Getting a Law Is Only Half the Fun

seems CA, is the first to have any type of law.

Yes, the Left Coast thinks anything can be cured by passing a law. When all those companies decide CA is not the place for their business, they will leave. Lots of unemployed, so raise taxes on those who are left so they will leave. Serves the idiots right if anyone with sense leaves CA, and then the politicians can sit and re-elect each other till they starve.

I read an article some months ago about how California buys it's energy in from neighbouring states. The Cal energy companies have (it was reported) been bullying the neighbours into more 'green' production methods ( the article related to coal). It did sound a bit like they were buying a conscience in Cal; " You make our energy and we'll also tell you how to do it". Not being American I can't add to this, but there is a similar theme - Many businesses operate with 'carbon off-setting'. Sounds to me like buying your way out of trouble. The rich will use air travel more and simply plant a tree. That sound a bit like " Is it OK for me to hit you if I give you a bandage after?".

I'm not bashing California ( or anybody else) for how they tackle such things, but these are complex issues. The only sensible thoughts I have are to use less power as individuals, and go nuclear until better solutions are found. The cost of wind power is huge. A vast new wind farm proposed off the East coast of England will not even compensate for traffic growth at Heathrow. A proposed tidal barrier in the Severn Channel will have unknown eco effects and not provide electricity to a very big area. Transporting electricity from remote areas where nobody minds wind/solar farms will involve large power loss.

having done work in CA, the bureaucracy there, is ridiculous to say the least. even the state governmental dept. contradict themselves so, that the further you dig in to do it right, the more questions you find. And you really never do find a solution.

Thanks Phoenix,

It's pretty much the same here, except I think America has more laws that enable information to be accessed. The UK is one of the most secretive places in the world. Stuff get's deemed 'secret' unless a valid reason is found for making it 'public-domain', which sounds a bit opposite to the US approach. If the government can't keep it officially secret it gets buried in a mountain of bureaucratic paper-work. Politics does seem to be about 'who can climb to the top of the dung heap best'. There are something like 50 UK agencies who can demand access to my house without court order. Some of them (like the forestry commission) are just plain weird. A popular saying here is that 'An Englishman's home is his castle'. Don't believe it for a second. My typing is probably being computer filtered as soon as I hit the return key. Enough suspect key-words and an opo at GCHQ will be checking me out. You have Uncle Sam and we have Uncle Gordon et al. (Gordon you're a **** btw. I don't care !)

Hello kris,

slightly off topic, back in the 70's, (with the spying that was going on between u.s. and the soviet union)

a professor came up with a solution for national security.

He proposed to release everything. and that we'll bury the soviets with information, and it would be left up to the soviets to sort through it.

it was only considered, it did make a point........wait a second.........maybe they though they try it at home first... (at least its seems to work for the u.s. citizen.). ..........and somebody forgot to kill the project....another conspiracy theory is born.

With Government it is about REVENUE -- not PEOPLE or TREES or ANIMALS especially in California.

California is the first to make laws that will create an industry which will generate revenue for the state. The environment is not the issue to this state -- or the Feds. It is all about revenue -- the greenies just give them the power to rip off everyone in their path.

This type of stuff is why all of our manufacturing jobs are disappearing.

We can no longer compete in a world market where disregard for the environment by other industrial countries is rampant, not to mention child, and prisoner labor, and WE (the USA) must obey all of the laws.

We seem to fight wars this way too. We must comply with the international laws and enemy combatants are immune to the laws. Let us fight to win AT ANY COST and BY ANY MEANS, wars would be over shortly, and our soldiers will live to fight another day.

GREENIES do your thing-- I hope you are proud -- the USA will be a third world economy within 20 years and much of this result can be attributed to the unfair manufacturing constraints in the USA, and unfair trade relations with competing countries.

The SMOG laws in CA are a good example -- this is a good thing in it's concept. Results are a government created industry where the gov't only participates to collect fines and create an economy were only the middle class and above can hope to comply, the poor are fined if their old car is caught on the streets. Oh I know, the state will give them a couple of hundred $$ for their transportation -- what then? The poor must somehow aquire transportation -- usually no better that the state purchased from them.

It is obvious that most folks are sheep and will follow whatever is the popular thing to do.

To all the GREENIES -- the earth and universe will continue on it's course in spite of you self-rightous people --- just like it did with the dinosaurs it will spit us out and continue on --- we are just part of the EVOLUTION.

Have a great day and support the thief of your chioce in the upcoming election

The GREENIES ideal is to protect all wilderness by having fewer people [abortion, starvation], to live a vegan lifestyle, have only organic foods locally grown, obey the principles of PETA and use no animals for labor or any other purpose.

That gives you a few villages grubbing out their crops with stone tools. Fire is outlawed because of CO2, so no metals. Yes, the GREENIE ideal is to live naked [in keeping with their free love, no moral rules mentality] in mud huts as stone age people.

The politicians of the Left will use these dunderheaded GREENIES to take power and money and once in power the GREENIES will go to the labor camps. Of course it's for the money, because money means power and power begets more money for the politicians.

There are so many issues in this thread . I wonder if the 'pro-lifers' would like to explain that to some poor woman who has been raped, or a mother who has found that her expected child has severe deformity with zero chance of long term life. It sure is a complicated world.

Kris, being in favor of life instead of death has nothing to do with the cases you describe. I am speaking of the abortion industry which makes money by killing babies and the incongruity, nay, the insanity of the greenies who value all animals lives and still support abortion. How can they complain about biofuels causing starvation, when they want a smaller population? Not only are most greenies hypocrites, they are elitists who would not live themselves as they want others to live.

I am a pro-life person, but I would allow abortions in the cases you mention. But as the topic says, "Getting a Law is Only Half the Fun", because then you have to live with the law you made.

Thank you for your comments Taganan. I wish that I could reach firm conclusions in my own mind about some of these issues. Perhaps it comes down to the fact that all case are individual and need to be assessed on individual merit (?). There are overriding principles, such as respect for life in general etc, but these principle never seem to be applicable without question. Many green activists seem to be young/naive types, and I support your questioning of such activists. I am a believer of Global Warming as a threat to the planet, but have reservations about how we all determine possible scenarios. The actions we should take are another matter again.

Changing tack slightly, I get hugely annoyed at those who think they can take the law into their own hands by committing acts of terrorism against companies involved in genetic research etc. A great deal of ignorance exists ( though that's a strong way of putting it, even leading Scientists can't agree), and there was a notable case in the UK where a Paediatrician was attacked because some idiot didn't know the difference between that word and Paedophile. This has been a big problem in the UK. However, by similar token I am suspicious of some of the major corporations who promote GM crops etc. There seem to be no easy answers, and I think that's because we can't as yet define the questions.

I suppose that to answer the thread title I'd answer that 'We reap as we sow'. In a democracy we all have to reap what the system has deemed 'right'. Democracy is not perfect because it's hard to define, but I prefer it to some of the alternatives. Ultimately we live with our own conscience. If I could provide a better answer I would have pursued a political career, but I am by nature inclined to the science/engineering aspects of life. Your comments are much appreciated and I shall consider further on them.

Kris

pass a law that requires reducing carbon emissions.

Yep. Very soon every state and every country will be doing so.

Thats the plan towards reducing Global Warming.

They(maybe UNO) brought out something known as carbon-credits. Where carbon emissions are totalled to a credit unit factor and you(Plant/industry) get paid in US$ per credit saved.

So you(Plants) earns on saving carbon emissions.