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Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 2:09 PM

Hello All,

I'm seeking an honest opinion. What are the prospects for a 48 year old man earning an engineering degree? At present I have absolutely zero prerequisite credits for any 4-year college program but I'm willing to start from scratch if necessary.

I have 25 years experience in steel construction, welding, project management and basic business skills. I have about 8 years experience in AutoCAD, SolidWorks, Excel and Word, which I consider basic level.

Your insight and honesty would be respected and appreciated.

Thank you!

cpeterson, USA

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#1

Re: Can a 48-year old novice earn a PE?

03/02/2009 2:40 PM

Of course you can get degreed, I will leave it to others actually in the field to comment on whether a PE would be available.

It would seem to me if you are willing to do the normal scut work I am sure falls on junior personnel I cannot see a problem.

You will be a non-traditional candidate, but many are today.

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#2

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 2:53 PM

How good are you with math and science?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 3:12 PM

I graduated with basic high school level math skills. I passed a few evening algebra classes at community college after that with straight A's but that was 20 years ago.

Not very much of a foundation is it?

I certainly do appreciate your response.

cpeterson

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#4

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 3:20 PM

Absolutely you can. I'm not too far behind you and at the risk of sounding a braggart, I'd give myself an 80 - 85% chance of surviving the resulting trauma to my cranial tissues.

When I was a youngin' back in college there were a surprising # of old fogeys chrono-enriched students who were making it just fine. What's more, they tended to impress me by their utter outward calm under what to me was intense pressure. I guess by our age you learn what to sweat and what not to.

And don't forget the best part: all the pretty young distractions on campus.

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#10
In reply to #4

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 3:41 PM

Well I don't feel like an old fogey just yet, so I guess there's hope. I really appreciate the moral support.

cpeterson

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#5

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 3:27 PM

cpeterson, USA

I started later in life,

Stop making excuses, if thats what you really want. . . .do it. You will go through some reorientation from real world to class room, but after a semester it will come.

(you may be able to test out of some classes, thats up to you)

I went to college when I was 25, I was scared, questioned myself, but when its all said and done, I am glad I can say I did it and not. . . . "what if". . . . that would have bothered me.

good luck my friend, the choice is yours.

phoenix911

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#6

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 3:31 PM

I have known friends who later in life got four year degrees. Accredited Engineering degrees (that qualify you to sit for the PE) are harder than most degrees.

In many cases it has to do with your personal situation. Are you able to commit several years of intensive study to get the degree or spread it out to six years?

One friend while working full time got a bachelors in math with an emphasis in statistics. Not an easy curriculum. He has an exceptional memory and is now a certified insurance actuary (big bucks).

Another friend who had a technical associates wanted to be a CPA. He was single and had no children. He saved his money, lived like a pauper, and got a school loan. He quit his job and went back to school full time. He got his accounting degree and later passed the CPA exam.

There are many engineers who get their masters while working full time. It appears to take real commitment.

My brother who is 52 has taught vocational school for years. He is working full time and taking night classes to get a bachelors. He already has an associates. The hours are long but doable.

I throw these examples out because it is possible but appears to be somewhat dependant on circumstances and commitment.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 3:34 PM

I saw Bugs Bunny conducting a symphony once. . . . . he . . . . . was . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .FANTASTIC.

That fly was pretty good too.

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#14
In reply to #8

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 5:04 PM

I still snicker when I think about those old cartoons.

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#23
In reply to #14

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 8:09 PM

What do you mean "Cartoon"? You mean that didn't really happen? My childhood is lost!

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#7

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 3:33 PM

I know a woman who, at age 71, started law school. She went on to not only complete her schooling, but graduated with high honors.

So yes I believe you can do it.

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#9

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 3:37 PM

How is your math? What are your distractions?

If you can handle the math, You can do this. If you are undistracted, you will be able to do this.

I got my MBA at 56.

Frankly, with your skill set, I could see getting a associate in the relevant field to prove it to yourself. Then resume the balance of the engineering curriculum.

Math and distractions. These are the only real obstacles if you have the desire.

milo

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#11

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 4:06 PM

Wow, I didn't expect so much positive response! I'm running out of excuses a LOT faster than I thought I would.

Thank everyone so much.

cpeterson

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#38
In reply to #11

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 12:28 AM

Sure, you can do it. This is what I am doing right now. I'm 51, and I'm finishing up a BSME in about a year. There are some things that should be considered.

1. Is you family totally committed to you doing this? That's a biggie. They need to realize, as you will, that to do this takes a tremendous amount of time. Not just overall, as in scheduling several years to complete a degree, but many hours during the week to complete the needed work in class, out of class, and at home. Many outside activities get sacrificed to complete your assignments; just don't sacrifice all of them.

