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Really, Is This Necessary?

03/18/2018 3:33 PM

I was just paging through some adds, and I saw a used Grizzly planer and I decided to price what it’s new and came across this on Grizzly’s site.

California Proposition 65 Warning‘

Which is a warning, from the link that states....

’The list contains a wide range of naturally occurring and synthetic chemicals that include additives or ingredients in pesticides, common household products, food, drugs, dyes, or solvents. Listed chemicals may also be used in manufacturing and construction, or they may be byproducts of chemical processes, such as motor vehicle exhaust. ’

I’m guessing it’s the grease and oils on the machine, and is this ‘Warning’ really necessary, or have we became such minions of living under a gobpvernmental nanny state this is required for most Americans.

i know California has been like this for years, being from Wisconsin, I recall I had a installation crew on a process equipment we fabricated, where I was sending the tools separately to the work crew, and with the tools, I has some silicon spray, and I reviewed the requirements that because of that, I could not ship without it being shipped with a hazardous material requirements.

I ended up just shipping the tools and have them order through McMaster.

Now I realize that this is nothing more then a warning of the possibility of a health issues, as opposed to the CSA and UL standards, which insures safety.

Is this really necessary or is this nothing more than a step in the form of ‘government creep’ into that the government knows better because individuals do not have the capacity to think for themselves.

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#1

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/18/2018 3:46 PM

This has nothing to do with government. It's the barracuda lawyers, who will kill their own mothers for money that's doing it.

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/18/2018 6:00 PM

2 things...

1.) 99% of attorneys are politicians...

and

that’s why I said, ‘government creep’, it doesn’t all happen over night,

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#50
In reply to #6

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/20/2018 8:10 AM

And the corollary: 99% of politicians are or were attorneys .

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#9
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/18/2018 8:25 PM

And where did you get it has nothing to do with the government anyways?

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/18/2018 9:22 PM

You said it. They're all lawyers.

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#2

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/18/2018 4:02 PM

I'm seeing this California proposition 65 warning on everything lately....even if it has no offending materials, it says this product contains no Calif prop 65 warning.....and it's funny that the warnings state that the substance in question is only found harmful in California.....well I'm not in California, so I guess this doesn't apply....

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/18/2018 4:46 PM

It's the genetics of people that live in California. The DNA twists to the left...

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#14
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/19/2018 4:29 AM

Must be the Coriolis Effect...

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#54
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/20/2018 4:58 PM

That's not quite it.

California, on year-round average, gets the best weather, nation-wide...

The consequence is that their minds are slowly sucked dry from essentially year-round sunshine... The cummulative result is that they become slowly dulled to the point where people don't really know what they vote for, and politicians don't really know what they wrote into their laws...

Thus, over time, Californians pay a sort of (weather tax ?), all the while telling themselves how cool they look, and sound, while their rights, and tax-base, continue to simultaneously inflate, and erode...

No wonder they have, in effect, been duped into wanting to attract even illegal alien felons in across their borders...

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#55
In reply to #54

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/20/2018 5:53 PM

What a load of bigoted nonsense.

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#56
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/20/2018 7:11 PM

I lived in California for four years . . . . while there is a certain level of tongue-in-cheek / sarcasm . . . from what I saw in the Bay Area there may be more truth to that than many would want to admit.

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#60
In reply to #55

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/20/2018 8:55 PM

Even though it may sound tongue in cheek remark,... You may not recognize it... because it’s becoming the norm along the west coast.

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#59
In reply to #54

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/20/2018 8:53 PM

If you look at California, there’s a lot more to it... take the water distribution issues aka the water bank... it’s nothing but a corruption organization. By the larger corporate farms. To name one is wealthy Los Angeles businessman Stewart Resnick who owns Paramount Farming Co., also the Franklin Mint,

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#64
In reply to #54

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/21/2018 12:39 AM

BS! Very little of what you say is verifiable as even close to the truth.

However when you say," people don't really know what they vote for", I say California voters are as well informed as voters in any other state.

And, "politicians don't really know what they wrote into their laws," is true nationwide, especially in Congress where lobbyists and staff write (most) all the legislation. Politicians are too busy raising more money.

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#65
In reply to #64

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/21/2018 7:58 AM

And these some people vote in the same career politicians,... year after year after year... and are reaping what is sowed.

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#66
In reply to #65

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/21/2018 12:22 PM

This is NO DIFFERENT than any other state, is it? If yes, tell me how, with facts, not hearsay.

It seems to me that you are all blindly following someone's prejudice against California because of no particular reason than they have more consumer protections in place than some backward states.

Never lived there, just think you all have a pack mentality.

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#67
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/21/2018 2:02 PM

No it isn't any different than any other state... and like I said, you reap what you sow. The difference is, some march because that's what they're need to be told what to do.

