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spacecannon
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Shipping Container Housing

01/16/2010 12:05 PM

I have a civil engineer friend whoose dream it is to design and build shipping container housing for general use and for emergency use, like an instant city for Haiti. Im trying to motivate him to live his dream, so what does everyone think about container housing?

spacecannon

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cwarner7_11
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#1226
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/05/2010 8:04 PM

Maybe Blackwater would be BETTER than the Chinese...They get things done in spite of the rules...
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bwire
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/06/2010 12:21 AM

Barrett Moore is a better organizer

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Transcendian
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#1225
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/05/2010 7:59 PM

When I was Security for Rochdale College, that was a unique place with different laws from Toronto, or Canada, if not the rest of the world, we were hired by the college.

I was hired by the Vice President, who became President.

You do need to know what you are doing, and getting into when you are talking force and guns, and who has them for what.

According to Transcendian Theory, all citizens ought to be armed all the time with whatever is appropriate, or they are willing to handle.

It is a lot more work than many realize to carry a gun around all the time.

Likely as a basic policy, and typically more universally legal, would be that all working for us, or with us, in whatever organization, in different parts of the world, do carry Mace type, Pepper Spray sorts of weapons.

For nations it is very important that yours that are armed one way or another actually believe in your laws.

I worked with some dangerous people and one one turned to me and said, "We've been around long before you hippies."

Even now I am hesitant to name names on that story.

But lets say that I know some of the face, and causes of what is generally called corruption.

I'd be real damn careful about Security, and it is important when running Security for a Company or a Country, to know what you are doing.

Every company or organization needs what I call Daily Bread.

Ideally I want a Transcendian office in every airport. This is to support the Daily Bread that would come from the Transcendian Passport, which is a Service really.

The point is to facilitate international business, through Security for real travelers.

For the Steel Tent Company daily bread to support international offices would be based at the sea ports and for daily bread sell high end finished out conversions day in and day out.

When there was an emergency they would be able to marshall the needed unconverted for set down as Steel Tents, with no or little fuss about niceties.

As far as Security Forces for the Organization what you want is good relations all around.

For instance while I was working for an independent organization I had two choices, fight, get ahold of the guys on the force with some guns, or call the police.

I did all three options, fist fight, go looking for my guys, or call the police.

Though there is some remnant of Rochdale College, its glory is gone.

The role that the corruption of the Security Force had in that is profound, and one I have some ideas about how to avoid.

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Geoff Daly
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#1222
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/05/2010 6:56 PM

Chris,

So everyone is aware Anthony Madden of GlobalCon was at Clemson yesterday with Doug and Martha plus some students going over the visit on Monday in Haiti. Apparently no one from Clemson can go right now.

So as of now there are a group of 6 to 7 people going Monday 8th at the invite of the Haitian Government and they are meeting up with Doug Lowe from the Architure for Humanity group and the Zakat Foundation from Chicago (Eric Sczeal and an american Haitian Lady) and as a consortium/group have already presented a uniform front.

Plus a full strategized plan to mobilize a full group of people to travel to Haiti to work on providing immediate shelter using the current shipping containers there in Haiti.... has never been discussed by any of the NGO's, UN, IOM, USAID/FEMA....only tents and tarps plus some wood sheets and corrugated sheeting, never; what has been proposed by CR4 on our site, U of Clemson, Richard Martin, GlobalCon or even one or two faith based groups now in Haiti...shipping containers Hurraaaaa.

The Haitian Government have listened and see a planned effort by a consortium/group, who have a well thought out plan put together since Jan 14th. The list of peopel involved is extensive and Charlie Warner is on the Advisory group from CR4, all presented to the Government along with a list of very notable people plus a whole plethora of engineering people who can be called upon from many engineering discipline and especially CR4.

So again GUYS job well done and especially CW for assembling the threads.

By mid next week, hopefuuly, Anthony and the consortium/group should have some form of formal go-ahead from the Haitian Government and funding approved for the first series of communities.

One person who is going to be very invovled is an appointee from the Clinton era from USACE and to be announced the following week and many of the NGO's etc there will respond to him via the Haitian Governments, giving him overall command for the restoration as the Hurricane/Rainy season starts with a vengance (have had in excess of 72" in the last four weeks....8 people drowned over the weekend).

So for now there is a combined consortium/group working together with an equal game plan being presented on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Geoff Daly NH.

PS: yes, there have been big corps/business there over the past week...but all want to do it there way and not how the Haitian people feel is needed - jobs etc...even bringing in outside labor and skills, not using the Haitian people who can and do weld, fabricate, do carpentary, truck driving, heavy equip operation etc. (Richard Martin just had to show what he needed done and the Haitian people went to work and only asked for advice as felt was needed...he said great morale booster to all involved, not being told by the whiteman what to do and how, all the time)

Good job Guys.

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Geoff Daly
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#1227
In reply to #1222

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/05/2010 11:46 PM

Guys,

Look at this from the AP

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100305/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cb_haiti_earthquake

This is good news for the consortium/group going to Haiti for Monday.

An idea being planned is that everything will be transparent and ONLINE for everyone to see what is received, who is doing work, how much they are spending-being paid etc...no hiding, if anyone tries the Haitian Government will go after them...through the person who will be announced next week (very strong ethics and does not stand any BS from anyone under his command and does not stand for idiots or stupid people who should know better at what they do or are responsible for).....so some of you shoud be prepared if asked to go for awhile and put our ideas and postings into reality.

So they have some leverage going in Monday from this article alone.

Geoff Daly NH.

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bwire
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#1229
In reply to #1227

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/06/2010 12:36 AM

I think this morass is typical of the agencies involved and encourage you to turn your attention to Chile...

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#1230
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/06/2010 12:57 AM

Doesn't Taiwan trump Chile? It is the most recent...
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#1231
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/06/2010 1:20 AM

The magnitude of destruction an the huge difference of the coming winter in Chile would persuade me to think not...

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#1239
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/07/2010 7:34 PM

For those that have missed it, here is the JPHRO web site (initiated by Sean Penn and Diana Jenkins)(no I haven't contacted anyone there. )

Chris
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#1243
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/09/2010 3:41 PM

tried to send them a message. Didn't happen.

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#1244
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/09/2010 4:10 PM

Why is this off topic?? Of all the people helping the Haitians, these people seem to have some pretty good traction. If they can't help us directly, they are certainly an example of effectiveness in delivering aid and publicizing needs. If only we could do so well...

Chris
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CaptMoosie
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#1245
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/10/2010 8:27 AM

I read the additional 4 pages of the typical Madison Avenue marketing paperwork that was obtained from the Rahway NJ company & posted to my mailbox.

Information provided is not much different from what's of their website.....there's little solid technical information about the treatment trains, and zip-nadda about any INDEPENDENT laboratory testing results. Especially tight-lipped about the first stage filters following the initial roughing filter. RO is a no brainer and has changed little in the past 10-15 years, and electrical power needed to run it is very high and there are, as far as I know, been no technical breakthrought with regard to marked decreases in RO energy consumption over the same time period.

Even with 18 Solar PV modules as Geoff pointed out, IMHO, there's not enough electrical power provided for RO, let alone for controllers and pumping.

OF GREAT INTEREST ON THEIR SCHEMATIC DIAGRAM ONE WILL FIND AN ELECTRICAL PLUG & OUTLET SYMBOL IN THE UPPER RIGHTHAND CORNER!!!! This alone makes me suspicious regarding the capabilities of this piece of equipment to make potable water from either brackish or sea water without the aid of 120 VAC/220 VAC power source! The Solar PV panels may be adequate for fresh water filtration, basically to run the controllers, pump(s)???, backwashing????, UV Disinfection and chlorinator/injector if needed.

Again, in order for them to sell me on this piece of equipment, I want to see cold hard numbers resulting from Independent testing agency and EPA/ or a state health dept Certification of compliance letter. I don't see why this is so hard to supply to us if they've already undergone testing and the state(s) review procedures, UNLESS they've not done so. I don't care what any Pentagon Brass cheese-ball has to say, especially when it's on a marketing circular! Holds no credence with me what he says, or what they demonstrated. Also, along this vein, where's the US Army's Material Command evaluation and testing reports, and well as certification letters??????

Have a great sunny Solar PV day!!!!

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#1246
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/10/2010 10:26 AM

I was asking why someone marked the JPHRO post off-topic?
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#1247
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/10/2010 10:59 AM

As said, I failed to get what I forwarded around up here.

However I did look over the stuff, and noticed a major difference in processing numbers. Wonder if you noticed 3 thousand gallons a day for brackish seawater production using the RO, and 5 thousand a day for the activated carbon?

The machine does claim to eliminate 99 percent of the pathogens that you and CW have raised as concerns, though with what appears to be an important caveat, saying that the pathogens are not necessarily eliminated from whatever particles not filtered out.

Really I hope you guys understand that as far as the issue of this particular machine, and water, I am not at all claiming to be the expert, and am only trying to get at the facts.

