Farewell to Blink

The moderators are not not close-minded. They are acting in accordance to the guidelines they were provided with. As with most things, they are somewhat subjective, and as I mentioned previously the moderators are still getting used to how they should moderate.

I don't believe they have intended to be arrogant or degrading.

The direction of moderation is not going to be changed.

Threads are closed when the conversation takes a turn for the worse. The exception to this is homework threads. We are still working out a new policy on this since many users have expressed an interest to leaving these open.

I'm happy to hear there are a lot of users who want to express opinions without the condemnation of others. That's great. That's what the site is for and that type of discussion is encouraged as long as it doesn't move into off-topic or inappropriate discussion. Those topics can be reserved for Private Messages.

"The moderators are not not close-minded." They no longer become moderators when they participate and stir up trouble. If the moderator If they pull the plug when it goes south making the last comment then what would you have me believe. Oh and I did say some not all. Most of admin have been very gracious in their posts.

There seems to be a misconception that I'm a moderator. I am not. I used to be a while ago, but haven't been for a while. I think you're referring to me, right? I'm just a user, just like you.

Roger, you just made a logic error. If you are not a moderator as you say and haven't been for some time and are just a mere user, how did you close that thread less than two weeks ago? YOU SAID you were closing the thread. Funny, I don't recall seeing a checkbox allowing ME to close a thread. I must have missed that.

Roger Pink,

Can you please explain

"There seems to be a misconception that I'm a moderator. I am not. I used to be a while ago, but haven't been for a while. I think you're referring to me, right? I'm just a user, just like you" and what you wrote on 04/21/2010 9:27 AM

"Also, I closed the thread because when I had reread ..."

This indicates that you are a moderator or that one of your buddies is a moderator. The very small bit of respect that I had for you has now vanished completely - you have shown your true colors.

Now you (or your buddies) will probably remove this post so no one can see it but it does not change the fact that you are, well how can I put it without offending you too much (not that I particularly care), a lying son of a ... (I'm sure that someone with your alledged IQ can fill in the missing word).

I am also tired of the "My 94 Cheve won't start" questions. I used to participate on this site quite a bit but recently the topics have become tiresome.

Other members who gave a farewell post was not closed, why now?

One starts to reflect. Is this it, what it comes down to.

There is something, I do not recall the term, when something get too large or successful it begins to implode, if nothing is done to correct it.

kinda a solemn day

Stay healthy Blink

p911

Reasons were given for closing the thread. I've posted all over the site that we are working on maintaining the moderation process as it transitions from 1-3 individuals to a large team.

If it has to do with religion, that would be poor at best from another thread.

But the post was based on something else.

This is pulling away from the main topic, or maybe not. And forcing to address the issue.

It's hard for the moderation team to do its work when the users are upset - some of this is understandable - and keep creating more work for us. Repeating things that were moderated because they should not be on the site is not helping.

We're working on it. We're going to implement a new technique - instead of deleting improper comments we will replace them with a reason why they have been removed. Hopefully this will help.

"We're going to implement a new technique - instead of deleting improper comments we will replace them with a reason why they have been removed"

I believe that is a move in the right direction. When offensive posts are removed, the subsequent comments are sometimes taken out of the original context, and neck hackles raise, responding to an insult that never was.

Yes, I agree that is good better moderation.

Ok, this is a perfect example in itself of why deleting a posting can generate more confusion. I had no idea that Blink has left. I do not know if this was a voluntary removal or what happened. I do not know what statements were considered improper or if the "moderators" were having a bad day. This will now be the second sharp, prolific contributor to leave in the past year. The "moderators" here should remember that even though they maintain the hardware that contains this site, people do not come here and to the GlobalSpec site to see how well they maintain the site. People come and stay here for the discourses, sometimes adamant discourses this community provides.

To fill you in, the octopus of threads on this now includes:

The AntiScience-Part I

Do Veterans Think AntiScience I ought to have been Closed?

Why am I Quitting CR4?

Why bother?

Farewell to Blink [this one]

Blink used a thread to say farewell to CR4. The thread's comments have been closed, but you can still view it here. There was no removal of his thread from the site.

Thanks!

I certainly don't view all threads, nor even every day's list, so I missed that.

As I recall, Blink previously used another avatar/name, and was somehow forced to leave that too.

I had a lot of respect for him and his knowledge under both names, will certainly miss him, and am sorry to hear he has left.

... and as the balloon drifts into the distance...

I had no idea this would be such a long process.

I want to make it perfectly clear that my previous name change required a fairly large amount of work on the part of CR4 and that it was done at my request. As many of you know, I have done quite a bit of debunking, and some of the things debunked have been the basis for businesses. Some business owners are not kind people.

