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Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 4:26 PM

Is it possible in this Internet/Google/Wiki day and age - that we can not know something as common to us all as the origin of the most popular child's taunt?

And before the mail comes pouring in - I did want to ask - IS this taunt common to all children?

So wade in with votes:

Grew up with it

Didn't grow up with it

And especially important - where does it come from and how does it end - I've found three different second stanzas.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Liar_Liar_Pants_on_Fire

http://www.businessballs.com/clichesorigins.htm#liar_liar_pants_on_fire_expression

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#1

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 4:43 PM

Now look old chap, you've been on this site for some time now, so I feel it's time one of us took you quietly to one side and explained how to do links which work.
Come on, it's nothing to be ashamed of, Kris introduced me to the guilty pleasures of linking as he is the Linkmeister himself.
Allow me to divulge the arcane mysteries.

Copy the address of your link with a select & 'cut' or 'shift delete' manoever.
Highlight a word in your post which you wish to point to the link and which will become blue and underlined. Click on the link symbol (5th icon along abve the post) do a 'paste' or 'shift insert' into the 'URL' box then click submit.
here's one
Once you've done it we'll PM you details of the secret handshake...
Del

PS You can test it when you 'Preview Comment'

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 5:19 PM

I need to learn how to do this too!

If I go now from where I am to Edit, copy is not an option available to me.

Paste is.

In the order of things this implies that I need to be organized, and somewhere else, like Wikepedia, do as you instruct, put that in a file, or on a clipboard, then login, and do shift delete, or select and cut, to make the link instant to go to from within a post, I might post.

I do agree that it is tantamount to a secret handshake, and I myself ought to be able to do it, though I do think it is sometimes overused.

Overall it is wonderful to see some of your cranky side on a run today.

Sometime there is a spiritually shared season of dangers.

One of my correspondents sent me pictures one of his friends had shared, of a hole from a 45 cal. pistol in his shoe, and a big chunk out of his big toe.

Apparently we need to be careful, for something is in the air.

Currently our two remaining cats, Alistair, and Bernard, are adjusting to the death and disappearance of Pagan.

I think Alistair and Bernard know where Pagan's body is, and will not be quite right in their minds till it is decomposed to bones.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 5:25 PM

Yeah, you need to open another tab, or open explorer a second time of have copied the link alread...like you say you need to be a little organised.
Some of us put in a huge amount of effort just to post on these esteemed threads.
I personally have to walk several miles to get to a computer which is then powered by my frantic pedalling.
I feel maybe some members just aren't willing to go that extra mile for the perfect post... <cough splutter, falls of chair>
Del

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 6:14 PM

Have you considered getting a horse, that was ridden by your favorite cat, to walk around with children, like a Merry Go Round, to power your computer?

There must be a disorganized way for me to operate.

As a crutch I write things down on paper, and will take the time to retype them if I really think they are important.

How do I make the link work from the work then?

What I want to do in a labor intensive way is write down the link that I took the time to write on paper, then drag to blue, then hit someplace to make it work for the rest of everybody, sans the retype I took the time to do.

You Expert Perfect Posters, are beyond us Gurus.

Help me. I need Calculus now!

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 7:02 PM

hi Transcendian,

this is what works for me for the link stuff:

If I'm looking up something on the internet, I open a text editor (notepad or so) and copy/paste the url from the browser into that file, if I might use it for a post, with a note about what it's about.

Highlight the link in the browser (or from your notepad) and control-C to be copy ready. Then go to your message that you're writing at CR4, highlight the word/words you want to link, click on the "insert link" icon, then control-V your link into the url line.

If you want to keep your links transparent, like Edignan, copy the link into your message. Then highlight it and click on the link icon: you'll find it is already in the url line automatically.

cheers

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 6:50 PM

And I, for one, wish to express my appreciation for every day of your presence

So keep pedaling - it's supposed to keep you young!

Meanwhile to accommodate the needs/desires of elderly felines I will be happy to make links of links forevermore (if I but had a hat to doff...)

And did someone say Explorer?

now where is that secret shake?

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#67
In reply to #10

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 8:28 AM

now where is that secret shake?

Here

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#68
In reply to #67

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 8:31 AM

Oh you really are a clever rodent!

