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spacecannon
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Shipping Container Housing

01/16/2010 12:05 PM

I have a civil engineer friend whoose dream it is to design and build shipping container housing for general use and for emergency use, like an instant city for Haiti. Im trying to motivate him to live his dream, so what does everyone think about container housing?

spacecannon

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chrisg288
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#1899
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/30/2010 12:34 AM

Yes, but there is that other factor... drug trade. So long as pot is illegal, growing it will lead to criminal activities. Even if it were to be legal in Haiti, it would still give rise to drug lords controlling empires with criminal behaviour, and running afoul of other countries laws.

People don't smoke their own product when growing rubber, and as said, it is a good cash crop, with a huge market in north america. It should at least be considered as a partial solution. Is Hemp legal in Haiti?

I'm going to take a left turn here, and jump back to a previous conversation with our distinguished guest Kyzine, and the 'efficiency ratio' of aid organizations.

It occurs to me that there is a very simple way to approach 100% efficiency. This may be simplistic, but if the money were given directly to all affected individuals in the country in need, then they could subsequently represent a huge market, for which free enterprising companies around the world can openly compete to fulfill the needs.

Presumeably, with the current aid system, and the 3% of aid that is actually effective on the ground, the other 97% goes to corporate and ngo bloat. Of course if one gave the money to the affected individuals, there will be some increase in robbery, and of course, people not being culturally and contextually trained in personal financial management, will not spend wisely. However, they simply can not do any worse at providing for their own life needs than the 97% waste Kyzine mentioned. (I don't know what the actual numbers are)

Imagine the following scenario. A country like Haiti, with a population of 10 million people. A catastrophe arises such as the the January quake, and in the months that follow, lets say that 1 Billion dollars is raised to aid that country. If all that money was distributed to every registered citizen of that country on an equal basis, then each person would receive 100$

Now this does not seem like much money, but it will buy a great deal more than the tremendous waste that the current system engenders. it wouldnt' be that hard to set up. A banking system issues each citizen a bank card, per account, with the hundred dollars in it, and then companies from across the world can come and build storefronts, even if virtual computerized purchasing centers, and the citizens can purchase their needs. The organizations providing food can now distribute food on a per purchase basis, and citizens can purchase food based on their needs and income.

At the very least, I imagine that this system would be much more efficient at restarting the economic engines that will sustain that country. In the case of a catastrophe within a region of a country like the US, (ie Hurricane Katrina), then the same approach would produce a massive and immediate impact in both rescuing stranded people, and in rebuilding their life.

If everyone knew that a billion dollars was deposited on day One of the hurricane disaster, then I suspect that thousands of corporations, and millions of people would have been mobilizing to the rescue, because of the brand new billion dollar market! I don't mean to suggest that people are without value before the money, but that they now have 1 billion dollars of motivating power they didn't have before. It is simply a lever. a tool to get the job done, and is based on reality. Obviously, insufficient efforts happen with methods applied so far.

We can do no worse I think than the current methods, AND, we get the Aid and economic decision making out of the hands of the Few, which is where the real corruption is happening.

What say you? Yea or Nay

Chris
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chrisg288
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#1900
In reply to #1899

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/30/2010 1:49 AM

Well in this case, my girlfriend provided me with an eye-opening answer, when I explained my thoughts just after posting the above. She promptly informed me that FEMA had issued debit cards during the Katrina catastrophe, which led to some abuses market variances, on both customer and provider sides of the fence. In this article, it says that FEMA provided some 10,000 cards with 2000$ each to afflicted citizens. (which apparently didn't work but direct bank deposit did?)

You know when you meet beautiful women and tell them that they are smart and knowledgeable... and then some day in the future during your journey together, they actually prove it to you in little ways... Who knew?

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#1901
In reply to #1900

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/30/2010 2:06 AM

Is that the sound of sucking I hear in the far distance. She does read this, doesn't she?

Me bad

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chrisg288
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#1902
In reply to #1901

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/30/2010 3:08 AM

yes, I'm afraid it is a necessary component of male-female relationships.

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ky
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#1908
In reply to #1902

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/30/2010 7:58 PM

G'day Chris

When you get here one day, you never know, I will introduce you to my daughter in law. I am sure you will leave the necessary out of the equation. With out her I would not have two grand children, so I do suck up, all in good humor.

Wish you were here, Ky.

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#1904
In reply to #1899

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/30/2010 9:26 AM

Whoa up there pilgrim,

Let's take a u-turn and recognize a distinction of varieties and discerning characteristics—Cannabis sativa L. subsp. sativa var. sativa is the variety grown for industrial use, while C. sativa subsp. indica generally has poor fibre quality and is primarily used for production of recreational and medicinal drugs. The major difference between the two types of plants is the appearance and the amount of Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) secreted in a resinous mixture by epidermal hairs called glandular trichomes, although they can also be distinguished genetically.[11] Strains of Cannabis approved for industrial hemp production produce only minute amounts of this psychoactive drug, not enough for any physical or psychological effects. Typically, hemp contains below 0.3% THC, while Cannabis grown for marijuana can contain anywhere from 6 to over 20%.[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp

Yes there's always the criminal element to consider and what's to eliminate growing of Cannabis sativa subsp. indica in the rubber plantations??

Possibly the point missed was that seeds of the commercial hemp variety—Cannabis sativa L. subsp. sativa var. sativa—are hemp seeds containing all the essential amino acids and essential fatty acids necessary to maintain healthy human life.[15

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chrisg288
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#1905
In reply to #1904

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/30/2010 12:16 PM

With that stipulation on lower drug capacity, I have no further objections, and think that the array of benefits make Hemp an good choice. (As for 'Pilgrim' I think that a pair of brothers who were ancestors of mine got off the Mayflower together. One stayed in the US and founded the Gorham silver company. The other came north to Canada.)