(The bizarreness of it all: There are a lot of you with a good grasp of physics and thermodynamics. You will find little if anything in my posts anywhere on this site that would make you say much more than "Well, of course," or if you are younger, "Duh." There are some businesses based on the premise that the sun appears to rise in the west. I've only pointed out that the sun really appears to rise in the east. On two occasions, that has resulted in threats taken seriously by the authorities.)

SavvyExacta,

Can you clarify if Roger Pink is a moderator or not? If not then how did he manage to close a Thread? This really is one of the fiundamental issues that Admin face - moderators are there to moderate and not to protect certain individuals.

As a Blink watcher and secret admirer - for years before I joined - and since - I read Blinks "attack" as; logical illustration of flaws in Rogers logic links.

Not, as you seem to read it, as all about the "trigger words" in the examples.

I have also followed Roger and am aware and supportive of his "science sense" on the one hand, and "his passion" on the other. Sometimes they mix oddly, but it's one of his quirks is to be 'absolute' - even on penguins.

As said recently: I don't believe a comment can be taken in isolation of the context. That heavily includes a take on the dynamics and values of the contributors.

This kurfuffle is not worth the loss to the Forum. Closing the thread effectively froze it at maximum upset for Blink and left Rogers' threats to shut the thread the apparent "win" - a power he has now had to deny - but still makes him look like a Pratt.

"No Faith" in these guys to work it out - or in others to intervene, when actually required - Amplified the problem for Administration.

Post 1 is a tautology and oxymoron in avowed intent.

What it has served to do is to set this threads discussion mode on language, religion and 'developing' moderation.

Blinks' post seemed to have a lot more reasons than a tiff with Rogers' logic.

If there is one force behind all CR4 ills - it is comprehension. Do you actually comprehend "Post 1 is a tautology and oxymoron in avowed intent". Have you looked up the words and reread the post? or have you reacted to what you think it might mean?

People who focus and react to the one word that touches their "world" - not the entirety of the post, and posters intent - are that destructive force. Moderation should not add to that force.

I look forward to an explanation in place of a deleted post - if for no other reason than that moderators will have to think about why they are hitting the button.

One hopes that "standard phrase" will be more advanced than; 'this comment was deemed inappropriate to the CR4 image'. Which obviously would result in a deluge of PM's saying 'What?'

E.g. this thread is created out of moderation "reflexly hitting the button"

I suggest to members and Admin alike, that the reason both Blink and Roger and the former lost great contributors - and even banned me - stuck here, is we saw it as Voluntary Engineering Mentoring.

You need to hear all of Blinks message - for it says what has made his mentoring "worthless".

And you need to mourn Rogers loss of face - for that will cost the forum his knowledge too.

Kyzine

Farewell Blink,

I will miss your little kitten wink and your sharp rhetoric. Your perspective and humour has certainly been one of the high points of this community. You dealt precise blows to many a faux-engineer that descended here that couldn't keep their mouth's shut. While blasphemous abuse of any misguided individual should not be tolerated here, polite incompetent fools should always have their ideas dismantled. You did this masterfully, Blink and always with precise logic.

Be good to yourself Blink.

Redfred

here

It'll take some time to catch up though, I mean see the bigger picture. Very sad news and a great loss to CR4.

He might just reconsider, Ky.

"Blink" is capitalized, so it is a name (or nickname). Had you looked around, you would not have asked such a question. Blink is one of the best posters this forum has ever enjoyed, with the most or next most GA's and a good percentage thereof. This whole dust-up is regrettable, and your question even more so.

Wow, tough crowd. Asking an ignorant question is "even more" "regrettable" than "this whole dust up".

How about starting a movement?:

Blink -
" The man we knew and loved."
" Life before, and after, Blink."
" Come back blink - all is forgiven."
" The continuing search for Blink."
" The return, with Son of Blink."

I think all input should be appreciated as a contribution (however juvenile)
and only personal (uncalled for) vindictive degradation be moderated out.
(maybe punished? e.g. losing a GA point? - Just a suggestion)

jt.

I have no favourites; I can hate all persons equally.

I've tried to be reasonable here, but post #22 crosses the line.

Look, say what you will about me, but for God's sake, don't underestimate the threat of penguins. I have detailed the danger:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/338957

http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/8802

I mapped out their strategy here:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/401300/Re-A-Threat-We-Can-t-Ignore-Penguins

Detailed their weapons here:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/504877

Worst of all, I even revealed the horrible event that led to my undying hatred of Penguins:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/487030

And still you guys equivocate. Is there no topic you are not willing to oppose me on, even if it means your opposition leads to the enslavement of the human race? I think you all have a lot to think about.

http://armorgames.com/play/4964/penguin-massacre

I think that SE considers this to be a thread where a substantial support is being shown for the the new moderation team

do any think the changes are positive?

