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spacecannon
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Shipping Container Housing

01/16/2010 12:05 PM

I have a civil engineer friend whoose dream it is to design and build shipping container housing for general use and for emergency use, like an instant city for Haiti. Im trying to motivate him to live his dream, so what does everyone think about container housing?

spacecannon

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spacecannon
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#150
In reply to #149
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/24/2010 11:25 PM

This is the Port au Prince docks after the quake, lots of damage, lots of shipping containers.

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#147
In reply to #145
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/24/2010 9:01 PM

I've asked that question myself, if only to myself.

They must have some money, if only from foreign aid.

I saw today that Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, gave them a million dollars.

There was this big TV thing on a couple of nights ago that raised some money.

I am not really clear myself right now who actually ends up with control of money donated by either individuals or organizations.

I did hear one guy flat out say, don't give the money to Haiti, but to NGOs working there, and didn't catch any specific recommendations.

I sometimes wonder if Globalspec.com pays any attention whatsoever to some of the think tank work we rise to do here on CR4.

I put my question up about what might you or your company have to sell to Haiti in the commercial space, and last I checked no-one and no company has posted any offerings.

Seems like most of the time that money is donated to countries they buy guns with it.

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#114

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/22/2010 10:45 PM

This is the way I believe things have to fold out on Haiti:

1. Get the water, food and medicine to the population by whatever means available. First by air drops, then

2. Get the US Army Engineers to clear the roads of the rubble from all of the collapsed buildings. This is going to take some serious heavy equipment and manpower, and time is of the essence..no one else on the face of the planet has the resources that are required like the US Army. Forget the politics if Soldiers should be used in rescue missions or not. LIVES ARE AT STAKE & WHATEVER MEANS TO RESOLVE THE CRISIS IS THE BEST. Next, replace collapsed bridges with Temporary Bailey Bridges. The main reason for all of this work is for the roads to be used for truck convoys that are transporting water, food and medical supplies. You can transport more tonnage effectively by truck conveys than by any other means except ship borne delivery, but you cannot drive the damn ship up on the land and expect to drive it around can we, eh?

3. Air drop tent structures for temporary housing. After the Hurricane season begins these will become useless. Follow the airdrops with convoys.

4. Transport unused and abandoned shipping containers from ports all along the US Eastern seaboard and other countries in the Western Hemisphere....transportation to be provided by container cargo ships.

5. Immediately repair facilities at the Port a Prince harbor. the US Navy is especially adapt at this sort of work task. FIX THE CONTAINER LIFTING CRANES

6. Containers arrive at Haitian port. This must be sooner than everyone imagines...at least two months before the official Hurricane Season starts as there is need to start transporting the containers overland to the "tent cities". start replacing the tents....

7. Upon arrival at tent cities, containers destined for housing units must be cleaned out, painted white, and modified for windows and roof mounted exhaust fans. Others are to diverted and modified as necessary to function as shower buildings, food and medical supply buildings, security buildings, warehouses, hospitals, first aid buildings and waste disposal buildings and UN Admin (or whoever??) buildings.

then the rebuilding of Haiti can begin........

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chrisg288
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#116
In reply to #114

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/22/2010 10:53 PM

you are ultimately a very practical thinker. well done!

and with sufficient motivation by decision makers and executives, it shall be done.

unfortunately.. the evidence also shows us that some of those decision makers have their head up their ass about security and procedure... imho.

I'm all for "git 'er done!"

Chris
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#117
In reply to #114

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/22/2010 10:54 PM

CaptMoosie-

From news reports, it sounds like at least some of your ideas are being implemented. Unfortunately, nothing like this can be accomplished as quickly as most of us would like to see happen...If the tent cities are not replace soon enough, the tragedy will be amplified.
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#120
In reply to #117

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/22/2010 11:13 PM

Hey Chrisg288 and c warner 7 11, I wish it would go faster there than what is actually happening.

To tell you the truth, If I was the Officer in charge of US Army troops in Haiti, you could bet you bottom dollar that I would be kicking butt and asking questions later, and getting it done.

As far as I'm concerned the effort by the US military so far has been anything but stellar.....very lackluster if all be told. Since I'm no longer a Commissioned Officer in the US Army I can only make suggestions as a civilian now. So far, the logistics is lacking and needs a huge tweaking. It shouldn't have taken this long to even get the 82nd Airborne troops mobilized and on the ground. That is a joke as it should have taken only 2 or 3 days once the balloon went up. God knows what's happening here in the US regarding the supplies since it seems to me this is where the bottleneck is, not in Haiti.

Time to kick butt Mr. President and start asking where is the hold up and why? I know there is a war on and our military is sort of stretched (you can blame Congress and a few former Presidents on that one....remember the "Peace Dividend" after the Berlin Wall came down and the subsequent fall of the USSR?).....they sliced a little too much of the military and now it's biting them in the butt, especially when it comes time to call up the troops to do whatever...

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#121
In reply to #120

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/22/2010 11:21 PM

Now, now, CaptMoosie- let's keep the politics out of this and let the guys just get the job done...

Whoops! Forgot this is America we are talking about. Never mind...
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#122
In reply to #114

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/23/2010 12:04 AM

Who is in charge of Haiti?

The President Preval, seems absent.

Looks like the UN, which had presence and was working there, is reeling from deaths of those doing their job there.

Should the President of the United States order the US Army Engineers to clear the roads of Haiti?

Should Ban Ki Moon tell President Obama to order US Engineers to clear the roads, and install Bailey Bridges, or else?

Whose tents are to be dropped? Whose supposed to pay for them?

Whose cargo ships are going to be required to deliver empty shipping containers?

Last I knew Liberia was a good place to register a ship, and it is common for ships to sail under flags of convenience. What law is it that can be invoked to require delivery of shipping containers or anything at all to Haiti?

While it is true, it would be good to fix the cranes at the port of Port-au-Prince, one crane needs another crane, and if you are in a hurry, put a 20ton Linkbelt on a barge and tow it to Port-au-Prince to do the crane work, and fix the stationary crane.

Once you give tents away, well, don't expect them back...

Don't worry so much about cleaning the containers, or painting them, roof fans, or any of that.

I imagine that as poor and set on that the Haitians have at least enough sense to deal with that without much instruction.

(Well maybe not since regular old shipping containers floors are impregnated with poisons intended to kill bugs.

While many of us hate politics, since they are not rational, if you do not deal with politics, not a bit of your good intentions, or designs, or inventions will ever see the light of day or succeed in the real world.

