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Medical Uses for Honey

12/29/2009 4:53 PM

The use of honey as an antibiotic and an agent to assist in healing severe burns has made its way to several professional researchers. One group of nurses claimed that healing using honey occurs faster and with less infections than using common topical medications. Local honey has also been prescribed for relief of skin allergies etc. P.S. Have you ever seen honey go bad?

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#1

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 5:55 PM

Well, yes I have. I threw out a half jar just a couple months ago. It would have grossed out Pooh himself.

However, on a more critical note, the use of honey (or any homebrew ointment) for severe burns is blatant quackery. NEVER treat severe burns yourself. If you can get Brooke to use honey, I'll rethink my position.

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 7:50 PM

Probally had gotten contaminated with something such as water. Honey in its pure state is actually used as a type of perservative.

With some of it bateria inhibitors they are even looking at it to preserve milk

As far as the medical use of honey, one has to use your common sense, DO NOT by any means use honey from your pantry that is contaminated with bred crumbs, butter, peanut butter, or any other foods stuffs. Some medical applications are these

p911

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#41
In reply to #6

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 10:54 AM

Sugar itself has been use for centuries as a preservative. The bees themselves have added some thing extra. As far has the funky stuff that we see growing on top of jams and honey is due to condensation on the surface which has lowered the sugar content to allow something to grow

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#26
In reply to #1

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 12:55 AM

However, on a more critical note, the use of honey (or any homebrew ointment) for severe burns is blatant quackery. NEVER treat severe burns yourself.

Sentiment based upon ignorance duly noted.

Good info about homebrew burn ointment can be had asking an experienced hot-mop roofer. Honey is high on the treatment list due the incidence of infection.

Depending on severity on-site treatments include baking soda combined into a paste consistency with vasoline intensive care cream, oh yeah gets the heat out and no scars.

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#55
In reply to #1

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 9:24 PM

I've been following this thread with interest and amusement but, what is the Brooke reference about? Brooke who?

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#72
In reply to #1

Re: Medical use of honey

12/31/2009 10:53 PM

use of honey is no more quacky than use of leeches... just because the 'scientists' and 'medical professionals' of the last century couldn't (or wouldn't) demonstrate an empirical proof of the efficacy of these methods does not rule out the possibility that there were sound medical benefits... they were after all ignorant men with crude tools... we're still pretty ignorant but our tools aren't so crude anymore so be careful when you make such bold absolutest statements, they may come back to bite you.

In fact raw (unpasteurized) honey is a powerful preservative with anti-bacterial, anti-viral, anti-fungal and many other properties making it well suited for use as a first aid agent especially for injuries like burns where the skin is damaged and rendered ineffective as an infection barrier. While you are correct, severe burns should receive immediate professional medical attention it is not always available and having an alternate recourse to protect the damaged skin from infection while you await professional medical attention could save your life. Even with professional help it may be wise to consider using honey and/or honey products to aid healing as some research indicates honey may be more effective at preventing infection from drug resistant microbes than the strongest antibiotics and with none of the horrible side effects that swallowing poison tablets four times a day will have on your body.

Honey has been used in medical applications for thousands of years. It is mentioned in the Qu'ran, the Torah, the New Testament and various other ancient texts for both it's nutritive and medicinal properties; modern research is bearing out the proof of these traditions.

Pure honey is hygroscopic and is the only naturally occurring sugar that does not putrify... until you dilute it, then it will rot like anything else, of course. I wish I had my source book for this info handy, I would give you such a diatribe... lacking my chosen source for this info here are some web links:

BBC November 2002, BBC June 8, 2004

MSNBC December 2007

Research in Wales

Bastyr Center

US National Library of Medicine and NIH

Wikipedia

Ancient people knew things we can't fathom, because they used 'non-scientific language' and described things as being caused by 'evil spirits' instead of 'microbes' their knowledge gets dismissed out of hand by egotistical researchers who assume that they know better because their words have greek or latin roots. Pure, shameless ignorance with a heavy dose of superiority complex... Ahhh progress...

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#74
In reply to #72

Re: Medical use of honey

12/31/2009 11:07 PM

Ancient people knew things we can't fathom, because they used 'non-scientific language' and described things as being caused by 'evil spirits' instead of 'microbes' their knowledge gets dismissed out of hand by egotistical researchers who assume that they know better because their words have greek or latin roots.

Problem is, a lot of this knowledge is lost.

One thing I always felt is that its better to be exposed to risk of infections and bacteria, to be able for the body to build up resistance and strengthen its own defense mechanisms within reason.

And the people that believe the answer should come from a sterile bottle or environment are actually the people more at risk.

p911

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#77
In reply to #74

Re: Medical use of honey

12/31/2009 11:21 PM

You just made me so happy, I agree with you entirely!

I have a friend who is sick about a dozen times a year, he is a chronic health freak. For example, because the MythBusters informed him that 'poo germs' can pass through (I think it was 8 layers of) toilet paper he actually counts his tp layers... me, I drink from the glass of water thats been sitting on my desk for a week and I get sick maybe once or twice a year...

Our body's defense systems require experience in order to work and we are rapidly depriving them of anything to experience.

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#85
In reply to #74

Re: Medical use of honey

01/01/2010 6:25 AM
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#90
In reply to #85

Re: Medical use of honey

01/05/2010 10:21 PM

That was lovely... I love it when a lab somewhere proves the obvious despite an entire industry's attempts to convince the world otherwise...