I noted that there is a big difference between 30,000 gallons and 3 or 5 thousand gallons. Wonder if you all saw what I saw, for I am not above either misreading, or reading right, misleading info.

I also noted that patents are pending, so this may explain some of the lack of detail in the descriptive literature.

Either way it would seem to be good to at least be able to recommend water solutions that obviate the dependence on air shipments of bottled water from Atlanta.

That solution seems unsustainable.

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#1248
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/10/2010 12:25 PM

Trans,

Just to let you know: 99 % removal of pathogens is NOT a very spectacular removal rate. It is actually on par with some older water filtration equipment such as multi-media and rapid sand filtration. It may be fine for 3rd world countries because they don't have the resources and technical expertise to run some modern-day water filtration plants. For Haiti, it may be appropriate only as an interim solution, not a long term solution.

New York State Health Dept. Bureau of Water Supply requires a 99.99% removal of Cryptosporidium cysts and Giardia Lambia, which equates to a log-4 removal rate. A Slow Sand Water Filtration Plant can achieve a log-4 removal rate time and time again, but you must have huge tracts of vacant land, acceptable raw water quality to begin with, provide the PROPER filter media that must meet several stringent standards (not beach sand, or limestone based sands and stone which Haiti has plenty of) and lots of the media to boot to construct the filter beds. Even the start-up depth of the sand in a SSF is 2.0 m or about 6.0 feet!!!! Overall depth of the multi-layer stone media is approximately the same!

As far as I'm concerned as a LPE which designs water treatment equipment, the MaxPure equipment just isn't cutting the mustard, unless they can prove it otherwise.....

I'll say it again and again, since you have abundant sea water practically surrounding Haiti, for the LONG TERM go with some sort of Desalination technology, but not necessarily RO.....see my previous posting (and URL link) about the technology developed by the New Mexico Sate University that uses solar thermal in the desalination process.....temps need to only down in the mid-140's F when a low vacuum applied versus up near boiling with other processes. This is a breakthrough technology, and really what the 3rd World and Emerging Nations need!!!!!!! And guess what? Haiti has plenty of sunshine all year round!!!!

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#1249
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/10/2010 1:02 PM

I am as suspicious of the MaxWater system as everyone else, and I am opposed to marketing substandard systems to an uninformed third world public ("dumping" substandard products). However, I do not think it is productive to insist that any solution meet US standards (especially, since many, many US water districts prove time and again that they can not meet their own standards). The cost of meeting such standards is quite prohibitive for much of the world, not only from the standpoint of initial cost, but the maintenance costs as well.

I also don't see RO as a viable option for Haiti, again on the basis of realistic costs for these systems (initial, operation and maintenance costs). The vacuum evaporation system suggested by CaptMoosie sounds much more attractive for what I perceive as the situation on the ground, but I do not have sufficient information about this system to pass judgment at this time...
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#1251
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/10/2010 1:27 PM

Haiti has been a non-compliance state in the general global scenario of organized states. Without the govt taking an active part in development of the resources and infrastructure Haiti will continue as a miserable place to exist within for most of the people.

We can't effect this and so without any appreciable standards established we should not be surprised if companies test their equipment on the populous due the govt reputation of corruption even when the spot light is on; it is afterall their country.

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cwarner7_11
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#1252
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/10/2010 1:35 PM

bwire-all too true, but that still doesn't stop me from opposing it in principle! See my discussions of ethics and morals on the "Messing with Trees" discussion. Selling substandard products to an uninformed customer is misleading, dishonest, and potentially harmful to the health or wellbeing of the unsuspecting customer- this is the basis for my judgment that such activities are immoral or unethical.

But, I do not expect that my personal opinion is going to have much of an impact on how business is done in this world...
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#1254
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/10/2010 4:33 PM

says here that if using RO for seawater, it requires 1180 psi of pressure. So how come one couldn't stuff some RO material in the end of half a mile of drill pipe or similar, hang it off a boat or whatever, and then simply pump up the purified water?

my calcs show that seawater is 0.44 psi/foot of pressure. and so 1180 psi is equivalent to 2,649 feet deep. (CW, I think we discussed some of this on my Offshore thread) perhaps you can simply run a pipeline from shore out to where the water is deep enough to generate the pressure. If you don't want to go that deep, then add a submersible pump, but the the seawater depth at least help with the energy required.. it is free after all.... all you need is pipe & RO filters, if the freshwater is being removed, then the DP of seawater pressure to the bottom end of the pipe is sufficient. I guess you might have to go a bit deeper.. but I dunno why the principle wouldn't work?

Just wondering...??

Chris
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#1255
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/10/2010 5:48 PM

1. You need a PRESSURE DIFFERENTIAL between the two surfaces of the membranes. While is 1180 psi is a bit high (800 psi works, for limited flow), it is not easy getting the pressure differential required at depth. Perhaps with a really, really powerful positive displacement vacuum pump and some pretty exotic plumbing and control, you might be able to get something that works, but I have serious doubts about this...

2. The membranes require maintenance- typically backflushing to prevent fouling, periodic chemical cleaning, and typically replacement every couple of years (depending on how well you maintain them). Putting them at depth in the ocean complicates the maintenance issues (i.e., significant cost impact).
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#1256
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/10/2010 6:25 PM

thank you.
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#1257
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/10/2010 8:07 PM

How can someone be off topic (5) when one behaves like a true Gentleman?

Bugger, Ky.

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#1250
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/10/2010 1:26 PM

CaptMoosie-

Have a look at the Water for Haiti thread, and the bit about tree seeds...
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#1253
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/10/2010 1:59 PM

Far as I'm concerned whatever you and CW determine to be Best, Second best, or minimum best possible are the things to recommend.

I did and have invited Worldwide & Solar to speak here for themselves.

What sort of desalination process is to be determined, aye?

Problem with sea level sources seem to me to be a distribution problem requiring pumps uphill, or trucks.

Hence I am more for systems that work with gravity as CW has proposed.

The attraction of the World wide machines is that they fit into my Micro Infrastructure concepts.

Salt has not been addressed fully. I have read that many die early in Haiti due to high blood pressure induced by high levels of salt in the water. -Is this a correct understanding of the issues?

In order the concerns are Food, Water, and Shelter.

We have been working mostly on shelter concepts, and are working backwards to water, and food issues.

In a way I suppose I am attempting to rebuild a land based spaceship that is sustainable on less than half an island out 1000 miles from the nearest wealth centers for a people half literate, with few natural resources and a history of incredible corruption.

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#1258
In reply to #1253

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/10/2010 11:30 PM

Were this a CR4 usual thread, it is fully understandable that folk search about for perfect technology and new ways.

It is also useful to identify the end picture and retro engineer, so stage 1 is not full tear-down to move to stage 2, and so on.

However this is now a Haiti thread – so has a finite context.

The water problem in Haiti is a catchment infrastructure absence despite a huge rainfall.

The Haiti water (and irrigation) infrastructure was broken and will be broken again, if not by hurricane or earthquake, by same cost of maintaining a foreign technology by a country with nothing and 85% of the population living on what they can daily steal.

Water is not a technology intervention opportunity, in fact it's a technology intervention caused disaster – to wit – a bled dry and now salt degrading aquifer, polluted and silted reservoirs, dead pumps and shattered mains.

Basically it was and is irresponsible to think in terms of technology that is not sustainable on local resources, or dirt simple and cheap to import, until a local production / skill-set, can be established.

But - No matter how you look at desalination it does not fit Haiti.

It is uncompetitive with free rain.

It is a continuing overhead.

It is reliant on imported technology.

Its infrastructure makes the same earthquake and hurricane vulnerable mistake.

Can Haiti do this?

Multi-stage flash distillation (MSF) is a water desalination process that distills sea water by flashing a portion of the water into steam in multiple stages of what are essentially regenerative heat exchangers. Reverse osmosis plants are the most common type, but multi-stage flash distillation plants produce over 85 percent of all desalinated water in the world.

Such plants can operate at 23-27kWh/m3 of distilled water

In addition, MSF distillation plants, especially large ones, are often paired with power plants in a co-generation configuration. Waste heat from the power plant is used to heat the seawater, providing cooling for the power plant at the same time. This reduces the energy needed by one-half to two-thirds, which drastically alters the economics of the plant, since energy is by far the largest operating cost of MSF plants.

Reverse osmosis, MSF distillation's main competitor, requires more pretreatment of the seawater and more maintenance, as well as energy in the form of work (electricity, mechanical power) as opposed to cheaper low-grade waste heat.

Can Haiti do this?: Nanofiltration

I could sell them an alternate powered system tomorrow – but even Wiki sees: "However, there remain issues as to how these developing countries will be able to incorporate this new technology into their economy without creating a dependency on foreign assistance."

And when the next hurricane or earthquake or parts problem, disables any part of the system or mass storage or distribution – Haiti is back at square1.

What Haiti can do is a solar energy powered solution that replaces wells.

