Shipping Container Housing

Garthh took the time to post the email I'd written to Ms. Sarcy, for me.

Sure enough in the original to her it did have paragraph breaks, but you know technology strikes!

Just wanted yall to know what I'd said about you.

Only particularly new idea in the letter, following up on CWs suggestion about moving some of the city, was the idea of land swaps whereby if outlying areas are taken to put containers and camps on, the land would be swapped for closer in urban land not yet sensible to spend time on clearing.

It is important to me that I do not misrepresent myself, or us to outsiders, so the letter was posted primarily for your review.

We regret that it is difficult to read, but from one program to another, such things happen.

GA.

I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE!!

seriously, having definable goals is important, and I think that you are onto something here. Knowing when you are done... very important. (some of us don't have that...)

cHrIs

Stuey,

Great thinking... very insightful. GA.

I would volunteer to do drawings and renders.

We are many years behind the people who first thought of living in these things, we can hardly claim any originality for this 'acorn', but we are definitely giving it a big push.

as to what you forgot, I think maybe just hit the enter key now and then.

Cheers,

Chris

GA

If you want to bring fundamental change to people's lives and behavior, a change that will persist and influence others, you need to create a community around them where those new belief's could be practiced, expressed and nurtured.

—Malcolm Gladwell

Hi Garth

i thaught beals request was as good as gold. Thought I'd do the thingo on it. Hope you don't mind,

As written by Transcendian

To: Ms. Cheryl Sarcy VP Secretary of Red Cross Haiti Disaster Group202-256-3765

Dear Ms. Sarcy, I have been involved in the think tank discussions of CR4 concerning the viability of Shipping Container Housing for Haiti. Mr. Geoff Daly suggested I open lines of communication with you concerning this project.

Mr. Daly said that you had looked at the thread. Herein I will simply try to create for you a short summary of salient issues.One is that while the use of Shipping Containers is a fairly mature practice and industry many in your orbits are not apparently aware of it as an option.

It is also apparent that the shipping container conversion industry is concerned that they will not get paid, as those who are selling tents are, and therefore seem to have taken a hands off approach to the disaster in Haiti. For either unmodified, or modified containers this issue does need to be addressed as we move forward to properly utilize this resource.

I brought this issue up with both the members of CR4 within the think tank, and have also brought it up this day in a conversation with Martha Skinner of Clemson University whose designs for Shipping Container Housing are important due to the inclusion of 55 gallon drum designs addressing needs for water and food.

I have suggested that the methods developed for methane gas generation also using 55 gallon drums be included in what I am calling Micro Infrastructure Systems, for it is reported there is very little infrastructure in place in Haiti.

I and we, have also recommended that the shipping containers be used in conjunction with the tents, but do recognize that whereas one would not feel it necessary to give a Deed when handing out a tent, this is called for when placing something as sturdy as either an unmodified, or modified for living shipping container.

I for one recognize that in Haiti, any structure at all is preferable to the working classes of Haiti for such things help maintain their claim to their little plot of land, certainly in what appears to be a very tenuous system of property law.Any attorneys you may have on your staff capable of influencing some of these issues will go far to benefit the improvement of the situation in Haiti.

Throughout the think tank discussion on CR4 it has from the first been recognized that the issue of utilizing the Shipping Containers, is married to the issue of moving them over land. It was finally decided that while there are properly designed mechanisms designed for either port operations, or otherwise, either in the hands of the US military, or commercial businesses, they are hardy enough to be simply drug around using tractors, trucks and whatnot.

We are not in a position to allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good enough. We are suggesting further that the specific tasks necessary to utilize the valuable resource that the Shipping Containers represent be logically formed into crews.

A Foundation Preparation Crew is called for.

A Transportation and Installation Crew is called for.

A Modification Crew is called for.

A Headquarters that determines how and whom and where to allocate these containers, either modified or unmodified needs as well to be established.

It would most sensibly be established at the Port. While for fairness in allocation of the containers for shelter a lot system has been proposed within the thread, by Mr. Daly, I have suggested that while that is on the face of it fair, it could create bottlenecks and recommend that it be utilized according to Zones, so as to avoid difficulties logistically.

[p] Mr. Charlie Warner who generated the edit of the think tank discussion suggested further that it may be well sensible to move some of the City of Port-au-Prince away from its traditional borders. Some of the collapsed buildings will take significant time to be correctly dismantled so that rebuilding may proceed. Concentrations of efforts there now may use up time better used elsewhere.

Some land swaps may well need to be arranged, for typically somebody has ownership and claims of one sort or another to land, so it may be necessary for land that is suitable for the installation of Shipping Container Housing now, be traded for land that due to rubble be traded so resistance to the operation is obviated as much as possible.

These here are my thoughts, which were not arrived at alone, but in conjunction with the members of our little group of correspondents and generally a political bunch of engineers, and thinkers.

Typically we simply just hang out and help each other solve problems, and this is the first time we have been compelled to attempt to influence much outside of our little fun world. We do hope our contributions in this case will aid those in need.

ba/ael

You are right. For a busy person things get lost in the wash. I think it was worthwhile to keep with the gist of things, so I just did it, out of respect for Trans and his honorable intentions.

Some very interesting aspects of this catastrophe and its humane/technical/tools/infrastructure/politics/weather pattern/ nth degree, resolution have been proposed/attempted but a real life solution has not crystallized, me thinks.

It is all fruitless without real compassion and not being there, hinders enormously. I am of an age, were taking physical risks is not asked for but the young ones (the "bloodies", as we call them here down under), will have to show real character and do the right thing. This does not have to include saving children by taking them from their soil (souls) but, it comes close to what has to be done, in such a situation like this.