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#133
In reply to #85

Re: Medical use of honey

01/12/2010 4:43 PM

Like dirt and mud pies etc. (children naturally picking their nose and eating it ~ seems gross), honey can contribute to sensitize/desensitize our immune/allergic system. I think you have a very good point. Also, a serious health problem evolved by parents etc. placing children on fat diets early in their childhood, this caused seizures due to the lack of appropriate development in the nervous system (mylination ~ insulation~ of nerves cells). Humans have evolved through thousands of years without the help of modern medicine (not to put down our health care ~ immunization shots etc.), but it is smart to consider natural foods (especially breast milk) and activities which have helped humans survive a long time.

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#135
In reply to #133

Re: Medical use of honey

01/12/2010 5:40 PM

Also, a serious health problem evolved by parents etc. placing children on fat diets early in their childhood, this caused seizures due to the lack of appropriate development in the nervous system

I have recently been told that many of the recent increases in diseases like diabetes and asthma are directly related to nutritive shortcomings during childhood development. This seems to make sense to me as these issues have been on the rise since the industrial revolution began. Generally I have heard it assumed that the key factor in this trend is pollution, but I suggest that there is another potential culprit. As people have become more and more part of the industrial machine we have given less and less time over to caring for ourselves. We have taken to eating more mass produced foodstuffs which contain ingredients most people don't have access to, let alone recipes for (even if they could pronounce it). Just because something is edible and has some nutritive properties does not make it food... you can eat dirt, and it is chock full of minerals, along with a fair selection of other dietary essentials... NOT FOOD.

There is definitely a need to more closely study the relationships between our childhood diet and our development; thanks for bringing it up.

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#136
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Re: Medical use of honey

01/12/2010 6:03 PM

You are very wise. Pollutants in our food are extremely dangerous but can be deactivated (oxidized) with natural foods which contain antioxidants...which brings us back to honey and fresh fruits etc. which we need to eat daily to keep the antioxidants in our blood to neutralize these free radicals before they can react with our tissues.

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#84
In reply to #72

Re: Medical use of honey

01/01/2010 5:51 AM

And has anyone noticed that when holistic cures are mentioned, which do work, that the language changes.

Fine print: ( patent medicine) MAY help with the symptoms of..............

Honey: CURES ( the complaint). Although it is unlawfull to use the work "cure" in this context. "100% better" has been adopted as the prefferred statemant.

Good to see that most of us are singing from the same sheet.

The bastards haven't won yet.

Cheers,

Stu.

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#89
In reply to #84

Re: Medical use of honey

01/05/2010 10:17 PM

The language changes in many ways. My wife is currently training to 'practice' alternative medicine, of course if she says what she is doing is 'medical' she could get sued and fined for misrepresentation.

She can't refer to the people who come to her for aid as 'patients' they are clients

Technically the only thing she is legally allowed to do is 'provide educational advice' If she tries to cure one of her 'clients' once again welcome to the land of lawsuits and fines.

The biggest thing I've learned from listening in on her lessons is that Western scientists can't fathom that someone who has never seen a microscope or a hospital might not use words like bacteria or infarction; since they don't know these words the highly esteemed Western scientists immediately assume they don't know anything at all and promptly stick their fingers in their ears and start chanting something akin to 'la-la-lala-la stupid loincloth wearing barbarians don't have useful knowledge'

If you want to see just how close the 'bastards' are to winning start looking into Codex Alimentarius... We're going to be eating soylent green sooner than you think.

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#125
In reply to #1

Re: Medical use of honey

01/11/2010 8:17 PM

I'm of the opinion that if you set up two hospitals, one practicing today's concensus medicine (pharmaceutical based, hyper expensive, profit driven, insurance controlled, etc, symptom obsessed..etc.), and the other hospital filled with all manner of QUACKS... I bet the Quacks could perform just as well if not better in healing the sick, and especially reducing the overall demand for health care through improved efficiency and better healing.

I'm not dissing science.. I just think that the practice of medicine has mostly lost its way, and is detrimentally controlled by the humongous parasitic tarantula of FDA/Big Pharma/Health Insurance... The focus is no longer on healing.. that narrows the customer pool, and reduces profits.

There are lots of solutions.. but nobody is listening.

Chris

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#126
In reply to #125

Re: Medical use of honey

01/11/2010 10:15 PM

Sorta with you here Chris. A couple of my family, as well as some acquaintances have over the past few years be in hospital for what are normally routine ops, such as joint replacements, ie hips, knees, elbows. In every case the ops resulted in the contracting of major infections of 'staf'. 6 out of 6. In the case of the most recent one, an uncle, I said to him that it would be the case , before he was admitted, adding that I was convinced that I could do the op. in an open paddock with a penknife and no infection would ensue. Of course this is a dramatic oversimplification of the event, however the point is, if you want to die from a simple proceedure, go to a large mainstream hospital. My father had a friend, Edward 'Weary"Dunlop, who performed major ops on POW's in Changi and the Burma-Siam railroad during the war, with sharpened tin and old razor blades, and damn-all anaesthetics or disinfectants, and he didn't have the trouble we have in modern facillities. No bullshit! Google him. He was an enormous human being. Back to the point: I'll trust alternative proven medicine anyday, over the dollar driven mainstream 'Hippocratic' system. It's morphed into a monster over the last half century, mainly by the effects of being able to patent medicinal substances. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Sorry for the rant , guys. It just makes my blood boil when I think of the people I lost to the 'medical system' Cheers, Stu.

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#127
In reply to #125

Re: Medical use of honey

01/12/2010 3:15 AM

"There are lots of solutions.. but nobody is listening."

Hi Chris,

the situation is worse than this!: Nobody is allowed to listen and to act!

I tried to do a private trial with a non-proven stuff that has anti-cancer capability.

This is working in late-stage "hopeless" situations where there is a mean chance of below 1:30000 of spontaneous remission.

As long as it is a "chemical" material, nearly everybody is allowed to handle it.

