Common Sense is Dead. RIP!!

I hope you wrote out a risk assessment before undertking that post.

You wouldn't believe the hastle my siblings and I have been subject to regarding identification and certification of documents relating to transferring the ownership of my parents house from joint ownership of my Mum and Dad to my Mum and 3 siblings as trustees.

We provided suitable documentation to the first company who were dealing with the will.

They then handed the conveyancing to a another company (part of the same group) who wanted to prove our identities all over again.

The bonkers thing is the list of suitable people who can witness/certify... it includes policemen and financial advisors! I wouldn't trust a financial advisor further than I could fling a grand piano!

Photo copies of originals had also to be certified, yet the person certifying merely had to state it was a copy... not that you were the person in the document!

Total nonsense.... it's all to prevent money laundering, yeah right! As if a crook couldn't get a bent solicitor or financial advisor to witness!

The fact that the ownership of the property wasn't actually moving out of the family and it had always been in the family was beyond them.

They also persisted in confusing 'Law' with 'guidelines'... bunch of tossers. Our complaint was referred up to director level and eventually they did concede to accept non certified copies, but only whe threatened with withdraw of the business!

Complete idiots like most beurocrats who add nothing to the economy as they don't actually produce anything...

And don't start me on the financial services... leeches all of 'em.

Del

"I hope you wrote out a risk assessment before undertking that post."

We had to pay for an environmental impact study before we could place a camera on an existing light pole.

I have much sympathy for you, after adopting three children in the backward state of Arizona.

To the OP. Common sense has no gender. It is an it.

Just read about a 4 year old sent home from school with a note because her mother packed Oreos in her lunch.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/30/school-wont-let-girl-eat-oreos-childrens-academy_n_7179352.html

About a month ago I needed to source a few M12-1.75 x 320 hex head bolts. It is amazing how hard it is over here in the Colonies to get long metric hardware. I found a great looking web site http://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/ScrewBolt_M.html that seemed to have what I need. The only problem was that they are over on Del's side of the big pond. Well, I was busy with other things and I needed a checkmark on being able to source the hardware from someone. The web site lists 73 countries that they routinely do business with but they seem to have overlooked the United States when making the list. I sent them an email asking about it. Here is the reply:

Dear Bruce,

Thank you for your enquiry. Please accept my apologies but due to the current costs of public liability insurance we are no longer able to ship goods to the United States.

This issue is under constant review as we would prefer to accept business from anywhere in the world. I am sorry we are unable to help at this time.

Philip

You know for sure that common sense in American laws is long gone when a hardware store in England refuses to sell hardware to anyone in America.

We're afraid that it (a metric bolt!) might explode and injure someone and we get sued!!!

Look what that lady got for spilling her own hot (I hate coffee when its not piping hot, I even heat up the cups first!) coffee in her own lap!!!!

Which is why 70% of all the lawyers in the world, live and work in the USA.......lots of business.....

And that is why most people have armed themselves against the lawyers/other criminals.

If it were being installed in a spacecraft that might miss Mars, then the plea would be quite understandable.

"Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have."

Rene Descartes

Descartes lived many years ago when thinking was still a human activity.

Evolution lead but to the loss of this capability, now other think for you and oblige you to be happy their way. Those "thinkers" are called politicians, unfortunately you find them all over the world.

And I might well add, every a**hole politician (and gun control nut) has an axe to grind based on false reasoning, bad usage of statistics (that no reasonable, thinking person would call information or intelligence), and other slight of hand I don't even have words to describe, they produce more smelling, reeking piles of pure crap the rest of us have to clean up than the sacred cows they are trying to control. A little cow flop never hurt a true cowboy, if he slips in it, he will get up, swear a little, and go back to work. IF a citizen steps off into a pile of this stinking, fetid political dung being piled on and heaped upon the world now he will need a hazmat response team to rescue him before he is indeliably marked with the intrusive odor of mind control.

Even if the plug for Common Sense was pulled these days, Andy, it was in irreversible, deep coma for a long time, and never really recovered from it.

I like to believe that lack of some REAL opponent (we had the iron curtain to fear once) got things out of proportion. Imaginary opponents are easy to plant if there's enough green and "good enough" ends (?), to justify the means.

With this and that, without understanding it, we 're dragged into some form of sovietisation even worse in some prospects than the one applied in the soviet era.

Of course there's "free enterprise" on paper, but in reality this seems to get more and more academic. Too big companies and banking systems get ALL the real business, so get the mentality of the old soviet state: "all is ours", they're totally uncontrollable, and there 's no true competition, as happened in the cold war era to force things into balance the hard way. They're getting greedy for control and with the political system on their payroll... well, things are not good. And I'm not getting into conspiracy theories yet, but all this looks too much of a coincidence if you ask me.

I'm no commie but there IS such a thing as too much power and money in the wrong individual or people's hand. I don't give a f*ck if they spend it buying islands or supercars. But buying the strains to tie me up is another thing. History has taught us this attitude is there in humans and means today are more effective in that context than 100 years before. Afraid that "being with the good guys" looses its meaning by the hour. Hope I'm proved wrong. S.M.

The deep coma is indeed true. As with a lot of other things, common sense was legislated to death by the rule makers, all the way from your teachers/board of educations through to federal legislators, and upheld all the way to the supreme court. The sad part is that we, the people who supposedly put all those people in those places, let it happen.

Thanks to CR4 for trying to keep it's memory alive.

Church & state

Special interests

Need I say more?

P.S. GA Kevin, This is where it all began.

I said legislation initially, but,,,, I clearly forgot litigation.

I personally lost faith in humanity when I purchased a box of tooth-picks and the came with illustrated instructions.

As Voltaire said, the trouble with common sense is it isn't very common.

"Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement."

I'd do some research on that one - it's not quite what the Urban Legend makes it out to be. I think there is even a decent documentary "Hot Coffee" about it. A short vid on it though can be found at:

http://youtu.be/LqEu9c-iwd4

Otherwise, I think your piece is on the money.

Our city needs more money for bigger signs....they can't be read clearly from a proper distance....

Although, that is one of my big pet peeves: Sheet/bar stock (or equivalent, Even wood and some 'plastics' can hold a sharp edge when cut) that is cut leaving a needless sharp edge. Is it SO MUCH of an ordeal to take it to a deburing wheel/bring a deburring blade or sandpaper to it to take the sharp edge off? I understand if it's MEANT to be a cutting edge, but if it's not intended to slice things open, and it does not need the sharp corner because of close-fitting machined parts, TAKE THE THRICE-DAMNED EDGE OFF!

Well, deburring/sharp edge removal was obviously not in the spec that went out with the RFQ.¡¿☺

Your dry sense of humor is one of your terms of endearment.

Thank you.

Although I know my sense of humor does not mix well with politics or religion.

It's why I bowed out of that Global Warming discussion, I saw we were getting ready to go at each other like donkeys and elephants.

I think I copied this from an old CR4 posting years ago. It's worth a rerun.

Probably credit to Solar Eagle but I don't recall for sure who I copied it from.

Let me add one more:

At the nursing home my wife works for, if an elderly person, and this includes patients in the dementia wing, gropes another, exposes themselves, or other wise behaves in a sexually inappropriate manner, the police HAVE to be called and investigate. One poor guy in the dementia wing has been labeled as a sexual predator by the one local controlling agency. Another had to have the police investigate when he accidentally got into the bed of a member of the opposite sex. If the home doesn't call these in, then they are visited by the state protective services, and that apparently isn't pleasant.

Sheesh, the cops have to investigate the dementia patients leaving their room while forgetting about the existence of pants (as dementia patients are likely to do)? I can see the reason behind 'investigate all events,' because you need to me sure someone isn't 'faking' dementia/senility,' or is someone who drifts in and out of 'sanity' (for lack of a better term) and uses the 'insane' periods to deny responsibility for the times they know exactly what they're doing.

