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spacecannon
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Shipping Container Housing

01/16/2010 12:05 PM

I have a civil engineer friend whoose dream it is to design and build shipping container housing for general use and for emergency use, like an instant city for Haiti. Im trying to motivate him to live his dream, so what does everyone think about container housing?

spacecannon

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cwarner7_11
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#1850
In reply to #1847
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Re: We Should Play To Our Strengths

04/19/2010 12:48 AM

If one builds only the frame of the geodesic dome, then the concrete cloth would be very appropriate and quick for construction (the frame could consist of pre-cut pieces that just bolt together). For the modular walls, here in Panama (and I assume many other places as well, since Panama is not really on the forefront of construction technology), a popular construction method is to erect a frame, then fill in with styrofoam panels covered with wire mesh, which then serves as a base for conventional cement-based stucco sort of covering. Goes up really fast, and, assuming you have a good frame and foundation, it appears to be pretty secure (at least, better than using what passes for concrete block in this part of the world).
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Garthh
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#1852
In reply to #1850

Re: We Should Play To Our Strengths

04/19/2010 1:00 AM

I would like to do a CEB stub wall with rice straw walls & a metal roof house or shop

Domes aren't real practical for families with children

ya can't tell em to go stand in the corner when they act up
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Geoff Daly
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#1843
In reply to #1836
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Re: We Should Play To Our Strengths

04/18/2010 9:25 PM

Garth,

Sorry did not see your posting...good suggestion and as you had suggested in your prior lists of things going forward....schools- tech centers etc.

Right now there are more than 15,000 school buildings either colapsed or damaged ....they showed on You-tube where all classes are in a set of UN tents in the courtyard of the school...all girls. Shipping containers as per Richard Martins design would be better.

Also the main Hospital Sacre Coure is so badly damaged only have 4 ER OP rooms out of 9 safe...even doing surgery in makshift tents outside the ER entrance (see MSNBC for report under "making a difference".....Chris you Hospital concept would have worked easily...no concrete to collapse etc) also doing upto 15 amputations per day.

Geoff

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chrisg288
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#1817
In reply to #1810
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Re: Shipping Ideas That Can't Be Contained in Standard Housing

04/15/2010 2:14 PM

Hi Stuey,

I wasn't trying to criticize when I said rebels, but that was just a theme from the movie. I will also admit to myself having a rebellious streak. I appreciate and respect your contribution. By posting about the movie, I was actually admitting I may have gotten the playfulness aspect wrong about what was being posted.. (not catching the wave.. too much in my head) Again, I apologize.

GA for your insights and I applaud the conviction you have expressed.

Chris
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Anonymous Poster
#1727
In reply to #1722
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Re: Shipping Ideas That Can't Be Contained in Standard Housing

04/12/2010 8:12 PM

"Now we need someone with OCD..."

AcronymDefinition
OCDObsessive-Compulsive Disorder
OCDOver the Counter Drugs
OCDOrtho Clinical Diagnostics, Inc
OCDOff-Chip Driver
OCDOsteochondritis Dissecans
OCDOffice of Community Development (USDA)
OCDOffice of Civil Defense
OCDOil Conservation Division
OCDOn Chip Debugger
OCDOperational Concept Description
OCDOxford Classical Dictionary
OCDOffice of Child Development
OCDOffice of Civilian Defense (USA)
OCDOperational Concept Document
OCDOrder of Discalced Carmelites (Catholic Order; The Secular Order of Carmel)
OCDOut of Cell Delineation
OCDOsteochondral Defect
OCDOffice of Commonwealth Development (Massachusetts)
OCDOffshore and Coastal Dispersion
OCDOfficial Catholic Directory
OCDOcean Chemistry Division
OCDOffice of Coal Development
OCDOrdre des Cols Durs (France cycling club)
OCDOperational Capability Demonstration
OCDOff Campus Dons
OCDObsessive Cullen Disorder
OCDOrganized Crime Division
OCDOahu Civil Defense (Hawaii)
OCDOptical Concentration Device
OCDObject Component Desktop
OCDOptical Communications Demonstrator
OCDOkanogan Conservation District
OCDOffice of the Center Director
OCDOfficer Career Development
OCDObscure Character of the Day
OCDOrganizing for Community Development
OCDOverseas Control Date
OCDOffensive Central Defender (gaming)
OCDOver-Constrained Dispatch
OCDOptimal Coherent Decomposition
OCDOccupational Cerviobrachial Disorder
OCDOperator Control Display (AEGIS Combat Training System ACTS)
OCDOptically Coupled Device
OCDOrder Configuration and Distribution
OCDOrdnance Clearance Detachment
OCDOver-Complete Dictionary
OCDOperations Capability Development
OCDObsessive Clinton Disorder (humor)
OCDOil Content Detector
OCDOver Cleaning Disorder (humor)
OCDOperations Control Directive (NASA)
OCDOrdnance Classification of Defects
OCDOperational Control Document
OCDOrdered Constant Depth
OCDOffshore Centre Denmark

I see one that fits, but which did you mean Mrs R?

Kyzine
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Mrs.Rabbit
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#1729
In reply to #1727

Re: Shipping Ideas That Can't Be Contained in Standard Housing

04/12/2010 8:20 PM

LOLOLOL Geez, I can find several that would work!

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cwarner7_11
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#1733
In reply to #1727

Re: Shipping Ideas That Can't Be Contained in Standard Housing

04/12/2010 8:38 PM

What is an "Object Component Desktop"?
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sue
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#1728
In reply to #1722
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Re: Shipping Ideas That Can't Be Contained in Standard Housing

04/12/2010 8:17 PM

You are too Sue.
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Mrs.Rabbit
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#1730
In reply to #1728

Re: Shipping Ideas That Can't Be Contained in Standard Housing

04/12/2010 8:22 PM

Oh. I am Sue. You are Sue too...two? Who? oooooooh.

I guess I am schizophrenic...are you too two?

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sue
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#1731
In reply to #1730

Re: Shipping Ideas That Can't Be Contained in Standard Housing

04/12/2010 8:24 PM

I'm beside myself.
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Anonymous Poster
#1694
In reply to #1687
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/10/2010 3:02 PM

Hear, here, Mrs. Hair!

B. Siegel
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Mrs.Rabbit
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#1696
In reply to #1694

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/10/2010 3:17 PM

Why thank yeeeewwwww, Mr. Bugsy! I do try.....

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cwarner7_11
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#1698
In reply to #1694

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/10/2010 4:11 PM

That's HARE, which is usually covered with hair, until ready to eat...
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Anonymous Poster
#1699
In reply to #1698

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/10/2010 4:16 PM

Oh, reilly?

B. Siegel
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Mrs.Rabbit
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#1700
In reply to #1698

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/10/2010 4:34 PM

I use liquid plummer gel, myself...ooops, wrong thread...I'm going to take a bath...

