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Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/20/2009 5:40 PM

Out of curiosity, I wanted to know where the average CR4 member is from. It would have been a bit much to analyze every individual, so I took data from the list of member countries. I've taken just a few liberties with how I crunched the numbers ; Location has been taken as the capital for each country. Longitude and Latitude have been rounded up. Since the earth is somewhat inconveniently flattened, I've treated it as a sphere.

First off, you can't simply average the longitudes – for instance, people in Siberia and Canada would end up averaged as living on about 0 degree longitude. Hence I've extrapolated the locations into Cartesian form. The origin is the centre of the Earth, X is Eastward, Y is Northward, and Z is towards zero latitude and zero longitude.

To reflect the number within each country, I've weighted the co-ordinates. In effect working out the 'centre of gravity' (not that there's much gravity in this subject yet….).

My end results (columns I,J,K) would seem to place the average person in Mali.

If there are any glaring errors in country locations or members/numbers, I'll adjust it. For now, can anyone see a better way of finding the average location ?

Before you interpret this as confirmation that I've completely taken leave of my senses, I'll tease you a little. Since the largest groupings are America and India, I may develop this to find out where the 2 highest concentrations of members are. Think of it like drawing a contour map of member density. Ultimately, it's not really about where CR4 members are. More to do with finding clusters on a sphere. I may elaborate on that later. For now, I'd just like to see what folk think of how the data has been analyzed. Is it fair/representative as an 'average'.

Not sure if that table is clear enough, but the final weighted XYZ values are ; 0.20947947,0.306286, 0.274203. End result ; Latitude 20.63123, Longitude -0.-3381.That's somewhere in Mali.

(note - the final co-ordinates are within the Earth, so some Pythagorean juggling is needed to extrapolate onto the Earths 'spherical' surface as latitude/longitude)

I shall run and hide whilst the onslaught begins................

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#59
In reply to #57
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 7:42 AM

Let's meet this afternoon in the bar near the CR4 center of gravity and discuss this over a pint.

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#60
In reply to #59

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 7:46 AM

I might have to invert the the Southern Hemisphere to get the beer at a reasonable temperature

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#62
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 7:55 AM

The only problem will be: you will not get beer served near you're center, another good reason to tweak the data seriously.

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#66
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 8:10 AM

If I extend a line thru the c.o.g. I might........

I mentioned using direction cosines in a Cartesian reference system. Think more along the lines (so to speak) of the angle between two points on a sphere......I won't be inverting the Southern Hemisphere, the thought of a bigger EU is downright scary.

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#114
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 4:49 AM

So long as the CD-ROM with all the data on it doesn't get left behind in the pub car park....

The tabloids would have a field day!

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#118
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 6:47 AM

just checking wheter there is a free parking lot.

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#126
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 10:23 AM

That group of sheep are gathered around a sensitive public-sector database CD, innit?

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#127
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 10:29 AM

No it's one of the "maintainers" just arriving.

We collect the dough, produce methane from it, which is fed into an SOFC to produce the electricity we need to keep the server running.

We tried it with hamsters but the neighbors car found a hole in the wall.

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#136
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 5:18 PM

should be the neighbors cat

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#151
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 11:54 PM

I prefer the previous visual.

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#121
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 7:43 AM

"CA which is a few hours drive from DC"

Lived in CA, now live 10 miles from DC. Its a good 60 hour drive straight through, non-stop. I no longer DRIVE to visit family.

Point well taken about Capitals, and distance, at least for us. I suspect India might be another good example, as well as Thailand. And if we have any from Mainland China, well, they probably need 6 or 8 capitals just to be able to find one. Big place, that!

Micah

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#172
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/24/2009 10:47 AM

I was also thinking about using the capital as the average location for a country. Canada is another example of where this assumption will skew results. Those in Toronto, which is relatively close to the capital of Ottawa, may think they are the centre of the universe (no insult intended ), but we western Canadians who live a considerable distance away would seriously beg to differ. That said - I do appreciate your desire to reduce the work involved in this endeavour at least a little bit.

Another comment - did you think about using a Mercator Projection map to keep the analysis in 2 dimensions?

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#173
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/24/2009 11:04 AM

When you look in detail to the Mercator projection it is a polar transformation of a sphere surface to a flat surface. (don't shoot me on the terminology wording)

The whole discussion here is whether to use a full 3d Cartesian coordinate system or a polar system.

But I think that we should keep the data discrete and look to the mode, do a Pareto analysis and weight the results on the value of the answers we give.

