IQ Tests

As Einstein said when he turned down the presidency of Israel, " I know a little about nature and hardly anything about men."

Engineers are very smart about engineering. Running a government requires a whole different mindset. We've had two engineer presidents, Herbert Hoover and Jimmie Carter. I love Carter as a man, not so much as a president.

And there's more than one kind of intelligence. Emotional intelligence, for instance - not always high in engineers and scientists.

As for IQ tests - they are very good at determining your aptitude at taking IQ tests. Since you asked, mine is quite high, 99.5^th percentile (which is the preferred way of stating the results, since different tests use different numerical scales).

I don't think intelligence increases with age, however you can learn more stuff, and gain a little wisdom.

What wise thing have I learned in my 50 years? "Try to do one really stupid thing every day."

This thread originated on Friday, when Paul Cooijmans, known for his development of high level intelligence tests, sends out his personal weekly newsletter.

This could be an interesting thread because of its uniqueness. I estimate my intelligence to be at the 85 to 90 percentile level based on the entirety of my academic work. Good point about considering percentile level rather than an IQ number.

Indeed, intelligence alone is only one facet of mental effectiveness. A not too exceptional intellect like me can come up with some very good ideas, it just may be harder to get others to realize it or to personally reap maximum rewards from those insights.

ME TOO!

tmf

Tongue-planted-firmly-in-cheek... If asked, I'm pretty sure we are all in the 99.5 percentile. This would be like asking everyone here about the size of their penis!

"Oh, uh, why yes! Mine is in the 99.5 percentile! Of course it is!"

Do what I do - quote it in metric. By the time they find out, it's too late.

That would work only in Amrrica where we still do not understand or refuse to understand the metric system, anywhere else in the World, everybody knows the Metric system

That would explain why I've never had any luck with Irish lasses. That and free eye care.

Except everyone does not have one. Although, I'm sure if I did, mine would be 100%.

And if the reader didn't have one?

I wish to expand a little on your statement "and there is more than one kind of intelligence"

Classic example" An individual grows up in the big city, down town, with a huge library near by, lives in a town house or high rise condo. with well to do parents, etc. who preach that learning will be his ultimate salvation therefore study hard and take advantage of the library. Gets A's & B's on report card.

Now Compare: Individual # 2 lives in the coastal area of Louisiana where his family is mostly only partly educated when compared to the above family. The closest library is many miles away and has little opportunity to take advantage of it's available material. He speaks Cajun dialect and other variations of the Kings English.

He can repair his outboard motor with nothing but used spare parts never intended for use on that model, build crayfish traps. knows just where to set them, builds houses in the swamp on pilings builds his own boat from Cyprus planks and spit, and spells words like they sound such as checkloslavakeah.

One can survive great life threatening events like floods, lack of store bought food, and VOODOO DOLLS.

The I.Q. test is not for #2 and survival in Louisiana's coastal plains and swamps is not for #1, but the test is created by folks from "ACKADEMIA". Where are they going wrong?

The I. Q. is a poor example of the ability to learn as it fails to compare ones ability to survive vs. ones ability to read and comprehend.

Toomuchfun

It seems that what you're trying so strenuously to say is, that the problem comes with and from using the word, intelligence, at all. It's just too vague and shifty a term. And, with passing years the word itself becomes increasingly meaningless . . . fast approaching the point, even, of "intelligence of stupidity."

Right on the money Toomuchfun,

This world is full of educated idiots and most of them reside in academia. These, unfortunately, are mostly the same ones that teach our children.

Another problem faced by those with high IQ is the tendancy for the mind to wander, due to the increased options for any particular question to ponder. At least I seem to have that problem. With an IQ of 150+ I often wish it was lower so I could stay on task better.

It was stated earlier that IQ is a constant. Perhaps that is true but I have taken 3 different proctored IQ tests, the first administered by the Air Force in 1969 on which I scored 120+. The second administered by a government shrink in Tucson in 1980 who was trying to proove that I was unfit to raise my children. It came in at 140+. The last was part of a job screening in 2000 that came in at 150+.

Maybe a new type of test should be developed to test the ability to learn.

