimmicks would be worth pursuing?

A while ago, just for fun, I re-installed W 3.11 on an old PC. It took off and ran MUCH faster without all that overhead!

Now Linux is a viable option for many applications and definitely worth a look. I have 'played' with Ubuntu with some satisfaction. Much software is now available in Linux versions.

At the prodding of my nephew I removed windows off of my laptop and have been running Linux Ubuntu for a good portion of a year. I also stopped using IE several years ago and am glad I did - it is not anywhere near as buggy as IE, and less virus issues as well. Ubuntu took a little getting used to but for programs that require XP I use a virtual XP setup inside Ubuntu and if something happens or gets royally screwed, I just reset and it is good to go. The only down side I have found so far is not having 3D acceleration in the virtual setup. The other advantage to Ubuntu is the free software including Office-like programs (docs, spreadsheets and databases) that will normally open any Office file. You can create and save in Office format or PDFs as well. And Ubuntu has new upgrade releases twice a year if you so choose. The other advantage (aside for not having to run anti-virus software) is the memory footprint is much smaller then windows.

At the prodding of my nephew.
LOL !
Must be a nephew thing! I too have an IT whizzkid nephew who is always trying to get me to change over to Linux.
I expect I'll actually get round to it one day.
Del

Yeah, LOL! He is an IT manager at the company that made Coraline (sp?) and he still codes (and hates windows). Maybe we should start a support group when you decide to take the leap.

J

For engineering applications, rather than raw Ubuntu, have a look at CAELinux, which is built on Ubuntu 10.04.

And you can still load Windows XP on your Linux machine in VirtualBox (and other virtual machines- I am just most familiar with VirtualBox, although Oracle seems to be playing strange games with it lately).

Ubuntu seems to be going the same way as Windows with their newer releases- breaking a working system for the sake of "new and improved". Improved compared to what and for whom?

I'm still running Windows 95... The dogs bark, but the caravan rolls on.

I'm a Linux user, but frequently I work on Windows too. My experience so far is that whenever I had to deal with a new Windows version, I usually felt like a computer illiterate. It's always the good things that seem to change, while the bad ones become worse. The most traumatic experience was with Vista, which allow me to say, wasn't intended to be used by humans, let alone that I doubt it was designed by humans either. Not only as far as user friendliness is considered, but also the seemingly waste of resources.

I never tried Windows 7, although I read reviews, so I shouldn't be so biased. Nevertheless, given the experience with Vista and the fact that Windows 7 don't claim to offer any spectacular improvement or technological breakthrough, I have to stick to the MS motto: "What works is obsolete" and so decide to stay with something "obsolete" what works.

Does anybody know if windows virtual machine works with older programs?

I know that compatability mode doesn't.

I'm running Win 7 and have a scanner still sitting on my desk that I can't throw away, that worked in xp.

The only problem is that no driver has been written for win 7, and I'm scared to download virtual machine to try it.

A possible way to go is to find an old laptop that will run XP, install XP and the scanner software, link it to your actual PC via Ethernet or similar, scan using the old laptop. There is software around that allows you to "see" the remote PCs screen and give commands....Store the images where the actual PC can find an use them....

I know its not a great idea, but it seems sad to throw the scanner away......

OR

Is there a Linux driver for the scanner, if yes, dual boot Linux and scan under Linux.

Thanks Andy,

I tried downloading Linux, and yikes, I'm just not ready for another learning curve. I don't think Linux and Win 7 liked occupying the same hard drive. It got a little weird. I ended up taking Linux off, had to download something called md5sum, and repartitioning my drive.

It's been awhile since I've checked. I know that some updated drivers are being released, due to the massive public backlash against HP and others.

besides a VB, another way to try a a linux system is on a separate hard drive [even an external]

I don't really like dual booting [2 OS's on the same hdd] weird things happen, W7 doesn't play well with others

I run multiple computers. I have a company-supplied laptop (for company business), a new desktop (for my writing business), a laptop for the living room (for convenience), and the ancient XP desktop (for everything except Outlook). Plus three or four older computers in the basement in storage. (These are good to keep around. Once, when we were rewiring the race car, we were able to salvage some excellent wire from one of the old systems. The sheet metal is good for making small panels)

The workhorse remains the old XP machine, because I know how all the software works, and it works better than the new Windows 7 stuff. Alas, I can't run Outlook on it any more, and a series of viruses over the years have taken away functions here and there, but it's familiar and friendly. Whenever I have to write or edit something, or work with photos, Adobe or Excel, I do it there.

This might be the system of the future--that is, a new 7 machine because you have to, and an older XP machine that still works, just because you like it.

What would be really groovy is if Microsoft offered an option that allowed us to use XP templates and commands on all the 7 software--such as Word and Outlook. I might be able to retire the XP workhorse then.

There is maybe nothing against buying a new machine and running an older OS, though some drivers may be a problem....But if you aren't trying to do anything too exotic, give it a whirl.....

Does say windows 7 allow dual boot with XP? I guess it would depend on the mainboard compatability......perhaps someone with personal experience could jump in as well.....

Or try to look around for a mainboard first by checking which drivers are available.....not done it myself, but that might be a possible "way to go!".....

If a mainboard can run Linux, that may be a pointer that it might run older Windows as well ! (Just a thought!)