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#175
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/24/2009 4:03 PM

Gwen,

That's exactly the kind of thinking that I've been hoping for. I've dressed up my own approach to a specific problem, under the guise of 'where is CR4'. If taken with a pinch of salt, the data set can be used to compare different peoples methods. It's my contention that people schooled in different areas of science/engineering can end up with a very fixed view of how data is handled, especially where set allocation is 'fuzzy'. By comparing views, we might all learn something of possible use. By using a data set loosely based on geographical locations, people at any level of knowledge can grasp the concepts. I'm working up an answer, phrased so that people at any level can follow the maths as far as their interest takes them. I've no doubt that the wide range of expertize on CR4 can give me plenty of insights into different approaches. Hopefully others can benefit in a similar way. If nothing else, pondering 3D geometry in the head is good brain exercise. Having a few laughs along the way about where the average member lives makes it more enjoyable - it lightens the mood, and encourages off-the wall ideas that people might otherwise not dare to venture in an entirely serious discussion.

I'm not going to comment yet as to whether I agree with your thinking or not (I need to finalize my own data first !), but it's certainly a good post.

Kris

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#55

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 6:07 AM

Kris,

If you are to analyse the CR4 subset re geographical location should you not weight (or derate) the population according to the natural population of each member country. It is only natual that say, India, USA and maybe China CR4 membership will have a larger population simply because the country populations are larger.

If the CR4 membership was representative of normal country population you would be determining the "centroid co-ordinates" of world population. In fact that would be an interesting exercise, where lies the co-ordinates of the world population ?

And then, if you want to find the inverse - http://www.ubasics.com/dighole/

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#64
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 8:00 AM

Hi AussieBob,

It would be fairer to do so, but involve a lot more work (I hate inputting data, and just 36 countries was more than enough). The stated thread title is bit diversionary. There are 36 countries used and 355 members in total. The 355 members are more significant to my goal, and assigning them to one city in each country is a short cut to my goal. I'm being very slippery about what it is, but have explained why within the thread (maximize input from different people). The end result will be a reasonably good answer to the question as posed. It will become clearer in due course.

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#61

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 7:47 AM

Hi Kris, after all a nice presentation on how to get lost in data.

But never forget: a statistician drowns in a river with an average depth of only 1m.

Which you have nicely proven.

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#63

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 7:58 AM

I discovered the reason for world over recession!!!

Engineers are not working,

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#65
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 8:06 AM

Nope, marketing and production can't handle the real work load we can produce so from time to time we have to prioritize and give them a possibility to catch up.

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#67

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 8:41 AM

Greetings.

Now if you squeezed all of the continents together the center of land mass would be the Great Pyramid in Egypt.

If that is center how does it run out?

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#68

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 8:42 AM

A little reminder: Boston, Massachusetts is the center of the universe:

http://www.universalhub.com/glossary/hub.html

Just ask anybody that lives there.

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#71
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 9:02 AM

I hope you haven't attempted to revaeal this to the good people of Texas

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#83
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 3:28 PM

Oh ya, Texas. I know how to get there, it's 2 exits past Neptune, on the left.

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#76
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 10:18 AM

Read this and you will realize that there is no discernible "center of the universe". Thusly, Boston does not actually exist, sorry Bricktop.

Where is the centre of the universe?

There is no centre of the universe! According to the standard theories of cosmology, the universe started with a "Big Bang" about 14 billion years ago and has been expanding ever since. Yet there is no centre to the expansion. It is the same everywhere. The Big Bang should not be visualised as an ordinary explosion. The universe is not expanding out from a centre into space. The whole universe itself is expanding and it is doing so equally at all places, as far as we can tell.

In 1929 Edwin Hubble announced that he had measured the speed of galaxies at different distances away and had discovered that the further they were away from us the faster they were receding. This seems to suggest that we are at the centre of the expanding universe, but it must be remembered that motion is relative. If the universe is expanding uniformly according to Hubble's law it will appear to do so from any galaxy.

If we see a galaxy B moving away from us at 10,000 km/s, an alien in galaxy B will see our galaxy A moving away from it at 10,000 km/s in the opposite direction. If there is another galaxy C twice us far away in the same direction as B we will see it moving at 20,000 km/s and the alien will see it moving at 10,000 km/s.

A B C from A 0km/s 10,000km/s 20,000km/s from B -10,000km/s 0km/s 10,000km/s

So, from the point of view of the alien at B everything is expanding away from it, which ever direction it looks in, just the same as it does for us.

The Famous Balloon Analogy.

A good way to help visualise the expanding universe is to compare space with the surface of an expanding balloon. This analogy was used by Arthur Eddington as early as 1933 in his book The Expanding Universe. It was also used by Fred Hoyle in the 1960 edition of his popular book The Nature of the Universe. Hoyle wrote, "My non-mathematical friends often tell me that they find it difficult to picture this expansion. Short of using a lot of mathematics I cannot do better than use the analogy of a balloon with a large number of dots marked on its surface. If the balloon is blown up the distances between the dots increase in the same way as the distances between the galaxies."