2. Are you financially secure to sacrifice several years of full time employment to attend school full time? It's nearly impossible to work a lot and keep up with full time school work. Also, keep in mind that nearly all financial aid, in the form of scholarships specifically is slanted towards the typical college student (18-23 yrs old). Not all of it, but much of it is. Other aid is available, but scholarships are typically not.

3. Computer and math skills. You'll probably be looking at a number of calculus courses, differential equations, statistics, numerical analysis, and so forth. Also, computer programs for engineering applications (ex., MATLAB).

4. Do you get along well with young people? Typically, at least at the "traditional" colleges and universities, your classmates will be a lot younger. You'll find that their interests and time committments may be different from yours; this can be a factor when you get assigned group projects.

It might be a prudent idea to look at some preparatory courses at a community or technical college. Doing this can allow you to get your feet wet, and earn some credits as well. Also, you may be able to earn the first year or two of a BS degree and transfer it to a four year engineering school. Just keep in mind that, even if a four year school accepts your credits from another institution, those may not be exactly preparatory for the following coursework at an engineering school.

Keep these things in mind. It's a lot of work, but I think it's well worth it. I have several friends doing this, and have done it in the past. A friend who was an assembly line worker, waitress and part time secretary went back in her thirties, and she's a professor of mathematics, another was a electrician, and he's finishing up an EE degree, and I know of several more. Make sure everyone's on board, prepare well, and give it a shot!

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#12

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 4:09 PM

Not only can you do it, you may find that deciding to do it was one of the most rewarding decisions you've ever made.

Think about it, if you start this summer and work hard, you could have your degree by the time you're 52. Realistically, that means you could work at least 15 years as an Engineer before retiring. And why not more? People work into their 70s now if they like their job. Don't think of how old you are, think of how young you are.

I wish you the best of luck.

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#13

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 4:14 PM

Hi cpeterson,

If you have the desire, absolutely! I didn't start working on my degree until 12 years after I had graduated from high school. I had to start with some basic-level math and science classes; working part-time and school part-time at a junior college took about 4 years to get about halfway to a Bachelor degree. I spent the next 3 years at university to complete. About 10 years after that, a good friend really pushed me to get my PE license. This took about 1.5 years.

Now, I love what I do - no regrets. If I had to do it over starting now (I'm 51) I would.

Now, if you are looking to find employment with a new company, you may find some difficulty. On the other hand, we're rapidly losing our Engineering workforce and a smart company will not only look at the degree, but all of the experience that you had before.

If you decide to go through with this, our best to you!

Mike

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#15

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 5:33 PM

Ah, well - if I'd known we were going for inspirational stories

My step-mother worked compulsively for like 20 years, got tired of 90 hour weeks, an accountant grown into CFO and turnaround specialist.

So she kicked back to 50 and started studying micro-biology; which turned out to be her secret love. She refused to take a spot in school as she acknowledges she won't have time to put it to use, but continues to study for the fun.

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#16

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 6:12 PM

my mother started her massage therapy education at 49, granted she wasn't going for a PH.D. or anything but still lots of anatomy and physiology etc... I would say that on a level of complexity the two are similar it really just depends on your interests and abilities, since you've been working in steel construction I would say you're probably better situated to pursue an engineering degree then some young pup straight out of high school with no real world experience.

Age should be no barrier to any educational goals you desire to pursue, in fact it has been suggested that continuing your education may increase your life span (if only by virtue of keeping you interested in being here)

I strongly encourage you to pursue this or any other learning adventure because of your age, not in spite of it.

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#17

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 6:42 PM

You will have to take algebra, geometry, and trig clases for no credit. Then intro to physics and chemistry for no credit. You'll need about 2 years of these no credit classes before you can apply to a school of engineering. Once you get an accedited degree, a BS in mechanical engineering technology is not accedited, then you can sit for the EIT. Then 4 years later the PE. When you turn 60 you will be a PE.

I'd recommend a enginering tech degree.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 6:53 PM

Hi vicini,

It only took me 1.5 years to get my PE (ChE discipline) in NC. For the EIT part, I was working full-time. You are right however, that the entry level courses do not count for the degree, but they are prerequisites for ones that are.

I think he could do in in 8 years or less, depending on if he was able to go full-time or not.

The glass is half full!

Mike

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 7:04 PM

He can do it in four years. It takes 4 years to get a BS in Engineering. The prerequisite classes can be taken as electives and he can double up on the intermediate courses in his junior and senior years to get back the year he loses taking these prerequisites.

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#21
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Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 7:20 PM

Roger Pink,

I understand what you are saying, but what if the prerequisite classes he must take are more than the number of electives he is allowed? Additionally, (and I am thinking of my own experience here) he may have to ease into this endevour, taking a bit more time. Wouldn't it be more prudent to give a more liberal estimate than a "best case" scenario. In my experience, things almost always take longer than the original estimate. That is why we, as engineers, learn to factor a number of common-sense things into deadlines.