When I put up the tarp solution and local capture/use – it was a considered solution on all above, including the now and future Haiti context

Tarps* = canvas = grow Jute or Hemp or abacá or Sisal – make your own canvas and rope – then cloth and thread = export the eco products to westerners running out of oil.

Do read the links carefully – relate the crops to Haiti topography, soil types, erosion problems and climate zones (altitude). Note such as fertilizer demands (imports) and markets, product ranges, by-products and specs like UV resistance and even rot.

*Yes the water solution and Haiti sustainable future solution is in that one word.

Kyzine
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#1259
In reply to #1258

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/11/2010 12:39 PM

From afar I continue to study Haiti as a whole.

Noted that growing flowers has been proposed as an industry for Haiti.

Noted one report that said 70 percent of their food is imported.

Have noted that there seems to be a great leadership vacuum.

Education is apparently very deficient.

There is a language barrier. Everybody else around speaks either English, or Spanish. They speak either Kreyol, (Creole), or French.

What Haiti as going for it is sabotaged by an apparent over population problem for their resources.

There simply does not seem to be a realistic solution to all of the problems there if all of the population is essentially trapped there.

Suggestions I have made have been that Haitians be carried away from the island on the planes and ships delivering water and food in recognition of the fact that sheltering them, and feeding them on the island has been, and will be an impossible task.

I look to Louisiana, and Quebec for places where they may have shared culture and language enough to find work.

I've suggested that since Haitians need education desperately, and share some language and culture with those in Louisiana, the State of Louisiana may well be the best place for them to be relocated primarily.

We are talking about what is called the Lifeboat Scenario, which has been known to be coming more and more frequently as a problem as the world population has grown and grown.

Haitians for decades now have attempted to get off the island in lifeboats, and it is simply a fact that with a million without shelter or jobs, lacking in education, and all sorts of failures of leadership and resource management, there is no other realistic solution to the foreseeable disaster coming on the heels of hurricanes, and earthquake, but a partial evacuation.

How many need to be evacuated? Where to locate them?

Why not put them in the water delivery planes and land them in Atlanta, then send them to Louisiana where they can work, and get educated?

I am tempted to attempt to find any win win solution imaginable.

The US, and the UN, and other nations are spending money in Haiti. Really how might this money tool be best spent? Should the UN just hire able bodied Haitians and train them as Peace Keepers?

Should the US make peace with Cuba, and give Cuba some money to take some Haitians, or help build infrastructure there?

There are issues in the region that have festered for decades it would be good to resolve, and Cuba is close to Haiti.

What really can the Dominican Republic do?

They have seemed to have long decided it was in their national interest to maintain what trees and resources they need for their people, and wall themselves off from Haitian practices.

Killings and violence have occurred that likely are not forgotten by Haitians, and those of the DR that likely sour some hopes of well being on the island as a whole.

The DR, has only recently itself seemed to have reached a certain level of stability. I wonder how much even they can do realistically.

When Katrina tore New Orleans up, many of that little town, ended up in Houston, or some other place as a simple realistic partial solution to the event.

The more I study Haiti, and the problems there, the more again I see problems not possible to solve if an evacuation of people is not undertaken, if further continued disaster after disaster is to be mitigated.

When a boat is overloaded, it sinks. Haiti is simply overloaded and sinking under the weight of too many people on a rudderless ship, battered by storms both natural, and manmade.

If the US and the UN can't make sensible realistic and practical moves to prevent and obviate what is known to be in the offing, then no amount of giving, volunteerism or technology will do more than be a show that ends in the whimper TS Eliot wrote a poem about.

The world is on its way to becoming The Wasteland.

A seething roiling hopeless and hatefilled place determined to put to death and doom the very idea of civilization, and return us all to the jungle from whence we came.

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#1282
In reply to #1239

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/13/2010 6:51 PM

Chris and All,

had a call from a Haitian gentleman who was in contact with Oscar Gubernati who is on the ground for J/P HRO (Sean Penns Foundation), well he had checked out the CR4 Globalspec website and has seen all our suggestions and liked what he saw. He also commneted why the UN, and USAID/FEMA never considered the idea...I said we had apporached them and were dismissed as "unproven".

He also refered to Father Marks orphange in LaCayes....was the site showng the 20 ft containers coming off the truck.....took nearly 8 hrs from Porto-Au-Preince over the mountains (Richard Martin knows the orphange and school and said road is rough to travel back 5 years ago, probably worse since the quake). They now have nearly 2,300 children in La Cayes and more than 600 in Coteau (majority increase of approx 1,100+ in the last three weeks)...so need for more shelter/school buildings.

Anyway Jack Reynolds the founder of "Free the Kids" is Father Marks Brother and would like any advice along with Morisset St Preux (the gentleman who contacted me). He is aware of a group lead by Anthony Madden CEO of GlobalCon and Doug Lowe Principal and Founder of Architecture for Humanity, the Zatak Foundation of Chicago and several others who were in Haiti all last week....much of the presentation contained data, info and Chrig288 and StueyWrights drawings/sketches contributeed via CR4 and CW is on the advisory committee.

So all the CR4 efforts have been recognized and are now being included in some of the situational problem solving ideas going forward...so well done everyone on all the threads. All the time-frustration etc is now paying off with people reaching out....Well done everyone

Geoff Daly NH

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#1460
In reply to #1282

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 9:39 AM

I have attached what we have been doing at GlobalCon Holdings (GCH, GA) recently with regards to the use of shipping containers or now ISBU (Intermodal Steel Building Units) for a emergency housing on a sustainable disaster site (SDRS) that connects to our neighboring sustainable renaissance community (SRC - live work play community).

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#1461
In reply to #1460

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 9:41 AM

The use of shipping containers or now ISBU (Intermodal Steel Building Units) for a emergency housing on a sustainable disaster site (SDRS)

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#1462
In reply to #1461

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 9:48 AM

The use of shipping containers or now ISBU (Intermodal Steel Building Units) for a emergency housing on a sustainable disaster site (SDRS). Supertherm applied for thermal resistance bring heat intake reduction by 50F.

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#1467
In reply to #1462

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 11:32 AM

Captain - just out of interest - how does pumping concrete fit in with your terms?

Oh - and how does vibrating?

And pressure heads in form-work?

Kyzine
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#1469
In reply to #1467

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 11:57 AM

You can pump and vibrate plastic concrete. You can't once it sets-up and starts hardening.

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#1470
In reply to #1469

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 12:19 PM

Sniping is not helpful.

We live too much in books and not enough in nature, and we are very much like the simpleton of a Pliny the Younger, who went on studying a Greek author while before his eyes Vesuvius was overwhelming five cities beneath the ashes. --Bugsy S.
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#1472
In reply to #1469

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 12:30 PM

Dear "Guest" & Packratus:

Here's a copy and paste directly from the National Ready-Mix Producers Association Website. I can also copy and paste ACI-318 if need be, but I think this will end the debate once and for all for the two wise-asses who think they know more than anyone else, especially Civil Engineers.

Note: you will notice the words "PLASTIC" (2nd Para., 1st sentence) and "PLACE" (3rd Para., 3rd sentence + 6th Para., 5th Sentence) in their proper usage and context, within the following paragraphs:

Concrete Basics

In its simplest form, concrete is a mixture of paste and aggregates (sand & rock). The paste, composed of cement and water, coats the surface of the fine (sand) and coarse aggregates (rocks) and binds them together into a rock-like mass known as concrete.

Within this process lies the key to a remarkable trait of concrete: it's plastic and can be molded or formed into any shape when newly mixed, strong and durable when hardened. These qualities explain why one material, concrete, can build skyscrapers, bridges, sidewalks, and superhighways, houses and dams.

The key to achieving a strong, durable concrete rests on the careful proportioning and mixing of the ingredients. A concrete mixture that does not have enough paste to fill all the voids between the aggregates will be difficult to place and will produce rough, honeycombed surfaces and porous concrete. A mixture with an excess of cement paste will be easy to place and will produce a smooth surface; however, the resulting concrete will be more likely to crack and be uneconomical.

A properly proportioned concrete mixture will possess the desired workability for the fresh concrete and the required durability and strength for the hardened concrete. Typically, a mixture is by volume about 10 to 15 percent cement, 60 to 75 percent aggregates and 15 to 20 percent water. Entrained air bubbles in many concrete mixtures may also take up another 5 to 8 percent.

Portland cement's chemistry comes to life in the presence of water. Cement and water form a paste that surrounds and binds each particle of sand and stone. Through a chemical reaction of cement and water called hydration, the paste hardens and gains strength.

The character of concrete is determined by the quality of the paste. The strength of the paste, in turn, depends on the ratio of water to cement. The water-cement ratio is the weight of the mixing water divided by the weight of the cement. High-quality concrete is produced by lowering the water-cement ratio as much as possible without sacrificing the workability of fresh concrete. Generally, using less water produces a higher quality concrete provided the concrete is properly placed, consolidated and cured.

