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Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/07/2015 11:37 AM

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:-

- Knowing when to come in out of the rain;

- Why the early bird gets the worm;

- Life isn't always fair;

- And maybe it was my fault.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children.

It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death, -by his parents, Truth and Trust, -by his wife, Discretion,

-by his daughter, Responsibility, -and by his son, Reason.

He is survived by his 5 stepbrothers;-

- I Know My Rights
- I Want It Now
- Someone Else Is To Blame
- I'm A Victim

- Pay me for Doing Nothing

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

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#82
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Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/12/2015 9:58 AM

From your #80, it looks like a possibility. Just needs a response from AG!

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#97
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Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/13/2015 10:58 AM

In response to the suggestion

In certain circumstances that would be an appropriate thing to do. I subscribe to the theory (as many CR4 members do) that their is good in everyone, you just might have to look harder in some people.

Also, "I'm a lover not a fighter"!

"it's asking too much for the guys (not you in particular) in this rancorous exchange, and in thread Rear View Mirror, might kiss and make up?" would be a good suggestion in many other situations BUT----->

Not with the lips that I kiss my wife with, that would be her grounds for divorce!

Not even my dogs lips! We love her too much! She might euthanize us!

Not with the lips I eat with.

Maybe a north bound mule would offer its south end.

I don't want to sound vicious or unreasonable but even I have some minimal standards, no matter now low they are, that I must uphold.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#99
In reply to #97

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/13/2015 11:27 AM

I meant it symbolically. We can't actually kiss on line.

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#80
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Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/12/2015 9:15 AM

Bravo, Old Salt. I almost teared up! You are a Mensch! Salt of the Earth! A man among men.

Before we write off our dear friend Andy Germany, I offer this: Thank you Andy for calling me a racist! It confirms (by your projection) that you and I have something in common! We are all bigots in our own way (google it and listen to the words of Morgan Freeman. - even a broken clock is right twice a day).

Also Andy, remember this: Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.

I forgive you Andy, for calling me the things you called me, and I now turn the other cheek. I only further ask that you forigve the insults I placed upon you, rather than reasoning with you sensibly. Please forgive.

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#91
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Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/12/2015 5:15 PM

Actually, I posted it as an interesting topic for general discussion, to see who would jump in with both feet before thinking..

Some did!! I am still laughing at that!!

It obviously got a lot of people hot under the collar, which was partly my aim too......

It certainly makes ones opinions very obvious!!! I am sure you must agree with that!!

Many here have "outed" themselves as being able to shout scream and be rude, to post wild totally inaccurate claims, and never ever post a link to support their (wild) claims.......because there are none of course....as well as the belief in owning hand guns for self protection.....

I would have thought that the NRA web pages might have supplied some infos in that direction, but apparently not!!

The more these people shout and scream,the less the likelihood of getting a valid link from them it would seem!!!

You are a prime example......you always were!!! Nothing new there......too old to change maybe?

Comfort yourself with the fact that you are not alone!!

You all should try REAL FACTS.....Fom my personal take, easy to find and use IF FACTS......not dreams!

By the way, I stay by my claim that I (and some others, quieter, cleverer and far better informed than I) believe that the USA is heading for a disaster, that will "explode" a! some undefined point in the future....

Both, sorry, ALL of us here will simply have to wait and see for the IF and the WHEN!....

I am not here to try and make friends, I am here to help anyone who needs to learn the truth, about anything.....

Do have a great day!!

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#79
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Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/12/2015 9:05 AM

You know, Andy, you used to be one of my favorites on here, and I always looked forward to reading your responses. It seems that you have absolutely gone unglued. Calm down. Go get a rabies shot, or something, take a drink, maybe several.

When did you start hating on the United States of America? BTW, Britain would never have survived BoB without help from the Merchant Marine fleet from the U.S., and Roosevelt did a great deal in working with Churchill to make sure the British Army, the Home Defense, the Royal Navy had such goods as they needed to hold out.

Also, one of the largest "blunders" was Hitler and Goering calling off the bombing of the British airfields and redirecting the Ju-88's, and the Heinkel 111's to bomb London.

Britain may have been the last European hold-out, and Thank God in Heaven for that, but she did not stand entirely alone, and neither did the U.S.S.R. through the lend-lease program, the Soviet mass industry war manufacturing nonwithstanding. Even the Soviet T-34 tank was basically handed to them from an American design that (the stupid) JCOS at the Pentagon rejected for the Sherman.

What I will never understand is your foaming at the mouth phobia of hand-guns. They are a tool, an inanimate object, yet you seem to empower them with a demonic force. No such spirits exist to my knowledge, but even if they do, my God (who is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and eternal) has them in captivity in hell (with Hitler).

By the way, tell your crap about handguns being useless to a downed pilot, or to the French Resistance Fighters of WWII. Or tell it to the American soldiers who fought the heroin induced rage of the hordes of Chinese in the wintery hills of Korea, or to the U.S. Marines who fought in hand-to-hand combat, or very close quarter raids with the Japanese on Io Jima. (Don't you dare insult these men, who were little more than boys at the time.) My neighbor is a Marine veteran who fought on Io Jima. Try and tell him that handguns are useless. I have no further adjectives for you.

BTW, what military did you ever serve with? What do you actually know about war? I suspect that you know little or nothing about it.

Do not tread on me! You can google that statement and find it was a war banner of the colonies during the revolution against the heavy-handed British. Have you not learned your lesson? We have been your friends even after your failed invasion of the new nation of the United States of America in the early 19th Century. IF you no longer care for this friendship, or no longer feel the need to be allies, then it is you who will miss out, and be dumped on the ash-heap, and not by our hand.

America is a country that sheds the blood of our young patriotic soldiers in order that others may live, to liberate, set free, and rescue the oppressed peoples of this world. Yet you have the unmitigated gall to accuse us! Return to your pit, O viper, where is your sting? America the beloved, peace loving, free people (of all the peoples of this earth) will be here waiting with open arms when you come to your senses.

We will never accept your European way of thinking, your governments that sequester power only to the select few, the vast hoarding of wealth by the few, and the evil manipulation only for the sake of power over the masses. Here we have a different idea, one you probably cannot fathom - it is called liberty, freedom of speech, freedom of religion (not from religion), the right to bear arms, and a representative republic in the truest sense. We also live by the rule of law, contrary to how some of the present administration appears to operation outside the law.

When all of this raging of the heathen comes to a halt, there will be peace in the world, each man will live in the shade of his own vinyard, and his fig trees will prosper, and there will be oil and bread enough for all. The earth is a generous world.

When all these things come to pass, then it will truly be said, "This was our finest hour".

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#83
In reply to #79

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/12/2015 2:11 PM

Looking at my sign you understand that I am a 101% European. I lived and worked in 4 countries in Europe getting in touch with at least people from 12 countries so that I know Europe in the broad meaning of this word.

However because I worked many years with Americans, because I was in the US many times and in different parts (unfortunately not on the west coast) I have an other image of America and Americans than most Europeans. I understand American way of thinking which many people from Europe do not. this does not mean that I accept all without a critical look.