A better way of replying would be: "He could do this in as little as four years."

Too many variables!

Mike

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 8:03 PM

Actually if he took summer classes, he could do it as quickly as 3 years. People get BS all the time in 3 years. I think your estimate was completely unrealistic. Over 10 years? C'mon.

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#24
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Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 8:46 PM

whatever

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#26
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Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 9:48 PM

MIKERHO: But if there can be no agreement, then we are at an impasse.

ROGER PINK: I'm afraid so. I can't compete with you physically, and you're no match for my brains.

MIKERHO: You're that smart?

ROGER PINK: Let me put it this way: have you ever heard or Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?

MIKERHO: Yes.

ROGER PINK: Morons!

MIKERHO: Really! In that case, I challenge you to a battle of wits.

ROGER PINK: For the princess? To the death? I accept!

MIKERHO: Good, then pour the wine. [He watches as ROGER PINK pours the wine.] Inhale this, but do not touch.

ROGER PINK: [Taking the vial from MIKERHO.] I smell nothing.

MIKERHO: What you do not smell is Iocaine powder. It is odorless, tasteless, and dissolves instantly in liquid and is among the more deadly poisons known to man.

ROGER PINK: [Shrugs with laughter.] Hmmmmmn.

MIKERHO: [Turning his back, and adding the poison to one of the goblets.] All right, where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink - and find out who is right, and who is dead.

ROGER PINK: But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine it from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemies? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you ... But you must have known I was not a great fool; you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

MIKERHO: You've made your decision then?

ROGER PINK: [Happily] Not remotely! Because Iocaine comes from Australia. As everyone knows, Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me. So, I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.

MIKERHO: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

ROGER PINK: Wait 'til I get going!! ... Where was I?

MIKERHO: Australia.

ROGER PINK: Yes! Australia! And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

MIKERHO: You're just stalling now.

ROGER PINK: You'd like to think that, wouldn't you! You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong ... so you could have put the poison in your own goblet trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied ... and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me!

MIKERHO: You're trying to trick me into giving away something. It won't work.

ROGER PINK: It has worked! You've given everything away! I know where the poison is!

MIKERHO: Then make your choice.

ROGER PINK: I will, and I choose ... [pointing behind MIKERHO] What in the world can that be?

MIKERHO: [Turning around while ROGER PINK switches goblets.] What?! Where?! I don't see anything.

ROGER PINK: Oh, well, I ... I could have sworn I saw something. No matter.

ROGER PINK laughs.

MIKERHO: What's so funny?

ROGER PINK: I ... I'll tell you in a minute. First, let's drink, me from my glass and you from yours. They both drink.

MIKERHO: You guessed wrong.

ROGER PINK: You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! YOU FOOL! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is: Never get involved in a land war in Asia!, and only slightly less well known is this: Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!

ROGER PINK: continues to laugh hysterically. Suddenly, he stops and falls right over.

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#31
In reply to #26

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 11:04 PM

I love that movie

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#34
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Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 11:16 PM

I hoped thought you'd get a kick out of that!

Mike

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#37
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Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 12:04 AM

[Vizzini has just cut the rope The Dread Pirate Roberts is climbing up]

Vizzini: HE DIDN'T FALL? INCONCEIVABLE.

Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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#39
In reply to #26

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 1:26 AM

Mikerho

Australia was mentioned a few times, but why not Nietzsche. I really enjoyed this Mate. You're sure he's only fallen over and not dead? Would be a pity to loose him. BTW he drinks beer, try that next time and you would have less to type.

Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE? Yes, but what for? For sure not to find a job in these times, or better some years (still disputed?) down the line.

Good to have you here Mr. Peterson and you will find what you are after, I'm sure.

All the best, Ky.

PS: He'll get used to the off topics sooner or later.

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#27
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Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 10:00 PM

I get BS all the time. USUALLY FROM TOP MANAGEMENT.

milo

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#49
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Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 9:22 AM

My college required 135 hours to graduate and include a mandatory summer school class, 3 years was not possible even with AP class credits. OH, the first math credit was calculus, anything lower was not for credit. 6 hours free electives, 6 hours nontechnical electives, 12 hour technical electives. So you can't even bring in a lot of stuff from a liberal arts school.

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#48
In reply to #20

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 9:19 AM

then add how many years to be a PE.

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#47
In reply to #18

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 9:18 AM

FROM the national council the four-step process required to obtain engineering licensure.

Step 1:

Graduation

The first step is graduating from an ABET-accredited engineering program at a college or university.

Step 2:

FE Exam

The first exam in the licensure process is the Fundamentals of Engineering (FE). This exam is offered in April and October every year. Most students take the exam right before graduation or soon after while the technical information they've studied is still fresh in their minds.