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Tornado
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#1697
In reply to #1687
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/10/2010 3:33 PM

Parody may not HAVE a roll in here, but it was clearly ON a roll.... (and Incognitozine did a great job). [Editor Crankshaft]

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Transcendian
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#1701
In reply to #1686
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/10/2010 11:24 PM

I don't know if I've ever really read a government report or not. I am suspicious of newspaper reports with too many acronyms like CIA, DOD, USACE, NSA, which are familiar. There were many prior to the war in Irag in papers with acronyms I'd not hear of. I was suspicious of those as planted propaganda, badly written partly for evidence of insider speech patterns among functionaries for hire.

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Tornado
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#1688

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/10/2010 11:45 AM

http://www.bullshitbingo.net/cards/bullshit/

The way this works is that audience members are issued Bingo cards with buzzwords like this. Then, when Incognitozine delivers this talk, pretty soon five people will simultaneously complete their cards, and will all yell out "Bullsh!t" at once.

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Transcendian
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#1690
In reply to #1688

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/10/2010 12:46 PM

CW, Garthh, and Chrisg, have worked on editing this particular thread since standardized functional housing has been, and will be important. This particular Thread has been somewhat unique as far as CR4 is concerned. Some of it has been enjoyable, and some of it hasn't. As a real taste of Think Tank work, I'd say that for the participants, and myself it qualifies.

CW did say that posts that were way off topic or spurious did make it harder on him to put it into a useful form. I myself try to help my friends and not make things harder for them.

Parody and satire and plain old jokes are somewhat helpful in a meeting. The Bath Breaking Technique thread has nearly been a parrallel development, and a better place to write stuff that may well be inspired by serious thinking about concrete things, or even gossip.

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cwarner7_11
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#1693
In reply to #1688

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/10/2010 1:39 PM

Is this the same game as Congressmen yelling out "Liar" during the President's State of the Union Address?
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Tornado
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#1695
In reply to #1693

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/10/2010 3:08 PM

Interesting question, but I don't see these ideas as closely related. I'm no fan of "Obama Care"; I would rather ditch my current dopey health insurance and just "go bare," but I may be obliged against my will to buy health insurance, anyway. But the Congressman's outburst was out of line, and not in the vein of a humorous shout of "BS!"

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packrat561
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#1705

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/12/2010 12:12 AM

Speaking of spicy food, just heard on National Public Radio, that a restaurant is serving a dish that contains the ghost chili.

Never heard of the ghost chili?

Me neither, until I heard it mentioned on NPR ( that's an acronym for National Public Radio, THE MNGMT.).

So this here pepper has a Scoville rating of something in the order of one million, the only thing hotter is a certain Pennsylvania writer, to put it in perspective, the jalepeno is around 50K Scovill Units, that's like three times as hot .

The restaurant is requiring anyone ordering this item , to sign a waiver, holding the establishment blameless in case of organ loss.

I was thinking that the UN could combine the pepper, the USACE and Sean Penn, attach model rocket motors to it and send it to Haiti to solve this crisis.

Signed,

Corporal Punishment

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Garthh
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#1706
In reply to #1705

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/12/2010 12:31 AM

or was it?
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Stueywright
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#1707
In reply to #1705

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/12/2010 1:45 AM

So, you don't mind the odd sardine , then?

My CO, General Muckup, says to tell you he's got a suggestion. Market canned sardines in ghost chili sauce.

signed,

Major Catasttrophe. Ret'd.

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Mrs.Rabbit
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#1711
In reply to #1707

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/12/2010 10:46 AM

That's the ticket! Yummm...

If the ghost chili hurts that much going down...

I'm just saying...

2 ply is your friend...and Tucks...

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Anonymous Poster
#1709
In reply to #1705

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/12/2010 6:19 AM

Major Packrat, I am frequently in awe of the knowledge you bring to the Forum.

Without this latest post I never would have realised the potential of this plant.

'Ghost Chili': Military To Weaponize World's Hottest Chili

FARK (Forces Armées Royales Khmères) is forever in your debt.

Cornale Khymer
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#1717
In reply to #1705

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/12/2010 5:02 PM

Stepped over the line now with me Capt. I tried to encourage privately peace, even today. Even yesterday.

If anybody has been abusive here, you have. Only reason I ever defended you at all was cause I understood you were a sick high blood pressure type come out of nothing but autocratic ways of doing things, stuck in a bullying mode, who has likely burned every bridge behind him due to inadequate humor, and outright self destructiveness that makes him useless no matter what he knows to any organization that requires that people work together.

Go for a drive. If in fact the offices at Troy open you with open arms and desire that you control all done and said on CR4, well its time completely to abandon the site by all with any desire to have a community worth having.

You have crossed a line with me with your buffoonery and bombast, insults, and stupidity unparalleded in the history of CR4 as I know it.

You single handedly will go down as the most destructive personality here on this site when it was at its finest. I truly hate you now for this, and consider you less than even worthy of pity.

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ky
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#1718
In reply to #1717

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/12/2010 5:42 PM

After he left the building he missed the standing ovation.

Hope you get better soon, Ky.

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Transcendian
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#1719
In reply to #1717

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/12/2010 5:53 PM

Yeah, I've cast stones.

Don't do it less it's warranted.

In fact while all most are suspect, I am actually certified as sane due to Court challenges. I've been spied on covertly and overtly more than once from High School on.

If I have a problem I don't go to see a shrink, I do what sane people do, and go see a lawyer.

Bet you in any shrinks office would end up in a mental ward.

I did defend you for Codes. I did defend you for simple grid work as done by most builders. I even think the common use of Chorine is practical, and have said so.

You have been the distracting anchor, and there it is, nothing for it, good riddance.

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Garthh
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#1720
In reply to #1705

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/12/2010 6:39 PM

Since OBO already pulled you last rant I'll reply the remaining [for the time being] one

Will you really leave us in peace?

You claim to be able to "take it"

but run crying everytime anyone dares disagrees with you

still waiting for the documents you promised in posts 501 & 896

If this diabetic heel wound was closed-up I'd be there not getting things done,

I'm sure you would, just like the good bureaucrat you are

And just one more thing you closet clowns: Don't you ever f**king forget it was me that first suggested the use of shipping containers being used for shelter (in a different blog prior to spacecannon's original posting). I am after all due that small amount of credit. And thanks for receiving no thanks.

So you invented the entire industry did you?

This is the most important part for you it seems...

Once again you choose for all this to be public

Happy?
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Garthh
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#1724
In reply to #1720

There's no Housing an Enormous Ego

04/12/2010 8:10 PM

The document thing is just an indication of your level of responsibility.

You have most certainly been a disruption.

You're certainly guilty of being a hot head

You certainly are a bully

You once again seek to denigrate & humiliate, anyone who disagrees with you or your distorted perceptions

Please do not speak for other contributers to the thread.

a battalion of emoticons would look more like this
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#1760
In reply to #1758

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/12/2010 11:46 PM

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dvmdsc
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#1764
In reply to #1758

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/13/2010 1:07 AM

This is a must see. Thanks Chris, maybe we should all forget our quarrels for while and use this energy in a positive way. Everyone can have a bad day. GA

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Garthh
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#1773
In reply to #1758

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/13/2010 2:52 PM

Uh

Chris you blew up the format again

Good pic though
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chrisg288
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#1774
In reply to #1773

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/13/2010 3:06 PM

I did that on purpose. I call it 'the big picture'. I figured that if this thread is going to run off into the rhubarb, that my contribution couldn't make it any worse.

