Should Police ID Internet and Wi-Fi Users?

I think they already do this in Italy. On a visit last year, I had to produce my passport to use the Wi-Fi in the hotel. Also had to show it to the internet terminal camera at the airport before it would give me access.

Another way of looking at it;

"Give me Liberty, or give me death" - Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775

Those who refuse to discipline themselves will have discipline enforced on them from someone else. Taught me by my father

excellent analogy. . . . .grasshopper.

It will only catch the stupid and create more data to mine. Free encryption software can take months of CPU time to break. Once quantum computing reduces this time it will be a few years until someone makes a quantum USB key that will level the field.

Cost effective for the businesses or government? No! The Banks will steal from the government, renaming a bonus and $50 billion schemes will not be even detected. The little crooks will soon realize better ways to send data. Big brother takes back another privilege.

They create a smoke screen while the $4 trillion in fraudulent schemes by the government and banks goes un punished.

All government and bank e-mails and memos should be stored for ten years to aid in prosecution of our public masters who continue to abuse our system.

Seems like it'd be a good time to bring out even more distractions. Let's see what worked last time, I know - Gay marriage, immigration, legalisation of drugs.

The problem with being cynical is that you're so rarely surprised.

The problem with being cynical is that you're so rarely surprised.

I know, I had my rose colored glasses knocked off. Was not pretty. Was a Disney Kid, the good guys always win etc. etc.

You can add foreclosed mortgages when the banks already voided the contract by selling it in an illegal scheme (bundled securities). Foreclosure would now be fraud.

Brad

1984 is finally happening, Big Brother is watching you!

Call it how you want but after all I have no problem with disclosing who I'm at all.

I'm doing nothing illegal nor immoral, so I'm of no interest of big brother.

But those who are faced with the backside of incognito behavior love to be able to know who calls them at 3AM or sends mails with indecent photo-shopped pictures to their relatives and colleagues.

The internet has created an environment for criminals and it is time to start creating systems which enable the police to stop some of them.

The real top criminals will find way's to get around, but they normally don't bother people like you and me so for us this is a good thing.

In France it is even illegal to encrypt messages over public systems, if the police finds out that you are sending uncrackable messages you can simply be punished for doing it. They will not scan the networks for encrypted messages but if they find out while tapping the phone and e-mail of a narcotic dealer he hangs.

In Belgium it is illegal to use telecommunication systems without acknowledgement of the owner/operator. So if you use the open wireless access point of your neighbor to surf and do nasty things, simply the fact that you went over this system without the owner knowing is illegal. Your neighbor can only be asked to protect his network, he doesn't need to do it for you to be illegal.

Are these laws wrong and big brother is watching you? No they are simply the results of clever politicians who have worked out descriptions and systems which will face the evolution of technology. Not limiting the evolution or use of technology itself but enabling the law enforcement to pick out the rotten bits.

I Have no problem with laws that protect the individual, but often these laws can also be used by the government or large corporation against the "normal" people

once the privacy of the common people start to erode where does it stop?

How do i know that my country(or company) does not use my information for nefarious deeds?

like forgetting your payment once and be set unknowingly on a blacklist

Good morning epke (evening for you)

Gathering data of people is done by millions of organisations.

Many of the systems we even encourage: we all have cards of shops as being a good customer. These shops do collect data which is far much more intimate than what we send through by mail. (the log what you buy, to send you specific offers)

But as we get a deduction of price we even like those cards.

It is better for the government to regulate these practices. These laws block activities of some, then they jump on the freedom acts an encourage others to start protesting.

Gwen, you might think you are doing nothing illegal or immoral but if the Nazis took over again would they agree? Not all governments are as enlightened as the one in Belgium now.

This kind of intrusion sounds like nothing except a nuisance until the rules change. But then it is too late.

The other problem is that this will pretty much kill wifi in a lot of locations as the owners will not want to be responsible for a customer doing something on their LAN that brings the authorities around. That is not going to help commerce at all.

IMHO, this is just congress trying to take more control under the banner of "safety." It's similar to something a dictatorship would do to stifle dissent. It is unacceptable.

And if they sell my purchasing data to other online shops then i consider it a breach of my privacy.