Step 3:

Work Experience

Many jurisdictions have specific requirements about the type of experience you need to gain. Most require that you gain experience under the supervision of someone who is already licensed, and that your experience involve increasing levels of responsibility. Once you begin work, contact your licensing board to find out what experience is needed and talk with professional engineers in your company to find out how you can gain this experience.

Step 4:

PE Exam

Once you have gained the appropriate experience, you can take the second exam in the licensure process, the Principles and Practice of Engineering (PE). This exam is given in a variety of engineering disciplines. Most disciplines are offered in both April and October, but some are offered only in October.


After completing all the steps in the engineering licensure process—education, experience, and examinations—you are eligible for licensure by your licensing board.

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#63
In reply to #47

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 6:02 PM

Hi vicini,

I was able to skip step three with the signature of another PE averring that I had significant work experience. My boss was a PE and signed for me (but later fired me)!

Mike

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#80
In reply to #18

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/07/2009 11:59 AM

"Do, or do not. There is no 'try'." Yoda

Haha! I have that same poster in my cubicle at work!

It only takes 18 months for qualify for the PE exam in NC? It takes 4 years beyond the FE in Ok.

R

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#84
In reply to #80

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/09/2009 9:45 PM

many states have different "idiosyncrasies" based on local conditions and politics.

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#19
In reply to #17

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 7:02 PM

That's absolutely untrue. You take these courses for credit. Any BS degree has unassigned credits that you decide how to fill. In other words, if a BS degree requires 120 credits, only 80 or 90 of them are predetermined, the rest are up to you to decide how to spend them. So the math courses you take to catch up you can choose to use to fill these electives.

So again, the post I'm responding to is wrong. Don't believe it. The timeline is completely wrong too.

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#72
In reply to #19

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/05/2009 11:18 AM

While my university was not necessarily a "traditional" engineering school, it is very highly regarded. My BSME degree required 160 credits...of which only 8 were free electives, 8 were technical electives, and 4 were from writing a thesis. While this particular program would not allow for too many prerequisite classes (only 2) to be taken as "electives", I'm sure many would. My only point is that not ALL programs adhere to the time line or standards you point out.

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#73
In reply to #72

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/05/2009 3:47 PM

I never said all do. It's not like he's restricted to your school.

Here's a note from MIT's Engineering page:

"Our departmental unit requirements are among the lowest in the School of Engineering, providing flexibility for students who wish to have a minor as well as a major, study abroad and pursue interests outside engineering."

Yes it's true there are schools that require you to kill yourself to get an Engineering Degree, but they probably aren't better than MIT, right? So let's just agree that he can choose a school with more relaxed requirements and still get a quality education. We all don't have to do it the hard way.

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#74
In reply to #73

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/05/2009 4:31 PM

I will agree that you never said ALL, but I qualified my first response by saying that I knew my situation and my school weren't very representative. I was simply offering it as an example, especially for those not aware.

I find your MIT example to be pretty poor however. Sure, if he wants a degree in civil and environmental engineering then the "requirements are among the lowest" as compared to other engineering programs at MIT.

Now, factor in the ACTUAL requirements of the program (or especially the requirements of their ME program) and how difficult it is to become a student - especially for a "non-traditional" student who admittingly doesn't have a strong math background, and my "example" is probably closer to the truth than yours.

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#75
In reply to #74

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/05/2009 7:32 PM

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're trying to say. Rather than tell me how my extimate is wrong and rather than providing how long it took you, can you provide an estimate you would feel is realistic (so I at least have something to address here).

What is your estimate for how long it will take him to get a degree in engineering (you specify the degree)?

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#25

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 9:17 PM

Age is just a number. Don't let it stop you. All the best. You the man.

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#28

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 10:00 PM

I agree with the majority of the rest that you can do it if you want to. I would only add that you take whatever brush up math you need: algebra, trig, and calculus at a community college or night school, get that all under your belt - and also see if you are up for it - then press on to a real engineering school.

That may also help your engineering degree GPA.

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#29

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 10:52 PM

If you have Experience and your Grey cells are working in order then it should be no problem.

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#30

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 10:59 PM

First of all, one of my father's best friends decided to start on a degree in electrical

engineering when he was 55 years old. He had been a brickmason all of his work career, so yes, you can do it. (He did, and went on to finish with high marks.) Know that it will test your commitment to the point

there will be times you will wonder if you have lost your mind. Understand also that

you will reach a point close to the end where the solution of one problem will require

the equivalent of a days' work- ONE PROBLEM. The minority opinion, with which I

agree, is that the more life and work experience you bring into the picture, the more

"hooks" you start out with on which to hang (with which to correlate and assimilate)

new knowledge and skill. If you have a family, you owe it to them to clearly

communicate and help them understand the commitment you are making (because you are doing so for them also) and the sacrifice required on their part. It will take

a CHUNK of time, energy, and coin as well.

