How do You Feel About the Economy Since the Election?

Pretty much the same here as well. Like you we have dozens of reasons to feel hopeful and actually look forward to what may come in the next few years.

People have optimism and hope in their eyes again. The political monsters are being killed off and the screaming minority are getting gagged so that we can live our lives under more rational realistic rules and expectations.

Where I live agriculture and the oil industry ar king so for us knowing that the tables are being turned on government agencies like the EPA and other regulatory agencies who have went insane with greed and power are the ones who will be getting the life choked out of them for a change so we can have our lives back gives us great hope for our future.

It's been awhile since people had reason to think that tomorrow just might actually be better than today because more rational minds with more realistic goals are in charge again and we like it!

I appreciate the feedback.

As an aside, to me it's starting to feel like the Reagan years. I'm hopeful that the political cronies and bloated government agencies will be corrected/fixed. There are some who aren't happy with the regime change. I understand that they're worried - it's still early and even though he's made one heck of a lot of progress in the short time he's been in charge, we don't know what effect the changes will have, long term.

I once heard that the true test of how well a president did is to see how the country is 10+ years after he leaves office. If we use this as a yardstick, we can see that Reagan left the country in great shape. Bush Sr - I don't think he did a whole lot, except continue some of Reagan's work. Clinton ... 2010+ hasn't been good economically. Dubya? We'll see. And Obama?

NO Blew 3 trillion, do you see new highways, bridges tunnels power stations, anything?????

I agree, but want to withhold judgement for about 6-8 months.

What you describe is the classic "beginning of the end" for such downturns as the world has experienced in the last few years.

People (who have the option to make a choice) have lived closer to the frugal end of the spectrum and consolidated their position. They are beginning to feel that it's not getting worse, so they can begin to relax a little.

Notice though that you've highlighted short term discretionary expenditure like food, entertainment and even vehicles.

The next phase will be when people are buying houses and expenditure that requires them to commit to payments over decades.

In Aus, some of us also got hit by the GFC (My employer was direct supplier to the big two in Detroit. We were closed literally overnight.) but oursituation didn't get as bad as lots of other places. House prices didn't go backwards, but people retained their cars for an extra year or two and tended to pay down their credit cards.

All those years of frugal living now mean that the reserves have been consumed and it's becoming time to re-stock. The economy will kickstart as a result of that additional consumption.

This phenomenon would probably have happened regardless of any election outcome, but rather just because people needed the "signal" that an era (the GFC, not any particular political perspective) was coming to an end.

There is actual fear in AUS that some sectors didn't sufficiently "reset" and there is actually a debt bubble. If interest rates rise by even 1% there would be significant loan defaults on housing.

When this cycle takes off, it's because of the cumulative impact of the population and the system dynamics.

Enjoy the ride to a renewed prosperity.

Great feedback! I also see what you wrote as a possibility. The general public is typically the last to the party, thus when they're spending heartily, that typically means the end of the economic cycle is near. So maybe the signal that things are okay and we can spend is the recent election? I don't know, but I find it interesting how the "feeling" is much brighter since the election.

Here in the US, the average age of a car is the oldest on record - late last year it was 11.6 years! That means the average car is a 2004-2005! And people are holding on to their cars longer - average 6.6 years! So you are correct that people are holding on to things like cars longer = being more frugal.

My hope is that this is the start of a second push up in our economy. Inflation is still low, so there's room to grow. The last administration didn't let our economy run - they were trying to keep it from falling back into a recession. When the focus of the government is fear of a recession, then the people will feel it and they'll hold back on spending. My feeling is that the new administration has an upbeat feeling about our future and many of the people feel it and believe it = looser purse strings.

We'll see what happens.

I don't know but I am also optimistic, unlike that guy Marilyn.

Thanks for your feedback. Who is Marilyn?

Who is Marilyn ? , trust me, you don't want to know.

Lyn is high class,,

Compared to M M

Ahh, Lyn's not such a bad guy. He's just suffering with a case of Trump Derangement Syndrome. I suffered from it myself for a while last year. Cut him some slack.

I find that when surrounded by fools, no words will help them.

My sentiment exactly, when surrounded by you. LOL

I think things are going swimmingly well. I think we need more time before some of the Oboober leaving office crap hits the fan. Mr. Trump has brought his cleaning supplies with him to the oval orifice, and turned it back into a work station.