Considering how many elderly slip into dementia/senility/some other mental degradation in nursing homes, either from advancing age, or from the mounting depression when family stops visiting, it almost makes sense to have an 'Officer's office' in the building, to save on fuel versus having a patrol car have to drive over every time Mr, Simmons forgets what a bathroom looks like.

---

Let's look at it from the point of view of the patients. You'd expect, when you are sent to a nursing home, that you will NOT get raped there, by either the staff or the other patients. It's the same expectation when you go to work, or go to the beach, or go to the movies. This 'freedom from assault,' does not go away just because you're old. And because you enjoy that 'freedom from assault,' you are also expected to respect the 'freedom from assault' of others. Yes, Mr. Simmons forgets that he has to wear pants in the day room, he also forgets what he looks like, and gets startled by 'that strange guy in the mirror.' But that does not mean that Mrs. Jones or Mr. Baker have to sit there and suffer the sight of things that should only be shown to the late Mrs. Simmons or to Mr. Simmons' proctalogist.

Fine - but let the nursing home staff handle it as they have for decades - keep protective services and the police out of it - COMMON SENSE. The investigations don't change the outcome any. By the way, did you know that restraints are now totally illegal per government standards in a nursing home now. You can't lock that demented rapist in his room - that is now cause for a hefty fine. Even suppressing drugs are considered a restraint. No more drugging, no more shutting in room. Heck you can't even have side rails on a bed anymore. Let the little old ladies fall and break a hip, but don't you dare put a railing on the bed so they can't get out. ALL control of these events are now to be done by the staff, with lessening returns daily due to an increasing number of elderly with failing health and mental faculties. Modern medicine has prolonged the age we live to and now, by nursing home time, we are even more deteriorated than 40 years ago.

Wow, with those additional restrictions on the staff, it seems the only recourse left is even more cruel: kick the 'offending' patient out of the Home for the 'good of the community,' causing the poor soul to be bounced around from institution to institution, until someone manages to get them declared mentally incompetent and sent to the institutions where restraints, straightjackets and locked doors on rubber rooms ARE allowed, or find some loophole in the 'three strikes' law to get an 'automatic' conviction and sentencing to the Big House, where rape is given a free pass and these elderly people will be dean within their first week, assuming they survive inprocessing.

Talk about unintended consequences... (shudder)

Got a problem with that? Tell your congressman who thinks he has substantially made nursing homes better.

As 'heartless' as it sounds, I feel I should wait on this until after a few other ussues are resolved:

• "Fast-Track' Authority for the TPP is killed. (We cannot allow a critical trade agreement that has been written by corporations in secret to be pushed through Congress without proper Congressional review.)
• The TPP is killed. (From the parts that HAVE been leaked, this treaty looks to be a clear 'power grab' by the Corporations to place themselves not only beyond the reach of Government, but ABOVE government, an attempt to rescind the entire Constitution in the name of Corporate Greed.
• The current threats to Net Neutrality are eliminated. (The Internet backbone providers are still trying to control what is allowed at what speed (including 'zero speed,' complete blockage of content) tilting the field heavily in favor of the 'Deep pockets,' aka, other Corporations, and making it harder for We, The People to use the internet for public discussion and information discemnenation. A Non-Neutral Net would allow for the criminals who are now have their misdeeds exposed to the world to hide in the shadows again, and continue their murders and thefts out of the public eye.)

Right now we are fighting to maintain our very way of resisting the information stranglehold of 'Big Media,' and trying to keep America from becoming a 'daughter company' of Comcast and J.P. Morgan, sadly, there are only so many things we can push our 'representatives' in Congress to do for us before end up unable to do anything useful. They're already at cross purposes between the people who they are supposed to help and the corporations who paid for their elections.

That is why there are mental wards in hospitals, but unfortunately, the demented, and otherwise mentally incompetent are not typically kept in the correct institutions due to money ($$$$ always). That is why they get sent out to the rest homes, old folks homes, "assisted living centers" - whatever t f that actually is. I hate political speak, because it wastes air, confuses the mind with the wrong image, and attempts to sanitize life to the point where it no longer resembles real life.

The squeamish need to just go to another planet for God's sake, I have had a gutful of their nonsense.

"The squeamish need to just go to another planet for God's sake, I have had a gutful of their nonsense."

I'm sure they'd like to, but there simply IS NO OTHER PLANET to feasibly go to right now.

And that's getting close to a discussion I said I bowed out on, so I'll leave it at that.

"Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement."

I hate to be the one arguing AGAINST 'Commons Sense,' but the common oversimplification of this case omits critical details:

1. Restaurants are required BY LAW to serve 'hot coffee' with a certain temperature range. For the sake of argument (since I don't have time to research everything this morning) we'll say the 'legal' range is 85-100 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. The Fast Food Place in question (and possibly others in the chain) was in the habit of serving coffee at around 190 degrees F, a temperature commonly referred to as 'scalding,' so the dine-in customers would not finish their coffee too fast and come to the counter for their 'free refill.'
3. The little old lady, when she spilled the 'scalding coffee' on herself, suffered severe burns from the scalding-hot liquid.

Now, had this fast food joint served the lady coffee in the proper temperature, the case would have been laughed out of court. The injury revealed an incident of the fast food place violating the law, and because they had violated the law, they were liable for the consequences of their violation, just as you expect someone who illegally dig a pitfall trap under a sidewalk to be liable for the injuries of anyone who falls into that pit.

Now the point where Common Sense was missing in this case was when the manager failed to stop and think "If I serve people coffee that is close to the boiling point of water, they could really hurt themselves with it. That is a foolish, reckless and dangerous thing to do, and I should not serve the coffee too hot."

---

All your other examples are good, and I respectfully lay my rose on Common Senses coffin as I join the line of mourners.

Cop Sues Starbucks After Free Cup of Coffee Spills, Scalds ...

Right, and as the video I linked in Post 11 states... even after the 3rd-degree burns that required skin graphs and her to stay in the hospital for a month, she did not get millions... but rather about $600k.

LOL!!

Good post.

Now I understand fully now how it came about completely, but I still like my coffee so hot I cannot drink it immediately. Anything less and they get it back. I like the container heated up first as well with boiling water....

It still shows a lack of common sense to me personally, even though the lady concerned appears to know the law better than the McD manager.....!! She knew how to make money.....

The old UK saying, "The law is an Ass!" (as in Donkey, not rear end), appears to fit the bill.

Whoever made the law about coffee temperature in the US was the Ass (and anywhere else too!!)

Origin

This proverbial expression is of English origin and the ass being referred to here is the English colloquial name for a donkey, not the American 'ass', which we will leave behind us at this point. Donkeys have a, somewhat unjustified, reputation for obstinance and stupidity that has given us the adjective 'asinine'. It is the stupidly rigid application of the law that this phrase calls into question.

It is easy to find reference works and websites that attribute the phrase to Charles Dickens, who put it into print in Oliver Twist, 1838. When Mr. Bumble, the unhappy spouse of a domineering wife, is told in court that "...the law supposes that your wife acts under your direction", replies:

"If the law supposes that," said Mr. Bumble, squeezing his hat emphatically in both hands, "the law is a ass - a idiot".

In fact, 'the law is an ass' is from a play published by the English dramatist George Chapman in 1654 - Revenge for Honour:

Ere he shall lose an eye for such a trifle... For doing deeds of nature! I'm ashamed. The law is such an ass.

'Published by' doesn't necessarily mean 'written by'. In 1653, Chapman's play was registered, as The Parricide, or, Revenge for Honor, to fellow playwright Henry Glapthorne. Some scholars contend that the play was the work of neither gentlemen and was written around 1620.