All the best to you.

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 11:06 PM

Hi guest,

Very well put.

GA from me.

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#33

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 11:09 PM

From my experience, depending on your choice of school, you will likely be very disappointed with how out of touch the faculty is with what really happens in the real world. I have hired a number of graduate civil engineers whose formal education was a waste of time and money, not on account of their abilities, but on account of the total lack of industry responsiveness on the part of the faculty. On the other hand, it provided them with an expensive piece of paper that would open doors and give them the opportunity to truly learn and gain valuable real-world education under the tutelage of more experienced professionals.

Other than those caveats, I have no doubt that you can do it. After all, you have survived a much tougher challenge through your work experience.

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#35

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 11:21 PM

The short answer is YES you can.

After a 27 year career in the USAF, I started teaching Engineering at a major university in Texas, the first class I walked into had more than half its students older than I was ... they all finished their degrees.

I agree with other comments ... take the first two years at a community college ... it is less expensive ... covers the same material ... and you have an Associate degree exit ramp if you choose to use it.

HAVE FUN ... Never give up!

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#79
In reply to #35

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/07/2009 11:55 AM

I agree with you on starting at a community college.

I am 37 and have been back in school now for 3 years working on a BS in EE. I started at our local junior college enrolled in a program designed to transfer to a specific 4 year school. Even tho I had previous Calculus credit, I felt I better start again w/ College Algebra (really helping me now in Linear Algebra )

I started the transition into the 4 year school last fall and had quite a shock! My 2 classes at TCC were much more demanding than the 2 classes at OSU!

I will admit to being extremely anxious about the transfer, will I be able to do the 3000 level classes after going to what I considered an extension of high school? The short answer is YES! As it turned out, the upper level courses seem EASIER! (I doubt they are, but I am now prepared for them and they are much more interesting than the Gen-Ed crap anyway)

I will be able to finish my degree in 5.5 years start to finish, I have already landed an "extended" internship with an engineering firm, and will sit for my FE this fall. And the EE program at OSU is much harder than say, Civil (each school is different in this regard) If I can do it (A.D.D. and all) then you can too!

The maturity and drive that comes with age (anyone one under 30 is still a child IMHO) will play to your strengths. The time and money invested are great sacrifices, but are more than worth it!

(And yes, the "eye candy" is very nice, heheh! Just don't expect too many of these "distractions" in your upper courses. I think there are about 5 total in my degree program.)

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#36

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/02/2009 11:50 PM

I did something similar at age 30.

First, doing engineering means lots and lots of high level maths and physics, this is what usually stops mature age people from passing. If you're serious go back to the secondary school level and try working through past exam papers, you'll be amazed how much you've forgotten.

Second, the course will take all of your waking hours for a long time, if you haven't got lots of money, a supportive partner and an absolute determination you wont finish.

Third, many employers may not give you a chance even if you do pass. I've got a friend who finished his Eng degree at 45, but in 6 years, still hasn't been employed as an engineer. HR have a saying "If you haven't done it by 35, you'll never do it".

Four, It's a hard course and it really does become harder to learn new things as you get older. I know I struggle to learn (complicated) new programming concepts now that I'm 50.

I hope this doesn't come across as negative, if I was in your position I'd try to leverage my existing knowledge and experience, perhaps a more advanced Auto cad course.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

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#40

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 2:04 AM

I have to agree with ffej. I myself did just what you are thinking about, went back to school after almost 20 years in the commercial construction business. I am now 47 with an electrical engineering degree from an accredited university, Texas A&M. I have had about a dozen second (in person) interviews only to hear comments that either the job is a young man's job or they are looking for someone younger. Yes I know that is against the law to base hiring on age but it happens.

I have no regrets about getting my degree, but now I do not believe I will ever get a job in the engineering field.

So, you should have no problem getting the degree, but you should beware of age discrimination when it comes to getting a job.

ChazL

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#56
In reply to #40

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 10:51 AM

It is a shame but I believe age discrimination is a reality in probably all fields.

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#58
In reply to #40

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 11:46 AM

It won't be in a couple of years as the demographics come to pass!

Better to have the degree by then.

milo

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#62
In reply to #58

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 2:16 PM

Milo,

What do you mean?

ChazL

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#41

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 2:13 AM

Hi cpeterson!

I'm just finishing my degree and we have a colleague that started at 39 yrs old. There were good parts and bad parts in that.

The good was his knowledge from having circuits and electronics as a hobby for years. He really nailed some answers every now and then!

The bad part (for him) was the new technology. Programming (a vital part in today's electronics) just wouldn't get stuck on him.

In my opinion, you need to be mentally prepared to go back to doing homework and attending classes, some held by people younger than you. Also, a few people will invariably think that is either weird or crazy, which does not necessarily reflect the reality, and you need to know how to deal with that.