Just like,... need to be told that this grease that inhibits rust on the planer bed can be baddd for you....

Never lived there, just think you all have a pack mentality.

Maybe being part of the pack mentality is .... you, its just that no one told you that yet..

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#71
In reply to #54

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/22/2018 1:16 PM

Essentially, California leads the charge to make everthing idiot-proof...

The FINAL RESULT will be that everyone will have become an idiot, because then, they won't need to become anything more than an idiot...

(...but maybe, that IS ''the Plan'')...

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#7
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/18/2018 6:01 PM

It just a matter of time, that California taxes it people and businesses to move out of state.

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#12
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/18/2018 10:30 PM

You got it! Between taxes, regulations, and the cost of living, it's difficult to live in California.

We have Prop 65 warning signs at most, if not all, entrances to our plant. Every product we produce is 100% metal/alloy, but you'd think we were producing pesticides or something like that...

If it weren't for the climate, there'd be no intelligent people left here!

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#24
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/19/2018 10:18 AM

if they do move out, i hope they don't bring their stupid ideals with them to contaminate the rest of our country. Crap up the place and move on to another.. sounds like most renters around here.

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#29
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/19/2018 10:39 AM

They always bring their ideals with them.

About 20 years ago I lived in southern New Hampshire for 11 years. I worked down in the Boston area but refused to live in Taxachusetts. The NH motto, "Live Free Or Die", was taken very seriously back them. The state had virtually NO state funded welfare.

We had a new family move into the neighborhood and attended a house warming at their house. Turns out they had moved up from Massachusetts. Almost immediately they started asking stuff like why doesn't the state provide funds to put up a fence around their yard to keep their autistic kid from wandering off. And other things based on what they would get in Mass.

I finally asked them why the moved to New Hampshire. Their response was, "Taxes are too high in Massachusetts".

Beware those moving from high tax progressive states. They ruined New Hampshire.

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#4

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/18/2018 5:54 PM

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#5
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/18/2018 5:58 PM

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#15
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/19/2018 4:40 AM

I'm surprised the No Smoking sign doesn't include urination, defecation (except on prescribed places) and sexual congress.

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#46
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/19/2018 1:13 PM

Nope, those are organic and therefore good for you.

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#47
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/19/2018 1:14 PM

Hemlock is also organic. It's not good for you.

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#48
In reply to #47

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/19/2018 2:24 PM

Well, in that case I'll go for the synthetic hemlock. Not so overpriced. Thanks for the penny pincher tips!

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#8

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/18/2018 6:49 PM

I'm thinking that most of California's problems are self-inflicted...

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#11

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/18/2018 10:26 PM

Why don't they just get to the meat of the matter and resolve:

LIFE CAUSES CANCER

Or just bypass this intermediate step and declare:

LIFE CAUSES DEATH

Then they can blissfully secede from the Union and become their own third world country which they are clearly on track to do.

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#68
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/21/2018 2:18 PM

Death can not happen,... without life.

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#69
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/21/2018 2:22 PM

To quote Dr Phil...

Ya Think?

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#70
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Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/21/2018 2:23 PM

And vice versa (at least for long).

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#13

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/19/2018 12:50 AM

Warning signs and labels are an absolute necessity. Do you really think anyone would have bought a house anywhere near Love Canal had they known otherwise ?

Not that long ago, a very nice person shipped me 2 containers of specialty cooking salts. I'm sure somebody in this crazy state might of said it was hazardous. But with me, mum's the word.

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#16

Re: Really, is this necessary.

03/19/2018 5:02 AM

Its not that individuals don't have the capacity to think for themselves, its more like that they wont think for themselves. However, yes, somethings can be taken too far.

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#17

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 7:47 AM

There is no point in blaming any government, as in a democracy, the <...individuals do not have the capacity to think for themselves...> carry out the appointment of individuals to the governing body.

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#18

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 8:59 AM

They will find out this is another case of crying "wolf". I no longer waste the time to read any Prop 65 warnings because I assume it is totally inane.

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#19

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 9:07 AM

Interesting that no one got right to the point. It's all C Y A. Closest were the references to lawyers. However, with the same warning appearing on everything, it is bound to just be ignored.

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#22
In reply to #19

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 9:59 AM

It is pure CYA b^ll$&!t.

A part of me insists I play "devil's advocate" here. Why must all warnings be applied only by governmental edicts? Warning the public about a plausible hazard should be part of due diligence and not an admission of guilt or poor engineering.

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#25
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Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 10:26 AM

Agreed that "plausible" warnings should be applied even without government edict, and, due diligence should be applied, and in many cases it may be, but somewhere along the line it probably gets pushed to the back burner so the product can be sold after all the risk analysis' are done. After all, that is what it is all about, what and how likely are the risks and what might they cost?

