And the next number is: Newsletter Challenge (07/31/07)

what if the numbers "pivot" on the last 5 ..... then the next number is a 9 and the entire number sequence is:

89, 47, 13, 95, 18, 33, 85, 79, 5, 97, 58, 33, 81, 59, 31, 74, 98

just a thought .....

The numbers correspond to the atomic numbers of the elements as listed by alphabetical order of their symbols, not their names. So the next number in sequence is 56 as follows:

89 Ac Actinium, 47 Ag Silver, 13 Al Aluminum, 95 Am Americium, 18 Ar Argon, 33 As Arsenic, 85 At Astatine, 79 Au Gold, 5 B Boron, and 56 Ba Barium.

Oh snap! I think we may need a supplementary question to give the rest of us something to puzzle over for the rest of the week

Since I first came into CR4, threads have veered into off-topic discussions of chocolate, beer, whisky/whiskey, various means of transportation, preservation of and/or uses for deceased pets, baseball, cricket, etc. If you go back and read through the threads from the last 2 months, you will be entertained as well as educated. You will see we have a very eclectic and eccentric bunch here.

I can't think of anything to veer off into. Suggestions, anyone?

Dunno yet, but I'm sure we'll do it somehow.

Meantime, well spotted STL, hows about ;

....13, 17, 31, 37, 71, 73, 79 .....

2 easy!

Prime Numbers:

2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 31, 37, 71, 73, 79, 97, 113, 131, 199, 311, 337, 373, 733, 919, 991...

Pretty sharp STL what about these:

13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987

Pretty sharp STL what about these:

13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987

Fibonacci Sequence:

1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987, 1597, 2584, 4181, 6765, 10946, 17711, 28657, 46368, 75025, 121393, ...

Beefour ah wint two Injunairin skool i coont eben spil Fibbernatchi!

Bill Gates is soo nerdy, some say he's really square, but he would know the next number in this sequence:

1 4 9 10 19

24. But you gave too many hints.

31 37 47 61 79 101 127

What's next and the significance?

This is prime example of why this gets out of hand.

CLVII

157

N(n+2) = N(n+1)+(N(n+1)-n(n)+4))

Is there a ( or something missing somewhere?

13, 17, 31, 37, 71, 73, 79, 97, 113

Ummm, what happened to 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, ..? etc... there are quite a few left out of the sequence.

Kinsale

As STL said, the given numbers are primes in sequence. BUT,,each one can have it's digits reversed and still be prime;

13,17,31,37,71,73,79,97

31,71,13,73,17,37,97,

Some of the sequence is omitted because the numbers can't be reversed to give primes.

Yep. Works for me. STL didn't mention that in his answer. One of those things that is glaringly obvious after the fact.

Thanks.

DUUUHH! 95 and 33 are NOT prime numbers!!!!!!!!!!

"DUUUHH! 95 and 33 are NOT prime numbers!!!!!!!!!!"

Guest #41:

Yeah, you better hide behind that "Guest" anonymity! If you are replying to my post#10, I did NOT include 95 or 33 as prime numbers. #10 was the answer to the second challenge sequence posed by Kris in #5. I had already given the answer to the original challenge (which included 95 and 33) in my post #2 and it had nothing to do with prime numbers!

So, "DUUUHH!" yourself! Better go re-read the posts more carefully instead of just skimming them before launching an insulting riposte/re-post!

I LOVE ironic posts like this. The poster, being a little dim-witted (which in itself, is no sin) incorrectly concludes that he or she is "right", and someone else is "wrong". Given that, one possibility would be for the dim-witted to post something like: "I don't think 33 and 95 are prime numbers, are they?"

That approach might elicit a patient reply from someone who would explain the intricacies of the situation. That patient individual might even try to sooth the embarrassment of the dim-witted soul, (who evidently thinks that atomic numbers should be prime???) and might suggest that is perfectly OK for someone of limited faculties to be confused when several entirely different questions have been posted. Perhaps it's hard to keep the questions and answers paired up?