I have been noticing difference in moderation since just before the 1st of the year. Running blink off is just another symptom of the changes in the overall picture of our forum [yes I know GS supplies the electrons].

When you triple the size of a crew handling a task, there is a need to justify their existence, by doing stuff.

read the last couple pages here for more

SE would be wrong if he(she?) believes that to be the case. So far I have not been impressed at all with the moderation since the first of the year. Moderation decisions have been arbitrary and capricious. The moderators should consider themselves on probation. If things don't improve, Blink won't be the only person leaving.

You'll note that virtually every person posting on this thread has many many times more posts and/or GA's that SE does. There is a saying that says "don't try to teach your mother how to suck eggs"

Just to set a couple of things straight (or straighter...), the new team started roughly 3-4 weeks ago. I have noticed a considerable change and more consistency within the past couple days (less things being deleted, closed, etc.). Because some moderation decisions have been suspicious or may not make sense, moderators are starting to notify the user (or at least I have been) when I change a comment because it was flagged or for language or I leave a comment in the discussion if it was a guest. Because of the rocky transition between teams, it has been hard at times to train the new moderators and to make the CR4 community happy at the same time. This rough patch is not SavvyExacta's fault, it was a result of a hasty switch between teams.

There is no need to bash SavvyExacta for her lack of GAs/posts. As many of the members of CR4 have noted, GAs mean next to nothing. GAs are given for a variety of reasons, not just for clear, concise thoughts.

I am not saying that moderators should be given passes, but do give them credit where credit is due (less homework question threads are being closed, most left open because users requested it). Not everything the moderation team does is bad, it is just what everyone sees.

Jaxy, as far as I am concerned, leave the homework threads open, nobody is going to give the OP anything useful anyway and we need to do something with these rotten tomatoes after all.

Jaxy, the trick of being a successful moderator is to moderate the absolute least possible. The problem of late has been that the moderators have been all together TOO visible. I've been here a couple of years now and have said some pretty rude things from time to time, but it wasn't until two weeks ago that i had one of my posts deleted, and it was something that was frankly not objectionable by my reading. The best you guys can do is just butt out until the long knives come out and then be judicious even then, otherwise you'll just be pouring gasoline on the fire.

What you aren't seeing is that 99% of the last couple of days have been editing threads (for the daily digest) and not touching comments. The changes that I am referring to are recent (past 2-3 days), not two weeks ago. Recently, there has been what I would call 'light moderation.' For the most part, moderators have been butting out.

I can't speak for your deleted comment, but that was right when people were just getting used to moderating. We can't go back and change what happened in the past, we can only change how we approach things from now on, which is what we are doing.

Thank you Jaxy

Your commitment to get this right shows everyone that things are never eaten as hot as they are cooked. I find it very good that you stand up for savvy extra and explain how the CR4 engine works. We are only human, and like I have said before, we should identify that not only our brains are contributing but our hearts as well.

Now that I know that female ethics/feelings/viewpoints are involved in the decision making and editing I can understand better how things can get a little bit out of hand. I hope this is not interpreted as sexist because it is really not. I am just reminding you and SE that blokes have sometimes the tendency to "speak shop" in a way that my mum would not only have disliked but she would have reprimanded every one then and there. No if or buts, that is!

I am a granddad now and nothing has changed in that respect. When I talk shop with the boys or my son me mum better not be there. If we sometimes behave like little kids just ignore and recognize that you will not get the boy out of the man.

There is a very, very fine line between patronizing ("matron'izing") and editing. Please consider the blokiness and the sometimes year long friendships that have developed here in CR4. Vermin, for example, could abuse me as hard as he likes, it would just be like water off a ducks back. For others it might seem like we hate each other but we love each other and recognize the tongue in cheek and POSL. I think you have friends that can handle you going off the handle and just get on with it, I'm sure.

If some of the friends I have here find that what I commented is repulsive or of bad taste they will let me know, by PM. I once gave Trans a lip full and should have done that through more private channels. I apologized and we got on with the job. Nothing too damaging that a friendly word could not make it right. Humor, good humor, dark humor, satire and all the other legitimate human traits (blond jokes) are to be learned and trained if to be interpreted as tasteful. I have problems in most of those departments but am picking up little tricks, while I'm at it.

My Rugby League team (Cowboys) lost last night. It was the Ref's fault, the bloody bastard. That's just sooo off topic Ky, now get to it!!