The balloon analogy is very good but needs to be understood properly otherwise it can cause more confusion. As Hoyle said "There are several important respects in which it is definitely misleading." It is important to appreciate that three dimensional space is to be compared with the two dimensional surface of the balloon. The surface is homogeneous with no point which should be picked out as the centre. The centre of the balloon itself is not on the surface and should not be thought of as the centre of the universe. If it helps you can think of the radial direction in the balloon as time. This was what Hoyle suggested, but it can also be confusing. It is better to regard points off the surface as the balloon as not being part of the universe at all. As Gauss discovered at the beginning of the 19th century, properties of space such as curvature can be described in terms of intrinsic quantities which can be measured without needing to think about what it is curving in. So space can be curved without there being any other dimensions outside. Gauss even tried to determine the curvature of space by measuring the angles of a large triangle between three hill tops.

When thinking about the balloon analogy you must remember that. . .

  • The 2-dimensional surface of the balloon is analogous to the 3 dimensions of space.
  • The 3-dimensional space in which the balloon is embedded is not analogous to any higher dimensional physical space.
  • The centre of the balloon does not correspond to anything physical.
  • The universe may be finite in size and growing like the surface of an expanding balloon but it could also be infinite.
  • Galaxies move apart like points on the expanding balloon but the galaxies themselves do not expand because they are gravitationally bound.

... but if the Big Bang was an explosion

In a conventional explosion material expands out from a central point. A short moment after the explosion starts the centre will be the hottest point. Later there will be a spherical shell of material expanding away from the centre until gravity brings it back down to Earth. The Big Bang as far as we understand it was not an explosion like that at all. It was an explosion of space, not an explosion in space. According to the standard models there was no space and time before the big bang. There was not even a "before" to speak of. So, the Big Bang was very different from any explosion we are accustomed to and it does not need to have a central point.

If the big bang were an ordinary explosion in an already existing space we would be able to look out and see the expanding edge of the explosion with empty space beyond. Instead we see back towards the big bang itself and detect a faint background glow from the hot primordial gases of the early universe. This Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR) is uniform in all directions. This tells us that it is not matter which is expanding out wards from a point but rather, it is space itself which expands evenly.

It is important to stress that other observations support the view that there is no centre to the universe, at least in so far as observations can reach. The fact that the universe is expanding uniformly would not rule out the possibility that there is some denser, hotter place that might be called the centre, but careful studies of the distribution and motion of galaxies confirm that it is homogeneous on the largest scales we can see, with no sign of a special point to call the centre.

The cosmological principle

The idea that the universe should be uniform (homogeneous and isotropic) over very large scales was introduced as the "cosmological principle" by Arthur Milne in 1933. Not long before that, it had been argued by some astronomers that the universe consisted of just our galaxy and the centre of the Milky Way would have been the centre of the universe. Hubble put an end to that debate in 1924 when he showed that other galaxies exist outside our own. Despite the discovery of a great deal of structure in the distribution of the galaxies most cosmologists still hold to the cosmological principle either for philosophical reasons or because it is a useful working hypothesis which no observation has contradicted. Nevertheless, our view of the universe is limited by the speed of light and the finite time since the big bang. The observable part is very large but it is probably very small compared to the whole universe, which may even be infinite. We have no way of knowing what the shape of the universe is beyond the observable horizon and no way of knowing whether the cosmological principle has any validity on the largest distance scales possible.

In 1927 Georges Lemaître found solutions of Einstein's equations of general relativity in which space expands. He went on to propose the big bang theory with those solutions as a model of the expanding universe. The best known class of solutions that Lemaître looked at were the homogeneous solutions now known as the Friedman-Lemaitre-Robertson-Walker (FLRW) models. (Friedmann found the solutions first but did not think of them as reasonable physical models). It is less well known that Lemaître found a more general class of solutions which describe a spherically symmetrical expanding universe. These solutions, now known as Lemaître-Tolman-Bondi (LTB) models describe possible forms for the universe which could have a centre. Since the FLWR models are actually a special limiting case of the LTB models we have no sure way of knowing that the LTB models are not correct. The FLWR models may just be good approximations which work well within the limits of the observable universe but not beyond.

Of course there are many other even less uniform shapes the universe could have with or without an identifiable centre. If it turned out to have a centre on some scale beyond the observable universe that might turn out to be just one of many centres on much larger scales, just as the centre of our galaxy did before.

In other words; although the standard big bang models describe an expanding universe with no centre, and this is consistent with all observations, there is still a possibility that these models are not accurate on scales larger than we can observe. Our ignorance about the real answer to the question "Where is the centre of the universe?" is complete.

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#77
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 12:10 PM

I hate to tell you (not really), not so smart:, but the page I looked at said "copyright" in red letters at the top.

oh-oh .......Might be best to go confess any sins to Admin. I'm not saying anything to them, but they tend to notice these things. Might be better to plead temporary insanity to Mr Leonard before he puts you in the naughty chair . It'll play a whole lot better if you let him know yourself and plead for forgiveness. He's not gonna like his Sunday being interupted........

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#78
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 12:27 PM

but it wasn't temporary insanity, I'm always this way!

I never claimed that I wrote it, just borrowed it for a sec.

