UFOs, are they real

Oh no, not you too!!!!!

I am sorry Jules my apologies to you and my fellow CR4 associates - I got carried away - at my age I can call it a mental breakdown, low potassium or something like that - You are right Jules lets keep it on the positive thought mode..

Airmotorguy007 will return with a more positive attitude -Over and Out !!!

PS; This Ufology post does exist along with many unexplained phenomena !!

No problemo, I think you guys are absolutely great and this discussion has provided me with many late night hours of reflection and entertainment!

Jules

If I replied to you badly, it was my mistake!!! I truly apologize!!! I actually find your posts both informative and provocative.

Sorry about last night. It was definitely my bad!!!

Regards,

vermin-

Thank you gentlemen, it happens to all of us occasionally.

Here's one for you: My husband Jerome is a serious Trekkie. Nestled amongst the two foot-wide Belrog and Kong, he's got a full size cardboard cutout of Kirk in the "boy's room," which used to be my office.

I like the old Star Trek series, but don't know much about it as I generally avoid Captain Kirk ... I often wonder where the inspiration for Star Trek came from.

Would any of you be so kind to tell me?

Jules

Hoo boy! You better start a whole new THREAD for this one! :)

Gene Roddenberry, a.k.a. "Great Bird of the Galaxy," said he wanted to create a space version of a western. Specifically, he wanted to make "Wagon Train to the Stars"!

And, really, he did. As a kid who grew up hooked on westerns, I easily made the transition to First Generation Trekker in my high school years.

I guess you could sort of call me a Trekkie ... I did love the series, never missed a show growing up. I made the transistion from John Wayne, the Lone Ranger and Gunsmoke to Star Trek, effortlessly. Now I understand!

The technologies within Star Trek must have some basis in reality. Beam me up, Scottie!

Jules

Hi Jules,

Do you remember Buck and Flash? Better yet, do you remember Saturday matinees and cliffhangers?

-John

Flash Gordon in comics is one thing. Flash Gordon the black and white movie series from the nineteen-thirties is another.

Oh yeah, the next time you get to see the first of the original Flash Gordon serials, check out Ming's daughter and what she's wearing!!! Woof!!!

Makes me want to devolve into a human!

Right. So you must be around my age....

We've seen them as kids in the early sixties, on the local movie hall in the afternoons, when we got back from school.

Remember the episode where the "Sand-People" baddies were hidden, camouflaged / stuck to cave walls, and they would emerge, to our frantic scream?

And their space craft had the sound of a sick scooter?

And you didn't really care who's the bad guy or the good guy, just happy to see the bunch again?

I just watched it on late night TV with a weasel friend of mine while we were taking something that made us laugh way too much!

Whatever it was, it turned my tongue permanently fluorescent green.

Welcome to my world then. We can see in the dark, but only with our tongue whipped for some tasty insect.

And in any case you would want to have an episode reminiscent of these days, here is a full-length 20 minutes episode!

No! You need the first of the serials starring Larry "bustyour" Crabbe! He made three Flash Gordon series (this was the last), then he went on to make the Buck Rogers series, which doesn't get much air play.

And you have to watch the whole series to catch the cool fashion/action between Dale and Ming's daughter! Cat fights and all!!!

The thing is, Flash Gordon Conquers the Universe was the last of the three 13 episode serials. It's the first 13 episode serial (which was called something else) that was the best.

Interesting! Why did serials always have 13 episodes?

Jewish. Lucky thirteen. Christians consider thirteen as bad luck because it's Jewish.

Listen, if you come up with a better link for the rest of those, I'll be only glad to comply...

If memory serves me, 13 became unlucky only around the 1700's.

And of course, by your reply you do admit that Jews control the media!!!

I don't have a bias this way or the other. I told you, I don't consider myself Jewish. I already have a Guru.

I don't mind who controls the media, as long as they don't force-feed me any of their crap.

Does that mean that you have a viable link to the rest of Flash and Buck's films, or don't you?

I need a bottom-line here. Life is too short.

Let me get back to your bottom-line. Unless your offering cash!

If that's what it takes, so be it

4 series fit in one year?

That's the old way of doing it - now they get away with 6 episodes, allowing 8 series p.a. with 4 weeks for "specials" (Christmas, etc)

Is there any correlation between seasons and playing cards (apart from 13x4)??

Could be, but aren't you comparing today's TV broadcast practice with movie-hall show practice from the 1930's.

Things haven't changed much - (OK, Friends was done in "double-season") but the main idea of changing the scenery regularly is still applied (except for those d@:/@d soaps).

With Dr. Who, there seems to have been an attempt to make ~10 episodes per "season" for the first few, but have since regulated at 6 (Half-season?) - easier to plan???

Come to think of it, my home town movie hall would change their films once a week, with four films running simultaneously.