BTW, has anyone heard from baby bear?

Blame it on females not understanding 'guy' language all you want, but there are many male moderators too. There is probably a 50/50 split, and it isn't just the girls that are to blame.

I am one of the more lenient moderators in that I take the comment into context, asking myself the question: "How was this comment received?" Oftentimes, when I do this instead of taking these comments at face value, there are less moderation interventions. But this is specifically what I do.

babybear I haven't heard from him in a while.

-Jaxy

Hi Jaxi

There was no intention to blame. Just, maybe, to explain why this has all gone a bit pear shaped. I was just surprised to find female moderators at all. How would I know? Like finding a part made of gold in a system otherwise made up of 316. I was never interested how the CR4 machine works but have more insight now. If it would not have been for the weird sounds emanating, I would not even thought there was something wrong. If it's not broke, don't fix it, sort of a thing.

I am a great admirer of women and their ability to find solutions or look at things from a different angle. My wife of nearly 40 years is so inspirational that without her and her calming and "get real" attitude has saved me a lot of trouble. Although she has no idea what the technical problems are she can sense that I need moderation and I have learned that a neutral pole exists. I like and need it that way.

If you read any blame into what I have said I can only blame my inability to put matters into the proper wording, (tri-linguistically challenged).The last thing I would want, is to upset another human being, unless he/she displays recalcitrant behavior. I will have to deal with even avoiding that, in the future, possibly just like Blink is doing now, and just withdraw. Much to early for me though, I have so much to learn.

I remember the circumstances back then (with Ken) and think that his decision is not only the result of infighting here but the result of other matters interfering with him and his life. If one gives and gives and sees no return but childish obnoxious reflection on matters of great importance, then he is to be congratulated for leaving and to spend his time while looking forward to a deserved return on his input and the time spent doing so.

Say G'day to the team for me, have a great weekend, Ky.

I am not upset. I just wanted to make you aware that it isn't just females thinking some comments are rude. I will say that the moderation has gotten a lot better. The explanation has already been given, there were people not fully trained (aka didn't have real experience) and the transition was so fast that they didn't have time to adjust. Should it reflect poorly on anyone? No. It was an honest mistake and if people can get past this, I think they will find that everything will get better with time. That is what I have to tell myself every time something goes wrong. "Tomorrow will be a better day."

If people leave because of the past couple weeks of moderating, it is a shame, because the team is getting better all the time.

Have a good evening.

I for one, am grateful that CR4 has chosen to continue this fabulous site, and am willing to forgive almost anything. I would like the 'rules' for fair posting to be explicit, so that I will know when my behavior put's my writing at risk. I think a placeholder might be an idea for posts that are removed entirely. That way, there is at least a clue as to what happened.

Thank you all CR4 personnell and supporters.

Chris

Thank you for being supportive. The idea for having a notice for removed votes has been discussed. Everyone has really good ideas, which is really reassuring. I cannot tell you when or if all of these wonderful ideas for improving CR4 and its moderation will be implemented, but rest assured that they are being seriously considered.

Got a PM from Baby Bear last week

He's busy moving...

I agree. please accept my GA wish.

"Evaluation" of anyone on GA ratio - especially a new arrival - who may take GA's as meaningful measure - is "a low act".

Cracks like that may just kill the chance of an escape from the past woes.

Ms Exacta is faced with a process of trial and error to find moderators who understand the substance and are free of bias in the gamut of topics discussed.

There are several clues indicating she has acted on "slash and burn moderation".

It will take time for her to innovate past entrenched concepts, like absolute power and moderating based in personal views, likes and dislikes.

What she is doing is talking, which is a first, and, even more remarkably, giving thought to solutions - not the traditional glib dismissal.

It might have started out "by wrote" - but it's changed radically.

It's been a pleasure reading your posts. Farewell.

'bye, Blink. Will miss you.

John

Hello Blink:

At times you are pretentious and arrogant, just kidding (well mostly) but your input has always been respected whether I necessarily agreed are not. I hate to see you go, if nothing else your practical application and the undoubted grease under your fingernails is an admirable trait.

I would hope you would reconsider, while I'm sure it was not your intentions an inevitable consequence of your withdrawal has been some disturbing polarization and subsequent comments on this thread (not by you by others). As you've previously stated differences of opinion with strong personalities are inevitable. I feel no need to comment on who is right or wrong, but certainly preserving the debate is worthwhile.

Look, if you all don't stop squabbling I'm going to have to come over there, bang your heads together and send you all to bed with no supper.
If that doesn't work I'll get Mrs Cat to give you all one of her hard stares .