But as soon as it is a "pharmaceutical" material then only pharmacists or medical doctors are allowed to do this.

And as these do not want to be banned from any professional activity nobody ever will touch a non-FDA approved material. (FDA is equivalent to nearly any country's authority, seems to be better nowhere.)

So as soon as the patent coverage on (not only this ) material will expire none of the big players has any more any interest. They would not make money out of this.

So they will search if there is a way to circumvent the patent claims by "inventing" a new molecule that nobody would use if not especially for circumventing patent-claims.

Then they will patent once more the now modified stuff, have it tested if they are convinced that it is worth-while and gain a lot of profit if successful.

On the other hand they have to act like this as the approval will cost (stage 1 to 3) near 200 M$.

This is an acceptable system for every-days non-necessary medications.

But this system is murdering a lot of finally ill patients that do not get their last chance because it is not proven that there are no severe or light side effects.

If I am going to die within estimated 6 months because of cancer then I don't care if the last chance may kill me with a probability of 1%.

Same with the last scandal about "Sinerem" - ultra-small magnetic particle imaging, capable of detecting suspected lymph-nodes (especially in prostate-cancer), that did not get approval neither by US nor by EC authorities. More testing is required so the producing company will discontinue deliveries for testing purposes and never more come back to this.

This detection is capable to detect cancerous lymph nodes as small as 2 mm, the established Technetium-Scintigraphy has its limit near 8 to 10mm. So this is a factor of 60 to 130 in volume - and later diagnosis will have more non-localised illnesses and thus kill many of the patients.

This is murder by official politics: nobody shall have any harm from approved medical stuff.

(Vernunft wird Wahnsinn, Wohltat wird Plage) a famous citation from one of the German famous writers.

Freely translated this means: Reasonable and senseful guidelines (for FDA...) are developing into madness and good deeds into menaces.

Today no way to bring the approving agencies down to rational work again?

No real thinking there but only looking at may be scandals?

Don't cure the ill but prevent trouble for our authority?

The very best to you for the New Year 2010!

RHABE

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#145
In reply to #127

Re: Medical use of honey

01/15/2010 4:38 PM

The patent scene is the downfall of medicine.

The rejection rate for drugs that get to clinical trials is at least 85% (that's in a good year!). The pre-screening process is no good! A lot of those failures are because the drugs cause unacceptable levels of liver damage. Back to the chemical drawing board... for a fresh patented item.

No wonder they're so jealous about natural products.

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#129
In reply to #125

Re: Medical use of honey

01/12/2010 10:54 AM

we need to add an extra tier to our health network. before you go see your doctor and waste his valuable training with your minor ailment go see someone whose training is more appropriate to your need. Caring for your body does not mean swallowing a pill. There are many highly trained individuals out there with phenomenal medical skills who are definitely not covered by your insurance and who could probably solve most of your problems without drugs (which cause most of your problems... nice catch 22 there); they aren't called doctors they get names like 'new-age' or 'witch doctor' or 'quack'... They deal with the things would should be doing to care for ourselves before we need splints shunts pills MRI's shots ....

How many of you know some dingbat with a doctoral degree in engineering that couldn't find their way around a screwdriver? It's the same in the medical profession; a degree is no indication of competency, yet we flock to that little piece of paper on the wall as though it held the very essence of salvation. We practically worship that purveyor of magic beans and hang on his words as though they came from the mouth of God because of that paper... sounds like a false icon to me.

Judge your doctor harshly, doubt their ability and question everything they say to you: seek alternate opinions. Not because they are bad people, most of them are genuinely caring and deserve your appreciation, but because a doctor is only human and your health is on the line not their's. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN WELL BEING even when you pass that responsibility to another.

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#130
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Re: Medical use of honey

01/12/2010 3:09 PM

GA from me. Stu.

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#131
In reply to #129

Re: Medical use of honey

01/12/2010 3:47 PM

There are some medical doctors (especially Osteopathetic ) that prescribe honey (and many common sense nutritional and practical remedies) for some ailments, and I believe their actions are based on scientific (strong emperical) data. I agree with some of your comments and certainly some of our health services need fine tuning at the least. However, our doctors (medical and engineering) are smart and well educated. The problem seems to be outside influence, and we all know they appear to be more interested in money as apposed to public health.

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#134
In reply to #131

Re: Medical use of honey

01/12/2010 5:20 PM

It was not my intention to besmirch our medical professionals, my primary care physician is an Osteopath and I am grateful for him. I do believe that their training and knowledge is a valuable resource; no one is better at diagnostics and trauma treatment than a modern western trained physician. Unforunately their approach is frequently more focused on alleviating symptoms than figuring out what triggered the problem (this is our fault, not their's). Alternative practitioners typically spend more time with their 'patients' and look more for the root cause of a symptom than for a 'cure' for the symptom. These differences are primarily driven by the people who choose between the methods, the current trend in our society is to alleviate the symptom and forget about the cause, doctors give the people what they want... to feel better now with as little personal effort as possible.

Closer to my point is that you don't need to go see an MD because you have a touch of dermititus... unless you've already seen a nutritionist or an herbalist or a TCM practitioner (or spoken to your pharmacist for that matter)... and still have not received an effective treatment. It doesn't take a Ph.D. in internal medicine to suggest a topical cream or change in diet. Having said that, all cases are different and once again I emphatically state "no one is responsible for your well-being but you"; always use your best judgement and question the things that ANY health care providers say to you (regardless of their background and methods).

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#2

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 6:10 PM

It doesn't go bad, it reverts back to sugar. As I recall, if you heat it up again it liquefies. Or, is it re-liquefies?