Whoever the author was, we can be sure it wasn't Charles Dickens. However, it was Dickens who brought the phrase to the general public. Oliver Twist was an enormous success when it was first published as a serial and has become one of the world's best selling novels.

A bit of clarification on the topic of being 'ridden out of town on a rail', the rail in question was not something smooth like a railroad rail, it was a wooden fence rail split out of a tree trunk and left with all the splinters on it. Victim would ride rail with the corner of the rail uppermost. Definitely adds a bit of unpleasantness to the experience. Too bad we no longer do this, I have a short list of deserving people! Anyone else?

Long list?

Thanks for the explanation, also I had not heard the saying before either....

I learnt something new, always a good day then!!

Don't you remember Poor Jenny by the Everly Brothers, late 50s/early 60s?

Did you mean this:-

I took my little Jenny to a party last night
At ten o'clock it ended in a heckuva fight
When someone hit my Jenny she went out like a light, poor Jenny

And then some joker went and called the cops on the phone
So everybody scattered out for places unknown
I couldn't carry Jenny so I left her alone, poor Jenny

Well Jenny had her picture in the paper this mornin'
She made it with a bang
Accordin' to the story in the paper this mornin'
Jenny is the leader of a teenage gang

Jenny has a brother and he's hot on my trail
Her daddy wants to ride me out of town on a rail
I hope I'll be around, when Jenny gets out of jail, poor Jenny

I went downtown to see her, she was locked in a cell
She wasn't very glad to see me, that I could tell
In fact, to tell the truth, she wasn't lookin' too well, poor Jenny

Her eye was black, her face was red, her hair was a fright
She looked as though she'd been a'cryin' half of the night
I told her I was sorry, she said, "Get out of sight", poor Jenny

It seems a shame that Jenny had to go get apprehended, a heckuva fate
This party was the first one she ever had attended
It had to happen on our very first date

Jenny has a brother and he's hot on my trail
Her daddy wants to ride me out of town on a rail

I hope I'll be around when Jenny gets out of jail, poor Jenny!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It does not seem to be complete, but other sites post the same......

I also don't remember it much, sort of a vague memory only.....

That's right, I remember the first part including Her daddy wants to ride me out of town on a rail. So I'd heard of the saying before.

But I'd forgotten it from - I went downtown to see her, she was locked in a cell....Gave me a good laugh, brilliant.

Over the last few years I have noticed road signs installed in our area that proclaim "Hill blocks view". Really. In my day we all knew that without road signs to tell us so. I guess they have all of that tax money from me and need to spend it on something.

That seems less stupid than it would appear at first glance.

This sign is likely warning of a large, shallow dip, that cannot even be seen or felt while driving in dry weather, but becomes a shallow lake stretching across what we would assume to be 'straight, level' road.

It's not to warn people that 'Water is Wet,' but that 'This upcoming stretch of road has a surprise you might not be ready for.'

I see this as no different from 'Caution, Bridge may be Icy.' In the summer, that sign is useless, but in the winter, it says 'There is a bridge ahead you may not see through the falling snow, and even if the road is clear and dry, the bridge could have an ice patch on it.'

It's actually a case of simple economics, the cost of the sign (maybe a hundred or two, if it's a new sign installation) versus the cost of bridge/road repair after one accident in the area (several hundreds, possibly in the low thousands).

These road signs aren't a case of 'Death of Common Sense,' they're gentle reminders, protection against motorists driving with a case of 'hole-in-the-head' ("I've driven down this road every day to and from work for the past five years, I could do it in my sleep without even thinking. Let's find a better station on the radi-HELLO! Where did that pothole come from?! It wasn't there yesterday, it was a mile further down the roa- Oh wait, I'm going North, not South, it WOULD be before the abandoned gas station in this direction.")

The problem with the sign is poor wording. It should have read: "When raining, flooding may occur".

Well, from what I can tell about the 'Style Sheet' for road signs (pased on observations of many such signs), punctuation is not to be used. So your proposed sign would need to be [ FLOODING MAY OCCUR WHEN RAINING ] which conveys the same general idea as the original sign, but is more general, does not remind drivers to think of the road conditions during the flood, and may actually fail to warn drivers of potential hazards. "That's just a puddle, not a real flood, I can still see the lane markings clear as day, nothing to worry abou- oh, who, WHOAH! Is this that 'hydroplane' thing they talk abou-(CRASH!)"

A little water on the road can be more dangerous than a lot. You can't lead people to think of road hazards from rain to be just flooding, but also hydroplaning hazards, and the potential for loss of control if the water is only on one side of the lane, adding drag to one side of the car and 'pulling' it off the road.

'Water on Road' covers a number of hazards, and to list them all on a road sign would be such a 'wall of text' that the drivers will either ignore it as Too Long: Couldn't Read Before I Passed It or else they'll try to read it all and loose focus on the road, making the sign ITSELF a hazard.

Road signs are supposed to be short and sweet, to 'jog the memory' of the driver, reminding them of the things they already learned in Driving School (formal or informal, doesn't matter where or how you learned, you're supposed to know the Rules of the Road, which include the Safety Rules). Being 'short and sweet,' they're also somewhat generic, so the 'Water on Road during Rain' sign can be used for ANY location where you'll have one or more water hazards during wet weather, instead of having to make custom signs for every spot.

I have just remembered in my RN days, before there were lots of motorways in the UK, I am driving, in heavy rain (with a new set of 4 REALLY good Dunlop "Aquajet" tyres, who remembers those?), going FAR faster than legal, even on a dry road. Must have been about 1966......and I was doing probably 90 MPH!!

03:00 on a Sunday night!, heading for HMS Collingwood.....Fareham, Hants..

Someone had placed a flood sign on the brow of a small hill, but I was in/on the flood before my brain had handled the sign!

There was a car stopped on the RH side (going in the opposite direction!), with his headlamps partly under water!!! Water was probably 2 to 3 feet deep!!

I "skimmed" like a pebble over the water, sending a HUGE wave over the other car (no idea if anyone was still in it or not!!), the floor of my car being quite substantially being suddenly shoved upwards. I got to the other side, changed down and drove on!!! Floor returned to normal!!!

That was it!!!

I was very happy with those Dunlop tyres, but anyone who ever followed, was blind as they threw a lot of water in the air!!! Here is an old "ad" picture showing why:-

Reminds me of a story from a friend who used to be an Emergency Responder for the Red Cross (He's still a trained Emergency Responder, he just refuses to work for the Red Cross any more, but that is another story, for another time) and why he loves the Saturn line of cars (Well, loved, since the line is discontinued, but I digress).

He was responding to an emergency, driving through unfamiliar territory and saw a large puddle of standing water completely covering a section of the road up ahead. Now one of the first things Emergency Responders are taught is "Don't drive into standing water, you don't know how deep it is, and if you get stuck, not only will you be unable to provide your resources to assist in the rescue. then the other ER's will need to divert resources from the REAL rescue to go and save YOU. It is literally better for you to stay home and not respond than it is for you to respond and get stuck on the way." These thoughts were nowhere near his mind that day, as he knew of only two routes to get to the distressed area, and backtracking to the other route would mean a 3-4 hour delay. So he drove on into this puddle and soon enough realized it was deeper than he had estimated, as his Saturn was now bobbing in the water, with the wheels no longer touching the pavement.

There was no noticeable water seeping into the passenger compartment, so he was pretty sure he was not going to drown here, but as he sat there, helpless in his floating car, all he could think about was the headlines in the next day's newspaper, "Senior Emergency Responder Fails to Remember Most Basic Training: Hinders Rescue Operation." So there he was, resting his head on the steering wheel, his hands white-knuckled around the vinyl grips, his body gently convulsing as he was alternately laughing and crying over his situation, when suddenly, the car LURCHED! He looked up, trying to figure out what happened when the car LURCHED again. At the third lurch, he realized that he had forgotten to take his foot off the accelerator and the wheels were spinning all this time the car was slowly, drifting, across, the flood. He soon got enough purchase to drive out of the mess he had gotten himself into and went on to assist with the rescue as planned. And from that day until the Saturn line was retired, he had nothing but glowing praise for this wonderful little swimming car.