Building trust can be more important than building housing.

CR4 can do only so much, it's up to the "bloody" youth to go in and do what they have always done best. Unite and multiply, wherever you are and build families and stop blaming earth quakes and other obstacles for stealing (steeling) your presence, future and dog willing, your next meal.

It is in the hands of the people on site, in the end. I hope I can help with what I have put into a less time consuming format above, for more "busy people" to read at a glance.

Some of the participants in this thread know how I could be more constructive about the situation and I wish that I could have been there, with my technology in place, in time. With a technology that is in the "Process (?)" of being evaluated/excepted/patented/financed...../...................../.................................../................/.................../...............

Back to the drawing board!

We really care, Ky.

Hey Thanks!

Good Work Ky!

there are a few thousand other posts on CR4 that need your formatting skills!

Chris

For the Micro Infrastructure Systems best waste to gas assemblages I saw were from Olatunbosun Obayomi of Nigeria. Bioapplications was the, or is the name of his blog.

I looked it over some years ago, and have thought of it since we started with the Shipping Container Housing for Haiti think tank work.

A link to the blog

http://bioapplications.blogspot.com/2008/02/biogas-technology-in-nigeriafor-africa.html

As far as communications on the ground, I think that is going to change. Motorola is donating products to help address the issues there.

http://mediacenter.motorola.com/content/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=12310&NewsAreaID=2

I think this will help a lot. Mike phones are really great ways to communicate!

Chris

Thanks for the update Geoff. Alas, I am beginning to see despair. Ours. Maybe the good folks who "don't know from sh-t" need to come to Australia and see the usage of old containers here: beach shacks, holiday homes, secure storage complexes, site offices, 'granny flats', controlled atmosphere growing and ripening sheds (yeh! that too, some camoflaged, of course). And for my part, Municipal works structures; multistory gas scrubbers and OCF's, biotrickling gas scrubber plants, modular pump stations, etc. The list goes on and on and on...................right up to 'up market', salubrious homes. What has precipitated this development? Economy, availability, innovation. Same as everywhere else, really. What is there not to see? Thinking a little further, I guess the original suggestion of tents was the typical knee-jerk to a pressing situation, because they've always done it that way. And the administration will be smarting from the severe lack of capital, trying to figure ways to look as if it's doing something and hoping no-one will notice that they're doing nothing. It takes real genius to get things done quickly,on the cheap, in the government. And who do you know in the Government who's a genius? 'Nuf Said! Cheers for now, Stu.

Hi Stuey,

I would really love to see some pictures of those installations... any hope of that?

links or maybe if you have a digital camera. I don't know if I should say this, but when I lived in Ottawa, I knew some government people who were off the charts intelligent... but its a different type of intelligence... more people skills, language skills, writing skills, political skills, accounting skills, management skills.... etc. (as if all that crap counts eh?) plus they were great connaisseurs of wine and good food.

Chris

Yeah, But I bet those good folks were not at the top of the tree. You know the Peter Principle. I'd love to send you some stuff to look at of ours. As I mentioned before, we are patenting some of our ideas and can't yet publish. I'll consult Pete and send you what I can. Someone published a book on 'alternative architecture' but I can't recall who just at the moment. There is a storage facillity on the Gold Coast, just a 45 min. drive South of me here. Sinclair Storage. Google and look for the 'au' on the address. Youtube has pages of 'container houses'. www.royalwolf.com.au shows lots of alternative uses in their on-line brochure. Cheers, Stu.

these bloody paras are still not working for me.

Chris, Wouldn't you know, but just today the Kiwis ( New Zealand Government) have just announced that they are using 40 foot ( 12.2 metre) containers as permanent cells for the miscreants. They are putting 3 cells per unit. "The 12.2m long containers have been converted into three insulated and heated cells with two bunks, a toilet, shelving and a small table - all constructed out of steel." www.myspace.com/mxbrisbane Feb 4 issue, page 7 gutter. I guess they'll corrall them behind some kind of fence??? Augers well for the housing of Haitians, Eh? Cheers, Stu

This image is supposed to represent a Composting Public Toilet. The lower container is painted black to absorb as much heat as possible, and has the chimney attached for heat ventilation. Perhaps a counterweighted cap could be used on it, to retain heat, but permit venting as needed. (if no stairs are available, a container can be used, and have cleats nailed to the floor.) (Please forgive the odd sizes.. but you could use a 30 foot and 2 x 20 foot containers..) The um 'product' drops through from the stalls and seats in the upper container if that isn't obvious. Perhaps there is a form of 'trap' to prevent people in the upper from being overcome by fumes..

I'm no expert on composting toilets, but they have been around as long as water toilets, and they are not new to Haiti either... But I think that they could be built out of shipping containers, and the heat can really speed the process. This is a win win win... help things grow, provide necessary facilities, promote sanitation. provide some privacy.

http://www.mnn.com/technology/research-innovations/blogs/low-tech-toilets-turn-waste-into-soil
http://weblife.org/humanure/chapter6_5.html
http://weblife.org/humanure/index.html

also not new to Haiti is this plant that had a pilot project a year ago. It could be used to strengthen cwarner7_11's rammed earth blocks.