Seriously though...I think anyone who calls on God or Religion should have the post pulled. There are plenty of places to discus that stuff...jeez I believe they even have special buildings for the purpose in almost every town and village (in several different flavours!)...I even get people knocking on my door to discuss it.
It beggars belief...to use the cockney vernacular 'just leave it out'
I'm sure that should any Dieties exist they are quite cablable of squabbling amongst themselves without our help.
Blimey I don't go knocking on doors to recruit people onto electronics courses.
Stop it!
Del <click... Atheist rant mode off>

Ah, but is that evolution or creationism (with some help from photoshop)
Del

creationism with photoshop of course!

Funnilly enough, I was out front yesterday with Mrs Cat tackling some Pampas grass which has got a bit too big and some JWs approached to see if I wanted to talk about the G thing. (no I wanted to tackle the Pampas grass)

Ha! My previous post had primed me, so I pre-empted the couple (who were good humoured) by saying...
'Look, I'll do you a deal, I won't try to persuade you to take up electronics or making longbows.... You don't try to persuade me to take up your stuff'
He's in the garage now makin' a bow.....
No, seriously he grinned and said 'fair enough'
Del

BTW... I wonder why the base of that Pampas smells of cat pee.

(first off this was going to your personal e-mail but decided to post it here so it reads as such) Hey Blink, So apparently I have some serious catching up to do. I've been so busy trying to meet some critical deadlines that I haven't had the opportunity to get on CR4. So you needn't explain anything, I'll go through the list and read through it all at some point. Some of the pressures off me now and I can get to dedicate some time to, fun(?) reading on all this.

Just for your eye's from another supporter: I almost feel that the "Free Speech" aspect of CR4 forum really took a turn for the worse in recent months. (admin and others, please excuse my current ignorance to any changes or such since I've been gone awhile) When they changed the title on my thread on pseudoscience, I was like "seriously?" I couldn't remotely find any reason for that and no one at admin would give me a little hint as to what I had titled wrong or suggestion for future postings.

I realize this maybe should go on the main site but on a personal note: I've really enjoyed reading your comments as many have. Not that I didn't learn a thing or two as well. Your approach to commenting on many of the subjects and rebuttals speaks well of the type of person you are. Who dare say "opinionated" aren't we all in our own minds? I will add with out your participation in this forum my interest in participation and or taking precious time of my life to read through this forum will be with perhaps less interest. My time is the most valuable asset of which I feel, that how I use it, carries immense responsibilities yet is part of my valued freedom.

If you are to no longer participate, I personally will miss your hand at the keys of your voice, of which I've grown to know and appreciate. Many Kudo's amigo.

Just a quick tip on thread titles. I believe the main reason that your title was edited was because it was simply too long. Changing titles is subjective, but some of the reasons that thread titles are changed are due to:

• Capitalization
• Proper Grammar/Punctuation
• Spelling
• Making Title More Relevant to Thread Content

I am not entirely sure why your thread was edited that way, but the reason I stated above is my best guess.

THANK YOU very much Jaxy, I will keep those in the forefront of my mind in any future postings. I think, as Chris288, mentioned above: that the 'rules' for fair posting to be explicit" or ideas along that line be made available. There may be something like that already and I haven't explored that arena. I know you responded to him that there are good ideas coming along those lines.

This is a really great forum. It's one of many but really the only one I feel that has less, dare I say, "flakes" as some of the others. Or, basically some of the others are not containing the intellectual capacities this site does or may only have a seemly handful of people who participate.

or may only have a seemly handful of people who participate.
Do any of them have cats?
Del

Good to see your still here Mate

Its all a bit of a storm in a tea cup really. Just humans, reacting to a problem/issue in a different way, from a different perspective and from different back grounds and levels of education. Some red faces, some apologies, nothing an hour long face to face could not have resolved.

It is a sad out come to loose such a prolific member. Maybe the same happened with "sparkstation" http://cr4.globalspec.com/member?u=11216 and he would not even explain but just disappear into thin air. Just had enough, sort of a thing. W#hat a waste.

It reminds of the joke were parents intervene in a fight that children have, only to start fighting with them self's, while the kids continue to have a great time in the sand box, just in the back ground. Not that I call all reactions or statements infantile, nor the editors grown ups but you should imagine the editing room and what goes on there or on their screens at times. I betcha there'd be some discussions going on at times.

Well, they decided to govern so let them work it out. I for one am more interested in getting some work done.

Since weeks I am thinking of giving you some updates on my projects but informing people about never ending stories can hardly be helpful. Let me make it short:

I am on the cases, with some thanks to you. Talk to you soon, Ky.