He hasn't told the story since the Saturn plant was shut down, however. I guess he feels it's not worth endorsing a line that people cannot get any more.

I remember in my Scouting days hearing of an Indian tribe (might have been one of the Plains tribes, I don't remember) that would let the babies and children play close to the fire in the council tent. They would let the kids learn for themselves that fire is hot, allowing the child to burn a finger in their explorations. They let the kids own experiences shape their learning. If the kid was in danger of FALLING INTO the fire and getting seriously hurt, however, the adults would lunge in to save the child. A first or second degree burn on a hand is painful, but it heals, and teaches respect for fire, a crippling injury is bad for the entire tribe, especially in one so young who hasn't yet been able to contribute to the group's well-being. (An elder who becomes lame or crippled is less of a burden, because they have already 'paid back' their upbringing by being an active member during their 'hunting years,' and they're pretty much expected to hang around the campsite all day anyway, teaching their skills to the next generation, ans sharing the wisdom of long years. Plus, with the First nations lifestyle, the old tended to get 'rag and bone' skinny instead of fat, so it wasn't that hard to carry them around if needed.)

I think I got a little off track at the end, sorry.

I am afraid that generations to come will turn out to be completely stupid if they follow all the warning labels on each gadget they interact with!

Do you imagine the breakfast table at a home in the future? Family members staring at each other frozen in fear of getting burned with a hot toast or cup of tea, anxiously looking at a sharp knife capable of doing great harm... a dangerous stick of butter that can make them slip and break their neck ... not to talk about the honey or jam, that can lead to a terrible hyperglycemia and render them blind.. or so ....

The only common sense here is the one from the industry behind the lawsuits!

Common sense.man be dead, it opinions are.alive and well.

In the Military, we have a saying:

"Composite Risk Management Prevents Natural Selection"

Talk about lack of common sense! At our Board of Director's meetings, lately, we've run into many discussions where common sense is clearly lacking. This starts when someone cites a specific rule in Robert's Rules of Order, the book our bylaws reference not as a guide, but to use in place of the bylaws, when the bylaws are silent about a subject.

Back in grad school, a professor of mine gave us great explanation of the letter of the law vs the spirit of the law. If traffic is flowing at 75 mph in the fast lane, but the speed limit is 55 mph, the spirit of the law says to follow the flow of traffic to be safe - common sense, right. When a police officer drives by, people quickly slow down by 15 mph or so - the fast deceleration is not safe and does cause accidents. So, be people trying to follow the letter of the law, they've actually put themselves at more risk of injury.

A little over as month ago, I blocked a group of radicals from pressuring our organization to do something it shouldn't. Since then, they have nit picked our organization apart with claims that we're not following Robert's Rules of Order. These radicals open the book, choose some obscure text out and create time wasting arguments at our meetings. By the letter of the law, they're correct, however if we look at our mission statement, they're obviously going against it. This drives me nuts!

Talk about a lack of common sense - they're stopping us from doing our job, which hurts the whole community and hurts them, because they're a part of the community.

Radicals have no common or other sense, they are senseless!

BTW you brief mention of traffic at 75 in 55 mph zone is totally contrary to what is taught in defensive driving....common sense or not. It certainly leads me to think you live in Los Angeles area....the law always seems to apply to someone else not me....me, me, me, always first me. LOL - have a great week!

If I was ever going to convinced by Fredski's arguments FOR driverless cars, that would just about do it for me, but I don't live in L.A., and there is no money on earth piled high and deep enough to move me out there. California sux (at the least the urban parts do). The Governor of Californication sux even more.

The best way to shut up a single radical - find an opposite spin radical, and pair them up, one will beat the hell out of the other, then the last radical standing goes off to the pokey.

Plainly stated- Common Sense Is Not Dead. It is still here, still doing its job be it paid or pro bono, still effecting persons and the whole world in positive ways.

Perhaps in our experiences of life we have forgotten to recognize it when it is there. Yes, there are many who we think don't have much of it but is it that we can't recognize it because it isn't in the same "dressage" that we would recognize it easier or is it just not there? Are we insensitive to it? There are a lot more people with it than with less developed and less recognizable common sense. Do they not have it or are we in "our learned wisdom" from our own personal experiences not recognizing it and not giving others credit for having it?

When speaking of it and our views that it is dead, is it our fault that we have not cultivated it in others as others at an earlier time in our lives cultivated it in us? Today is what we and our generations are responsible for. If Common Sense is dead, what did we do to kill it, let it die, or otherwise become extinct?

If Common Sense is dead, we are responsible for its death. Did we just complain about it, not do anything about it or did we murder it?

Good Luck, Old Salt

I think "Nanny State Politics" is about 95% of the loss of common sense. When people had to figure out survival on their own volition, things were more straightforward and cut to the chase. Now, it is all flowery words, protection of the ignorant masses (programmed by watching endless sitcoms on TV, or "reality" TV, no doubt) from themselves, and short-circuiting Darwinist economics, and/or just plain Darwinism, and/or the laws set forth by a higher power (whomever you choose to call Him). Only a fool says in his heart, "There is no God."

There are still informally educated people out there making a lot of money, without a college degree - how is this possible? These people have not lost the basic instinct to think for themselves, watch what is taking places, see trends, and move on it as true entrepreneurs. Common sense is not dead, maybe knocked out, and it's 8 on a 10 count, so start flapping towels, open the smelling salts, etc. Wake him back up.

A tattoo like this .......

What an idiot!!

It looks like he got it "given" to him while in a drunken stupor!!

A drunken friend of mine woke up with a schooner under full sail on his chest many, many years ago!!!

Another, awake but VERY drunk, managed to get a Scarab Beetle on his "Bell end" while very drunk....most painful sober.....

Wow! One can only imagine such pain. Was the tatoo artist a relative of Dr. Mengele? It does sound like a science experiment (heaven forbid the hypothesis to be tested) gone very wrong indeed.

So, Andy, I am ready to let you off the hook on gun control, since really it has nothing to do with guns, just governement CONTROL. The government wants control of everything, but here in the U.S.A. we like to let them THINK they have control of everything, but they are actually the ones connected to the matrix.

You cannot let me off the gun lobby hook, I wasn't ever on it!

But the gun lobby has America in its grip.

Its going to get a LOT worse before it gets better, probably long after I am dead and buried....till some clever politicians get rid of all the hand guns.....believe me, it will get a LOT worse before it gets better.

My prognosis....

Over the years I have seen how SA is descending into the abyss with guns.....

The are not alone....

Nice slight of hand there, Andy:

"You cannot let me off the gun lobby hook, I wasn't ever on it!

But the gun lobby has America in its grip."

What I said was I was going to let you off the hook on gun control. I never said you were a lobbyist, although a fearsome one you would make. The main point I have been trying to make (once you stop calling me names), is that gun control, is really important to the people that want it, because it is about control, not guns. Would they do just as well to try to legislate knife control?

If we were looking at actual violent crime stats, (and I suspect we are not), we would find a lot more deaths by knives than guns, with fists and blunt objects somewhere also above gun violence - at least in the U.S. (as best as I can recall the statistics from the links I sent to the CR4 breakroom discussion on the topic I started. Check it out.

As the person that called me "dumbass" in a recent blog (I had not used any such words up to that point myself, as I do use them first), you appear to have a very short memory span at best......

Even if frustration is the problem, you must learn how to remain cool.....

There are several others here that cannot remain cool......they should all have been in the debating team in my school, that was a great place to learn the art of argument!!