Besides Portland cement, concrete may contain other cementitious materials including fly ash, a waste byproduct from coal burning electric power plants; ground slag, a byproduct of iron and steel manufacturing; and silica fume, a waste byproduct from the manufacture of silicon or ferro-silicon metal. Some of these cementitious materials are similar to the volcanic ashes the Romans mixed with lime to obtain their cement binder. Some of these structures still exist today! The concrete industry uses these materials, which would normally have to be disposed in land-fill sites, to the advantage of concrete. The materials participate in the hydration reaction and significantly improve the strength, permeability and durability of concrete.

Other Ingredients

Aggregates for concrete are chosen carefully. Aggregates comprise 60 to 75 percent of the total volume of concrete. The type and size of the aggregate mixture depends on the thickness and purpose of the final concrete product. Relatively thin buildings sections can require small coarse aggregates, though aggregates up to six inches (150 mm) in diameter have been used in large dams. A continuous gradation of particle sizes is desirable for efficient use of the paste. In addition, aggregates should be clean and free from any matter that might affect the quality of the concrete.

Almost any natural water that is drinkable and has no pronounced taste or odor may be used as mixing water for concrete. However, some waters that are not fit for drinking may be suitable for concrete.

Excessive impurities in mixing water not only may affect time and concrete strength, but also may cause efflorescence, staining, corrosion of reinforcement, volume instability and reduced durability.

Specifications usually set limits on chlorides, sulfates, alkalis, and solids in mixing water unless tests indicate that the water will not negatively impact concrete properties.

<<<END OF COPY & PASTE>>>

So wise guys, do I really need to start scanning all of my concrete textbooks to prove my point.....there's literally a hundred of them on my library bookshelves and I haven't even started to count the relevant CD's and DVD's!

So, read 'em and weep dumb f*cks! I've proven my point, so "Finis"

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#1474
In reply to #1472

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 12:35 PM

Sigh. It's the sniping and name calling that's so beneath you and this thread.

Bugsy S.
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#1475
In reply to #1472

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 12:48 PM

The text books don't prove anything, except your need to be right

In the real world on construction sites across the planet, concrete is poured.

you wrote about the need to "take it outside"

You then proceed to go on a multipost rant about semantics, that are a non issue to everyone but you, fanning a flame war.
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#1477
In reply to #1472

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 1:08 PM

OK, CaptMoosie- I see why there is confusion over terminology with regards to concrete work here. You see, what is called "concrete" in this part of the world only bears a cursory resemblance to what you are accustomed to working with. For fine aggregate, the locals like to use unwashed beach sand, because it is easier to come by, as is evidenced by the rust stains bleeding down the walls of freshly-poured concrete. River rock is preferred to crushed rock, despite the rounded corners, again mostly due to availability. Cold joints in a structural wall are acceptable, because local traffic interferes with timely delivery of the next truck load. Slump test? What's a slump test? And why would you break up a perfectly good test cylinder? They have far more value as garden decorations when they are whole than they do after being crushed in a press (which most likely isn't working anyway, or if it is, it is so out of calibration the numbers are virtually meaningless). Block requires special handling, or it crumbles in your hands- using too much cement when molding blocks makes them too expensive...And we haven't even gotten around to the issues that arise when mixing concrete in a wheel barrow, which every local farmer feels he has sufficient knowledge to accomplish..."Concrete" is the favorite temporary building material in this part of the world, because it is so much easier to tear down than other materials...

Now, granted, Panama is not Haiti, and there is evidence that, although "concrete" has been used in Panama far longer than in the United States, the current practices are a recent phenomenon, since there are concrete structures still standing in Panama that were built around 1519. However, we must deal with current practices, and I suspect current practices are more similar to what is going on in Panama than what is going on in Albany. Which probably contributed to a large part of the deaths from the earthquake.

The point that I am trying to make is that arguing over the appropriate terminology is not going to change the practices that are threatening lives in Haiti. It doesn't matter whether they "pour" their concrete or "place" it. What matters is recovering the technical knowledge once held by the Romans, and communicating this to a populace that can not even read...
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#1473
In reply to #1462

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 12:33 PM

Well it doesn't sound like explosives or Thermite are going to be of much use.

I did find it interesting of what use the Thermite is though.

As far as the argument concerning the use of proper terms for how concrete gets into a form, I doubt it is worth such a great deal of passion, though it is interesting.

And everybody was getting along so well there for awhile...

I've got a pet peeve about how people use the word motor incorrectly, but its not going to change, and not worth working having a fit about. - A Motor, is an electric motor, and an Engine is a gasoline engine, for instance. The difference is that an engine carries its fuel, whereas a motor gets its power from outside of itself, is sort of the definition difference, but somehow I guess people like the sound of Motorcar, better than EngineCar.

I also get cranked when people use the words Morality and Ethics incorrectly, for often Morality is not really ethical, whereas ethics are always moral.

I'd rather be part of the Ethical Minority, than the Moral Majority, for this reason. I actually believe that the US Founding Fathers understood the difference between Morality, and Ethics, and that is why they recommended a separation between Church and State.

P.S. Does sound like a concoction that you could squirt out of a caulk gun and light that would burn a nice hole in something like a shipping container, would be nice to have in the toolbox, don't yah think? I can think of a rescue application like when sailors are trapped in a capsized ship and a cutting torch wasn't available.

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#1480
In reply to #1473

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 1:55 PM

Wow, that was fun!

I was already convinced Thermite wasn't going to work out, but I like explosions as much as the next guy. For entertainment purposes...especially!

Still wonder if some guy at Dupont has some nice tube of metal burning caulk laying around?

Seems like I've seen some movie where bank robbers used something to burn holes in a safe that might be applicable for the fast and dirty, sort of thing I'm thinking about. Course we know they make stuff up for the movies sometimes.

Chrisg put up some interesting news links today, by the way. I'm miffed about that no bid contract let out for the rebuilding of the Port-au-Prince capitol building. Course I was miffed that Haiti cancelled their elections too, and was miffed Aristide wasn't put in there with the ex Presidents Clinton and Bush for the take over of control of Haiti by the UN. Why don't I get to vote for the UN Secretary General anyway?

Too bad we aint seen some oil company give Preval a Shipping Container home office to live in.

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#1481
In reply to #1480

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 2:06 PM

Trans-

Back in my military days, we had these incendiary grenades. We had to leave one sitting on top our encryption equipment, in case the base was over-run- the idea being that one's last act of heroism was to set off the grenade and let it burn through the equipment and destroy it completely...I never had to use one. But I don't think these would be a good idea for burning holes in containers- they start burning and keep burning until there is nothing left...
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#1531
In reply to #1480

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 9:51 PM

If you like explosions you should join us at one of our firework displays. Here's a short video showing a part our display from the operators point of view.

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#1532
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 10:06 PM

Gee I wonder if thermite could be used to

I don't know

Cut up a cast iron bath tub?
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#1533
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 10:15 PM

Don't make me go there

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#1534
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 10:26 PM

How is that off-topic?

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#1535
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 10:39 PM

It should not be called off topic but entrapping

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#1536
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 10:46 PM

I still think due to all issues and experience, a sledgehammer is best for the job, however since cast iron bath tubs have value, you may want to not destroy it.

However it is true some things are not worth but so much time.

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#1498
In reply to #1473

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 10:49 PM

Thanks Nigh - good link.

It makes the "messy" - and pouring molten metal points - perhaps too well.

(Kinda overkill quantities )

I noticed that they used the wrong ignition technique (first up blew out a lot of material), but it looked good.

Main plus is folk now know what it looks like and how it behaves, so can imagine how a trail could be used to cut - and also the reasons for working horizontal.

It can be a lot neater - but as said "amateur oxy" is about the best result.

I am puzzled by the stress on "irreversible". I would have thought this goes hand in hand with exothermic reaction - be that firewood to HE. Thermite being at the slower end, you could disrupt it - particularly if cutting a long slot - where as say with det chord you'd have "less time". Funny how these 'end point' words replace how it's achieved words, in the minds of some.

Excellent find - very helpful
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#1501
In reply to #1498

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 11:11 PM

Guest,

we have a separate thread for cutting openings in containers...go back aways and you will find CW's cross refernces.

Plasma cutters are the speediest, leaves a cleaner cut and less clean up.

PS. thermite is old hat..firex is the newer stuff and cuts like butter...is a shaped charge format in a thin flexible metalic tube.....takes down power towers in less than 10 secs and cuts thru 6" thick steel doors in 10 to 15 sec at 3400F+.

Geoff Daly NH

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#1513
In reply to #1501

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 4:51 AM

Serendipitously it's the ridiculousness of that very post you quoted being discussed.

As someone said the first time; That's just what the Haitian gangs need! - (or WTTE).

Expensive, unsustainable + chaos
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#1515
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 8:39 AM

Hey Geoff,

I agree that Thermite is old hat and Firex is THE cutting instrument of choice. the problem is that there's no way to show the Haitians how to brew their own DIY "Firex", unless there is some DIY online out there showing or depicting how to make it with readily available materials.