I have a lot of accounts on the internet and most are not on my true name because i had some bad experience with that.

And as i am from Holland, i have a big distrust to my government who jumped on the terrorist scare bandwagon and joined the war "effort" even when most of the public was against it.

Have we forgotten the lesson the French showed us during the French Revolution? Every now and then we must rise up and lop off the heads off the elite to show them who really is in power. (but people have the comforts now and have become docile)

Could copy write your personal data and then charge them with infringement.

You'll spend lot'o cash 'n time enforcing it too

Not if you learn common law and some business law the key is to win prejudicially then file liens on assets. Done correctly only a jury or full payment can remove the lien. And if your lien proceeds the bankruptcy you get first cut before the tax-man

Oh yeah you you get to collect your own legal fees. Mine run $100 an hour plus expenses.

Oh yeah I remember doing that wow that was a while ago. What an incredible show stopper chip that is

"I'm doing nothing illegal nor immoral, so I'm of no interest of big brother."

In Belgium it might be fine now but if you were to say that in most places you have to add the word "yet" to the end of it. Eventually everything will be made illegal on some level so that everyone is breaking the law and is programmed to feel "guilt". That way they can have things held against them to ensure their compliance and live a life of fear.

You should read my other reply: most people have no problem with sharing very intimate details as long as they are paid for it.

But as soon as it only costs money and reduces flexibility they have a problem with it.

I'm looking into this problem from the side of stalked women and sleep deprived neighbors. The spam problem would also be solved if it were impossible to send a mail in someone elses name.

Thousands if not millions of people would really be helped out if anonimousity in telecommunications could be banned.

Being a positive guy I learned to look into facts and rules from all sides (that is why I didn't fit in the school system) and look into the wheighted value of pro and contra.

Yes, that is true that people get paid for it, that is what allows it to stay voluntary. As soon as police/govt/regulation come into play it will not be voluntary, it will be forced, you will not be paid for it, you will taxed more to fund the program.

There will always be people open enough to share every intimate detail and that is fine, but that does not mean I/you should be forced to. I don't even have a bonus card in my real name at the grocery store.

The spam problem would not be solved, it would simply come via another route. It is like saying that alcohol abuse would go away if you banned alcohol, how well did that turn out in the US?

Thousands of people could be helped while billions would become even more enslaved.

If something like this were to pass everyone would just be working from encrypted proxies.

This type of thing along with proposed laws like the Fairness Doctrine are only created to stifle free speech and the sharing of opinions and ideas that do not fall in line with where some people want them.

So you think all aspects of freedom should be guaranteed, wow what a concept I think I think point is should the police be allowed wanton purview.

Shhh...maybe you know too much already....be careful

are all our keystrokes monitored even before editing

data whsing maybe as profitable as food additives

Trust me, the US is a democracy. We get what we deserve.

Actually, it's a corporate oligarchy.

HI There

GA to both of you. We had a Republic until the people failed their responsibility in keeping it and now we have a plutocracy or corporate oligarchy as you called it. I think it was Mussolini who said fascism is the perfect marriage between private industry and government.

In short NO!

"Banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. "

Thomas Jefferson

it is supposed to be a constitutional republic but we as a people started to end the experiment of true freedom almost 100 years ago.

Nah! We the people were overlooked with and obscure wrinkle in the fabric of the Senate at that time.

You guys over there are all so down . Over here, we have our wonderful George Bu Gordon Brown to inspire us , so we're all happy and never complain . Stiff upper lip, & all that shi .

Maybe your big mistake was giving yourselves a written Constitution. Without it, youse couldn't moan about your constitutional rights, 'cause you wouldn't have any - like us happy folks !

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"Without it, youse couldn't moan about your constitutional rights, 'cause you wouldn't have any"

On that note we are converging with you!

Yes We have a written Constitution. Its just to bad that the people in power don't know how to read the thing.

I laugh every time I hear a Politician get sworn into to office when they swear to "Uphold the Constitution of the United States of America".

Do any of them actually know what it says?