Thats my 2 cents.

That sounds like its worth a GA to me, so here is one!!!

AFAIK Linux is not intrinsically virus-proof, just hasn't yet attracted the attention. If it becomes too successful...

most Linux programs are much more self contained, instead of sharing configuration files

Linux doesn't share the registery with every program, so is less prone to mischief. apple uses a similar strategy

Andy-

I suspect trying to set up a dual boot with Win 7 and Win XP would fail, because every time I have set up a dual boot with Windows, Windows demands it be installed in the first sector. You can't have two operating systems demanding the first sector.

I suspect there is a problem with Windows 7 (that possibly originated with Vista) with regards to the fact that Microsoft allows 3rd party software to write security codes/licensing information to the boot sector, which is where, on a dual boot system, your boot loader resides. Essentially, it appears that this practice tends to corrupt the boot sector...

I had W7 and XP dual-boot. The W7 install disc offered that option and it worked with no problems. Of course, you don't run both at once, so performance of either is not degraded. However, that was with the pre-release beta W7 Ultimate and maybe they've removed or hidden that installation option on the commercial releases.

It was just a thought, thanks for the heads up.

Probably a dual HD system with some dort of "switch" would then be best.....

I have a couple of dual boot machines with 2 hdd's, no switch needed

windows is on the secondary HDD

the boot menu gives me a choice at start up

I can still access files from either...

Wow! That is definitely the way to go.....thanks for the heads up.

Actually, I have heard, but not confirmed, that Apple actually has the capability to run OSX (or whatever they are calling it) with Windows and Linux (or whatever operating system you want), without the hassle of having to reboot to change between systems. THAT would be the ideal situation, were it true...

Yes, I do it now using Parallels or VMware. It works great and you get all the benefits of OS X and its Unix roots with all the drawbacks we have grown to love with Windows.

Wonderful mix.

You may have just convinced me that my next computer will be an Apple...

Tell me, do you have a native RS232 port, or do you have to adapt the usb?

I have a uSB to serial port adapter and much to my surprise - it actually works!

Your mileage may vary.

Yes, usb to serial adapters work, but I haven't been able to figure out quite how to take advantage of some of the extra signals (DSR, CTS, etc.) I used to enjoy playing with. Not critical for just connecting a piece of equipment, but fun to play with...

The best one I personally know about comes from Rev-Ed and is very cheap.

I have never seen a failure with one, but I have heard that some from ebay are not so good or as reliable...

Posted earlier today!

Has anyone used Virtual PC XP Mode packaged in 7 Professional?

I downloaded it today and played around with it a bit.

I will no more next week, but value other's input on it's use.

Hum cannot paste the link here, guess it the 7 acting up.

yes try this one

https://www.virtualbox.org/

I can help you with getting it set up

things do run a bit slower, since you are sharing your computers resources & running 2 operating systems at the same time

I use Virtual Box to test out different operating systems & to run the occasional windows program that has no equivalent on linux [turbo tax, itunes]

you will need a copy of XP to install

we can certainly start a thread or 20 for how to's on VB's or setting up a new linux system

There is a very good chance that many of the Linux distros will have a built-in driver for the scanner- plug it in and it just works. You can test with a live CD or usb drive of your Linux distro of choice without doing any modification to your Win7 installation at all.

You can also run WinXP very nicely in a virtual machine in Linux. I don't know about running things in virtual machines hosted on Windows boxes...

I am happy with XP, it is more friendly as time goes by as I learn my way around it.

I do not feel the urge to go through another learning process with a system that is not backward compatible for a lot of programs. Why in Gods name did Microsoft not make this a major requirement of new operating systems. Obviously 98 & XP are miles apart in there operating methods but a lot of 98 programs seem to run OK in XP.

I was reluctant to upgrade from 95 to 98 to XP for similiar reasons, but now XP can handle large memory and fast USB it ticks all of my boxes.

Only problem in the futer external equipment will probably not have drivers for XP as I have noticed a lot equipment does not have 98 drivers only XP & Win 7 & vista.

So I will have to be pushed rather than jump to another op system.

I never had a problem with windows Vista, but I do understand the frustration with having to buy new software to go with the new operating system. I have to admit I love windows 7 and wouldn't go back to anything else. I am a little worried about windows 8, though. The interface looks like crap.

As long as I have an install disk for XP, I'll stick with it. Too many companies feel driven to always maintain the "latest" OS and MS apps. for fear of incompatibility issues. Depends on your needs, I guess. I still run Office 97 for most of my needs. For the few times I needed other capabilities, I have used Open Office.

As far as burning music CDs, I'm sure there are several good alternatives. Many years ago I opted for Feurio! and after I got used to it, just stuck with it. I is like Latin at this point, though -- no real development for years. But it's still a nice piece of software.

Feurio! looks quite good but as I like to store my music in mp3 format, which Feurio! seemingly does not support (if you know better, then let me know please. I only quickly looked through the lits of list capabilities), thats the end of it for me personally.

Of course there is a lot of seperate converter software around if you still want to use it....

...unfortunately, with MS, "...new & improved..."-programs actually means "...new & improved..."-bugs, errors and problems!

...I'm staying with XP as long as absolutely possible...I know what's not working in it!