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#1775
In reply to #1774

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/13/2010 9:14 PM

Check With CW. He is the new Prez.

I doubt he will approve.

As far as Shipping Container Housing.

Looks like the US Military wants to keep theirs.

The pictures of Haiti, break my heart.

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#1776
In reply to #1774

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/13/2010 11:41 PM

There are those of us that sometimes become so frustrated with the truth on the ground, that the only defense of sanity is a bit of levity. It is not intended to make light of a tragic situation, but to ease the personal pain one feels...
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chrisg288
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#1777
In reply to #1776

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/14/2010 12:09 AM

I knew that. It is why I did not overtly criticize the festivities. I feel it too.

I think there is a certain power that emanates from the mind when envisioning the future. If you have seen or read 'the Secret' you will know what I mean. I don't mean to go all crunchy granola - new age here, but I think that this is true, and that subsequently, the best thing we can do is maintain our vision and stay the course. just keep authoring, drawing, and talking to people we know about it. The clearer our vision becomes, the more it will become a reality.

The money people think that money controls the world. Money is only a representation of value, and creative minds are the sources of all the value in the world, other than what Nature has provided. Therefore, we represent and define a really excellent bundle of value, in the design and usage of containerized housing for disaster shelter, which can be used adaptively in sustainable recovery.

Stay the course.

(now lets all hold hands and sing)

Chris
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#1778
In reply to #1777

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/14/2010 12:15 AM

I think the best thing we can do is post 16 more times so we'll be off this page

or at the very least use lots of hard breaks
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#1779
In reply to #1778

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/14/2010 12:44 AM

I actually made the big image into my desktop background. I spend time looking at it and wondering what would it be like to be forced to live in a tent city with my children, hunger, thirsty, and despairing.

In this case, I think Hope is like the proverbial grain of mustard seed. and I think we offer that. If we descend into insanity, we help no one. If someone looks at the picture I posted, they will at least think we were aware of the issues faced by the people there. I apologize for posting it, but it is my visceral reaction to sgt Pepper.

Chris
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#1780
In reply to #1774

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/14/2010 7:57 AM

Chris,

Will you puhleez stop playing with the controls. l<------------------------------------------------------->l ???

Im sorry of you take a dim view of the levity I started, but, I thought, and still do think that it's about time someone , somewhere did something with all of this information we have amassed, and it was out of frustration that I embarked on that course. ( notice that you didn't want to be an Office holder. Why not. Charlie is a good Prez. I'm sure he'd look after you.)

On a seriouser note, thanks for the disturbing view of all that which we would like to eliminate. Of your last post, I too, am very thankful that the 'cards' have determined that I'm where I am. We had to do it rough, one time, but we weren't in an earthquake zone coming into storm season, under 'canvas' ( Oh, if it would be canvas) with little or no food nor water. Not to mention being polluted out by PET bottles.

To a better world, Stu.

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#1781
In reply to #1780

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/14/2010 11:07 AM

Well put, Stuey...Sorry, Chris, but the "Big Picture" is just a major annoyance to us trying to read posts! My computer has a hard time with format changes, nd it actually threw the poor thing out of whack completely...a smaller photo, with link, ad good to go...just an FYI...

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#1782
In reply to #1780

Page Borders That Can't be Contained in Housing

04/14/2010 11:33 AM

Keep posting we're almost on the next page
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#1783

NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 11:38 AM

I was being serious about what form an ideal relief organization would take?

& at the same time washing the bad taste out of our collective mouths
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#1784
In reply to #1783

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 3:08 PM

Garth,

I believe we are on the same page here. Last week I laid out a structure for an UnCorruptible Project-Based Non-Profit Organization, that would fit well with participants from CR4. This is just an idea of mine, and is independent of anything anyone else is currently or planning on doing.

I'm emailing large versions of these images to you and others here on CR4 whom I have email addresses for. If anyone wants to see these, and didn't receive, simply PM me your email address, and I will send them to you.

The core ideas are as follows:

  • The organization is structured to execute projects.
  • Donations are made to specific projects, in terms of money, materials, tools, labour, consulting, etc.
  • A website provides a portal for all donations, and transparent tracking of the donations.
  • The website has the project management tools to allow various participants and donors to work together.
  • Project Proposals are also organized and voted on, on the website.
  • Fundraising uses the projects on the website acting as presentation materials, both of the ongoing needs, and accomplishments. (Thereby allowing anyone to help with fundraising by directing and showing people the website. This enables 'viral' fundraising.)
  • Recognition is part of the transparency (if desired by the donors) as they can be listed, showing their donations.
  • Projects are structured to follow an ISO style quality plan, so that continuous improvement, feedback, and auditing are inherent.
  • The organization's operations are intended to interact with the public for funding. (Bypassing the institutionalized inefficiency)
  • All positions are volutary, with critical positions being voted upon for terms. (There are no wages, salaries, or bonuses)
  • All operations are run by controlled procedures, so there is no 'greasing the wheels' outside of that. Review & Audit processes ensure continued compliance.
  • For projects involving life safety, accredited professionals must approve the projects. (ie. housing = structural eng.)
  • Projects are verified independently to ensure that donations are used as planned, and verify customer satisfaction.

One other idea that I have involves Voting on ideas and issues here on CR4. It is possible to use a post to act as a collector of votes. (Yea or Nay) For example, I will create 2 posts as a voting booth (One for Yes and one for No) after this post. Particpants will be able to discretely vote yes or no as to whether this idea is good or not, without having to reveal their identity. They can post to this independently and express an opinion if they wish. In this way, we can enact a decision making capacity for ideas presented.

Chris
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#1785
In reply to #1784

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 3:12 PM

If you agree that this IS an idea worth developing, please vote GA with the button, and assign a Good Answer. If you disagree, please refer to the subsequent post. (do not use the 'off topic' button to vote as it interferes with the statistics)

This will show your support and help statistically track the support for decision making purposes, for any organization that may wish to implement this, or review this. This is important that you vote.

Thank you for your participation.
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#1786
In reply to #1784

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 3:14 PM

If you agree that this is NOT an idea worth developing, please vote GA with the button, and assign a Good Answer. If you disagree, please refer to the subsequent post. (do not use the 'off topic' button to vote as it interferes with the statistics)

This will show your support and help statistically track the support for decision making purposes, for any organization that may wish to implement this, or review this. This is important that you vote.

Thank you for your support.
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#1788
In reply to #1786

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 3:52 PM

How will you know if we're participating or supporting ?

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#1790
In reply to #1788

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 4:16 PM

Hi Kris,

I don't have your email... or Sue or Mrs Rabbit or Bwire and several others.

At any rate, my thinking with the voting was that if you were a Yea, that you would hit GA on that post, and the system will keep track of GA's (I should have changed the title) and if you were a Nay, that you would hit GA on that post, and the system will track that. (I should have changed the title)

Ideally, CR4 admin and programming would pick up on this idea if it were to turn into something useful, and build us a better decision making mechanism...

so I'm sort of prototyping here.