We do seem to have gone a little too far when a bin of peanuts or a jar of peanut butter are labelled, "may contain nuts". Then again, it may not be obvious to every person on the planet, for what ever reason.

As well as politicians trying to "please all the people all the time", they now have to "protect all the people all the time", even if that protection is only from themselves.

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#27
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Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 10:34 AM

As a person with a nut allergy the "May contain nuts" warning is one of the most frustrating warnings I encounter. It implies to me that the food processing facility is so lazy that they do not know what is in their product.

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#45
In reply to #22

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 1:08 PM

Nothing will hurt you, according to those who sell it to you.

Tobacco? Completely safe according to those who profit from it, including Congress.

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#20

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 9:29 AM

Most of California's problems are from idiots just trying to justify their existence.

"Oh yea, I saw grease on that machine and it didn't smell very good. So I put a warning on it to warn against the dangers of cancer." Even though the can that the cutting oil comes from has a warning of that nature already.

It reminds me of a story I'd recently heard about some guy going to the hardware store and finding out that 4x4's only measured 3-1/2"x3-1/2" so he's suing for false advertisement.

Common Sense is an extremely rare animal in California. Practically all the politicians don't have any. Even them old ones, that you'd expect would.

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#21
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Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 9:37 AM

I haven't measured a 4 x 4 in a long time, but,,, 2 x 4 is even a better example. I do believe they are now down to 3 5/8" x 1 5/8" or are my numbers too big??

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#23
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Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 10:12 AM

3-1/2 x 1-1/2 I think is more like it. What I've heard is that when the wood is originally cut, it's still wet and it's cut to the exact measurement initially but there is shrinkage when it dries so they run it through a planer for a more consistent measurement. Carpentry tools are designed for on the 1/2". If you find 2x4's that measure on the 5/8" they might have come from some private lumber mill. In the olden days, like 90 years ago, 2x4's actually measured 2"x4".

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#26
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Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 10:33 AM

2x4 is the rough cut. The actual size is after it's been run through the planer. This is as it always has been.

It's similar to a quarter pounder. The quarter pound is the weight of the meat before it is cooked.

You would n't want a 2x4 that is actually 2x4. The material is too rough and it doesn't match any exiting studs.

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#28
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Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 10:36 AM

It's been that way for years but it hasn't always been that way. I've salvaged wood from an old house and it's lumber measured to exact measurement.

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#31
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Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 10:47 AM

The older the building the larger the size. In my house, for instance, the 2 x 4 studs are actually 2 1/4" x 4 1/4", not to mention they are red oak.

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#38
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Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 11:40 AM

That was what I salvaged. Red Oak. Then turned around and used it to make furniture that had it's own character that the people liked because of the ant and beetle bore. There were some 4x8 beams that we had to plane down quite a bit to make a futon.

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#36
In reply to #28

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 11:39 AM

Of course there is no such thing as exact in measurements, and this is especially true in anything made of wood.

I have a piece of 2x4 removed from my house (California, built in 1962). It measures (with calipers) from 3.45 to 3.48" in width, and consistently 1.52 inches in thickness. The original measurements were slightly larger, as it was originally painted on three sides, and I scraped the paint off years ago.

I also have a section of new 2x4 left over from re-roofing my house last fall. it measures from 3.39 to 3.46" in width, and from 1.47 to 1.52" in thickness.

Thus, to the accuracy required by carpenters, they are both 11/2" by 31/2".

As others have said, I too remember much older houses where the "2x4s" were significantly larger.

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#30
In reply to #26

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 10:42 AM

I am fully aware of that, but the finished size is always becoming less.

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#51
In reply to #23

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/20/2018 9:58 AM

That’s initially true, but lumber isn’t cut to the full shape. IMO, I believe that different wood varieties may shrink more than others, and the industry made the standard to ensure it’s covered. After planing and shrinkage occurs the varieties that don’t shrink as much are cut in the raw form as to conform to the finished standardized size. In other words, its raw dimensions are cut at the mill to say, 3-7/8 x 1-3/4 to be dried, and planing to the finished 3-5/8x 1-1/2 or whatever the standard is.

I recall my brother was operating the mill, and we were cutting lumber. My brother was planing to use the lumber for his house, and he wanted the full width and thickness lumber, and he was cut so he was cutting the 2x6 as 2-1/4 x 6-1/4 and the like so that after drying and planing the finish lumber would be a full 2”x6.” Was my dad pissed; we lost about at least 70% output. Probably a lot more.

And when my brother started to build his house with that, what he failed to realize was that building hardware like stack pockets did not fit; he ended up having to plane down all the lumber so it would fit. Where a lot of potential lumber become shavings.

For my brother, here’s where the adage of ‘education doesn’t come cheap’ comes in.

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#52
In reply to #23

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/20/2018 10:08 AM

More than 90 years ago, they were even bigger as I referenced in my house which was built in 1869.