It was a town of a few thousand people.

Yes, yes! And wasn't Starship Troopers inspired by Buck Rogers? I love those evil alien scorpion things...

here's a tidbit for you:

The evilest Alien in Starship Troopers (the female in the cave) MUST have been inspired by the blood sucking Pfiesteria parasite (I'm a closeted parasite chaser) ... check this out! Even down to the "long thing" that sucks the guy's brain's out, these two match perfectly. Anyone got a pic of the Cave Bug?

The Pfiesteria is the same type being. I have the book written by the researcher who first exposed this ugly being. She, of course, lost all her funding once tourism was affected. Shockingly, the Pfiesteria parasite acts like a plant (yes, photosynthesis) until it scents blood, then it attaches to its host and sucks madly till it dies within a few days. Smart like a Cave Bug.

She says it's from hog excrement run off ... those huge pools of excrement that are kept by industrial hog facilities. I won't call it farming because it's not.

The host suffers massive health problems. People died.

The researcher and I had a conversation and I suggested she try using another medium to kill the parasite without killing the fish. She hadn't tried it yet, and I believe she did look into it although we lost contact.

Hollywood has to get their monsters somewhere.

Jules

That's downright scary Jules. After reading that kinda makes fish lovers want to rethink their diet. An excerpt says: "Pfiesteria Piscicida is a dinoflagellate, a one-celled organism that is both a plant and an animal. It can photosynthesize sunlight for energy, or it can eat meat! It can survive for years without food, and it can metamorphose in to 24 different known life forms!"

However, according to an article in Scientific American magazine (June 24, 2002) Wayne Litaker et al. of UNC Chapel Hill say "They discovered that many of the previously described 24 phases¿notably the unusual amoeboid and cyst forms¿were actually entirely different organisms found in the same seawater. Furthermore, none of the true phases observed in their cultures were toxic".

In addition, he says of "the cell from hell": "As for what, if not Pfiesteria, killed the fish, Litaker says that a lack of oxygen brought about by bacterial overload and stratified water conditions during certain times of the year could be contributing factors".

Now is the State, the CDC and possibly other entities, covering something up here?

Anyway, about movie monsters, one of my all time favorites as a kid was "THE THING from another world". The creature was an advanced form of plant life that thrived on blood (sounds like your pfiesteria). Wiki reports "The creature is attacked by sled dogs as it attempts to escape, and the scientists recover an arm, bitten off by the dogs. They examine it, and as it warms it begins to come back to life. They learn that, while appearing humanoid, the creature is in fact an advanced form of plant life".

Excellent post Jules. I was unaware of the organism.

-John

Aren't you guys talking about two different creatures. The one Johnjohn mentioned is responsible for mass fish die-offs on the southeast coast of the US. It also gives off a potent neuro-toxin that gets in the air and can permanently mess up a human's brain. If I remember the article Johnjohn is thinking about it was really strange to see beach closing signs from both the Board of Health and the local psychiatric department! Woof!!!

Any way, my favorite parasite is the American version of Leishmania. A little something with which to pay back the Conquistador.

Same creature. Yes, researchers were killed by the neuro-toxin,while fishermen had horrible boils where their legs had been in the water. The fish were filled with holes and sores. Yech. Nasty bug.

Actually vermin, I believe Jules and I were talking about the same creature; pfiesteria piscicida, a dinoflagellate. Amazing, I've learned to spell it, just don't ask me to pronounce it though.

Back to my earlier question. Has anyone seen the movie "THE THING from another world"? James Arness, though unrecognizable, played the monster. I said (post #444) that the creature in the movie sounds a lot like the above mentioned dinoflagellate in that it was an advanced form of plant life that thrived on blood. What I didn't say was that the creature in the movie predated pfiesteria by quite a few years. That tells me that pfiestepisciciciciiada... must have also seen the movie and decided it was a pretty good ploy. So there you are.

I can pronounce the first part, which is "Feasteria," but the second part... is it "Sisida"?

You are right about one thing, those bugs are sure smart. I'll bet the Cave Bug is the one making all the money even though in the movie she got stabbed and blown up.

She probably made a deal with the Thing for a movie and they cut Pfiesteria out of it altogether, even though they got the idea for both shows from the dinoflagellate.

I'm not sure you can patent appearances but surely there's a lawsuit in here somewhere. Oh, oops, am I off topic?

Pfeisteria sounds a little bit like a female name for some reason. Lets just call her "Feastie". But Piscicida now, that could be pi + sci + cida which is a scientist who studies pi and kills. From that we might get cave bugs. I know, it's a long shot but...

I'm sure that cave bugs is making a lot more money than Wiley.

And you thought you might be off topic! Hold on, there's a message coming in on my ansible.