And I don't remember green bottles from my childhood - but do remember 99 Bottles of Beer

Maybe you had better parents

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#2

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 4:45 PM

quite common in my youth

don't remember the come back..

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#3

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 4:45 PM

I can't be arsed to type your poxy links in.
Is it something to do with burning witches at the stake.
You guys did a fair bit of it in Salem I believe? (ok..not you personally)
Del

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#7
In reply to #3

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 5:22 PM

Certainly not ME - I like a comely witch

As for links, I suppose I could be persuaded, as I have demonstrated the skill before

I was actually shooting for a bit of transparency, while a hidden link is clean, you never know where you are going until you get there (sort of my life philosophy when I think back)

And right after you show me the seecrect handshake - I'll show you how to do this neat thing we've invented!

Not sure what we'll call it - need something snappy

Snip n Stick?

Copy n Place?

Well nevermind, you can help me name it after I show it to you - it's just wizard!

Going to revolutionize using computers! You'll like it, comes with the mouse!

grouchy ol' fart!

There, now we are both happy

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#13
In reply to #7

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 8:15 PM

Got one for you: "Lucked Out." I grew up with two sayings that sort of confused me.

One was, "Same difference." In my early innocent mind, I did not get how something could be the same and different at the same time.

Now I understand how things can be different, but make no difference, and hence, "same difference".

"You lucked out.", or "I lucked out." bothered me for years and years.

Turns out it comes from prison life.

Getting out is a Lucky event.

Hence one prisoner may well say, or have said to another, "You've Lucked Out."

One guilty prisoner may have said, "I've Lucked Out." meaning he is getting out of prison more from the forces of chance, than righteousness, or innocence.

-the guy that explained the origins of the phrase "Lucked out." had a Doctorate in Physics, but had done three years of hard time for pot in Texas.

We worked as stagehands together on an Eagles, or America show... This phrase was discussed while we kept the Dalite Video screen from blowing away.

He was a smart guy, and very well educated.

Of course after some prison time you have an odd resume`.

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#21
In reply to #13

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 2:56 AM

Oh yes!!!
'Same difference'
REALLY annoys me...it's nonsense! If you are working on a production line making coffee mugs and two come out with no handles....that's the 'same difference' or (25-23) and (6-4) they have the same difference....
Next time I hear someone use the expression in the common nonsensical usage I shall yell 'LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE'

I'm glad you've brought up this vital matter...I shall write to the Prime Minister...perhaps he can address this matter before he resigns.

Del
(PS. Love the back story on Lucked Out...now pass that joint)

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#42
In reply to #7

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 3:54 PM

Certainly not ME - I like a comely witch

Right here ed, I'm right here

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 4:17 PM

Fortunately I am sure I am not the only one who feels so

My comely witch has already found me and we've staked mutual claims.

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#45
In reply to #43

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 4:22 PM

ROFL

That wasn't quite what was in my mind when I typed that.

Note to self: READ the post in the preview screen

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#12
In reply to #3

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 7:46 PM

It's not our fault; we thought they were investment bankers. The three piece suit with tassel loafers hadn't been invented yet, so who could tell?

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#4

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 4:53 PM

Grew up with it.

We didn't have any lines beyond pants on fire - that seemed to be enough.

I guess I thought of "pants on fire" as just a saucy rhyme suitable to liars, no idea where it came from or what it meant. Some suggest it is a reference to the effects of spanking - the parent trip of bygone days.

I guess meanings change in the era of YouTube.. pants firing is, apparently, a real phenomenon, not confined to liars

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 5:03 PM

I grew-up with:

"Liar, liar - pants on fire, hanging from a telephone wire!!"

(Now that I think about it, it was never questioned, and seems like a pretty strange statement)

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#14

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 8:45 PM

My niece never shuts up and I mean never. With people, no people, asleep, and awake the mouth doesn't stop.

She will talk and talk and talk and most times it doesn't even make sense what see is saying. Anyone around younger kids has seen this. Its that nonsensical chatter that drives us adults nuts some days. Its often not logical, or even full word language. just odd sound pattern stuff.

Riming words is just a natural mental language development exercise.

The liar liar one just gets used most because... well it just does. (Kid logic implied)

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#27
In reply to #14

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 9:58 AM

That kid needs therapy, probably has Terrets (sp.?) syndrome.