It would be very kewl if there is a U-Tube vid showing how to make Firex wouldn't it?? I'd try to make some of it myself on the BBQ grill!!!! hehehehe

So, I guess as an alternative we can go with the Thermite Show 'N Tell....there'd be no problem gathering up the ingredients to make it.

Ummmm do you have a basic favorite recipe for the Firex that you can share? I don't have one.

And since I have a lot of structural steel here that needs some attention (for the steel trusses of my toolshed)..........

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#1490
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 7:22 PM

thats a lot of containes.. if each yellow block is made up of 8 40's and 4 20's? What is the transparent stuff over top of the yellow blocks? Tarps? Water catchments? what material?

good work,

Chris
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#1500
In reply to #1490

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 10:56 PM

Yes 8 - 40's and 4 - 20's making a Pod to house a minimum of 46 people as 2 of the 20's can be dedicated shower and toilet/lavatory facilities per Pod if necessary.

The transparent stuff represents the galvanized corrugated roofing which will not be transparent, but opaque, low sloping at a minimum 2:12 pitch and bolted on light weight steel trusses at 2'-0" c/c bolted on container edge channels.

It is shown transparent for clarity of the interior courtyard space the container Pods create.

The water catchment system can be handled by gutter and downspout off the roof overhang to 20gal drum.

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#1502
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 11:14 PM

Garfield,

that all sounds excellent... except (imho) for the 20 Gallon drum. thats too small to store useful amounts of water for 46 people, and if it overflows, then where will it go.. puddle on ground makes mud. at the very least there will be a requirement for some drainage paths, for which the concrete fabric idea is great, and easy to implement.

I suggest that you use the cascading 45gallon drum system I suggested earlier, and people can use the lifestraw if they need to drink or other simple technology we've discussed. In the rainy season, the area inside the 'fort' will accumulate water massively if it is not collected. For washing clothes, (showering?) and toilet flushing, plant growing (green roofs?) this is 'free water' if you can collect it. (subject to a chemical dose to keep the bugs at bay, as per CaptMoosie's specs.. a thousand posts ago.)

What do you or anyone think of an insulated container that has a bladder or (stainless?) liner, that can catch rainwater, be treated, and have a liquid solar collector with heat exchanger to make hot water? or a 'black - glazed-over open-top that catches water and heats it. (treated again - batch style I guess, after each rain)

Chris
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#1504
In reply to #1502

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 11:39 PM

Container with bladder is a good idea. However, I would not suggest heating it. It will not take long for algae to take over the tank just in sunlight. Adding heat to the mix, unless hot enough to boil, is going to compound this problem...Hot water for bathing is not as popular in the tropics as it is up north, nor do most people consider it necessary or even desired. If you really, really want hot water, solar heaters are a great choice for this part of the world, but the biggest problem with selling solar hot water heaters in this part of the world is convincing people they want hot water in the first place...
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#1505
In reply to #1504

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 12:16 AM

lol... I was sitting in a tub of hot water and bubbles today (where I do my best thinking).. and it snowed last night... sorry.

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#1508
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 2:13 AM

Cwarner, they like hot (warm) water here too, mostly for showers. And pretty often, to get rid of the sweat that pours out - especially from May to September. The air is very humid and besides a pool, showers are the only outcome. Heat management in the containers will be the biggest problem. That metal is a radiating and ready to fry eggs on. A tropical roof = ventilated and double will help a little. Survival... in the tropics in a container is only possible with a heat isolating hat (personal protection = the lowest in risk mangement !!) combined with a dangerous airflow far above (worse) the comfort zone. I run solar hot water with CPVC pipes under the (light reddish) roof tiles and get 55 degrees celsius water out of it in the sun. Most people will spend many hours in and around the "new city". The air is never dry. always between 80 and 100% relative. At night you also will have a lot of condensation inside.

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#1511
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 2:25 AM

Rich folk here in Panama like their hot water showers, and so do I. But the bulk of the population won't use the hot water even if it is available...Thinking in terms of the reality of the situation in Haiti, I suspect hot showers are not high on the agenda...High ceilings, plenty of air movement (ceiling fans are my preferred method), and lots of shade trees makes a significant difference in the comfort level. I doubt any of these solutions are available to those that are suffering most. I do not even DREAM of leaving the comfort of my cave without some sort of head cover these days (especially since I have suffered a loss in recent years of my natural insulating cover!). Condensation at night is going to be a serious problem, especially where you have a lot of people confined to a small area...Which is why a lot of people prefer sleeping outdoors in the tropics (in a hammock strung between two of your shade trees, under a mosquito net, of course)...Maybe a thatch roof over the hammock in case it rains...Indoor living is for those of you unfortunate enough to have to live in colder climes...
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#1516
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 8:57 AM

I agree with C-W to NOT heat the water, but rather keep it cool as possible. There's a few reasons for this:

1). Algae and bacteria multiple much faster (exponentially) as the water gets warmer. that's something you don't want those organisms to do.

2). People will drink water in much larger quantities when it's cooler. It just tastes better and is more refreshing! You want people to drink water as much as possible to keep diseases at bay or check plus prevent dehydration.

3). Correct Chlorine demand and dosing requirements are more difficult to ascertain when the water gets warmer (above 80 Deg. F) plus it's more difficult to hold a good chlorine residual over a period of time.

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#1518
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 9:45 AM

3). Correct Chlorine demand and dosing requirements are more difficult to ascertain when the water gets warmer (above 80 Deg. F) plus it's more difficult to hold a good chlorine residual over a period of time.

Please explain why use chlorine is prefered over iodine?

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#1519
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 10:40 AM

The reason why is several fold: Liquid Sodium Hypochlorite is fairly cheap, is available in large quantities, easy to mix and inject into the filtered water stream. Also, if you screw up on the dosage and make the chlorine residual much higher than say the initial 1 - 2 ppm, then you won't make people sick or kill them.

With Iodine, it's much more expensive, not readily available on large quantities, and fairly easy to screw-up the dosages. I've never been fond of administering any form of Iodine (including in drinking water) orally without a Physician's Prescription. You screw up just a little and provide water with a higher the required dosage injection into the filtered raw water and you can actually kill or seriously maim people! Plus too much Iodine can damage the Thyroid gland and the Liver. DANGEROUS PRACTICE and NOT a good way to disinfect water.

I always go with the "Gold Standard" of water disinfection, Chlorine, because of it's long successful track record.

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#1520
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 11:19 AM

Whoa,

I asked a legitimate question with no designs of usage and though I appreciate the information I can do without the harangue.

Sodium iodide has no purification effect, povidone-iodine solution is used.

I asked about the iodine because it is extremely effective and has true health benefits other than producing good water.

Goiter is a common ailment in Haiti

Iodine is an element (atomic number 53) which is required by humans for the synthesis of thyroid hormones (triiodothyronine/T3 and thyroxine/T4).

Chronic iodine deficiency can lead to numerous health problems in children and adults, including thyroid gland dysfunction (including goiter) and various neurologic, gastrointestinal, and skin abnormalities. Iodine deficiency in pregnant or nursing mothers can lead to significant neurocognitive deficits in their infants. "Cretinism" or severe mental retardation is a rare outcome of severe iodine deficiency during early development. Growth stunting, apathy, impaired movement, or speech/hearing problems may occur. Many individuals living in developing countries may be at risk of iodine deficiency and its complications, and iodine deficiency is considered to be a preventable cause of mental retardation.

************

Chlorine: Chlorine is familiar to most Americans as it is used to treat virtually all municipal water systems in the United States. For a long time chlorine, in the form of Halazone tablets, was used to purify small batches of water for campers and military troops. Later questions emerged about the effectiveness of Halazone, and in 1989, Abbot labs pulled it off the market. If Halazone tablets are encountered outside the US, the nominal shelf life is 6 months, and the dosage is 2 tabs per liter. Until recently, there was no chlorine product designed for wilderness/survival use available in the US.

Chlorine has a number of problems when used for field treatment of water. When chlorine reacts with organic material, it attaches itself to nitrogen containing compounds (ammonium ions and amino acids), leaving less free chlorine to continue disinfection. Carcinogenic trihalomethanes are also produced, though this is only a problem with long-term exposure. Trihalomethanes can also be filtered out with a charcoal filter, though it is more efficient to use the same filter to remove organics before the water is chlorinated. Unless free chlorine is measured, disinfection can not be guaranteed with moderate doses of chlorine. One solution is superchlorination, the addition of far more chlorine than is needed. This must again be filtered through activated charcoal to remove the large amounts of chlorine, or hydrogen peroxide can be added to drive the chlorine off. Either way there is no residual chlorine left to prevent recontamination. This isn't a problem if the water is to be used at once.

Chlorine is sensitive to both the pH and temperature of the treated water. Temperature slows the reaction for any chemical treatment, but chlorine treatment is particularly susceptible to variations in the pH as at lower pHs, hypochlorous acid is formed, while at higher pHs, it will tend to dissociate into hydrogen and chlorite ions, which are less effective as a disinfectant. As a result, chlorine effectiveness drops off when the pH is greater than 8.