So if you now don't remember calling me that or when or where, do not expect me to pay much further attention to any further comments, to what is obviously (to us outside of the USA at any rate) a foregone conclusion.

The only question open for us is "How long will it take?"

My best guess is probably 10 to 20 (awful) years.....

But I am prepared to be completely wrong on the timing.....it could be much sooner.

Another of your "Christmas wish letters"? But how positively unfriendly Lynette!!

We can argue all day at who knows best, BUT IT WILL NOT CHANGE THE END RESULT, OR WHERE OR WHEN OR HOW IN THE SLIGHTEST!!!!

Can't you see that?

Maybe I do see it better than you do!!!

By the way, I don't ever want to be right about some aspects of the problem, they simply do not bear thinking about.

Furthermore, being the absolute complete opposite to you, (me having been brought up properly!) in both manners and worldly knowledge, I am even fully prepared to say after 20 years, if nothing has gone even more wrong than it already has with regard to the US and its home gun problems, I was wrong!!

Wait up!!

You said, "The only question open for us is "How long will it take?"

My best guess is probably 10 to 20 (awful) years....."

How incredibly arrogant of you announce the above, as if you, a foreigner, who knows nothing about America, knows the "only question open".

Your upbringing has failed you miserably.

Ha Ha Ha ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ha Ha

Please continue to believe that!!!!

Ha Ha Ha ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ha Ha

Maybe this should have been included in my earlier post. It's a translated quote:

"This year will go down in history, for the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"

Spoken by Adolf Hitler on the passing of the German Weapons Act in 1935. Maybe we should think about what that preceded for Germany, Poland and several other countries. Or, maybe we should reflect on what the Warsaw Ghetto managed to do starting out with only two pocket pistols that they managed to hide. (Look it up, if it hasn't been swept under history's rug.)

We're starting to forget lessons like that, which is why our current crop of political idiots is able to function.

We in GB in 1939, 40 and 41, with basically NO preparation for war, kept the Nazi hordes at bay, without any people having their own private handgunś at home. (I am not saying there weren't probably a few somewhere, but if the Nazis had invaded, they would not have been used, as handguns are really only needed to kill other usually unarmed people, with little or no prior warning....(as their are easily hidden).....but are pointless suicide against an army)

We kept it up till the Nazis turned around and went eastwards......poor Russia! Luckily no big landings.

Also, I fail to understand how so many believe that handguns will hold an army back and defeat them.....no matter how many handguns there are, or people to use them.They will get simply slaughtered. An army has amongst other weapons, machine guns, rifles, mortars, tanks and of course aircraft....the list is not complete.

In Afghanistan, the locals killed the Russians wit mainly rifles and machine guns.....not handguns.

If the Yamamoto statement is true, he was either a US patriot or flawed....

The UK is reliant on the government agencies for all internal defense.....not having a population with weapons, makes this far safer.....we have an exceedingly low rate of gun crime....

....now if you had NO handguns (simply useless for the job anyway, so the argument is also useless!), but loads of rifles and similar, you might turn a foreign army around.....you could certainly make it VERY uncomfortable for them...

The mainland USA (and Hawaii in this case) has yet to prove it can do what the GB almost did to the Nazis, but better, simply because the USA has HANDGUNS at home! Therefore you are a very lucky country. You haven't ever needed to find out what a disaster that will be!!

In WW2 the USA had no air raids on mainland towns and villages (I believe!), a few shells once from a Jap sub!!! But most terrorist actions, that is until the first attacks on the WTC, I do believe that all your terrorists were "home grown" ones (from memory!)! Not that there were many........

Correct me if I am wrong.....

Only Pearl Harbour was really bad, but at least it dragged you all into WW2 at last!! We in the UK were fighting on our own after France fell, till 1942 when the US war machine finally started delivering.

BUT IMAGINING THAT AN ARMY CAN BE FOUGHT ON LAND USING HANDGUNS IS FUTILE. IT SIMPLY CANNOT!!

ANYONE BELIEVING OTHERWISE IS SIMPLY CRAZY.

I said earlier what handguns do well, that is their only usage.....

I know none of this will sit well with the gun nuts. I do not care. If they do not understand it, they will probably be the first to die.....problem solved.

You in GB in the early stages of the war begged the US for firearms to arm your populace, yes, usually in home guard groups, and we did. We voluntarily contributed our hunting rifles and shotguns to your defense. How many of your history books mention that these days. Moreover I never said that we would have defended the country with handguns, nor did Yamamoto (high admiral in the Japanese Navy) assume this. He said "rifle" although handguns have been part of the kit for our special forces since their inception. Handguns in civilian hands are commonly used for self and home defense. And BTW, your ever grateful 'gummint' never offered to return all that private property, they destroyed them. (I wonder what happened to all those Stens that were made in home machine shops all over Britain?)

The UK is reliant on it's government for internal defense, and it is doing a poorer and poorer job of it. Have you bothered to look at gun violence stats for the UK lately? Your murder stats far outnumber ours despite (because?) of the disparity in the numbers of handguns. Don't take my word for it, check them out. Moreover, as Muslim terrorist activities increase, your population is a bunch of sitting ducks. Terrorists will not work singly, they will come en mass. And while one gun won't stop such mobs, a determined defense by small armed groups does work. See the Watts riots in LA several years ago. The shop owners did well, until the 'gummit' stepped in and forced the shop owners to leave, then let the looters loose! And again, I call your attention to the Warsaw Ghetto's defense at the invasion of Poland.

I would love to see the links where you get your statistics, but you will probably believe ANYTHING that supports your dreams in any way.

Please post valid links that support your wild claims.

Simply put, the UK murder statistics per capita, using data from GOOD websites, are a tiny % of the USA's ......

I for instance believe the statistics of the United Nations. I find them to be a reliable source of information.

You may want to look at this pdf for world wise Homicide statistics from the UNO:-

UNO_2014_GLOBAL_HOMICIDE_BOOK

If you preferred coloured maps from the same document, look at map 1.1. This shows how homicide in the USA is at between 3 to 4.99 per capita in 2012. Whereas Europe is at a 0 to 2.99 rate.......

A really significant difference and completely opposite to your wild and false claims!!

Handguns or rifles are not mentioned.....please notice that!!

By the way, can you post any supporting data links demonstrating that the use of handguns in any country can slow or offset an invading army as claimed in a previous post?.....

Also, do remember that I specifically and repeatedly mentioned handguns, which are designed for one major usage. It is not personal protection for average citizens, even though people like yourself believe that! God only knows why!!

Its to rob and kill people. Keeping the weapon hidden till required.

The armed forces and police are not considered in this point as they are trained professionals and it is part of their job.........

I personally have nothing against proper licensing of rifles and shot guns to people who have undertaken a recognised local training program AND are not considered to be a mental health risk to society.

Many consider particularly, that anyone for example, who possesses large numbers of handguns (more than 2!!) with ammunition for each and every one (as against collectors of guns, with no ammunition nearby!) to have serious mental problems.

I have to agree with that point of view.

Here you can see the gun related crime for each country:-

List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Again, the USA is the leading large country.....as ever.....

If you bother to reply, DO PLEASE POST THE SUPPORTING LINKS. Otherwise, its hardly worth bothering!!

I certainly will ignore your unsupported wild claims completely!!!