A chemist from OK doesn't know this?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 6:18 PM

Do a little experiment for me. Put two teaspoons of sugar and two teaspoons of hot water in your coffee cup. Set it aside for a month. Then make tea in that cup (without examining the cup) and take a deep gulp. Write and let us know what it tasted like, and no you can't use that word in front of people in their second childhood.

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#4
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Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 6:30 PM

I don't drink tea.

Anyway, I'm thinking of a container of honey, not a spoonful left out.

And I would never consider honey as a topical medicine. I'd think you'd have a terrible ant problem.

Might have a little with whiskey to treat a cold. I get a lotta colds.

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#8
In reply to #4

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 8:34 PM

Yeah, I use beer (tastes better) for medicinal purposes; er... seems to take a lot for it to take effect though.

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#17
In reply to #8

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 11:32 PM

I've discovered a beer called Honey Brown which has been effective in inhibiting the onset of the common cold. Or, maybe it just inhibits my recognizing the onset of the common cold. Medically, does it matter?

I'm bad.

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#22
In reply to #17

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 12:01 AM

Long ago and far away a beer called mead was made from honey.

It was well known for curing ills, the story goes that traditionally a Babylonian father-in-law would provide the groom mead (beer) for a month following the wedding hence the "honey moon"

more about mead http://www.medovina.com/history.htm

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 7:20 PM

"... two teaspoons of sugar and two teaspoons of hot water ..."

What's this got to do with honey?

The only honey I've known go 'bad' was contaminated by toast crumbs & butter (from the knife that Small used, instead of using a clean spoon (or ) to get the honey from the jar to the toast).

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#7
In reply to #3

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 7:51 PM

You just made a culture to grow bateria........btw, whats that have to do with honey?

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#33
In reply to #3

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 8:09 AM

Whoa there.

Sugar (supposedly cane) and water do not honey make.

There is in existence, honey that's over 2000 years old, and the bodies preserved in it.

My family has been using honey (pure) as a salve for over a hundred years. Certainly does speed up the healing process and is indeed an antibiotic and antiseptic medium.

Personal experience.

The sugars eventually crystallise in the liquid, but reversal is merely to gently heat it. Microwave works a treat if you're careful. Pure honey DOESN'T go 'off'.

Thought you'd like to know.

Cheers,

Stu

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#35
In reply to #33

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 8:41 AM

No, no, no. I didn't say water and sugar make honey. LynLynch was needling me a little bit about "bad" honey being only the sugar separating out and I was making a "funny" back at him. Read the exchange.

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 8:41 PM

Fresh honey contains less than 1.3% table sugar (sucrose), and bees make it primarily from monosaccharides: fructose, maltose, glucose. It also contains numerous other ingredients including several antioxidants and possible bacterial spores.

The research mentioned in the IP was performed in a burn center by professionals with significant controls, success, and recorded data. The research was presented at the Integris Hospital in Oklahoma City with positive reviews. The concept is still in the hypothetical stage, and I never stated anyone should use it without consulting a physician. In fact, it is common knowledge that it can be very dangerous for infants, especially if consumed.

Honey has a very long shelf life, but it will ferment into alcohol then oxidize into acetic acid if left open to the air. Please critique the message not the messenger. Your comments might deter some people from using this site. There was a tribe of Indians who use to eat tree bark for headaches and inflamation, and some people called them stupid. It was later determined that the bark contained aspirin.

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#67
In reply to #9

Re: Medical use of honey

12/31/2009 2:03 PM

Due to the fructose and sucrose contents of honey small crystals forms when honey gets cold and starts to "join" together to crystallize. The lighter the honey, the higher the fructose contents therefore the quicker the honey will crystallize. Simply place honey in warm water that is uncomfortable to the hand and crystals will melt and honey will return to its natural liquid state. Putting honey in microwave will only result in high levels of radiation that will kill all the vitamins and minerals.

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#132
In reply to #67

Re: Medical use of honey

01/12/2010 4:10 PM

Good point about heating honey or bwire. However, I believe you meant to imply that antioxidants and/or vitamins will be denatured not "killed" (minerals are usually not affected). That is why raw not processed honey should be used.

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#137
In reply to #132

Re: Medical use of honey

01/12/2010 8:04 PM

Yeper minerals are only are effected when heated above 60°C

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#102
In reply to #9

Re: Medical use of honey

01/06/2010 4:19 PM

Is honey dangerous for infants? I don't think you are correct, and it contradicts what I know of common knowledge. Honey has been used to care for sick babies for generations and maybe millenia - and the recent pediatric research certainly supports it as an alternative to OTC cough syrups for children.

My mother, who grew up in northern outports without running water, electricity, or medical doctors (for the most part) remembers well that they kept a small jar of honey in the house especially to care for babies. Honey was hard to come by in those days, but they had a little which was treasured and reserved - only for infants!

Can you tell me where the contrary idea comes from? Thanks!

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#103
In reply to #102

Re: Medical use of honey

01/06/2010 5:07 PM

There is one reason why honey is pasteurized. It can preserve and nourish anaerobic bacteria, the chief one of these is the bacteria that cause botulism. These bacteria excrete a very toxic metabolite, botulin. There are several links on the first page that give details

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&q=botulism+%2Bhoney&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=botulism+%2Bhoney&fp=6cba57aadad89720

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#105
In reply to #103

Re: Medical use of honey

01/06/2010 5:37 PM

aaah! gotcha. Thank you. I know about botulism but didn't know you could get it from honey! I hope it's rare...

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#108
In reply to #105

Re: Medical use of honey

01/06/2010 6:05 PM

Quite the contrary, botulinum are so common you're probably covered in them. It is commonly found in the soil and in natural sweetners (from what I've been reading honey more than most apparently). The high sugar content of the honey prevents the bacteria from growing, and the acid content of your stomach takes over repressing the little buggers when they get there... Basically the spores just go along for the ride and don't come out to play until you bid them farewell.