But instead, this particular dim-wit decides to be rude and abrasive, while emphatically stating the patently obvious assertion that 33 and 95 are not prime numbers. It's as if the dim-witted poster believes that someone, somewhere in this thread actually claimed that 33 and 95 are prime numbers. Of course no one here would do such a thing, because we're not that moronic.

Great irony. Makes me chuckle.

I couldn't have said it better myself, Ken... oh, wait, I did! <grin>

No, just kidding, good additional comments much apprecieated!

You speak for yourself here - wrt a previous signature - I'm still working on the idiot bit

Fyz

Wow. Your memory is certainly much better than mine!

Wrong... you missed the 18!!!

The 19th would possibly have been more appropriate for many of us - but unfortunately 91 is not a prime number....

Well spotted! I was looking for lengths of time between events...but couldn't see a science/engineering link.

Isn't google wonderful?

Good lord!... Engineers can do a lot of chemistry huh? (oh! not unless you're chemical...) Excellent!

Next question please..

If Sir Yogi had been hanging around the lab in 1808, he might have discovered the answer: 56

What is your favorite atomic element and why? Mine is the rarest stable solid element in the earth's crust. Tellurium reminds me of delirium which is my usual state of mind.

Gold. Guess!!

Titanium - so many engineering uses....

Mercury. Because of the great costume.

Favorite element is a bit of a tossup really.

I just love Titanium, light weight and high heat tolerance - wish I had a set of kitchenware made from the material or my car. =P

For practicality I have to go with Nitrogen. Usefull in so many ways and fun to play with in its various states. (oooo instant DIY Lab icecream)

Oxygen is my favorite element. (Thanks, Sir Joe!) It is so versatile. Combine it with Hydrogen and we get water (ah, how refreshing!). Take it out of the air we breathe and see how long you can suck on N₂ and live! In pure form it helps boost rockets into space, helps sick people breathe easier, and helps cut and weld metals.

On the other hand, most of the metals we find occur mainly as a compound with oxygen and cannot be usable as metals until we get rid of the oxygen. Aluminum was thought to be a precious metal like gold and silver, because it was rarely found in metallic form in nature, where it was shiny and workable into objects of jewelry. Napoleon's crown was made of aluminum rather than gold because it was more valuable at that time!

What other element has been compared to Love in a song?

Love is like oxygen
You get too much you get too high
Not enough and you're gonna die
Love gets you high

Next to oxygen, Lithium has to rank high on the list for people living with bipolar depression or manic-depresive syndrome.

You really get about man! How did you come to know some 70's Brit glam-rock band ? I just noticed that it charted in the USA, but had you caught it during one of your forays over here ? Lightning fast on the numbers as well. Very cool. I'll keep my eyes out for a good number puzzle for you now. I've a feeling it will have to be a good one.

We (I) named my Nan's pet fox after this band...there were at number one with Fox on the Run at the time....

The best grass is blue. Not sure that link is it though. Was Nan's Fox draped around the neck ? They're getting real good at opening wheely-bins.

Real live fox - one of three cubs found abandonded when some clearing out was done where one of my uncles worked. Nan had one vixen (she lived to over 10 years old), the other vixen was released by the couple who took her, then brought back her first litter to show them before disappearing again, the dogfox was given to the Wildlife zoo and, as far as I know, lived to a ripe old age.

Sweet used to go on holiday (caravans and camper vans) with my Nan!

Awww, that's cute. I get lots of Hedgehogs, but they're not exactly cuddly. An Uncle once had a Squirrrel as a pet - it trashed the house. Well ain't that a surprise !

One of my neighbours has an amazing assortment of stray cats. Most are missing body parts or various bits of their senses, but all are really nice.Loving home and all that. Badgers are the coolest things to have visit. I don't get any here, but used to get them when living in Redfoxtershire.

That'll be the county where the county town's (city) football team's logo is a fox's mask? I charted and stiched it about 11 years ago...

Yup, lived in most bits of it at one time or another. One of life's many Ruddles. Your prose has me in stitches....