Iodine: Iodine's use as a water purification method emerged after WW2, when the US military was looking for a replacement for Halazone tablets. Iodine was found to be in many ways superior to chlorine for use in treating small batches of water. Iodine is less sensitive to the pH and organic content of water, and is effective in lower doses. Some individuals are allergic to iodine, and there is some question about long term use of iodine. The safety of long-term exposure to low levels of iodine was proven when inmates of three Florida prisons were given water disinfected with 0.5 to 1.0 PPM iodine for 15 years. No effects on the health or thyroid function of previously healthy inmates was observed. Of 101 infants born to prisoners drinking the water for 122- 270 days, none showed detectable thyroid enlargement. However 4 individuals with preexisting cases of hyperthyroidism became more symptomatic while consuming the water.

Iodine is normally used in doses of 8 PPM to treat clear water for a 10 minute contact time. The effectiveness of this dose has been shown in numerous studies. Cloudy water needs twice as much iodine or twice as much contact time. In cold water (Below 41° F or 5° C) the dose or time must also be doubled. In any case doubling the treatment time will allow the use of half as much iodine

These doses are calculated to remove all pathogens (other than cryptosporida) from the water. Of these, giardia cysts are the hardest to kill, and are what requires the high level of iodine. If the cysts are filtered out with a microfilter (any model will do since the cysts are 6 µm), only 0.5 PPM is needed to treat the resulting water.

Water treated with iodine can have any objectionable taste removed by treating the water with vitamin C (ascorbic acid), but it must be added after the water has stood for the correct treatment time. Flavored beverages containing vitamin C will accomplish the same thing. Sodium thiosulfate can also be used to combine with free iodine, and either of these chemicals will also help remove the taste of chlorine as well. Usually elemental iodine can't be tasted below 1 PPM, and below 2 PPM the taste isn't objectionable. Iodine ions have an even higher taste threshold of 5 PPM. Note that removing the iodine taste does not reduce the dose of iodine ingested by the body.

read more here

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#1521
In reply to #1519

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 11:37 AM

Ozone maybe?
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#1522
In reply to #1521

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 12:49 PM

Ozone is reliant on power to generate the HV and needs either a weir or micro injection system to assure full contact/intersection with greebies.

It's a bit hi tech and is also deadly if got wrong - 2 ways - gas and power. 3 if you count not working.

Not wanting to get involved in the above, residual chlorine is an issue in reducing natural resistance to some greebies. Some people are allergic to iodine. Most people need iodine. No one needs chlorine.

But generally IMHO these guys drink about 2 liters per day, the rest is boiled in food intake.

So going on about the balance is a waste of space. Has been since drilling wells, desalination, reticulation infrastructure, pick a way not to do it and beat it to death. Why? rain is free and clean enough if sensibly caught and stored - no profit in that.

Why are my reservoirs half buried and tarp shaded? part for pressure mostly for temperature.

But If I had to treat the water - I'd take Bwire's approach.

Kyzine
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#1523
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 1:25 PM

Why on earth are we even discussing water treatment options for Haiti, because in the end we're not going to have one word of input to make how it's implemented in the long run????.....to think otherwise is very wishful thinking. The UN, the Haitian Gov't., the Red Cross, the USAID and our Prez will make that final determination....

I hate to be a spoiler here, but the writing has been on the wall for a long time now. Disagree with me as much as you want, but in the end you'll know I'm correct with this assertion.

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#1524
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 2:24 PM

I have no idea Captain - you're the one with the hundreds of posts after it was raise and solved, and dive in at every mention, or re-raise it in order to.

Kyzine
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#1525
In reply to #1523

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 2:34 PM

CaptMoosie-

You are absolutely right that this discussion is unlikely to have any significant impact on the approach currently being pursued in Haiti. But that does not mean these posts are of little value. There is a lot of information contained herein that can be useful to other situations as well- which is why I am trying to cull the best and consolidate it into a summary document for future reference. There is a goldmine of information here, most of it not motivated by the profit drive. There are some valuable differences of opinion regarding the best approach to various aspects of the issues being faced, provided by those with experience rather than profit motive, and this is the sort of thing that needs to be preserved for posterity. Keep the ideas flowing. Perhaps we can not have the desired effect in Haiti, but hopefully, such discussions can help to inform future disaster relief efforts...
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#1526
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 7:03 PM

UH?? You brought up again...but mainly because of thinking to kill two birds with one stone ie; supplement the Haitians need for iodine and purify water

Thank you for establishing that the #1 choice is chlorine because it's primarily cheaper!

How unfortunate we don't choose healthful reasons...

I'm done now...go back to your old world order where duscussions only if you're interested...

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#1527
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 8:00 PM

Hi Bedubya

It's not easy sometimes, is it. For me it is even harder because I have spent a great deal of time in sewerage plants and know about all aspects of water hygiene there is to know. If I can contribute one day, in an appropriate thread, I will do so.

A thread like this will possibly not happen because the basic principles of water hygiene are known to any 14 year old kid that keeps the pool clean and the neighbors, if he wants some pocket money. Trying to reinvent this wheel is just a complete waste of time.

The finer details of water treatment are well documented and are not even close to being in dispute, anywhere. All and every aspect of water treatment is known and practiced world wide. NGO's could order today and have the equipment next week. I am not sure what all the fuss is about, you are right.

Hope the Bedubya went down the way it was meant. Us Aussies have a weird way of showing good will some times. If you wish, I will not address you like that in the future, it has some connotations you might not like, I know, Ky.

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#1539
In reply to #1527

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/25/2010 2:37 AM

Ya think...

No it's not easy sometimes...throwing out the OWO was meant to draw comments only as I think I do prefere it over what I see coming.

Thanks...

"How We Know What Isn't So" by Thomas Gilovich

2. Tendency to Look for Confirmation – We have a natural tendency to look for "yes" instead of "no." If we have an idea, we tend to look for evidence that confirms our idea, not evidence that will disprove it. This is true even if we have no personal attachment to the idea.

Some researchers believe this tendency results from our need to take an extra neurological step when we try to understand negative or disconfirming evidence, as contrasted with positive or confirming evidence. Every negative proposition may need to be translated into a positive one for us to understand it. Therefore, we subconsciously look for easy positives and not difficult negatives. This tendency makes for bad objectivity and bad science. If we want to do good science, we need to train ourselves to look for negative evidence that contradicts our ideas.

3. Hidden Data – When we search for evidence, often there is data that we unintentionally overlook. For instance, if we get a bad first impression about a person, we may avoid them, and by avoiding them, they never have a chance to show us a better side of their personality. But if we get a good impression, we may decide get to know a person better, and thereby gather more positive data, and falsely confirm in our mind that first impressions are meaningful. Often the way we collect data filters out important types of data, and this causes us to confirm our wrong ideas. We need to pay attention to how we may see only a distorted side of an issue.

4. Mental Corner-Cutting – We all cut corners with our mind. We often use mental strategies – inductive generalizations – to understand the world around us more quickly and easily. These strategies are very useful. But they come at a cost. These corner-cutting strategies can cause systematic errors in our thinking.

The challenge I have for myself is to become more aware of how I am reasoning, and be honest enough to acknowledge the errors I may discover there.

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#1529
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 8:30 PM

Guys,

lets go to the potable water thread as this is now not part of the container thread as we agreed awhile ago...garthh got these going so lets use these threads.

Geoff Daly NH

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#1503
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/23/2010 11:32 PM

A 20 gal drum is going to fill up in a matter of minutes in a typical tropical down-pour. It is not unusual in the tropics to fill completely a cistern of 30,000 gal capacity in four to six hours...As I have reported elsewhere in this blog, I have measured as much as 6 inches of rain fall in about 20 minutes, although this was an extreme example. Normal afternoon showers are 2-4 inches in 2-3 hours. One inch of rain falling on a 400 square foot surface comes to about 250 gallons, which works out to about what a family of five would require per day, assuming a requirement of 200 liters per day per person (which, as we have discussed elsewhere in the blog, is on the very low end of what you can really expect to be consumed, assuming the water is available). Perhaps you should be thinking in terms of a much larger collection container...
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#1506
In reply to #1503

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 2:04 AM

I meant 2000 gal drum 8' dia. x 6' per pod providing potable pill treated rain water storage. This size tank is based on roughly the 50gal water consumption per person per day providing a reservoir source for one day aside from the main supply in the encampment for showers, lavatories, laundry, washing, etc. Toilet water use may not be an issue if we go with similar technology as the potter potty.

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#1507
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 2:12 AM

much better

on another completely different note.. I've just been browsing around the internet for related things.. so here are more links of interest (and photos)

shipping container wheels
http://mpxtow.com/images/bogies_051.jpg

air transportable mobile clean room lab made from shipping container w wheels
http://www.germfree.com/mobile/trailers/

containers in a hillside
http://equitygreen.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/17/container.jpg

container casters
http://www.chassisking.com/products/parts/container-casters/

container designs
http://www.zigloo.ca/index

I'm almost at 100 GA.. so don't forget to rate if you think this is valuable.
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#1509
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 2:14 AM

2000 sounds better than 20
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#1530
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 8:33 PM

gcare2000,

there's another point that has not been mentioned here to my knowledge that you have, and that is laundry. requires hot water yes? or do people in the tropics use coldwater Tide?

what about a solar clothes dryer? probably just have clotheslines right?

at anyrate, a laundromat in a container is a great idea for a community.