If you were particpating or supporting the Foundation, you would be a participant if you were providing labour or project management and you would be a Supporter if you were a donor of money, tools, or materials. etc.

anyway, this is just my thinking, and I'm putting it out here to be thrashed over, and evolved. so your input is just as valid as mine.

any closer to an answer?

Chris
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#1791
In reply to #1790

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 4:22 PM

Hold on a sec...

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#1792
In reply to #1790

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 4:22 PM

This is really driving me nuts...

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#1793
In reply to #1790

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 4:23 PM

I just can't read the damm posts...

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#1794
In reply to #1790

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 4:26 PM

OK...new page coming up...PLEASE do not post huge format agan!

(having said that, anyone who does now is just being a jerk....)

I was just having the most difficult time following the posts, since I had to scroll sideways to read each line, and, ell, that's just annoying at best!

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#1795
In reply to #1794

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 4:29 PM

Thank God...

OK, like i said, it was very difficult to follow the idea, Chris, because I couldn't read it! Can we try again (DON'T cut and paste, since that will cause the problem all over again)?

I am interested in your idea....

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#1796
In reply to #1795

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 4:30 PM

okay

(please pm me your email)
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#1789
In reply to #1784

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 3:57 PM

I couldn't stand it so I took a stab at the format

I disagree with the all volunteer, you get what you pay for

more on that later,

building fence right now

good stuff, lets party

Last week I laid out a structure for an Incorruptible Project-Based Non-Profit Organization, that would fit well with participants from CR4.

This is just an idea of mine, and is independent of anything anyone else is currently or planning on doing.

I'm emailing large versions of these images to you and others here on CR4 whom I have email addresses for.

If anyone wants to see these, and didn't receive, simply PM me your email address, and I will send them to you.

The core ideas are as follows:

  • The organization is structured to execute projects.
  • Donations are made to specific projects, in terms of money,

materials, tools, labour, consulting, etc.

  • A website provides a portal for all donations

and transparent tracking of the donations.

  • The website has the project management tools to allow various participants

and donors to work together.

  • Project Proposals are also organized and voted on, on the website.
  • Fundraising uses the projects on the website acting as presentation materials, both of the ongoing needs, and accomplishments.
  • (Thereby allowing anyone to help with fundraising by directing and showing people the website.
  • This enables 'viral' fundraising.)
  • Recognition is part of the transparency (if desired by the donors) as they can be listed, showing their donations.
  • Projects are structured to follow an ISO style quality plan, so that continuous improvement, feedback, and auditing are inherent.
  • The organization's operations are intended to interact with the public for funding. (Bypassing the institutionalized inefficiency)
  • All positions are voluntary, with critical positions being voted upon for terms. (There are no wages, salaries, or bonuses)
  • All operations are run by controlled procedures, so there is no 'greasing the wheels' outside of that.
  • Review & Audit processes ensure continued compliance.
  • For projects involving life safety, accredited professionals must approve the projects. (ie. housing = structural eng.)
  • Projects are verified independently to ensure that donations are used as planned, and verify customer satisfaction.

One other idea that I have involves Voting on ideas and issues here on CR4.

It is possible to use a post to act as a collector of votes.

(Yea or Nay) For example, I will create 2 posts as a voting booth

(One for Yes and one for No) after this post.

Particpants will be able to discretely vote yes or no as to whether this idea is good or not, without having to reveal their identity.

They can post to this independently and express an opinion if they wish.

In this way, we can enact a decision making capacity for ideas presented.

Chris
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#1797
In reply to #1789

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 4:46 PM

Hi Garthh,

As for volunteers, I'm proposing this on the notion that when people
become entrenched in positions, that it makes that position much easier to corrupt.

A volunteer on the other hand, does not possess as much inherent power,
and therefore is annoying at worst, and hard working and effective at best.
(like people who post large pictures on cr4)

I agree with you that there are issues with volunteers with motivation and
coordination. So in terms of a middle ground solution, is there a way to
prevent appointed and paid people from becoming corrupted. Do you think my
ISO style system is sufficient? I don't. People are very creative when it
comes to embezzlement and political diffusion. (ie. if I don't get my way, no one will)

I want to help design a system that maximizes efficiency and productivity. There
are hundreds of examples that it can be done, from military to volutary (ie JPHRO),
but I want the system to survive the loss of people. I've learned that when
organizations like JPHRO are created, with a group of heros at the core, that if
you remove those people, the organizational efficiency drops dramatically. Those
people become a 'single point of failure' within the organization. ISO is system based,
not people based, for its ongoing operations.

The system maintains the visibility and transparency, and therefore retains it's
integrity, regardless of the loss of people. In this way, it survives. If the system
is structured to prevent corruption, then the organization can maintain the purity
of its original intent. (imho)

Chris.
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#1798
In reply to #1784

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 6:10 PM

Chris-

This is an excellent idea, and worthy of being pursued with all available resources. One issue however- how do we gain sufficient credibility so that the powers that be give us access to the project sites? If you will remember, only "qualified" NGO's have been allowed access to Haiti, and it wasn't the Haitian government determining who is a "qualified" NGO. Even the government agencies can't figure out among themselves who is supposed to do what, and Haiti isn't the first example of this sort of circus. Even were we to put together a group of qualified individuals, arrange to collect a large number of containers, arrange with a shipping line to deliver the containers to Haiti, we still have to have permission to operate in Haiti, or even to off-load our containers- and I suspect the outfit in Atlanta shipping all those water bottles would get precedence (and not be at all interested in using our containers to ship his water). I also suspect that those organizations currently involved would really frown on any group coming in that could actually ACCOMPLISH something- makes them look bad.

Although I bring up a major roadblock that must be overcome does not mean that I do not think the idea is not worth pursuing. In fact, you can count on me to contribute in any way I can. Just be aware of what we are really up against here...
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#1800
In reply to #1798

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 6:39 PM

Hi Charlie,

Thanks for the props.

My answer to your question is central to my proposed structure. In organizing the system around the principles laid out in ISO 9001:200x Specifications, we adopt a system that really means conformance to written standards, and continuous improvement. When this compliance to standards is auditable and public, then an organization such as I am proposing will be operating at a level well above these other organizations. In my opinion, this ISO thinking represents some seriously intelligent quality planning, so that if anyone challenges the validity of such an organization, they would find out that we have set the bar and will continue to improve it. In order to compete with us, they would have to match us for transparency and Auditability.

Additionally, what I have proposed is independent and project based. This means that we should avoid a lot of the political stir-fry that goes on, simply because we are not competing for their dollars, or their political affiliations.

Project oriented operations allow actions to be broken down and quantified. So if we are not on the list of approved aid organizations, that represents a good early project. Research into the standards of qualification to get on the list will make us aware of how that is accomplished, and allow us to exceed it.

If for example a project was to go to Haiti, and drill 25 deep wells of 300 feet or more. If we aren't using tax or others aid dollars; or other organizations political brotherhoods, but dealing with just the laws involved; then I think it is much easier to accomplish these goals. This would be especially true if there was a good track record of successful project completions, and a high public awareness of our organization and its efficiency.