The sky really is blue outside today, I did check a while ago.

Agreed

Careful now. If you agree with me too much certain others might take great liberal offence to that and start making bigger asses of themself to discredit you too!

I mean, you wouldn't want to be apart of what drove some fool into a full on terroristic rampage of destruction because they felt that would be the only way to show how sane and rational their views Vs yours are, Would you?

Yes, but without the responsibility, and also having full deniability.

Now you're just poking at things with a stick.

Rare I find a SNL skit funny but,

Dave Chappelle and Chris Rock together so...

Trump Election night.

Oh... that skit is not accurate, ... Where's the tears?...

where I grew up we had canyons for playgrounds. I had King snakes as pets. where you find Kings you find one of their favorite meals, Diamondback rattlers.One of my passtimes in the canyon was to caryy a 5-6 foot stick. Messing with rattlesnakes was an occasional amusement since rattlers behavior is so highly predictable. This is no different.

Oh you're so lucky you got a colorful brother. I enjoyed the character like the movies

It wasn't enjoyable to me. It was sad and a bit sick. Most everyone I know always talks about how their childhood was the most enjoyable time of their life and their siblings were their childhood best friends. I hated my childhood and had a dangerous unstable idiot for a bother.

All I got out of it was learning to defend myself with a solid belief that if anyone attacks don't defend. Go on the offense and don't let off until they are laying on the ground and its clear they are going to stay there until you let them get up.

It is funny... you, you nazi you....

Psychological Projection is simply a way that the mind convinces themselves of something that isn’t really true.

These inaccurate thoughts are usually used to reinforce negative thinking or emotions — telling themselves things that sound rational and accurate, but really only serve to keep them in a ‘childish’ mindset unconscious and unaware of all other possibilities.

Guess who?...

Oh no!,... I hear a drum circle forming...

When I started reading through this list, I found it interesting that someone would take the time to create such a lengthy list of rants.

Then I was disappointed to discover that it was not your list, that it was a copy of another person's compilation.

Do you have your own list ( self authored ) that you could post ?

I can't see the justification for a , " good answer " when it's not even your own works.

If copying something from the internet or another source garnered, " points" then several members here would have millions of them.

If copying something from the internet or another source garnered, " points" then several members here would have millions of them.

And they do. You see,... I just copied yours as well responding to the source,... but the correct way is referencing the source as tcmtech did.

But there is something that you may not realize,... you can't please everybody.

Anybody can copy something from the internet and cite the source.

That takes absolutely no talent whatsoever.

Just as a painter, sculpture or Lyricist creates their own works, this is real creation.

What should be presented is his own literary works.

Maybe then, I too, would provide a G A.

Just as a painter, sculpture or Lyricist creates their own works, this is real creation.

What should be presented is his own literary works.

What you are talking about is plagiarism... there is a difference as compared if you reference public domain work. The work posted is to reinforce the posters opinion. This is done on both sides, creating quite a stalemate.

Even scientific papers reference their work, are you taking that away also.... I don't think you've thought this one through.

Because if we go with your train of thought, CR4 would return to opinions with no factual resources to support ones opinion... whatever factual means now-a-days.

Thanks.

I do try to add a working link to most anything I use as a quote or reference from some other site.

You never know when I may plant a false quote or a contextually misrepresented one just to see who's paying attention to my counter debate points and if they will call me out on it.

Kinda sad how many I do slip by on certain members on certain subjects though. Basically left the ball lying unguarded on the court next to the goal where all they had to do is pick it up and walk it in for a win but, no. Still missed.

really now?? certain members routinely copy and paste directly out of wiki and fail to mention they are plagiarizing.

Stop pointing that finger at me. I contend it does not matter the source if the information is common knowledge.

The sky is blue - source unknown, personal communication, Wikipedia? you pick which, and then me what difference it makes.

I expect your reply to be: The sky is green (sometimes at certain latitudes), therefore it is not blue, and rattle off some obscure journal only you would know about.

LOL

Thank you! The funniest thing I have read all day. I know it is not nice to laugh at a drunk peeing in the median, but damn it, it is funny!