BTW; 'Nya, nya ,Nyannya, Nya' is universal. (at least on this planet)

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#28
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 10:32 AM

'Nya, nya ,Nyannya, Nya' is universal. (at least on this planet)

Is that missing a syllable? Do you mean: na na na na naaaa na? This is usually sung (if transposed to the key of C): e e c f e c.

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 10:38 AM

Or do you mean
Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah
skiddly-aye doo-die doo-die dah...
Del

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 10:47 AM

marsey-doats and doesey-dotes and liddelamsey-divey a kiddely-divey-too wooden-shoe!

One a my faves!

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 10:51 AM

Mares eat oats and does eat oats and little lambs eat ivy. a kid'll eat ivy too, wouldn't you? No old-timers here...... (methinks this thread is degenerating)

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#33
In reply to #31

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 11:18 AM

Didn't start all that coherent

Certainly wasn't enhanced by the posting of fraudulent Psalms!

We're all gonna burn

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#50
In reply to #27

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 6:21 PM

No. Actually shes very smart. Too smart for her own good. She just talks a lot.

Talks to the animals, plants, walls, what ever will listen. The nonsensical stuff is just that getting carried away with rhyming and word pattern stuff to the point the words are being twisted around just to make a new nonsense word.

Normal healthy kid stuff. She just tends to play out the verbal games far longer than most.

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#90
In reply to #50

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 2:26 PM

"She just talks a lot. Talks to the animals, plants, walls, what ever will listen."

Like this? http://www.snotr.com/video/2630

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#15

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 10:59 PM

I also grew up hearing 'Liar liar pants on fire'.

Then again, I could be lying.

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#16

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/07/2009 11:00 PM

Why are you asking about this, by the way?

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#17

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 12:16 AM

Well, I can't sleep anyway.

Apparently in his book, American Children's Folklore, Simon Bronner asserts that "tradition teaches the child to use sayings in certain situations to make a point emphatically. Such sayings can provide a quick and easy response to the taunt of another child, or a powerful demonstration of the Child's stand."

And according to Urban Dictionary, "it refers to the fact "fibbing" is consider naughty, and pants/bottom 'on fire' is an euphemism for spanking."

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#18

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 12:22 AM

And then there's the bible. From the Psalms of King David:

Psalm XVI:
"... and didst thou lie among us, saying,
'Thy trousers, they burn with a fire as though from Heaven,
thy nose lengthened as though
Lucifer hath pulled it through the eye of a needle...'"

Don't you want to ask an engineering question now?

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 2:03 AM

How long will a camel be if pulled through the eye of the needle?

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#20
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 2:25 AM

Depends. One hump or two?

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#23
In reply to #18

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 8:32 AM

Oh for shame, for shame, for shame

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#24
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 9:36 AM

Wot, me pull a double entendre? I was merely wondering if the camel in question was a bactrian or dromedary.

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#25
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 9:41 AM

This woman goes into a bar and asks for a double ententre...
So the barman gave her one .

Del

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#26
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 9:54 AM

Baby seal walks into a bar and says, "I'll have anything except a Canadian club."

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#118
In reply to #25

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/10/2009 8:58 AM

Europium was peddling that one. Sheesh!

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#34
In reply to #18

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 11:21 AM

Engineering question? Yes.

How did you cleverly engineer this fake Psalms XVI?

Jon

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#36
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 11:33 AM

As I am not a biblical scholar (although I remember having read said tome once), I defend myself as being an expert at the old cut-and-paste and Internet hunt-and-search:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070915160555AAgzB0W

I hope no one is hurling the 'liar liar pants on fire' epithet in my general direction.

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#37
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 11:53 AM

Afraid while your source is there, I am unable to locate within the psalms either related nose, needle, nor trouser

That said - *I* would never cast an aspersion of the sort

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#38
In reply to #36

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 12:30 PM

Sue,

I looked at that website.

You can't be blamed for receiving false information.

There are 11 verses in Psalm 16 (XVI) and none refer to lies and burning.

No fires in your laundry.

Jon

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 12:36 PM

Thanks for the 'absolution'. That'll teach me to double-check before I post something.

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 1:30 PM

Oh NO

The webs isn't trustworthY?

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#22

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 3:43 AM

"Not known at this address. Return to sender."