Chris
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#1537
In reply to #1530

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 10:57 PM

Chris,

lets design something and offer to P&G to be built by them for Haiti, P&G have an ad for a portable washing rig. Just like thy did for Katrina...is a big Tide truck assy...lets do it with a series of containers, solar/wind powered (make it 48VDC powered and not necessarily AC), gray water catching, slow sand type filters and a clarification unit, water heating in a large black painted container...only for washing clothes, a solar dryer system or a large rotary clothes line on top of the containers, just like you see clothes being moved around in a dry cleaners...conveyor type, irning of the clothes with solar heated irons using solar ovens (just like they used in the old days but placed on the old cast iron stoves).

All sustainable and Eco friendly.

Anyone up for this?

Geoff Daly NH

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#1538
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/25/2010 1:31 AM

Sounds great to me Geoff!

I poked around a bit... looking for tide graphics and other inspirations. (water tanks)

you could use a spiral culvert for a wash tub. (or beer vat)

and then I came across some other random container or thread discussion related items...

http://www.carfree.com/block.html
http://www.culvertdesign.com/HomePage.php
http://containerist.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEZmUYzWPM4

http://sanyo.com/news/2010/01/12-1.html

this is a container that grows stuff... I was thining about a hydroponic container the other day... this one has racks and lights. but this one is made by others.

will think about it some more.

Chris
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#1541
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/25/2010 2:55 AM

I exchanged emails with Terry Herb from the Containerist.com. invited him to visit.. hopefully he will. I also found this link on his site, quoting a price of 15,000$US for a livable container home.

Chris
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#1542
In reply to #1541

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/25/2010 3:09 AM

Ah wow memories of the year living in a 8' x 50' mobile mansion boy-howdy! It was a dandy during it's time a true trailer house replete with double wall side walls a whole half inch of atmosphere between. But it was fine...two bdrs too

Great contact and purposeful mission intent.

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#1546
In reply to #1538

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/25/2010 9:20 AM

Hmmmmmm...beer vat, eh? Haiti may not need one, but we, on the other hand,....

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#1540
In reply to #1530

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/25/2010 2:45 AM

laundry. requires hot water yes?

Only if you leave out detergent , no water doesn't need heating to act the solvent for clothes washing etc..

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#1543
In reply to #1540

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/25/2010 3:59 AM

May I add it's a probably 300C+ ambient and leaving the tub in the sun would likely add 15, so about 45 C = 113 F = near enough 'hot wash' on most domestic machines.

And you can water plants or flush toilets with used water.

So investment required = bucket or tub - preferably metal for UV life.

consumables = soap = fat and ash

Cost per load ? cents?

And the amortization and running cost of the First World Laundromat Machine Are?

Kyzine
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#1545
In reply to #1543

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/25/2010 6:29 AM

India's "Wash Wallahs" get pristine whites from cold muddy water

Stu.

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#1544
In reply to #1530

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/25/2010 6:25 AM

Haven't used hot water in the laundry for at least 20 years.

A little surfactant and detergent is all that's needed.

Or, of course a proprietary brand of laundry liquid/powder.

Stu

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#1563
In reply to #1530

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/29/2010 10:28 PM

Maybe use of this tool could help the concept... http://www.surveymonkey.com/ ...What do you think?

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#1510
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/24/2010 2:20 AM

I agree. It is not raining every day for sure. Sometimes not even for weeks. Massive reservoirs are needed. You have examples: tanks (even concrete)on the roof (in the sun) of 1000 to 2000 liter for 1 house. (also in Cuba)

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#1580
In reply to #1490

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/31/2010 1:46 PM

Hi Gcare2000,

With regards to the design of your community, my thinking about the perimeter walls is that while it does protect the people from outside invaders, assuming that is the reason for it, that it equally provides for military or other aggressive groups to capture and control the camp by simply capturing the few gates, and placing the camp in a siege state. For this reason I suggest multiplying the number of gates significantly, and arranging them in such a way as to make them able to be captured and controlled easily by those inside the camp, and easily defended against external entities. If I were a resident, the last thing i would want would be being caged in a camp that becomes a gulag or terror camp.

Here is a sample of a (I think) defensible wall system. (I'm no military strategist) The first thing to note is that for every small opening, the insiders have two openings, so twice the opportunity to control invaders, while the invader only has one opening, and can get hit from two sides. (assuming an equal number of defenders and invaders.

The main gate has a heavy blockage in front, so it can not be rammed to get through.. even a tank will only push the block and close the opening, leaving heavy tank and artillery fire as the only method.

the main gate is also tilted towards the defender, giving more and better vantage points and fire corridors. Assuming equal numbers, and some vigilance, and equal weaponry, invaders should not get in easily. If the exterior perimeter is cleared of cover, then most of the advantage should be in the hands of the defenders for small arms engagements. Also, the permeter has many openings so that it takes a lot of men to control every opening, so it is not a prison (as much) for the defenders.

I know that we shouldn't normally find it germane to talk about such things, and this is just a conversation and suggestion, but sometimes, in places in the third world, there are a lot of arms and aggression.. I simply seek to protect the innocent, and allow them every opportunity to protect themselves. As in the movie Blood Diamond, I hated seeing caged refugees controlled by military forces.. thats just me. Let freedom ring. It's the golden rule.

I'm posting this to CR4, because open discussion is a good way of getting a varied opinions on issues such as this, and sometimes people with personal experience can really enlighten. I trust and hope that you don't mind.

Respectfully,

Chris
ps. CaptMoosie, Geoff, CW, et al, anyone with military training, I appreciate your input.
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#1582
In reply to #1580

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/31/2010 2:16 PM

Chris,

Point taken and I thought Garfield would have let everybody know there is an idea using several of your tower ideas for Solar/Wind generation and security lighting in the corners and several places

The outer ring would have the exterior walls modified/removed and these would become the shops-market stalls- warehouse/storage for the community. Even setting up small dress/clothes making etc, barber shops....reduces the gulag effect, but still not perfect....better than now as we have all seen. All garbage go into the composting/Methane digestor so keeps the area somewhat cleaner..make jobs for garbage pick-up as part of the community effort (paid of course)

Then on the roof which would have supports from below, becomes a communal box type garden with captured rain water from one of the veritical containers to draw from.

Again the initial drawings were to show what can be done for a secure safe environment...several of your concepts would also work and I believe Garfield sees this as well...the neuron idea ( he has skype Garfield Carey)..has meet with Richard Martin recently and Richard likes the Neuron concept.

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#1586
In reply to #1580

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/31/2010 7:58 PM

Quite frankly, Chris, in the third world, one is looking more fro protection against gangsters, house-breakers, and other small-time operators, not major invading forces. The wealthy generally live in gated communities, which are designed to keep criminals out, but would have little impact on preventing the compound from being over-run by armed forces. The poor are subjected to robberies, burglaries, auto theft, etc. One should not think in terms of fighting off large armies, but rather in controlling ingress/egress through portals that can be easily monitored. High walls don't serve, unless they are topped with broken glass or razor wire. A single armed guard on a swinging gate is all you need...
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#1588
In reply to #1580

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti -security

03/31/2010 8:25 PM

I've posted the below message at the request of Larry Morrow

Hi Chris,

Garfield and I work together as I am the CTO of GlobalCon. Not that it means I lead, just that I am stuck with the results if a technical solution does NOT work. J

Let me address the perimeter as it is laid out and why. Feel free to post on CR4 as although I am a member, I haven't yet got the hang it.

The perimeter was designed as it is with fewer access points mostly to channel people in and out and control (bad word) monitor who is in the site. One of the challenges in this type of relief effort is the very smart cookies who register themselves multiple times to gain more free stuff that can then be sold on the black market.

Although security is a concern, too many exit points means if a crime is committed inside we have to watch too many exit points to catch the bad person before they get away.

The third item is that security cost money and we will have an integrated group providing security. Police 2 per site, military 4-6 per site and private guards up to 20 per site. The number of entrances are carefully counted based on the shifts, responsibilities and 3 items listed above.

I like your concept once there is a working set of prisons in Haiti as all the ones they had fell down and all the prisoners escaped. We have a triple redundant security and communication system that is connected to each of the security force participants listed above. We call for the calvary in the case of a siege (typically the military). WE have enough firepower within to hold out 2-3 days based on current design.

I will be reading everybody's comments as this is NOT intended to be a military encampment just to use certain military based features for protection. During the day, most anybody can go in and out, but during the night things are bit tighter to give the residents a better sense of security.

Before you ask, yes I am former military. 24 years to be exact. Security and intelligence specialist.