Actually IQ is not constant, it varies just during the day. I took two IQ tests in college and had it at 153 the first time, and 146 the second time. Additionally, it is not very precise above 120, and tends to vary more during various times amongst people the higher above 120 they get. By the way, about 5 years after college, a few years after I quit working as a chemists and started working as a civil engineer my IQ was tested at 139. So I am not all that confident that engineering experience actually improves your intelligence. What i find is a common misconception is that there is something termed common sense that equates some how to intelligence. However, the term itself is poorly defined and highly ambiguous, usually relates to knowledge gained through experiences, and the content expected to fall within common sense varies substantially from person to person based on their own experience. I think the main problem with intelligent educated people leading the masses is: they tend to think in terms of the correct solution to a problem not the solution that will be perceived as having the greatest benefit to their constituents and supporters, they are bright enough to question their advisors and learn not to explicitly trust advisor, they have been trained to solve problems themselves unlike people in business and such who have been trained to seek others to solve problems for them, and they tend to be trained to communicate in a doirect manner explicit meanings rahter than ambiguously speaking to peoples greed, emotions and fears.

It gets a lot worse than that when you must sit for a Florida State General Contractors Licensing Exam. These things span 2, 8 hr days with the first day being 4 hrs. of legal and 4 hrs. bus. mangmt, heavy on taxes to the Govt. and the penalties of course. The 2nd day is all about estimating, plans reading, etc. This is the one that entraps the folks who know what they are doing. They know from experience how not to under estimate the work as their mistakes come out of their own pocket. However the questions on the exam are designed to cause the examination taker to have to find answers to un-important questions that relate to nothing. It is open book but is timed and designed to fail those who know what they are doing. Traditionally only about 5% pass in any one year, with the individual having three chances to get it correct in one year, with your passing test scores saved until after the last chance. Then you begin all over again. Oh, and each time you take the test you must pay the tariff all over again. I think the price is up to about $500.00 per test now. About 1500 people sit for each exam. Making money for the state is what it is all about. I.Q. has nothing to do with these examinations. They are made up from questions selected by Academia, not the construction industry. Example; what color paint is on the west wall of restroom A. Believe it or not, It is the folks just out of some University with no real experience in the industry, who have the best chance of succeeding as they are familiar with the idiotic manner in which the tests are written. What in hell does I.Q. have to do with anything important, like making a living with out going bankrupt. Florida is the most difficult state in which to get a General Contractors License. You would be astonished to find out just how many folks with high I.Q.'s fail these examinations. "IQ-IQ-IQ IQ I quit.

Toomuchfun

Yeah, as a City engineer, I don't think i would use contractors bid estimates as any measure of intelligence. I just received 10 bids for a simple overlay that differed by more than 300%, all from licensed contractors. More often than not contractors bid estimates are more of a guess based on some experience, so as an engineer, we tend to communicate with the most experienced contractors in our area to develop the engineers estimate for Public Works projects. Truthfully, most contractors don't bother to estimate to the detail we provide in the engineer's estimate, which is just a cost summary. Plan reading, however, is something they should be quite familiar with. Though, I must admit that more than one time i have been called out to a job because they contractor obtained a set of plans reduced down to a 11x17 and clearly marked with a scale so they could use them in the field, and they could not figure out how to account for the reduction factor in their measurements. I had one contractor off by 5 feet on striping, and his ruler only showed a difference of about 0.8 feet between the ruler scale he chose and the scale on the plans.

Your points are well taken. > Unfortunately the low bidder gets the job unless it can be justified to disqualify his bid. I have found it necessary to intentionally under bid a contract just to get it, but knowing that there was conflicting language in the contract documents, vs the engineers specifications vs the plans/drawings. It is often resolving these conflicts is the only area in which the Prime Contractor and find a profit. However; I have taken many contracts in this manner and did not get greedy with the cost of resolving these issues and was granted additional work as permitted under the option to extend the contract by the owners, that resulted based on the unit price index. Just knowing how to price out the work and comprehend what could be or is likely to be a contract add on. It's good business for the contractor and for the owner as well. It reduces the need to advertise for competing bids, saving time and money.