Chris
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#1909
In reply to #1905

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/30/2010 8:49 PM

Any kind of mono crop is going to be a bad plan

reintroducing as many of the native plants as possible, would seem to have the best chance of success.

emigration, territory status is politically a non starter in this country

Charity is a handout not a leg up....

the defacto slave status dates back several 100 years, what's going to be in it for the slave holders to change this? They're going to want to be compensated for what they would consider a loss, being the ruling class are not going to go quietly
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#1910
In reply to #1909

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/30/2010 9:16 PM

It's hardball. People get hurt.

The US Civil War is more a part of my life than I wanted it to be. I'm also a child of the Irish starvation. Tried long to avoid war, and last declared was on asteroids.

Is war in Haiti justified? Lincoln said, "If slavery isn't wrong, what is?"

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chrisg288
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#1911
In reply to #1909

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/30/2010 9:23 PM

Garthh,

I agree with you about the mono cropping and most other things, but with respect to the charity statement, I find that to really stimuate a sustainable recovery, a more comprehensive systemic view of money and value has to be developed. Here is my view.

Charity (the donation of money/value) is only one aspect. Money never sits still. It is more like 'holes' in an atomic matrix, or holes in a game of chinese checkers. While value flows in one direction, money flows in the reverse direction. (mostly)

After the charity money has been donated, and the recipients start to spend, then the value flows towards those people, as the money leaves. If they are wise with the value they receive, then they can develop a sustainable cycle.

If the things that are purchased are non-consumable, and hold their value (such as tools, books, vehicles, shipping containers), then those things can help stimulate growth. If all the money does is buy food, and that is eaten, then that creates fertilizer, (at least ) and energy to work. (hopefully)

another part of the algorithm is the use of natural resources (energy, water, metals, lumber, seeds, etc.) and their conversion into life sustaining materials (food, shelter, clothing, etc) and marketable products for export.

I guess what I'm saying is that we should recommend methods of improving the efficiency of aid dollars (charity) and recommend methods of creating a sustainable economy; and detailing specifically how to go about bootstrapping this process.

In the natural world, energy can not be created nor destroyed. Similarly, the capital to resuscitate the Haitian capital had to come from somewhere else. (or millions die)

I am much more concerned with efficiency of the aid dollars than I am with whether it is a handout. This money does not stop there. It will go on and do other things. People give because of the feeling of compassion in their hearts. There is a return, although it may not be profit or interest.

Chris
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#1920
In reply to #1911

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/02/2010 9:41 PM

the intention does matter

even if you pay the hungry for standing in line

there is a difference.

the real problem with increasing the efficiency of the aid dollars

is the typical method is to add another layer of bureaucracy
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#1912
In reply to #1909

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/02/2010 6:19 AM

Any kind of mono crop is going to be a bad plan

The solution is crop rotation with sugar beets or tropical maize, etc...

reintroducing as many of the native plants as possible, would seem to have the best chance of success.

What worked well once often doesn't repeat well

They're going to want to be compensated for what they would consider a loss, being the ruling class are not going to go quietly

Appealing to their greed is the tried an true method

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#1913
In reply to #1912

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/02/2010 1:38 PM

What successful precedents have there been for situations such as exist in Haiti?

I've identified two somewhat similar events in history, those being Ireland and Puerto Rico. In both cases emigration primarily to the US was a required response for many. The US and Louisiana response to Katrina resulted in "evacuation", and so far as I know, a halving of the population in New Orleans. Halving of the population of Ireland prior to the Starvation, or what is called the Potato Famine is the case to this day since that starvation. Essentially Haiti appears to me to be an island prison for Haitians. From some of the stories I've been told I am certainly reminded of prison stories common on channels dependent on "Reality TV", such as the History Channel.

Every engineer or rational person has to face the numbers.

We both want politicians who will face the numbers, and hate them when they do.

The US and the UN and other nations are apparently shipping in food, shipping in water, shipping in medicines and doctors, shipping in soldiers, and peacekeepers. Might as well call them prison guards.

I do go so far as to wonder how the Vatican spends their money there. I wonder how much influence it has had over what appears to be a high birth rate unsustainable for the reality of the land. In the past I've said that I'd have more respect for Vatican Policies if they were putting money up for colonization of Mars and Venus, since they sure act as if we had three planets to live on, instead of one fragile Earth.

You know I really don't want to insult any particular religious belief, but when they are "Institutions", such as the Vatican, which has a seat at the UN much like a nation, I don't think it is out of order to criticize the policies of that institution. To encourage policies that lead to disaster by anyone, nation, or institution simply because you belong, or they claim God said so, is unethical.

I simply do not see how Haiti can grow enough of anything to sustain and build a sustainable economy with what they have. I don't see any high tech industry on the horizon, nor do I see tourism taking off anytime soon.

Evacuation, is called for, no matter what great science, products, or politics we might know of.

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#1914
In reply to #1913

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/02/2010 2:14 PM

What about Germany post WWII?

Many cities bombed into oblivion. Millions of people annihilated (mostly men). industrial capacity reduced to a minimum. a history of violence. the shame of the world heaped upon them.

Now they outpace the USA in exports. 40% of it comes from small business & entrepreneur. Innovation is a way of life, fostered by the government.

Chris
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#1915
In reply to #1914

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/02/2010 2:55 PM

That was part of my reasoning in previous posts where I suggested softening them up with airstrikes, so that they would be more receptive to servicing by the USACE and inclusion in our benevolent, co-prosperity sphere..

I haven't consulted my " Boy's Handbook of Big Adventures and World Almanac", but as I recall, Germany had a little bit a' that industry and technology stuff before flattening.

Haiti? Not so much.
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#1916
In reply to #1915

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/02/2010 3:03 PM

too funny! lol

yes certainly germany was a knowledge center, and certainly some of that remained. Just the same, should Haiti wish for the knowledge of how to do anything... I don't think they will suffer for lack of know-how.

they need water, food, shelter, and peace. and some leadership to set goals.