"You really get about man! How did you come to know some 70's Brit glam-rock band ? I just noticed that it charted in the USA, but had you caught it during one of your forays over here ?"

Oh, Sweet!

Well, I have only been to Britain once, in 1984, unless you count changing planes at Gatwick (I don't). Most of my travels overseas have been to Germany and Switzerland.

Yes, they did get some airplay here. In particular, I liked to listen to one station that called its format "Progressive Rock" as opposed to Pop or the "Hard Rock" or "Acid Rock" also popular at that time. So my early favorites included Yes, Heart, ELO, Beatles (of course!), Chicago, Moody Blues, eventually including David Bowie, (early) Elton John, Billy Joel, The Who, Three Dog Night, etc.

Then of course there was what you call the "glam-rock" bands, including Sweet ("Love is like Oxygen" and "Ballroom Blitz" were my favorites). Among these I also liked Queen, T-Rex, Lou Reed, Mott the Hoople, and our home grown "glams", KISS and Alice Cooper. It was a nice alternative to the 70's disco craze!

Later on, I liked Men in Hats (the original "Safety Dance"), Devo, The Cars, The B-52's, even some Pop like Blondie, Europe, the Go-Go's and the Bangles.

I also like Jimmy Buffet, Bob Seger, Neil Diamond, Jim Croce, Alan Parsons Project, Renaissance, etc. so I guess my taste in music is quite eclectic.

I also did some DJ work at the Student station at my university, which fought Disco and Pop tooth and nail, despite huge requests by the "unwashed". One DJ even took our only record (yes, pre-CD, 45rpm) of "Life is a Rock" and, literally smashed it on the air. In fact the DJ's used to take great pleasure in sailing 45 rpm records of Disco and Pop music that the station received from record companies across the "bullpen" aiming for an open air duct. Of course the wall around the air duct was studded with pieces of broken records! They were not all good record hurlers (a bit ironic for "disk jockeys" or "record spinners"!)

Now I listen to a station that calls its format "Classic Rock", formerly "Adult Contemporary" until the "Contemporary" part no longer fit most of what they were playing! Recently, they changed to a "No Repeat for a Week" policy, and that got them digging beyond Billy Joel, Heart, Moody Blues, etc. and what did they find in their "morgue"? Well, I heard "Love is like Oxygen" again for the first time in years. Wouldn't surprise me if "Ballroom Blitz" was next!

Yup, I remember all those bands too. Some with affectionate nostalgia, and some with a slight squirm of embarrassment (a bit like seeing an old Kipper tie or one of those passing fashions). Plenty of them still reside on the shelf (the albums, not the ties !). I didn't much like Sweet, but that Guitar riff is fairly unforgettable. Hadn't thought about it in years 'till today. I've usually got some music going on in the background, but like yourself it's somewhat wide ranging depending on the mood I'm in (or the mood I want to be in). All the way from Joni Mitchell to Metallica in a flash sometimes ! My implying it's a linear change is probably not quite right, some kind of 3D thing would be better. More often than not it's a bit of acoustic guitar or something like that. When I have the radio on it's usually tuned into Jazz (not the foot stomping trad style, more on the edges of the definition like Level 42). I never could fathom some of those labels like 'progressive rock', but most stations have their own vibe.

You got me rattling off topic here, I should be mulling over a new number thing to see if I can catch you ! Sneaky. ( Maybe that Guest is just an Arsenicsulphur.)

Yup, I remember all those bands too. Some with affectionate nostalgia, and some with a slight squirm of embarrassment

Funny, those were exactly my thoughts. Those were all groups I liked at the time (possibly with an exception or two). I play Broadway show tunes (on the piano) all the time: Gershwin, Rogers and Hart/Hammerstein, etc. and at least half the time, it sounds just like elevator music (albeit less competently played) but I do a lot of improvising, so to me it sounds like great jazz, with subtle nuances, blah blah blah. I think they'd kick me out of most old folks homes, because I'd be putting everyone to sleep... but still I play the stuff. Love the lyrics (although I have no memory whatsoever for same). (Maybe having no memory for the lyrics is a plus -- they seem fresh every time.)

