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Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

Posted October 28, 2008 12:01 AM by Jaxy

After releasing a blog about fruits and vegetables, I received a request to look further into berries. After just peering at basic definitions, I knew that the wild blackberries and raspberries in my backyard were not true berries. There are a vast amount of other subsections to consider before filing a fruit under the coveted berry title.

The berry definition is derived from simple fruits, and also includes drupes and pomes. Berries, by definition, are from a single ovary and are completely fleshy. Berries can also be considered as simple fruits. A 'berry'– such as the strawberry – is not considered a true berry, but rather an accessory fruit (also called false fruit or pseudocarp). Strawberries do ripen from ovaries, but a significant portion of this fruit is derived from non-ovarian tissue, so these fruits are not true berries.

Then there are aggregate fruits, which are defined as having a single receptacle of multiple ovaries. Raspberries, pineapples, and blackberries are a good example of aggregate fruits. Observing such '-berries' closely, you can see that there are multiple sacks of juicy deliciousness.

Botanically, there are only a few fruits that are filed under berries – such as grapes and tomatoes. However, people have common perceptions of other fruits being berries, especially fruits with '-berry' in the name. Even cucumbers are botanically considered berries, but have never been perceived as berries by people.

This just proves that fruits normally called 'berries' have different structures, are formed differently, and are not 'true berries'. So next time you think that the '-berry' you hold in your hand is 'true', you have probably been deceived. If writing about vegetables, fruits, and berries has taught me anything, it has taught me that whenever I have any of them in my hand just to call them 'fresh produce' and leave it at that.

Resources:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/simple+fruit

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/aggregate+fruit

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/accessory+fruit

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/berry

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#1

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 10:27 AM

First you take away what I thought I knew about fruits and veggies.And now berries. I fear next that you will tell me that the color red is actually purple or something!

In all seriousness, I find it very interesting (and confusing) that things have been labeled or named wrongly all this time. While I will have a hard time coming to terms with cucumbers as a berry, at least I can say that I learned something new today!

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#2

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 11:31 AM

Hmmmm.......most suspicious!

I suspect this is a botanists way of inflating the occupation with definition-ology. I think I'm being druped courtesy of aggregation by cucumber!

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 12:31 PM

Awww - enough of the razzberries, that's just sour grapes!

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#5
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 12:42 PM

I suppose the next thing you're going to tell me is that cauliflower is nothing other than a cabbage with a college education.

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#8
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 1:14 PM

Well, sure...I don't know about the diploma, but they are different cultivars of the same species. So is broccoli, kale, Brussels sprouts, collard greens...but I digress. If there IS a diploma involved, it's sure to be in horticulture.

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#13
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 4:40 PM

I am humbled

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#18
In reply to #8

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 6:09 AM

Hi Enviroman,

I have a "Burberry Jacket", and I know damned well it isn't a berry!!!!!!!!!!!

Spencer.

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#19
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 7:54 AM

Suspicions confirmed...

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#22
In reply to #18

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 8:13 AM

Burberry is then like blueberry - a false berry...

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#17
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 11:19 PM

HMMMM indeed. Mr Quacker.

you said" I think I'm being druped "

Was this intentional in a discussion of fruits?

Hmmmm I wonder...

A drupe is a kind of fruit, Beaches or plums being the poster fruit for drupes...

http://greenspade.com/?p=124

A trip to Wiki pedia will tell you that coffee is a drupe as well.

But to keep things straight, I don't claim to know beans...

HA

If it was intentional, the secret is out. If it was not, your unconscious is smarter than you appear...

HA again.

mil

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#26
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 9:13 AM

My Dear Milo......

......you're just being cactaceous cos it's snowing in Ohio....welcome back from Hawaii, by the way!

And yes..sigh....you're right.......nomenclature comprises most of my sub-concious these days. I attribute this to watching Fox News. As a Canuck I cana control it but I sure can dig it. Heck, I'm beginning to quote scripture while sleeping!

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#29
In reply to #26

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 9:46 AM

It sounds like your subconscious is up to something.

Perhaps it is over taxed by your taxononomic proclivity.