Bottom line, good luck!... if you do what you love and love what you do only good things come from that!

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#42

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 3:55 AM

Being older you have several HUGE advantages over the young guns.
1. Common sense.
2. Patience.
3. Experience.
4. You spend less time thinking about girls .

Go for it...it's not a competition, you have nothing to prove to anyone but yourself. Worst case scenario is you find it too tough, but at least you will have tried.

My only tip would be to try to engage with the young guns, it could be mutually benefical and it will certainly help you appreciate points 1-4.
Good luck.

Del

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#59
In reply to #42

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 11:49 AM

4.You spend less time thinking about girls.

(I guess, if you're a cat, that might be so. I had plenty of (and enjoyed) the comely distractions Helped a number of them With understanding and sense making in study groups. Your Family may need to adjust to your new "cohort."

milo

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#61
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Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 11:58 AM

perhaps I should have said 'marginally less time...'

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#64
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Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 7:23 PM

"4. You spend less time thinking about girls ".

And more about women? or other women?

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#43

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 7:25 AM

Absolutely . See Ronald Gross's book Independent Scholar and See the Book

"Proving you're Qualified by Hayes can't remember the First name

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#44

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 8:24 AM

Starting at a community college is not a bad idea, especially if you get an associate degree on the way as one poster recommended.

If you are taking prerequisites at a community college, and you want to use these later at a school of engineering, make sure they will transfer. Engineers Math, Chemistry, and Physics are 200 level courses. I have heard the schools use the jargon: Engineers take math for Mathematicians, Chemistry for Chemists etc. I do not want to scare you because with diligence these prerequisites are not that difficult.

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#45

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 8:30 AM

A couple of things I didn't see in the many good responses here are the possibilities of 1) credit for life/work experience 2) On-line/distance learning. Neither will take you the full way, but you may get a leg up.

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#46

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 9:02 AM

Mr. Peterson,

Speaking as one who waited until my 30's to pursue an Engineering degree, I would agree with the encouragement that many of these folks have given you. But on the other side of the coin, you should know the costs before you plunge in.

Financial Demands- Can you afford to quit work for a few years to go to school full time? If not, are you patient enough and determined enough to go to school part time for 10 or 12 years? This was the route I took and at times it seemed I would never finish.

Family Support- Is your family behind you 100%? You will be occupied with your studies and will often be unavailable for family time (especially if you go to school part time while working full time). When I was enrolled in night classes I only saw my kids on the weekend. Missing family time can be a more difficult sacrifice than you expect. It can have a permanent effect on relationships.

Patience and determination - The first courses- the foundational courses in math, science, english, etc.- will require the most patience and determination. And could be the most difficult to get through.

However- you will find, as I did, that years of experience in industry will give you a distinct advantage once you get into the engineering courses. A kid straight out of high school has no experience to bring to the material in the books. But with your work experience you will be saying to yourself, "I know about this! I have used or seen these things before!" Being able to relate to the things you are studying makes the coursework much easier and more interesting.

So I say, if you have counted the costs and still want it- go for it. Just one piece of advice. Don't keep looking at how far you still have to go before you are finished. That is discouraging. Think about the courses you are taking now- the chapter you are studying now- and immerse yourself in it. Just keep going and before you know it, you will have reached your goal.

Bill Morrow

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#50

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 9:24 AM

I have known a lot of people that were older and got their degree in engineering, most recently a technician at one of the plants I worked at who took night classes at a local university to get his mech. engineer degree. It has opened a lot of doors for him, he was probably early 30s when he got it.

The big leap in engineering as others have said, is the math. I had 3 semesters of calculus followed by differential equations and they all successively built off of one another. I prepped for the math in high school but it was still pretty brutal.

Even worse, once you are out of the basic calculus level (integrals and derivatives) they put you in calculus-based physics. Then you hit the other calculus levels (2D and 3D integrals, integration by parts, etc.) and sure enough, they ask you to use those in calculus based electrical physics. That gets you through the general classes and into the specialized classes.

For me (being a chem-e), I went on to use the math skills in chem-e thermodynamics, controls theory, fluids, reaction kinetics, etc. so you will not notice those math skills decay for a while.

The programming is fairly straight-forward, albeit a huge time consumer and a major source of frustration. I had to do Fortran and I would routinely shake the monitor as the DOS execution ran in an endless DO loop.

Finally, you can probably sit for the EIT when you are about to graduate and then at least in TX, you can sit for the PE 4 years after that.

I hope you aren't to intimidated by this list and some of the other posts, the best attribute you can take into anything is the confidence that you can get it done. Good luck in your endeavor!

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#51
In reply to #50

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 9:27 AM

your math adds up to what I said earlier.