Great leaders don't stop, and don't forget they are as much demanded to be smart, as to be showmen.

Even Jesus knew better than to say follow my train of thought, and simply said, "Follow Me."

Eisenhour, and Grant, well, they became politicians...-sort of.

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sceptic
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#125

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/23/2010 9:12 AM

In the 1930's when Mt Isa was being built, they set up some houses and "tent houses", which were basically a corrugated iron shed with a canvas "fly" pitched with a generous space between it and the shed roof.

This allowed plenty of air flow to prevent heat build up in the roof space.

These tent houses were in demand as they were more comfortable than normal housing.

While Mt Isa is in the dry tropics, I believe Haiti would more closely approximate the wet tropics, but even so, tents with a fly pitched well above the roof are probably better suited as emergency housing. Container housing with a pitched roof above them would also be possible for longer term housing.

The flat roof of containers makes water proofing during a tropical wet season a bit problematic.

As others have pointed out, tents can be air dropped.

Whatever happens, these people are going to need shelter from the rain before too many months pass. The wet season is only a few months away.

Moosie is right, the infra structure needs at least minimal repair before large scale movement of supplies can be effective.

Most important right now is getting the airstrips functional.

Next will come roads and water treatment, along with field hospitals.

As troops provide security, food can be properly distributed and people can be helped on a larger scale.

Finally, some direction can be given to help them start their own rebuilding.

Incidentally, the army often regards these operations as good training. Perhaps not needed when you are still fighting a couple of wars.
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chrisg288
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#126
In reply to #125

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/23/2010 12:47 PM

what a great post... very insightful... you are wise beyond your years.

and about the military.. you are very right.. good team building exercise.

Chris
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#127
In reply to #125

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/23/2010 3:04 PM

Dear Sceptic, But the situation is that the US Military is fighting a couple of wars. I maintain that that is their primary job.

Sure enough emergency response could well be regarded as good training.

What is that training for? That training is for war.

If you send an army that's primary purpose is to wage war, supposedly to help people, justifying it as good training for war, it ought not be surprising if some resent being used as part of a training exercise.

An event such as has occurred in Haiti does call for resources that often are only possessed by Armies. This does create an conundrum for it is not in the interests of Military leaders for their armies to get along to well.

In fact there are rules internal to armies that enjoin soldiers from what is called fraternization with the enemy.

Imagine if in this case all the armies and combatants suspended hostilities and converged on Haiti to help out.

Imagine if near enemies, adversaries, such as Iran, members of Al Queda, the Taliban, the North Koreans, all decided, "Hey let's go work with the US Military to help out Haiti!"

Do you start to see why I maintain institutions need to have clear missions, and even go so far as to say that while the US military may have capabilities able to address emergency situations, it ought not be their job, and realistically cannot be.

The International Community of nations has tried twice now to address the need for an institution with a clear mission that transcends the propensity for conflicts inherent to human history.

The League of Nations was one, and the United Nations is another.

Essentially we all have dual citizenship, and I'd like to be able to vote for the Secretary General of the UN myself.

Hell, I'd like to run for the office, but am even prevented from even speaking at the UN since my little model nation does not meet the required definition of a real nation, since I don't have an army.

At any rate I hope all my friends here on this forum who often have a dim view of the UN, often enough with good reason, will accept and understand my reasoning that has consistently here been that while it is wonderful that the US military is ordered to aid Haiti, there are severe limitations to its long term use in that capacity calling for either reinvention of the UN, or the creation of an institution more properly suited to these sorts of events.

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ky
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#128
In reply to #127

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/23/2010 3:58 PM

Well done Trans. GA from me, Ky.

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#129
In reply to #128

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/23/2010 6:57 PM

Thanks, Ky.

I'm curious about how Captain Moosie & Chrisg will take it.

Sure enough in my judgement bulldozers and cranes, boomtrucks and containers make sense to apply to the situation in Haiti.

I read that bulldozers were making a plain where a tent city could be put up, and that troops from the Dominican Republic were being accepted and sent in.

Captain Moosie who has lived there has alerted us to the fact that a rainy season is soon to come up.

Hollywood Stars, and famous musicians put on a TV show to raise money to help the Haitians last night.

I wonder what the money collected will be spent on?

Fast, dirty and simple is what the shipping containers represent.

Over and over I see people paralyzed, and distracted by the pursuit of perfection, when good enough, would be better.

Where homes were, there is rubble.

Thousands of Shipping Containers are available.

They are strong.

Cranes and ships and bulldozers and trucks, with a commitment to a plan, and Haiti and the Haitians could muddle through.

Okay, shipping containers are not perfect.

Neither was Levittown.

If I had any power I'd just say, Okay, clear the streets, flatten the rubble, dump containers where the homes were, and let the Haitians do the best they can, same as we do as we are all forced to live with the reality that while you may wait for something better, it is unwise to think it will come in time, just because you have faith.

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#130
In reply to #127

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/23/2010 9:33 PM

Dear Russell,

Harry Browne was one of my heroes. He wrote a book in 1973 called "How I Found Freedom In An Unfree World." I think this book is one the most important books of the 20th century. He also ran for President of the United States in 1996 and 2000. Unfortunately he passed away. He is still one of the smartest people of all time. Please read his chapter on Government in the pdf. read the whole book. it is awesome. Creating government institutions will not solve the problem in the best manner. Simply put, you think that way because you are not aware that there is a different and better mechanism.

Again, I applaud your selfless desire to help others, but I disagree with the proposed method. (creating UN government organizations = creating black holes of corruption and inefficiency)

Chris
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#131
In reply to #130

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/24/2010 12:45 AM

Alan Greenspan was highly influenced by Libertarian thought as espoused by Ayn Rand, and look how that has turned out.

Even he said he went a bit overboard.

While I come from an anarchistic political philosophy, and am very fond of classical anarchistic principles as delineated by the founder, godfather of anarchy, William Godwin, really I simply do not believe in anything too much.

I suppose I end up sidling along with William James, whom some call the only American Philosopher of real note. His philosophy was called Pragmatism.

He himself was reluctant to label it, or even accept any particular name for his philosophical works.

He did go so far as to say that Democracy was a lot more delicate than people would prefer.

He also made a case for people to be actually able to tell a crazy person, from a spiritually inspired person in his story of George Fox, founder of the Society of Friends, more commonly known as the Quakers.