Hey, I'm back. The message was from Werner Heisenberg in the universe over in the next lane. Only problem is I can't be sure where Werner is.

This post is making me tired! Wanna talk warp drives and wormholes?

John, thank you for appreciating a good bug when you see one.

If anyone has any scary monster pics, I hope they'll post them here. I found the Pfiesteria info through a book that was briefly popular, and she's got some excellent pics there of the animal. I wrote a parasite article or two back in the day, before it became the "in" thing to worry about.

Imagine, a bug that morphs from hog crap run off, can suck off the sunlight then morphs when it smells blood. And it's got a long blood sucking snout to stick into its victims. You can't beat sci-fi like that. I'm not a horror flick fan per se, but a good monster story...that's what I call entertainment!

Jules

Starship Troopers was originally written by the great Robert A. Heinlein in 1959. Apparently about the Militarization of America during the Korean Conflict.

Very appropriately written, I might add. He captures the nationalistic spirit that is required for any country to mobilize for war.

The Cave Bug as it appears in the more recent movie is most likely a Hollywood "improvement" over the original story.

The Kalyke Asteroid, one of Jupiter's many moons

Mimas (front) and Tethys (Back) two of Saturn's many moons

(Celestia bitmap capture shots, saved in *.JPG)

The Hyperion Asteroid, one of Saturn's moons, with one of the Procions (top-left) a neighbouring twin-star (Binary) system, some 11 light years away from the solar system. Most of our neighbouring stars are giants compared to our tiny sun, and therefore have much shorter and more violent life-cycle (due to much more intense gravitational forces), compared to the sun.

Our solar neighbourhood, classified here by 'clusters'.

Yep. When I got into this a couple of years ago, I was surprised to find out that there's an open language (can't remember the name) designed around astronomy! Everyone seems to use it whether you buy something or get it free. It's like graphics cards, there are a bunch of them out on the market, but all had better support "OpenGL."

Here, Earth, with background to show plotted constellations, and (horizontal) solar orbits, and the faint (top-left to bottom right) Milky Way cloud. The clock was set to real time. It shows the situation as it is seen, right this moment.

Yep, I should have done my reading of all things CR-4 before positing the question...the thread you submitted here is quite fascinating, especially as I have the book referenced by this website. The argument within does seem to be based on science, but it could be voodoo science. I take the argument with a grain of salt.

Jules

Sifting through the chaff is becoming harder and harder these days of new-age pseudo-everything.

One have nothing to rely on but the age-old tested empirical knowledge he can master at any given moment, if only not to be overwhelmed or fooled by clever jargon and terminology manipulation, of scientifically oriented spin-doctors.

These are hard times, no doubt. Everything goes, and everybody's trying to fool everybody else, for any short-term gain on sight.

Why is beyond me. I was recently told that in mammalian colonies, over-population has the effects of increased aggression, decreased fertility, and higher metabolic rate leading to the shortening of individual life-span.

Go figure

Yuval,

I once made the comment that we are much like rats in a cage, but it was an unpopular analogy with some.

It's like with those who hate our collective kinship to apes. Some might take it hard, especially after a visit to the zoo.

Is it because it was too reminiscent to human life to be expressed as denial, or is it because while prisoned in cages, apes remain much more spontaneous then us, looking at them from the 'outside' so to speak?

Hi Jules,

When I started reading the book you referenced I had the weirdest feeling that I was listening to a street-corner evangelist proclaiming loudly "repent or go to hell you sinner".

A little too unscientific for my taste but this site delves into pole reversal quite nicely. The authors point out that "the [computer] model shows that in the inner core the magnetic field has an opposite polarity from the outer core, and this stabilizes the field against a tendency to reverse more frequently."

I've heard is mentioned that even as we speak we may actually be in the beginning stages of a pole reversal. As far as 2012 is concerned, I don't think I'll lose any sleep over such predictions (need more evidence first).

Nature does have her own (successful?) way for keeping things in check. I'm referring to Yuval's comments about over-population and increased aggression, etc. It works well for all kingdoms other than man's. Hey Yuval, why doesn't the over-population/aggression theory work with microbes (the bad guys)? If we could tweak it a little, maybe we could eliminate some bad diseases!

Cheers

"why doesn't the over-population/aggression theory work with microbes"?

Ah, but it does! ...so long as you consider poop to be an aggressive weapon.

I remember growing germs in petri dishes back in high school. Each germ colony stopped growing when it became overwhelmed by its waste products, even though there was plenty of nutritious agar left.

The job of drawing parallels to human pollution is left to the reader.

Right. With Agar-Agar there to play as our collective resource-base, say, fossil-oil, fertile land, breathable air, drinkable water, you name it.

And the Petri-Dish being.... Our Globe? Our civilisation's life-span? Our evolutionary niche? Our eco-system?