The problem is valid for both sides people do not have the knowledge, the direct contact over years and judge too often based on what they read or hear. One cannot understand the way the other thinks until a true, open and unbiased exchange of thoughts and ideas is done. And broad contact does not exist!

In Europe American sacrifice is not always understood, in America the pressure of history on the European behavior is as well not understood.

As long as we do not make the effort to try to understand the why's it will not be possible to appreciate the other the right way.

I do not know how the situation did change in the states but I remember that 1971 when I was on a round trip for the first time a friend of mine gave me a statistic which said that over 85% of the people in a big middle west town did not travel more than 100 miles from downtown in their whole life, only 0.25% went abroad out of duty.

This is valid as well for many parts in Europe where Americans are judged through the prism of a tourist. This does not correspond to the true image and it will not change easy because of negative influence of politics.

Sorry I was bit too long but I am also sorry to read such an exchange on CR4.

I thought that we are, due to the international character of CR4, over such discussions.

I sincerely hope that in the future we can be BETTER please do not forget that everything can be said without insulting the other if you do not agree with what he said.

I am asking myself who would be now in a hospital if the 2 would have been on same spot ?

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#86
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Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/12/2015 4:06 PM

No one would be, or is going to the hospital. Now, if we added beer and schnitzel, it would just be a loud party.

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#84
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Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/12/2015 2:59 PM

OK, I normally don't go into specifics regarding my military activity… but the comments made in post 71 are in need of a first-hand-knowledge perspective…

You do not liberate or take control of a town until you put boots on ground and clear every building. In the good old days - we 'cleared' a building by shooting it with a tank, bazooka, mortars or some other type of heavy ordnance. Presently, we try to invoke the least amount of damage to the infrastructure as possible so we clear room by room by room and often engage in close-quarters combat. The rife is still the primary weapon but more times than not we utilize our 9mm.

And we use our 9mm way more than you would think… in fact, the Army is soon to be switching to a different weapon/ammo with more knock-down power and a better Terminal Performance. These changes originated from field complaints, field complaints originate from field use. Boots-on-Ground Soldiers use hand guns quite a bit… not sure what wars you've fought in or been a part of, but here are some my credentials:

  • Honduras - Operation Golden Pheasant
  • Panama - Operation Nimrod Dancer / Just Cause
  • Persian Gulf - Operation Desert Storm / Shield / Sword
  • Afghanistan War - 1 deployment
  • Iraq War - 3 deployments

Now, granted… terminal engagement between me and enemy personnel was mostly negligible in most of those earlier operations… but in recent years in Afghanistan and Iraq - I have had my fill of close-quarters combat and have utilized my 9mm more than I care to remember; those memories are up close and personal.

Until you've been on foot patrol in Sadr City, turned a corner and bumped into an insurgent, pushed off, drawn and put three rounds in their head at about 5' - don't speak to the value of a hand-gun in a war-time situation.

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#85
In reply to #84

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/12/2015 3:32 PM

As an American, you are to be commended for your service to your country and the sacrifices that you endured. As most of us know experience is the best teacher. You no doubt have an immense amount of it. No one really knows what it is like to be in a fox hole with all its "any moment now" life threatening things until he/she has been in one at war. Again thank you for your sacrifices to us and your country.

As a Nam vet I admire you who are confronted with a whole new type of war. I still shake the hand and say "Thank You For All Your Have Done Me and Our Country" of military personnel as I travel through transportation center and any other place it is appropriate.

This is not only appropriate for those from the USA but any country's military personnel. How about those across the pond making this an epidemic.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#88
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Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/12/2015 4:12 PM

Thanks Old Salt... and many thanks to you as well for your Service! I can never apologize enough for the lack of appreciation and understanding veterans of that war received. It was a dark part in our history - one I hope is never repeated. Regardless of one's personal feelings towards our current President, he gave a pretty good speech back in 2012, one whose transcript I have saved and read every year, or when the occasion is right... and I think this occasion is right:

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

The following are remarks President Obama delivered May 28, 2012, at Memorial Day ceremonies at the Vietnam War Memorial in Washington, D.C.:

"Good afternoon, everybody. Chuck, thank you for your words and your friendship and your life of service. Veterans of the Vietnam War, families, friends, distinguished guests. I know it is hot. (Laughter.) But you are here -- to honor your loved ones. And Michelle and I could not be more honored to be here with you.

It speaks to the complexity of America's time in Vietnam that, even now, historians cannot agree on precisely when the war began. American advisors had served there, and died there, as early as the mid-'50s. Major combat operations would not begin until the mid-'60s. But if any year in between illustrated the changing nature of our involvement, it was 1962.

It was January, in Saigon. Our Army pilots strapped on their helmets and boarded their helicopters. They lifted off, raced over treetops carrying South Vietnamese troops. It was a single raid against an enemy stronghold just a few miles into the jungle -- but it was one of America's first major operations in that faraway land.

Fifty years later, we come to this wall -- to this sacred place -- to remember. We can step towards its granite wall and reach out, touch a name. Today is Memorial Day, when we recall all those who gave everything in the darkness of war so we could stand here in the glory of spring. And today begins the 50th commemoration of our war in Vietnam. We honor each of those names etched in stone -- 58,282 American patriots. We salute all who served with them. And we stand with the families who love them still.

For years you've come here, to be with them once more. And in the simple things you've left behind -- your offerings, your mementos, your gifts -- we get a glimpse of the lives they led. The blanket that covered him as a baby. The baseball bat he swung as a boy. A wedding ring. The photo of the grandchild he never met. The boots he wore, still caked in mud. The medals she earned, still shining. And, of course, some of the things left here have special meaning, known only to the veterans -- a can of beer; a packet of M&Ms; a container of Spam; an old field ration -- still good, still awful. (Laughter.)

It's here we feel the depth of your sacrifice. And here we see a piece of our larger American story. Our Founders -- in their genius -- gave us a task. They set out to make a more perfect union. And so it falls to every generation to carry on that work. To keep moving forward. To overcome a sometimes painful past. To keep striving for our ideals.

And one of the most painful chapters in our history was Vietnam -- most particularly, how we treated our troops who served there. You were often blamed for a war you didn't start, when you should have been commended for serving your country with valor. (Applause.) You were sometimes blamed for misdeeds of a few, when the honorable service of the many should have been praised. You came home and sometimes were denigrated, when you should have been celebrated. It was a national shame, a disgrace that should have never happened. And that's why here today we resolve that it will not happen again. (Applause.)

And so a central part of this 50th anniversary will be to tell your story as it should have been told all along. It's another chance to set the record straight. That's one more way we keep perfecting our Union -- setting the record straight. And it starts today. Because history will honor your service, and your names will join a story of service that stretches back two centuries.

Let us tell the story of a generation of service members -- every color, every creed, rich, poor, officer and enlisted -- who served with just as much patriotism and honor as any before you. Let's never forget that most of those who served in Vietnam did so by choice. So many of you volunteered. Your country was at war, and you said, "send me." That includes our women in Vietnam -- every one of you a volunteer. (Applause.) Those who were drafted, they, too, went and carried their burden -- you served; you did your duty.