Chris

You're absolutely on the right track with this. Scattered along our highways here there are 'rest stops', which include composting toilets. Although constructed of traditional materials such as wooden poles and corrugated 'zincalume' sheeting, for nearly as long as I can remember, at the moment we're designing them to use recycled containers as the structures. None issued as yet but only a matter of time. Rarely are stairs or ramps used. we have a public requirement that all structures be 'wheelchair friendly', so the units are usually mounted beside earth berms so as to make the slope gentle. There is usually some kind of verandah type shelter at the opening door. Collection of heat to aid the process doesn't seem to be a problem here. The bio-action generates sufficient by itself. I'm not an expert on the process but our Pete is. Water for washing up is collected from roof runoff. Pressure taps are used so as not to be able leave the tap running. ( you Americans. Taps= faucets.) The complete system can be housed in two mini's. 6 footers. One atop the other. There is rarely a queue. I guess to ramp up the usage the dynamics will change a bit. Be different coping with 500 per hour, as to our 1 per month. Stu.

Guys,

URGENT

what chris has continued to show is great ideas in drawing format...great job Chris.

Well this morning I got a phone request from the Whitehouse's Policy section from John the special assistant to Valerie Jarrett (policy Advisor to President Obama...one of Six). The package I gave during President Obama's visit to Nashua is going to be reviewed in more detail.

They would like to receive more Photo's, drawings/sketches of shipping containers use as housing, toilets (as Chris has shown), Hospital type environments and any other ideas for review ASAP.

So I am asking all who have posted any such info to please email me these either as is or "Zipped" if they are big Mb's. Please send them to me at: geoffdaly@mkd-usa.com. I will then forward them onto John for dissemination/review. Seems we have hit a nerve and due to President Obama's request for ideas from the public, we are now being as a community within CR4 being recognized as a source of information and ideas. John said the Whitehouse is glad we are thinking outside the box and being proactive...great job to all and one who hacve contributed (Chris Leonard, thank you for reposting the heading on the site,great help to any agency looking for the site discussion)

So please gather what ever you feel is relevant and send to my email address above ASAP.

Will also let you know what Michael McShane of USAID finds out about tomorrows meeting...which was by invite only.

Cheryl Searyc of the Red Cross has reviewd whart was sent and is starting to get some people to respond in the agency and sends her sincere thanks.

Lastly the AP has reported and confirmed by a doctor friend of mine in Atlanta who returned yesteday from Haiti...many of the medical supplies are being held up in warehouses due to BS from local Haitian and on the ground command officials (including some bribes being requested...$5 to 10 per request...Shame on them)

Geoff Daly NH

My primary issue with public toilet facilities is that no one ever cleans them. I do not know what the solution is to this issue, but I suspect community sanitary facilities will not be very sanitary and will possibly be a source of disease...

Charlie,

You are absolutely right. It will be dirty. Unfortunately its a choice between evils. If there are NO facilities, then the elimination functions will take place everywhere... and the sanitation issues will still be bad. With a container, you can at least um 'contain' the problem, and when it gets full, switch them out, and have a gross (ew) handle on the situation, presuming one has the capability to move full containers.

I grew up on a farm, and have been up to my knees in calf manure, shovelling it through a small hole in the wall. I have a vivid imagination of how disgusting this could get, but I still prefer it to not being able to walk around without fear of stepping in something, or having rivers of piss down the dirt road.

Some sort of containment and sit-down facility, with TP, is almost the definition of civlization, in my opinion. (and running water) We eat, we drink, we work, we congregate, we sleep, we eliminate. Shipping containers can provide for all.

For the benefit of those who haven't previously thought in terms of containerized communities, (and are new to this CR4 thread) there are a lot of possibilities, so forgive me if this a repeat or echo of previously mentioned ideas.

Perhaps if we took a more specific and focused approach to getting this off the ground. Let's imagine someone in Haiti with trade skills in running a restaurant. We could build or design and manage the building of a 'restaurant in a container' (which will more like a take-out) It could have a stainless steel kitchen, grill, sink, and pantry. It needs a large refrigerator, so a second reefer unit gets added to the package. It needs power, so a genset goes in too. There are hundreds of miscellaneous features to be added, but we try to develop the system to acheive some basic functionality.

In order to support the restaurant, you need someone who is a farmer, producing food. So the farmer gets a market stall container, but what are their needs on the farm? Storage sheds, water containers & purifiers (we can design large sand filters in shipping containers) and of course, living quarters. Also there might be butchers and other food processing trades who need the basic water, power, light, refrigeration,etc. These types of functions (containers) will be essential to supporting the economic recovery.

All business is an interlinked and interdependent system of products and services. The big question is how does one afford these containerized systems. So my suggestion is that the groups of administrators who are managing the aid money CAN organize around the tradespeople of Haiti, and offer development money to those who show the initiative (having been informed with a scenario presentation)

These types of business models and their requisite needs can be mapped out in broad strokes, (even by us CR4 denizens, so anyone can do it. ) and so that when a tradesperson who wants to operate a business steps up, and commits to a business plan, the administrators have a basic idea of what to expect, and what the requirements are, and they can provide the containerized units.

As this is Aid money, it probably shouldn't be expected to have the money paid back, however, it might not be unreasonable to stipulate that a portion of profits MUST be invested in the community.

Farming: begets meat, vegetables, grains, milk, nuts, fruit, water, soil, plants, manure, etc. This is the core of a survival based economy, so this is the first focus.

Fisheries: I'm not sure how big an industry this is (was) in Haiti, but it is another area that can both feed and wealthify Haitians, if promoted. Refrigerations units would be required. If fish farms are created, then perhaps sealed open top containers can be used as fingerling stock tanks.

Algae: While this may not be considered a large business, it does have potential for both food production and export. Algae + open top sealed Containers + Heat = food.

Mining and Energy... These are wealth creating products if exported. When Haiti's infrastructure has been demolished, the people will not be able to afford to buy such raw materials at international prices, but assuming these industries are somewhat functional, then they can provide jobs and products for phase 2 development.

