Pull Or Push: Pumping Water up to 15ft in Height

Push it real good!!

In my opinion, you will want to use a Tesla bladeless turbine as a air-driven motor, and a waterfall driven (push) pump on the same drive shaft (similar to an internal combustion engine with a turbo boost that is driven by both air intake and exhaust on the same shaft). I have used a 20ft waterfall, which drove a 10-plate Tesla Turbine, to pump water up a 3ft elevation of a 10ft slope; however, even with a floating surface flume at the top of the waterfall feeding into a flexible hose that forced water into the Turbine inlet manifold, the flowrate was not consistent enough to effectively work during periods of summer drought. I thought that you may be trying to build a perpetual motion, free energy, water transfer loop... but to answer your question, it would be easier to push the water from the lower elevation than to pull (vacuum) fluid uphill.

If you watch the short video (below) it demonstrates the multiple uses of a Tesla Turbine, as a highly efficient air driven motor and transfer pump. Note: the more plates you have on the Tesla pump shaft, the more kinetic energy that is stored, and potential work output.

I wish you luck in your endeavor.

Simple Tesla Turbine demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PdzaYwgQBE

Simple Magnetic Motor demo (not a hoax):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLek_3Hpwus

Why not simply use steam to drive the turbine, and power the pump. I like the Tesla turbines and pumps, air is perhaps not the best option (unless you add a compressor and a heat source, thereby creating an open Brayton cycle (jet engine) out of it.

ow! I just wanted to listen to the water flowing over some rocks and now we're building turbines!

Well, that's what you get for asking a simple question. ¡¡

No matter how you design your cascading, waterfall mill, it will be similar to a Rube Goldberg contraption.

I always look for the most efficient means, minimum essential design and, if possible, a free energy device.

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Even though the deeds of 'Good' and 'Evil' are opposites, reality and circumstance are the factors that will define what is right and wrong in the eyes of the beholder. -Greg Bradford

OR you can buy a small submersible pump, plug it in on a long...long extension cord (nevermind the local electrical codes or the firemarshall inspection){also I disavow any knowledge of directly telling you to do this}, and run it all night pumping uphill, then release the "torrent" when company comes over for a garden party.

Any number of industrial supply houses, home improvement centers and the like will be happy to sell you a pond pump, an irrigation pump, or whatever else satisfies the itch.

Being involved in the water feature business as the supplier of submersible pumps, I can say that a well designed waterfall is a pleasure. The guys that are good at it can economize the path to get the maximum audio and visual effect from a minimum amount of flow.

Tom,

I know you already have your answer and sometimes we go a bit overboard on our designs and enthusiasm when there is a project afoot!

Have fun with the waterfall, I wish I had room to do something like that. (Maybe I will in my front yard when I get that project started!)

Here is my simple answer.

• Use a submersible pump at the "pond" end and pump to the waterfall head.
• Run your wiring to a waterproof electrical box near the pond but in a "dry" area.
• At the waterfall stilling head, use a dispersion pipe filled with plastic netting to slow the water down and paint it the color of the rocks. Or black?
• Fill with water and enjoy.
• Post pictures when you are done!
• 

Thanks. That sounds about right! I fully understand the "overboard" bit, I tend to participate in that myself! Heck if we can't have fun here, where can we??

So very true.

The projects and questions I have posted have typically taken me in a different direction due to the fact that now there are 50 eyes on it rather than my 2 nearsighted ones!

I feel like the advice is given to me in the best possible way as long as I am honest regarding the question and reply to the posts.

Something that a lot of AP's don't do!

There are times I take breaks from the constant barrage of the internet because sometimes it is just too much of everything!

I happen to be in a lull in my job. I finished all the work too fast and now I'm bored and really have so little to do that I would rather take a nap!

Hell, I'm being honest!

Well, now I just got some work. I wonder how long it's going to take me to install 4 large blue wire nuts? (My entire days work right there)

Unless you are color coding your wire nuts, try to find a different color,,,, that should take awhile.☼

Reading and tinkering with answers to this post gave me another application in my own home plant:

(1) We have at least one or two low-lying areas in the plant where this is rudimentary dirt road for water truck traffic, and the area generally floods even with a 1/2" rain. This leads to deep ruts, extra wear and tear on the truck, etc. Maintenance recently decided to "deal with" this by applying gravel to the road, but this did not substantially eliminate the soft mud below the gravel...with obvious results of continued rut formation.