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#32

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 11:03 AM

"So weigh in with votes:"

I grew up with it from back in the 1940s.

"And especially important - where does it come from and how does it end"

Although it is Biblically based, Jeremiah 29:20 - :23

I like this one:

1810 poem "The Liar" by William Blake

Deceiver, dissembler
Your trousers are alight
From what pole or gallows
Shall they dangle in the night?

When I asked of your career
Why did you have to kick my rear
With that stinking lie of thine
Proclaiming that you owned a mine?

When you asked to borrow my stallion
To visit a nearby-moored galleon
How could I ever know that you
Intended only to turn him into glue?

What red devil of mendacity
Grips your soul with such tenacity?
Will one you cruelly shower with lies
Put a pistol ball between your eyes?

What infernal serpent
Has lent you his forked tongue?
From what pit of foul deceit
Are all these whoppers sprung?

Deceiver, dissembler
Your trousers are alight
From what pole or gallows
Do they dangle in the night?

Blake, a romantic known for his colorful use of supernatural and ballistic imagery, pretty much settled the question of whether or not honesty is the best policy with that poem.

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#57
In reply to #32

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 12:59 AM

Hello kudukdweller9,

I did not read the thread before I replied. Forgive me for this please. It was not done on purpose.

bb

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#58
In reply to #57

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 1:32 AM

It is not a problem.

It just shows that you are a good researcher to find that item.

Jon

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#64
In reply to #58

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 5:49 AM

Did you read the articles on the claimed author William Blake:-

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/William_Blake

There's a similar one for another famous William:-

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Shakespeare

The entry for Wikipedia is brilliantly ironic:-

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Wikipedia

I should point out that I was taken in by the original poem, and, I wrote to Alan Chapman, who had posted the request for sources in the other link from edignan. Alan wrote back very politely pointing out the error of my ways: including the above links.

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#162
In reply to #32

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/11/2009 4:10 PM

Great answer. I don't know if it's the source, but it is by far the best explanation I've ever heard.

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#163
In reply to #162

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/11/2009 4:31 PM

Thanks Roger. Thats very kind of you.

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#35

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 11:25 AM

We seem to be off topic now. As for me, I never heard the childrens taunt mentioned until 25 yrs ago when I moved to the mid-west from the east.

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#41

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 2:55 PM

I go back to 1933 and I was familiar with that limerick back in those days.

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#44
In reply to #41

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 4:20 PM

It's not a limerick...limericks have 5 lines, with a rhyme structure a-a-b-b-a

http://www.poetry-online.org/limericks.htm

When removing a cast iron bath
Our Kris thought it would be a laugh
To use threads to tell
And implicate Del
In the dance up the long garden path

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#46
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 4:48 PM

The Insurance Poem

How long it is I have left to me,

I have no hope to clearly see.

I add my vices,

Two, or Three,

Subtract, and that's what's left to me.

RSD

I call that doggerel.

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#47
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 5:12 PM

I call that doggerel.

I concur

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#65
In reply to #44

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 5:55 AM

ROFLMAO

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#69
In reply to #44

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 8:37 AM

ROFL !

The topical irony, is that nobody belives Del put me up to it ! He did !!!!

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#71
In reply to #69

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 9:13 AM

Ohhhh, liar liar pants on fire!
Del

(And may the conflagration spread to that bushy tail too )

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#73
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 9:29 AM

no, no, NO, you're the liar ! Now give me the blue cup, it's my turn. Want it. Now !Gimme, gimme ! No, give me back the yellow cup now, you've had your turn. me me me ....want the yellow one back.....muuuummmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!! DEL'S CHEATING,,, DEL SPILT HIS DRINK !!!

Dels' a dirty liar,

Del's a dirty liar,

ner ner ne ner ner !

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#74
In reply to #73

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 9:37 AM

****SMACK*****

If you can't play nicely, you don't get to play at all. Now go and tidy your room. And if I hear one more word out of you....

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#75
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 9:47 AM

<tee hee>

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#78
In reply to #75

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 10:24 AM

And don't think I don't know that you've been inciting him! No kitty kibble for you! Go to your box. Now!

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#79
In reply to #78

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 10:34 AM

Yesss ! <high-fives air with self >

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#113
In reply to #79

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/10/2009 5:56 AM

You, my boy, are grounded for the next fortnight - without hazelnuts!!