Your hero Harry Browne somehow was lost on my radar screen, and my cursory read of his history only puts him within the camp of anarchists and anarchists by another name, libertarians, who like Ron Paul always seem to shoot themselves in the foot by taking extremely sensible positions up until it comes to something like women's rights.

Big surprise that anarchists don't agree with other anarchists...

Any way while there well may well be some facet of philosophy concerning governments and institutions better than what I have either discovered so far, or invented on my own, it sure does look to me that in cases like the event in Haiti, individual initiative will not fill the bill, and that while the UN is imperfect as it is, at least there is some agreement internationally that dealing with such events ought to be within its mandated mission of promoting and keeping the peace.

I myself can contradict myself, and feel like doing it right now, for another saying of mine, is, nothing will work, unless you believe in it.

The way all of this relates to the issue of shipping containers as housing to replace the housing destroyed in Haiti, is this: I now believe shipping containers would be relatively quick and strong, and the best alternative to other options for rebuilding in Port-au-Prince for a number of practical reasons. For instance they are strong, they are available, they are relatively cheap, we can expect them to overtime be modified , there is a better product for their current use as shipping containers available, creating a confluent and convenient time for the old style to be retired to the purpose so a win win situation is possible, depending only upon whether or not those in charge, and who can make decisions that will be carried out by the institutions they head, do so.

Tents, well, they are sort of temporary.

The Habita designs are great, but likely beyond the economic capabilities of either the Haitian government, or the Haitians as individuals.

The time factor influences me to recommend a co-ordinated plan of bulldozing, and placement of the shipping containers so that the normal operations of the city are more quickly enabled.

I have no problem with allowing the UN, and the Haitian Government to undertake this work, especially since UN personnel died there, trying already to help, and therefore deserve and have the right to continue their work.

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#134
In reply to #131

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/24/2010 3:51 AM

Due to their ability to take transverse loading, containers are also earthquake proof.

Even if the foundation shifts or cracks, the container merely goes "cockeyed" but doesn't break up or bury people.

Short of a quake large enough to open cracks which can swallow the containers, or fluidise the sand beneath them so they sink and are buried (in which case you have real trouble), these could be a good permanent solution to rebuilding. Just needs imagination, some good architects and plenty of spare containers.

Still a good idea to erect a pitched roof above the containers to prevent make them habitable on hot days as well as waterproof them.

What will actually happen is that things will probably be rebuilt shanty town style from whatever materials can be scrounged - except of course for official buildings and residences which will consume the foreign rebuilding aid meant for the unfortunate poor people.
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chrisg288
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#151
In reply to #131

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/24/2010 11:36 PM

Alan Greenspan?... was the chairman of the Federal Reserve System. I don't know how much more unrepresentative of liberty one can get. That is like saying that a prison warden is influenced by libertarianism... It turned out bad because it was his job to benefit the owners of the Fed... not to give a shit about the people. The Fed does not serve the people of the United States. The IMF does not serve the people of the world. These institutions exist to server the Globalist agenda to control the world.

You don't see guys like Ralph Nader running the Fed... That guy I would vote for.. if I were american. He's another hero of mine. They can't get into the presidency because the enemy knows too well that they will not serve the globalist agenda. Obama was allowed to get in because he will, as evidenced by the current trillion dollar inflation.

Chris
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#152
In reply to #151

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/25/2010 12:22 AM

Cheer up, you didn't waste a vote on Ralph Nader, I did.

P.S. I wasted one on Barry Commoner, and Shirley Chishom too. I've wasted some on winners, like Carter, or Reagan, or Obama. As the years go by I get fonder and fonder of Nixon and like Ike and Truman too.

Whatever, takes a lot to run for elective office. 'bout calls for giving anybody with the guts to do it at least half a vote.

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#133
In reply to #127

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/24/2010 3:37 AM

Hi Trans

Quite agree. Well said.

GA from me although by the time I read it you didn't need one.

I do shudder at the prospect of the UN having it's own army, basically at the beck and call of coalitions of tin pot dictatorships who can muster enough votes to satisfy their jealousy of the nations which are better off than they are.

I know the security council is supposed to prevent this, but the deal making, ideological groupings and outright corruption for which the UN is noted would make me reluctant to trust them with this power.

Maybe I'm just paranoid in my old age.
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#138
In reply to #133

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/24/2010 3:49 PM

Yair, Armies are dangerous.

The proposal that the UN actually has an army capable of using force is intended to stop events such as occurred in Rwanda, and not intended to be used in the manner you properly fear.

Again it becomes an issue related to clarity of institutional missions.

If I remember correctly Andre` Lewin Chairman of the French UN Association proposed that to finance such an army an internationally applied tax was levied on weapons sales.

Part of the problem, and disappointments with the UN, do stem its failure to be able to react in any meaningful way when despots and warlords egregiously and obviously commit crimes against humanity within their own borders.

cwarner_711 pointed up to me some very difficult legacies of the colonial era, and artificially created borders on the African Continent, and Iraq as well illustrates problems that have flowed due to the illogical geographic and ethnic mixes imposed.

Redrawing borders to more properly represent the actual loyalties people have illustrated in Iraq trips up on issues like, who gets the oil?

So the solutions to some of these issues while requiring enforceable decisions in courts of International Law, are nearly impossible.

Hence we have wars that go on and on at varying degrees of open hostilities.

Almost everything possible to go wrong has gone wrong for Haiti from the moment the Spanish made landfall. I don't think the original inhabitants exist at all even, having been wiped completely out by diseases for which they had no immunity.

According to reports, prior to this current setback, the UN had been making progress there, mostly without much notice.

Now Haiti is a focus of attention, and many of the UN personnel who were working there, died along with those they were honorably working to help.

Who were they? What were they doing there? What was, or still is the UN plan for Haiti?

When the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center, and the Pentagon struck and killed so many of the US and others of the world, The New York Times published bios and obits that bespoke of the honor that we give to those simply going about their lives.

The number of Haitians killed in this event, this earthquake is staggering. To give all the sort of attention that the New York Times gave those who died at Ground Zero illustrates how anonymous most of us really are, and forever will be.

Truly I do hope that Haiti, becomes the Shipping Container Conversion to Homes, Capital of the World, for God knows they need an industry.

Truth is stranger than fiction, and stranger things have happened.

I myself have held to irrational hopes and dreams when all else was gone, but there are some reasons to hope that out of this event, better days are ahead for Haiti.

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#592
In reply to #133

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/07/2010 7:52 PM

I am shocked to see that someone gave this an ot vote. I have given a GA.. and would give more if I could.