Chris
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#1917
In reply to #1914

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/02/2010 4:18 PM

The significance of the US Constabulary Service in relation to the current strength of Germany, is an event, and institution I have mentioned before. The destruction of the US Constabulary Service is one of those small things that is much bigger than recognized. Mostly in the past I have argued that had the US Constabulary Service been put to work in Iraq, when the Iraqi military had been defeated, as was the case in Germany after the defeat of its armed forces, we all would be better off.

The French name for such a force institution, which they invented, is gendarmes. A US Territorial equal was the Texas Rangers.

There must be some flaw about the French way of doing things, and their colonial legacy we need to identify, for Mali is real poor too.

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#1919
In reply to #1914

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/02/2010 6:16 PM

Now that is a very long story Chris. I think the main difference is that the Germans never had a slave mind set. Were I come from (Schleswig Hoslstein) we have a saying:

"Lever dod als sklave" which translates to "Rather dead than a slave."

My Dad went to Australia which was a good idea. Except for being beat up (or at least they tried) as Nazis in school, I'm over it.

Like I said its a long story, Ky.

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#1918
In reply to #1913

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/02/2010 5:27 PM

I thought the Vatican is a state, in Italy, Like Monaco in France, but smaller. The Catholic Church is a different story. They have no seat in the UN. Representing the religion cannot be the case. My opinion.

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#1937
In reply to #1913

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/18/2010 12:21 AM

You're quite lite when the subject of agriculture comes around aren't you?

Yes there are many mouths on Haiti but while we are collectively subsidizing them they can work in fields and improve the standard of living and get the ball rolling both for themselves individually and collectively as a nation.

Famines have occurred many times down through history and in Haiti one may have the choice between betterment or subsistence if jobs are created and field work jobs would be enough initially.

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#1938
In reply to #1937

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/18/2010 12:56 AM

Good point- IF Haiti has any soil left that is tillable, and IF you can keep the northern neighbor from dumping excess agricultural produce at prices cheaper than can be produced locally (i.e., cheap American rice destroying the local rice industry...)
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#1939
In reply to #1938

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/18/2010 1:13 AM

Would be nice to fix the irrigation system.

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#1940
In reply to #1938

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/20/2010 3:34 AM

Agreed but rice Will pale in comparision to locally produced and harvested hemp seed which buy the way not only filling as is rice it's a staple of a nutricious diet too. They wouldn't need rice...and thumbing their nose at the US on this wouldn't hurt their 'esprit de corps'...

I burned myself tonight while preparing my favorite chili rescipe and I am possibly a little stoked please forgive spelling and other stuff

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#1941
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/20/2010 6:00 AM

Yep - bloody frustrating when people refuse to take on information and / or bend it to self gain, kudos, contracts, spurious issues, supporting wanna-be impotent factions, bagging the "effective", and possible "competition", applauding half baked solutions (though obviously they will fail in the next hurricane), anything but addressing victim, for fear another Nation (or person with the same "me, me, me " attitude) might gain.

But - hey - that's the American way!

I understand.

And I so understand you, "possibly a little stoked", being - 1 in 307,006,550 - (Jul 2009 Source: U.S. Census Bureau, Population Division)

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#1942
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/20/2010 6:26 AM

Quite...thank you...

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#1906
In reply to #1904

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/30/2010 7:30 PM

Wasn't exactly missed, but more like semi dismissed. The island doesn't have food independence, water independence, or energy independence. What do the other islands do around there? I've no objection against hemp, for rope, or smoke, and neither do I object to rubber plants. I just don't know really what Haitians can do with their available resources with their numbers, and education levels to compete from where they are, in the shortest amount of time. Seems like there are too many people there for the resources. It has been back some that I have compared Puerto Rico, and Ireland events, and can't see solutions for Haiti that can be other than the solutions for the Irish, or the Puerto Ricans.

Even if the US and Haiti legalized recreational hemp, Haiti could hardly be expected to even grow more valuable get you high stuff than those in their markets. Say even rope and textile hemp was grown there, what's the income Haitians might expect, if 20 percent of its farmable land was put to that?

Tourism and Education, are Haiti's best bets.

There may be value added work that could be one there in growth industries, that aren't very complicated. One uncomplicated growth sector is continuously toys, as we can expect more children. Next Xmas be sure and buy the Voudun Haiti Dolls, or Icons. Buy Coloring Books from Haitian School Children made on Hemp paper!

I just had this idea of selling original books made by Haitian school children, as a source of income that would help them stay in school.

They would need to be supplied with standard paper tablets and given the art supplies to draw with. Sales of the Coloring Books from Haitian children would be interesting works of art, and have a sympathy market boost, plus something positive and better than bad news and squashed hopes.

Course someone will shoot this idea down as exploitative of child labor, and against some law, requiring color copiers be installed so mommy and daddy get to keep the originals for the playbox and the refrigerator.

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#1907
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/30/2010 7:43 PM

Have a look at this.

http://www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter,nsf/WebPages/TTAR-5R86BK?open

Like I said the synthetic fiber industry has a lot to answer for. If it can be done in Tasmania it could be done in Haiti. What ever one does it will attract some baddies. Stop the world I need to get off, Ky.

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#1927
In reply to #1904

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/05/2010 8:10 PM

Bwire,

been away for a couple of weeks so catching up a bit.

Your point on HEMP is correct as has been shown by a variety of nations who do grow the non smoking variety, so far have not really experienced the criminal element slidding in the other variety.

The finished Hemp has a tremendous and variable use just like Jute from the Indian Bark tree. We had a variety of jungle warfare uniforms made from a very fine fiber for shirts/underwear and thicker one for our tactical trousers/jackets...virtually indestructable and light/cool to wear (could even be printed to a camo pattern and it was reversible.....try that with the new uniforms)

Now as far as plantings, crop rotation, soil quality, here you only have to look at what grows freely, now in Haiti: Jotropha is a wild growing renewable energy source bush/tree from which you can obtain Biodiesel, and make char bricks from the left overs and is plentiful throuhout the Island. Plant in the same area the Hemp trees and they can provide extra coverage and nutrients to the Jotropha...the farmer then has two sources of income throughout the year.