Cheeky squigle, thinks he can get away with things

Why aren't you in your room!!! And I'm coming in to take the plug off that PC <frown>

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#117
In reply to #113

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/10/2009 8:36 AM

<...coming in to take the plug off that PC ...>

Coo. What a relief! That's the idea! Go for it!

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#123
In reply to #117

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/10/2009 3:58 PM

Do you really want pigeons circling the bothy ? If it came to it.......

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#136
In reply to #123

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/11/2009 4:27 AM

Will they get rid of the bats? It might be a good thing.....

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#137
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/11/2009 4:37 AM

Batsies is nice. When I was a kitten I'd leap about on Summers evenings trying to catch 'em.
Flying mousies like wot the Germans call 'em.... write operas about 'em so that's gotta mean something.
Del

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#139
In reply to #137

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/11/2009 5:20 AM

Hey, ER. Del's being naughty again.

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#140
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/11/2009 5:24 AM

You Bibbing Fastard!

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#179
In reply to #139

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/18/2009 8:27 AM

No he's not, not here anyway. Batsies are nice - and more than capable of evading a curious kitten's grasp. He doesn't chase them any more, do you Del. Do you Del?

And you're stuck with the baties unless they up and decide for themselves to move...how long do they have to be gone before you can bat-proof the bothy?

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#181
In reply to #179

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/18/2009 4:48 PM

Probably depends on the type of bat September is probably the best time of year (not rearing young + colonies disperse to seek new places. If it's winter, just check that nobody is hibernating) in the UK. When you notify the Council <whatsits dept.> about bats/removal, they'll want to come and count etc etc etc etc etc etc..............You could probably get bothy-bat advice here ; "If you know of someone who has committed an offence against a bat or a colony of bats, call 0845 456 4567 and ask to speak to a Wildlife Crime Officer in your local area.".

I'm sure PW knows all that, I was just looking out of curiosity. Sounds like you'd need to have a chat with those lovely people in the Planning Dept.... Keep the bats, it'll be a lot easier.

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#138
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/11/2009 5:17 AM

Poor batsies

Bat netting, or cat-flap style 1-way doors would work. For a modest fee, KresDil™ Disegn Surbcidery might be able to create some sort of 'Batomatic'. The name coincides a bit too much with an ongoing project, but we could work on that.

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#143
In reply to #138

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/11/2009 7:12 AM

Same effect as the Bass-o-Matic?

I like bats - despite they are CLEARLY flying rodentia

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#145
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/11/2009 7:59 AM

They're like flying mice....maybe all that's needed is flying cats

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#147
In reply to #145

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/11/2009 8:27 AM

Yeah, you go ahead and try sending THAT up the flagpole

Don't see Del getting too enthused

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#149
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/11/2009 9:02 AM
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#121
In reply to #113

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/10/2009 3:51 PM

Del put me up to it, just like he did with the bath Del's been designing batteries to use when you pull the plug out; See !!! vermins even been working on some sort of power supply as well. I'm the only honest one here

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#125
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/10/2009 5:09 PM

Indeed...
I always lie, and Kris is definitely telling the truth.
Del

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#126
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/10/2009 5:22 PM

and you are twin brothers by different mothers standing at a junction in the road?

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#180
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/18/2009 9:37 AM

So what would Kris say in answer to the question: "whose fault was it?" ?

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#182
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/18/2009 4:58 PM

I'd keep quiet

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#119
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/10/2009 9:01 AM

How these two characters can organise themselves produce a range of world-famous products under the international KrisDelTM brand name is a complete mystery....

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#124
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/10/2009 4:00 PM

"Chaos always wins because it's better organised"

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#80
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 10:43 AM

That's what they've been lacking so long

Parental guidance

Nice to see you back!

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#81
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 10:53 AM

Are you sure it's not disipline they need?

They have been very very bad

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#82
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 11:00 AM

Aw, they are still at it over in the original bath breaking thread!