I had agar for dinner last night. Yummy! (served in a Petri dish).

We've come a long way since cholera stalked London:

Still got a ways to go though. Think about it, we may not have even been here at all if not for people like this

.

Which Indian ones; Apache, Comanchie, Iroquois, Sioux, Shoshone, Cherokee or this... ?

You're a hoot, man

Hoot?

As in "Beyond Belief" as if you thought of the Native-American Sioux Mother Teresa....

What a vivid image, of her, shaved in Mohawk, with twin braids, feeding the poor and desolate of Bombay from her Adobe Hut in the Mohave desert...

You too. Mother Teresa? Hot? You got me thinking again. I may not have my sleep tonight, pondering about the weird-weird characters populating CR4 lately.

That was my impression also. I found some of the book interesting but the tone really annoyed me. Especially the part about they are going to the mountains of Africa to hide out in bunkers and you better have money and skills or don't bother calling him etc.

Puh-leese.

Unfortunately, much of what's available to read these days has an evangelist tone to it. Thank you for another link, I'll check it out.

Jules

Addendum:

Well, apparently the Sun's poles will flip in 2012 according to NASA (and others). This pole flipping of our Sun seems to be a routine thing after all and, as far as we know, no big deal. However, the Sun's inhabitants don't depend on GPS, or have cell phones to go haywire, or creatures that migrate possibly by magnetism, or countless other things that we humans need concern ourselves with if an Earthly pole flip occurs. I still wonder if the inevitable flip will be rather instantaneous or if it will take place over years? Anyone have thoughts on this?

Ulysses will undoubtably provide us with lots of good data since is is orbiting the Sun perpendicular to the planetary orbits and "sees" the Sun's poles like looking at the end of a bar magnet.

-John

This UFO thing has been a fun ride you guys, and I think we've all learned something from it. However, it could be time to create a new thread....is there something we can take from this and use, or should we switch directions and head elsewhere?

Thanks ahead of time for your input and suggestions.

Jules

Well said Jules. If we (all those listening to CR4) are to impact world change it must be on a global scale. Of course we can all help by recycling (especially plastics), doling out personal $$ wisely, taking the time to help someone in need and as you say "give and receive". The more you give the more you'll receive! Proven maxim!

Third world countries, however, cannot, for the most part, do such noble things. Most of their population is eking out a meager existence on dry parched land, or deforresting rain forrests (as previously mentioned) in order to grow an immediate crop. Global impact of such practices is, for them, a nonsense idea; we must feed our ever growing families.

That last statement I made carries a lot of weight! Why is it that the poorest, most desolate people have the most children which they cannot possible feed? Why don't they get it?

Local cosideration for humanity, environment, etc. is important but we must be considerate and innovative on a global scale.

Just thinking aloud and considerating...

-John

I live near Albany, NY, an area that is filled with activists. There are a lot of people here in the Capital Region who are working to help those less fortunate both locally and in third-world countries. For example, UV for water purification is gaining widespread acceptance as it's very cheap and effective for village well systems. Some of my friends have worked for years to help implement pure water systems in third world water systems.

One year, the Albany Free School students traveled to Puerto Rico to rebuild houses after big storms, and last year they went to New Orleans for two weeks to work in bioremediation. They raise their own funds to go on "vacation."

I refuse to give in to gloom and doom. You may not see inspiring stories on the evening news, but they are happening all around us, interspersed with crime and sadness.

Here's a little one...my husband cringes when he hears it.

I was driving down Central Ave in Albany the other day. It's much like being somewhere like Harlem in NYC as drivers and pedestrians can be kind of well, crazy. I saw a woman with a child trying to cross the street, so I stopped, blocking traffic. The woman driver next to me stopped too. We both held the lane while the woman and her child scurried across the street.

That was the first act of complete solidarity I've experienced in Albany on Central Ave in 13 years. I hope for many more to come!

Jules

Hurrah for you(and your next lane compatriot)!

Solidarity begins with 2 and....

"Individual", which begins with "I" is the best one to affect change.

The term 'extended phenotype' may also include man's intelligent creations like boats, aeroplanes, books, not just language, science and religion or art.

In this sense, the aeroplane for instance, is man's tool of flight, and is considered such, as a consequence of man's DNA, just as the bird's wings are.

Very erudite observations Yuval, as I stroke my beard, lost in thought...zzzzzzzzzzz

Flying Saucer?

No. Northrop YB-49 (in-flight frontal view, 1950)

YB-49 (take-off ground view, 1948)

The Nashville elaborate all-whistling shimmer-crown:

This picture was taken from "The Best UFO Pictures Ever Taken"

On this site maybe, it's the best UFO picture, but not by far.

The best UFO pictures in existence, were taken in feature movies, where the production was much more elaborate, with much more professional lighting, to reveal much more elaborate models, with better shimmering lights, visual effects an other such stuff.