Does that indicate that I have a high I.Q., or just have ingrained savy about human nature. Who makes up the rules anyway?
Toomuchfun

IQ really would not apply to project underbidding, as this is more of a measure of sociopathy, aggressiveness, charisma, a willingness to fight with clients, and an inverse measure of ethics. Actually, more often than not, underbidding as a practice is just based on a knowledge about how willing the client is to likely fight change orders and how susceptible they are to your charm, since it is typically for the engineer to include language regarding addressing identified issues to the engineer prior to bidding else you can be held to the strictest interpretation of the contract documents. What this really shows is a willingness to take the risk that the client will not be willing to withhold a substantial portion of your retention or file suit. This is a common practice with public works projects, since the PW directors are concerned more about public opinion and their image than inappropriate change order expenditures for work defined in the contracts. On the other hand some wealthier high-end developers, especially those educated as lawyers, will hold your feet to the fire and go to every measure to hold you to the contract as they interpret it. However, low-bid jobs are usually typical common construction projects, or are treated as such by a client who doesn't know better, many expensive specialized or high-risk projects go with an RFQ process, and accept the bid from the selected most qualified contractor(s). This is the method I prefer, as it allows me to select out those contractors with a history of underbidding and seeking to create change orders during the course of the project. I have had many arguments with low bidder contractors over how clearly marked a water line was, whether the use of old worn striping was a more acceptable practice for a measurement reference versus newly constructed curb (when it was spelled out on the plans that existing striping may not be accurate), additional costs to implement the requirements of a HASP that was explicitly identified as a project requirement and appended to the bid documents, etc.. In most cases when the client was a very large corporation, such that the project costs were deemed negligible versus getting the job done, or it was a municipality, they would just capitulate rather than fight with the contractor. As explained by one principal design engineer I worked with, no matter how explicitly and clearly you define a project, a contractor will always claim it wasn't clear and seek additional reimbursements if it is in anyway atypical of their standard routine constuction practices (which frequently do not strictly conform to or exceed industry standards of practice). However, sometimes while it seems clear to all the engineers and public works staff, a contractor can explain how it was not clear to him in a manner that makes it seem fair to the engineers and public works staff to allow the change order, and if he has been better on this project at a fair final cost relative to the work of other contractors who have performed other services for the Client, you want to retain a working relationship even if it means capitulating a little bit on some small change orders (and sometimes it is just graft, and the contractor has some local influential connections).

Again, I understand your point of view! However I have been involved with the bidding of a contract to make a number of under ground improvements at an airport. The owners "the County" had ordered substantial test borings for a previous contract and found that the under ground obstructions were going to make the work too expensive and canceled the idea altogether. Some years later they advertised for bids of other under ground work, a gravity flow sewer, average depth below average surface +/- 12 ft. New test borings were provided by the same Engineering firm who had designed the abandoned work.

This time the borings were widely scattered, seemingly avoiding the areas known to present under ground obstructions. The contract documents permitted the bidders to have additional test borings done at the bidders expense. I was made aware of this issue after the opportunity to bid hit my desk. I suggested that the Contractor that I was working for submit a no bid. He called his Attorney and discussed the matter, and decided to submit a bid based on the information provided in the bid documents. The work was completed, at a little more than a million dollars over the Engineers estimate. The Owners and the Engineers errors and omissions insurance paid the overage claim, rather than have it made public that they had with held information that would substantially impact the contract.

You were correct about the Lawyer part. I don't know what I scored on the I.Q. test that I took when I went into the army, but I was told that it was the fifth highest of the group of more than a thousand inductees I entered training with. I. Q. values, in reality are not any different from any other examination of the mind. They are only as good as were the creators of said examination, and are therefore subject to subjective comprehensive value. What ever that means!

TMF

Well if an engineer knowingly intentionally withheld relevant information, he should be sued by the contractors who knowingly inflated their bids to account for the condition they may also have been aware of, or to cover supposedly unknown conditons. The State board should have been notified and the engineer had his license suspended or revoked by the State Board (so should the county engineer if he directed the action). That kind of situation can be construed as creating unfair bidding. Additionally, had the contractor been aware of the site condition issues before hand, he should have been held strictly to his contract. This appears to be a good example of where the public lost out, as it was their funds that paid for the project, because the engineer and county personnel tried to decieve the contractor and then their insurance tried to stop their misdeeds from becoming public knowledge, so they essentially bought off a corrupt contractor rather than risk the publicity. In essence the engineer, county staff, and contractor colluded to misappropriate public funds for the purpose of financial gain on the part of the contractor and avoiding liabilities against their insurance or licenses. Now a situation where it might have been more reasonable to have such knowledge and not disclose it on the contractors part would be a case where you had known the conditions would be very amenable to construction because of some previous work, but the bid documents had put investigation on the contractor and others were bidding higher to compensate for the potential risk because they were not aware of any previous investigations. However, if the information was readily available, the engineer or county staff would have been at least negligent to have not disclosed it or made it available to all the bidders.