I'm now in Southern California trying to convince local regulators that we really do need to use oil based metalworking fluids, not water in our cam type automatic screw machines. They have already banned mineral spirits...

Probably won't make fox news, but if you see a headline like 2997 machininsts laid off in Los Angeles area, You'll know I failed.

best regards

milo

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 10:21 AM

Maybe you should check out this: http://www.hangsterfers.com/

They have a product called S-500 that is an amine-based concentrate that mixes with water, and probably other options as well.

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#34
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 10:37 AM

Thanks EnviroMan. I am working with a couple of their guys on this. They are on the distribution for this issue. They have some nice veggi oils too.

Right now they are up to their ears in trying to comply with REACH regs in Europe too. Nobody making it easy to stay in manufacturing these days.

Appreciate the tip.

milo

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#37
In reply to #29

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 11:11 AM

I use cutting and grinding oils exclusively on 1020 CR steel. Nothing else works!

I will freak out if they take cutting oils off the market!

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#43
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 5:25 PM

Ya....I use ceramics. Took a while to find ones with correct rake angles.

I re-furbish my ceramic cutters with cerium oxide blown through a mini sandblaster I built....gives me about 50% extra cutting time and cleans 'em up quite well.

I'm finding a lot of tool steels have high sulfur content. I have no idea where they're from and am asking my customers to stop purchasing in lieu of using my own supplier.

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#3

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 12:30 PM

It was berry nice of you to post this thread! If cucumbers are a "berry", then are not all other melons (water, musk, honeydew, casbah, etc.) also technically berries?

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#6
In reply to #3

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 12:46 PM

You really want this more confusing than it is already?? Fine...

Watermelon - Berry

Muskmelon - False Fruit

Honeydew - don't know much about - does someone else know?

Casbah - ?? Never heard of.

All I can say is that not all melons are berries and not all berries are melons. I would ask 'does that clear it up?' but I know the answer is a resounding 'no'. There is always going to be a difference in the way produce is perceived and what it botanically is. As of right now, I have absolutely no qualms about putting strawberries (accessory fruit) in my berry basket.

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#7
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 12:58 PM

What are blueberries? I've heard they come in all forms and sizes....starting with a lowly bush (my favourite and one I've been munching on since July) and ending up with a tall tree. They are also found in the central and northern latitudes around the world.

Is the blueberry an ancient species?

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#9
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 1:20 PM

Courtesy of Wikipedia:

Blueberries are flowering plants in the genus Vaccinium, sect. Cyanococcus. The species are native only to North America. They are shrubs varying in size from 10 cm tall to 4 m tall; the smaller species are known as "lowbush blueberries" (synonymous with "wild"), and the larger species as "highbush blueberries". The leaves can be either deciduous or evergreen, ovate to lanceolate, and from 1–8 cm long and 0.5–3.5 cm broad. The flowers are bell-shaped, white, pale pink or red, sometimes tinged greenish.

The fruit is a false berry 5–16 mm diameter with a flared "crown" at the end; they are pale greenish at first, then reddish-purple, and finally indigo on ripening. They have a sweet taste when mature, with variable acidity. Blueberry bushes typically bear fruit from May through October in the Northern Hemisphere; "blueberry season" peaks in July, which is National Blueberry Month in the United States and Canada.

I don't know how ancient they are, but they seem to be an extremely beneficial food.

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#11
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 4:22 PM

According to Wiki maybe somebody should tell the Russkis that what they've been eatin' ain't blueberry even though it sure looks and tastes like the same. Eastern Siberia is literally covered in bushes impersonating our blueberries!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccinium .........it's huge!

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#41
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 1:08 PM

I think it is a "Casabah" Melon you are referring to.

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#45
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/30/2008 4:49 AM
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#46
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/30/2008 6:12 AM

How true! In your link, the first paragraph says "true canalopes are not netted". But following the link in the previous sentence, there it says to look for a strong netting for premium cantalope. How bizarre...

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#47
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/30/2008 7:20 AM

What puzzles me is finding them in the sea ! This is all going to end up nuts......