You persevered though some of the most brutal conditions ever faced by Americans in war. The suffocating heat. The drenching monsoon rains. An enemy that could come out of nowhere and vanish just as quickly. Some of the most intense urban combat in history, and battles for a single hill that could rage for weeks. Let it be said -- in those hellholes like Briarpatch, and the Zoo and the Hanoi Hilton -- our Vietnam POWs didn't simply endure; you wrote one of the most extraordinary stories of bravery and integrity in the annals of military history. (Applause.)

As a nation, we've long celebrated the courage of our forces at Normandy and Iwo Jima, the Pusan Perimeter and Heartbreak Ridge. So let us also speak of your courage -- at Hue and Khe Sanh, at Tan Son Nhut and Saigon, from Hamburger Hill to Rolling Thunder. All too often it's forgotten that you, our troops in Vietnam, won every major battle you fought in. (Applause.)

When you came home, I know many of you put your medals away -- tucked them in a drawer, or in a box in the closet. You went on with your lives -- started families and pursued careers. A lot of you didn't talk too much about your service. As a consequence, this nation has not always fully appreciated the chapter of your lives that came next.

So let us also tell a story of a generation that came home, and how -- even though some Americans turned their back on you -- you never turned your back on America. (Applause.) Like generations before you, you took off the uniform, but you never stopped serving. You became teachers and police officers and nurses -- the folks we count on every single day. You became entrepreneurs, running companies and pioneering industries that changed the world. You became leaders and public servants, from town halls to Capitol Hill -- lifting up our communities, our states, our nation.

You reminded us what it was like to serve, what it meant to serve. Those of you who stayed in uniform, you rose through the ranks, became leaders in every service, learned from your experience in Vietnam and rebuilt our military into the finest force that the world has ever known. (Applause.) And let's remember all those Vietnam veterans who came back and served again -- in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. You did not stop serving. (Applause.)

Even as you succeeded in all these endeavors, you did something more -- maybe the most important thing you did -- you looked after each other. When your government didn't live up to its responsibilities, you spoke out -- fighting for the care and benefits you had earned, and, over time, transforming the VA. And, of course, one of these Vietnam veterans is now our outstanding Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Ric Shinseki. (Applause.)

You looked after one another. You cared for one another. People weren't always talking about PTSD at the time -- you understood it, and you were there for each other. Just as importantly, you didn't just take care of your own, you cared for those that followed. You've made it your mission to make sure today's troops get the respect and support that all too often you did not receive. (Applause.)

Because of you, because our Vietnam veterans led the charge, the Post-9/11 GI Bill is helping hundreds of thousands of today's veterans go to college and pursue their dreams. (Applause.) Because of you, because you didn't let us forget, at our airports, our returning troops get off the airplane and you are there to shake their hands. (Applause.) Because of you, across America, communities have welcomed home our forces from Iraq. And when our troops return from Afghanistan, America will give this entire 9/11 Generation the welcome home they deserve. That happened in part because of you. (Applause.)

This is the story of our Vietnam service members -- the story that needs to be told. This is what this 50th anniversary is all about. It's another opportunity to say to our Vietnam veterans what we should have been saying from the beginning: You did your job. You served with honor. You made us proud. You came home and you helped build the America that we love and that we cherish.

So here today, it must be said -- you have earned your place among the greatest generations. At this time, I would ask all our Vietnam veterans, those of you who can stand, to please stand, all those already standing, raise your hands -- as we say those simple words which always greet our troops when they come home from here on out: Welcome home. (Applause.) Welcome home. Welcome home. Welcome home. Thank you. We appreciate you. Welcome home. (Applause.)

Today, we're calling on all Americans, and every segment of our society, to join this effort. Everybody can do something. Five decades removed from a time of division among Americans, this anniversary can remind us of what we share as Americans. That includes honoring our Vietnam veterans by never forgetting the lessons of that war.

So let us resolve that when America sends our sons and daughters into harm's way, we will always give them a clear mission; we will always give them a sound strategy; we will give them the equipment they need to get the job done. We will have their backs. (Applause.) We will resolve that leaders will be candid about the risks and about progress -- and have a plan to bring our troops home, with honor.

Let us resolve to never forget the costs of war, including the terrible loss of innocent civilians -- not just in Vietnam, but in all wars. For we know that while your sacrifice and service is the very definition of glory, war itself is not glorious. We hate war. When we fight, we do so to protect ourselves because it's necessary.

Let's resolve that in our democracy we can debate and disagree -- even in a time of war. But let us never use patriotism as a political sword. Patriots can support a war; patriots can oppose a war. And whatever our view, let us always stand united in support of our troops, who we placed in harm's way. (Applause.) That is our solemn obligation. (Applause.)

Let's resolve to take care of our veterans as well as they've taken care of us -- not just talk, but actions. Not just in the first five years after a war, but the first five decades. For our Vietnam veterans, this means the disability benefits for diseases connected to Agent Orange. It means job opportunities and mental health care to help you stand tall again. It means ending the tragedy of veterans' homelessness, so that every veteran who has fought for America has a home in America. You shouldn't have to fight for a roof over your heads when you fought on behalf of the country that you love. (Applause.)

And when an American does not come back -- including the 1,666 Americans still missing from the Vietnam War -- let us resolve to do everything in our power to bring them home. This is our solemn promise to mothers like Sarah Shay who joins us today, 93 years old, who has honored her son, Major Donald Shay, Jr., missing in action for 42 years. There she is. Sarah, thank you for your courage. God bless you. (Applause.)

This is the promise we're fulfilling today to the Meroney family of Fayetteville, Arkansas. Forty-three years after he went missing, we can announce that Army Captain Virgil Meroney, III, is coming home, and he will finally rest in peace. (Applause.)

Some have called this war era a scar on our country, but here's what I say. As any wound heals, the tissue around it becomes tougher, becomes stronger than before. And in this sense, finally, we might begin to see the true legacy of Vietnam. Because of Vietnam and our veterans, we now use American power smarter, we honor our military more, we take care of our veterans better. Because of the hard lessons of Vietnam, because of you, America is even stronger than before. (Applause.)

And finally, on this anniversary and all the years to come, let us remember what binds us, as one people. This is important for all of us, whether you fought in the Vietnam War or fought against it, whether you were too young to be shaped by it. It is important that our children understand the sacrifices that were made by your troops in Vietnam; that for them, this is more than just a name in history books. It's important that we know the lesson of a gift once left at this Memorial.

It was towards the end of the day, and most of the tourists and visitors had departed. And there it was -- a football helmet, black with white stripes, and a wristband. And with them was a handwritten note. And it was from a young man, still in high school. And mind you, this was more than two decades after Vietnam. That high school student was born years after the war had already ended. But in that short, handwritten note he captured the reverence -- the bonds between generations -- that bring us here today.

The letter began, "Dear Vietnam Veterans, here are two things from me to you that I think you should have." He explained that it was his helmet from midget football and his wristband from his senior year. So today I want to close with the words he wrote:
In these two pieces of equipment, I was allowed to make mistakes, correct them, grow and mature as a person. However, that was on my battlefield. You didn't get the chance to do that on your battlefield. Some of you were forced to grow up too fast; all of you died too soon. We do have many things in common, though. We both have pride, heart and determination. I'm just sorry you guys had to learn those qualities too fast. That is why I'm giving you what I grew up with. You are true heroes and you will never be forgotten.