They are basically harmless unless in high concentration.

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#106
In reply to #103

Re: Medical use of honey

01/06/2010 5:39 PM

According to the article pasteurization is used to prolong the product but the temperatures used in pasteurization are not high enough to kill the botulism spores??

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/iyh-vsv/diseases-maladies/botu-eng.php - sorry, link no longer available

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#109
In reply to #106

Re: Medical use of honey

01/06/2010 6:18 PM

The honey is pasteurized because people are dumb. I believe in many places it is legally required and most people don't know anything about pasteurization except that it makes food "safe to eat"... or so they think.

I think this whole pasteurization thing needs to get the same critical attention that antibiotics have been getting in regards to the negative unforeseen side-effects... over use of antibiotics has led to so called 'super bugs' and in my opinion over pasteurization is slamming the other end of the pendulum by killing off the good bugs we need... any that survived the liberal use of antibiotic soaps that are also becoming commonplace that is. We are destroying our ability to fend for ourselves without resorting to chemistry; our immune system is like a muscle, we tell it to drink a coke, eat a ding dong and go sit in the corner watching TV until we need it and then we wonder why it's atrophied.

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#107
In reply to #102

Re: Medical use of honey

01/06/2010 5:58 PM

Honey is definitely contra-indicated for infants under 1 year. There is a risk of botulism as honey makes good fly paper for spores. Botulinum spores can also be found in other natural sweetners like maple or corn syrup but honey seems to gather more than these others. Botulinum spores are exceedingly common and pose almost no risk to adults unless encountered in high concentration but the infant digestive and imune systems may not be vigorous enough to kill it, leading to infant botulism and potentially death.

The botulinum don't form a culture in the honey because they are inhibited by the high sugar levels and other factors in the honey, however once diluted (e.g. by weak infantile digestive juices) the bacteria go about doing their colonization thing.

Boiling doesn't kill the spores, in fact they're near impossible to kill using ordinary methods. Once a child is eating solid food they should produce enough acid in their stomach to prevent the bacteria from growing and should therefore be able to safely consume honey without fear just like the rest of us.

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#138
In reply to #102

Re: Medical use of honey

01/12/2010 9:07 PM

Read #39 artsmith...You are usually on target, but the statement I made is well supported in professional fields and is common knowledge (especially with moms). Up to a certain age, babies should not be given honey; it is dangerous to state otherwise. When their digestive tract is fully developed, honey may be given for medicinal purposes. Newborns (and especially neonates) are born with incomplete digestive, nervous, and respiratory tracts. The concept that ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny supports this belief, and there have been documented cases where babies have become ill (and sometimes died) from botulism after being fed honey(which can contain botulism spores).

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#140
In reply to #138

Re: Medical use of honey

01/13/2010 3:02 AM

Correct.

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#144
In reply to #138

Re: Medical use of honey

01/15/2010 4:18 PM

yes, aurizon straightened me out, and now I've read about it. Thanks.

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#121
In reply to #2

Re: Medical use of honey

01/08/2010 10:11 PM

Honey is sugar?

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#123
In reply to #121

Re: Medical use of honey

01/08/2010 10:25 PM

Honey is composed of assorted monosaccharide sugars, mainly glucose and fructose. Sucrose, or table sugar, from sugar cane or beets, is a disaccharide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar

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#10

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 9:00 PM

My sugar comment was a riposte to LynLynch and should have been off-topic. Sorry. However, I'll stand by my comment about putting any homebrew ointment on a severe burn which is that I'll believe it when I see Brooke do it. In the meantime, who the heck here has an MD?

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 10:50 PM

I had to look riposte up. Thanks for making me learn a new word.

I'm at a loss to understand where this is going and why it started, except to expound the merits of honey.

Cheers.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 11:11 PM

I have heared that honey does work well for burns & minor cuts, but never thought about using it. I am too use to Neosporan or the thriple antibodic ointment... & a band aid...

As for hony going bad, you should talk to a bee keeper. If I remember, if the jar is kept tightly sealed it will not go bad & has a long shelf life. If air is let in like the squeezible bears, it wil turn to hard sugar state. It can be heated & it will turn back to a liquid.

Why don't you stay on topic, than try to show everyone how smart you are by putting them down. WE don't care!

My grandfather always said, 'It is better to be thought stupid, than to speak up & remove all doubt."

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 11:18 PM

Thanks for the constructive criticism. I think your grandfather was a wise man.

Heed his words!

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 11:31 PM

unpasteurized honey might contain some antibiotic proteins evolved by bees to kill bacteria and molds in the stored honey. These might well be capable antibiotics and of a type that could be hard for the bacteria to evolve an immunity to, the bees many millions of years of evolution selecting for these.It also presents an osmotic barrier to any membrane based bacterial life. It will also have been made pathogen free by the bees collection, partial digestion and concentration process. Only bacteria not harmful to bees will endure.

So honey needs to be screened for antibiotic activity and any such concentrated and fractionated and classified. At this time, they might be amenable to synthesis and improvement. There might be some originals in there. In fact, I cannot imagine that big Pharma has not tried this.

Lets see. Quite a lot, but it seems mainly quackery, might be some meat in the hamburger

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=honey+%2B%22naturally+occurring%22+%2Bantibiotic&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&oq=honey+%2B%22naturally+occurring%22+%2Bantibiotic&fp=cbc2f75bf9d43a8f

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#31
In reply to #11

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 7:18 AM

That was just an off-hand comment about the separation of the honey into sugar and ? I cook with honey all the time; it's great for not resisting bacterial growth, but some mold loves it. Let it separate, hit the air a little and you can get this wonderful black furry yeecch. I doubt that's harmful - most mold isn't - but still...