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#594
In reply to #592

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/07/2010 8:33 PM

Don't be too shocked! My guess is that the OT votes came from the OP.

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#156

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/25/2010 4:31 PM

Dear Friends,

What I have done is to simply look up the contact information for the UN mission of Haiti.

I also wrote them an email, basically suggesting they become aware of the suggestions embodied in this "think tank" thread.

I also wrote the former US ambassador to Barbados, asking if there was someone she would recommend I speak with.

I also wrote someone else out of my address files at the UN, whom I had some dealings with during my efforts concerning UNTV, asking for similar information.

I also telephoned the Haiti Mission and left a message for someone, supposedly appropriate.

Here is some contact information Haiti:

www.un.int/wcm/content/site/haiti/

His Excellency Mr. Leo Meoroes Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary Permanent Representative of the Republic of Haiti, is listed as head of the Mission.

telephone number is 212-370-4840

fax number is 212-661-8698

haiti@un.int is a contact email

The secretary at the Haiti Mission to the UN, also suggested I call Unicef 1-800-486-4233, and the Red Cross, 1-888-407-4747

My goal actually is modest, in that it is simply to make those in positions of power, aware of the options we have discussed.

At some point, I suppose I recognize that Haiti is an independent nation, and may or may not look with any favor, or spend any money pursuing our suggestions.

I have no particular standing, though I have been known to write an effective letter now and then. Typically they just get me in trouble, but I do it anyway.

I have considered attempting to print out the thread discussion and fax it, though typically I find it is a good idea when faxing things that the recipient is primed to be looking for it.

-plus I've not got much ink.

I do think that this particular discussion does have value, and at least some in power ought to be aware of the content of it.

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#157

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/25/2010 5:31 PM

I finally got some pictures from my brother of the hunting shack he built from a container.. sleeps 4 in bunks. What you don't see is the 8' section on the far end that is a tool shed. (through the brown int door) Cooking is on the BBQ or propane stove... heat by propane fireplace. There are propane light sconces.. bring your own water.. but the sink drain is plumbed outside. and there is an outhouse. (it's all out in the country obviously.) It's pretty secure with locking steel doors. It's insulated too.. so even in the canadian winter, it can be right toasty warm.

Chris
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#159
In reply to #157

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/25/2010 6:49 PM

Hello Chris,

Your brother did a very nice job remodeling the guts of that container! He is to be applauded!

Question is whether of not it can keep out a determined and hungry Canadian Sasquatch? LOL

Beers & Cheers!!!!

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#161
In reply to #159

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/25/2010 6:53 PM

there are invaders more mundane than Sasquatches.. (although it is in Sasquatchewan ) He also bought a couple of PV solar panels, but hasn't installed them yet. work in progress.

Chris
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#183
In reply to #161

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 7:26 PM

Notable Canadian Comedians: Dan Aykroyd

John Candy

Jim Carrey

Michael J. Fox

Phil Hartman

Rich Little

Howie Mandel

Lorne Michaels

Mike Myers

Leslie Nielsen

Martin Short

This list is presented just to buttress my thesis that without Canadian Comedians, the state of cheeriness in the US would be greatly diminished.

While eating right, sleeping right, and eschewing all vices may help one live longer, a good laugh goes a long way.

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#184
In reply to #183

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 7:37 PM

how about Brian Mulroney and Paul Martin?
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#185
In reply to #184

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 7:49 PM

Don't know their work. Isn't William Shatner Canadian too?

Everybody I ever knew that worked with him, said he was a hoot.

Some people just don't take life all that seriously.

God bless 'em, I love the unrepentant.

Help your friends and have a good time, is about as much philosophy as we really need to know.

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#187
In reply to #185

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 7:54 PM

"Don't know their work." thats too funny! (I assume you are kidding... you lived in Canada.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Mulroney
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Martin

Chris
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#188
In reply to #187

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 8:39 PM

Both times I lived in Toronto I was an illegal alien.

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#160
In reply to #157

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/25/2010 6:53 PM

What was the total cost?

Was it transported on a rollback, or some other way?

Any sort of foundation, or just set on flat grade?

Were "sleepers" glued into the walls, or somehow otherwise attached to facilitate paneling and insulation?

What sort of insulation was employed?

Was its interior finished on site, or off site?

How's the outhouse working out? Imagine it is cold there.

Any women ever stayed there? Were they completely satisfied with it?

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#180
In reply to #160

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 6:11 PM

the total cost CDN$

Shipping Container 3,000$

Materials: 8,000$

Labour: 5,000$

Shipment from alberta to sasketchewan: 900$

The unit is just levelled with lumber.

sleepers were put in with grommeted drill-screws through the walls I think.

I think the insulation is pink bat.

interior was finished before shipment

with the saskatchewan climate and the outhouse, the air is are dry, so maybe you won't freeze to the seat... I haven't been there in winter, so I assume it's cold... as to be expected. It's just plywood construction, with no insulation, but is an effective windbreak.

There is plywood bunks in the one end of the shack and he bought 4" foam, and cut to size.. and just has down sleeping bags.. so it is quite comfortable.

Chris
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#182
In reply to #180

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 7:01 PM

Maybe a little plastic barrier and a pipe up to a brass flame point would provide some gas to heat the outhouse aye?

For 16,900 Canadian, pretty damn good I'd say.

Think the low for a Habitaflex home is about 69 grand.

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#158

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/25/2010 5:33 PM

Called Unicef, was referred to two other numbers. Actually took the time to call them.

I've been through these sorts of run arounds before.

P.S. Suggest that the Administration feature the thread on the Homepage for a bit, incase someone actually does come looking for it.

I've characterized it as a superior CR4 "think tank" thread.

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#162
In reply to #158

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/25/2010 7:02 PM

Hello Trans!

You get a GA from me just by calling the UN!! I'm sure your effort will be rewarded by some of the UN personnel visiting the Forum and looking over the "Think Tank" frequented by Engineers worldwide.

Again, I applaud you for the effort and thinking outside the Container "Box"!

Also, I applaud all of you generous engineers out there that contributed their individual time, and more importantly, their brainpower! There haven't been many times over the years where I've been involved in collective problem solving that didn't solve a thing, but this one has outshone many if not all previous attempts. You have a right to be proud.

With some hope, maybe this idea will become a reality and save many Haitians and be the start of pulling that poor Island's back from the brink....

God Bless you all.

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#163
In reply to #162

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/25/2010 7:12 PM

I'm just glad that I had to foresight to invent shipping containers in the first place, oh so many years ago.