To produce this picture they did their best to mount red and green LEDs on the rim of the plate, with some downward directed spots to highlight the smoke-effect at the bottom. It's nice, but not nearly professional enough as in any of the film industry.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

As for the aliens, the extraterrestrial aliens, that is:

- They are here, they are far-more advanced than our pathetic technology

- They want to remain hidden, as not to freak us out

- We manage to get them on film, in all shapes and sizes

- They kidnap some of us, but this we never get on film

- We managed to salvage their fallen craft and latex made pilot but no-one wants us to know about it

- They are here to observe but not to intervene, but occasionally they butcher cows in a ritualistic manner, presumably for medical purposes

- They perform kids-play "doctor and nurse" anal inspection on poor helpless people

This is so silly.

G-I-V-E - M-E - A - B-R-E-A-K

Have we all gone mental on each other?

Nope, the evidence is here. We captured this one after it ran out of gas somewhere in Arizona.

Yuval, I don't buy it either. Great pic though. I looked at this site recently too, as all the news is talking about UFOs lately.

Tonight we watched the remake of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, and those aliens won. No wonder, with pod hatching abilities, and full maturity within 24 hours...

Those awful screams. They chill me to the bone

Good thing I'm married to a geek. I can take all this with a grain of salt. Or, in the case of Pfiesteria, with a grain of pork snout.

Jules

The whole Pfiesteria/alien mix confuses me. Pfiesteria is no joke and it shows how far and evolved has micro organisms gone, something no-one can say about the alien saucer craft crap.

The most popular accounts, and especially the photographed pics are so, but so primitive, it sometimes defy belief. You don't have to be a photo expert to see that some have sharper edges than the rest of the detail in the pictures, including neighbouring mountains or other land features focused on '∞'. Some are so evident and vivid as hoax you must wear girdle to avoid muscle damage while laughing, some are any weird light aberration, flying stone, bird cloth, that basically, the same.

I chose the blinking cake plate, because it is so obvious, and furthermore, has a series of shots there on this site, as if to emphasise that it was done as a hoax, because each pic had different lighting style, external lighting directed at the saucer to give another dramatic effect, and the smoke and the light at the bottom... this was way over-the-top. They 'over-shot the shot', as if it was meant to ridicule other, more innocent attempts, at fooling the viewer.

The Nashville Wedding Cake: Where was the alien's superb technology, to help them avoid being colour-spot-lighted like this? And who took this, a wedding-video-producer from Vegas?

So, so obvious. Not even vague or ambiguous, as to respect the listener's intelligence. We must be retarded then. What can one think?

Didn't that thing land on stage, and Elvis got out to start his big come-back show?!Where in black leather, he tried to reach out to all those flower children?

"Here! Have a nutter-butter sandwich and a pork chop, son."

Look at the blue ground-spot, directed at the top-right of the craft's rim.

Directed there by the welcoming-committee from Graceland?

Welcoming committee of Insomniac / Amnesiac veterans of past anal-inspection of the third kind?

Here is a classic mistake they (the aliens?) do:

This one, a typical Polaroid, to convince people that Polaroid cannot be tempered with during development stage, was later presumably forged on a PC desktop, as if we didn't know, that Polaroid can be scanned.

The focus point called 'infinity' (∞) at the end of the distance scale, is for any object beyond the 5 to 20 meters focusing range, depending on the lens type, wide to telephoto ranges.

The infinity point is the sharpest available focusing of light rays available on an optical system, having 'infinite' depth-of-field.

It means you cannot have objects in a photo, sharper than those in the 'infinite' range, no-matter-what.

In this photo, the background mountains should be as sharp as the cows if the lens was focused at infinity, but no, the cows are sharper.

This means that the focus was set at a distance shorter than infinity, around the cows somewhere.

But look, the craft at the top is even sharper than the cows.

Was it focused at a distance shorter than the cows?

Ya' think?

No, it was pasted later, after the shot was taken.

* Posted as a service to promote better forgery of UFO pictures, through better knowledge of light and optics.

The Argentinian Cow incident, revised:

Below, is the forged version, for comparison:

Looking at the cow's texture, compared to the background texture, it's clear this cow was pasted, even though the edges were "feathered", to blend them "naturally" into the back.

In this incredible shot, taken by my friend Guido The Pimp, one of the airborne cows, actually drinks liquid Kryptonite, from the top of the mother-ship.

Note the daughter ships waiting in line for their turn, to air-fuel the mother.

These must be especially nice aliens to feed the cow, but shouldn't the mother ship be larger?