That's from a high school kid, born decades after the end of the war. And that captures the spirit that this entire country should embrace.

Veterans, families of the Vietnam War, I know the wounds of war are slow to heal. You know that better than most. But today we take another step. The task of telling your story continues. The work of perfecting our Union goes on. And decades from now, I hope another young American will visit this place and reach out and touch a name. And she'll learn the story of service members -- people she never met, who fought a war she never knew -- and in that moment of understanding and of gratitude and of grace, your legacy will endure. For you are all true heroes and you will all be remembered.
May God bless you. May God bless your families. May God bless our men and women in uniform. And may God bless these United States of America. (Applause.)"

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#96
In reply to #88

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/13/2015 8:54 AM

I don't know who wrote that speech for BHO, but he needs to keep that fellow around. I think that is the only one I have heard worth its salt. Having said that, BHO clearly states only what many of us have thought to say over the years.

To all Vietnam Veterans: Thank you. May the road rise to meet you, and the wind be at your back, may sunlight grace your path, and rain bless your land when it is needed. May your heart no longer be heavy with sorrow for your fallen comrades, but blessed with joy, that the great day is coming when we all will be re-united. In that day, not even one solitary soldier will be lost or missing any more.

Stand ready for that day. Dismissed.

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#87
In reply to #84

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/12/2015 4:10 PM

JavaHead: Thank you sir, for your lengthy record of service to your country! Also, thank you for clarifying the matter about the usefulness of handguns as tools in the hands of trained military, police, home defenders, etc.

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#90
In reply to #87

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/12/2015 5:00 PM

Thanks... I actually got out shortly after Desert Storm and was a fat and happy civilian for awhile. Then 9/11 happened and I took the ruck out of storage...

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#93
In reply to #90

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/12/2015 5:54 PM

Thanks for not including "Home or personal Defense" in any of your excellent posts. You only (correctly) put the military side of such usage.

But do watch the other ones here who are trying to "add" this to your posts when they answer yours.

They are simply getting desperate.....which is of course, compounding the problems....

Though due to the sheer number of armed civilians (legal or not) in the USA and also some similar third world countries too, there may come a day, soon, when to go out of your house reasonably safely in such countries, that it may be a future requirement to be armed!!

Mexico and Argentina bracket the USA in the gun homicide statistics.........

Having lived and worked in SA some years ago, I have seen just how bad it can get (twice the gun Homicide rate of the USA!), going out in the evening with a couple of machine guns in the back of the car and at least two hand guns available.....its really not funny!! This what many there have installed in their cars over the last 10 years or so:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDrzMGdYWZc

Mostly, we just stayed at home/hotel between sunset and sunrise! It was simply too much "aggro" to go out!!!

I hope for all in the USA that it does not come to this.....

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#92
In reply to #84

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/12/2015 5:34 PM

I fully agree with regards a regular or special army.

But we are not talking about Military personnel....at least I wasn't, though someone believed that civilians with only handguns could prevent an invasion!!! WOW!!

I do not understand what military people do that has to do with civilian gun nuts with dozens of handguns and enough ammo available for hundreds of shots for each weapon.

I do not consider rifles and shot guns to be even really "related", as real hunters and marksmen use them....But they might in some countries, where allowed, have a pistol to "finish off" a wounded animal.....but they could do that with a rifle too...they don't NEED a pistol....

Which is why for example, in the UK for some years now, all handguns are completely banned, except for the Police and the Military.....it has proved to be a real (statistically too!) life saver....

Disarm the "Nuts"....

OK?

By the way, your description in your post was not only militarily accurate, but also interesting too, many thanks.... I am sure I am not alone on that point either....

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#106
In reply to #92

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/14/2015 10:38 AM

As a former surveyor and prospector in the northern woods carrying gear in the bush left no room for a rifle or shot gun. A sidearm was the only LOGICAL option. I'm sure there are MANY other occupations that this is the only Logical option for as well. A sidearm is just another tool required of many trades.

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#111
In reply to #106

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/14/2015 1:46 PM

I hear where you come from.

But some people use these handguns for the original purpose, killing people.

Is there a way to allow people who REALLY need one, like yourself, to have them and the others to be not allowed them to have them....

I personally still see that as an almost impossible job!!

Of course, things like Draconian sentences for having an illegal unlicensed weapon, or one with an unregistered barrel, or a hidden weapon, or showing a weapon within town limits, could be (I'm guessing of course!) a start......I am sure there are some further good ideas to prevent guns in the town limits, for those with a legal need.

A GPS controlled lock on a strongbox built into a car for example, would force you to drive out of the town before arming yourself for example.....connected to the burglar alarm with a silent radio alarm system, already in use in quality cars.....gun not in box when entering the town limits, alarm!!!

Guns could have a GPS built in, ll mobiles for some years have them, they are very tiny!!

There have been special electronics around for years allowing only the owner to fire a weapon.....

Every licensed gun to have sample bullets made and registered/photographed, available online for the police. All spare barrels to be also so handled as when they were guns.

This is only a few possible ideas, better heads than mine can puzzle over it, I have not spent any time thinking about it.....why should I?

Have a great day.....

Most of the electronics are already available or even already built in to some modern cars.....

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#112
In reply to #111

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/14/2015 2:08 PM

New York already has laws on the books for sidearms and lawful ownership. Any additional laws only restrict legal, lawful owners. Chicago has a complete ban on handgun ownership yet has one of the highest handgun crime rates in the US. I cannot see how further restricting lawful ownership and use will lessen or lower crime rates when the criminals don't adhere to existing laws or restrictions. IMHO if hand guns were suddenly made illegal to own across the board and seized from legal owners the criminals world wide would still have theirs and crime would rise dramatically with unarmed opposition.

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#117
In reply to #112

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/14/2015 3:02 PM

Basically, you are saying (as I understand it) exactly one of my worries, that it has already gone far too far with gun usage in the USA and it cannot simply be stopped. Too little, too late.

As some people are predicting, it is going to get a lot worse before it gets any better.....some predict 10 years, some longer.

Worrying.

Thanks for your post.

You might want to review some of the following websites as appears that civil unrest is further expected in the USA:-

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jun/12/pentagon-mass-civil-breakdown

http://www.storyleak.com/pentagon-prepping-large-scale-economic-breakdown/

http://www.silverdoctors.com/fund-managers-2015-prediction-us-collapse-huge-increase-in-civil-unrest/

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#121
In reply to #111

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/14/2015 3:52 PM

Since you are in fact a Brit living in Germany, Draconian should be (and probably is) right up your sick alley.

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#123
In reply to #121

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/14/2015 4:30 PM

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

You obviously do not understand EXACTLY what it means!!!!

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

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#109
In reply to #92

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/14/2015 1:08 PM

It has to be that in the UK, the only things dangerous "in the north woods" in Scotland must be deranged hares, mad dogs, and Englishmen. Since I am more Scottish than Irish, more Irish than German, more Cherokee (or maybe Choctaw) than English, I have a built in immunity to being a mad dog or English.