(2) Suppose "we" installed a leachate field (flow in reverse) with gravel and collection pipes to a catchment well of 15 ft. depth and diameter of say 36"? Then we install a wind turbine on that (Savonius for low wind start up, and higher torque at small diameter by increasing height to near half the main turbine building nearby). The pump could be made to be centrifugal by using a wheel-on-wheel system to increase rotation speed, or could be a simple up and down plunger pump using typical wind mill gearing? I am quessing that because both the wind turbine and the pump shaft are to be vertical, the up and down motion might be more difficult to engineer?

Maybe someone could suggest alternatives? Have the wind turbine spin up an alternator and power a battery driven pump? After all, the water comes down in a fairly short time, but sits there for days on end. At worst, dispense with the wind turbine and count this as an intermittant auxilliary power load within the power plant?

I once had a similar problem in my shipping yard(and other roadways and even parking lots) used by heavy trucks and hydro-porters and of course cars.

Start with a good layer of 2" clear on the roadway(at least 12" thick and 1 1/2 times as wide as your road). This will be driven into the existing roadway or sub base by the regular traffic. Depending on sub base, may take another layer of 2" as well. Next step, 3/4" clear on top of the 2" clear, same process, followed by some granular A material once the 3/4" is ground in. The 2" and 3/4" clear will act as a culvert or french drain below your road. You may have to slow down your traffic and make sure they don't use the same path every time at the start, but eventually you should have a really good roadbed to drive on above the water level.

Worst case I had was a sink hole about 10' square where the hydro-porter ran. It took about 8 loads of 2" clear, 4 loads of 3/4" clear and then the granular, but the hydro-porter didn't sink out of sight any more.

You could harness the rolling weight of the truck to do some pumping.

I see. Have the truck run over a storage bladder, that is somehow spring loaded to refill after he rolls past? I can't wait to see that one in action!

It would have to be a ramp acting on a check valved bladder or heavy duty fuel transfer hose. Somebody is probably using something like this, somewhere, right now.

One thing I just remembered,,,, on that big sink hole, I used gabion stone first.

I've no idea of distances, but keep dumping hardcore in the ruts until it bottoms out on hard ground, then build it up with finer hardcore and gravel. It is self-draining.

PS: Re your other comments to my post. Dumping sewage from a boat into the canal is in breach of regulations and is a 'no no'.

Pump-out stations exist along the route at boatyards at regular intervals - but for some reason by bad luck, passing them outside normal business hours. There are some automated stations operated by a pre-purchased credit card.

In my case I have fitted a DIY system for use in emergencies. A macerator pump on board that dumps sewage at normal disposal points - the 'bucket-and-chuck it' sort. Usually these are at canal level with the boat and usually close by - so small bore pipe can be used - which is essential for reasons of compactness to allow stowage when cruising.

My 'uphill' pumping problem is related to my home base.

Tom- Your comment reminded me of this "Far Side" cartoon.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/bd/8a/93/bd8a93058d3ed4aa906ac0e9a99e822f.jpg

That looks more like my wife going off at the steel fence contractors of late.

I have a similar problem of pumping uphill, about 10ft, but in my case it is to empty water and solids from the sewage holding tank of my narrowboat.

Suction works in theory but found not to be very effective in practice. After various attempts I ended up with a petrol driven diaphragm pump. Even that had its problems. The portable lightweight 2" flexible outlet hose to the drain vibrated and flexed so much as the pump pulsated that it wore holes in places where the hose rubbed the rough ground...you can guess what happened.....especially going through the motions of clearing up...

The next job is to lay a fixed rigid pipe to the drain just below ground level, and use short flexible hoses at the pump to connect it to the boat.

You need to use a smoother operating sewage pump, maybe even a progressing cavity pump....IDK, but IF this were me, I would do it safely and also I might employ something like a large orifice eductor on a larger circulation of water (depending on where the actual sewage is being shot off to). Obviously, on a boat where the body of water could be a potable water reservoir, dumping raw sewage will get you a hefty fine, or at least it should. If one were way out in the middle of the ocean, do not whales also have to attend to the call of nature?

I cannot for the life of me think of why these used to be called "sanitary pumps"...is that because of the affinity of pump parts for "sanitary" napkins? English is fraught with too many euphemisms for the actual thing...call the thing what it is, not what you would like it to be in dreamy land.