And despite my encouragements - she is as bad as they are

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#83
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 11:24 AM

Trust me, she's a whole lot worse ! That bath thread is swamping it's own overflow

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#77
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 10:04 AM

I'll pinch his arm when you ain't lookin'

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#48

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 5:52 PM

Original topic:

Yes, grew up with "Liar, liar, pants on fire!". I was born in '68, and grew up in rural Western New York. Towards the end of childhood ('78 or later) I do recall hearing the "liar, liar, pants on fire, hangin' on a telegraph wire."

On the current kid's TV series, Patrick Star mangles the phrase "Liar, liar, plants for hire!"

Camel ductility when cold-drawn:

According to one version I heard, the parable of the camel and the eye of the needle goes like this: Jesus was asked if it were possible for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus replied, "It is as easy for a rich man to enter heaven as for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle." He then told the rich man to take all he had and give it to the poor.

HOWEVER- according to this version, there was a postern gate in the walls of Old Jerusalem called "the eye of the needle". The city gates were of course locked at night. If a traveler arrived late, he could still bring his camel into the city through the postern gate. But, the camel had to be unloaded, and had to creep through the gate on its knees.

So, according this verson, it is indeed as easy for a rich man to enter heaven as for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle- humbled, and shorn of all his worldly possessions.

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#49
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 6:17 PM

Waoow, Sheer profundity! And from a kid no less. I'm impressed. deserves a GA

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#51
In reply to #48

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/08/2009 7:21 PM

Hi Folks,

Telegraph and telephone wires. Tomorrow it will be a Cel-tower.

King James Bible, Mark 10:23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 10:24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

King James Bible, Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

As you can see "The eye of a needle" is not a specific needle nor a reference to a gate.
The teaching has to do with attachment to the things of the world instead of detachment which is among the spiritual qualities and attributes of the saved. This teaching is only mentioned in these two places.

Materialists made up the story of the camel and the postern gate for sunday school kids or the simple minded.
That's one way that baseless traditions and beliefs fuel the fires of re-lig-u-lous ideas including harmful extremist philosophies.

This thread is a good one for finding out how at least one strange saying came to be. Now we have another.

Jon

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#59
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 4:24 AM

Incidentally the ancient Hebrew words for camel and rope are very similar: camel is probably a bad translation.

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#63
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 5:00 AM

OOOh! I'd not heard that interpretation before. That's interesting. My other post is a summary of current received wisdon and understanding! I'm a Keysian in that "when the evidence changes, then I change my mind".

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#85
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 11:53 AM

Camel hair rope. Beast of burden. Big rope, small eye of needle to represent the burden of attachment to material things?

Hmmmm....

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#60
In reply to #51

Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 4:52 AM

You have quoted only from the king James Bible, a beautiful translation, but just that: a translation (there is something to be said for the Muslims' insistance that the Qu'ran is true only in the original). The Gospels were originally written in Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic, I believe. None of these languages uses the definite/indefinite article found in most Indo-European languages. For most of its history, the Bible was promulgated in Latin which, despite being an Indo-European language, does not have definite/indefinit articles. Thus when the translators eventually came to publish in the vernacular (ironically it was today in 1549 that the BCP was first used, I learnt on Radio 4 this morning), it was not clear to them whether the definite or indefinite article should be used. In their innocence of the geography of the city of Jerusalem at the time of Christ, they assumed he was making a very judgemental comment on the fate of the rich - a message which the Church of the time sought to reinforce in order to keep the serfs where they would be of most use to the holders of powers (including the Church!) and so used the indefinite article (a).

Modern day scholars agree that the use of the definite article (the) is more likely - the existance of the postern gate and its nickname are apparently well documented. And the message that all can go to heaven if they behave correctly fits more closely with the rest of Jeses's teachings.

Please be very careful when using the words from your favourite version of the Bible to reinforce an arguement. The words may have come from God originally, but over the 2000-5000-odd (NewT and Old T) intervening years they have been translated and transposed by fallible men (and it has been men!).

When tempted to hubris on this subject, remember the tale of the elderly librarian monk who prompted by a novice copier who asked "Who checks that there are no mistakes in the documents we are copying, since they too are copies?", checked the ancient original manuscript and came back weeping. The only words he would speak were "It said celebrate! Celebrate!!"

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#62
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 4:56 AM

"It said celebrate! Celebrate!!"

It took a moment for the penny to drop...

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#66
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Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

06/09/2009 7:47 AM

A decided pause - followed by rimshot!

ga-dang

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