Set up a full area co-operative for the farmers to be part of and will also keep the "naughty guys" away; through safety in numbers if organized properly ...maybe use Mr. Big the Local head honcho to be involved for a small cut (like protection money shop keepers paid in NY in the old days). Yes, Hemp seeds are good to munch on as a snack and nutrtious as well.

Mangos and Paya's are sometimes rotatd with the Banana crop they grow, with sugar cane being separate on the low lands around towns like Leogane and Gonvaise. Where other vegetable crops are grown....rice was a big crop till the US started to subsidize rice from the mainland US and drove the locals out of business..could not compete.

So Hemp growing is very viable as it also assists there clothing/textile industry...try a Hemp woven shirt or jacket, light and cool.

Could also set up a wall paper type industry, so they could make tapestry type wall coverings for there converted container shelters, awnings , curtains etc.

Geoff NH

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#1928
In reply to #1927

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/05/2010 9:32 PM

Solid comments Geoff and well researched. I am not sure if this

"Mangos and Paya's are sometimes rotatd with the Banana crop they grow,"

Mangos can't be rotated, unless they have a variety there, which grows as a bush. I don't think so. Here they are trees and rotating them is not advised, it would kill them.

I know of the wearing qualities of hemp but the price and design of most don't fit my budget or taste. We run around like half dressed slobs here, when we are in private, so no big loss. Its winter soon here and it can get get as cold as +20C during the day. Time to get my self a pair of long hemp trousers.

Just sayin, Ky.

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#1929
In reply to #1927

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/06/2010 8:57 AM

So what would the decay rate be for fabric in the direct sun?

resistance to fungus

I am thinking about shade cloth or catchment for rain
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#1930
In reply to #1929

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/06/2010 10:28 AM

I imagine the best way to illustrate this is in the days of sail, sail were made of cannabis, voyages lasted years and sails lasted many voyages.
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#1931
In reply to #1929

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/08/2010 11:49 AM

It is true according to my knowledge that Hemp rope is great stuff.

What they have been growing in Haiti, as a new thing was bamboo, as mentioned earlier. From what I can tell bamboo for Haiti is a good idea, already going there. Leastways they can't turn it into charcoal which as a practice has turned the nation of Haiti into a wasteland.

If the rest of the world is addicted to oil, Haiti seems addicted to charcoal. The implications are frightening.

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#1921

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/03/2010 12:41 AM

Sorry, I got a bit behind, so this is a catchup from 1890

Chris, "waste" of aid is driven by several things, mostly the 'contracts' and administration system spending 'elsewhere to the zone' - because there is nothing that can be bought in the zone. If there was then they wouldn't need aid. More efficient would be to purchase direct from the zone, using the funds to get what you actually want, in better time frames - but who can you trust with that kinda cash?

If you give everyone cash or tokens or stamps, instantly you create massive inflation against what is available for purchase in an "empty market place", black market, gangs, greater desperation, higher corruption.....

Ky - 1898 you have uncovered the basic problem of why Haiti was "wrecked pre-quake". US trade restrictions. To an extent, if the Aid donations were spent bribing lobbing in Washington, to lift the quotas, Haiti could thrive.

Crops; industrial cannabis is a high end "green fashion" fabric. It suits poor soil and the warmer altitudes in Haiti. Bwire has listed other major benefits. 1911

"Politics"; US fathers grew cannabis, then switched to tobacco, because blah blah... also requiring a way to make paper out of trees. Not big 'future consequence thinkers'. Why they crushed the Haitian major export is beyond me. This also go's to the German comments and a raft of "what starts wars" - spilt milk here, but maybe a PR case in Congress.

The Vatican is a "sovereign state" independent of Italy. Own army, own diplomatic corps, own everything. Hence own UN "observer" status effectively Catholic Church as Pope is effectively King. Admission sponsored by the US in anti communist fervor. I'd say get over it, as irrelevant to this issue.

Rubber; it is a quite a long lead time crop and somewhat uneconomic if you look at the Brazil industry collapse. It's not a tree suitable for reforestation, nor will it grow at the altitudes encountered, where erosion is now most in need of addressing. I'd cross that off the 'worthwhile list' - until such time say the bedding market finds a way to overcome the problems with foam latex 'hotness'. Meanwhile there are better trees from China for the forestry and erosion application - as mentioned previously.

Ky - good link on Tassi cannabis. A major cost is security, regulation and PR. A. to stop idiots nicking the crop, B. to stop scalawags inter-planting high THC varieties, which then can't be detected by sats, and ruin both PR and the crop/fabric quality. How to keep crops 'free of weed' in Haiti is a problem, if naughty stuff is worth more to farmers. Seems to me you'd need to look at a finished garment industry directly marketing a premium product, to get near 'income parody'. Thoughts?

1916 Mono crops are a bad idea, as sugar cane has "rediscovered", and now rotates with peanuts (in Queensland). Finding a legume 'food' crop that can be inoculated (Rhizobacteria) aside from peanuts, suitable for cane and cannabis areas would be a good goal. (allergy to peanuts being a growing problem - esp in US)

Soil quality in Haiti is a big issue (hence the legume emphasis above). All that sewage desperately needs to recycle - somehow - not be wasted. But Haiti has exported such a huge amount of nutrients to date, it must import it back. Affording this is a big problem. An agricultural derivative export scheme must factor in far greater than unity nutrient replacement.

But as inferred, the Tassi overheads are way high by comparison and the marketing is supplying that 'premium' demand - a bit like the lamb industry did in the US.