A couple of points:1) In the US, the UN stats are suspect. The UN has been trying to get our Gov't to sign a treaty that would effectively gut our Constitution. 2) the US was involved with WW II in Europe before Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. 3) Handguns have been an integral part of our armed forces equipment since our "Civil War" in the 1860's. Starting with cartridge using pistols in the 1870's, and cap and ball pistols before that, our cavalry was armed with revolvers in 45 caliber, then later reduced to .38 and during the Spanish American war, which included the so-called Moro Insurrection in the Philippines we again went to .45 caliber. During WW I handguns and shotguns were used extensively in trench clearing operations. During Viet Nam our bunker clearing men (tunnel rats) were armed with pistols and knives because of the tight quarters. Your claim that pistols have no military use simply doesn't hold up. They're tools, just as rifles, machine guns tanks. and yes, boots and uniforms. 4) Handguns are used for hunting and sport all the time in this country. Some of the areas I've hunted were so overgrown that you couldn't swing a long gun.

As far as your Wikipedia table is concerned, it doesn't breakdown where or how a person came to die by gunfire, attacker or defender?. Considering the UK as an example there is virtually no legal handgun ownership and as I understand it, those who do own them legally are required to store them in locked storage at target ranges - true? If so, then all your handgun homicides are by illegally held guns and your own news media are claiming a substantial increase in smuggled weapons. In most of the US, a person can legally carry a handgun (it varies from locality to locality - we'll address some of that in a bit). Your chart fails to address whether the guns used were held legally, or illegally i.e. a peaceful home owner? or a drug dealer 'defending his territory' and where - State? City? Detroit is a great horrible example: According to UNO the homicide rate is around 35/100,000 yet it's illegal to own or carry a handgun. The only people who normally carry are drug dealers, muggers and home invasion specialists (all 3 designations are usually interchangeable). There is a subculture at work here where most of the homicides remain in the subculture Although home invasions do happen, I think you'll find you and Australia with your laws making home defense difficult are currently experiencing more of that particular crime than we do. No, I don't have stats - this is based on reported news and admittedly suspect. The most notoriously anti-handgun areas in this country are: New York City, Chicago, Atlanta, Los Angrles and Detroit. If you check your own UN report, those areas of the country have the worst homicide stats. The rest of the country is much less prone to violence. How many of the homicides reported in your study were in defense of person or property? You can't tell from this, but that does exist, and IMHO should be removed from the stat.

There were two suburban towns that made changes in local law a few years ago, Morton Grove Illinois and Kennesaw Georgia, Both about the same size, both about the same economic base. Morton Grove outlawed handguns in the town couldn't own or carry. Kennesaw deliberately as a response to this, made it mandatory to keep at least one gun in the household. Morton Grove's violence went through the roof. Kennesaw's dropped to some of the lowest in the nation. Gun presence isn't the problem, politics and economics are.

At present, the greatest threat to all of us is Islam's determination to force us all (including you) to submit to Sharia terrorism (It can't really be called law, it's a system of whim based on any individual mullah.) What will you do when your home forces are overwhelmed by those currently more or less peaceful Muslims? London already is suffering under demonstrations that approach riot. Look at Paris and Charlie Hebdo. Where are the weapons necessary to defend your homes and family? While your unarmed Bobbies and are being swamped and beheaded, what will you do? Do you really think your armed forces can be all over the countryside in numbers to defeat mobs that attack all at once? PM Merkel said that Germany is already lost to foreign invasion. What will your answer be when your front door is kicked in? Australia has already been trying to figure out how much of the continent they can hold when Indonesia invades. It's considered inevitable because of overcrowding, and yet their gov't confiscates the materiel necessary for the citizenry to defend itself.

Phooey! All I can say at this time is that it's a darn good thing we left England's tender care 200+ years ago.

Firstly, let me state again, for military and Police use, why is it necessary for you and others to keep reiterating the same old re-vamped comments....the only impression that this gives me is YOU DON'T HAVE A GOOD HONEST LEGAL ARGUMENT FOR PRIVATE OWNERSHIP AND USAGE OF HANDGUNS!!!! OTHERWISE AT LEAST ONE OF YOU WOULD HAVE USED IT AND POSTED STATISTICS FROM A REPUTABLE WEBSITE PROVING ME WRONG!!!

None have managed that till now!!

Let me state categorically that:-

I PERSONALLY AM PERFECTLY HAPPY THAT THE MILITARY AND THE POLICE, TRAINED PROPERLY, FULLY ARMED, WHETHER IN THE 17TH, 18TH, 19TH, 20TH AND 21ST CENTURIES, WHETHER IN ANY WAR OR ANY PEACE TIME ACTIONS, TO HAVE AND TO USE HANDGUNS WHEN REQUIRED BY LAW.

Understood now?

Is that enough to stop you and others repeating that again and again the same old stuff "ad nauseum"?

IT IS THE PRIVATE OWNER OF LEGAL AND ILLEGAL HANDGUNS THAT ARE THE PROBLEM!

They shoot people illegally!!!

WHETHER IN CRIMINAL HANDS OR NOT! Whether a registered handgun or not!

The US Population (rightly!) makes a fuss when a Policeman shoots someone, but not quite as much it seems if the victim is in any way an "off-white" skin colour and if the Policeman is white!!

That is wrong.

They also appear to forget just how many Police in the USA lose their lives each year!!

2014

The Officer Down Memorial Page reports 127 deaths in the line of duty. The National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund counted 126 federal, state, local, tribal and territorial officers killed.The preliminary count from the FBI is that 51 law enforcement officers were 'feloniously' killed in the line of duty in 2014, and an additional 44 died in accidents (total: 95)

Though I could not find out a) how many were shot (as against knife crime) and b) whether handguns played a role or not.

But understandably, some officers get a bit trigger happy, sadly!! With no legal handguns in the hands of true citizens (the criminals take longer to understand the law), a good start could be made to making Police less nervous about getting killed in the line of duty!!

Also, it does not matter a whit if you get a big ball of lead somewhere in your body, whether or not it comes from a legal or illegal gun!!! YOU ARE STILL SHOT!!! You tend to view things differently after that!!

Furthermore, I could mention (online documented) cases of rape/murder made by members of the armed forces on innocent civilians, it has been going on for centuries!! But is there any point to doing that? I see none personally, but it has happened, some only very recently in Germany, where US soldiers were charged and found guilty.

It has as much bearing on the handgun problems as does most of your post!! e.g. NONE!!

If handguns were completely banned for civilians, the true hunters would still hunt.......nothing stops the sport!! Hedges or not!!

You may even find the following website interesting to read:-

uk-olympic-pistol-shooters-allowed-to-practice-with-mock-pistols

Showing that a country (in this case the UK) CAN if it RALLY WANTS TO, mostly stop hand gun crime.....but ONLY if it really wants to......even to the detriment of the "sport"!!

The technology comes from the USA by the way.....many thanks.

Furthermore, as one of the people supporting gun crime, accidentally or not, intentionally or not, you have to admit that the Wiki statistics STILL remain the best source of valid online data with regard to homicide generally.

Now if you were able to supply a link from say the US Government, with let us say "BETTER" statistics, then why don't you? I would look at them with very great interest.....

Simple answer, the Wiki pages are still the most accurate and that "galls" many.....but not me!! I am happy wiith them till something better comes along.

Some here are just unhappy with Wiki for publishing ANYTHING that they don't like!!!!

I also believe that the Wiki World gun ownership statistics are as good as any other and most probably better.....they dovetail in with the crime rates well....

What do Americans say? "Put up or shut up!" (Did I get it right?)

So please be so kind as to supply valid verifiable statistics that support your claims. A VERY simple request that NOBODY here has managed to answer!!!.....

As Judge Judy says time after time something like, "if it makes no sense, then it is nonsense....."

By the way, try answering my posts point by point, that way we may get some proper progress, instead of just ignoring all the facts I bring to this discussion each time. That sort of shows that you have no answer to them you understand........

Thanks for your time anyway.....

Andy: I feel sorry for you, let it go. You will never win - blaming law abiding persons protecting their property, and loved ones is not against the law here. Maybe it is in your F*U* country, but thank God, not here, not now, not ever. As I already showed you, more homicides are done here with knives, or even blunt instruments than guns. We have plenty of gun related laws that are connected to the commission of crimes. Do not worry about Americans. We can take care of our own problems without you worrying, losing sleep, or getting ulcers.