I no longer work for that Contractor, as I am disabled/retired, and had my differences with him and the way he conducted business.

The Contractor was ready to dump the entire loss on sub contractors that I as a project manager relied on and the County has determined that sense the Prime Contractor was un-willing to absorb the losses that said prime is no longer welcome to bid that counties work. As for the public, they got the work done for cost plus 10% so they didn't lose anything. The entire issue stinks, and I determined that I would never bid any work that was the responsibility of that Engineering firm. I just happened to know the crew that did the test boring, and that was how I came to be made aware that " there were issues under ground, to be careful". However no contractor is going to invest thousands of his own money just to determine whether or not the under ground is adequately represented in the bid documents. I never actually saw the previous under ground reports, I was just provided a little heads up. That is the reason I chose to no bid the work. Word of mouth information doesn't hold much water in court.

TMF

IQ tests only tell how good you are at doing IQ tests....

Del

What's the next number in this series:

1,11,21,1211,?

I like to use this to torture prospective employees while I look over their resumes. It tells me if they are likely to be regular listeners of Car Talk.

Answer is 111221

one one, one two, two ones

What does car talk have to do with it?

Car Talk is where I first heard it.

"Who is the arbiter of what is right and wrong in such a question"

Exactly, I have found that most testers are looking for a specific answer. 25% of the time, the question is worded incorrectly to get that specific answer.

another example is

Question:

Find A

While we know they are looking for the answer of 5

(3² + 4² = 5²)

The correct answer is

The question should have been be worded:

What is the the value of A? ,or

Calculate A.

Ah, now we are getting to the difference between engineers and politicians. Many, if not most, politicians are lawyers, or people who think like lawyers.

Question:

Find A

While we know they are looking for the answer of 5

(3² + 4² = 5²)

The correct answer is

The question should have been be worded:

What is the the value of A? ,or

Calculate A.

Are you sure? If the question is in the math section of a test, the first answer is the one required, because of the context. If the questions are not separated by subject, then either one is correct, but one could assume and argue for the mathematical answer because, in common practice, the word "find" is used synonymously for "calculate" or "determine". All the test taker would have to do to prove his case is provide examples from math tests and textbooks where "find" is used this way.

An engineer might do a good job of managing a government agency that deals with technology, such as the National Institute of Standards and Technology, or the National Weather Service. These are usually appointed positions. I have my doubts that many engineers would be suitable for elected positions.

BTW, the US has had two other Presidents with engineering and science backgrounds or interests. George Washington was a surveyor, Thomas Jefferson was an inventor and architect, both kept weather diaries.

Even with that, I would be reluctant to favor a politician just because he is an engineer, scientist, or has a high IQ.

Find a what?

HYPOTENUSE OF A RIGHT TRIANGLE. I DO NOT SEE THE NEED FOR NUMBERS TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION AS POSED.

tmf

Thinking about such questions, I am reminded of one that I wish someone from our community would answer, though I do know the answer, The question is "Which is the most important split pin in an Aircraft" Anybody would like to answer?

vshwn7@aol.com

Is it the one that holds the steering wheel to the column?

If you're including helicopters, it's the one that holds the rotor nut on some models. That's known as the Jesus nut, cause when it comes loose, everybody on board yells, "Jesus!".

"Which is the most important split pin in an Aircraft" Anybody would like to answer?

In an apparatus that flies through the air with people in it?

I would have to say:

1) ALL of them!

OR

2) The one that Just failed.

"Which is the most important split pin in an Aircraft"

It is the one that breaks. When it breaks, any one that is not broken, is not important.

Ah the logic and wisdom of my hero and the person I wanted most to be my mentor, Mr. Forrest Gump. Run Forrest Run.

Ah, the logic of one of my heroes and the Man I most wanted as a Mentor, Forrest Gump. Run Forrest, Run.

Oh - so close. We're looking for permutations, not combinations

The guy before you got it right.

Oh - so close. We're looking for permutations, not combinations.

AAArrggghh NO! Exactly my POINT...not close ...spot on..

We're not looking for permutations or combinations...we're lookin' for a smack in the mouth with stupid questions that have a myriad of perfectly 'correct' answers.

I fact I'll wager a thousand Quatlous that such a short series could be proven to have infinite possible solutions.

I don't actually want to be 'correct' I'd just like someone to acknowledge the ludicrousnes of this sort of question, and what a waste of time they are.