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#165
In reply to #163

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/25/2010 7:22 PM

Chris,

This site has some fascinating accounts of shipping/aviation transportation disasters and the shipping ones generally feature containers in various sorts of disarray resulting from the disaster. The current news item is specific to Haiti damage with some on-the-spot photography. Useful and interesting for the current topic.

http://www.cargolaw.com/2010nihtmare_haiti.html

Cheers, Bob
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#166
In reply to #165

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/25/2010 7:35 PM

that's really excellent reporting on the Haiti situation... best I've seen actually, detailing the response of the US. GA.

Chris
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#167
In reply to #165

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/25/2010 11:10 PM

Thanks AussieBob, quite a lot.

I've written an email to Countryman & McDaniel.

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#168
In reply to #163

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 12:24 AM

Ya gotta love the Canadian sence of humor, GA Chris, GA Trans, GA Capt'n, GA's to all, CR4 rocks.

Spacecannon

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#169
In reply to #168

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 12:43 AM

Historically speaking you could make a strong case that without Canadians, there would be no American Humor, in the TV age, at least.

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#170
In reply to #163

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 1:59 AM

That's BS--but it's good BS!

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#164
In reply to #162

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/25/2010 7:21 PM

Thanks Captain,

Will likely take more than my phone calls or emails to get the product of our thinking at least in the minds of some with the task of making decisions and allocating resources.

I'd not have gone to the effort myself if it did not seem from all we know that the concepts we have discussed are practical and represent more than one opportunity for the Haitians.

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#171

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 8:50 AM

Good Morning Everyone!

I happened across the following article in MSN Real Estate section this morning as I was gulping down my first mug of Joe that you will all find very relevant to the current blog discussion as it relates to using steel shipping containers for emergency housing plus a great other uses!

Enjoy!!!

http://realestate.msn.com/blogs/listedblogpost.aspx?post=1573463&_blg=1,1578982

Have a great sunny day!!!!

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#172
In reply to #171

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 10:18 AM

awesome!
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#173
In reply to #171

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 10:57 AM

Good Morning All!

I found the following this morning while cruising the net:

christianlopez1 wrote: helping HAITI we are a non profit organization seeking for 500 donated 20ft long shipping containers,turning them into homes for the needed families in HAITI we already have the materials and man power. please help us help others att; Christian lopez Vice president of The Latino Housing Development Corporation, buffalo NEW YORK (716)881.7051 (716)472.6586 or email us at advancedamericanconstruction@gmail.com


Might be worth looking into if someone has contacts worldwide wide the shipping companies.

BTW, who exactly owns these containers once the merchandise has crossed the various "ponds" and has been unloaded here. They seem abandoned in a way, but I bet that if you tried to on-load one onto your flatbed trailer at any of the US ports someone will have your butt arrested! That does beg the question as WHO to contact to arrange a donation of containers for humanitarian emergency relief. Possibly those attorneys whose website appeared in this blog would have a good handle on the situation????? Food for thought Troopers....

Have a great sunny day!. I know I will all day long and through the rest of the week as the Contractor for my new roof-mounted 7.56 Kw Solar PV system will be here bright and early tomorrow AM to begin the install!!!! They were here yesterday to finalize some layout and measurements questions.......It's been a long time coming, but well worth it!!! HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY DANCE!!! EVER SEEN A MOOSE DANCE BEFORE?? NOWS YOUR CHANCE!!!!! *LMAO*

WILL BE TAKING DIGITAL PICS IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED IS SEEING THE LAYOUT.......36- 210 Watt PV modules, mounting frames and hardware, 2 Inverters, reverse meter, switch gear, and MSA data logger + appurtenances.

LET IT SHINE BABY!!!!!!!! LOL

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#176
In reply to #173

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 12:29 PM

The large lettering is usually an acronim descriptive of the owner

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#174

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 12:01 PM

Dear Friends, Chis Leonard and the administration have made this discussion tread easier for visitors to CR4 to find, by putting up an "Announcement" of it on the CR4 homepage.

I encourage all to do what they can to spread the word, either by phone calls, posts on Facebook, posts on Twitter, or through that old standby, personal contact.

The goal now that the Tread has reached a certain level of maturity is to make those persons charged with making decisions, and allocating resources aware of the options we have discussed and discovered.

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#175
In reply to #174

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 12:11 PM

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#178

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 5:58 PM

All that I accomplished today was to speak with representatives of Habitaflex, and Countryman & McDaniel.

I also wrote an email to Latino Housing Development Corp., and posted two notes on Facebook recommending looks and support.

Wrote someone I sort of know who has a fair amount of money, or at least used to.

P.S. No answers so far from journalists I wrote.

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#179
In reply to #178

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 6:10 PM

Trans, you are an active participant in life, you back up your words with action, here's to ya.

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#181
In reply to #179

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 6:30 PM

You started this one.

I just followed your lead.

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#192

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 12:16 AM

There is, I gather, a surplus worldwide of shipping containers with China's preference to not reuse containers.

The constraints of security, speed; jetty/wharf, container crane, and road availability would be well served by delivering relief materials in shipping containers.

A link by lifting the containers directly from the ships to numerous dispersal points would minimise redeployment distances.

Crucially ultra-heavy lift helicopters to deliver the containers are scarce and Russian help/hire may be needed. Will anyone with better knowledge of this please comment?
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#193
In reply to #192

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 12:56 AM

Zaf,

China would love to reuse them, but since we run a trade deficit the older beatup ones value is not worth shipping them back to china empty.

Trans,

there are several books out how to to convert shipping containers and many of the practices are prooven and standardized. however you are correct about access to cutting torches.

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#196
In reply to #193

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 2:23 AM

Yes it is an advantage that shipping container conversions are not an unknown.

It is also an advantage that folding containers made from composites are being offered.

It is as well an advantage that Miami is not that far really from Haiti.

Bauxite, Copper, Calcium Carbonate, and something else are the natural resources of Haiti. 2 thirds of the economy is based on agriculture.

Support for the country was withdrawn for reasons of corruption etc.

Half the people can't read.

Whole population of the country is about 8 million.

French and Creole are the official languages, and when I called the UN Mission I had the distinct impression that since I was an English speaker, I was at a disadvantage.

At least the people from Habitaflex in Quebec speak French.

Get six down there out of that company building and directing things and get France and Canada on it together with a realistic assessment of all involved, and we might get the place in some sort of shape to handle what is known to be the upcoming threat of hurricanes and rains.