Waste Management and Sanitation: as discussed previously, this highly important civil function can benefit greatly from containerization. Starting with the idea of composting public restrooms, an associated rain water cistern, sand filter system, can go a long way to providing basic sanitation, given some sort of infrastructure for handling the full composting containers, and for processing the liquid waste locally. On the extreme other end of the spectrum, there exists technologies that can turn all biological wastes back into safe products. Should such equipment be containterized, they will require other supporting containerized equipment for oxygen purification and power supply for the supercritical steam.

Containers are also an excellent solution for Garbage. If the composting waste containers were to become standard installations, then there will be less garbage to process as all the organics can be composted and reused for growing things. Inorganic waste can be containerized and transported to land fill sites, or recycled (in containerized recycling facilities) As containers are easily part of the Intermodal type of system, they are an integral part of existing engineering technolgies for handling freight (and waste)

Craft making, baskets, pottery kilns, small forges, brick making, restaurants, butchers, internet cafe's, clothing shops, tailors, fabric shops, furniture makers, artists, rug makers, etc... There are so many small businesses that could be containerized..., not to mentioned the entire metal working and container modification, refrigeration repair, equipment maintenance, etc trades that would grow up surrounding a containerized culture. (windows, doors, vents, stairs, jacking systems & support frames, wheel systems, etc. etc.)

A containerized culture may sound at first blush like some cheap tin-can plan, solely for the underpriveleged, but it actually contains all the ingredients for a massively successful development. First, it provides for the basics of life, in food, shelter, water and power. It is a huge step up above large tracts of underprivileged living in squalor. Containerization of the functions of life and business will inherently create a quantification of value, where value is expressed in terms of the different types of containers. When you know that one months labour (example) is equal to one empty shipping container, then this one thing will form the basis of an economy so composed. Quantification of this sort underpins Trade. Trade begets profits, and profit invested begets growth, wealth, and economic recovery.

Well that's enough for now.

Chris

"Quantification of this sort underpins Trade."

It occurs to me that we have seen economic quantification (quantization) in action before. If you consider the effect that the automtive industry had on economies, and how 'everything' came to be evaluated in automotive terms, you can see what I mean.

A car is a quantized unit, and has a definable value (okay maybe not but it appears to) and that a massive section of our economy revolves around this system of units, whether it be whole vehicles, or parts and components. There is a parts industry; a customization industry.

Trucks get refrigeration units, generators, vacuum units, instrumentation packages to monitor activites, etc. I don't think it much of a stretch to say that virtually every technology has been adapted to fit into or onto a vehicle at some point. There is a near infinite variety.

I propose that not only will containerized living do the same, if given the proper nurturing, but that it has already started with the advent of containers. We consider that this technology is already mature, but it is nothing like what it could be.

In addition, given that such a civilization begins to grow as a culture, it will only be enable and amplified by vehicles. They work seamlessly together as a system.

I think there is a natural function in the universe that optimizes life and energy towards quantization. (bodies for the living, quantum energy packets for energy, gravity for planets, single homes for families instead of one massive open space building that everyone lives in together)

I am continuosly amazed at the creative works of others. For example, a favourite book of mine is The Millenial Project: How To Colonize The Galaxy In Eight Easy Steps by Marshall T. Savage. As a spin-off of the book, there seems to be an emerging group of imagineers who are thinking very hard about this subject. Here is an idea shown for an offshore community, but which could easily be interpreted in terms of shipping containers and on-shore or near-shore living.

http://tmp2.wikia.com/wiki/Utilihab_Complex

and it seems that they also think in terms of containers.
http://tmp2.wikia.com/wiki/Container_Mod_Complex

One idea that I like there is the proposal that containers can be easily converted to greenhouses, which can be starter houses for edible plants. and even promote the commercialized growing of fruits and vegetebles, if developed into an automated system with water and nutrients (and CO2?) provided.

Chris

Hey Chris, When you going to get to the Shipping Container Bus Design?

I'm thinking cut one in two, stick simple rack and pinion steering on the front, and use transmissionless drive derived from DC electric powered by either steam genny, or methane powered genny system.

Sans boomtrucks, or block and tackles, to cut the things, roll on sides and cut.

Jackstands and ginpoles, block and tackles to get up to work height for wheel assembly.

Allow for horse drawn, or car pull if motorization is not possible.

Progress through fun!

Chris, Well done. GA. Stu

Do you think incorporating a frak-tank into that design would present any advantage?

Frac tank specifications http://candlservices.com/FTSpecs.html

http://www.grizzlymfg.net/tanks.html

bywire,

Good idea and use

Use of Frac tanks for water is excellent idea and is used on many remote sites.

Right now there are Hundreds of idlle Frac tanks in and around Texas that could probably be donated by Halliburton, Schlumberger, FracMaster and Devon Energy, Shell and Hess.

Good idea for placing in the community as a central easily portable water source for about 2,000 people. Generates jobs hauling/filling and maintaining, use a central water plant or distallation sources placed around the country.

Use Chris Gorham's idea for a sewage compositing setup as well

Here's another solution

which are sized for cargo container, very good choice for potable water.

Here's the web site

http://www.water-storage-tank.com/flexitanks.html

There are also container sized tanks for both liquid & gas, neither of which have a surplus

That has so many possibilities. GA.

Chris

As a member of our city council I have researched augmenting our seasonal emergency water availability with a 150,000 gallon bladder essentially similar to that Garthh depicted suitable for potable water also, not very portable though.

I have also seen cargo containers used as solar powered autoclaves to sterilize growth media for use in mushroom cultivation.

used plastic bread trays full of straw & saw dust were stacked inside, 2 weeks later ready to use. This was in washington state. Close to the equator humanure [compost] could be sterilized in days not weeks.