Additionally, we may not have to go to Haiti. We could propose a project of building shipping container housing here in North America, and organizing shippers, but putting the delivery of completed standalone houses in the hands of the traditional aid organizations, or even the military. There are many options with a project based structure. How would the public react if they knew that one organization purpose-built a bunch of shelters for donation, and they they were left to waste?

We may not be able to help Haiti as much as we would like, but there will be other disasters, and if the organization grows as I imagine, then it could be among the first responders to those events, and therefore be able to implement solutions on the ground long before the big organizations overcome their inertia. Additionally we could simply negotiate our own arrangements with the affected governments such as Haiti, which I believe would give us permission to operate in their country. (maybe?)

Creating an organization based on a sustainable system as I have proposed increases the likelihood that we could get onto approved aid provider lists, because it would show we are in for the long run, and are person independent. It allows us to up the level of commitment without the load falling on any one person. The heaviest load should be for a project, which would fall upon a project manager who volunteered for it, with verified competency to complete the project. It should work.

Chris
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#1804
In reply to #1798

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 8:35 PM

It is a hardball world. You will not change human nature. If you want what others have, do what they do.

Money, Ideology, Compromise, and Ego motivate people.

Sex, Security, and Status, motivate people.

If you want power, you must be willing to do what is done to get it.

There are standard ways of doing this.

If you want to be an NGO, do what other NGOs, have done.

At least once a year I make a speech. At least I have written some books. At least I have shown up for a radio show. I've even had my own little newspaper.

I did invent the Pro Active Civil Demonstration, for which I did gain international press in Israel. (The message Rocket Program.)

At sometimes I have been aware that I have done these things, which are precepts serially, instead of concurrently, so that my level of effectiveness has been compromised.

Still I know the rules, which have even arisen here. Uniforms, Flags, Money, White Papers, Books, Newspapers, (or their modern equivalents), TV, Radio, and War.

Said even here I'd not go to Haiti, and buy land, and invest time and energy, if I couldn't keep it.

Last year I declared war on asteroids. Declaring war on the war on drugs would be a good one in Haiti now, wouldn't it?

Declaring war on international venal greedy corrupt politicians would be a good quick way to get my ass shot, if anybody took me and my 32 revolver seriously.

Hiding in the open only works so far.

Of non profit organizations I think very well of the American Automobile Association.

Pay 70 bucks a year, and break down on the road, or get arrested and they send a tow truck, or a tow truck and a lawyer if you get arrested.

While I am very idealistic, I've been beaten up more than once defending either myself, or somebody else.

Had beer bottles break my nose, and spent time in the hospital for another beating.

Resources of Lee, and know Grant won.

Must keep moving on the flanks.

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#1801
In reply to #1784

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 6:54 PM

(I've written to CR4 admin about this Decision Making System. If anyone has suggestions, respond to this post with them.)

Dear CR4 Admin,

I would like to propose an additional feature in the evolution of CR4. Based on the 'Voting System' I have posted to this post, I am suggesting the development of a simple voting system that users can implement at authoring-time, in order for threads such as this one, (Shipping Containers for Haiti) to resolve the great variety of suggestions into usable engineering recommendations, or for any other purpose where decision making is of value.

Additionally, if such a structure is not created, and if users were to adopt my decision making method, then it creates an artificial triple opportunity for a GA, which is in my opinion, unbalanced. Therefore, if possible, I suggest separate tracking of such decision making surveys, which does not add to (my) GA count.

I appreciate any feedback you may have.

Thank you,

Chris
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#1808
In reply to #1784

Re: NGO Housing?

04/15/2010 4:32 AM

Apart from the web based stuff this is a lot like the way charitable groups are run in the UK. This is overseen by the Charities Commission with very strict guidelines regarding the way money is spent. Charities can avoid things like company tax & must spend their cash on charitable acts or services.

Positions are all generally voluntary & everyone resigns at the end of the financial year although the same folks tend to get voted back into office because they are the ones who get the job done.

There's no compulsion to use professionals to do specific jobs but that tends to get forced on you by whoever is carrying the insurance for your activities.

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#1812
In reply to #1808

Re: NGO Housing?

04/15/2010 10:56 AM

Does Oxfam fall under the Charities Commission? They seem to be associated with building the new refugee camp on the isolated, exposed hill top...
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#1815
In reply to #1812

Re: NGO Housing?

04/15/2010 11:54 AM

Yes, their entry is here.

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#1820
In reply to #1815

Re: NGO Housing?

04/15/2010 7:38 PM

Thanks. They talk about preventing further disasters by planning for things like impending hurricanes on their web site. I just sent them a letter asking them if they think putting 38,000 people in tents on an exposed hill top a day's walk from the nearest facilities is really a good idea...
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#1821
In reply to #1820

Re: NGO Housing?

04/15/2010 7:47 PM

Jean Jeudy's telephone number is 603-645-5290. His email is Jean.jeudy@gmail.com.

I called and wrote. Got a message machine, and got a Security Guard.

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#1825
In reply to #1821

Re: NGO Housing?

04/15/2010 11:29 PM

Trans,

that is his home office No......try 603-271-3065 (is his NH State office no...call after 9:15 Am and a secretary wil answer and if not in commitee will pass through). email address is good.

Jean has been very busy with the NH state budget shortfall nd gets home late each day and he sometimes just retires to bed after eating, so can take a few days to return calls etc.

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#1823
In reply to #1812

Re: NGO Housing?

04/15/2010 11:20 PM

UN appointed...read said you must do this NOW.... Oxfam to organize and run camp; decided early- middle of last week, with CARE and one other organization involved.

Sean Penn's JP HRO camp is not following but moving somewhere else with more services etc.

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#1824
In reply to #1823

Re: NGO Housing?

04/15/2010 11:23 PM

Lesson learned-

"If you want to play, you play by our rules, whether they make any sense at all or not."

Signed, UN Relief Authority
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#1819
In reply to #1784

Re: NGO Housing?

04/15/2010 4:35 PM

Here is my new discussion thread; Proposal for CR4 Voting Feature.

As this could be used especially here, to help evaluate and clarify the body of knowledge on this thread, I hope that you all will contribute your comments and suggestions.

Chris
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#1802
In reply to #1783

Re: NGO Housing?

04/14/2010 7:24 PM

Garthh,

GA for this question. It is very 'on-point' I think. You have managed to capture
in two lines what it takes me hundreds to say. I respect your brevquot skills,
as well as the breadth of your interest and knowledge. Value is: timely, relevant,
and proportional to the need. In this post, you have captured the lack of relevancy
of current relief organizations, as well as the general tone that all intelligent
and caring people have with respect to their inefficiency.

Chris
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#1787

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/14/2010 3:51 PM

You're almost getting there Chris.....many good ideas and I'll vote GA to implement.