As to where the thread is going, let's say I'm old and been to a few county fairs and don't believe all I hear and see.

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#45
In reply to #31

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 12:24 PM

Honey was used as a wound sealant / antibiotic by Egyptians. The use of honey in medicine is listed in artifacts & drawings from Imhotep (the "father of medicine" before Hippocrates).

As far as mold growth. . .I actually had a jar of honey grow mold. I asked a good friend of mine who is a biologist informed me that it was possible for honey to grow mold in spite of honey's high sugar content. It takes a long time for mold to grow - don't get me wrong. The honey was stored in plastic with a snap on lid so it was open to intrusion by air and microbes in air. But, the mold grew on top of the honey (not on the bottle). When I googled "honey AND mold" the articles listed basically said that mold on honey is mostly harmless. Allergies to mold, on the other hand, would make any mold potentially dangerous.

Drew

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#49
In reply to #45

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 1:34 PM

Very informative. Thanks

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#73
In reply to #45

Re: Medical use of honey

12/31/2009 11:02 PM

Honey was used as a wound sealant / antibiotic by Egyptians.

More likely the substance in question was propolis, another bee product, which has been documented as being used by the Roman Legion as a sort of liquid bandage. As I understand it, it works better than the super glue/liquid bandage products currently available because it allows oxygen to pass through thus keeping the tissues involved healthier and more able to heal...

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#75
In reply to #73

Re: Medical use of honey

12/31/2009 11:14 PM

Very informative ~ Thanks ~ Is propolis used to seal the cones?

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#79
In reply to #75

Re: Medical use of honey

12/31/2009 11:34 PM

Propolis is a product bees make from sap and other tarry plant materials, it is used as a sort of construction adhesive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propolis

Other bee products to be aware of are:

Royal Jelly: nutritive and medicinally active 'bee food'

Bee Pollen: Be pollen is a whole food, bee pollen and water can sustain you indefinitely with no mal-nutrition issues, it has everything you need.

Most of my knowledge on the subject comes from the chapter on honey in Stephen Buhner's 'Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers' though I have cross-referenced most of it at one time or another.

While we're talking about it, everyone on earth needs to be aware that the bees are disappearing and without them we may likely not be far behind on the extinction express. Do whatever you can to support bee research in your area, even if it's just buying a jar of real honey once in a while. And try not to spray poisonous chemicals on everything.

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#128
In reply to #45

Re: Medical use of honey

01/12/2010 5:07 AM

Thanks for this great information! "Honey is considered the food of foods, the drink of drinks and the drug of drugs. It is used for creating appetite, strengthening the stomach and eliminating phlegm, as a meat preservative, hair conditioner, eye salve, and mouthwash. The best best honey is that produced in the spring, the second best is that of summer, and the least quality is produced in winter." The Book of Sufi Healing. Shaykh Moinuddin Chishti We use honey for cough and weak lungs, we put lemon on pure honey. It's proven effective, my family is a loyal user of honey. :)

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#101
In reply to #31

Re: Medical use of honey

01/06/2010 4:10 PM

ahoy there,

just catching up on this thread and I notice "I doubt that's harmful - most mold isn't -"

just a cautionary note, that's really a dangerous assumption. molds can be quite toxic, very toxic, even fatal. If the honey is gettin furry, ditch it and be on the safe side.

cheers,

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#71
In reply to #11

Re: Medical use of honey

12/31/2009 9:32 PM

What's your problem mate?

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#19
In reply to #10

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 11:40 PM

The shelf life of honey is quite long, and there are medicinal benefits of honey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey

http://www.benefits-of-honey.com/honey-facts.html

I'll stand by my comment about putting any homebrew ointment on a severe burn which is that I'll believe it when I see Brooke do it.

Yes you are entitled to your opinion, one thing you have to realize is that as I see it, you are more comfortable to put something out of a bottle or tube that to use this homemade brew.

You do have to realize, how does Pfizer or Eli Lilly develop drugs and ointments. They actually look towards nature and these as you call it home brews. and study them to develop and synthesis the very same proteins.

There is a concerted effort like a race on the rain forest to discover natural cures so they can syntheis them before its too late.

Your comment; who the heck here has an MD? So far, no one, its all opinion so far.

Honey does have benefits, On a personal observation, My Dad who is 85 years old, had joint problems about 4 years back, aches, stiffness...... that was disabling him, he changed his diet from replacing process sugar to honey, the change was either a miracle or the benefits of honey.

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#50
In reply to #19

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 1:40 PM

Honey is prescribed by some physicians for stomach ulcers and skin allergies.

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#34
In reply to #10

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 8:24 AM

Not a week goes by when we learn about some traditional cure (non Big Pharma) working at least as well, sometimes better than patent medicines.

I'll use them everytime over doubtfull medicines thrust upon an unsuspecting and ill-informed populace by the Big Bucks end of town.

The medical (sickness) industry is locked into making lots of money, not neccessarily curing illness. You get better and they lose a customer. They DON"T want that.

Generalisations I know, but the considered, committed views of one who has gotten out the 'mess', and attained good health.

MD? Half of my family!

Stu.

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#122
In reply to #10

Re: Medical use of honey

01/08/2010 10:16 PM

Based on what?

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#124
In reply to #122

Re: Medical use of honey

01/09/2010 8:49 AM

What based on what? I'll be glad to answer, but what shall I answer?

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#14

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 11:26 PM

Honey has been used in this manner for eons, it's encouraging the professional medical establishment has taken note of that.

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#15

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 11:30 PM

While traveling I met a bioligist in Montana at breakfast one morning, he said he was working in a greenhouse nearby and at some time before had hauled honey from Montana to Los Angeles. He explained how honey could be used for healing wounds that nothing else would heal. I have also seen an article where at the University of Wisconsin someone applied honey to an infection that would not heal.