If someone tried to give me one of those stupid aptitude or psychometric tests these days I'd tell 'em to F*ck in no uncertain terms.

Oh my I'm a grumpy Cat.

Del

CONSIDER YOUR WISH AS GRANTED!!!!!

toomuchfun

it is perfectly logical..it just shows what a crock of shite such questions are...

Who is the arbiter of what is right and wrong in such a question?

Hi Del

Gave you a GA here because I agree with you in the 100^th "percentile"!

Who can "Know" the mind of another?

IQ, Mensa, or Any other types of "Intelligence" tests are subjective at best. The attempts over the years to "tag" or categorize someone's intelligence with a numeric value or place them in a percentile of the populace seems to stem from some inane (insane?) need to have everything in neat little rows; a place for everything and everything in it's place. (currently being diagnosed as OCD - LOL) But I guess this does create jobs for a tiny percentile (arbiters?).

Why aren't "common sense" tests given with the same fervor (if At All)? The most "intelligent" people I've Ever known or worked with I would give a Very High common sense score and most without any letters following their names.

Would an engineer make a good head of state?

I'm sure a high percentage would do well. Much of the world's problems stem from the fact that "politicians" are running things. At least most problems would get looked at and analyzed from as many angles as possible before a decision was made and would Drastically reduce the number of "knee-jerk" solutions(term used Very loosely here) to which we are currently subjected.

I've taken a number of intelligence "tests" through the years and scored quite well on all of them. I guess I'm fairly good at test-taking. Does that mean I'm intelligent?

The Greatest compliment ever paid to me was the day a lead ME told me that I have a "curious common-sensical(his word) way of looking at problems and solutions".

^{putting soapbox away now......looking for my bag and pipe......}

Common sense tests are given to all of us every day. See the more unfavorable results here.. Darwin Awards (or favorable depending on your take of the populous)

Plus a test would be hard since there is not actually any "Common Sense", it is highly experiential, based on the perspctive of theperson using the term at that time, and varies temporally, situationally and culturally. There was a time when it was common sense that man could not fly, that 1+1 must equal 2 (though some educated people realize also that 1+1 can equal 10), the earth was flat, the earth was created in 7 days, the earth was the center of the universe, bad vapors cause disease, african americans were inherently not as capable of swimming, when confronted by a dangerous wild animal-runaway, gravity is the same all over the planet, there is no gravity in space, if you are thirsty drink more water, if it hurt when you do something don't do it, powdered rhinoceros horn is an aphrodisiac,etc... As i am sure you recognize, many of these are wrong, while others are wrong in many situations and can get you killed.

"crock of shite"

This phrase alone deserves a good answer.

The White Album

The question I posted about "the most important split pin in an aircraft" was also a torture test for prospective candidates for an airforce job. Think about you may have the answer

vshwn7@aol.com

Several universities have run this test...

Take a sample year of graduates with high IQ scores and compare them against another group of graduates with lower IQ scores. The results are the same - just as many doctors, scientists, plumbers, police officers, nurses, ...

No difference between either group.

Correct!

. . . in that one falls short by overlooking the more essential, antecedent IQ (Intuitive Question): Tells whom?

Sure we all have high IQ.

Should we direct our policies in the governments rather then politicians? Well that is a certainly a loaded question.

The job of a politician is to lead (manipulate) the people. Since politicians represent the pinnacle in the skill of manipulating people, they belong where they are. They are the type of people that must be kept in the spot light, (so we can keep track of them).

I think we should continue to work in the background. Even if they are replaced, our work must continue.

I have done a few IQ tests over my lifetime. In grade 7, I was told to join Mensa, I did the Mensa test and I found it too easy. so much for Mensa. Lately, I did an IQ test that tested lateral thinking. I think the maximum score was 180. when I got the maximum score, They basically told me that the test was insufficient to test me. So much for the test.

Does IQ change much with age? That totally depends on the individual, his mental and physical health, and the environment. I have found that some people will stagnate at a certain age (arrested development). This can be attributed to drugs, alcohol, stress, or simply living in a non stimulating environment. Sure with age, foreign chemicals may build up in the body and restrict the speed of the synapses, however, a healthy mind can always create new pathways. On the other extreme, where everything is in favour of growth of intelligence, it is quite possible to increase your IQ even if you are 80 years old. It is even possible to reprogram how you think. The simplest way to stimulate new ways of thinking is to travel to new countries, and experience new cultures. There is no mind more limited then a person that has never left his home town.