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#52
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Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 9:30 AM

Aye, assuming that you can get through the program in 4 years, you can be a PE in Texas 8 years from now.

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#53
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Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 9:40 AM

and assuming he has the correct math background to take calculus on the first day at school.

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#54
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Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 9:48 AM

Good point on that as well, I think my school had a remedial intro to calculus course that would try and ramp you up to speed in a semester and then you could step into the real stuff the next semester. It definitely won't be easy but if it is something that you think you can pursue, I would say go for it. You will know by the 2nd year if it is something you want to finish.

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#55

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 10:06 AM

Yes, you certainly can!

I graduated from night school with a BSEE at 39, while working full-time as an electrician and going to school full-time in the evening. Since the evening college was not ABET certified, I had to wait 8 years for the PE, which I recently passed at age 50.

One of the best ways to really learn something is to teach it. To prepare for my return to school, I volunteered as a math and science tutor at the local high school. I got a copy of each of the textbooks and kept ahead of the student's classwork. By the end of the second semester, I was ready for college.

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#57

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 11:41 AM

Hm-m-m-m? I read most of the answers here, then went back and reread your original post. What was missing for me, was that nowhere did you say "I love engineering." Should I deduce that you are making a career change out of necessity or because you fear the grim reaper in your industry?

Many here have encouraged you with very inspiring stories of those who have done what you are contemplating doing. So the doable part has been answered pretty thoroughly. And the caveats that go with it, too.

As others here have suggested, don't rush into a decision one way or another. And IF you are having to make a career change (or wanting to because you no longer like your current profession), giving consideration as to what you "love" to do is not being idealistic -- especially at your age. And yes, age discrimination is real and is more prevalent than you would imagine. Some companies are beginning to realize the "experience" factor and value age in an employee in it's proper context.

You may never have the chance again to try to work at something (or something close) to what you "love" to do. What are your hobbies? This is a first indication of what you "love" to do. Is there any way to marry your experience with what you love to do and maybe skip what may be unnecesary time and hard work of a degree -- especially if you really don't love engineering. Any good employment counselor would advise you to highlight the skill set you've acquired as generic skills rather than specific skills.

I understand that bills have to be paid and "doing what you love" doesn't always pay the bills. This is where your refelection and research meets the road. There is a book, by the way, entitled, "Do What You Love, the Money Will Follow". You might find it helpful in making what will be a momentous decision. The older we get the less room we have to make mistakes on such weighty matters as how we earn our livliehood.

I DEFINITELY wish you all the best. I feel confident that if you will invest the time, research, and introspection, you will come up with the best answer you can. That's all any of us can do. :)

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#81
In reply to #57

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/07/2009 9:35 PM

Dear Guest, and ALL who have replied,

I'm in awe of the amount of honesty, sincerity and time that has been dedicated to my humble little post. I'm not one to "bug" people with a problem I feel I can solve on my own, but I was really at a loss for an answer here.

My real objectives with this endeavor would be to: A) increase my earning potential (I earn about $70k now) B) broaden my horizons and C) challenge myself. I can see by most of the posts that "challenge" is probably an understatement!

The only reservations I have with my age is that I don't want to run out of track before the mission is accomplished...and paid for.

Thanks again for all the optimism and encouragement...perhaps there's hope for an intelligent and ambitious society after all. :)

cpeterson

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#60

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 11:58 AM

You know, the funny thing is, your experiences you listed are probably going to be the skills you use every day as an engineer if you stay in the same basic field. I think about all the things I learned on my way to the BSEE and then MSEE and how little of it actually gets applied in my job.

I suppose I use the knowledge of the concepts, but the amount of hard-core engineering math just is a very small fraction of my efforts for the company.

If you are looking to get into a different field, then the degree is necessary to get your foot in the door and I would recommend it. Also some companies tie salary bands to education, so it could be a good investment for you if it jumps you up a band or two.

My oldest brother never got his degree, but he studied the processes and learned on his own and he is the chief engineer for major paper mill. He has also worked concrete kilns and other industrial jobs. A degree would only be a feather in his cap as it would be very unlikely to add anything to his practical skill set that he doesn't already know.

Just some food for thought.

Good luck in your quest !!

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#65

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/03/2009 10:20 PM

I went back to engineering school after a bit of a hiatus from education (not quite as long as yours- I was thirty when I decided to return to school). I found studying was much easier for me than I had remembered, I found myself more motivated than I had been when I was younger, and I noticed that other older students generally found the going much easier than the younger students (who were distracted by all the many social opportunities, alternative entertainment opportunities, and a general lack of focus). By far the most important math skill is calculus- when you can calculate the slope of a curve or the area under a curve, you are there. Algebra is the second most important math skill. Accounting is the third, if you consider accounting legitimate math.

You will find all of your previous experiences of great value in your studies, because you have real world examples of what can sometimes be described by an academic in rather esoteric terms.