However, before your formally act as a collective group taking funds from the public and groups, I'd advise you to all to review the US Tax Laws and Canadian Tax Laws first. You have to establish a group with elective officers and be registered with the IRS (and possibly every state in the union) and the Canadian tax authorities as a tax-exempt entity...meaning you as a group and as individuals do not make a profit whatsoever.

You're going to have to come up with a charter and by-laws, then elect your officials. Having gone through this many times I could provide the group with a draft or two, that's IF you want it....and I don't care if several of you hate my freaking guts or not. I'm doing this so some progress is finally made to getting the "group" and it's ideas on the ground in Haiti and running....

Signed,

CaptMoosie, and to those of you that I still call friends and acquaintances you can call me "DOC", now that I've received my PhD

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#1799
In reply to #1787

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/14/2010 6:14 PM

Congratulations on the PhD.
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#1803
In reply to #1787

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/14/2010 8:08 PM

Hi Captain,

I do not disrespect you, as I've said before. (Call me a pacifist.)

I am very interested in any documentation you have. I'm all new to this, so it will probably overwhelm me.

congratulations on the PhD. (water treatment?)

Chris
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#1805
In reply to #1787

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/14/2010 11:48 PM

Congrats "DOC",

So you want to volunteer to write the 501-3C charter great if you have the prior formatting from a previous one helps a lot....is laborious I did one jointly 8 years ago.

If you do, I know someone who can speed up the final application approval with the IRS as it is all towards Haiti. If we stay within the general outline Chris has posted it should work, be nice and transparent.

Anyone else got experience or ideas for the foundation...post it or do an email to the new "DOC" and any others.

Anyone good at website designs and interfacing through links etc?

Good work lets keep going forward.

Here is the new UN camp at Corail-Cesselesse as sent to Pierre Cote transmitting via Canada to Haiti:-

Pierre,

Thanks for the below, the actual marker is slightly off ...go to the right slightly and it is the abandoned building complex (see attached)...18* 40' 18.86" N by 72* 13.48' 48.04" W. Is around as you say about 16+ Km as the crow fly's but nearly 27+ Km by road from PAP...depends which route you take Rte 1 or 3. There are no facilities and is on a wind swept section of the hills with no wind breaks or shade...surrounded by water wash-outs off the hills...note the flood diversion streams/ditches around the property. First major storm will do incredible storm damage to any tent type shelter, due to the hill exposure, appears no planned protection is being considered. The UN and Oxfam have been bulldozing for Latrines and areas for tents. (hope latrines are on down hill side of camp area and on a section which does not blow any odors over the camp site?, or major health problems will occur?) There are no food markets nearby, schools, work or any transport in and out of the area...so what is planned?. The road appears to be unmade, just dirt......poor choice of area to place 50,000+ people in there hurried plan at the eleventh hour after nearly three months of knowing what was coming in the ensuing months. Now as of this morning, it is being reported, they have found there is only sufficient room for about 38,000 out of the 50,000...so where do the other families/people now go?. Seems some one again has not done there full home work after all this time since Jan 12th.....who is watching or checking on these peoples actions/moves/decisions etc?. (even the US army has more sense than to place anyone in such an exposed area without good protection from the elements of winds, let alone Hurricanes soon coming. NOAA is expecting/forecasting upto 15 storms this season, one has already spawned off Mauritania and looks like it will be just a tropical event)

Pierre, Jean Jeudy who is the only Haitian born elected state official (is an elected NH state congressman/representative) here in the US. Is interested in hearing from everyone who has any comments about decisions or problems, as he is now again in touch with some officials in Haiti. He is receiving many communications at the NH state house and his home. So please everyone contact him as you see fit. He was with President Preval during his recent visit with President Obama and knows his desires for the Haitian people. He feels the real Haitian peoples desires are being disregarded or not even requested going forward. This move to the Corail-Cesselese area could cause bigger problems than some people have considered (when with nothing for the people or children to do in and around the camp will lead to unrest.....increase in crime, women/children being abused/raped etc)...will the UN peacekeepers really ensure real security at this site or just be there as a sight to be seen and no real policing authority to use force or arrest?...this has been observed on numerous occasions now and in the past, just stood idly by and watched without intervening. In your broadcasting can you comment accordingly with suggestions, ideas, offers of help from people/consortiums, who have been summarily dismissed by the UN, USAID/FEMA, IOM and some NGO's, after these groups have listened to the Haitian people and there needs....decent shelter, food, water, ability to WORK and not rely on hand outs. All the Haitian people see for now is a continuing of there misery and the Haitian Government not receiving good information or assistance/advice from those who have been on the ground since Jan 12th onwards.....seems some have there own agenda (like flying in C-130 loads of bottled water everyday...instead of setting up distillation plants in strategic places...they have had nearly three months to do so)...wasting more resources the Haitian people could use....along with the no-bid contracts being released. The UN peacekeepers need to come under the authority of the Haitian Government and Chief of Police till he has sufficient officers trained, that is going to be a challenge in itself. So anyone wants to comment please do openly as too much time has gone by and no real action by the UN, USAID/FEMA, IOM and some self-interested NGO's has occurred...just look at Anderson Coopers interview at the J/P HRO camp with Sean Penn several weeks ago...nothing has really changed since then, even President Clinton's efforts have been stymied/hampered.....so lets all speak up. We have to get this right now for the people of Haiti and not for the short term till next time and its going to happen very soon and could be worse.

Sorry for such a long posting.

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#1809
In reply to #1805

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/15/2010 6:33 AM

I for one really appreciate the post Geoff. Suggest that we get the White Paper Edit to Jean Jeudy, and fill out the form. Thanks.

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#1807
In reply to #1787

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/15/2010 4:18 AM

Congrats, Dr.

Can I ask what was your dissertation? ( because I'm interested).

Cheers and good health,

Stu.

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#1826

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/16/2010 1:07 PM

Should any who are reading this wish to be contacted

post as guest

we can figure out a back channel, should you wish to contact any or all members of the group

1 ploy is to set up a gmail or hotmail account just for this purpose

& post the address here in a format like

AnonymousCoward at gmail dot com to avoid spam & such

you can register here with only an email address & have a user name like

container guy 1

we already have a few members who are only in email contact, to protect their identities
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#1827
In reply to #1826

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/17/2010 11:20 AM

I got this from Stuey [lazy git]

so I'll post an exert

A new approach to desalination being developed by researchers at MIT and in Korea could lead to small, portable desalination units that could be powered by solar cells or batteries. As well as removing many contaminants, these units could deliver enough fresh water to supply the needs of a family or small village.

& here's a link to the full article

http://www.environmental-expert.com/resulteachpressrelease.aspx?cid=35120&codi=162642&loginemail=stueywright@msn.com&logincode=276917
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#1833
In reply to #1827

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/17/2010 10:41 PM

Thanks Garth,

I recently purchased a new (newest, best) IMac as a rebellion to 'putting-up' with Microsoft product on my IBM laptop.

I find the machine a revellation, plus I don't have to endure the constant interruption of 'virus' and/or updating (which I see as a virus in itself).

But.

I'm not fully ofay with the driving of it yet.

Kyz has said to me that it's 'drag-n-drop' almost everything but I'm nervous about that just yet, as previously, I'd lose everything attempting to manoeuvre something into or out of the text.