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#98
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 3:52 AM

'borrowed' ? I usually apply the term 'liberated'

Are you sitting down ?........well......I was just having a bit of fun......seeing if I could get you to go knock on the Headmasters office......."Please, Sir......Ever so sorry.........I bought some gum into school........one of the other boys told me it was naughty........is it true about the cane?..... please....didn't know.. I I " "What the crap are you blabbering on about, nss ? Can't you see I'm enjoying my doughnuts. Bugger off you pillock. They've all got gum, and I know it damn well. I've half a mind to give to give you a damn good thrashing, just for falling into that one. For Gods sake, learn to hide it like the others do"

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#130
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 1:50 PM

What do you mean by borrow or liberated?

They are all made of the usual a-z and A-Z and the spacial characters - arn't they ?

Are those characters copyrighted ? I never thought they were .

Then a combinations of those in a pattern can be ? I don't think so,

Tomorrow you are going to say that your DNA is copyrighted- do not steal, analyse... without your express permission and that too after paying royalty.

Now to think of it , how you can copyright anything ? everything is made of all those 108 elements, in different proportions and designs .

And copyright = copy + right

That means

a) If you copy you are right. The corollary if you don't you are wrong and then I report to CL

b) Copying is your right. If Somebody doesn't allow you to copy then they are tresspassing into (or violating ?) your most fundamental right. Then I sue for $1b for mental agony and so on.

(please send the amount before I send the lawyers notice - of course i am ready to compromise an off the courst settlement - send me some nuts you have stolen from Del's and stored in your drey.

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#133
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 4:51 PM

They are all made of the usual a-z and A-Z and the spacial characters - aren't they ?

Well a song is just a bunch of notes, but try explaining that to Paul McCartney !

Can't send you any nuts, I'm busy re-stocking ;

Here we go gathering nuts in March, Nuts in March, nuts in March, Here we go gathering nuts in March, On a cold and frosty morning.

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#146
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 10:26 PM

And I thought Rabbits hares go nuts in march

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#147
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 10:28 PM

song is just a bunch of notes.

Agreed but those notes are Greenbacks .

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#154
In reply to #147

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/24/2009 2:37 AM

.....so are hardbacks and paperbacks $£$£$£$ $£$£$£$

Still, there's always places like Project Guttenberg....where you can get pluckered !

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#85
In reply to #76

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 3:38 PM

Just another conspiracy theory, probably dreamed up at Princeton.

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#125
In reply to #76

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 10:17 AM

No center of the Universe according to the theories of Cosmetology.

That's provocative.

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#69

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 8:42 AM

it seems like you are working for big brother and invading what little privacy and dignity we have left.

I am sure your handlers requested this information to conspire against the countries haven't the most engineers, as it is not fair to the 3rd world countries with less.

Perchance, your ultimate nefarious scheme is to force engineers from The US and India to these emerging countries.

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#73
In reply to #69

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 9:09 AM

As you'll see, so far I've focussed everybody into Mali. In a way that might be quite a good thing !

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#75
In reply to #73

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 9:37 AM

Ah so, after this past winter here in PA, Mali sounds wonderful.

Thanks for the link, now to pack for travel to a new gig somewhere in the world.

Later.

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#70

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 8:45 AM

Hi Kris,

It is good analysis but not a true picture of location of Engineers in the globe. Reason being many nations do not speak English, such as Europe, China, Thailand,Russia etc.so they are not members of this forum.So it is summary of English speaking Engineers.

Suresh.Sharma.

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#74
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 9:24 AM

That's very true, suresh sharmer.

If I had the language skills, I'd love to read some sites run by/for non English speaking engineers. I'm sure there must be some good ones out there. It would be equally true to suggest that many CR4 members don't' wish to have a national flag alongside their avatar picture, or to give a location. However, the lack of that information does not interfere with what is a generalized statistical problem using a data set that happened to be readily available.

As I recall, CR4 Admin are very open to request from anybody who would like to see their national flag available under the user groups. If anybody is in the position of wanting a user group for their country, a message to Admin would probably result in a positive response (I urge anybody doing so to first check if their country is represented within the 'User Group' listing on the right of screen). Registered members can subscribe to an existing User Group by following the screen menu.

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#72

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 9:02 AM

I am sure that we are somewhere in the middle of the Indian...............er Pacific...................or was that the Atlantic ocean..............no...........its the Strait of Hormuz..............on the good ship "Venus".............better watch out out for those bloody Yankee subs though, or we'll all be in shit sea!!!!!!!!

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#81

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 1:50 PM

Kris,

I think you have too much spare time too..

You've made a hard work, but it reminds me the classical statistics joke: Statistics is the science which demonstrates that when I eat a roasted chicken and you eat nothing, we both have eaten an average of half roasted chicken!!!

The study doesn't reflects "where the average CR4 member is from", that doesn't need to take into account any coordinates, just countries or cities. You've calculate just the geographical place whose average distance to the CR4 members home is minimum. Quite different thing.