Joni Mitchell! I used to listen to her endlessly, but haven't for a long time.

I listened a lot to The Association in my late high school years. There, I've said it. Now, having exorcised that demon, I'll feel better. (If I had a fake book with "Windy" in it, I might even play it late at night when no one could hear.)

Was Simon and Garfunkel in STL's list?

Was Simon and Garfunkel in STL's list?

No, we were discussing Rock music. Nor did I mention the dozens of other "soft Rock", Folk, or Pop artists I did like also, America, Bread, Eagles, Linda Ronstadt, Paul Simon (solo), Gordon Lightfoot, Dan Fogelberg, Harry Chapin (who played at our University shortly before his tragic death, saying "Well, now that I've played Rolla, I'm ready for the BIG TIME!" ), Seals and Crofts, Beach Boys, CSN&Y, England Dan &John Ford Coley and countless others.

I was also into show tunes for a while, when I did Community Theater in the years B.C. (Before Children). My most memorable role was as Eliza's father in "My Fair Lady" singing, "I'm Gettin' Married in the Mornin'!" and of course I did a terrible Cockney accent!

I'll jump on that tangent - I found at least 24 songs, whose one word titles are elements (H, He, Li, C, Ne, S, Ti, Fe, Ni, Cu, Ag, As, Au, and Hg). Yet I found 19 songs with the title oxygen. In all but two of the oxygen songs, it is used as a metaphor for love. The other elements are a much more dysfunctional group.

"In all but two of the oxygen songs, it is used as a metaphor for love. The other elements are a much more dysfunctional group."

My point exactly. I think I said what other element is compared to love in song, and gave one example. By dysfunctional, I assume you mean that the other elements were NOT compared to love, right?

Were all those other elements really one word titles using the element name? I would be curious as to which groups wrote/recorded them. The only song titles I can come up with out of my pitiful brain using other elements are:

Iron Man (Black Sabbath),

Mercury Blues (Steve Miller Band or Alan Jackson)

Nickel Song (Melanie),

One Tin Soldier (Coven), Little Tin Soldier (Donovan Leitch)

Silver Bells (Bing Crosby, etc.) and Maxwell's Silver Hammer (Beatles),

and clearly the runaway favorite of songwriters:

Gold (Spandau Ballet), Gold (John Stewart/Stevie Nicks), Fields of Gold (Sting), and The Power of Gold (Dan Fogelberg), Heart of Gold (Neil Young)

And I am sure there are a lot more! Curiously, all seem to be metals.

Then of course there is the 1959 Tom Lehrer song, "The Elements" , in which he names every one of the (then) known elements, ending with this rhyme(?):

"These are the only ones of which the news has come to Ha'vard,

And there may be many others but they haven't been discovered."

I entered just the element names into a Lyrics search engine, and discarded all but the songs with single word titles. (I also didn't try some elements such as molybdenum) For the most part, the bands were pretty much new to my 50yr old database.

as for "dysfunctional" - i.e. "Lithium" by Nirvana, and "Lithium" by Evervescence are both about obsession and medication. Most others weren't much better. None came close to the sweet's metaphor.

My favorite element is CO2. Excellent for cooling beer in a trash can as any old navy man will testify.

Poundkatt

Which element is that? Earth, Air, Fire, or Water?

Fyz

Which element is that? Earth, Air, Fire, or Water?

Foam!

ROFL

Which element is that? Earth, Air, Fire, or Water?

Isn't that another music group from long ago? No, wait a minute! I'm thinking of Earth, Wind and Fire. Never mind!

My favourite element has to be brass. Tooo many uses to name in this short space.

Are you pulling our legs? Or are you using brass as a term for "money"? Perhaps you were hoping to be marked with all of α, β, and γ?

"My favourite element has to be brass."