That is exactly why the rioters tend to burn down their " own " neighborhoods, rather than the focus of their disdain.

True that! Trump might have some extraordinary power to turn people to horrific nuts. Seem like the craze of one of MJ's performance.

Roaches are eaten by chickens.

You eat the chickens and, hence, the prions in the cockroaches enter your less-than-adequate cranial space to enter an even smaller cerebellum.

One business that's really booming is replacement windows.

Specific examples please? Just trying to get a better handle on this.

Okay - I am quite familiar with a company that was severely fined because of a misinterpretation of the EPA rules. There was a failure to submit a "short form" stating the company used hazardous substances, but the disposal of the waste was below reporting levels of their "long form" for three years. So they got fined daily for each day missed. Doesn't matter that they did submit a letter stating they thought they were exempt and why they thought so. EPA just waits a few years then conducts an on site survey and fines the crap out of the company after which they tell them the interpretation was incorrect.

Yes - if you fall below the weight limit for filing the long form for hazardous material disposal, which is a very long form that clearly defines amounts and disposal locations, you still need to tell them on a two page government form with standard company data and a simple statement that the disposals were below the cut off weight, that you believe you are below the reporting level and can just file this short form with basically no data on it. Maybe a bit too much regulation?

Oh - this hazardous substance is a metal with a lot of minor components that by them selves, not in a metal matrix, can be hazardous. The substance itself, before cut, welded or ground on is not considered hazardous.

That's the regulation problem I was referring to - everyday normal materials become hazardous industrial waste once you touch them in a factory or plant, or in your case, truck them to a well site.

In the old days, we used to get sand from Halliburton for the kids sand boxes. Now it is radioactive.

Guess I better house my train layout in a lead lined room. I used sand from a nearby gravel pit for the dirt roads and bare areas to keep it looking like this area in ground color.

You eat off a stainless steel fork and spoon, probably everyday, but just let a grinder touch that, and the grindings become a hazardous waste.

Careful with that lead. 38 isotopes, only four of which are not radioactive. The EPA will be banging on your door in no time, fines in hand. Don't bother pointing-out that they, too, are naturally radioactive or they'll deport you to some horrible place. Yuba City, CA or something.

I was trying to check some equipment last night in my bedroom:

Geiger counter, infrared thermometer, some other digital thermometers, and data logger for all the above.

I noticed the instantaneous count kept going up when I was close to the geiger tube. I think I may be getting sick. Normal seems to be 20-25 count/min, but when I am there it is more like 35.

Sick to my stomach right now.

And another - the vending machine at work has been ruined by regulations. We had a local restaurant running a vending company and stocking it with food they had cooked in the restaurant from fresh ingredients. However, there was no nutritional label on these. We now have regulations requiring nutritional labels on all vended food products. Restaurant couldn't afford to have their foods analyzed so they sold the business to a standard vendor. Now we have the same processed crap we can buy in the frozen food isles of Walmart. But - we have lots of bull**it information on the wrapper, which I never read. Now I just go home and wave the same crap at home for about half the cost.

Outcome of regulations:

a. Small business shut down

b. Extra 8 miles of driving everyday for myself.

c. The way it looks, the vending machines at work will soon be reduced to just bags of chips as no one else wants to buy the processed crap.

So take that all you who gave this post I am responding to a GA vote. tcmtech is correct and you know it. I look around and I know I come up with a lot more of these problems "corrected" by regulations, as I used to be a part time environmental co-ordinator, but got out when it became ridiculous to go on.

Regulation always start with good intentions prior to getting bloated.

Such as listing if the product was prepared with the same equipment that process peanuts. (for people with peanut allergy's)

The warning should be more specific:

A. Peanuts were previously prepared on this equipment.

B. Equipment of this type is used to prepare peanuts.

C. The operators of this equipment are planning to prepare peanuts.

D. This equipment is to be used to prepare peanuts after we prepare what we are presently preparing.

Of course, my post was a statement.