The questions are can we do it without or outside the conventional Aid strictures?

Or as 1927 can we avoid the inevitable
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#1922
In reply to #1921

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/03/2010 12:43 AM

Kyzine forgot again
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#1923
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/03/2010 1:08 AM

I would have never noticed. It had txetnoc.

Were the bloody hell are you?

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#1924
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/03/2010 2:57 AM

Oh you know, fending off those annoying interruptions to CR4.
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#1925
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/03/2010 3:40 AM

Security seems a bit slack there. Do they still let you out on occasions?

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Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/03/2010 3:53 AM
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#1932

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/12/2010 8:33 PM

Anybody got any news about conditions in Haiti?

Looks like the Media Frenzy is really really over.

No notes even on UNWire.

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#1933

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/14/2010 11:03 PM

Here's an organization doing something

http://www.givelove.org/

I dropped them a line

It came to my attention from

Vrbarnett
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#1934
In reply to #1933

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/14/2010 11:13 PM

Nice heads-up. I like their 'Future Goals' page. Enough stuff to keep focused heads busy for awhile:

Create large-scale inexpensive sanitation systems for displaced people living in camps and communities without clean water...

Develop and test sustainable cooking alternatives to charcoal...

Organize clean up and environmental programs for communities in Cite Soleil...

Begin communal gardening program to supplement food needs...

Revitalize Local Agriculture and Livelihoods - Help us begin work with local communities to revive gardens and assist small farmers...
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#1935
In reply to #1933

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/15/2010 11:31 AM

Give Love reverses the order of things I had recommended. I had recommended community clusters using the shipping containers first, and then family homes.

I had two reasons for this ordering of the actions. One was resources, and two was law and legal.

Things that start well, end well is one of my sayings and precepts. For instance I went to Canada before my lottery number was to come up, not after. I got counseling prior to getting married, not after.

Why in the case of Haiti all moves as if it was a mold spore depresses me.

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#1936
In reply to #1935

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/16/2010 1:16 AM

Corrupt politically disease ridden country of illiterates is racked by earthquakes and hurricanes. Evacuation is not allowed. International community send tents and doctors. Money is donated by movie and rock stars. One goes native after his wife divorces him and wanders around humbly showing off.

Meantime natural events go on. The world turns.

Modern art of spews on canvas turn to oil leaks from punctures.

A thousand steel balls weighing 5thousand pounds, or electrocution of the pipe, but no, we want that oil!

Let me lick lead and see if I can figure this out.

Leak goes on and President complains.

It is one thing to be really stupid, and another sadness to be willfully stupid.

Okay its a mile down. It's still nothing but a hole to be covered up and plugged. It's underwater for Gods sake! Red Adair blew heads out off depriving the fire of oxygen!

Underwater I'd drown.

Hole, Oil, Pressure.

Bent pipes.

Only reason this aint stopped is greed. The hole spewing oil can be covered and plugged by materials and weights. Only reason its not done and done is that the oil is wanted.

I could care less about complaints since as dumb as I am I know they never get anything done. I order ships to blanket net bomb the leak with steel, or order melting of the valve with electric arcs, now.

As far as Haiti is concerned I order land law.

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#1943

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/20/2010 4:25 PM

Just dropping in to drop this off:

Shipping Container Cities to Shelter 2 Million Haitians From Hurricanes

Moreta and his team, Green Container International Aid, have been working non-stop to begin construction on their Container Cities. A pilot project has already begun in Jacmel, which lies along the Caribbean Sea, in the Southern part of Port-Au-Prince. They will start building emergency shelters as soon as they start receiving shipping containers, which can be quickly retrofitted into durable structures that can withstand the hurricane season. These basic structures will include new exterior paint, plywood floors, a Green Roof (geo-textile fabric, gravel layers, humus, vegetation), fabric covers over the top to protect them from the sun and collect rain water, a screen panel at the entry doors of the containers to provide for mosquito protection, and a
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#1944
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/20/2010 4:37 PM

Thank you Sue.
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#1945
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/20/2010 8:45 PM

You know I looked at some of what Sue linked us to, and wondered at designs at operations. The roof designs looked like they would catch wind. The stories or stacking are fine, but if these people don't have cranes, how's that to be accomplished?

5 containers have been donated. What's up with the containers we know to be in Port-au-Prince, or Cap Haitian?

No report of deeds, land law issues I'd need a Haitian attorney to explain.

I have to say that we have really done a good job at getting at the realities in this blog tread and its associated threads about water and anchoring.

We've covered it all from where to and how to modify containers right there now.

But we are stuck between the academics, and the dreamers. We are stuck with the governments, and NGOs. Our sponsors don't support us.

I wonder how many Globalspec companies will give to charities instead of to their own, us?

Ky gave me a hard time for suggesting there was something wrong with me saying I'd do things if Transcendia, if I had some money.

Any of you who might know me know by now I have a grandiose concept and only hang out with you all since I am a warrior poet who thinks words and actions and tools go together.

I could write a fine poem about a punch press.

Set the Die, hit the pedal. Down cam, spinning wheel.

See that hole in the steel?

Watch where you put your fingers.

Working you often lose parts, or get really hurt. Sometimes you die.

War is all around all the time.

I'm really at it from a distance.

I have advisors.

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#1946
In reply to #1945

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/21/2010 12:51 AM

But look Trans;

"These basic structures will include new exterior paint, plywood floors, a Green Roof (geo-textile fabric, gravel layers, humus, vegetation), fabric covers over the top to protect them from the sun and collect rain water, a screen panel at the entry doors of the containers to provide for mosquito protection, and a"

Not corrugated hurricane razor bade iron sails!

Someone is 'taking on board' the forum ideas.

How to move and stack is in the thread too.

It's all good!