I'd like to contribute, but I don't have the time to do it twice.

If someone is good at prompting me I'd appreciate the advice. Here or privately.

Sorry to have appeared to be lazy.

Just a dumb old farmer/engineer. Stu.

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#1834
In reply to #1833

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/18/2010 12:15 AM

Only kidding you

moving away from MS myself

I'm happy to help.

It's almost enough to make me start subscribing to environmental expert again....
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#1828

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/17/2010 12:21 PM

This desalinization process appears to be very promising, but I must remind Forum contributors that there will be a significant time delay getting such technology out of the MIT Doctoral Laboratories for several reasons:

1). The process was developed during the Pre and Post-Doctoral Process, therefore release of the technology will be at the discretion of the Dept. Chairman and the student's Doctoral Adviser.

2). Most likely there will be additional Laboratory experimentation and critical analysis required by all parties involved. This process is not a mature technology by any means and will most likely involve several more years of very difficult work. Hopefully 2 or 3 years at best additional study and analysis.

3). The other contributors to this technical breakthrough are South Koreans with no direct involvement with MIT decision making. Timeline is unknown.

4). There is the US Patent and South Korean Patent procedures that must be endured by the creators (and financial brokers/backers), which may last a few years at best.

5). Business agreements must be negotiated, reviewed by Attorneys and finalized, then implementation can begin by a sound viable manufacturer to produce this technology under license controls once it has been refined enough for mass-production and pass muster with other scientists and engineers. Timeline unknown.

Frankly, I don't see that this technology entering the marketplace within the next 4 or 5 years at best. I wish it was otherwise. I would be very nice to have it now. During my studies a draft copy of the Doctoral Thesis made it's way into our Department (I will not mention how and why and by whom, but papers are generally distributed among Universities for scientific validation purposes), most of the Doctoral candidates and Advisors who reviewed it agreed that a break-though had indeed been made by the MIT team, but that much more work will be needed in the laboratory in order to mature it. Furthermore, there is the need to scientifically verify by other institutions the data presented. What I read was a very rough draft, that was missing some vital information, most likely intentionally withheld for patent purposes.

Again, I wish it was here today for our use on Haiti....... We're going to have to look elsewhere for that magic bullet....like Proctor & Gamble's PUR which is almost idiot-proof to implement and utilize....but at what unit flyaway cost????

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#1830
In reply to #1828

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/17/2010 1:27 PM

I note also that the article suggests the process is more energy-intensive than conventional RO, so it is unlikely to serve on a large scale. Furthermore, they were working with sea water. What production rate could one achieve with brackish water?
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#1831
In reply to #1830

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/17/2010 5:30 PM

Charlie,

Look at www.zanaqua.com for a unit which is nearly ready for production and will handle brackish water and some sea water if cleaned everynow and again (flush with water/vinager mix).

Seems to use very little power for the output rating and less than an RO system.

This is the Potters filter type which can also work...is a ceramic clay pot hung inside a 5 gallon plastic pail and a small drain cock near the bottom and you can use the pails cover. Makes around 4 gals in about 4 hours and is drinkable, if pot is dipped/osaked with Silver colloid solution is even better.

Geoff

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#1832
In reply to #1831

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/17/2010 5:49 PM

Now we are returning to stuff that Garthh and I covered or participated in years ago on Sustainable Engineering- Agro Biogenics, or whatever multiplicity of names.

That work turned to dross.

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#1835
In reply to #1831

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/18/2010 9:03 AM

Geoff, I took a look at the Zanaqua system and it looks very good for our needs, and more specifically, KISS applied operation. I especially like the 7 Log removal of pathogens and crud, that would result in an exceptionally low Chlorine dosage due to very very low chlorine demands.

Only problem is the cost @ $20,000 per unit. That's like handing over a gold brick to someone for safekeeping, and because of it's relatively small size I can forecast that these sweethearts will be disappearing fasting than Jumping Jack Flash if not tethered against theft and placed under armed guard.

The energy consumption cost is very acceptable and the units can be run off solar PV modules.....thatsa nice!!

However I do question what the cost of the replacement filter ("Element") will run us? There's no mention of it's cost anywhere on the manufacturer's website. Therefore we're going to have to dig that info out of their sales reps ans run a small cost-to-benefit analysis to see where we stand ultimately on costs. Element is rated for 500 gallons maximum production, which really isn't that much if you think about it on a per capita basis.....just a half a week of water treatment for one person on bare bones consumption....and we're not talking about washing clothes or dishes or taking showers/baths either.......so I'd recommend that if this type of unit flies with us that the water it produces will be strictly reserved for drinking water purposes alone.

I hope everyone can see where I'm coming from on this. If not, please ask, okay?

This is something we'll have to put into our back pocket for "Reserve status" in case another more promising and less costly water treatment system goes belly up.

Over all Geoff, I'm giving you a GA 'ole boy for finding this technological marvel! Have a great day gents!

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#1858

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/19/2010 6:47 AM

Guys,

Just received this : haitian news (haitinewsnow2).

I checked it out and it confirms much of what has been talked about re Shelter, funding, work, corruption, UN, Clinton , relief etc.

Trans, another portal for you along with Pierre Cote and anyone else....yes, Mercenaries are being contacted for security by some people...probably the well off!

Geoff

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#1860
In reply to #1858

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/19/2010 9:39 AM

"probably the well off!" stands to reason Geoff. And good-o, it should put at least their per diems back into the local economy.

Kyzine
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#1888

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/24/2010 6:40 PM

http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/11991/Medical-Aid-for-Haiti
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#1890

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/29/2010 6:38 PM

Just checked and found the link not working. Sorry about that. Don't have the time to trace the reason. The article was related to textile exports from Haiti. Sad state of affairs.

See Ya's, Ky.

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#1891
In reply to #1890

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/29/2010 6:41 PM

Just copied and pasted, here goes, Ky.

US Bill would help Haitian textiles

U.S. lawmakers moved to assist Haiti's garment industry Wednesday, introducing a bill to expand a program that waives tariffs on U.S. imports of clothes from the country.

The Haiti Economic Lift Program Act, a bipartisan measure introduced in both the House and Senate, would extend duty-free benefits on knits and woven fabrics to 200 million square meter equivalents of textiles, respectively, up from 70 million each under current law.

The preferential access would extend through 2020, rather than ending in 2018 as it stands under the current law.

Mark D'Sa, senior director of sourcing and production for Gap Inc. in March testified before a Congressional committee that the old limits were too small and the time frame too short for big producers to get a reasonable return on their investment.

"This would create good jobs for the people of Haiti and offer a sourcing location with strategic proximity to support the needs or rapid response that U.S. retailers and brands require in today's environment," he said.

The current law—the Haitian Hemispheric Opportunity through Partnership Encouragement Act—was created in 2006 and expanded in 2008. Hait's textiles—a linchpin of the nation's economy—represent about 0.7% of U.S. garment imports.

"All we are asking is that it apply to 1% of imports," said Georges Sassine, the owner of a Port-au-Prince apparel factory who heads Haiti's textile industry association.