Look for a smaller university, where the main engineering classes are taught by professors rather than grad assistants. A university known as a leading research institute generally puts education in second place to the revenue-generating processes of publishing and grant applications- professors are too busy to give you individual attention. The best class size for any subject is less than 20 students- larger classes dilute the attention your instructor can offer you.

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#66

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/04/2009 8:38 AM

First, find out the requirements of the state you want to get the PE in. A few states do allow an exchange of verified "professional" experience for the education requirement. If your state allows that, then you may sit for the 8 hour Engineering Fundamentals and the 8 hour Practice of Engineering exams. However, be advised that both exams can be brutal to the unprepared and will require a plan for study and preparation before taking the exams.

If you state has favorable requirements and there are professional engineers willing to vouch for your professional experience, you may only need 1 or 2 years of exam preparation and refresher engineering course work to get the PE Registration.

If your state does not allow the experience for education exchange, and your experience is not verifiable, you are looking at a minimum of 4 years of college at an accredited school and 4 years of "professional" experience.

Can you do it? With enough time and money and brains and luck, yes. Once upon a time, the United States put a man on the moon so it is possible. You have to look in the mirror, know your limitations, and decide to go for it.

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#70
In reply to #66

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/04/2009 2:09 PM

no states waive a BS in Engineeering, Texas was the last on in 1986.

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#83
In reply to #70

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/09/2009 9:41 PM

The information on the NY state site seems to indicate that 12 years of applicable work experience can substitute for 4 years ABET education and 4 years of work experience.

http://www.op.nysed.gov/pelic.htm

See the chart at the bottom of the page. I have to admit this took be by surprise a couple of months ago, and I wanted to verify before responding to your post.

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#67

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/04/2009 9:33 AM

I had a lab partner in a 400 level Instrumentation class who was in his 50's and taking college classes with NAFTA money. He had no engineering background, but his patience, discipline, and thoroughness gained through life experience proved to be very useful assets in the classroom. Through these virtues he set the curve in most of his classes and maintained a nearly perfect GPA.

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#68

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/04/2009 9:40 AM

I have thought of doing this myself many times. I am 47 myself, work as a project engineer now but I could make a little better money if I had a degree. The problem I have is that I own and operate a metal fabrication shop on the the side and there are just not enough hours in the day. It is also hard to go to school and make no money when I could be at the shop bringing in a profit. I think with your experience that you would do allot better than you average college student because you already understand so much of the practical side of things. One thing I would suggest that you do is to really look at reason you want the degree. At our ages will it profit you to get one or would it be better trying to concentrate on the retirement years and putting up funding for that? Either way you go I would like to wish you the best of luck and hope you will keep us updated on your progress.

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#69

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/04/2009 11:08 AM

I have a friend that went to fire academy at the age of 50. He made the younger "kids" work just to keep up with him. Another friend just gave up on auto mechanics and went to night school for fire fighting, followed by night school for a paramedic.

What made them succeed? They knew what they wanted. They had been on the other end of the system, and wanted better, They had the years of life experience to guide them through the turmoils of the school. Both said the younger students learned to appreciate their life experiences, and what they brought to the classes. Good luck. You can do it if you want it.

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#71

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/05/2009 3:29 AM

Yes it is possible,it is not easy, but it is very possible.

I started mine with 51 years in 2005. As many have mentioned already don't dwell

too much on the issue of age and you will be fine.Three major factors determine the level of your success (in my opinion): the funds at your disposal,

the hours you put into revising,and

your willingness to learn from youthful colleagues

( ie the twenty somethings)

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#76

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/06/2009 5:39 PM

Hi cpeterson - Definitely go for it! I'm 42 and taking the NYS F.E. ("Part 1") exam next month - have had my BSME since '92. Getting my engineering degree was just about the best thing I ever did. Like I told Roger here at the Troy office, Grandma Moses is one of my heroes. America needs more engineers to jump-start our economy - it's your patriotic duty!! Best of luck. - Larry

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#77
In reply to #76

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/06/2009 6:07 PM

Larry,

Good luck on your F.E. exam.

ChazL

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#78
In reply to #77

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/07/2009 9:27 AM

Many thanks, ChazL. - Larry

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#82

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/08/2009 7:22 PM

Go For it!!!

I'm 42yo and am working towards a diploma or degree!

The first term or (Semester) will mess with your head.

If you get past that you will find your past will help with your future.

Good luck....Have Fun and as much as possible...Enjoy yourself because that's who you are doing the course for!!

Regards,
Sapper

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#85

Re: Can a 48-year Old Novice Earn a PE?

03/18/2009 10:55 AM

Why are you people talking as if 48 is old. If I decided at my present age of 70 to confront any educational endeavor age wouldn't enter into the question. Even if you don't make it, give it hell trying.

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