Previous in Forum: Problem In Parallel Operation Of Transformers   Next in Forum: Dover Hydraulic 2 Landing Elevator 1976 Vintage.
Close
Close
Close
22 comments
Participant

Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1

2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/29/2015 7:19 PM

Is it possible to purchase 2 phase hydro coin operated or token operated meters to fit to cottages so that guests pay for the hydro they use?

We can purchase 1 phase and 3 phase meters from the UK but can`t find a company making 2 phase for use in Canada or America?

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Eastern Arizona mountains on Route 666 about a mile from God's country
Posts: 1676
Good Answers: 122
#1

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/29/2015 8:06 PM

http://rdlmeters.com/

Here you go.

__________________
They said; "Brain size?" I heard; "Train size?" so I said: "I'll take a small one, thank you."
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42291
Good Answers: 1662
#2

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/29/2015 8:08 PM

Um, most residential power in the US is 1 phase.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 117
Good Answers: 15
#12
In reply to #2

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/30/2015 11:30 PM

Every house i have lived in in US in last 68 years has had two phases of 110 volts in the panel. I use 208/220 for electric clothes dryer, oven, hot water tank, a/c condenser, 5hp air compressor, and assorted items using twist lock plugs. The rest of the house standard 110 outlets are balanced on either phase in the panel. I recall some stories given as warnings near Niagra Falls, NY that some very old 230 volt single phase 50 cycle existed resulted from early, before accepted standards. Of course potential damage to modern standard computerized equipments.

__________________
For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Wannabeabettawelda

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Posts: 7193
Good Answers: 416
#14
In reply to #12

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/31/2015 12:45 AM

I hate to break it to you but that is single-phase, center-tapped. Lyn is absolutely right. Two phase power is 90 degrees phase shifted. It's a rather old, arcane power transmission method.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-phase_electric_power

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 117
Good Answers: 15
#15
In reply to #14

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/31/2015 1:02 AM

Interesting. So measuring across two legs of same phase yields ; a) 0volts. b) 110 volts. c) 220 volts? Using a dual trace oscillascope shows two phases out of phase? If the supply to house is single phase 208, where is the split to get 110 volts? Single phase 208 would use one conductor plus netural, right? My measurements at meter from street always show two conductors with 110 volts measured to neutral that is grounded to earth.

__________________
For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
Register to Reply Score 2 for Off Topic
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#19
In reply to #15

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/31/2015 9:41 AM

Your conclusion is wrong, not the reading!!

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 117
Good Answers: 15
#16
In reply to #14

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/31/2015 2:23 AM
__________________
For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#18
In reply to #12

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/31/2015 9:39 AM

Residential power today? Never....

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#17
In reply to #2

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/31/2015 9:37 AM

Dare I say all residential power?

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 20964
Good Answers: 780
#3

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/29/2015 8:35 PM

Whatever locale this is, there may be regulations about reselling electric power and other utilities. Make sure to comply.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 30965
Good Answers: 1727
#4

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/29/2015 8:58 PM
__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 335
#5

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/29/2015 9:36 PM

you can do some interesting project.

__________________
"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."
Register to Reply
2
Guru
Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member United Kingdom - Big Ben - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Altair 8800 - New Member Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3968
Good Answers: 119
#6

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/29/2015 10:04 PM

In Ontario, Canada, you are allowed to pro-rate electricity charges by square footage or other general measure, but if you want to measure each persons useage, you have to install a meter for each user.

A friend of mine had a ten plex, so he pro rated. Then he got complaints from those that had no air conditioners in summer and no heaters in winter, as they could not figure out why their bills were so high. The people with air an extra heaters grinned, as they were getting a free ride. So he said meters for all, at your cost, now they all pay the $80 bi-monthly fee, plus their metered useage.

All tenants costs are less than the bi-monthly fee, so that exercise more than doubled their costs. The hogs with heat and air got whacked as well, even more so.

__________________
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 4216
Good Answers: 194
#7

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/30/2015 1:13 AM

Define "hydro".

If you're talking about electric power, how do you know it comes from hydroelectric sources?

If you are talking electric power, there's no such thing as 2-phase - anywhere. No wonder you can't find 2-phase meters - anywhere!

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 20964
Good Answers: 780
#8
In reply to #7

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/30/2015 4:21 AM

Not quite true. Somewhere (in Pennsylvania, iirc) there is still a real 2-phase system with 90-degree separation. That makes it sufficient to start motors of the right type.