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#1947
In reply to #1946

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/21/2010 1:22 AM

No matter how much planning the details are certainly going to evolve on the ground

If this discussion has brought a few ideas forward & made even one bureaucrat think

we'll have made a difference
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#1948
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/21/2010 8:45 AM

Yair. Thought the ground dictated the reality in the first place.

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#1949

Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/23/2010 6:29 AM

News y'all can use:

Kenyan schools to get portable solar-powered Internet café
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#1950
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

05/30/2010 7:40 PM

Just in case anyone is still here:

Forget Solar-in-a-Suitcase, the Air Force is getting Solar Power in a Shipping Container

Just a few months after the U.S. Marines announce a portable solar power system the size of a large suitcase, the Air Force signs a $3.5 million contract with Lockheed Martin to outfit entire shipping containers as portable solar power generators for rapid field deployment.
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#1951
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

06/01/2010 9:35 AM

Thanks Sue. Still here, sortah.

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#1952

Re: Shipping Container Housing

06/21/2010 9:37 PM

0.75 kwh per liter [2.8kwh per gallon]

24 liters per day [6.3 gallons per day]

18kwh per day

I wonder how that compares to a much larger unit

being 230vac isn't going to be especially useful

Preaching the gospel of container as house

can always use another voice
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#1955
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

06/22/2010 11:07 AM

I dunno... but ga for the link and continued efforts.
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#1956
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

06/22/2010 11:30 AM

I was hoping to suck you in, so you would post some of your fantastic cad work

you may have seen the posts from Steve on the water thread here on one of our sister threads

He's been working with Charlie on the storage & filtration of drinking water....
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#1953

Re: Shipping Container Housing

06/21/2010 10:30 PM

Surely enough solar energy is realized at that latitude to accomplish without complete reliance upon electricity.

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#1954
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

06/22/2010 11:05 AM

I was thinking solar pv, and this sort of lower wattage device.. but I may not have gotten it right..
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#1957

Re: Shipping Container Housing

07/02/2010 8:08 PM

Ascend to periscope depth, number 2.

Deploy HF antenna.

Prepare message.

Use non-cipher substitution code.

Transmit.

OFFE NPSE DPXCFMM

Secure antenna.

Dive; run silent, run deep
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#1958
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

07/02/2010 8:21 PM

Done, what next?

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#1959
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

07/02/2010 10:08 PM

Killer Engineers in Haiti taking over as Walker did.

Voodoo Catholics that can't read.

CIA doesn't even keep an agent there.

French could give a hoot. The place is no threat to the US and is without voice and retirees like Bush and Clinton have control, given by Moon of the UN while USAID uses the country as a training ground for the equivalent of visits to Cuba by the Young Socialist Alliance of my age that went down to Cuba to cut sugarcane and brought back tee shirts with Che Guevarra on them. Sell Coke now. Sold tee shirts.

Textiles and tourism for Haiti!

Tent testing facilities on the beaches as the hurricane season commences!

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#1963
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

07/02/2010 10:48 PM

CIA doesn't even keep an agent there.

They had one in Cyprus or was that the other way around?

OFFE NPSE DPXCFMM

On Fire For Ever Stop No Police Securing Entry Stop Displaced People X (dead) Clinton Fornicated My Mother end and over

Trans, you still with me Mate?

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#1964
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

07/02/2010 11:10 PM

We've had stereo for 2+ years

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/13038/Off-Topic-Post

I think if you dig you'll find we multi channel surround sound

mostly unintentional
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#1966
In reply to #1963

Re: Shipping Container Housing

07/03/2010 10:29 AM

I did not check up on agency presence in Cyprus. I did check within my orbits on the situation in Haiti.

The situation appears comparable to the situation in Ireland prior to, during and after the Starvation, or what is otherwise called the Potato Famine. Puerto Rico is also a comparable situation.

Emigration was allowed in the case of Ireland. Puerto Rico became a US territory. In the case of Haiti neither solution is even up for discussion.

In the case of Haiti from what I can tell the real issues are land law, property rights, culture, and international meddling clothed in PC do gooderism.

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#1968
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

07/03/2010 5:12 PM

There's a show on TV this evening to report on the latest from Haiti. That's one of the huge differences between now and then. We are witnesses of this all, in real time and there is Eff all we can do.

Gotta get back to Tauchstation. Kyzine is deploying heavy guns, Ky.

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#1960
In reply to #1958

Re: Shipping Container Housing

07/02/2010 10:10 PM

Hey is this a message drop for terrorists or something?
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#1962
In reply to #1960

Re: Shipping Container Housing

07/02/2010 10:31 PM

No, that's the BBT I thought. Well, why not introduce stereo. As long as it stops my ears from popping, all is good.

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#1961
In reply to #1957

Re: Shipping Container Housing

07/02/2010 10:27 PM

The rivets are popping. Do I need permission to rise? My surpreme leader don't leave me now!!

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#1965
In reply to #1961

Re: Shipping Container unterseebootwerstehensie

07/03/2010 8:50 AM

Secure your rivet.

Ascend and deploy schnorkel.

Smoking lamp and grog light lit.

Distribute tiny umbrellas for cocktails on my mark

3, 2, 1, Mark
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#1967
In reply to #1965

Re: Shipping Container unterseebootwerstehensie

07/03/2010 5:03 PM

unterseebootwerstehensie

Unterseeboot verstehen Sie?

If in doubt it's a Kraut. Especially correct spelling in code has shifted mountains. Incorrect Morse has stopped U-boats from coming back to the surface.

1. 2. 3. I am free, Ky.

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#1969

Re: Shipping Container Housing

09/13/2010 2:16 PM

Here's a recent comment from this forum

Comment by Laetitia van Haren 2 hours ago I came here to join my husband and to check for myself the realism of some of the points I made in the discussions I have been involved in.

My gabion idea came from learning that the rubble removal was not very efficient and organised- an understatement. The container idea from the knowledge that hundreds of containers must have come to Haiti with relief goods and construction materials. idem for pallets combining it with the growing popularity of containers for good quality yet comfortable mass housing solutions in developed countries.