Very interesting and funny anyway

Kind regards

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#82

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 2:37 PM

Kris,

Joining CR4 in March 2007, in 2 years you are averaging more than 11 posts a day and you want to hide from the onslaught?

You can not. I diagnose you with CR4 fever, a welcome one

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#84

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 3:34 PM

Without knowing the true and final intent of the analysis, I would refuse to perform any calculations, unless you are paying me by the hour. I can't understand why you would choose to group averages by city, and without knowing the purpose, that will lead to a skewed result. Average location does not necessarily have anything to do with capital cities, or political definitions of any kind.

I tend to agree with Gwen, in leaving the map flat. I don't see much value in the spherical representation.. again, there are potential distortions either way, that can't be resolved unless you know what the purpose is. Accuracy is dependent upon the answer being sought, as the methods and structuring of the data are driven by relevant conditions.

Chris

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#86

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 3:48 PM

Boredom can come in various forms.

You seem to be mathematically adept, could you not use the resources you have for some thing useful? Maybe teaching high school slow learners who are struggling with math?

I tried really hard but could not figure out the purpose of your exercise.

By the way , you missed my country on your listing.

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#87
In reply to #86

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 4:11 PM

Entertainment comes in many forms, and it's not for you to decide what another man enjoys.

Many are glued in front of the boob tube today watching mindless sit-coms. Today is also a big day if your into college basketball. Do you consider that a more worthwhile pursuit?

Actually using your brain for whatever you find interesting, will keep you from drooling in your sneaker for a few more years anyway.

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#99
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 4:03 AM

I'd love to indulge you, djacob. As far as I know, "Caribbean" doesn't' count as a country. If you were of a mind to request a new member country, complete with flag, I'd be happy to include it in any further analysis. You need to apply here.

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#123
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 9:13 AM

Well, I listed Caribbean since the country I live in, Trinidad & Tobago, may be mind boggling for you to find. But then again , you have so much spare time and nothing constructive to do with it.

Like I said before , I would have considered helping my fellow man at a high school or even better yet , an adult class for persons desirous of correcting the educational ignorance of their youth.

You seem to have quite a following with this unique but relatively useless subject which you have posted , I am surprised to see the quantity of notices I have received on my email.

Perferctly understandable, though.

There is actually a book written about the phenomenon, the book is called " The Madness of Crowds". No aspersions casted here. Its topics are interesting from the medieval witch hunting period to the European tulip era.

Try it during all this spare time you seem to have.

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#131
In reply to #123

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 1:59 PM

Well it looks and Idle work No doubt

But as an statistician engineer, i am looking at Kris's work (I still am not getting the logic why he didn't average the polar coordinates r,θ,Φ (of course I will remove the r since we are least bothered about the height from sea level )

You know these mathematical statistical treatise have their own use and I may save it once i get why the squirrel is doing it thisway (and not by the polars) and later patent it and not pay the squirrel anything .

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#135
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 5:15 PM

Let's start being nasty: was the data normal?

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#141
In reply to #135

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 6:01 PM

The date here isn't normal. I'm sure there is no 23rd month

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#148
In reply to #135

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 10:39 PM

Did you seriously believe that from Kris will give any type of data which can be even remotely normal ?

I am surprised and dismayed my friend at your lack of knowledge about a particular member of the phylum Chordata subphylum Vertebrata, class Mammalia, order Rodentia,family Sciuridae (one of the 50 species and the one of the 3b population)

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#137
In reply to #123

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 5:28 PM

djacob,

I made what I thought was a helpful suggestion with regard to your country not being listed. If you had read my posts here, you would have known that my interest is not specifically in where members live. It's of no concern to me if you approach Admin to have them list Trinidad & Tobago, the Caribbean, or whatever planet your mind exists in, as a user group.

I read your comment about education/teaching. I also ignored it, since it has no bearing on the thread topic. There is an entirely serious issue beneath the thread title, but you have also failed to notice posts to that effect. That being the case, you will also have failed to comprehend why I have introduced the topic in a manner that will make it easier to comprehend.

CR4 have added the facility to enable people to un-subscribe from thread. If you take your head out of your arse, you may be able to find it.

When you insult me, after I have tried to assist you in getting recognition for your county on CR4, I'm not likely to be very pleased. It's unfortunate that you are unable to grasp the nature of the topic. Mapping data in 3 dimensions, rather than 2, is not something everybody is familiar with.

What I do with my time is none of your business, and it's certainly way beyond you comprehension.

"I would have considered helping my fellow man"

You have no discernible ability to do so, and your inability think, or act with courtesy, will leave you in that position.

My time in pointing out the absurdity of your rambling will not be wasted if you take your invective and piss-off.

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#149
In reply to #137

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 10:43 PM

I don't see the Republic of Texas, Erstwhile in USSA, in your chart (at least what I could see with a microscope after going inside the server)

Infact I don't see USSA either (did you leave the S the letter of alphabet, don't pronounce it out ?)

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#155
In reply to #149

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/24/2009 2:47 AM

If the Texans ever persuade Admin to give them a Teaxs membership flag, I'll consider including them. sb anomalies will be hosed in due course.