A tiny bit of engineering could turn Chris's 2 story latrine into a compost machine. Providing much needed topsoil...

A good solution for clean water

one dimes worth of silver will provide a family with clean water for several years

the plan is open source & uses everyone's friend the 5 gallon bucket

from potters for peace

http://s189535770.onlinehome.us/pottersforpeace/?page_id=125

Garth,

great idea to get water in and around the area, especially if the container is left stationary, can be refilled by a tanker...right now UN handing out in excess of 250,000 2 lt bottles of water per day....all plastic and littering the ground (all bring flown in by C130's in pallet loads).

At least having water stations as you suggest allows the population to collect water.

An ATL 3,000 gallon pillow to fit into a 40 ft container with two connections at either end is around $3,000.00 each (min 10 pillows) and about ten days to make.

ATL is in Ramsey NJ and is one of the premier flex fuel/bag producers.

Geoff Daly NH

bwire,

thats awesome! and right there is a good answer to "how to adapt a container for wheels?" and I'm sure that a lot can be learned from these beauties.

GA

Chris

Spacecannon, So, at this point, with respect to your OP, I'd advise you friend to "go for it". The worlds his oyster, so to speak. With good engineering savvy and a little imagination he'll certainly be able to make a difference. There are billions of these things around, and the world really does need intelligently produced modular habitats, workspaces etc. Put a rocket under him and tell him to get going. Cheers, Stu

Hello Guys and Gals,

Glad to have been reading the advances in interest by the Whitehouse et all. I've been a tad too busy here the past 2 days after being zonked by the flu bug and all of it's nasty ramifications.....feel like I got a shipping container dropped on me!!! hardy har har!!!

If there as anything I can help with please let me know, okay?

Has anyone thought of contacting a columnist at say the New York Times or the Washington Post about the CR4 Forum Think Tank regarding the containers. Maybe high time to let the media fishbowl know where we are and what we've done????? Maybe getting the news about our Forum and container blog to "John Q Public" is all we need for the powers to be to finally step up to the plate and listen and read our ideas....ACTION........overcome and prevail.

I for one am thankful to have contributed here since I cannot be on the ground in Haiti doing so in any engineering capacity!

Have a great sunny day! Solar Power....power of the People! (it'll be up and running hopefully today after the building inspector does his walk through!! YEAH!!!!!!)

Trans, GA Well done Stu

Capt, Now THAT's the way to get it done. Blanket coverage from all the media, as to the advantages of the proposal and the fact that no-one is doing anything about it. Every one contact all of the media you can, doesn't matter where it is. Make it happen worldwide, simultaneously. Cheers, Stu

CaptMoosie,

I agree with you re: media notification.

If you search Google for "Haiti Housing", you get "Results 1 - 10 of about 40,400,000 for haiti housing."

We (cr4 thread) are not near the top of the list.. not even in the first 5 pages..

Due to the way search engines categorize hits, others are in line ahead of us. blogs, news agencies, and specialty agencies are all higher on the list than us. I didn't even find us..

If you search for "Haiti Housing Containers", we are again, not in the top 5 pages. Results 51 - 60 of about 3,190,000 for haiti housing containers

I'd like to suggest that we or cr4 admin try to contact Google (and other search engines), and try to PUT us at or near the top of the list, based on the combined engineering underpinning supporting this thread. We are certainly not the only ones trying to get this idea across... but a higher rating on search engines can have a massive effect. Getting onto the radar of government is easier than getting onto the radar of millions.. from that comes Support for Initiatives, and will make everything easier. (I think?)

Chris

"Anyone got any comments or added ideas for forwarding?"

Geoff,

I am very much in the habit of putting all of my ideas into the CR4 discussion threads, and at this point intend to continue to do that. Are you saying that you need/wish for ideas to be delivered to you in some other format?

Not all of my ideas are good ideas, and I like the 'reality oriented' aspect of the CR4 community, and rely on them to provide corrective feedback to my ideas. I think this is one of the features that makes CR4 such a valuable source of information, as it tends to deliver an 'adjusted' perception of engineering issues (and politicial and social) which is based on science, experience, and practicality.

I suggest that the 'container' for our ideas is rightly this CR4 thread, and that you should consider providing your contacts with primarily the link to this thread, while explaining this and other benefits of the CR4. You will find that we are largely a highly interactive and thoughtful set, and can provide answers and responses to the questions they might have.

The CR4 layout and design of discussion thread has proven itself, in my humble opinion, to be THE best method of hosting a knowledge dialog, on virtually any topic, and that trying to transfer to another system will provide less value to your 'customers', if you get my drift. Everything they need is right here.

However, if you think this is insufficient for your needs or the needs of presentation, (which I acknowledge it may not be) please let us know..

respectfully,

Chris

Successful campaigns use or get into the papers, on the radio, and on TV.

In my tweets on Twitter, I mention CR4.

We must get the Haitian people to ask for the containers.

Radio there is important.

Whomever can get on the radio in Haiti, and point the Haiti people towards shipping container housing will dramatically move our concepts forward.

Even the people of Haiti are asking for tents.

The New York Times has reported that wood and corrigatted steel are being sent, but good God almighty we know structures made from that, are not likely to do much better than tents.

Journalists simply seem unaware, as much as USAID of the option Shipping Containers Represent.

Any opportunity any of us might have to make those working in the media aware of the option will go far.

Chris,

you make a point on emphasising the CR4 Community as a source of THINK TANK ideas, yes we as a community should push this.