I already had a good tour of the city PaP and the countryside up to Sodo. I found that the centre of PaP is composed of tightly packed camps of the worst kind I have ever seen anywhere.Then, leaving PaP, the provisional shelters (tents and makeshift shacks) are more spaced out, so you see an attempt to relocate and move the centre of urban mass residential gravity away from the most stricken centre part of the city. The gvt now plans to expropriate the entire stricken centre part, erase all or most of what is left standing and build anew. Not a bad idea at all, but how to satisfy the previous owners, how distribute compensation? So the landownership and land-use issues are as huge and untractable as ever.

As for the gabions: the rubble is indeed of such poor quality that it doesn't lend itself to the regular gabion technique. I cannot tell if an adaptation of the technique, working with sturdy bags in the shape of wall parts is practically and economically feasible. But the rubble SHOULD be put in sturdy bags so as not to be moved over and over again. Then it can be used for land surface stabilisation and water run-off control. It can also be used as a foundation and as the outer wall around a property. Now it is just a mess, and people throw garbage on top of it and becomes worse and worse.

Having all the rubble put in sturdy square bags that can be lifted by light machinery and then transported and used for terrain stabilisation and water control would already make a huge difference for the rubble problem and move the rebuilding forward with a big leap.

A lot of the rubble is also of such poor quality (which is whey the quake had such an impact in the first place) that it should be crushed back to sand to be made useful. But that is also easier if it is put in sturdy square bags. The lifting device could work as a press at the same time, or it allows the bags to be amassed and then squeezed and pressed to crush the rubble inside.

I have observed the gabion technique used here and there for stabilisation and water run-off control. This could be more widely developed, I think. In the local newspaper was an advertisement of an elderly lady who asks for helpers to make gabions. The ad has been in for some time now, so apparently she doesn't find support, but it is a start that the interest is there. I am going to try and trace that lady.

As for containers, I have seen a huge number of them lined up yesterday during my tour of Port au Prince and the wider region. Yesterday, Sunday, the site was closed but I'll try to find out more. I couldn't see from the distance if they were 40 feet ones. bye for now.

I have not seen any do-it yourself construction material on offer along the road that came form imported packaging materials (crates, pallets, containers) . all the wooden poles I saw were cut straight from Haitian forests, and the diametre of the poles (5-7 cm) demonstrated that the trees were not allowed to grow to any semblance of maturity. They were not branches, as I had hoped.

Pallets are not strong wood but could be massively turned into moulds for cement pouring. (Pardon me if I don't use the right terminology) .

On the whole it is sad to see how little progress there seems to have been made for relodging the homeless into something sturdier and better than tents and sheets on poles. And incomprehensible at first sight that no attempt at official grid laying out seems to have been made outside the city where well spaced temporary shelters have been erected on the plain and hillsides. And not far from the gigantic UN logistics compound at that... If they wait too long it will have become impossible as people will have developed the terrain to their own individual needs.

The homeless people crowded in tents have themselves in the camps in the downtown part of PaP made road grids, and a whole range of services and shops. are available again in tents.

Alongside the camps are rows and rows of toilets but my impression was that these were not used and the stench and squalor were appalling.
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#1970
In reply to #1969

Re: Shipping Container Housing

09/13/2010 9:13 PM

Out of Colombia back in the 1950's came an idea called the "CINVA" ram (I think I spelled that right) for making rammed earth blocks for housing construction. Totally manually operated, and there are plans available to fabricate these devices on site. Any potential of promoting these there? I have a good deal of literature available about this, if you would like to see it. Send me a PM and I will send you what I have.
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#1971
In reply to #1969

Re: Shipping Container Housing

09/14/2010 9:18 AM

thanks for the report.

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#1972

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/11/2011 6:54 PM

NEWS FLASH!!!

For those who may be interested, tonight the Public Broadcast System (PBS) is featuring 3 programs regarding Haiti: NOVA (8-9 PM ET), Frontline (9-10 PM ET), and Independent Lens (10-11 PM ET).

Should be an eye opener....

Please have a great evening guys and gals!

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#1973

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/30/2011 10:06 AM

good thing
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#1974
In reply to #1973

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/30/2011 8:01 PM

I can't believe you registered to CR4, and read thousands of posts, and came up with that as your very first post!

Other than that, let me be the first to welcome you to CR4. We are a creative and fun bunch, and obviously you will fit right in...

Of course you have to know you are getting "OT" (off topic votes) for making people load up this huge thread, just to read your one-liner.

Cheers,

Chris
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ky
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#1975
In reply to #1974

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/30/2011 8:31 PM

Good one Mate! You keep it nice and tidy around here

On the other hand I have met people commenting on books they have never read.

This thread is unfinished business and the next catastrophe is happening all the time and a need for preliminary housing is as great as ever. I hate to say it but I think we have all failed.

My potential input is still covered in red tape and is met by a system in such an inert state that it beggars belief. Me giving up? I don't think so!

How are the pot holes developing in Canada BTW?

Talk to you soon, Ky.

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#1976
In reply to #1975

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/30/2011 8:53 PM

we're in the middle of mud season...

the real pot holes will come in a month or so, when the rain starts.

I'll get another bit of time for your drawing on the weekend... sorry.

cheers,

chris
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#1977
In reply to #1976

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/30/2011 9:22 PM

Good as gold Chris,

pot holes are the least of my concerns. Nevertheless I have told John that I want to show him something soon. He knows I'm an inventor so you can imagine the look on his face when I wanted to suggest, discuss road works with him.

All in its own time, Ky.

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#1978
In reply to #1975

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/30/2011 9:46 PM

I have had unconfirmed reports that containers are, in fact, being adapted for housing in Haiti in spite of all the boondoggling and vulture hype hitting the news media. If the reports I have received are reflective of some small part of the truth, then I would say we have not failed absolutely. I can not say that about the official efforts to Rebuild Haiti...
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#1979
In reply to #1978

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/30/2011 9:59 PM

Good to here CW - hope it's true.