In Portland, Oregon and the local area, if I take anything with paint on it to the dump, I am required to get an inspection, test report, and certification of lead content by a local government approved testing agency. A broken fluorescent light bulb requires the use of an abatement service, test and certification of mercury cleanup. I pay business tax to the county, city, state, and the feds. I pay an art tax to put up public art. I pay a housing tax to subsidize low cost housing. I pay for enhanced sheriff's patrol to have a police officer drive through the neighborhood once a day. I pay $10 a month for water, $23 for sewer, and $115 for environmental clean water administrative services (a local government agency) even though I have no hazardous discharges. I'm not allowed to have disposable plastic shopping bags. I pay for emissions testing on my car every two years (although they don't actually test car emissions). This is just what I recall at the moment.

Sounds like things were better back when the only fee was non-government fee paid to local mobsters for "protection", or "insurance".

Of course you are certainly welcome to continue living in that hell hole where they want to make every decision for you, then when you are old, they sick the Dr. Death on you.

Screw that, I will not go quietly into that night, thank you, but no.

Sounds like things were better back when the only fee was non-government fee paid to local mobsters for "protection", or "insurance".

ahhh,.. that still goes on

The failure rate of small businesses is pretty high.

"About two-thirds of business survive 2 years in business, half of all businesses will survive 5 years, and one-third will survive 10. The longer a company has been in business, the more likely it is to stay in business—it’s those first few years that are the hardest."

https://www.fundera.com/blog/small-business-statistics

I suspect that the extra burden of government regulations contributes to the failure rate.

The longer a company has been in business, the more likely it is to stay in business—it’s those first few years that are the hardest."

aaahhh of course! There has been a number put on it as 7 years, if it can make 7 years, it is stable to last

My wife works for the SBA. The greatest reason why failure occurs in small business is the lack of understanding of how to run a business. I have been to many of her lectures and i understand the failure rate. Ask someone if they have a business plan and you get a blank look or ask if they depreciate their operational equipment or how they account for inventory loss.

Just because you can make a good hamburger and fries does not qualify you to open a hamburger restaurant.

That's true also,... that's always been true.

SBA lenders usually has a workshop for their small business clients and would be foolish not to take these courses/workshops... but those like a lot of SB owners, the decision is theirs to take or not to take.

And we have the nursing home industry just waiting for a collapse from even more insane over regulation. My Wife is a DON at one and she says her RN's spend a majority of the day doing record keeping and paper work. They seldom do "hands on" work. She has a very difficult time keeping nurses anymore - the hospital and private doctor offices offer work more in tune to what a person with a degree in nursing is expecting to do. The latest regs have been published and she has studied them. They are to be phased in over 2 years - she fully intends to be out of there before the third phase takes effect. She says she would not want to try to comply with the third phase of these regulations.

I missed Trump promising any relief in this industry.

Nursing is an oddity... where I am, the facilities are offering RN's fresh out of school, with offers more then an RN working there already with 7-10 years experience.

And then a bonus on top of it.

Yes - my wife is quite familiar with bribes to get new nurses. It doesn't really work well.

it works well, that is if the intent is upsetting the current RN's.

Its way too early to tell. The optimism is higher that its been for a very long time.

On a personal experience (Design and fabrication of Process equipment) One of the biggest issues business owners have been insurance. That would include employee health and businesses. As a business owner, one needs to be competitive. With good and reasonable insurance to the employee, with the business pays half or 100%. With ObamaCare, that changed to a point of getting around it. Have insurance for the employees have been difficult, but it seems you pass the costs of this to the customer or the employee to pick up more of the tab.

For business insurance, the risk is pretty high for a OEM, hence, so are the premiums, I have seen where once your Certificate of Insurance requirement from the customer was at $2 million... Now its at $9 Million.

The second difficulty would be taxes.

There are some advantages to reducing the taxes though... of course coming from the government, and that would be capital equipment investment credit. You invet in the business to grow. This helps, but one has to use caution.

And yes, this should be in the break room. There are too many 'baiters' here that were giving their 'opinions' on November 9th and passing it off as fact.

"The second difficulty would be taxes.

There are some advantages to reducing the taxes though... of course coming from the government, and that would be capital equipment investment credit. You invet in the business to grow. This helps, but one has to use caution.;"

The way I came to understand it was that for a small business if they make it to the ~ 7 year mark they typically have grown enough to fit into the financial standing level of being 'well enough off to afford to not pay taxes' so to speak as in now having enough viable annual writeoffs and resources in play as to technically not have to directly pay the taxes that were early on a huge financial hit as a lesser business.