This I feel should include a way for GOOGLE to recognize CR4 organizational benefits world wide for problem solving in there search engine files.

Anyone got any ideas how to achieve this?

Geoff Daly NH

Geoff-

You have made great strides in getting CR4 recognized in the power centers, and this is no small feat. We may not have reached "critical mass" with regards to Haiti as yet, but, thanks to you, a lot more people are taking notice...

Unfortunately, the time to think about these things is BEFORE they are needed. There will be other crises (I would not be surprised to see another one in Haiti in the near future), and all this effort may prove beneficial in helping mitigate the suffering during future events. And, we may yet see people come round, as they begin to see how futile their current efforts are going to be (unfortunately, after needlessly squandering scarce resources on non-solutions...)

We have to keep doing what we do...

Charlie, Yes, yes, and yes. GA. Stu.

As far as I understand it Google does not like to be manipulated, and has programs that work against that.

From what I understand, your status on Google comes about from interest in your work.

You have done well and we are impressed and working with you.

However Geoff, CR4 has never ever before made any concerted effort to bother much with many outside its membership or ostensible borders.

Even I would rather be important than famous, since fame simply is stupid to seek.

Really we have no organization.

There is a strong love of cats among CR4ers that illustrates a less than predictable or necessarily controllable set of individuals.

Really not to easy to herd.

If our controlling Mentor and Autocrat Chris Leonard did not see all the engineering work going on in this breakout thread, he'd have yanked it.

So if the work is good, it will find its place.

GA, all the way.

Astonishing clarity and insight Chris. I will comment in detail later, Ky.

Actually I was hoping that the Clemson U designs would represent something standard.

There are within this thread a good number of links to companies that have standard designs, like infratech, and we have also seen youtube video produced by Bob Vila, showcasing the work of another company.

In a way these links represent the bibliography possible in the indexed version of the thread to point to as proof of concept, and standardized designs.

Transcendian-

"In a way these links represent the bibliography possible in the indexed version of the thread to point to as proof of concept, and standardized designs."

Very important part of the document under way. By the way, Chris has offered to help with the document- I sent him some sections to start consolidating.

Anyone else want to help, there's lots of work left to do...

Yes please!

Geoff, Well done, champion effort. GA Stu.

I was just on the USAID website

I suggest we send emails to their contact link

pinquiries@usaid.gov

The content could be similar to Tran's press release

provide a link active or otherwise to this thread

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/49244#newcomments

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/49244#newcomments

send the same letter to your friends & family, just like you might a joke or picture

don't stop with usaid send a copy to your representatives

here's a site that will let you contact as many as you wish in the US

http://directory.usayfoundation.org/

not from the US no problem just pick a state

The conventional wisdom used to be that every call or letter equaled 10'000 voters

Let's go viral on their asses

Garthh-

We are in the process of consolidating/condensing this blog, and the final document would present these ideas in a bit easier format for people like USAID to comprehend. This blog has gotten to be a bit unwieldy of late, and I am sure a lot of people with interests in the subject do not have the time to wade through nearly 500 posts to capture the essence...

When we are finished, we will make this document available to all, with the idea that it be dissemenated as widely as possible, to as many of the decision-makers as we can find...

CW

I know

I was just adding some avenues to help fight the political battle

We need a 100 word summary for wide distribution, 1000 word for a white paper.

The wiki page or some other can be used for a comprehensive overview also

GA. great link

I dunno about riting tho ... I found this on STL Engineer's profile (did he disappear?)

some days I can hardly spel.

Upon graduation from Engineering School I wrote my family:

"For yeerz a go I coont evin spel Innjenear. Now i are won!"

Chris

Here is a brief history of Haiti to 2004... bless them for the troubles they've seen...

What is the electrical standard, if any in Haiti? Is it 220 50 hertz, or 120 60 hertz?

Moving forward we need to know this.

Last ship I was on, was 480, 220.

Hertz I didn't grasp. Fed 110 and used old inplace bulbs to see. Yellow light.

Will be good going in to know what electricity is required, or available.

Will help in specifying welding machines, and even any other tools dependent on electrical supplies, if only for battery charging of screw guns.

We can put this question over in General, or Electrical Engineering.

We do need to know this, as we move forward.

According to Internet sources, Haiti uses the US 110/220 60 Hz standard.

Good Job Trans

Well Chris, it's a press release sort of thing, jargon wise.

We could always do the good cop bad cop thing, and send a sweet one, and a harder one.

Neither version, mine or yours is off the site yet anyway.

As most of you know I just use the computer as a typewriter.

Hell it's a victory if I send a picture!

I did just get some news that prompted me to tweet suggesting that the Haitians just go lay claim to shipping containers at their ports.

Time to play hardball.

It's warrior poet stuff.

I did not mention CR4.

I did mention baseball.

What inning are we in?

"It's warrior poet stuff."

I refer to my previous post about Search Engines. If we can raise our visibility, by interlinking with other blogs or web based news engines, then we can get more traffic, and then carry more clout when we speak. I wrote to Admin about it to see if they have some advice before I go off half cocked.

I agree with CW that our ideas may not bear fruit in time to be implemented for Haiti, but if we continue on with our development, it will ripen in its own time. We grieve, yet we believe.

Chris

I am sure that is controversial, but your heart is in the right place.

Chris

Trans, Good stuff, GA Stu.

The Press Release is not to be sent out. Chris Leonard advises that there are severe problems with it.