Bravo, bravo!

I was as thick as two short planks before I moved to Spain! There's hope for me yet! As to keep up the statistical front of the thread, I'm a young forty year old! ^{Maybe I need to visit a few more countries! Right then, going to go and roll another!}

What did the politician get on his IQ test..........................?

......................drool!

Usually the bottom of the barrel.

They compensate for lack of intelligence by learning to manipulate people.

The trouble with IQ tests is their total lack of accuracy. When I take standardized tests, I usually score in the low 60s, but then in the real world, I....oh! Well they're not completely accurate, so there.

Recently took an IQ test that suggested an IQ of 161. I have noticed that over the years my tested IQ has increased from 123 (in Primary School) to 140 earliy in my career to the current level. I think the tests may be too specific to an individuals ability to test taking in given areas of knowledge. Personally, if I were lost in a jungle I would rather have survival skills than a high IQ.

". . . 161. I have noticed that over the years my tested IQ has increased from 123 (in Primary School) to 140 earliy in my career to the current level."

Time was . . . when they would have said that you are a very, very slow learner!

OK. Let see if I remember correctly... The original reason for developing the IQ test was not to discover how smart you were, but whether you were smart enough not to water down the intelligence of the American population!!! This all came out of the US eugenics programs of the twenties and thirties during a particular wave of immigration. That, I think, was the real issue around the early 1900's. They wanted to make sure that the current wave on immigrants were not going to make us a nation of idiots!

On the other hand, there is a new sort of IQ test that they like to give children these days that determine whether we think linearly or non-lineally...

This has to do with the "Bunny-slippers" effect. Some person out there managed to put the completely unrelated concepts of "bunnies" and "slippers" together and make himself/herself a fortune! This type of thinking has recently become highly valued. Hence the reason why riddles like the following have become highly important. Be careful, you may find this on an employment application...

A man comes home and climbs the stairs to find the light out. Upon relighting the light, the sight he sees makes him commit suicided.

This is non-linear thinking... Do you have it???

Vermin,

I need to ask you a question about your question. Did you mean to spell suicided that way, that is, instead of suicide?

Here's one that was given to me one time. Can you stand in a corner and not think about a white rabbit after having been told to do so? I think both questions have equal weight in my mind.

No, jsut a spelling error.

That, I think, was the real [the policy?] issue around the early 1900's. They wanted to make sure that the current wave on immigrants were not going to make us a nation of idiots!

Remember, though, that the frontier had closed and the Indian (reds and whites) attrition wars were over. The westward expansion—and, with it, the theretofore "relief valve" for growing dependency populations in the east, including congenital "mental-dependency" populations—was perceived to be coming to an end. So it should come as little surprise (or should I say, it usually comes as a surprise; or meets with uneasy incredulity) that eugenics programs found their largest implementation, and political acceptance, at land's end in "civilizing" California.

Naturally, the unvarnished character of the westward movement, and the full motivation (in addition to self service) behind Horace Greeley's admonishment, would continue to receive heroic glossing over in text books (and on monuments), even up to the present.

So much for Emma's entreaty^* . . . huddled masses would be fine, but not in our back yard.

Oh boy, I guess I'm really lacking in this department. Many an ex-wife has reminded me that my IQ is somewhat less than my shoe size...

Last IQ test I took was in the 8th grade and scored 125. Took the ACT and scored 32, the GRE and scored 1410 which supposedly put me in the 98%. Does that make me smart? NO! What makes me reasonably bright is that I am fully aware of how much I don't know and how much there is still left to learn. The only thing that might qualify me to hold public office is that I don't give or accept BS and I don't accept ideas or positions that don't pass the "so what" test and that can't be validated by verifiable data/info and confirmed by independent evaluation. Given that, I would much rather have engineers in office than lawyers or "popular" individuals. The best leaders were practical problem solvers who served reluctantly out of a sense of duty and left office as quickly as their conscience would allow.

I have the highest, because you can't state an IQ +/- 10 years, Well the great Carnack could.

I think mine is 111. The American online testers add 50 q's to your score when they see you are from Africa.

I did the test about 5 years ago. I was working on the computer and had a sort of black-out, afterwards my leg(s) were numb, a funny feel on my cheek and I could not speak. I was suspecting a stroke but miraculously the test popped up an I was very relieved not to be a vegetable. The legs were better in two days although I was unsteady and the speech took a few days.