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#239
In reply to #123

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

06/22/2009 10:05 AM

You'd be surprised at how many British people do know where Trinidad and Tobago are - not least because a) many British citizens hale from there somewhere in their lineage and b) they contribute to the West Indies Cricket Team and The Queen's Park Oval has, I'm sure, welcomed the English Test side.

You also seemed to have missed the point that Kris is doing this for some nefarious serious reason of his own that he doesn't want to tell us about (typical squirrel) and that this is an example of the method with some trivial data. Open your mind...

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#241
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

06/22/2009 10:19 AM

Nicely spoken, ER . You've far more kindness/patience than I do in dealing with such people .

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#243
In reply to #123

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

06/22/2009 10:39 AM

A lovely book, well worth a read in light of current events!

As for *relatively useless subject* I think all participants would agree that the exercise (this thread) is completely useless in comparison to such worthy endeavors as helping high school students with their mathematics.

But that is frequently done in other threads, and our noble squirrel is a frequent contributer to more lofty efforts.

But inadvertantly or not, he has here created a playground of silliness that has resonated surprisingly with fellow hard working engineers.

I'm am encouraging this effort by flogging him for his undelivered results in many forums where our paths cross, not because I am deeply interested, but because it gives me an excuse to flog the squirrel. Whom I have grown fond of.

But I certainly would not judge either CR4 or Kris by our group silliness.

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#246
In reply to #243

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

06/22/2009 11:58 AM

gives me an excuse to flog the squirrel

- I probably shouldn't say so in public, but I'm rather enjoying it !

Totally agree about giving a guiding hand to students - everyone's a winner in doing that. Those seeking guidance, and those giving a helping hand.

The one thing that baffles me is that some people can see no value in stretching their minds. I'd liken it to somebody at school/college who only follows the set areas of study, and never dares to try and think originally. Unless presented with a clear-cut problem and need for an answer, their brain just doesn't operate. To dismiss abstract mental exercise as worthless is about as thick as thick gets. Presumably such a person would see physical exercise as pointless, the Challenge Questions as without value, etc.

It matters not a jot to me whether or not I finally post a meaningful summary or answer here on forum. The value for anyone, is to consider the question and how they might solve it. Eventually I'll work up an answer, but the overall nature of attitudes to learning has become more interesting on the thread. Like yourself and ER, their are a number of people who see the value of abstract thinking, but a fair number who don't. Mostly tongue-in-cheek, but a few who are simply head-up-arse.

At present, the collective wisdom says, "Have much spare time?" at GA=2. With the added thoughts of my Caribbean chum, I've been so far inclined toward "No, you'll just have to figure what learning is before I spoon feed you something". The majority of thread comment is a mix of fun and useful comment, but if a few ignorants poo in the sandpit then it's not so attractive to play in. I'll do so eventually because there are those who are constructive and fun to chat with. For now, it can remain 'as-is', I'd rather anyone visiting considered the matter of learning in general than an attempt at a specific answer. The former is more important than the latter.

With that pontifical thought, I shall away to continue playing elsewhere. I will, however, be back. Nos vemos en la bañera or something like that !

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#248
In reply to #246

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

06/22/2009 1:06 PM

Nos vemos en la bañera

Ah, witty squirrel!

And I'm sorry - no points for "I've considered helping..."

By daffynition - time spent on CR4 should be my free time, and how I spend it up to me and mine. I paid for it, not open to criticism.

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#250
In reply to #248

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

06/22/2009 2:25 PM

...I speak babel. Dread to think what I've said to people on occasion, the plain English is bad enough at times.

"I've considered helping..." huh ? That's a St. djacob quote, which I told him he probably wasn't up to anyway.

Did I mention the affiliate program ? Gets me 1p/click everytime somebody gets lured to a certain sanitary-ware website.... yeah, it's a p take !

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#252
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

06/22/2009 2:43 PM

As is often the case ...(dense perhaps) I was having a time telling whether this was sardonic humor or sheer snottiness. Humor in written word is so easily understood, and while I will grant that sardonic is more clever - also more liable to misinterpretation - so I try to be gentle lest I have miss-understood.

yeah, it's a p take !

I stagger back in horror!

Have you NO shame man?

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#253
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

06/23/2009 2:26 AM

ROFPMSL !

Did I mention the affiliate program ? Gets me 1p/click everytime somebody gets lured to a certain sanitary-ware website.... yeah, it's a p take !

Thought that might leave you hangin', until I'd had a nice kip....My sentence construction can be slightly misleading at times. It's actually deliberate in that case, just to tease a little. As far as I know, Armitage Shanks and the like don't run affiliate programs of the pay/click variety. It's my suggesting that they do, or that I'd misdirect anybody to one, that's the piss take - not that any thread here is a piss take. 'Taking the piss' is a fairly malleable expression, much clearer if spoken. Just some mild word-play fun ; getting one penny would surely equate to taking 1p from somebody ? These things really fall apart when explained, though I somehow doubt you'd be so cynical as to misinterpret and are probably giggling at my efforts to explain !