Of the people involved in this, only Captain Moosie has lived there.

I'd go down there and see what I could do.

I'd of course try to take over some part of the airport, since Transcendia is supposed to be a country of airports.

I'd require a translator since I can't talk French.

Plus I've not spent a day away from my wife since I first had her.p] Was my wedding anniversary today.

Others are on it and working at it.

Hear John Edwards hopped a plane and went there with a sleeping bag.

If he'd have spoken with me when I saw him in the parking lot at the Harris Teeter Grocery store a couple of days before he fled to Haiti, I'd have suggested a few tools for him to take other than a sleeping bag.

Last time I went round with him he said pot was evil, but viagra was great. (its a paraphrase.)

Send John Edwards, a cutting torch. He's stuck in Haiti, and hasn't a clue what to do.

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#197
In reply to #196

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 2:34 AM

French and Creole are the official languages, and when I called the UN Mission I had the distinct impression that since I was an English speaker, I was at a disadvantage.

http://www.sil.org/linguistics/computing.html

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#210
In reply to #196

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 10:50 AM

Hello Trans,

I don't know how this got twisted around in the blog, but I've never been to Haiti.

I have, however, been to Grenada during Operation Urgent Fury back in October 1983 as a young and green 2 Lt. in the US Army Rangers (2nd Btn./75th Ranger Regiment). Grenada isn't all that far away from Haiti, and IMHO the climates and conditions there my be quite similar.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't too clear about my short Caribbean Vacation courtesy of our Uncle Sam. I truly hope this clears things up!

Have a great sunny day!

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#211
In reply to #196

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 11:31 AM

So Transcendians are as good a comedians as the Canadians.

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#243
In reply to #211

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/28/2010 12:56 AM

I am not sure how to deal with this spacecannon.

There are actually few official Trancendians.

In fact I have only issued about 2 hundred and 50 hand made passports, and have held off from much more issues for ethical reasons, since I have no offices capable of making sure that if you are using a Transcendian passport, and get in a jam, your call will be answered.

I am likely to be the funniest Transcendian, but I do have to work at it, since by nature I am really an extroverted melancholic. By percentage then Transcendia per capita is ahead of the Canadians whose population is very large, in comparison.

Canadians working in Canada, as comics are not as funny, or successful as Canadians that work in the US.

As long as I limit Transcendian citizenship, I may be able to maintain a percentage comedic match rank, though I will not be able to field a sufficient Clown Corp. capable of the mental assault required.

So, you are encouraged to call the UN (212-963-1234).

It is a very very serious question to be answered at this time which country has the greatest and most number of comedians to deploy in the service of laughter and, all around mental health that is known to be extremely dependent on comedic talents.

In fact, I have to admit that the Iranians I have known are pretty funny. I myself have not met an Iranian that wasn't funny. However the comedic Iranians I met had got the hell out of Iran, and were simply pilots that liked to joke around.

Still I think that they as a country, comedically may well give US and Canadian comics a run for their money.

Seriously.

So then, seriously a joke is the right question to the wrong answer, or the wrong answer to the right question, in technical terms.

As regards the situation in Haiti, the right answer to the right question is, shipping containers.

P.S. Food is the number one ingredient for the fostering of peace.

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#194
In reply to #192

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 1:12 AM

Heavy lift helicopters are not a common as you might think.

Actually surplus shipping containers are not all that surplus either.

Neither really especially are cranes.

Russia is a bit far from Haiti.

Now I'll have to look up the Falklands War, to be able to explain what some of this really means, and why sending heavy stuff, even over short distances costs lots more than a phone call.

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#195
In reply to #192

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 1:26 AM

I believe a crane barge is what is needed plus a crane of course...examples

http://www.dredgebrokers.com/Barges_Work/90805-BW/Barge-1.html

300 live aboard working crane barge

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#198
In reply to #195

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 2:42 AM

Cranes are cool.

You can do a lot with them.

Boom trucks are cool too.

They can get around, where cranes can't go, and the controls are right the same.

It's been over ten years since I ran a boom truck or a crane, but it was fun.

I liked that work better than working something like a Lull, since nobody expected me to do stupid things with a crane, whereas they did ask me to do stupid risky sh-t with a Lull.

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#241
In reply to #198

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/28/2010 12:47 AM

Crane on a floating platform will move more containers from a ship to shore than a boom truck...

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#200

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 8:02 AM

These containers are air tight. Steel sweats in humid areas... I think a different perspective is needed here... It is a violent place to live. Could these be a trap for the inhabitants? Suffocation...no ventilation...

It's my opinion with all the resources available in the world community, that we can do better than this...

(would you live in one of these?)
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#201
In reply to #200

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 8:17 AM

Suitably modified, with decent windows etc, yes!

I've used them satisfactorily in hot desert conditions as site sheds. No problems.

Insulated containers are also available.

Old containers are prone to leak in wet conditions, but a pitched roof above would be needed anyway to keep the container cool.
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#205
In reply to #201

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 8:34 AM

Hooray for some good Oz common sense. S.

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#215
In reply to #205

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 11:46 AM

GA's Stu.

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#203
In reply to #200

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 8:29 AM

A very little work with a rudimentary tool will have ventilation openings in a very short time, without sacrificing security. Seems there is not a lot of experience of living/working in recycled shipping containers in this blog. Tropical climes dictate a tropical top covering to add moving, insulating air gap to the roof structure, and that has many forms, the simplest of which is a 'tent fly'. With a small amount of imagination a container can become a salubrious accommodation, with excellent security. I can't see anyone with any imagination/ common sense, contemplating locking people in an airtight ,single skinned steel structure, as a dwelling, in a tropical environment no less. ZZSSeeesshh! Stu.

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#206
In reply to #203

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 8:47 AM

They can't be too bad to live in, in London they are being touted as 'up market' temporary accommodation.

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#208
In reply to #206

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 9:12 AM

I've seen a 'development' in London and it's jaw-droppingly good. Full marks for re-cyclability. Full marks for innovation. Full marks for style. Go here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=65C90Lvmjpl Cheers, Stu.