These online tests is however not politically correct. Imagine having to give the meaning of a US English word you have never even heard before.

My late wife used to accuse me of thinking that I know everything. I told her "I'm so smart, even my blood type is A+" (It is.)

When my ex wife decided to split the sheets from me, one of her complaints was that I seemed to always be right, never made mistakes. I simply stated that I attempted to consider what would be best for my family, before my own interests.

About 4 years later, after speaking with the kids my ex. wanted to speak to me. We had not been on speaking terms for a long time.

I agreed, and was very surprised when she brought up that subject and said that she found out the hard way that I was right in my convictions. I thanked her for the comment and said that I am sorry for being that correct, but we can never regain that which was lost, and that she should understand that between us it was ended , and she should look to the future as she could not relive the past.

TMF

2 Much,

If you got an ex to admit you were right, you must be a heckuva convincing debater.

My exs (I'm a serial polygamist, though I had to give that up when I taught my current wife to shoot - thankfully she was a "keeper" anyway) all think I'm a nice guy but absolutely wrong about everything.

I have taught all of my lovers, (all of them have been female) to handle fire arms, to be able to load and shoot them accurately. The last thing I want is some crazy ex lover who is angry enough to kill me to hit the wrong parts. Besides the ex wife was looking for another easy ride and I seemed to be predictable. Fooled her though.

TMF

Ha! I just took an IQ test and it tells me my IQ is 144 in Base 7. Unfortunately I only understand binary and hex, but I think that must be an impressive number.

I am very impressed with your score. I decided against taking the test myself. I am afraid that the results might be so high as to be unbelievable, and then I'd catch another "ration of crap" from some of our responders, "and they would demand the formulas that used to out wit the creators of the test." Or even worse, "I would find that I'm too dumb to comprehend what the test is all about."

Either way, the end result didn't look promising.

TMF

I don't personally care much for the IQ tests I am familiar with but I have one I administer on a regular basis to people I meet. Humour (in deference to our Kings English folks) is the best indicator of inteligence I know. When you tell someone a joke and they look at you like "Huh?" then I have some doubts about their real inteligence. I've seen a number of engineers, college professors, etc. that fell into this category.

Jusdt another perspective to consider. Alternately, if you see this happen quite frequently, maybe you might consider that it is not the person hearing the joking, but rather the person telling the joke. Maybe the joke makes no sense or there is something substantially flawed in the language used,presentation, underlying concept, etc., but it is so subtle that most people who do not understand it just laugh anyways (or they understand the joke but themselves do not understand the basis) and those who understand the underlying concept just assume there is something wrong with the person stating the joke. Imagine the joke you hear 3 years olds telling they seem to think are hilarious, but most people look and think thy just haven't developed fully yet (except a few who laugh to entertain the child even though they don't understand or think the joke is funny. Of course however, I have noticed that other 3 years will frequently think such humor is hilarious. There is always this possibility too. As a good example, when i was about 8 or so, there was this joke about aborted fetuses in a bucket in a brothel, and an clients misconception that they were tomatoes. At 8 this seemed hilarious, but as i learn more with age it became obvious that the joke really makes no sense.

Yes, absolutely you make some good points here. My remark about humor was made partly in jest.

What I was trying to say is that intelligence is not just about knowing facts and figures but in how a person uses that inteligence to interact with those around him or her.

Yes! With these facts, we shall drive them like rats across the tundra!!!

I've taken an IQ test & scored well but I remember thinking at the time that, in the particular test I took, a number of the questions were essentially pattern recognition which I would expect any engineer to do well in.

If you ever read about IQ tests there is much debate about which test gives the most accurate result & what they are really testing.

IMHO the level of anyones intelligence or their accumulated knowledge is fairly meaningless, what really counts is how that knowledge is applied to generally improve life & that is more to do with the character of the individual. Intelligence in isolation is of no use to anyone.

I don't put much merit in IQ tests or scores. When I was a kid I would score very high very easily. I didn't consider myself different from most people. Some people like being intelligent and some just want to be themselves.

There is a lot of information out there on how to teach yourself to score high on these tests.

Trying to pigeon hole intelligence doesn't make sense. It's too variable. I've met a lot of intelligent people who were not that smart and vice versa. And I've had my days where I'm neither intelligent nor smart.