We need hand guns to stop mad dogs, and/or misplaced Englishmen.

Ordinary folk aren't allowed to own any firearms here.

There is a machette under every bed in my house. A dog stays on constant patrol and the kitchen knives get locked away at night. Just common sense.

Firstly, thanks for posting for where you live.

What is crime like in comparison to say the UK and the USA in your opinion?

From what I read on the web, it s generally very high and often directed against tourists, but using clubs and knives, not guns....

I looked it up and gun related homicide for Cambodia does not appear in the Wiki statistic as far as I can see, so I guess that Gun related crime is so low, it wasn't even worth bothering to note.

Or possibly no figures available?

I have never been to Cambodia, it was a closed off country when I lived and worked in the far east....and no chance nowadays.....!

I went most everywhere else though in that region, even "almost" on a "leaflet" bombing run over N.Vietnam, till common sense (it was alive and well a the time!) kicked in, though the chances of getting shot down were minimal at the time.....

But explaining to Her Majesty's Government why I was dead or a prisoner in N.Vietnam was low on my "Bucket" list. Still is!!!

No wonder you have Dogs and machetes handy!!!

The feeling is mutual (I feel sorry for you) as again (nothing new here!) NO FACTS SUPPLIED!!!

Only flawed opinions and poor ideas and comments.......

Totally useless.

Its like you bringing a Knife to a gunfight!!! Again and again and again! Learn something new to post please....keep us all interested for once!!!

(is that enough agains? Probably not!!)

So do try and change the "music" and bring some FACTS to show us all !!!

I am REALLY interested in something new and factual, but starting to get bored because its simply not coming from any of the GNC members here.....

Thanks in advance of another gunfight, you with your little knife again!!!I

I had a look at Andy's statistics and understood why he left his beloved Kingdom and lives in Germany:

Rates in Germany are lower than in the UK 45 to 20%! It should be recognized that in the UK rates decreased from 2 in 2002 to 1 in 2011 but during same period in Germany rates were 1.1 and 0.8 respectively.

He cannot say anything against this statement since it is based on HIS recommended statistics.

And please put an END to this stupid discussion.

It started in a VERY interesting way and now it is trash. It is a PITY.

I made this ONLY to show how statistics can be used and misused to support or destroy a point of view.

I won't go (yet) as far to say I don't believe you BUT:-

You need to explain better, what rates are you talking about, from which link that I posted?

Till then, its simple hot air!

Also, as I have posted MANY times here over the years, I AM ALWAYS READY TO BE PROVED WRONG, you haven't done that quite yet!!!

Thanks in advance for a full and proper explanation.

You gave a link for statistics and I used it, that is ALL I can say. You want to find what rate means go to your statistics and look at them.

And to be sincere if you believe or not I do not mind. I consider that all this discussion which was at start a good one is due to the stupid fight you lead to an unsupportable TRASH.

And if you do not like what I write I do not mind as well and if you will start to bark against I do not mind as well.

The way all developed is painful for those who enjoyed years over the quality of CR4.

I have the feeling it is not any more what it was. The comments' level went down the only effective participation is many times only a search with Google and so on and so on and cherry on top it came to a low level (underground it would be better called) "discussion".

I reacted myself some times rough when I considered that the arguments were unfair but this time it went too far.

As I say I repeat mind what you want say what you want but stop it.

So you cannot prove anything.

As I said before, "Hot air" is cheap.....

If you REALLY had some facts, NOTHING AND NOBODY WOULD HAVE PREVENTED YOU EXPOSING THEM!!!

You have nothing....so easy to see thru!!

I think that you are some where not honest since you do not accept your own source of justification if it is used by some body else.

If what I wrote is "hot air" then ALL what you wrote is as well "hot air".

I, for many years, appreciated your interventions and dare say now that, may be, the number of years has a negative effect on your art of thinking.

To answer you maybe a little bit clearer:-

There are a few here, who apparently still do not realise that an opinion only, is just that, an opinion, not fact.

They are recommended to try posting some verifiable facts here, with a weblink or similar to support them and THEN, you will find that I react QUITE differently. I respect such posts far more.

To me, opinions are just "old wives tales". They may even be true, but who cares either way....

Here you can polarize the people broadly into two main groups and some "Lookers on!":-

Group "Opinions" - Post opinions but no facts and no weblinks to back them up. Cannot open weblinks and read or understand the content it would seem. Why that is, is not really obvious, and as I have no "facts" either way, just my opinion, and that is obviously not enough to rely on, so I keep it to myself for example. This group gets quickly upset if you do not believe/understand them fully, in spite of no proof being offered. They get rude and start calling others here childish names. Its a bit like the playground in a junior school with the big, dumb bullies.....nothing new. There are only a handful of them here. As they have seemingly found no online support (I do find that strange, you can find a lot on the web!), the fairy tale has to be made up in some manner....

Group "Facts" - Posts an opinion as well, but with weblinks and similar online infos supporting their point of view. After a time, they simply give up on reading the posts of the Group "Opinion" as the content of "Opinions" simply stays the same and often has little or nothing to do with the discussion on hand, who simply write, as J.J. always says, "A lot of who shot John!" (Rather fitting I feel!!!)

Group "Who say nothing at all" - this group do not actively participate in either of the above groups, due to being worried about being picked on.But appear to read everything posted!! Some send PMs of support. Some mention that they have posted an "Off Topic" or two, to teach someone a lesson - BFD!! Nice people, but weak.......Scared of being "Shot online" you might say!!!

Do have a great day in spite of me......

Nick: If I contributed the demise of sense and sensibility here on CR4, I apologize. It was wrong of me to attempt (by whatever means I had conveniently available, poor as they were) to convince Mr. Germany of anything. He is welcome to his opinion, but he needs to have the manhood to accept that I also have an opinion and I am just as entitled to my opinion as he is to his own.

If the bulk of members here wish me to leave CR4, that can be arranged.

You wrote:-

Andy: I am done arguing with a fool.

Here, let me help you, that is REALLY easy to fix, simply turn all the mirrors around in your house so that they face the wall!

A PERFECT FIX AND PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!

Happy now? No more arguing with a fool!!!

IN THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER, YOU HAVE NOT PRESENTED A SINGLE, VERIFIABLE FACT. NOT ONE. ONLY YOUR OPINIONS.

ITS EVEN SADDER THAT YOU DO NOT EVEN SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A *FACT*, *A SUPPORTING WEBLINK* AND AN *OPINION*!!!!!!!!

Please be so kind as to remind me of ALL the weblinks that you have posted here, ALL supporting your opinions! I don't remember even seeing a single one.....please let us know the Post #(s).

BUT AS YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED A SINGLE ONE OF MY MANY PREVIOUS QUESTIONS, I DOUBT THAT YOU CAN ANSWER THAT EITHER!!!

You usually go off and rant about some other opinion you have, instead of staying with the subject.

Really sad.

But just in case you can answer that final question, thanks in advance.....but believe me, I won't be holding my breath!!!

Surprise us all!!! ANSWER THE QUESTION FULLY!!!

You posted the following posts, all your opinion only:-

12, 32, 35, 36, 41, 56, 58, 59, 62, 79, 80, 81, 86, 87, 96, 98, 105.

Not a single weblink in any of them. Even Lyn posted a few if I remember correctly, though not checked!!!!

I posted 7 weblinks to support my comments. 7 more than you did!!

So stop arguing with that FOOL IN THE MIRROR and get searching on the web for supporting data!!!! But I feel it may be a long search.....

May I simply ignore you till you start posting GOOD weblinks that support your thoughts and attitude?