Shame ? What's that ?

Now I think about it, 'shame' is a bit of a useless word ; Things are best don't brazenly and at full-throttle since it's an inhibiting emotion that can stifle free thinking. Also, if things go belly up, wallowing in shame had no value since it's best to accept a situation has occurred and put it right. It's a bit like 'pity' in that respect. Now that I'm on a tangential roll (the sandwiches were all taken ), I'll also add that empathy wins over sympathy.

Haven't got the foggiest idea why I'm rambling, because I'm quite sure you understand my post ! Still I need to do something with a first post of the day whilst my coffee sinks in, and trying to educate you seems as good as anything*

* Put the gun down - that's my snot-face-*******, tongue-in-cheek, wind-up, see-if-he-falls-for-it, chummily-intended, damn-I-need-another-coffee, run-for-the-hills, joke mode !

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#254
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

06/23/2009 8:35 AM

Had your coffee?

And yea verily, the explanation is way funnier than the joke

And YOUR joke wasn't near as funny as the joke *I* thought it was

If you are really bored you can look up Take (subvarient p-take) or just let it slide - (it's a software thing)

AND CONGRATULATIONS!

Britain is now officially MORE EVIL than the United States! - According to Iranians.

And you lot thought Gordon was sluffing off

All kidding aside - excellent move! Love the line about American news lacking weight and credibility!

BBC Persian TV channel, which was set up to provide impartial news and analysis, in Farsi, to an audience that is squeezed between state-controlled TV and US-based stations which lack weight or credibility

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#88

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 8:47 PM

What????????????????

Timbuktu? Huh?

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#89

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 8:57 PM

So you put us on the map physically.

Can you also make a table where we are located mentally?

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#122
In reply to #89

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 7:55 AM

Can you also make a table where we are located mentally?

For my part, it wouldn't work. Well, maybe space might be representative. But space isn't REALLY a vacuum, anyway, so the closest it could get to being representative would be of the "space" between my ears.

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#143
In reply to #122

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 7:59 PM

Could be a graph from Lahlah land to hades? 0 would be the space between your(our) heads?

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#124
In reply to #89

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 9:18 AM

As explained, Kris assumed everyone at sea level.

But for you: your CR4 location is Holland and you are actually in Japan, which could influence the average again.

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#144
In reply to #124

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 8:04 PM

And mentally i am in purgatory, hey and 70% of the dutch people are below sealevel!

And i don't want it to make it to easy for Kris

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#90

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 10:22 PM

Hi Kris,

WELL, you are a busy guy, but I LIKE IT . Despite the comments to the contrary, to me it looks more like ENTERTAINMENT ... I find myself doing this kind of 'stuff' all the time ... some proves useful, some nonsense, but all is (for me) interesting, AND it keeps me from falling asleep in the brief intervals between interruptions, phone calls, and real work. (and, before anyone laughs, this 'playing' has netted a couple of patents and a lot of design tools / software over the years, so I encourage it in my staff.)

For me, however, this data would be more interesting if it netted some geographic information that could overlay other industrial, economic, or population data. For instance, if there seemed to be a CR4 'hotspot', and that coincided with some form of R&D 'hotspot', that might be interesting. Or if the data seemed consistent with regions of population density, or economic density, or political stability (or, or, or), that, too, might be interesting.

We've all see these types of maps for Olympic Games, Political Elections, Population Density, etc. It might be interesting to see the same for CR4 members, or CR4 contributions, or even CR4 Good Answers. Not sure what it would actually tell us, BUT, seeing 'white zones' might actually promote others to 'join' to 'tilt the map' a little. Who knows?

Anyway, Kris ... I like the idea of knowing who's where

Kind regards ....

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#101
In reply to #90

Playing

03/23/2009 4:11 AM

I would never laugh at 'playing', I'm fully with you...it's just a shame that most managers and all accountants don't understand this, (which is why my arrow chronograph is on hold.)

Two of my better work projects/designs came about in spite of rather than because of officialdom.

Del

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#102
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 4:12 AM

Glad you like it

Once the basic model is established, it can be applied for a wide variety of purposes. I'm only interested in spherical geometry, though I could adapt the model so that it gives a more accurate reflection of city locations on the Earth.

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#104
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 4:17 AM

WTF is you new snigagture on about?
To egg on (5 letters)
Toast!
Del

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#109
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 4:30 AM

I feel your pain - not enough tea either.

Will you be performing Poussin Boots this year ?

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#113
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 4:48 AM

Only if you do the Nutcracker...Sweet
Del

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#115
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 5:08 AM

As long as the don't need me to 'do' Cinderalla

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#116
In reply to #109

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 5:42 AM

Was it something like this you had in mind Kris

............and is this acting????

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#117
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 6:12 AM

Yes that's definitely acting...really hamming it up.