Hey, I was not trying to look down on anybody, it was just a fun thing, seeing that the thread had turned to be a little fun, I posted my question in that spirit. And would you believe that the one person the question was one of my friends from college (by the way this was way back in 1939 during the last World War) who answered it, "the one that is missing" and he retired as the Chief Air Marshall in the Indian Air Force. His judgement in answering the question proved that he WAS really intelligent, and that meant that each and every split pin in an aircraft was IMPORTANT, otherwise it would not be there at all

Hope you take it in the spirit that it was posted

vshwn7@aol.com

Maybe I can give an interesting perspective on this thread. My mother has multiple masters in learning disabilities and teaching, she is very well versed in how we learn, what effects learning……. IQ test are very accurate at what they test, your ability to pickup and retain concepts. The higher your IQ the easier it is to learn new things. Your IQ will never change so the +/- 10 years is unnecessary. Many people who consider themselves smart and have average IQ consider the test to be flawed. To put it in the simplest terms IQ measures intelligence, how smart you are is determined by what you actually know. I have a 143 which puts me in some high percentile yet if you look at my academic transcripts you will find a college drop out who graduated right in the middle of my H.S. class. I got a perfect math SAT and average language score. Most people who score high do not do well in school. In fact it is easier to learn in school if you are not of high intelligence. School systems, including higher learning institutions, are set up to teach people of average intelligence there is a refined system in place to enable people of average intelligence to become very smart through proven techniques. I did see mentioned the intelligence that is not tested for creative, interactive…. It is true that there are 5 types of genius only two of which is actually tested for. The ability to be visually, audibly, or personally intelligent is not tested for. The wild card is motivation anyone who is motivated can become very smart, but will never become more intelligent. Someone who is very intelligent yet has no motivation will never become smart, yet always be intelligent. Don't deny the tests capacity to measure intelligence because of your own score, and don't believe any online tests, real IQ tests must be given by a proctor.

My experience supports your description of the school system. I was poked and prodded and tested at a young age because my parents were told I was mentally challenged. They didn't tell me until years later why I was tested. And they didin't tell me until years after that about the results. They didin't want me to get a bad attitude.

So, as it turns out, the teacher was the problem. Go figure.

To this day my mother will only tell me that my score "exceeded 175". And I don't really care. I've seen so many people trying so hard to act intelligent or smart that I don't see the purpose in it.

And now that I think of it, what I remember about the tests was barely close to those image and math pattern IQ tests.

And my parents efforts failed... I have a really really bad attitude.

OK. So if. like, you're one of those people that has multiple personalities, does each personality have a different IQ score or is the IQ score divided up among the number of personalities?

Yes

Each personality uses a different part of the brain which could have a different level of development.

They deliberately hide their true intelligence and put on a facade either deliberately or subconsciously, as in a certain generation that thinks being stupid is 'cool'.

That's really interesting & fits with my experience. I muddled through school always being around the average at most things. It wasn't until I left school & started studying engineering at college that I developed an interest in learning but my IQ score is quite high.

...are for children.

The whole notion is biased. Imagine giving the exam to an Aboriginal peoples.

I just find it all rather ego driven.....dribble. I have tested non-proctored to find I am well into upper percentiles. I would never speak of this in most circles. Assumptions and judgements are sure to follow.

Want a good IQ test for an aboriginal person? Give him a lawnmower and a grassy meadow. If he doesn't start the %&**@ thing, he's smarter than all the rest of us people put together. If he walks into the meadow, snags a cricket, and uses that as bait to go fishing, add an order of magnitude.

Aboriginals are quite thrifty, "don't you know". They would simply harvest the seed pods growing aloft the grassy meadow, and either eat them as crunchies or maybe make a gruel or bread from them or take their boomerangs and cold conk a rabbit , wallaby or maybe a roo "don't you see." But no way are they going to waste moola on petrol, or effort to do work that can be done by the eaters of grassy meadows. Their Low Q seems in some ways higher than our high Q.

Toomuchfun

Toomuchfun

...smaller percentiles or larger percentiles?

Doesn't anyone here have the slightest clue about the meaning and significance of IQ testing? Judging by this blog, it would be the ability to argue in circles. August bloggers? Harrumph!

Thanks for your hugely edifying post.
The depth of knowledge and experience you display is breathtaking...

Del

I meant, of course, present company excepted. Glad to see you picked up on that.

The Wherefore