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#48
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/30/2008 7:30 AM

Did you shave it before posting?

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#49
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/30/2008 2:53 PM

ROFL !

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#10

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 4:10 PM

Dang, berries were my favorite type of fruit but I guess all the good ones are really false-berries.

Don't forget about Booberry and Frankenberry!

My only question is which catagory does burberry and dingleberry fall into?

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#12
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 4:32 PM

A most relevant question and very astute of you Kaplin!

These berries grow on marketing trees and are harvested by advertizers to sell to parents via kids watching tv cartoons.

I think the genus is called Insipidus®

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#14
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 4:58 PM

Burberry falls into the genus/species Fashionus obsoletus. Dingleberries I'm not so sure about, but probably a species of the genus Uranus.

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#15
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 5:10 PM

Well put! I'dd add that these are all part and parcel of Parentia Imbecillus

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#16
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/28/2008 11:17 PM

Perfectly awful!

Berries originate from ovarian tissue? Dingleberries originate adjacent to rectal tissue which can be scranus(male) or taint(female), proper. I have heard that arse is considered prison vagina, which probably still lacks ovaries, so the dingle cannot be a true berry, right?

Oh, awful!

I shouldn't have. Lord, I appologize.

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#28
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 9:20 AM

Couldn't have sed it better meself............

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#31
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 10:23 AM

So the dingle-, much like the blue- and the bur- are false berries. Well, ain't that the berries!

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#20

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 7:57 AM

you forgot one, im sure a couple, but the one off of the top of my head is pineapple.

yes, the pineapple is a berry.

=]

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#32
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 10:25 AM

And it's on the top of your head because...oh, you must be going dancing with the lady in post #25!

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#35
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 10:40 AM

Virtual High five for that keen insight!

milo

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#38
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 12:12 PM

Yowzah! Slip me some skin, kin!

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#33
In reply to #20

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 10:36 AM

Sigh, Pineapple is a multiple fruit according to Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berry

Wiki has been spot on with classifications so far... Pineapple is not a true berry.

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#36
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 10:42 AM

So are you telling us that pineapples multiply by dividing????

milo

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#21

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 8:09 AM

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/what-s-name-that-which-we-call-rose

I'm going to keep calling my fruits, vegetables, and berries what I've always called them. But it's an interesting topic.

Vegetables: not sweet

Fruits: sweet

Berries: small, eat with one bite, sweet.

Besides, I can't see me ordering a "pseudocarp shortcake", (the alliteration is still there though).

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#23

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 8:31 AM

The more I learn, the more confused I get !

I doubt that anybody out there could score 100% on a test about classifying fruit and veg !

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#24
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it Logical

10/29/2008 8:39 AM

And the more I see, the more I see there is to see. - John Sebastian

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#25
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Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 8:43 AM

I'll bet she could:

milo

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#27
In reply to #25

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 9:18 AM

Congrats Milo........consider yourself blessed.......you just made Jaxys hit list.

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#39
In reply to #27

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 12:17 PM

If Jaxy was at the recent Pumpkin Chuckin', that may or may not be a good thing ! I seen some recent pics, and one of 'em looks very familiar . Gourd on Bonnet !!

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 12:56 PM

I wish I could have been there, it sounded really fun. Sorry to disappoint, but you didn't see me in any of the pictures.

I feel as though you are under the impression that you are safe

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#44
In reply to #40

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/30/2008 4:43 AM

ROFL* ! Do you guys get those photo-booths where you can select it to give a drawing style image ? Luckily there isn't one near me, else I'd be skipping along there with a certain #3 to test a theory.........

*

I shall now behave, and scroll back to the topic. Honest !

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#42
In reply to #39

Re: Having '-berry' in the Name Doesn’t Make it a Berry

10/29/2008 4:45 PM

Uh oh........this has the makings of a Victorian intrigue..............a la detonationne!

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Users who posted comments:

agua_doc (1); Anonymous Poster (1); Bricktop (1); Duckinthepond (14); EnviroMan (13); Jaxy (3); Kaplin (1); Kilgore Trout (1); Kris (6); Milo (6); Scapolie (1); Sharkles (1)

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