The doc at the local clinic had me using triple-antibiotic cream on what was probably a spider bite, located between my two fingers. I got the bite on Monday in Washington DC, by noon it was itching, the skin peeled off the spreading wound which had a black ring around it and there was a pit of mush flesh, by Friday when I got back to the local doc in Wisconsin my hand was swelling and turning color. The doc gave me a prescription for antibiotics to prevent blood poisoning and said to use the triple-antibiotic cream on the bite area which was about 1/4 inch across and 1/8 inch deep. I used the cream for about 10 days as the hole got bigger.

Then I started putting honey on the band aid and over the wound, the wound started to shrink, I changed band-aids with honey about 3 times a day. and I can't see a scar anymore where the bite was.

I also had another skin eruption by my shirt collar on the back of my neck, treated it the same way, doc said it might have been an infected pore ? It was also about 3/8 inch across the hole.

I've started taking pictures of these infections as this is something new for me.

Some honeys are pasteurized. I know I used local honey from the grocery store, but don't know if it was pasteurized.

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#83
In reply to #15

Re: Medical use of honey

01/01/2010 5:34 AM

Pasteurized?

If it's store bought it has to be.

Better to get your honey straight from the apiarist. One who doesn't use high heat to separate out the comb (wax). My guy uses a centrifuge to separate it out.

The more we 'genius' humans mess with stuff, the less effective it becomes. Usually steered by some idiot bureaucrat, wanting to become famous for doing something.

Applies to most things, really.

Nature gives us the right elements and 'we' think we can make them better by messing with them.

Theraputic uses of honey began with the ancients, and then became the stuff of lore. Good, effective, cheap.

I guess the rest is obvious.........

Cheers,

Stu

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#18

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 11:38 PM

Isn't honey just a sweet way to say bee vomit?

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#24
In reply to #18

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 12:11 AM

The bioligist said it was "digested" or similar, and that was made it unique.

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#43
In reply to #18

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 11:29 AM

PlbMak's dog might take offence at that.

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#94
In reply to #18

Re: Medical use of honey

01/06/2010 8:50 AM

Nope!

S.

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#20

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 11:47 PM

I've used honey(real, and not all "honey" is 100%) as a topical antibiotic for many years with success. It is an ancient folk remedy. Also, I've never seen an uncontaminated jar of honey go bad. On that I note I have a 10 year experiment with a tub of "Country Crock" butter-like substance where it has sat in the fridge without any apparent change. No mold, nothing seems to want to eat it... and I wouldn't use it as an antibiotic, but maybe it should be looked into as a remedy.

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Medical use of honey

12/29/2009 11:52 PM

On that I note I have a 10 year experiment with a tub of "Country Crock" butter-like substance where it has sat in the fridge without any apparent change.

I believe that is a form of plastic

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#23
In reply to #21

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 12:09 AM

May be better for artificial boobs (any type).

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#25

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 12:23 AM

I have been using unprocessed honey for decades to heal even deep cuts that a GP would stitch up. It heals without scars. I keep a bottle separate for this. It is easy in India as there are many agencies that sell honey collected by tribals from the hives in forests.

In fact, only a couple of weeks I managed to cut myself deeply while pruning a recalcitrant branch using a hand saw. A GP would have taken at least two to three stitches. Honey coagulated the bleeding and it has healed perfectly.

Burns are a different matter because of larger area for bacterial ingress. I have no experience with honey for burns.

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#28
In reply to #25

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 2:10 AM

Ayurveda developed many centuries ago in India, must be read by all the respondatnts to understand what we have in nature and how it helps us in more simple way to teat anything ,with hardly any side effects.

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#27

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 1:59 AM

i'm not certain of a shelflife for honey, but i do remember reading that honey was found in an ancient Egyptian pyramid burial site that had not yet gone bad. ____________________ Benbenben

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#29

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 2:23 AM

What is the scourge of elderly people?- leg ulcers!- can happen to anyone over say 50- ANY skin breakage on the lower legs- if left unattended- WILL let common bacteria on the skin enter into the beneath- once in these @#$%^ multiply like crazy- they actually EAT the flesh- & it is God's own devil of a job to rid of them!. Conventional treatment, which can take 12 months or more, means cleaning the wound with saline, then bandaging with a dry pad- then repeating in 3-4 days, & taking antibiotics if area swollen. Now for honey to work it HAS to be natural unprocessed unheated- the stuff you buy in supermarket WILL NOT work- it has been heated, blended & God knows what else- which destroys the enzymes responsible for healing. Have NO doubt about this- natural honey WILL heal wounds incl leg ulcers TWICE as quickly as standard treatment- I proved this myself. Now once obtaining natural honey that works- over time it will candy- this will still work as well _DON'T heat in attempt to liquify- just don't work no more!-(sure , can still use it as food whatever!). A further BAD effect of degraded honey is the stuff will actually help the bacteria multiply & cause further outbreaks of skin lesions!!. God help us!!- now as to the other scourge of elderly males-PROSTATE!!!- honey in diet can help somewhat.

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#30

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 3:54 AM

The San people also known as the Bushmen of Southern Africa are as far as I know, the oldest peoples on earth, and they have been collecting honey and using it to treat all manor of ailments for eons. These include arthritis, burns, sunburn, dehydration, insect bites, cuts, deep infections from bites of lion, hyena, jackal. Honey is held right up there with the value of water, and these guys live in of the harshest deserts in the world, the Namib and Kalahari. They use ostrich egg shells and calabashes to store it in for years.

But don't take the San seriously, after all they still run around in the bush in skins and live happy contented lives without any western rubbish.