Uh, cuznmonkey, better take remedial Chemistry 101. Brass is not an element. Its not even a compound (molecules created from elements). It is a metallic alloy, or mixture of metals in a solid, semi-crystalline partial solution. Brass is a generic term for many different combinations of primarily copper and zinc, in different proportions, sometimes with other elements added (like lead or tin) in small quantities.

That was tongue-in-cheek StL. Cu/ZnMonkey = Brass Monkey

The main two products where I work are copper and zinc.

Try this one:

..., 0600, 0900, 1200, 1500, 1800, 2100, ...

Seems too easy, right?

That is the military time for the standard times of 6:00 am, 9:00 am, 12:00 pm, 3:00 pm, 6:00 pm, and 9:00 pm. So the next in the sequence would be 2400? Or is it 0000?

--Ariel

The next "ought" to be 2400....because the sequence increments the prior number by three hours. Technically, that's when the little hand is on the given number & the big hand reaches--without exceeding--the "12" on the clock. Thus, at "0000" the big hand would have traversed one instant beyond the "12" and into the next three hour time period. On the other hand, given that this is military time notation, one will accept whatever the superior officer says is correct -- which means by that method of resolution either or both 2400 & 0000 are correct.....AND....merely asking that question is likely to correspond to "volunterring" for some distasteful side duty....

From an old private...the correct answer is "When both of Mickey's hands are straight up."

<chuckle> Yes, yes. 'Tis ye olde "Military Time", or 24-hour time format. I believe you will not find a single digital watch that shows 2400 ever when set to 24-hour format, it will always be 0000, "When both of Mickey's hands are straight up." (at night that is, not noon, unless of course you are using GMT/UTC halfway around the world from Greenwich!)

I guess the 0600 was the giveaway. Maybe I should have had 2355, 2356, 2357, 2358, 2359, ....

I wonder how many would have said 2360! That would be no more wrong than the solution to the challenge question posted before mine, just not the answer being sought. That is the problem, but also the fun, of some of these questions, when multiple answers are possible.

0000, you sly devil.

0000 ??????

10 (ten) is next - Linear sequence y = -2.6333x + 64.722 (Excel curve fit)

nah, 14. I was sleeping it of in a bus station last night, so I should know.

Blakey.

Looking at the above, I'm afraid these will be too easy:

?, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 26, ?

1, 2, 6, 42, ?

?, 1, 4, 19683, ?

Fyz

For the second one, 1806 seems obvious.

The other ones require thought, however, of which I am currently incapable.

3, 1, 4, 1, 5, ?

One of the problems with sequences is that they are mostly either obvious in retrospect, or they rely on extraneous knowledge.

Fortunately, yours has multiple interpretations.

Menta's IQ test would have regarded this as two related sequences => 1, 6, 1, 7 ...
Good pastry-cooks might give the following numbers as 9, 2, 6, 5 ...
Personally, I prefer ... 3, 6, 1, 7, 1, 8, 3, 9, 1, 10, 1 ... as it shares the worst features of both the previous interpretations

The follower term of my third sequence is straightforward once you have identified the form. Its preceding term is rather more interesting...

Hi Fyz,

The third one is obviously 4^(4^3), but I ran out of fingers and toes and nobody here will let me use their abacus, so I don't know the number.

Tom

Ooh! I forgot 0^(0^0). Even Sartre would roll his eyes at that!

Tom

Isn't there a -1 in that or did I loose myself ?

340282366920938463463374607431768211456

Yes, there is. I think the value is 0, but my last neuron got wrecked wondering why we wanted Beckham so badly. Want him back?

Only if you promise to keep 'Posh'.

If you take her also, we're willing to discuss any two colonies of your choosing.

Nooooo way ! She's yours for keeps . So much air in one head. eeesh. Britain's greatest ever export.

Might be worth it if there's no CO2 in there - make a massive contribution towards our Kyoto 'commitments'.

Fyz

OK, we'll keep her if we get Richard Thompson and Judi Dench in compensation.