Guys,

her is Richard Martins link for his work with shipping containers in Haiti and other places...Richard has been in touch with Doug Hecker at Clemson University and is willing to speak to anyone involved in CR4...look at the school he bult in Haiti

Thank You for visiting "GLOBAL CONTAINER PARTNERSHIPS.COM" formerly "GBS-GPC.COM" We changed the name to more properly reflect our mission and what we do. Richard J. L. Martin 4787 Riverview Road Atlanta, GA 30327 USA Phone: 770.952.1604 770.952.1604 Ngpinc5@comcast.net Emma Thompson's Journey, Container Exhibit Highlights Plight of Trafficking Victims UNEXPECTED WAKE UP CALL, Brian Williams, Notes from the field. October 28, 2009 www.cherylrose.net ©2009-2010

Geoff Daly NH

I see that Chris is looking into using the containers somehow regarding wastewater disposal. This has to be addressed sooner or later or otherwise you will run into a whole host of health problems associated with untreated human waste.....mainly infectious water borne diseases.

You could always do what the US Army has done in the field for decades: (A). Either employ slit trenches or (B). Utilize formal "Short Term" Latrines.

With the latrines, you could use the containers with some sort of toilet holes & seats installed. Below each waste disposal hole you place a 1/2 55-gallon drum. When the waste level is high enough in the kettle, you have to pull it out of the container, pour in some diesel fuel and ignite it. It isn't pretty or smells all that grand, but it gets the job done until such time as a formal Infrastructure is constructed. LOW TECH & KISS APPROACH!!!!

As potable water facilities, the US Army has water treatment equipment that is quite high tech and unbelievable in terms of treatability...reliable too. Imagine the worse skunk water swamp water you could ever come across and these treatment systems will produce safe potable water that's clear as a bell!!! I know these systems work as I've drank water from them in all sorts of climates around the world. Problem is getting the US Army to cough-up a few of them for emergency relief. They're very expensive and hard to replace, so they'll most likely have to be held under control and guard of Army personnel. For storage purposes you can utilize the rubber water storage bladders that the US Army has as well. Many of these used in both Gulf Wars & Afghanistan Wars. Also, you can always deploy US Army "Water Buffalo's" which are tow-able. Again, all of these pieces of equipment will have to be held under armed guard.

Just some more info for y'all, I'll try to drag out the USACE Field Manual (FM) regarding disposal of wastewater in the field (IF I can find it in all the Godzillion storage totes and boxes)....

excellent. GA.

Capt. Moosie-

I suspect the Army's water treatment systems are also quite energy-intensive...Teaching people to boil their water before using it would be a lot more cost-effective. Properly sited rain catchment systems, especially in the tropics, can be a reasonable and affordable solution- the bladders are a good idea for this...

The Canadian D.A.R.T. team is already there, 50 thousand litres of water a day, infrastructure repair teams and medical tents, in place and on the ground.

Already git'n 'er dun by!

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/01/13/f-disasters-military-dart.html

Minimum water requirements per person per day for survival are on the order of 2 liters per day. There are perhaps 1,000,000 people left in the city in need of water. While I am sure there are other sources available, 50,000 liters a day is a drop in the bucket compared to the 2,000,000 liters per day required. I do not mean to belittle the efforts being pursued, but we need to keep the magnitude of the crisis in mind...

I believe Potters for Peace had made something that cheaply purified water, and then there was a guy in India that had made something that worked and cost about 15 bucks.

Again I have to ask Garthh if he remembers that reference from the years we spent on Sustainable Engineering, and APIX, for it was therein these issues were addressed.

It was unfortunate that the Carl Vinson pulled out, for it was producing good water from desalinization.

There is a mothballed nuclear powered Aircraft Carrier that is capable of producing a great deal of potable water, but I can't remember the name of it.

Ah, again, ah, well, the press release thing is a complete failure on my part.

Somewhere, on one of my computers, I have some literature about a "personal water purifier" that sounds similar to what you describe as being developed by Potters for Peace- it may be the same device...

With regards to local temperature, I doubt that daytime temperatures exceed the mid 90's (Fahrenheit) due to the proximity to the ocean, if my experiences here in Panama are similar to Port-au-Prince.

Water contamination- unfortunately, it will be the infants that go first, due to dehydration resulting from diarhea, again based on personal experience. It seems that as surface water becomes contaminated (in the cases I am familiar with, resulting from increases in pig farming on the river banks), mothers who bathe in the water contaminate their breasts, and a suckling babe picks this up- usually something like cryptosporidium or Giardia, which have a spore phase that can survive and be transmitted out of water. Adequate boiling of water can destroy the spores, apparently, but this doesn't help the infants...

There are no US Navy "nuclear" powered aircraft carriers in mothballs as we speak. Actually, there have never been a US Navy nuclear carrier decommissioned to date. The oldest nuke carrier is the USS Enterprise (CVN-65), and she is still in the active fleet as far as I know, as well as the entire class of Nimitz nuke carriers.

You may be thinking of a former Forrestall class carrier, such as the USS Kittyhawk, USS Constellation, USS Saratoga, USS Forrestal, USS America and the stop-gap class USS JFK. All of these carriers were non-nuke and have been decommissioned and are either awaiting the scrappers, a floating museum (or promised as one) or being placed in the Ready Reserve Fleet (mothballs). I don't doubt for one moment that the US Navy will reject relinquishing any carrier, as even in mothballed state they're too valuable to let go. So, I wouldn't even venture down that path in search of a ready made water producing plant. Even if the Navy would hypothetically let one go just for shits and giggles, it'd take months to get the systems up and running, let alone make the entire ship seaworthy.........it's just a pipe dream and wishful thinking, so let it be realities being what they are........

Agreed, crypto and Giardia are going to be some of the very nasty water borne diseases that could pose medical problems on Haiti. Let's not forget that there are water borne paracites too, since this is the tropics after all. And we haven't even begun to talk about the really nasty diseases like dysentary, etc.