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#1980
In reply to #1979

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/30/2011 10:41 PM

Denial is part of the truth. I have failed .........well not absolutely.

I saw a documentary on the still NOW existing aftermath. If they would only have something every one wanted. Poor people of Haiti, what have they done to deserve such treatment?

Hope all goes well, Ky.

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#1981
In reply to #1973

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/30/2011 10:44 PM

Its not a thing and its bad. Welcome to CR4.

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#1982
In reply to #1981

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/30/2011 11:51 PM

he probably meant 'good idea'.

(without reading the thousands of posts.)

do you remember back in the '70's, the "Love Is" posters...?

here's one just for you... "The greatest invention idea I ever had is:____________!"

Chris
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#1983

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/15/2011 12:12 AM

A year later, another disaster, another country in need.

Just an FYI:

The main purpose of the Ex-Container Project is to provide immediate housing for those who were displaced following the earthquake and tsunami that hit Japan on 11th of March, 2011.

Utilizing the format of ISO shipping containers the homes are easy to transport and offer a higher quality housing solution at an affordable price.

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#1984
In reply to #1983

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/15/2011 12:28 AM

GA

Nicely demonstrates; Where there's a will ...............

Such a pity the NGO's have systematically screwed over any Haitian showing 'will'

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#1985
In reply to #1983

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/15/2011 12:30 AM

Good one Sue

Unfortunately there are still 100's of thousands of displaced Haitians

Very little of the money raised has been spent

Hope springs eternal that the recent elections will help speed the recovery
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#1986
In reply to #1983

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/15/2011 1:28 AM

Thanks, Sue.
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#1987
In reply to #1983

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/15/2011 8:43 AM

Thanks Sue,

Nice find.

GA

The Japanese will quickly embrace this type of temporary accommodation.

There is a different mindset there. I have a feeling that they will work on it more than the rest of the world has and it will become ubiquitous.

ChrisG should contact the architects.

Cheers,

Stu.

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#1988
In reply to #1987

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/15/2011 9:08 AM

aw shucks, guys.

It would be great to learn that some progress is being made somewhere. I keep reading about proposals and ideas, but nothing being set in motion re: housing (especially as concerns Haiti).
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#1990

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/01/2012 7:47 AM

Unfortunately little progress has been made rebuilding from the devastating earthquake of 2 years ago

the disaster recovery industrial complex has continued to raise money

shipping containers will only be a viable option for living & working spaces where there is a surplus of inventory at a low price...
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#1991
In reply to #1990

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/01/2012 2:51 PM

disaster recovery industrial complex

DRIC

Now we have a name for it. Why didn't I think of that.

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#1992
In reply to #1991

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/01/2012 7:55 PM

we could just shorten to

Disaster Industrial Complex

Most any of the biggie's, like the Red Cross

will use a disaster like the earthquake to solicit donations

& suck up a majority of the funds for studies & administrative costs

Just because it's charity doesn't mean no one gets paid...

extra levels of bureaucracy, special deals with vendors

there are certainly bribes that have to be paid & other special taxes

that is not to say there aren't plenty of small NGO's doing a fine job with the money they have
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#1995
In reply to #1992

Re: Shipping Container Housing

11/04/2012 9:53 PM

Garth,

Great response to Ky's from D.R.I.C to D.I.C and where is Stue Wrights answer to the Spam entry?

Now we have the Sandy Hurricane which runs from Cape Hatteras all the way to areas around Portland Maine, the whole shoreline looks like a war zone with over 1.3 million properties damaged/washed away or non inhbitable (large numbers are multi-million Dollar homes right on the waters edge-Oh Dear!)

So maybe the container idea could arise like a Phoenix.... is right on NY/NJ's front door steps, more than 300,000 + empty containers just lying/stacked up around Port Elizabeth.

FEMA and the UN have still diddled with the idea even after all this time, even for Katrina.

We have a sound engineering argument and Bob Vila has built a load of thes type of homes in Florida bsed on the Container concept, so why not for the NY/NJ and other areas affected by "Sandy".

Chris288 had some very exciting design ideas, anybody up for a restart?

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#1996
In reply to #1995

Re: Shipping Container Housing

11/04/2012 10:42 PM

Sent You a PM. I'm in, Ky.

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#1993

Re: Shipping Container Housing

10/09/2012 1:54 AM

Spam: This post was deleted because it contained advertising outside the Commercial Space forum. Please review Section 14 of the CR4 Site FAQ about advertising.
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#1994
In reply to #1993

Re: Shipping Container Housing

10/09/2012 5:52 PM

Where?

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#1997

Re: Shipping Container Housing

06/02/2014 5:59 PM

Ask Alcan . In fact , the containers used to ship aircraft engines to Mexico often end up as 'mobile homes '.

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#1998

Re: Shipping Container Housing

10/30/2015 5:32 PM

I'd suggest something a little lighter and easier to work with than a metal container.

Perhaps a portable fabric building/structure. Something like the these camp buildings from Alaska Structures:
http://alaskastructures.com/portfolio-view/camp-systems/

Or how about a yurt? Their design is supposed to hold up very well against the wind. Something like this:
http://www.weatherport.com/fabric_building/yurts/
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#1999

Re: Shipping Container Housing

09/29/2018 2:29 PM

I came across this article today. It reminded me of our large discussion on using shipping containers as shelter. These days the use of shipping containers as shelter is very widespread, and I like to think we all had something to do with that. It also reminds me of my favourite camp design I made back then. (which I can no longer find on cr4, so I'm reposting)

Shipping Container Based Campus
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#2000

Re: Shipping Container Housing

09/29/2018 5:22 PM

I just wanted to chime in and be the 2000th post.

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