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#49
In reply to #21

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 5:15 PM

Too big--now 1-1/2" x 3-1/2". The nominal 2x4 is the rough-sawn dimension before surfacing.

[Added] I see since that this has already been mentioned. Also, 1-5/8 x 3-5/8 was common for quite a while. There also used to be S2S and S4S classifications for lumber surfaced on 2 or 4 sides.

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#57
In reply to #20

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/20/2018 7:24 PM

There never really was a 4x4 or a 2x4,, for that matter.

The terms 4x4 etc were designed by marketing people.

The same ones that brought you the Easter bunny, Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

The thing is, there really isin't a convention on how thick or thin a piece of wood should be.

Its up to tradesmen to make it work for whatever the application may be.

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#61
In reply to #57

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/20/2018 8:57 PM

That’s false, back in the day, the neighborhood sawmill had their own way.

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#63
In reply to #61

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/20/2018 9:09 PM

We didn't have a saw mill in my neighbor hood .

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#32

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 11:05 AM

The prop 65 warnings are pure government and not a tort liability issue. The only liability is that if you don't add the fluff, then you are liable for a government fine, although there are some law firms that specialize in suing anything that moves or doesn't move on the basis of not properly labeling for prop 65.

Getting to the point that since everything is dangerous, nothing is dangerous...or at least you can't tell from the label.

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#33

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 11:21 AM

The whole Prop 65 started out with the best of intentions (and the road to . . . paved with . . . .), but those who wrote the law failed to account for the Law of Unintended Consequences because they failed to see the big picture.

Or maybe it was sponsored by those who would profit the most from it . . . .

Writing good laws is incredibly difficult to do. This is a good example where writing a bad law is worse than writing none at all.

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#34
In reply to #33

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 11:26 AM

Remember that this was also a statute voted upon by the populous and not a carefully crafted law.

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#35
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Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 11:37 AM

Regarding the voters....

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#37
In reply to #34

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 11:39 AM

Not being familiar, exactly what % of the populous actually did vote on it??

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#58
In reply to #37

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/20/2018 7:34 PM

Now I don't know how it is in other states, but in California, laws can be created and put on the books without voter input.

Take the most recent one, the gas tax

A law created without voter input,,now a petition is being circulated to remove this law.

But the petition has to be approved by the very people who created the gas tax law in the first place.

And the merry go round goes round and round and ,,,,,,

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#39
In reply to #34

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 11:46 AM

...and it is virtually impossible for even a well-educated voter to understand the full consequences of any proposed (or existing) law. Since the majority of voters are probably NOT well educated on whatever topic relates to the proposed law, Then it boils down to which side can create the most effective TV propaganda machine.

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#40
In reply to #34

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 11:52 AM

Understood, which really makes us ask whether the voters should be entrusted to enact laws at all. The idea of a democratic republic where the people elect representatives who in theory should be better at crafting legislation with checks and balances afforded by the executive and judicial branches . . . .

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 12:02 PM

The biggest problem with politicians is that they think their constituents expect them to make laws when they enter office. The fact that all the useful laws have already been enacted is of no consequence.

And those of us with a modicum of common sense suffer the results.

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 12:23 PM

Like you say, maybe there should be an emphasis for legislative bodies to remove at least as many laws as there are created. Direct those staffers to scour the code to strike 'bad' laws.

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#44
In reply to #42

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 12:52 PM

You mean like Trump's order to cut two regulations for every new one implemented?

Oh, and Congress's habit of exempting new laws from the mandated sunset provisions they previously enacted!!!

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#43
In reply to #41

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/19/2018 12:42 PM

That's correct. We don't have a Justice system that exercises Justice, we have a system that exercises legality. There are so many stupid laws on the books that make you wonder WTF. Like being against the law to eat fried chicken in Fort Gaines, GA with utensils. It's also illegal to drink beer standing up in Texas. It's against the law to wear high heels over 2" in Carmel, CA and it's against the law to wear cowboy boots, unless you own at least two cows in Blaine, CA. Then there's the issue of something being perfectly legal in one State and being a felony in another. Most laws anymore are just redundancies and just so law makers can justify their existence.

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#62
In reply to #40

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/20/2018 9:01 PM

When I went to school, they weren't handing out diplomas for degrees in the mayoral sciences, congress cum lade or phd ( presidential hot dog ).

So, where did they get all of this experience to govern over us ?

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#53

Re: Really, Is This Necessary?

03/20/2018 4:38 PM

Although originally from New York, I spent 30 years living in California. I left there to take up residence in Mississippi 26 years ago and raise a family. We are all doing well and so glad to be out of that state. Believe it or not, when I first landed in San Francisco, it was a pretty nice place. It has gone downhill since. One thing I didn't do was to try and change things; instead I adapted to the customs and ways of my new environment.

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