Ruhig aufs der Billige zetsen! (Hack job of German I learned about 40 years ago) Supposed to mean "quiet in the cheap seats!"

Shhhh.....Andy, let it come naturally. Rather than disarm, the "nuts" as you describe them, how about we thank God the squirrels are already disarmed.

The apparent only thing worse than being English or quite mad, is being both, so stop foaming at the mouth already. You have proven your point (that your common sense is dead, not even on life support, already).

Group hug, OK?

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#114
In reply to #109

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/14/2015 2:15 PM

WHAT! NO WEBLINKS AGAIN!!!!

HOW UNUSUAL!!

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#136
In reply to #71
Find in discussion

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/17/2015 3:51 PM

As was previously noted, gun control is all about "control". First it's handguns, then rifles, shotguns, BB guns. Anything that can cause injury, whether deliberate or accidental is subjected to control. There are only two types of people in this world; those who control (or want to control) and those who are under control. Trying to maintain a middle ground is an ongoing battle we are rapidly losing.It may take drastic measures to reverse the effects of government control.

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#137
In reply to #136

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/18/2015 2:40 AM

Sadly.....

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#66
In reply to #53
Find in discussion

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/11/2015 5:04 PM

Are we sure that's a tattoo? It's so detailed that it looks more like a paint job.

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#54
In reply to #52
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Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/10/2015 11:06 AM

Speak about common sense----->

Over 20 years ago I attended one of many courses/seminars in the field of emergency response. One of the other attendees was a firefighter from a major (not to be named lest it embarrass the fire fighters there) city. Since this course was held on 8 consecutive week-ends there was a lot of ethyl alcohol (booze) that flowed. The firefighter was the proud possessor of several tattoos.

On his back was one of a ladder truck with its ladder extended up. He also had a tattoo of a firefighter with a hose in his hands flowing water. Well, he got himself half drunk and we completed the job for him. Took him to an all night tattoo parlor and had another one inked, a building on fire with the ladder reaching for it and the hose aimed at the building. When he woke up the next day he didn't notice it until taking a shower. Despite our predictions he loved it!

Being so proud of his back tattoos, at the urging of several others from his department, he showed us the one adjacent to his crotch. It showed a well placed fire hose adjacent to his male part flowing water. His friends then told us that he said that his wife had a tattoo at the same part of her body depicting a large flame.

He was definitely our candidate for the "Lack of Common Sense" award. As a side note, he was the only one to fail the course even with a second chance at the test. Despite another participant and myself clearly indicating the right answers to him he failed. Said he didn't like some of our answers so he put his own on the paper. I scored a perfect on the test and the other "answer man" got one wrong.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#55

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/10/2015 11:26 AM

I agree with old salt.

Common sense IS NOT DEAD.

It has been pushed to the background by, political correctness, lawyers, expediency, politicians, lack of attention to detail, lawyers, greed/avarice, politicians, corporate board rooms, lobbyists, lawyers, the bell shaped curve, teaching to the test, Google, social media, lawyers, cultural dilution, fanaticism, lawyers, terrorists, politicians, lobbyists, radical Islam and other radical, misguided religious beliefs, intolerance in many forms, lawyers, politicians, outdated American political system, lack of term limits.................................................................................................................

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#60
In reply to #55

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/11/2015 9:03 AM

If one applies statistical frequency analysis to Lyn's answer:

(1)Lawyers

(2) Politicians (all the bad ones are also lawyers)

Lawyer: Law'-yur, from the Latin word lawyer which mean lier.

I think we know what they all have in common, it has something to do with horses, and it ain't horse sense.

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#69
In reply to #60

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/11/2015 5:29 PM

The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers" Henry VI Part II Wasn't a bad idea then or now.

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#124

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/14/2015 5:29 PM

Jumping in just to say the obvious. A weblink may lead you to usefull info, it also may lead you to complete trash info. In no way it is solid proof for anything. Truth is something you might get close, only using smartly and effectively what is available to you, 100% biased, conflicting views that is, appearing logic at first, but not being able to withstand strict logic criticism, having false starting points, logic jumps and flaws for you to explore. You do of course need that dreaded criterion, "common sense", but considering we already declared it dead, we may be talking about a... zombi. Now being super absolute about your opinion on not so clear-cut issues, is equivalent to proof that the logic you used to come to it, suffers. Whatever. S.M.

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#125

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/15/2015 4:05 AM

Hello Andy,

You are right about one thing. This is a very emotional subject.

My link does work - partially. For some reason it doesn't take you to a specific set of stats, however it does lead to the front page of the FBI's stat page, but frankly having looked into it, I don't wish mining those stats on my worst enemy, and you are far from that. If you wish to poke around in there, jse my link and then work through the headers.

Old salt's "gibberish" in post 119 is actually a real link. Boy, I'm glad I didn't have to type it. That's a mouthful!

I'm not going to bother posting any statistics. They are what they are and if you feel uncomfortable with US culture, you don't have to live in it. As Mr Stewart has already said, we regard UN statistics as being suspect, since US independence is anathema to the UN despite the $$$ we pour into their pockets. And yes, skimming money is the keast of the crimes associated with UN officials. No, I won't go into details. it's not my story to tell.

One set of facts I can and will share is my personal experience. I grew up in New Jersey, live there from age 5 through 60. Economic reasons,not choice once I was an adult. NJ is one of the states where it is difficult to purchase firearms and they can only be carried, cased. to official target ranges and back and to hunting areas, and they must be unloaded wjth the ammunition in a separate case. During my adult residency, I experienced 5 separate burglaries, my girlfriend and her family were burglarized at least three times, she was mugged at gunpoint once ,and nearly carjacked. Actual financial losses of more than $15,000. Multiple locks on doors and windows and bars on the windows.

Living here in Virginia, my front door key is a skeleton key and I sometimes don't bother to lock it. My gun collection alone is worth several thousand dollars and the same can be said for my tools, a lot of which live on my front porch. No burglaries, no muggings. The difference? Those same guns you find so alarming. Sure, there are some of both types of crime, usually confined to the more undesirable areas, but nothing like living in and around areas where you can't defend yourself. People walk around with guns all the time in this state, both openly displayed which needs no paperwork and concealed; that takes a license from the state, which means a background check, fingerprinting and a safety course. I just renewed mine three months ago cost? $15.00 for five years. To hear you and the rest of the anti-gun crowd, NJ should be one of the safest places to live and Virginia one of the worst. It's just the reverse. So by all means, live without guns if it makes you happy, I just hope it doesn't backfire on you.

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#127
In reply to #125

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/15/2015 5:25 AM

Firstly I liked your post, makes a lot of sense for the USA. History plays a heavy role in this problem I know...

My original point, which no one in the USA understands, or better said, does not want to understand is that if all handguns were made illegal (as in the UK), and anyone caught with one got a heavy prison sentence (as in the UK), and an even heavier one if caught using it (as in the UK).