If the bill passes, he says, it would bring thousands of jobs. Once thriving with 90,000 employees, the industry has dwindled to about 28,000 workers due to trade embargoes, antiquated telephone and electricity networks and a lack of buildings.

The garment industry represents 90% of the nation's exports, though it generates only about $450 million annually producing products for such brands as Hanes, Gap and New Balance. It employs a third of all manufacturing workers.

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) said the law would help spur investment. "At the same time," he said, "the legislation addresses the concerns that have been expressed by the U.S. textile industry with respect to both domestic and regional production of textiles and apparel."

"The devastating earthquake in Haiti took the lives – and livelihoods – of hundreds of thousands of our neighbors in Haiti, and they need our help to begin rebuilding their country," said Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.), a co-sponsor.

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#1892

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/29/2010 7:51 PM

I've been working on other projects for the last few weeks, but an idea sprung into my head about 'apartments' with shipping containers. Please forgive that I've not made windows, doors, or staircases, but what I'm attempting to show is corbelling that makes central core 'chimneys' for convection cooling. I'm also spreading out the base, and trying to show sloping approaches to help streamline wind flow.

While using corbelling in a quake zone make seem stupid, I put these ideas out there as they may be useful in other parts of the world that are not in quake zones.

On the subject of quake proof. I saw an interesting tv program on the Hagia Sophia and the anti-quake methods used in that structure that has stood on a quake zone for some ~1500 years. Namely ,they used lead bases under the columns; used windows in the stress-crack spots, and also used mortar mixed with the same silicate material that the bricks are made of, with the resulting effect that cracks are self-healing.
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#1893
In reply to #1892

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/29/2010 9:12 PM

Nice thought to have the design take into account weather an ventilation for cooling. Nice thing about building with steel boxes is that you are likely to survive even slides and tumbles even in violent weather. Would be fun to do scale wind tunnel tests.

Funny in that working on movies as a grip or gaffer, I've got some useful experience. Mrs. Rabbit caused me to remember some jobs. The one with Industrial Light and Magic in a cold wave pool and fans and rain machines was close enough to water and wind tunnel scientific work, to test some of these concepts. Way my back feels model making is appealing work, compared to the real thing, for sure.

I imagine that if Sean Penn asked Industrial Light and Magic for some tests, they might like to do a time donation, though probably would be required that a Certified Engineer or some sort of Cross Theater, was responsible for the realities, since for movies, it only has to look right. (Real material equivalents would be required for a real test, whereas for a movie, this is a waste of time.)

I did think that Captain Moosie made a good point about how people really build as influenced by infrastructure. I sure love NYC though for it is a fine mix of influences related to the lay of the land, and then the Grid.

I don't love Chicago as much, since it is too much grid, and car for me.

I liked Toronto, and Rochester too. Fort Lauderdale was fun, but damn they did make it really hard on Sunrise and Powerline to take a left. Haiti makes me think of Walker, the mercenary who took over Nicauragra? for a couple of years. (The movie Walker with Ed Harris, is a gem.)

Still we are far from the point of using shipping containers as far as the original value of the concepts that were about fast, and strong, simple and cheap.

5 stories and you need a crane. Could be layouts on the rough and ready may well be foundational with capacity for urban up building as a good idea. Anchoring and plumb are then important

A notes and advisory record is recommended for every living space and building of any sort. I sure have needed to look at architectural and engineered records in mechanical rooms for important information when doing a certain rig.

I keep looking at the maps and mostly a globe and wondering what would make a port in Haiti desirable? So far I've not captured why and what really would make Haiti rich across all spectrums without treatment similar to that of Puerto Rico?

Islands can only handle so many people.

The number one ingredient in peace, is food, and their isn't enough in Haiti, from Haitian soil possible for the population. Food dependence from outside sources is the end of independence for a nation.

Maximization of food appears impossible for a trapped Haitian population that is essentially doomed as there simply isn't enough land to grow enough regardless of technologies.

You guys are at least as smart, smarter, and almost everybody on CR4 is better educated than I am. You guys tell me how to make Haiti work without radical action and clear headed understandings of both the numbers, and the politics, and I'll make more than one speech this year. Love, Russell

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chrisg288
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#1894
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/29/2010 9:30 PM

Can Haiti plant and grow Rubber trees?
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#1895
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/29/2010 10:29 PM

What good are rubber trees when the nation can't grow enough food for its people?

And we're not talking about people with power over the economy are we? These people are basically slaves and the ultimate losers in the ideology and superstition wars.

Not many schools. They live in the Western Hemisphere on an island nobody really has great reasons to go to. Making metal from Bauxite requires a good deal of cheap electrical power, and that's one of their major resources.

Might be another earthquake, and there is a storm season that is deadly enough.

They don't get along particularly well with their island neighbor. They don't speak a language that is common to the neighborhood either. Then they have a weird religion that's like some amalgamation of idol worship, Roman Catholic, and African superstitious belief systems anathetical to scientific practice.

Corruption is endemic.

What would it cost to buy Haiti? What would you do with the place if you owned it?

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#1896
In reply to #1895

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/29/2010 11:05 PM

"What would you do with the place if you owned it?"

You started this Trans!!

1. I would sign an arrest warrant for the guy (s) that sold it to me in the first place. Just to cover my tracks.

2. I would rename the place and call it Kyiti.

3. I would make the study of hemp cultivation compulsory (for use in fabric, rope, oil, pharmaceuticals and a million other uses developed over thousands of years)

4. I would hire body guards to protect me from the synthetic fiber industry's hired guns

5. I would sack all body guards because the negotiations with the guys, at the top, you know who, found a good way to get around the "fiber only" policy.

6. I would return to "my island" and rest for a while. Yes that only took 6 days and walking on water is getting harder and harder.

Love your work Trans, Ky

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#1903
In reply to #1896

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/30/2010 8:44 AM

So far best solutions appear as done in Puerto Rico.

Legalization of pot would help economic situation in Haiti, and Mexico, separate drug smugglers from weapons smugglers enhancing overall security of the US and the Western Hemisphere. - Territory status would allow emigration.

I have strong doubt natural resources match needs.

Does appear force would be required regardless in relation to virtual slavery I have heard reported as existing in Haiti.

According to Smithsonian Mag article most money for US came from Liquor taxes. Prohibition ushered in Income Tax, by the way.

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#1897
In reply to #1895

Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/29/2010 11:05 PM

Rubber plantations are a good low tech cash crop.

Rubber, if available in large quantities can help build quake proof buildings and structures. Rubber can be exported to the World, bringing back wealth and investment, which can purchase everything else needed.

Corruption may be endemic now, because of a lack of basic life-supporting wealth, sufficient for an average family to find satisfaction. If a method of generating wealth were to become available, then the political situation can and would eventually change.

Chris
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#1898
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

04/29/2010 11:54 PM

Hemp is a better idea, hemp seeds contain all the essential amino acids and essential fatty acids necessary to maintain healthy human life.[15] The seeds can be eaten raw, ground into a meal, sprouted, made into hemp milk (akin to soy milk), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp

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