One of the first things to do if you have issues with a politician is to check out their swearing in very carefully. Most have not followed to the letter of the law and lose their immunity in doing so. Judges are notorious for this. If they have, they are now culpable for violations to the Constitution. When in court they will ignore your rights because you are not a party/signor to the document but they are sworn to uphold it to your benefit. Treason for violation of the Constitution is one of the very few things any public official is not immune from.

But the American couch potato (conformist dependant) does nothing because the government is always right.

Brad

In France it is even illegal to encrypt messages over public systems, if the police finds out that you are sending uncrackable messages you can simply be punished for doing it.

That is under the assumption they can tell it is encrypted. Prisons have problems with coded letters on paper. They even suspect certain individuals but can not tell. e-mail is no different only allows more diversity.

Brad

Hello,

I gave a GA to you for articulating the points but don't you think electronic communications should have greater security than a postcard in the snail mail?

Would it be satisfactory to allow a level of complete transparency and other graduated levels of encrypted correspondence as available in snail mail?

Yes we in the US of A have all those protections also.

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe.

Thomas Jefferson

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.

Thomas Jefferson

Here in Canada, I hunt. Therefore, my rifle is registered with the appropriate (?) government agencies. I am not doing anything illegal or immoral, but you bet that the government is interested in knowing! Remember the poem, from WWII? It ends something like this :"When they came for me, I yelled but there wasn't anybody left to hear me".

There is a bloody good reason to make it very difficult to posses a gun.

Just look to what happens weekly in the US and last week in Germany again: it was way to easy to have guns so such things happen.

Guns don't shoot people, people shoot people. Automobiles, doctors and bad water are all incomparably more dangerous. Guns used by stupid and/or violent people just make better headlines.

But people without guns don't walk into schools and shoot people.

No they walk into malls in countries or states that don't have guns and kill people.

The lowest crime rate in the US is in a town that is mandated for you to have a gun in your house. The local law enforcement complains of boredom.

What the Second Amendment is really for!

Watch the senator's faces in congress.

Brad

I'll concede that if there were no guns on Earth these events would not happen. So, if all guns could be wiped out all at once I'd gladly go along. This is not going to happen. Who do you trust to be your tyrant? Although tragic, death by guns and, more so school shootings, are statically insignificant in the cause of death for humans. These aberrations are symptoms of a sickness within society which runs much deeper than the event itself. A curious parallel in these shootings (school and workplace) is that the shooters all (in every account I've looked into) are on anti-anxiety/depression medications......

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Thomas Jefferson

I'll concede that if there were no guns on Earth these events would not happen.

I don't! They would just resort to something different. Like -Drive a car threw the park over everyone or some other stupid venting of frustration that our system ignores.

Actually the gun is a compact storage of energy that accelerates small masses. There are much worse things in your kitchen.

Brad

Hi there,

I agree. I didn't say people wouldn't kill each other, we just couldn't shoot each other with a chemically accelerated projectile. I'm an archery person, personally. But there is no way in hell I trust the gov to 'protect' me or feel they should have any registration info with regards to my guns (or anything else). I know the brits have gone so far as to try to ban knives with points.... riduculous. UV, one day we will have (take) the Republic back.

one day we will have (take) the Republic back.

And the public masters that stole our money and liberty fear that very thing.

These things did happen and will happen even if guns did not exist.

Recently a lunatic killed two baby's and a nurse with a knife. It was a perfect protected daycare center. He had to fight himself past the entrance (the nurse) and could only kill two baby's due the high speed medical care organised and took off (more than 10 baby's needed life saving surgery)

It is impossible here to go to a shop and buy a gun. So he had to use kitchen knifes. And it that would be impossible such a person would start killing with it's bare hands. These kind of things will always exist.

But we are going the wrong side: remember why I agree on the government knowing who id behind a telecommunication user: way more people benefit from it than getting in problem due it.

No.

All of you are now under suspicion according to the MIAC Report.

We need to find a patsy to take the fall for all of us. . . . . . I wonder what Del is doing?

NO! How is that any different than law enforcement officials listening in on telephone conversations or opening our mail and reading it?

As long as "we, the people" have a web-access to cameras and logs monitoring the activities of the law enforcement agencies, and their masters, fine by me. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.