As for Pfiesteria, my point is that Starship Troopers *might have* copied that parasite to make the space alien bug. And it was a great opportunity to introduce one of my favorite, read, most fascinating mutated *earth aliens.*

Of course it's horrible! You don't see me swimming off those poisoned shores, and I doubt a single hog farm changed their practices. Remember, the researcher lost her funding for this particular project multiple times. Rodney Barker wrote a book about her research, highly recommended and thrilling reading.

Here's the cheap amazon link for those so inclined. Now you know what I do when I'm not on the forum.

Jules

It is stated there that local pollution levels may cause the bug to breed like crazy, but the bug's nasty life-cycle is a mere occurrence of a successful variant, from a population prone to naturally occurred mutations. It just found a niche to breed.

It's mere existence is a natural business, we're just unlucky enough to be exposed to it's toxins.

I think I read somewhere, some two-three years ago, it's not even indigenous to these waters, and probably migrated from, what was it? Australia or Borneo?, Anyway, Here (in: National Environmental Standards for Handling Animal Waste?) it says:

"...No one really knows the origin of Pfiesteria piscicida, the microbe killing fish in Maryland and North Carolina, but run-off from livestock and poultry operations, rightly or wrongly, is perceived to be a chief culprit. It is believed that rains wash nitrogen and other nutrients (from manure applied to fields as fertilizer) into surrounding waterways. These nutrients are thought to nourish the Pfiesteria microbe. The perceived connection between the microbe and livestock and poultry production contributes to support for some solution..."

You know, the Mediterranean sea is lately a victim of an algae which migrated from the Indian Ocean, and during the last ten years, decimated incredible amounts of marine life, by emitting some complex toxin, which was originally there to protect it from a nasty fish of family of fish species who had it on their diet.

Hi-Diddle Diddle, the Cat and the Fiddle and the Cow jumped over the ???? SAUCER !!!!

HOLY COW - Batman ! Who said cows can't jump... I can't tell from the photo - But is that a complete set of Royal Dalton china saucers without cups ?? The fuzziness of the photo suggest that the problem of bovine rear gas exhaust is very prominent.. What are they feeding the cows in Argentina - hay and beans !!

Just thought I would insert some humor !!

UFO is that voice, that announcer, narrator annoying voice from doom street.

You have it in English you have it in French you have it Hebrew, You have it in Spanish you have it in German and dutch you have it Hebrew, you have it crawling ear-to-ear inside your brain.

What is it? Can someone explain how did it colonised every bit of audio domain, in the last 10 years?

Yuval et. al.,

We now have UFOs and accompanying technology imprinted on our brains. Tell me pray tell, where do we go from here? I am taking suggestions for a new blog from you and the guys. This next thread is YOUR BLOG.

What do you want to talk about? By the way, I have greatly enjoyed the Hebrew alphabet! I have no such ability on my laptop here in the US.

Jules

There's one thread, I turned to become my nurtured baby, only it's tucked away somewhere, in a god forsaken place

Hi Jules,

Good question. Looks to me like most everyone enjoys these "what if" threads, hence the popularity of this one. At the moment I don't have a specific topic for a thread but how about topics that have to do with "concept" ideas, such as concept cars, concept propulsion systems, concept widgets, etc. You get the idea, right?

Folks that subscribe to forums such as CR4 seem to have a natural propensity to conceptualize things that wouldn't even enter the thoughts of many average people, and CR4 posters are quick to jump on a, sometimes quirky, post and expand it into a vision that might actually be do-able.

I suggest topics of discussion that lead folks to think (and wander) outside the box of what many call possible. Lets rename possible to possibility. As has already been said "within genius lie shreds of insanity" (paraphrased).

Regards,

-John

Mine got towed last week by the Florida Space Troopers to an undisclosed location within Area 511. $47.50 reward for finding it and returning it with no scratches. Just painted the sucker about a moth ago in midnight blue. May the force be with you!

Very interesting discussions. Has anyone thought that some of the UFOs are Earth origin but from a different time like 3600 AD? Our government's silence is a giveaway afraid to mess up the timeline. The visits may be accidental. Take the Phoenix lights as an example, one could conclude that the propulsion system might be causing a hole in space-time contineum due to some malfunctions in the system.

Just like electrons can be used to create massive magnetic fileds, there must be some particle out there that can be used to negate gravitational fields or warp space time. Find it and be rich....

I am; And as the statute is right there close to the 5 year to life away from Dec, 22/12. I am pretty safe to say I can tell. Not however on this forum. e me at helliwellash@aol.com . I am not about to spill guts to anyone so I need a prefix code to send you info. Hint; the Reliant, ST3.

Er, the prefix code was sent so that the Reliant would drop its shields without Khan and his crew knowing it. Who's shields are you planning to drop?

What if the UFOs are advanced, peaceful, human-looking beings from another universe?

Did you mean "Alternative Reality"?