Sort of being in the range to run an equivalent of being tax free so long as they keep growing. Now however as countless small businesses have found out the downside is if they hit a bad run of a year or two and can't support the growth that was required to keep their tax payout low or they just decide to shut down and sell off will inevitably mean they will be in a way getting hit hard on back tax regarding any selling off of resources or worse.

My aunt and Uncle have been running a cattle ranch for near 30 years and thanks to them having hit that point of having enough tax writeoffs a year years ago they have ran near tax free for the last 20+ years steadily growing the whole time.

The down side is now they have hit the growth limit of how much further they can expand plus age wise are nearing retirement so they are looking at a very grim reality that in order to pass on the business to their kids or just shut down entirely and cash out the tax hit is outrageously huge!

Huge beyond all the past avoided tax payments from annual operating writeoffs combined to a value that well exceeds half the fair market value they could ever hope to get out of selling off.

The way I came to understand it was that for a small business if they make it to the ~ 7 year mark they typically have grown enough to fit into the financial standing level of being 'well enough off to afford to not pay taxes'

That depends on your business model,.... ^{(some small business owners say What's a business model?)}

To a certain degree, your statement of 'well enough off to afford to not pay taxes' , That's not quite entirely true and is misunderstood that may be due to the business being established enough to be able to take of depreciation off of capital investment as a write-off on your buildings, equipment. and the like,..., or even rental,.... but that depreciation runs out.

I'm also not going to get into capital investment 'credit' as a tax return write-off.

It depends on what your accountant tells you,... Your accountant is your business partner btw, you can take a period of time to write depreciation off, some as low as 3 years, but lets say 10 years for the most part.

If you don't pay close enough attention, as per my warning in the post you responded to. You can be hosed quite literally and pay a small fortune in taxes if you are not careful. You really don't know until your established, and its bad when its up to your accountant telling.

One thing good, on a "S' type corporation, if you had a bad year and show a loss, you can spread and carry over that loss through multiple years.

And this is what gets the liberals up in a Tissy ^{(as demonstrated in the break room after their candidate lost)} with big corporations, when they carry over their losses and get a refund. ^{(I believe GE was one of them back in 2009 or 2010).} But a company that big, has a army of accountants working on it.

And Farming is different, in Wisconsin we pay no fuel (gas only) tax, or sales tax for farm use. But if our farm is anything like others, after spending your life, paying your bills and working for below poverty level wages, that is when you pay yourself, your land and capital equipment is your retirement fund.

And the government wants to lower the estate tax exemption requirement for family farms I think it was at $650,000.00 and due with out it all together, but I can't recall.

"It depends on what your accountant tells you,... Your accountant is your business partner btw, you can take a period of time to write depreciation off, some as low as 3 years, but lets say 10 years for the most part.

If you don't pay close enough attention, as per my warning in the post you responded to. You can be hosed quite literally and pay a small fortune in taxes if you are not careful. You really don't know until your established, and its bad when its up to your accountant telling."

That right there is the #1 problem I keep hearing about, Accountants that are not up to speed on all the changes that go with their work missing something then having it come back to hit a person devastatingly hard far later.

Then add in the fact that most people who hire accountants hire them because they have no clue how to do that degree of accounting themselves so they in turn would have no idea what to watch for anyway to know what their hired persons missed until it's too late to do anything about it but watch a life's worth of work get ripped away over some long past overlooked paperwork detail.

For a small time operator like myself and knowing of too many local examples of that sort of stuff having had happened to good people who had good business then cashed out and the fear of having it happen to me is a very real and valid concern over ever wanting to expand to any degree beyond ever being more than a one man business.

My bills are paid, everything I own is paid for and I continue to slowly grow while still staying well within my ability to keep track of it all myself. Sure I don't get tax write offs or any of that but at least if I wanted to I could cash out and not get hit on much if any of it.

It might not take me very far but it beats getting pounded into the ground financially right when a guy thinks they are set well enough to retire and live a good end of life for his life's work.

When I was at the farm, my sister prepared the paperwork for dad's accountant, there were times when we had to go to the implement dealer and make purchases and have him back dated to that previous tax year.

kinda PO'd one off, especially working for a few dollars a day.