There will obviously a "bullet" to bite on till it starts working, (but I cannot see any reason for it to get worse just because the handguns are suddenly illegal. That makes as J.J. says "no sense!" "I am going out to shoot someone before they take my gun off me!!! Naaaaaa!) but once the guns have been handed in and the ones that didn't do that get jailed and fined (hung as well if you like!).

Then it stands to reason that handgun crime would reduce. You cannot shoot anyone with something you don't own and cannot purchase.....But some here believe you can.....exactly as is happening in many inner cities right now....

BUT NOBODY WANTS TO EVEN TALK ABOUT IT, LET ALONE DO IT!!

Which is why my personal prophecy is that its going to get worse (in the bad gun crime places probably) before it is ever going to get better.....

The only questions outstanding are where and when?

Take the example of South Africa today, where it was never good with regards to gun crime even years ago when I first started going there, but today is simply awful. Do you want to have to pack a couple of machine guns to go out after dark in your car? I know I don't (but done it!), but maybe thats just me......

Sometimes one must look at other countries and see what is happening to them and to learn from it...not simply ignore it.

It appears that your experience of being mugged etc., to be many times what I have experienced (once in Jamaica!), in spite of me visiting SA many times, Rio, Hong Kong, Singapore, Thailand and an and MANY MANY TIMES!!! To name but a few.

Even Ireland is not as safe as the UK is and I never got attacked there either.......

The only time it ever got dangerous was a Hotel in Melbourne, Florida when a bullet went through a few rooms (drywalls are crap in the USA!) when I was staying there, coming through one wall and going out the other.....

I once had a hand grenade thrown in my taxi in Aden in 1964 or 5. The taxi had no A/C and me and a colleague had the windows down. The grenade came through one window and went out the other, killing 5 Arabs on the street, and it was thought, the thrower too.....it happened so fast it was probably 10 minutes before I really took it in!!! The Taxi driver probably never, ever knew what happened as he spoke no English, and we did not bother trying to inform him, too dumbstruck!!!

At the end of the day, it is estimated 37% of Americans either have a gun or are in a family with guns.

That leaves a hefty 63% who obviously do not believe in guns for their own use. One day this majority will make itself STRONGLY felt, then what are the gun owners going to do, shoot them?

a-minority-of-americans-own-guns

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#129
In reply to #127

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/15/2015 4:25 PM

I don't believe that outlawing handguns would make that much difference. No handgun? cut down a shotgun or rifle, ever hear of a Lupara? Favorite assasination of the Italian Mafia, you take a perfectly good double barrel shotgun, the type used be millions of hunters all over the world and cut the barrels down to 12". It's concealable and effective at short range, just like that handgun you're so afraid may be used. In Italy they use bird shot, it's easily obtained and spreads very rapidly from those short barrels. Want a longer range projectile? Open the top of the shell and pour parrafin wax around the shot. Travels well and when it hits something it breaks into smaller fragments. Does nasty things to a body.

Or, make a pistol. It's dirt easy to make cap & ball revolvers. certainly slower to load but just a saccurate and the ammunition components are easily made also. Same for rifles. Think they're inaccurate? Go to a Schuetzen match. They are still held in Germany.

Want something more powerful? Well, I once worked with a construction supervisor who was from Eastern Europe. He still has a German machine gun buried in a graveyard, where he can get it. US? How about a MG stolen from a marine facility? Or one of the Thompsons made for the government without serial numbers to protect deniability. A lot of them went out the back door. Or a Sten, made all over England in WW II in mom and pop machine operations. A lot of them went out the back door also. Wartime cost $7.00 How many were made as extras and squirreled away? Despite your vaunted statistics, people still want the ability to defend themselves. Maybe they currently feel that it's easier to let robbers proliferate, thanks to European governments, now. But you are facing the same terrorist organizations that the US is experiencing - even moreso if you take Spain as an axample. Want something closer to home? The London subway bombing by terrorists. How about the IRA's activities, Quieter now, but tell it to Lord Snowden. All the police in the UK didn't stop this stuff, nor will they in the future. Yes they reduce such things - except when they don't. How about that poor guy who had his throat slit in the London street? Did any of your unarmed subjects step in to help him?

I realize we are just going around in circles, and I'll never change your mind any more than you will change mine. All I will say is that I hope you never regret not having one of those machine guns from SA available to you. Sadly, I think you willl need it at the rate Europe is being swamped by "peaceful" immigrants.

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#130
In reply to #129

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/16/2015 4:31 AM

You won't change my mind because (as I have said MANY MANY times already) you and some others here ONLY POST OPINIONS!! Your own!! STILL!!

Most of the weapons you describe are all completely illegal in all westernized countries, making even the possession of one a jailable/prison offence, even before you load it.

Many are VERY difficult to hide on your person, eg. useless, as would you even WANT to walk around at home with a Lupara down your pants (or ANY short barrelled weapon with "one up the spout"), not me. Let alone in a crowd?

I have seen a few guns go off unexpectedly (hammer fall) over the years, luckily with nothing in the chamber....gun safety rules are MOST important. I used to have to carry a "Lanchester" while on patrol in Singapore and anyone who has used this weapon knows just how dangerous they can be to the user and people nearby!

Anyone who has had a lot to do with guns and gun repair and maintenance and NEVER had this happen is simply lying.....whether or not the gun went off or not is probably more to do with NOT having a round chambered because of following safety rules.....which is why such rules are made and insisted upon by everyone with a reasonable brain, working near to/with guns.....

I have seen beginners drop loaded and cocked pistols that have occasionally gone off.....and some "experts" being stupid!! One was showing me a "quick draw" holster......damn near put a hole through his shoe!!! Just a yard away....I was behind him......

I have seen automatics, Brownings and Colts, fire when the slide was released when loading, maybe due to wear, damage and even bad maintenance. Even the wrong oil can make some guns dangerous!! But luckily ON the range and pointed DOWN the range for me, nobody hurt....

A friend of mine blew out both his eardrums in his cellar years ago, knowing the rifle (brand new!) had this fault already, but not having a suitable dummy round, he used a live one!

Big hole in wall and deaf!! One side forever...

The old Navy Webleys we used, being a revolver, I have never ever seen this happen, but as the trigger pull is quite heavy when cocked (at least on the RN versions), that may have something to do with it....

Revolvers have other problems, especially for amateurs with possible badly burnt skin on the fingers due to placing them wrongly along the chamber.....even after being shown twice by an expert!!

Assuming that you don't live in London for the moment, where have you read that people there, in spite of Islamic/IRA Terrorist bombs, over many years, want guns to defend themselves? I am sure that some do, but where did you read it?

I read the UK papers online and have never seen any mentions! Maybe I missed it......or did you imagine it?

Why wasn't Timothy McVeigh (or similar spelling) and his friend, not stopped from setting off that big bomb years ago by a gun owner/user? Would having a handgun and even knowing what he wanted to do have helped? How?

Together they killed 168 people and injured 600, a home grown Nutcase!!

Also, what possible use will it be to have a handgun with ANY terrorist action? the Terrorists don't have sweat shirts on like the CIA and FBI, but saying "TERRORIST" instead. (Might be a good idea!!!)