Surely not "Parallel Universe"

Dear photonicgirl... While i have no quantatative data to support this discussion, I feel that it is largely based on speculation. So, I must throw my perspective into the fray. My curiosity for the science of space has led me to envision the possibility of many things. It wasn't until i saw the last live space shuttle satellite feed that my curiosity led to different understanding. My good friends father used to record all of the space shuttle misssions, from the eighties on. Well, during one transmission, he observed that the feed was cut halfway through. Upon further inspection, (and I have seen this myself) the feed was cut by nasa, after an object that apparently had the ability to move at great speeds and stop suddenly was shot out of the sky by what appeared to be a laser of some sort ( speculated to be the chemical based laser system "star wars" of the US cold war era that supposedly was not developed by the US government). A Chech army general also gave his support to such claims and both (among others) were ridiculed and dismissed. What I saw was no trick photography, and such technology is not available to us yet. Beyond this, I must say that what I believe is the possibility of our existence allows the possibility for other sentient life to exist. You see, I basque in my own insignificance. In our vast universe, the possibilities are endless. For us to exist, means that in galaxies and solar systems all across the universe it is concievable to me that other life forms can also. We have different life forms on our planet. Some use oxygen to breathe, some don't. Is it possible for another sentient being to exist on another planet 200,000 light years away in a solar system half a billion years older than ours that breathes something else ? Who does know, I guess, but if I exist, I acknowledge the possibility that we are not the only species of intelligent life in such a vast universe. It is beyond me how one can think that this planet and the human beings on it are the sole sentient life forms of our universe. That is crazy talk to my open minded personality. Indulge me here please... As far as space travel, and being able to navigate etc., it does seem to be possible. The way I envision it however, is a ship with a certain shape, flat and round perhaps, but one that can manipulate its own gravitational field (or multiple interactive fields). If you could generate and manipulate your own magnetic field, you could control density and either push off or be pulled towards another gravitational field such as a planet. If I had a ship that could do this, I could use this to my advantage and manipulate my own field to either slow down etc. I always envisioned a ship that had say--huge manipulative superconductors that I could control. For ex., if my ship was made largely of superconductive material, or an outer shell, the cold of space would naturally allow it to be fully manipulative, and I could change the actual density of it by controlling alternate magnetic fields. There is new evidence that controlling superconductors also can eradicate magnetic fields also. It seems to me that these advances could also shield humans inside a ship, by repelling other magnetic fields and subsequent harmful radiation, etc. Perhaps a mixture of propulsion systems etc. could be used. And perhaps, even the projection of a magnetic field is possible. Who knows, of course i am no expert here, it is basically imagination that fuels me, much like so much science fiction in the past has fueled such advances as ion propulsion, lasers, and space travel itself. To me, imagination is the birthplace of invention. If it werent for flash gordon and star trek, so many advances in technology would never have been possible. Thanks again for indulging me here, csoul....

Like yourself, I support the possibility that other life forms must exist in our vast universe, if only to obey the Big Numbers Law.

Ther are however, some severe limiting factors, to the plausibility of other such creatures to visit our humble spot at the edge of the Milky Way.

To approach these in a comprehensive way, my suggestion would be to have some minimal agreement, as to the scope of factors involved in such discussion.

1. The laws of physics. In order to have a meaningful discussion to your set of proposals, we must firs asses, if the laws of physics are valid all over the universe.

2. Our definition of the term "Life". Life as we usually perceive it, is a chemical self-replicating process, within a system, active in a thermal-slot, and bound by the laws of physics.

3. The limiting factor of space-travel and valid velocities. Low rest-mass-particles may travel very fast, but as they approach C, the speed of light, their mass increase significantly, to a kind of a dead-end, where they might require the entire available energy contained in the structure of the universe (Matter Equals Energy) to approach C, the speed of light. Clearly, this is a paradox, and it so-far only involved a single particle, a proton, electron, whatever, let alone a macro-object such as a probe, a spaceship, whatever.

4. The availability and dispersion of non-star objects in the universe, to support the existence of any form of life. A star is a star is a star. The gravitational forces within it's perimeter limit the formation and variety of elements, and their physical behaviour, so, pretty much exclude the possibility of ant form of life to exist there.

Most celestial objects we managed to map so far are stellar, and of those, most are multiple-star systems, of which most are twin-star systems, with little or no (Gravitational) room for non-star objects to physically exist. "most" in this description is something like 99.8 to 99.9 of identified stellar systems.

The few 'candidates' for non-stellar objects so far discovered (by indirect evidence and informed deduction) were highly unlikely to support life, and the few that did, are not yet proven to exist.

5. The viability of possible contact with other life-forms. The availability of other life-forms does not necessitate the emergence of intelligence, culture, or civilisation. These may take unique path of evolution, and time span of millions of years to refine to a point of energy utilisation and space-travel technology to emerge. We may not be in universal period-sync with the existing few who were possibly on that route. We or them may perish before the others develop enough to travel.