Tom

The section I presented was meant to be:

1^(1^0), 2^(2^1), 3^(3^2), so the first term is 0^(0^-1), as suggested by Kris. 0^-1 is infinity, so this is 0^(infinity). But do we really really know that 0 is positive? If not, it could be negative infinity. Positive infinity means that the value is 0 as you suggest (and a very noughty 0 indeed); negative infinity gives an infinite result. Curious, what?

Fyz

I'm impressed with the 8211456 part. I think of numbers greater than my age as being big or really big. I use Avogadro's as the dividing line, so this one seems really big to be.

What's wrong with the 176 bit ?

Big numbers are a pain. I agree that 'really big' is a sensible stopping point. It all depends on context of course but 'gosh' suits me quite well most of the time. If I can reach 11 each morning, then I am happy for the rest of the day (having reached 'gosh' point) and any larger numbers are of little importance. To keep people happy, numbers greater than 'gosh' have various descriptors varying from 'Impressive' through 'Bloody Nora' and so on. Avogadro's is a useful measure, though for everyday life 'Eiffel Towers' seems to work in most situations.

I didn't think you were a francophile! Eiffel Towers indeed! What's wrong with London buses (are we still using Routemasters as the standard even though they're no longer in service?), football pitches and "areas the size of Wales"?!! Can't we keep any of the old standards? There's too much moderdisation!!!

That looks to be exact.
Now about that first term? It's actually quite straightforward.

Unlike the original unreduced version of that sequence, which starts as follows:
1, 4, 7625597484987, ?

The next term is really big. The first term is contentious - why?

Fyz

"...I ran out of fingers and toes and nobody here will let me use their abacus, so I don't know the number."

Tom, did you lose your slide rule? If you did, you might ask STL if he will lend you the one in his avatar.

I don't know how to use a slide rule without an ethernet port.

Uh....fingers and toes and abuci (more than one abacus?) are used for adding and subtracting. Slide rules are used for multiplying and dividing and higher functions like logs and trig. (NO math jokes, please!)

.

I saw a Chinese fellow on TV doing multiplication with an Abacus (no, I don't know the plural). He was pretty good, but for all I know he could have been just a savant fooling folks. As for fingers and toes, some of us hillbillies (that's highlanders to you flatland folks) can do up through our twosies.

Tom

Either abaci (no longer allowed in buildings accessible to the public in the UK?) or abacuses is apparently acceptable - which is rather strange because I thought the origin was Greek.

Fyz

OK here's one for you to mull over, what is the significance of this number string?

141,592, 653, 589, 793, 238, 462, 643, 383, 279

If the Indiana legistlature had gotten their bill passed some hundred years ago, they would all be zero.

OK I have to admit I didn't know that happened.

I didn't get much history from my geometry teacher.

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_341.html

Amazing. What would we do without brave lawmakers willing to protect us from irrational numbers?

Curious - if you measure 'pi' on the surface of a sphere, you can get any value** between 0 and 3.1415... But all the values in the bill (3.2, etc) were greater than the standard value for pi. A surface with straight radii and ripples around the circumference could fit the legislated values, but is too obviously artificial. Can anyone suggest an apparently more uniform surface where the legislature's values can be found?

**For a given circle, the values for the circumference and the area will be different...

Lifted from Jan Gullberg. (In a bit of haste Fyz - I'm charging around trying to catch up on stuff)

Hi Fyz,

Forgot to answer earlier (low on meds?). Try spinning the circle very fast.

Tom

ROFL

Nice thought - but assuming this is relativistic contraction, I think this reduces the circumferential length faster than it reduces the radius - so pi still less than 3.14...

Fyz

Sum won wuns tole me that pie are squared. I tole him he wuz crazy cuz pie are round!

"Sum won wuns tole me that pie are squared. I tole him he wuz crazy cuz pie are round!"

What about cobbler? And then there are those fruit pies made by Hostess, Dolly Madison and others. They have two squared corners and two rounded corners, but an overall rectangular shape.

ROFL - twice in one day. - I'll have to get some new underlay, or I'll bruise myself. Should the second sentence end pis around- or doesn't that work on your side of the pond?