Maybe you or someone can persuade them all to wear something like this:-

Then they are easier to pick out in a crowd!!

Maybe you or someone, once you have seen his sweatshirt, then remember, shooting him might set off any bomb that he is carrying?

Why not let the police/army/FBI/CIA handle it?

By the way, what had Lord Snowden to do with terrorists and the IRA? See here:-

Philip Snowden, 1st Viscount Snowden (18 July 1864 - 15 May 1937)

Philip_Snowden,_1st_Viscount_Snowden

Were you mixing him up with the American whistle blower Edward Snowden? What has he to do with the IRA? See here:-

Edward_Snowden

I assume you really meant Lord Snowdon, who is still very much alive!!! What has he to do with Terrorists and the IRA? See here:-

Antony_Armstrong-Jones_1st_Earl_of_Snowdon

So at then end, I guess you meant Lord Mountbatten, my favourite RN personage, a real hero, in all senses of the word, who died from an IRA bomb in 1979.....

Now please do tell me how would handguns have ever helped him to stave off a slightly early death from a remotely operated bomb?

You can read about him here on Wiki, but the Biography is far, far better......

Knowing him slightly, I tend to think he was probably happy to go "out with a bang!" Though I never got a chance to ask him first!!

Lord_Louis_Mountbatten,_1st_Earl_Mountbatten_of_Burma

Nothing you have written here is accurate, you (again) have no references from newspaper, websites or anywhere, its still your flawed "knowledge", imagination and opinions again and again..... Totally laughable....sorry.......

You set yourself up as an "unmissable" target each and every time you post. But if that is how you get your "Rocks Off", so be it.....

You should at least check up on your facts before posting, at least that!!! Assuming you want more than just the other "Gun Nuts" here to take you seriously.......you are lucky, THEY WILL BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU WRITE!!

Have a great weekend, maybe you will do better the next time, but I somehow doubt it!!! I uess we will have to wait and see!!

If anything that I have written needs further explanation for better clarity, please just ask, I am perfectly happy to be of assistance!

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#131
In reply to #130

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/16/2015 7:30 AM

My apologies to Lords Snowden and Mountbatten for having confused their names.

Commiseration on having been issued a Lanchester, IMHO an even worse design than the Sten. It probably explains a great deal about your attitude toward guns.

For most criminals owning or carrying any weapon is an offense, down to box cutters and baseball bats. Doesn't stop them.

Anyone who does gunsmithing knows not to point a gun at anything they areen't willing to shoot. It's the first thing the are taught. Second thing is to always assume that any gun you see is loaded.

I don't unferstand what your fault friend's rifle had, other than being owned by a Darwin Award candidate. Care to elaborate?

I like Webleys and own a Mk VI. this particular gun had modifications to the cylinder to allow 45ACP in moon clips to be used. A war expedient but terribly inaccurate with stock ammo because the bore is designed for a lead bullet at .456, 45 ACP is .451 and usually brass jacketed. That's enough to make a great difference. I need to handload 45 ACP Rim shells after stretching the case mouth, with the larger diameter bullet.

Had friends living in London, they left as quickly as they finished their business.

McVeigh was an anomaly, a terrorist who didn't have ties to Allah. With the current crop, head shots stilll work.

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#132
In reply to #131

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/16/2015 8:11 AM

You said:-

My apologies to Lords Snowden (dead) and Mountbatten (dead) for having confused their names.

The second Lord was actually Lord Snowdon (alive), different spelling, different person, but no matter....

McVeigh was an anomaly, a terrorist who didn't have ties to Allah. With the current crop, head shots stilll work.

Agreed, but only if you know who to shoot and have time before they do.....! A terrorist does not have to worship Allah /Islam, he could even be Christian, or have no religion at alll!!

Mark my words, there could be another T.McV any day of the week, anywhere, not just the USA......not necessarily anything to do with Islam either....but definitely "home grown", they are the hardest to notice & catch!! And the craziest.

Look at the Baade Meinhoff gang in Germany......here:-

Red_Army_Faction

Not all of them were caught till after the Berlin wall came down, and then not immediately either....it took YEARS....one of the nastiest acts of east Germany against the west....

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#133
In reply to #132

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/17/2015 1:02 AM

Baader Meinhof was notorious enough that we heard of them here.

True, we have our share of nuts. Ted Kaczynski comes to mind. Solo terrorists are usually the hardest to catch if the're the least bit clever. Right now, many of our (sadly) home grown terrorists are mainly tied to Islam through mullahs that hate free speech and any behavior not directly controlled by them, the Boston Marathon for example. I do not claim that this includes most Muslims, just enough to be annoying. If France is any indication, we will have more trouble in the future. I've seen claims that the tipping point is a 20% muslim population. Where it occurs, the radicals become assertive to the point of being offensive. Have you seen any of the videos of Islamic worshippers blocking major streets in Paris? Again look at Charlie Hebdo. Hopefully it won't happen here although it's happening in local areas already, Detroit, for one.

Pure speculation on the part of many in this country, is that a many of the 'spontaneous assaults' are associated with overnment's attempts to change our laws to outlaw critical parts of the Constitution. One can only hope not. The timing of many of these is very convenient however. Many of the changes of government through history have started first by finding a scapegoat, then using that scapegoat as an excuse to modify the legal system to reflect what a new regime wants. Germany's use of the Jews before WW II is a great horrible example.

Our own government is certainlty not innocent of terrorism. The treatment of the Branch Davidian sect is an unfortunate example.

For McVeigh, he certainly did blow up a truck of fertilizer but again, many in this country aren't satisfied that he is the whole story. A friend of mine was traveling through the West at the time, and he swears that there was a radio interview with the local Fire Inspector who claimed that the building had a great deal of confiscated explosives stored in the building and there were reports of 'telephone repairmen' stringing cables (detcord?) in the building the day before, and supposedly seismograph records of multiple explosions. not one.. True? We'll never know, I trust my friend to tell the truth as he knew it. Was the interview real and subsequentlt quashed? Or a hoax? There is always speculation when these things occur. It certainly creates distrust of certain government agencies and that may be the only reason for them. All I will say is that you should make up your own mind.

I've spent enough time on this, I probably won't bother to say anything else, to the relief of many I'm sure.

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#134
In reply to #133

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/17/2015 9:09 AM

Many consider the Branch Davidian massacre as the prelude to T.McV's attack......

Also, just because Islamic terrorists are raising their ugly heads, do not believe for one second that the home grown ones are "standing down".....they are still there.....

Many try and "whitewash" David Koresh, but his people were suspected of breaking the US laws in many ways, not the least being sex with minors and stockpiling of illegal weapons....machine guns and grenades for example.

Converting legal semi automatic guns to automatic is often quite easy, sometimes it can be done by "only" the "removal" of a part added to make an automatic weapon, a semiautomatic. Belgian FN is an example, or better said, the version built for the British military in the 60's called the SLR. Maybe the original version too, but I have never taken one apart...

AR-15 too, look here for an old white haired idiot, who cannot even handle the gun correctly and even needs to look at the controls to get it right.