There may be other such factors I cannot recall now, feel free to elaborate on this. Wherever we may take this, some common ground of term-agreement must be achieved, in order to have this discussion of some meaningful exchange.

I commend you on the establishment of a firm point of reference to work from.

My dear friend Yuval,

Greetings from NGC3370. I second Mr Rummels commendation of your laudable efforts to establish ground rules.

By necessity, we are constrained by our currently known laws of of the universe. However, by dogmatically proclaiming these laws to have unquestionable universal validity then we strike down, unequivocally, all possibility that we have been visited by "neighbors" from elsewhere. The enormous distances involved preclude visitation by any "being" with mass as you have just explained.

I suppose if there exists some life bearing planet that is much, much older than ours and intelligent aliens did evolve there, it's possible, perhaps, that they could have left on a journey to our planet many eons ago, and maybe they could have reached us by some conventional propulsion means. But I doubt it! If these "so called" UFOs were really visiting aliens, they would surely have made themselves known quite publicly to all of Earth's leaders.

If we accept, for a moment, that our physics toolbox is just not yet complete, perhaps there may be ways to navigate space time. Probably not in our lifetimes but still a genuine possibility for future generations. I really believe the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), scheduled to come on-line soon, is going to provide us with some absolutely astounding physics.

As far as non-stellar objects are concerned, I think there are far too many billions of possibilities to preclude intelligence by any statistical data we have at this time.

-John

Ditto.

What a bunch of crap!!!

We vermin have been in contact with alien civilizations for many years. The only reason why they haven't made contact with you, is because you scare the piss out of 'em. Get your collective acts together, and they might come calling.

What a bunch of maroons!

Thank you John.

You have said what I would have said, only in a much more complete manner, to dear Yuval's ground rules.

Who says our laws of physics are the only laws of physics!

Who says we know everything!

Perhaps we are indeed a primitive backwards race that is slowly limping towards eternity with very heavy karma on its back. While there's still time, there's always hope that we can redeem ourselves with good works.

Jules

After reading a few articles in New Scientist, last night, I'm concerned that we as a species have a very limited knowledge of reality itself. I keep getting the uncomfortable feeling that our physical brains may lack the structure to comprehend things about existence, reality, the Universe, and everything.

There very well may be an aspect of space that is very apparent and allows for interstellar travel, but we just don't have the wiring to perceive it. My God! It's 2007 and mathematicians are still in the dark about transcendental numbers! Little or no progress has been made in this field for the last 50 years!

Could we really be the chimps watching airliners flying over head.

We only use a tiny fraction of the huge capabilities of our brains (so I have read). At the end of the day our brain size is finite. No more chips to be squeezed onboard. A bit of neural training ,and growth of connections maybe, but still finite. Just so many cc's of capacity. It would take a fair amount of arrogance to think that the physically limited processor balanced precariously atop our bodies could comprehend all that is to be known. I was outa here, but I liked your observations vermin and couldn't resist saying so.

Hi Kris,

Perhaps we can only squeeze a finite number of chips aboard, but our ability to conceptualize, and dream, is unbounded. Supercomputers can't hold a candle to the distributed power of the human mind created by the internet. In this way, "the tiny fraction of the huge capabilities of our brains" has been magnified enormously.

It's true though, we are an arrogant sort. We refuse to acknowledge that we could very well be the chimps watching airliners fly overhead, as vermin so rightly said.

Thanks to the wisdom and insights of CR4 posters, and especially to Jorrie, I'm less ignorant, and maybe a little less arrogant, than I was before I subscribed.

-John

Hi john,

You're quite right about the numerous people on CR4 who can explain complex things. Many of them have an astonishing skill, and I've attained a grasp of some subjects that I'd otherwise have given up on. I emphasise 'grasp' since people like Jorie could undoubtedly take conversation to higher levels that very few (especially myself) could comprehend. Knowledge combined with the skill and generosity to share it is a great thing.

vermin's single sentence, explains perfectly a bigger idea. Even extending the idea of human capability to combined brain power across the internet, we are still probably a 'drop in the ocean'. If ET ever visits, he might view even a zillion Supercomputers linked together as 'primitive'.

I'm not so sure I agree that our ability to conceptualize is unbounded. To conceptualize requires the ability for thoughts to float around inside our heads. Dreaming must depend upon some sensory input/experience or learning. If a brain were grown, isolated in a petri dish with no input but for nourishment, could it be said to 'think' ? 6.6 Billion Litres or so is only a big processor size within our own terms.

It's all a bit too philosophical for me, so I'll leave you to it. I've enjoyed reading everyones posts/views here. Thanks john and all.