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#213
In reply to #200

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 11:42 AM

Most of the shipping containers that I have bought, have built in little vents near the ceiling, so they're not completly air tight, they could be made so, but if someone were living in one I/they would put in windows and such, could the world do better, better at what cost, but frankly if we ship goods to haiti in them, then convert them, costs per container should be less than 2k just for the conversion, these are strucurally stable so 4-6 concrete blocks for leveling and its done. (bolt em down)

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#202

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 8:27 AM

Certainly better than tents. I worry about two major problems re shipping containers as temp housing: 1. Fire from cooking inside, which may well spread throughout the "container city"; and 2. How will the containers be anchored to weather hurricanes or very strong wind gusts?
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#204
In reply to #202

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 8:32 AM

They're steel. Damned difficult to set alight. Very easy to contain a fire. Close it up and deny oxygen. Fire out. Teach the occupiers how to do it. S.

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#214
In reply to #202

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 11:44 AM

same way mobile homes are anchored, cheapest is a dirt screw with straps.

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#207

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 9:09 AM

Smart,

I believe that most of them are made out of CorTen plate steel. Put them up on crossties and screw them to the ground. A tarp over them supplies solar shade so that they don't become solar cookers with people in them. Old semi trailers would work well too.
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#209

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 10:27 AM

http://containerhomes-info.com/index.html

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#212

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 11:33 AM

I accutually work at a place where we do convert shipping containers into living quarters, or the offshore oil industry.
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#216
In reply to #212

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 11:55 AM

Well looks like a good time to let people buying shelter for Port-au-Prince, what you've got for sale. What you use, a plasma torch, and self tapping screws?

What oil company do you sell to? Bet they could buy some extra to send. They could probably use some good press. See what you can find out along those lines and get back to us please. Thanks. P.S. Some pictures of what you've done would be of interest to us, as well.

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#220
In reply to #216

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 12:37 PM

www.livingquartertech.com
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#217

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 12:04 PM

Wow...lots of good articles! I hesitate to weigh in after so many people have stepped up to the plate, however since I actually HAVE made a building out of a shipping container, perhaps I might have some small contribution....

A container is very hot in the sun. It heats up like an oven. You need to shade it. A container is hard to insulate for the winter, and hard to nail anything to. A container is also hard to drag around unless you have some equipment. Dollies, lots of people prepared to work together, cranes, front end loaders become your friend. So they are really not all that mobile. They require a working container port to get them there. A container is hard to ventilate, and lets face it, when you build a house, it isn't the shell which is expensive, its the windows, electricity and plumbing. The tare weight is too high to air transport unless you really really have to. It sweats with moisture every morning, and bakes during the day.

When you put a window into a container, it is no more secure than a tent or any other building. So these are the disadvantages...why then did I go to the trouble to retrofit mine into a machine shop? One word comes to mind...."security". Four padlocks! Another word..."fire proof".

Security for medical supplies. Security for groceries. Security as a jail. Security for a guard house. Security for hardware. Security for hospital equipment. Security for drugs.s

Not to mention security for banking institutions and lockups for goods which are subject to looting. I have seen containers used as storage spaces for furniture while a house is renovated...or built. Or rebuilt. They make good safe places for generators and other essential, easily ripped off equipment.

Militaries around the world have made containers into wash huts, mess halls, hospitals, though of course now they prefer to have special made buildings that take the same footprint as a container.

cut and paste from the above web site...

>>Some units have their own containers. The Army refers to its unit-owned family of containers as Equipment Deployment Storage System (EDSS) containers. Examples include the interval slingable units (ISUs), containers express (CONEXs), quadruple containers (QUADCONs), triple containers (TRICONs), and other specialty containers used for such purposes as mortuary affairs, refrigeration, or medical services. ISUs 60 and 90 are 88 inches long, 108 inches wide, and either 60 or 90 inches tall. They are designed to be transported by helicopters, either internally or externally, and can be placed on top of 463L pallets.<<

So, bottom line....empty scrap ISO (sea-land cans) containers don't really make good shanty towns. But they might make a good banking and industrial base to kick start an economy, help put people back to work. Your civil engineer friend might well push his dream into this direction.

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#221
In reply to #217

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 1:14 PM

As usual, you have some really great insights... very detail oriented. GA
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#218

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 12:23 PM

I built a backyard shed some years ago using a wood shipping container. It was weatherproof, and lasted for 5 years, when I sold the property and left the shed. This is a great idea and would be very cost effective. My shed was much nicer than any tent I have slept in, and could have been made relatively secure.

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#219

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 12:28 PM

check a company called Infratech contact jfignar@infratech.us or call 301-815-5494 ask for Jim. He provided design eng. for the force provider program used by the millitary Outstanding Engineer!
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#222
In reply to #219

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 1:29 PM

Thanks, P.S. Guys: The UN Foundation telephone number is 202-887-9040.

Media Contact there is Aaron Sherman.

The telephone number for the UN is 212-963-1234.

At this time the strategy is to make powers that be at least aware of the options shipping containers represent.

We know that the conversion of them to housing is not some brand new untried concept.

We know that there are a number of ways to move them, some purpose made, and others such as the rollback truck also applicable.

We know some containers are already there, and some are actually on their way.

What we don't know, is if there is a good plan for applying them to the current, and upcoming need.

My goal now is to influence the powers that be, to at least develop a plan that in an orderly way will allow for the application of these containers to the need.

P.S.

I did talk a bit with a man at Habita, that does make those real nice fold up homes.

They do not have them in numbers already built and ready to go.

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#223

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 1:44 PM

More to the immediate issue in Haiti ! FEMA has been trying to sell tons of the FEMA TRAILERS that were bought for Katrina. They had a problem with fumes from carpet and particle board as I recall. The RV industry is really upset at this competition in a time when they can't sell what they are making new.

Time has passed, so the fume issue should be reduced, plus in Haiti they would not be closed up, but windows and doors open most of the time. They can be shipped via commercial shipping and trucked or helicoptered into place.

Does anyone know how to get the rescue agencies thinking about this ?

TO Subject. Insulation, and ventilation are the big issues. Heat buld up in containers is a huge issue. Better than nothing however. Keep it simple. Modular plumbing would seem a need.
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#225
In reply to #223

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 2:19 PM

The only problem with that is that most of them have already been bought by a wholesale and are being auctioned of down here. I have been to a few of the auctions and I can't amagine them having very many left.

Heat build up is not an issue at all as I said earlier I work at a place where we a currently converting these containers into living quarters for the offshore oil industry.

www.livingquartertech.com
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#229
In reply to #225

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 4:42 PM

I shall be interested in which one of the shipping container conversion companies is first on the scene in Haiti.

Truly it would appear that within this thread we have discovered that more than one company is doing this work for profit.

We also know that the US Military has been doing this, and has mechanisms and methods for moving the creations.