It didn't take long for Steinmetz and/or Tesla to improve the idea to 3-phase.

In general, though, 2-phase is nonexistent.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 4216
Good Answers: 194
#9
In reply to #8

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/30/2015 4:36 AM

Thanks for the clarification.

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 20964
Good Answers: 780
#10
In reply to #9

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/30/2015 5:53 AM

It's a historical tidbit, basically. I don't even remember how I learned of it. (Nor how long it might still last.)

Plus, it gives me a chance to plug Steinmetz as much as or more than Tesla.

There is an excellent play, "A Peep into the Twentieth Century", that dramatizes the Edison/Westinghouse DC/AC contentions.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Fans of Old Computers - PDP 11 - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stronger Than The Storm
Posts: 2391
Good Answers: 202
#13
In reply to #8

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/31/2015 12:10 AM

Tornado-

Yes, it is in what is called Inner Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA. Also known sometimes as the "City of Brotherly Love" and the place where the Declaration of Libery was signed.

There was quite a discussion on this in a blog posted 12/16/15, 110 volt Phase Question. There were several good technical explanations and some common sense answers about two phase. If he refers to my contribution #26 it may help him understand why he has single phase (with a center-tap) and not two phase.

Good Luck, Old Salt

__________________
Any day on the green side of the grass is a GREAT DAY!, --- me +++++++++. I believe creativity is an inherent part of everyone. --- Kermit T. Frog
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Project Managers & Project Engineers - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 624
Good Answers: 33
#11

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/30/2015 7:27 AM

If I am a paying 'Guest' at a cottage I am renting...I expect it to be furnished with Hydro at no additional cost whatever 'Hydro' is....

I suspect many of your 'guests' feel the same way and probably will rent somewhere else next year.

__________________
Hey Isaac, catch! ...oops, that's gonna leave a mark...
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#20

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/31/2015 9:50 AM

I hope that any meters bought are properly designed to work on US 220 VAC, working with two HOT ends of a single phase can be dangerous for the uninitiated. Its killed a lot of US citizens already.....

UK built meters for example are not usually correctly designed for the USA.....they expect one line to be grounded, not a point somewhere between them the two connections!!!

There needs to be a circuit breaker (or similar) that "breaks" both lines simultaneously in the event of an over current or a short to ground.

The US citizens here will know what is best.

Why can the meter not be designed to run on 120 VAC?

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 161
#21

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

12/31/2015 11:29 AM

No such animal, but you can make it "meter" electrical use by demanding your cottage customers use pennies dropping through a slot that "make" the contact (you can even still install a fuse box downstream of this). If the customers drop enough pennies through the slot fast enough, they could even watch TV.

I think you should be horse-whipped for even thinking about making the customers pay for electricity above and beyond the Pocono cottage rental fees. What a gouger you are. Good luck getting any business at all. If the problem has been customers using too much leckityleck, then maybe you could (1) install a timer on the cottage electrical connection that is apparently limited to so many active hours per day, but how to get the timer to run only when the user is pulling current....ideas anyone??, or (2) do the electrical the way minions would: install a treadmill and a banana hanging from a string just out of reach, put an alternator on the treadmill, and a battery/inverter bank. Buddy, Buddy, Banana, Banana!!! Of course having the instructions in Minion would also help get the children involved in generating their own "juice".

If this is for some white supremacist camp in Idaho, I suggest you re-weigh your options from an inverted viewpoint: tuck your Nazi head between your legs and kiss your arse goodbye.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 794
Good Answers: 80
#22

Re: 2 Phase Hydro Coin Operated Meters?

01/06/2016 12:47 PM

Many seem to be thinking Parkway1 is trying to charge for electricity.

My read is that the OP wants to charge for water (hydro). Maybe there is a cistern or some other limited water supply that OP wants to discourage the overuse of.

OP can you clarify?

__________________
"Why do things that only happen to stupid people keep happening to me?" Homer Simpson
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 22 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Andy Germany (4); aurizon (1); Beenaround (3); Brave Sir Robin (1); James Stewart (1); jhowdy (1); lyn (1); Massey (1); Mikerho (2); Mr. small (1); old salt (1); SHOCKHISCAN (1); SolarEagle (1); Tornado (3)

Previous in Forum: Problem In Parallel Operation Of Transformers   Next in Forum: Dover Hydraulic 2 Landing Elevator 1976 Vintage.

Advertisement