Warmest Regards,

Larry
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#1589
In reply to #1588

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti -security

03/31/2010 8:58 PM

Dear Larry,

I don't think technical solutions are the main problem in Haiti. I think they have problems directly related to issues of law, and government, and culture for which technology cannot provide adequate answers.

When I was a Security Guard for Rochdale College I encountered corruption within the Force, and nearly got killed over my campaign against it. Without being in Haiti and seeing for myself who is doing what where, and who has real control of the land and laws, it is simply unrealistic to do more than say, Shipping Containers will make strong buildings.

Many a time I found pipes stuck in the back door of the building I was trying to protect from certain people. Onetime I found an arm around my neck as a result, and had to use words and wit to not be killed. "Hey, you're strong, you need to see the bootlegger?"

Aristide still has support in Cite Soleil. From my read if he and Bill Clinton and Bush were on the same team it would make a difference. - Not likely since Aristide blames Nafta and Cafta and reparations demanded long ago by the French.

You want to build prisons? Give me a break. Build some schools and secure them.

As said, I'd have to be there to really do much, other than say from here Shipping Containers are cheap, and strong and better than tents.

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#1590
In reply to #1589

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti -security

03/31/2010 9:11 PM

Just to say, you are right, Trans. I have been in Europe for half of my life, and in the Caribbean life is just totally different, with different values.... a bit little Africa, like Liberia my third fatherland. These people have nothing, compared to what we are spoiled with. As a good reminder a GA.

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#1592
In reply to #1588

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti -security

03/31/2010 9:27 PM

Thanks Garthh, I'm still pondering that one... It's obviously a deep subject, and as I said before, I wanted to tip the scales in favour of the innocent. I now see it as a more complicated issue, and design is dependent upon the dynamics experienced in a given eco-political situation. So I have probably done my bit by giving it a poke. If anything else occurs to me, I'll post to it.

Thank you Larry for the orientation to a larger reality.

Chris
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#1591
In reply to #1580

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/31/2010 9:12 PM

Chris, containers are not bullet resistant, they just inhibit target visibility. To do any good against a concerted armed attack they would have to be armoured, sand-bagged or dirt filled. As would the average timber house.

Besides, the "village defence" is about casual over immigration during the "have not phase" of roll out. It is about anti theft of such as water and fuel. Exclusion of vermin. And all that is also about building a "community" attitude of 'can do' group by group.

Militarily, nothing is defensible. An 8 foot high tin box is not much of an obstacle. But equally on "getting trapped" not much of an barrier to leaving.

You would need at least a platoon to lock down such as my Roman Courtyard 24/7 - but why would you bother? There are no assets, and in turn, it is small arms transparent. At best you could use the population as human shields, until the guys with a bit of stealth training arrived, meanwhile you are severely out-numbered.

I can't see the point in blowing up resistance to petty crime, that wants to be slightly above that of a western world suburb, into a warfare scenario and solution.

In that context containers are about as useful as tents.

Lost it seems, in this whole new "distraction" is the system needs to be simple to roll out with any speed. Adding bells and whistles will make it slower - that will breed the problems, hardening against those problems will slow it further, and........

It is as much a PR exercise as a building one. You need a seen to be fair method of allocation of residency and active interaction with all to head off 'resorting to force'.

You are not building the Hilton, you are getting people out of the mud and squalor into a basic shelter they can make home. "Pretty pictures" do however raise funding, but that secured you have to fall back to the KISS approach.

If not the pretty ones will just end up looking like a heap of sandbags, because you have over focused assets and created the disparity that nurtures resorting to force.
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#1593
In reply to #1591

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/01/2010 12:20 AM

Kyz and Trans,

I'm thinking along those lines also. GA to both.

In commenting on the drawings put forward by others, I hope I haven't been seen as one who needs to complicate the 'first move' action, and that is to just get steel boxes, which are surplus to others on the planet, to Haiti and other trouble spots, so that people can shelter/live in them 'till the plan gets sorted a bit more.

I'm a lifelong, avid practitioner of KISS.

But, to those who will detract from the pictorial iterations showing a little flair and style in the architecture, I say, let it be. Someone may see them and gain some aspiration.

As expressed by someone else, I too would be entirely happy living in recycled shipping containers, particularly as I could add the personal intangible of 'style and flair", to the engineering.

I encourage others to follow. Stu.

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#1583
In reply to #1490

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/31/2010 6:04 PM

All,

this was in response to an offline email with Garfield... I'm posting here for discussion. Specifically, are there any more ideas how to handle hillside installations? When that hillside land is cleared and becomes available, I'm sure that construction will occur there, and that we may as well put our best foot forward regardless of soil conditions.. It is just reality. Also Clarence is looking for more ideas regarding (or a summary of) sewer treatment or power supply or food storage/refrigeration or a program for moving from disaster to sustainable community."

Not being an engineer, its just my job to stir the pot..
***************************************************************

Hi Garfield,

I have participated in building a wooden bridge for a small river before... it used logs dovetailed together and filled with rock to built a triangular pier in the middle of the river, and then stringers etc for the bridge span.. of course the banks had rock filled retaining walls too.. all done with a chainsaw and big spikes.. it could carry a small tractor when done, which was the target vehicle, as the river was in the middle of a 400 acre farm. It took the 2 of us most of the summer to get the job done.

At any rate, containers can be used to build a bridge for a small river that is similar. 2 x 10 foot containers for a central pier. One of those will be split longitudinally, and used to make the nose and tail.. welded to the other container, and everything filled with rock for ballast, and also an embankment will help keep subsurface erosion at bay. Please excuse the quick sketches. (img001.jpg & img002.jpg) I hope the sketches make sense.... they are quick and dirty concepts.

Also, there is another idea floating round my head, that can be used to dampen energy affecting the containers in a quake, so I'll just throw it out there.. It is simply to use old used tires under the container (4-6) and 1 on each side between the containers. I would recommend then filling interstitial spaces with earth or aggregate embankment to mitigate the effects of wind getting under the containers. It will also help keep the pests, rodents, or snakes away, depending on what kind of varmints are there.. (img003.jpg)

"For example, I haven't seen presented solutions with preparation shown for a site with creeks, rivers, hills and valleys or sewer treatment or power supply or food storage/refrigeration or a program for moving from disaster to sustainable community."

These things have been discussed on the CR4 'container' thread, except for a detailed transition plan, I suppose due to the lack of traction that members of cr4 have felt. They are not traditionally an action oriented body, and this 'container' thread represents one of, if not the only thread that has turned into something larger than itself. I will forward existing and other ideas over the next few days to assist in your accumulation of potential measures and methods. Most of the hillside ideas met with criticism that tended to defeat their implementation, due to ground conditions and the potential for mudslides etc. Those recommendations focused on flat ground camps to help prevent further humanitarian calamities, as I understood them.

Cheers,
Chris

ps.. I'm not sure what SIP is?

Chris
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#1584
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

03/31/2010 6:37 PM

http://images.travelpod.com/users/tarik/ethiopia-2005.1111707000.container-bridge.jpg

http://www.enviromodular-shelters.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/container-as-bridge.JPG

Browse this site for a bunch of bridges, housing designs and links.

http://www.enviromodular-shelters.com/id82.html

Chris
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#1610
In reply to #1584

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

04/02/2010 10:54 AM

Chris,

pretty cool use of a container for a bridge, especially as the majority of streams are not too wide but can be gullied by flooding rains. So a 40 footer can ensure passage of vehicles easily....need maybe to place an abutment up and down stream to reduce erosion effects.

Consider maybe using a flat rack instead for wider trucks/loads by placing two side by side.

Good ideas again

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#1611
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

04/02/2010 6:58 PM

On second thought, you don't need to build piers, because there is no ice in Haiti to take the bridge in the spring.. so you can use the containers as square culverts basically. with the flow straight through there should be very little subsurface erosion.

Here also is a multilevel version of the Neuron plan.. solar arrays, water barrels, bbq's, small fruit and vegetable patches, and replanted trees. the vertical vent containers can also double as elevators. there can be internal pull-down ladders. etc. I've also added bwire's skylights. I will send out large version if I have your email addresses.

Chris
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#1612
In reply to #1611

Re: Shipping Container Housing - Haiti - GlobalCon Holdings Sustainable Disaster

04/02/2010 7:26 PM

Like it.

I am curious if anybody has any pictures of US Military Shipping Container Conversions? Funny in how in all of this, we've not seen any of those things. I heard on the radio the other day that stuff was getting moved from Iraq to Afghanistan, or thrown away. Converted to living spaces shipping containers were mentioned in the materiel` lists.

Is Ky going to Hong Kong to seize abandoned ships?

Will GlobalCon get a contract to build fine new prisons in Haiti?

Will the UN platten International Property Law to real estate conflicts in Haiti?

Will the French pay reparations back, paid, after hangings and stabbings?

Will the CIA put a man on the ground?

Will Haiti and Louisiana become Sister States?

Tune in tomorrow, Haiti World the Soap Opera continues.

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