I am going to write my landlord a letter and ask him to bulldoze the house I live in and replace it with one of these things.

The plumbers have warned us that the house we rent is wearing out, and that the bathroom needs to be torn apart and redone.

We ourselves may be forced to move, and have no idea where we might go.

Enough of my problems, I look forward to knowing of the delivery and installation of the first Shipping Container Housing to become a reality in Haiti, if there is not already one there.

Really it is odd, that such designs were not being employed in Haiti already. Pictures of the port show that there are a good number of shipping containers there.

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#230
In reply to #229

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 4:53 PM

Come live here with us. Then you could change your address from Transcendia to OZ. Good, Huh? Cheers, Stu.

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#238
In reply to #230

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 10:42 PM

I'd want at least a street named Transendia, and I might want my flag up at some little airport.

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#232
In reply to #229

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 5:31 PM

Coincidentally, and nothing to do with Haiti, the NZ Military yesterday called tenders for supply and conversion of 84 x 20' shipping containers for training faclities at 2 army camp locations. Details are hard to show here but as you would expect. Some are double deck with stairs. Just for interest on the topic, Cheers.

"2.0 Containers

2.1 The Containers are to standard 20ft, used storage quality shipping containers modified as per plans.

2.2 The modifications are details on the plans and can be summarised as follows:

Schedule of Containers

SerTypeNo.
1"A" with 2 windows and 3 doors, 6 reinforced roof variants24
2"B" with 1 window and 2 doors, 1 reinforced roof variant10
3"C" with 2 windows and 2 doors, 2 reinforced roof variants20
4"D" with 4 doors, 2 reinforced roof variants16
5"E' with 2 windows and 1 door6
6"F" with 3 doors and internal steps4
7"G" with 3 doors and stairwell barrier4
TOTAL84
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#226
In reply to #223

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 3:07 PM

Frankly I myself have not thought much of the FEMA trailers, partly due to all the bad press they have received. However the need for shelter is great, and the FEMA trailers do exist.

As well I imagine that the methods for moving the FEMA trailers are similar to those we might apply to movement and placement of already modified Shipping Containers, or those that might be placed, and modified where they are placed.

The cost of things are a factor, and the costs of shipping containers are relatively low, which does recommend them, along with their strength.

That being said I see no reason that the FEMA trailers ought not be applied.

What I imagine is the current issue to be addressed is the plan for rebuilding.

What roads are to be, or are being cleared? What bulldozers are leveling what areas of rubble and collapsed structures that would even allow for the placement of either shipping container housing, or FEMA trailers?

While you raise an option that is worthy of consideration, another advantage of shipping containers is that they are designed to be shipped.

I do have some doubts about the design of FEMA trailers as being particularly easy to transport by ship. As far as how to get rescue and aid agencies to think of your proposal, you might contact whatever trade association that represents the interests of RV makers who you say don't like the competition for sales of what they are making new, and see what they would like to see happen.

Due to the issues that have come to light over the years concerning FEMA trailers I wonder if the toilet facilities and all, might better be pulled out of them, their shells crushed for the aluminum scrap, and the useful parts installed in shipping containers.

Otherwise again the number for the UN is 212:963-1234.

The number for the Haiti Mission to the UN is 212-370-4840

P.S. another reason I have turned to like the concept of the use of the shipping containers in Haiti, is that this business of modifying shipping containers is an industry already, and may well represent a source of employment later on, as the Haitians themselves get experienced at modifying these things.

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#227
In reply to #226

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 4:19 PM

It looks like the fema trailers are a whole spectrum of models from most of the usual manufacturers of RV's. this old ad shows them to be cheap. Transportation would be a mess, not being able to stack them and all... not nearly as robust as containers.

the formaldehyde issue is no different than any rv with spray foam insulation. The longer it's cured [the foam] the less out gassing there will be. The climate in Haiti is not remarkably different than N.O.LA. The trailers probably all have AC, of course that requires electricity, which surely is in short supply.
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#233
In reply to #227

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 6:35 PM

Still the stoves, AC units, and plumbing may be of value if ripped out and loaded into the shipping containers.

I have attempted throughout this thread to make and maintain simple and effective with a mind to the dollars and where they might come from.

We could probably get the price down to the eight hundred dollar range per shipping container if we were buying 200 thousand at one time.

We may well get the FEMA trailers, whatever is left of them for little, and send them not so much as things to be used as they are, but to permit Haitians to salvage out of them there, such things like toilets and stoves and what not.

It is not as if things in the US are going all that well either.

With the unemployment rate as high as it is in the US, I imagine many would show up to rip the valuable parts out of FEMA trailers and load them into containers destined to be converted to homes in Haiti.

In the US capital expenditures favor new stuff so that use of older salvaged stuff is not cost effective to the accounting department, since they do not typically get a tax break if they buy old stuff.

I'd have to talk to an accountant to be able now to give all a better picture, for there are laws and regulations that will kill every single idea we might have here, known only to those whose job it is everyday to negotiate the shoals set up to benefit one, over the disadvantage of another.

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#234
In reply to #233

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 8:12 PM

I worked at a RV factory in the 70's

you probably can't reuse many of the parts. The electrical is probably aluminum & the plumbing glue in, even cheaper than pex. would any of it be anywhere close to code?

A ship set up for moving cars might be able to transfer large numbers of trailers intact.
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#237
In reply to #234

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/27/2010 8:56 PM

We know of at least one fast ferry sent that way that was originally designed to send people and their cars around the Hawianian islands.

Name of that boat ship, ferry is the Alakai. I need to look it up now for it ought to have already arrived.

Haiti has Bauxite, Copper, Calcium Carbonate, Gold, Marble, and Hydropower.

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#244
In reply to #227

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/28/2010 12:59 AM

the formaldehyde issue is not due to foam insulation which out-gases CO2 it's the pressed board installed furnishings, sub flooring and carpet which out-gas for years.

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#239
In reply to #223

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/28/2010 12:44 AM

we could ship goods in he Katrina trailers and kill two birds.

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#240
In reply to #223

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/28/2010 12:45 AM

Painted white with three inches of rockwool on interior surfaces & a few windows makes them bearable and fire/mold resistent too...

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Posts: 5916
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#224

GOOGLE MAPS NOW SHOW POST-QUAKE PORT AU PRINCE

01/27/2010 2:04 PM

Just browsing Google Maps again, and noticed that a bunch of the locat Port-Au-Prince maps have been updated to post-quake versions.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
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