Just keep honey away from supply-chains that dilute it with syrup and water and who knows what else, and honey will be just fine for years to come, that is if we don't wipe out the bees.....half way there already

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#32

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 7:32 AM

Well, I may be wrong (or ignorant as some idiot guest suggested) about the benefits of honey. It turns out there is a lot of it offered for sale for this purpose. There's a site run by a J.C. Moore that offers what must be a dozen or more varieties. I'll continue cooking with it, but I'll pass on the ointment.

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#38
In reply to #32

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 9:55 AM

Can we stop the personal attacks, and concentrate on the topic. Concepts are placed on this site for discussion to explore both positive and negative aspects. These personal attacks influence some people to stop giving their input and destroy the pleasure of collective discussion.

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#40
In reply to #38

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 10:32 AM

"Can we stop the personal attacks, and concentrate on the topic."

Here's the topic, as I see it, and as the question was posed by you:

Have you ever seen honey go bad?"

Bye Bye!

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#42
In reply to #40

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 11:16 AM

The topic was in reference to the medical use of honey. "Have you ever seen honey go bad?" was just a side comment not the main topic, and that statement has nothing to do with personal attacks.

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#36

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 8:53 AM

Any furthermore...since I'm already a moving target.

If honey is such a darn good antibiotic, why do beekeepers here in Pennsylvania have to give honeybees more antibiotics to combat foulbrood bacteria? Or, is it just us?

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#44
In reply to #36

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 12:16 PM

Yah I can't wait till you fall down. Then......

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#87
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Re: Medical use of honey

01/01/2010 1:55 PM
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#46
In reply to #36

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 12:55 PM

Commercially, bees are fed sugar syrup - besides being trucked around to monoculture fields that have been treated with herbicides and pesticides. Such practices leave them vulnerable.

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#47
In reply to #46

Re: Medical use of honey

12/30/2009 1:24 PM

Well, that would explain why the bees don't do well, but the bacteria is also found in the honey. That is, the honey apparently doesn't kill that bacteria. Or, are you saying the weakened bees produce honey that is a lower quality antibiotic? Do you keep bees?

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#56
In reply to #47

Re: Medical use of honey

12/31/2009 10:19 AM

It's an interesting question whether weakened bees produce honey with a lesser antibiotic capability. That sounds like a grad student research project.

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#57
In reply to #47

Re: Medical use of honey

12/31/2009 10:37 AM

Well, that would explain why the bees don't do well, but the bacteria is also found in the honey. That is, the honey apparently doesn't kill that bacteria.

Thats a pretty wide brush. there are different types of bacteria, some good and some bad with a wide range of resistance that goes with it.

And one should not label all bacteria strains as bad, without bacteria we would not survive.

Or, are you saying the weakened bees produce honey that is a lower quality antibiotic?

Thats an interesting question, along with is all honey the same or has the same qualities, such as honey that was produced from (majority) clover, as compared to other type of blossoms such as alfalfa.

Without taking pesticides nt teeuaton

p911

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#59
In reply to #57

Re: Medical use of honey

12/31/2009 11:27 AM

Like many of our foods, fresh honey usually contains bacteria spores which are contained by the antibiotics (very young children sometimes get botulism from the consumption of honey due to their premature establishment of a fauna and flora balance etc.). Does anyone know of a case where an adult illness was caused by spores in honey. Usually the friendly critters in our digestive track, the acid environment in our stomach, and our immune system handles them effectively if they hatch from the spore stage.

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#86
In reply to #36

Re: Medical use of honey

01/01/2010 1:49 PM

Considerations include the over use of chemicals in the residential venues that have combined to render the bee in state which their immune system is effectively diminished.

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#91
In reply to #36

Re: Medical use of honey

01/05/2010 10:33 PM

probably for much the same reason you don't get penicillin when you go to the doctor for an antibiotic any more... we've unintentionally engineered super-bugs in the hospital, why not everywhere else... not to mention the fact that we are chemically impacting every aspect of every organism on the planet with our diverse forms of chemical dumping... I'm sure you heard all those stories in the 80's and 90's about how insecticides were causing condor eggs to be perilously thin thus aiding the near extinction of the species... This is certainly not the only example of our impact on the health of the life forms around us and though I can't point to a specific cause to denounce your contestation I know that the likelihood of our culpibility is too high to ignore.

I can accept your unwillingness to get onboard the natural cures boat, but this argument is specious at best. Please work a little harder to prove we believers in the bee to be a bunch of crackpots.

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#93
In reply to #91

Re: Medical use of honey

01/06/2010 7:24 AM

Fer gawdsakes. I didn't really say you guys are crackpots. I said you shouldn't put honey on severe burns. If you want to put honey on an ulcer, I'm OK with that. If you want to put honey on a first or second degree burn, I'm OK with that. But, don't put ointments on third degree burns; the folks at the trauma center are gonna cause you to scream for Jesus when they have to scrape it back off.

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#99
In reply to #93

Re: Medical use of honey

01/06/2010 3:23 PM

They cause you to scream for Jesus anyway

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#104
In reply to #93

Re: Medical use of honey

01/06/2010 5:31 PM

Well, alright, I suppose that's reasonable... Third degree burns are a special case, the properties in the honey would still help you prevent infection and would in that case be extra beneficial since the primary infection barrier will have been burned away... except for the writhing agony part... hopefully they get to it while you're still in shock???

The only instance I can see where I would choose to use this treatment for 3rd degree burns is if proper care was days away and risk of infection outweighed better judgement... at that point I would have to determine that this treatment may be the only way to preserve the victims life long enough to get proper treatment. I did, of course, miss that day in med-school and would be counting on the good samaritan act to preserve my hiney... not a good place to be...

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