You represent the proto typical Trump voter, congratulations. Reading your posts, it is clear you have never run a business. You are tired of working hard, and not getting ahead. You took the hook, and now you are swimming hard. The problem is that you think that Trump represents you, but in fact he has no empathy for a worker, respect for the environment, an unendowed person, those without capital or person without business acumen. This includes about 99% of the general population, which is in fact a strengthening of the one percent. When W Bush was reelected, I thought we would be punished internationally for our elective ignorance, and we were. But we survived. We will survive Trump. But a lying megla-maniac doesn't bode well for ou future. But if you think about today, instead of next year, and feel good about things that are irrelavent, life can be good. Rational thought is a rare commodity these days.

You represent the proto typical Trump voter,

You know nothing what a proto typical trump voter is. Just trying your best and failing to sound superior.

The rest of your post is just sniveling.

Try again...

Who has this supposed right to punish America for anything ever? I say screw them all, raid their puny little villages, and blood eagle their weak leaders. VIKINGS!!!!!

Well let me just add this confirming post. My wife, who is a registered Democrat and has ALWAYS voted for the Democratic nominee for President, voted Trump this time. Yesterday, without notice, she bought a smart TV to replace the kitchen TV. First time she has EVER conceded to buying one for there. Previous TV's for that location were a cast off from a relative or friend. Think that says a lot about her attitude on the economy and she is as conservative about money as E. Scrooge.

It's simple, the average person knew a depression would result if a crook under FBI investigation was elected. that didn't happen so people are less tense and fearful.

Yeah - until we get that 8' sea rise. Party on.

"Party on, Garth!"

ADMIN: Deleted Post

Inappropriate Image: This post (or part of this post) was deleted because it included an inappropriate image that violates the Rules of Conduct.

are these the navel oranges?

As of now, there are 97 companies that have written briefs to support the overturning of T. rump's immigration order. They don't think it helps their economies. Watch out for selective data, who is selecting, and where the money goes. I foresee a lot of buyers' remorse, not right away, but in some months.

their economies. or the countries economies.

Whose selective data, the companies data or the country's.

The elections over. Its about time you get over it too.

And it's interesting thing about those 97 companies... Facebook, Google, Twitter,... who they backed in the election, they have an agenda.

An example, I hear are words such as Racism, Nazi's and the like thrown around.

Lets look at some of these 97 company's ^{(Hillary Supporters of course)} definition of some of those terms,... fascism for instance.

I checked these and this is what it shows,...

See the difference in definitions. Or are these just alternative facts to you.

Now you can answer that, or,... as your normal response M.O. is distraction and instead to point out my grammar errors or some other type of diversion.

Look at who is defining what, and it should be obvious. These people will never stop until the first shovel full of dirt hits their face.

AT least this removes all doubt whom is on the side of whom. This might get bloody before it is over, since Americans are worn of being pushed around, corporately or otherwise.

CEO's you better hike up your britches and get with the plan, or be prepared to be boarded, and keel hauled.

ADMIN: Deleted Post

Abuse/Attack: This post was deleted because it was an attack on another user. Please review the Site FAQ and the Rules of Conduct.

Before trivializing or condoning remarks like his, you should have reexamined your own ethics.

It is the new shovel ready job: Whacking those miscreant children that go around sucker punching people (especially other children) in the head and nearly killing them, for no reason.

I am talking about liberal school teacher union protected thugs, the school teacher union, and the stupid asses that support that.

The term may be 'hard love". I heard the term before, but I never thought that it should be taken literally.

Who said I am a Christian? I wish I could be, but I hate liberals too much.

I am a pagan viking, worshipper of Odin, raider of villages with cheeto bags.

I get so tired of reading all this drivel on the left and on the right, that I just want to smash something. Probably something owned by or driven by a liberal, or a liberal's noggin.

I don't get to drink, although lately I could not tell any effect on my health if I did.

You left out "drag-hanging through a cactus patch", flaying, bull-whipping, drawing and quartering, lynch hanging kids that sucker punch other kids, sending kids that threaten other kids through the slaughter line at a packing house, burying liberals alive with just a string and bell to let us know they are still screaming (didn't even change the volume), and various other forms of cruelty, and unusual prejudicial treatment of enemies.

I am just sayin'.