"Look at me, I am firing a machine gun!!" type of idiot!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKJ1dT1E_9w

Maybe others too can be converted, I don't know.....

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#141

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/18/2015 1:35 PM

Today is Monday 18th May 2015. Seen the news?

What about the Biker gang fights in Waco, Texas today?

Luckily(?) only bikers were hurt, but it could have MUCH MUCH worse.....

These sorts of incidents must somehow be stopped and their illegal arms removed.....

9 dead and many wounded.....

This is exactly what I find to be so awful......the Police were powerless (but were on standbye luckily, because IT WAS KNOWN WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN!!) till the shooting started!!!

WHY, WHY, WHY......

Why were the Bikers not disarmed before they got to the meeting/Battle???

Can anyone post an explanation as to why this can happen as it did???

What would any of the gun owners here have done if they just happened to have been "just round the corner?"

Gone in there or simply run away?

How would their weapon have "helped" in any way shape or form?

It appears to me that there needs to be some serious law making and changing to be done in the USA, or such happenings could easily get worse than they are already!!

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#142
In reply to #141

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/18/2015 2:21 PM

Allow me to jump into this, and address a couple points...

There is no one answer, as you and many other have pointed out there is a difference between responsible and irresponsible gun ownership. I can not respond for the irresponsible, as they are unpredictable.

"Why were the Bikers not disarmed before they got to the meeting/Battle???"

Really? You're asking why a criminal gang member didn't abide by the "No Firearms Allowed" sign on the Bar Door?

"Can anyone post an explanation as to why this can happen as it did???"

Because we have criminals and people who break the law in our society. I don't know what kind of answer you're expecting to receive this question. We have a criminal element in our society and they do bad things every now and then.

"What would any of the gun owners here have done if they just happened to have been "just round the corner?" Gone in there or simply run away?"

A responsible armed citizen that happened to be in the area would have ran/walked away and not engaged. Personal protective firearms are for personal protection and the first rule of any conflict is to avoid the conflict... cross the street, turn around, run, etc. It is neither the job, nor the responsibility, of armed citizens to provided law enforcement services... and most every armed citizen knows that.

"How would their weapon have "helped" in any way shape or form?"

They wouldn't have, and they shouldn't have.

"It appears to me that there needs to be some serious law making and changing to be done in the USA, or such happenings could easily get worse than they are already!!"

Because certainly another law would have prevented this. Seriously? Are you suggesting we regulate every citizen as if there were a thuggish criminal? Because tougher gun control laws, than there already are, would have certainly prevent the criminal element in our society from doing whatever they want to do - you know, since they abide by the law? Because it works so well in England?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkseaton_shootings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre

But wait... what about gangs?

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-15238377

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27815220

http://www.angelfire.com/planet/crimeandsociology/StreetGangViolenceinEurope.pdf

http://www.dw.de/german-police-struggle-against-hells-angels/a-15997378

So... summary... please stop making this out to be unique to the US because of our love of guns... it is a global issue... crime is crime is crime, and it's everywhere.

But, know this - bring your crime to my house - and I'll pop you twice in the chest and once in the head, because I'm armed and trained... and that type of info spreads. Every local criminal knows not to even look at my house... or my car.

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#143
In reply to #142

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

05/18/2015 3:27 PM

I will try and answer some of your comments as I see them:-

There is no one answer, as you and many other have pointed out there is a difference between responsible and irresponsible gun ownership. I can not respond for the irresponsible, as they are unpredictable.

"Why were the Bikers not disarmed before they got to the meeting/Battle???"

Really? You're asking why a criminal gang member didn't abide by the "No Firearms Allowed" sign on the Bar Door?

Why, as the police were aware, were road blocks on all roads into town and the bikers searched, relieved of weapons and arrested? Not to wait till they are entering the bar!!!

Because we have criminals and people who break the law in our society. I don't know what kind of answer you're expecting to receive this question. We have a criminal element in our society and they do bad things every now and then.

All societies have criminal elements, they have to be handled, the USA has got millions of illegal weapons around, that needs to be cleaned up too....

"What would any of the gun owners here have done if they just happened to have been "just round the corner?" Gone in there or simply run away?"

A responsible armed citizen that happened to be in the area would have ran/walked away and not engaged. Personal protective firearms are for personal protection and the first rule of any conflict is to avoid the conflict... cross the street, turn around, run, etc. It is neither the job, nor the responsibility, of armed citizens to provided law enforcement services... and most every armed citizen knows that.

"How would their weapon have "helped" in any way shape or form?"

They wouldn't have, and they shouldn't have.

Which shows just how useless personal weapons really are, you cannot protect yourself against a biker gang, or even a single shooter who is better than you. All you are doing is making yourself a target for criminals....

"It appears to me that there needs to be some serious law making and changing to be done in the USA, or such happenings could easily get worse than they are already!!"

Because certainly another law would have prevented this. Seriously? Are you suggesting we regulate every citizen as if there were a thuggish criminal? Because tougher gun control laws, than there already are, would have certainly prevent the criminal element in our society from doing whatever they want to do - you know, since they abide by the law? Because it works so well in England?:

It does work well in the UK, that galls every single US Gun Nut!!!!

The UK has put its money where its mouth is and it works.....I would love to say perfectly, that is not true, it is not perfect, but it does demonstrate clearly what CAN be achieved!!

Many said it could not be done in the UK......wrong!!

In comparison, both UK and German gun crime is far, far below that of the USA on a per capita basis. The USA lies in a level with poor third world countries, between Mexico and Argentina!! How shaming.....

You are someone who does some work on finding facts, well done, but you may have noticed that most of the UK gun crimes that you linked to were made before the law was changed outlawing ALL handguns, They were the reason that the law was changed, but the UK was still well below the USA for gun crime EVEN BEFORE THE LAW WAS CHANGED!!!!

I would like to see the law become an EU law.....

If you haven't checked the Wiki page about gun homicide per capita, you should.....if you need a link, I can provide it to you, I know it by heart!!

THAT SAYS IT ALL!!

Thanks for posting.

Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom

Also, Gun Laws in the UK:-

The first documented restriction was made during the 16th century, that prevented people from carrying guns and crossbows. Even before the USA wrote their Constitution, or amended it!!!
The first big law on guns was made in 1824 which made it illegal to carry a dangerous weapon of any kind in public without a valid reason.
More recently:-
In 1987, after the Hungerford massacre, a law was passed that prohibited self loading rifles and magazine loading shotguns.
In 1997, after the Dunblane massacre, a law was put in place to make it illegal to privately own a handgun or pistol.
During the 2012 Olympics the government had to put in a temporary dispension allowing shooting events to be held. It however remained illegal for pistol shooters to train in England Scotland or Wales, so they had to train abroad.
Very few crimes involving firearms are committed with live guns, most are done with air rifles or imitations.
It is still possible to get a gun license but it is very hard.
You need a special license to even own a BB gun.

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#144

Re: Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

09/05/2015 6:39 AM

The phrase `Common Sense' it self is a misnomer.It is called common sense,since it is presumed to be common (factor) attribute with every sensible person.with the falling morality and ethics ,it now practically extinct ,It is to be renamed as `Rare Sense'.

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