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#168
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/24/2009 5:13 AM

Here tell, Del (that rhymes well).........that they wouldn't let you ham it up with Mickey and Minnie Mouse,

..................after all you know what pussy cats and mieces are like...............and we could not have a world without Mickey Mouse............it would just be unthinkable. Could have one like this!!!!!!!

Think of the poor kiddies!!!!

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#166
In reply to #104

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/24/2009 5:04 AM

Perhaps it's an anagram (as "mother in law" is to "hitler woman")?

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#106
In reply to #102

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 4:22 AM

Can't we automate it?

A new user information which contains your location on the globe and a system wich calculates the average position?

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#110
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 4:34 AM

It's already done (more or less).

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#91

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 11:04 PM

OK, for another approach:

Imagine you are a ham radio operator. You own a station with a beam antenna (aerial, to you Brits) that you can rotate to talk with other hams all around the world. You have logged thousands of contacts. One day, while going through your log books, you begin to wonder if all of your contacts could be averaged by location.

You get an azimuthal equidistant map of based on your location. You mark the location of every contact, then draw a vector from your location to each contact. Then you average all the vectors.

Of course, this takes days. You don't have time for regular meals, so you resort to a diet of nuts. To seek relief from the mental stress, you sign up for a membership on an interesting website, CR4. You choose a picture of a squirrel as your avatar, for that best expresses how you see yourself.

Then you get to wondering about that bathtub you smashed up. Does the distribution of the pieces resemble the distribution of your contacts?

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#103
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 4:16 AM

LOL ! Bouncing stuff off the ionosphere (or whatever it is) would somewhat complicate things.

So.... when did you become a milk maid ? Hope the cow didn't kick the bucket as well as the stool

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#152
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/24/2009 1:12 AM

Do I look like a milk maid to you?



Youe nied yore aiyes chichked!

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#153
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/24/2009 2:05 AM

I thought more like this

I don't know, i somehow remembered this Dutch masterpiece differently

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#157
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/24/2009 3:03 AM

ROFL

If you can convince me you drew that one as well, I'll be even further impressed.

It gets better.....

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#119
In reply to #91

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 6:48 AM

Oh, no. Not that damn bathtub again....

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#92

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/22/2009 11:22 PM

I just figured out what Kris is doing. A real estate search for the location of the CR4 assisted living home. Won't that be fun? All of us together in one supervised facility.

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#93
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 1:11 AM

Fun for whom? Not the Supervisors. But heaven for us!

Semi controlled experiments of rubber vs aluminum bullets, repeating crossbow darts, low friction boccie ball games, invention of the week, Tesla's cabal, subscription to all the major scientific journals (staff will try to fake reading those), the area of dead languages, gearhead garage, CR4 senate et al publishings, Beowulf cluster hacks. etc.

Like I said heaven.

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#94
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Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 2:37 AM

And me in all those gadgets , It will be fun for CL.

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#95

How does CR4 track location?

03/23/2009 3:12 AM

So, how does CR4 track location? I just went to the location here "South Africa" and noticed that I was not listed. In my user profile I have my location as "Cape Town, South Africa". There is no other way to indicate location in the Edit Profile page. Are there format rules for enter one's location? From what I have discovered, there may be many more users whose location is not flagged in your survey.

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#96
In reply to #95

Re: How does CR4 track location?

03/23/2009 3:20 AM

OK. I just discovered that to be affiliated to a country one needs to join that country's User Group. So I'll go ahead and do that...

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#105
In reply to #96

Re: How does CR4 track location?

03/23/2009 4:19 AM

Stop joining user groups now, we are in the middle of a difficult exercise.

Now we have to start over again.

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#107
In reply to #96

Re: How does CR4 track location?

03/23/2009 4:22 AM

I mentioned the user groups somewhere, but I'm glad you've found it South Africa has a fairly large contingent, though like all the others you get lumped into one city. I think I've listed the Northing correctly. Shame what happened to the Australians . I'll tweak the settings at some point.

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#180
In reply to #107

Re: How does CR4 track location?

03/26/2009 7:35 AM

Shame what happened to the Australians

I must have been asleep............what happened............I didn't feel anything!!!!

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#183
In reply to #180

Re: How does CR4 track location?

03/26/2009 8:12 AM

............what happened............

....Northing much

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#186
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Re: How does CR4 track location?

03/26/2009 9:52 AM

.............you didn't.............did you...............you did.........Richard Cranium!!!!!!

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#190
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Re: How does CR4 track location?

03/26/2009 12:11 PM

ROFL ! I should supervise my minions better

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#97

Re: Is the average CR4 member in Timbuktu ?

03/23/2009 3:37 AM

Hi Kris,

It seems reactions are quite hot and comical too.But do not worry I appreciate your efforts and data gathered, some one may not like the findings but some one can make use of it.Probably CR4 Admin can use it. I had been recommending my friends in India to be members and acquire sea of technical knowledge from this Forum.

Suresh Sharma.

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