I will take that as a YES !!!

SEE YOU MUCH, MUCH LATER!!

Andy: I am not the one here that has totally lost his cool. I am not the one yelling, either in bold, or in all caps. To my mind, it is you who are rude beyond measure. I was merely suggesting that you are English or mad, or both. I certainly have no statistics or web links to prove that. As for mirrors, I can live with what I see in the mirror every morning, can you?

Definition of fool: a rebellious one (according to the King James Bible), who insists there is no God, and even says this within his own heart. Modern day definition of fool from Merriam-Webster dictionary:

Full Definition of FOOL

1 : a person lacking in judgment or prudence 2 a : a retainer formerly kept in great households to provide casual entertainment and commonly dressed in motley with cap, bells, and bauble b : one who is victimized or made to appear foolish : dupe 3 a : a harmlessly deranged person or one lacking in common powers of understanding b : one with a marked propensity or fondness for something <a dancing fool> <a fool for candy> 4 : a cold dessert of pureed fruit mixed with whipped cream or custard I am not even going to state which of the four main definitions fits you most closely, although, as to myself, I suspect it is #1 -since it so pointless to argue with someone who argues with his eyes wide shut. Maybe you seem to fit with either of 3(b), or 4, your choice.

Fact: The sky is blue.

If you want to argue that point, I rest my case.

WHAT! STILL NO VALID WEBLINKS AGAIN SUPPORTING YOUR OPINIONS!!!!

WHAT A SURPRISE!!

I hardly see Dictionary entries as qualifying personally, but if you do........be happy! You finally posted some links. Isn't it easy to do?

It appears that you needed to understand those simple words better.

For me, it was not necessary to post the explanations, in fact that was totally puerile!

(Do you need the explanation for the "P" word I used?)

Andy, it me again. Your most "love to hate" person on CR4. Hopefully this will not activate your Tom Corbbett Super Ray Gun of Wrath. Andy, I'm really not a bad guy. I help old ladies cross the street and all those good things.

With your penchant for internet citation I'm at a loss. I don't automatically believe something because it is from the internet. Remember the space creatures at Grover's Mill which was broadcast on radio? If it is on the radio it must be true especially if it Orsan Wells, such a well known figure.

Oh, by the way I own 2 shotguns, 2 pistols, and 3 rifles. Shutguns were my great-grandfather's (Damascus barrel} and my grandfather's; I bought on pistol, a .22 which was great for killing rats (the rodent kind) at the local garbage dump and a "Dirty Harry" .44 magnum I inherited; rifles are .22, 30-30 lever action, and a xxxx. Never shot one in anger, other than to kill a rat that climbed up my leg, and for the last 40 years only used for target or demonstration purposes. Never killed anyone. Not a member of the NRA, any suprematist groups or any of the things you have accused others and myself as being. I'm also not an urban or rural thug.

Since you insist on citations I would like to include the following:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=idiot

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/learner/idiot

https://www.google.com/search?q=bad+attitude+quotes&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox&tbm=isch&imgil=tO2TyQS211j1yM%253A%253B_hpt7apoWjZiqM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Finspirably.com%25252Fquotes%25252Fby-rino-xentrius-martinez%25252Fa-bad-attitude-is-like-a-flat-tire-youll-never-go-anywhere&source=iu&pf=m&fir=tO2TyQS211j1yM%253A%252C_hpt7apoWjZiqM%252C_&usg=__dizkNThStimi-5ziYXTddnLr7vA%3D&biw=1194&bih=496&ved=0CCwQyjc&ei=dOVUVfDDHJHmsATFq4G4DA#tbm=isch&tbs=rimg%3ACd6lL9_1ZxGlwIjgjj-PMX0f2gsySwhq3vSqBKWcSs_1zXgsiz57-FC8FLl-pSkccfXAJNMdDM_1VdB5rxpFKd7Wov-kioSCSOP48xfR_1aCEUSCBOIobVMfKhIJzJLCGre9KoERMi2Mzktij3YqEgkpZxKz_1NeCyBG0sEpmMDp1-yoSCbPnv4ULwUuXEVrV7O3O-uHIKhIJ6lKRxx9cAk0RE7vSb7dBgUAqEgkx0Mz9V0HmvBE--z25IDOqiSoSCWkUp3tai_16SEUPiFX8TtSeq&q=bad%20attitude%20quotes&imgdii=3qUv39nEaXBAzM%3A%3B3qUv39nEaXBAzM%3A%3BMdDM_VdB5rxN0M%3A

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/bad_attitude.html

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/nothing_is_impossible-with_the_right_attitude-you/330313.html

http://letstalklifenothingisimpossible.blogspot.com/2014/09/correct-attitude-and-dedicated-action.html

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/self-righteous

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/self-important

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-legends-ohio/134588-lost-french-gold-minerva-ohio.html

http://www.prairieghosts.com/jerseydevil.html

http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/a-1564-visitor-to-florida-leaves-a-trail-of-mystery/1071075

http://www.weirdus.com/states/florida/

http://www.weirdus.com/states/west_virginia/stories/roadkill_cook_off/index.php

http://www.weirdus.com/states/west_virginia/stories/weeping_woman/index.php

REMEMBER THEY ARE ALL TRUE AND VALID CITATIONS SINCE THEY CAME FROM THE INTERNET.

Andy, thank you for the opportunity to add a little humor to my day by searching the internet for these items. I rather enjoyed that part but like most others we wish you would become one of the team instead of an adversary. You are smart, have many resources from your experiences but they get lost in the personal presentation. Please don't put the wrath of CR-42 on me or others. It mostly gets shrugged off as it gets worse. Don't bother to reply to this. I've had all the humor that I can handle today. Saw my brother-in-law, what a laugh!

Good Luck, Old Salt

Funny, I have copied a few to use again sometime, beware!!

Something went wrong with the text, all complete rubbish as usual!

Many thanks for the cartoons.

I always think it says "Old Dolt". It rhymes so well!! and SO close to reality I feel!!

Well, Andy, I've given up trying to find stats on violent crime in the US. The FBI has enough data to choke a cavalry brigades horses and it's all carefully broken down-too much so. If you want to bother mining this stuff, go ahead. Here is the link. Sorry it's in plain language instead of as a usable link but I couldn't get the page to accept it that way. <www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-us/2012/crime-in-the-us.-2012/0ffenses-known-to-law-enforcement/> Note however, this only represents the basic crime and possible arrest. It doesn't address possible court adjudication which can include anything from a plea bargain to a determination by judge or judge and jury, and what that determination is - not guilty? guilty? guilty of a reduced crime? or in the case of a violent crime not guilty by virtue of self defense. Have fun! Note too that a determination of self defense before any arrest occurs, is not likely to appear here, even though violence occurred.

AS far as the UN stats you used, try the WHO. Their rate per 100,000 is half of your statistic. And remember, statistics are prepared by humans who sort data, usually to suit a bias in their favor.

Thanks for youŕ thoughts and ideas, but the URL you kindly posted only gave the following message:-

This page does not seem to exist…

Please try again later or revise your url.

Very frustrating......I chopped off some bits trying to get "in", to no usefull effect.

It is also possible that people (me) with an external to the USA IP address are simply not allowed "in".....

Also, it could be that something is missing at the end of the link as you posted it possibly, can you check it out and re-post please if you find the problem?

Thanks in advance for both your time and trouble.

I suppose it's asking too much for the guys (not you in particular) in this rancorous exchange, and in thread Rear View Mirror, might kiss and make up?

....you are forgetting that common sense is dead, so kissing and making up is not likely or expected.

If we had any common sense we'd stop following this too, but there is the entertainment value.

Common sense must be dead.

You're right, but I'm beginning to wish I hadn't posted, so didn't keep being told there's another comment.

I don't know about the kiss, but there could be a group hug.