Don't know anything about these other water treatments systems that you guys are proposing. Could someone post a link about them and their respective specs and treatment performances? I'd like to review the mentioned systems if at all possible, okay?

I fear we're getting off the well beaten path as far as the blog discussion goes......KISS principle and keep it straight and narrow on the helm...............

Ohhhh sugar!!! Forgot to mention the USS Ranger!!!!! MY BAD!!!!!!!!!!

I swear I think there is one mothballed nuke, but I'm in the middle of fact checking.

First check actually implied that the Ronald Reagan was decommissioned, and that is false.

In the middle of checking facts.

Will get back.

As said nuke or not nuke, desalinization of water is a temp solution, similar to tents.

You are correct that no US nuclear powered aircraft carriers are in mothballs.

The Enterprise is the ship I was thinking of, but it is not yet retired, but only slated for retirement in either 2013, 2014, or 2015.

As far as whether or not the US would allow any alternate use or control of a nuclear powered ship, makes sense to me that they wouldn't.

Of the 62 Los Angeles Class Subs, 17 are retired, and 45 are still in service.

So then I am in agreement that little is to be gained in pursuit of desalinization using nuclear powered aircraft carriers that are not available, and won't be, ever.

There was a significant flaw in my thinking anyway, as for any success massive amounts of power were required for both the desalinization and pumping up hill.

I failed to observe one of even my own rules: Don't work against gravity.

The Carl Vinson did supply an amount of water, but it left station a few days ago.

So then the Micro Infrastructure System is good to continue to pursue.

We may also want to look to see if there is a creek sensible to dam to create a reservoir now.

Start building your reservoirs on tops of hills, with covers designed to catch the rain water. It is going to start raining soon.

Some time ago, we did a 20,000 gallon fiberglass tanks at one of my sites- the thing was actually built in civilization, then cut up into manageable sections, shipped by boat to the site, then reassembled, using fiberglass matting and resin to put it all together again. Had to pour a pretty stout concrete pad for it (probably over-designed).

Actually, if they were readily at hand, the bladders in the containers would serve the same purpose, if the containers are fitted with rain catching roofs.

Why on top of hills?

1. Less chance of contamination through contact with runoff.

2. Gravity feed- you don't need pumps to get the water to the people...

25000 gallon water tank http://www.interstateproducts.com/pillow_tanks.htm

http://www.modutank.com/history.htm

Do you need 1000, 100000 or 1,000,000 gallon bladder tanks http://www.macraesbluebook.com/search/product_company_list.cfm?prod_code=7641000

bywire,

the ModuTank system are the same people I used for a major power plant job in Saudi for 3+ million gals needed for Hydro-flushing of all the plants piping. Went up in around four days from scratch, was then run through a RO system afterwards and left there to supply the needed onsite water....they did build a roof of corrugated steel over it to reduce evaporation (85 feet x 36 feet and 12 feet tall, lined with an EPDM rubber).....good if used at a main water plant to store and then use to fill portable systems..Frac tanks, flex tanks etc.

The USAID pillows you show are from Iraq and did not last due to no UV protection in coating...apparently about 8 months...approx $650 each for 1500 pillows.

But even so good pick up on how to store water other than the Frac tanks.

ATL still waiting for there order from the NGO quoted 14 days ago...will take then min 10 days to complet order if received...yes ATL is going to give Haiti orders high priority no matter what...great for them for stepping up.

good idea for consideration as apart of what we have all put forward...thanks bywire

Geoff Daly NH

Bwire,

Bob, my fingers probably slipped, did not mean to add the "Y".

Modu-Tanks could be placed up hill just as CaptMoosie and some others said...let mother gravity work for us....ther are a number of resonably high hills in and around the city where pretty big units could be placed.

Someone also mentioned maybe we should start another thread just on water but associated with the container thread as we are now branching out a bit?.

Geoff Daly NH

CW said put reservoirs at the tops of hills.

I've said, Micro Infrastructure Systems in conjunction to Shipping Container Housing for Haiti, make sense, for they have no infrastructure to speak of, and a house with water, gas, and electricity is what a home is like.

Within the Sustainable Engineering Blog somewhere, are water systems, gas systems, and even food growing systems.

- notable among the food systems are simply stacks of tires filled with earth to grow potatoes.

I've long worked with Garthh and know he can find these things from years of our work here.

It is too bad Sparkstation is not around anymore, for he would straighten us out right quick on the issues of electricity.

There are even on this site links to septic tank batteries consisting of anode and cathode rods driven into septic tanks.

I've been around here since 2007 and half the time we don't even go look back at what the sponsor Globalspec offers.

This is not to mention how much has already been done or discussed and discovered in all of the other sections.

I wasn't even all for Shipping Containers until I found out there was nothing else really available to do the job. It's just a strong box. That's all it is. There are plenty of them. They are cheap.

They do need gas, and water, and electricity to be real homes.

CW has worked to condense the thread, which is one of the most focused of all time on CR4.

Garthh and Chrisg, and Geoff are involved in that, which is very good.

This is the first time in my knowledge that CR4 has attempted anything outside its borders.

Much groundwork and foundational work is already in place in the archives.

Of the people I know and have known here Garthh and Del are most equipped to pull it all together due to what is called Institutional Memory, or knowledge.

I am for doing things in order, and was not initially for Shipping Containers as perfect, but found that they were the best option in consideration of what was, and will be the realities. It is important to know that folding shipping containers made of composites, as profiled in this thread, make the shipping containers we are discussing obsolete.