Toilet Cistern Float Switch=Rocket Science

I recently installed a dual-flush valve that replaces the stopper that was hooked to the flush lever with a chain. The dual-flush valve seats on the original stopper seat.

I had to keep playing with the valve until it seated correctly, this stopped the tiny dribble I would see and the short cycling of the fill valve after the flush cycle was complete.

Or, could I be completely off base on this.

No your spot on. I think I'll build something myself too.

I did say it was a small leak and not an Assange but that does not matter. I think the green frogs have a bit to do with it.

I am planning to build an electric shock system to keep them out. Many here on the Island have this problem but if you kill them the beasts they eat take over and what then?

Awwwww, aren't they cute little rascals

_{As I scrolled to pic 2, I was kind expecting your shot of "what eats them"}

_{Good idea if 'shock treatment' it works on them too}

You think I am joking? Here is what they sometimes have for breakfast.

Yep, that's a 2be4. I investigated green frog excrement and in a little sausage, the size of a gummy bear, I could find huge amounts of half digested insects. My microscope has gone blind in the tropics but I know what they can eat by watching them do their deeds.

Maybe you were thinking I was joking about the electric repulsion but I am not. It would not take much to build but there are other, more pressing matters, at hand.

Besides, snakes do there bit. These frogs, when caught, scream like babies which is the most disturbing of all.

You guessed it: having overseas visitors can be a bit of a shock to the system. You should have heard Sybil scream. Wow, it took a while to settle her down.

Other wise all is good Mate, done my cyclone preparation and waiting for the power to go down. This time tomorrow my little pond will look like a bowl of spinach. Here is what it looked like yesterday.

I have strapped my upper floor sun and rain roof to the house. Its stops debris smashing windows. Note the shackle attachments. I thought of giving it a test but it's better were it is now. Only takes a few minutes to set it up anyway. The sun will not come out for a few days so I will miss the shadows playing their games.

Ah yeah, I have to read up on the cancer by-pass thread and keep some leprechauns at bay too. And Goldie Locks on Ebay, wonder were Heidi has hidden them. Interested?

Hope you die of boredom, Ky.

This might explain the debris protection a bit better.

No - I didn't think you were joking - even started wondering how to do it.

Be good if Anthony decides to miss you - and you're bored instead.

Best of Luck mate, (and in the hope you don't need it) - to you and yours'.

I know exactly how to do it. I just have to build the prototype. I estimate the ware house price to be around $25. Any plumber could fit it. 5 minutes job. Its easier than recharging my mobile phone, much easier.

Well, if I only had more time, I would get divorced and wed the daughter of my patent attorney.

Heidi is in my ears so I better do as I'm told . All good Mate, we've had bigger ones than Anthony . The one following is a bit of a worry. No wockin ferries Mate, good as gold.

If you sell a perfectly reliable product that lasts forever, you do not get much repeat business.

That design looks overly complicated.

Yep, the old one lasted nearly 20 years. This one must have cost 20 times as much, to buy or manufacture. Just imagine the injection molding. What a waste!

Let's not forget that the (alive or dead) company that made the reliable float valve may not have released their patent rights. So the new company that over designed your valve had to design something that did not resemble the reliable system to not infringe on the patent. Like many things in life, patent law can be a double edged sword.

Good point. That never even entered my mind. Reverse engineering gone wrong and the Attorneys in the box seat. It used to get me started but I'm over it and choose other ways of IP protection nowadays. Many do by the way. Thanks, Ky.

The contractor, I'm sure, used the cheapest float valve he could find. These things, even the new style, tend to be reliable.

Go to your local building supply store and get a new one, they're inexpensive, and easy to replace. For maybe $5 more you can get a better one than what was installed.

Yep, I'm over it now. I call the dunnie Julian now. I go for a leak

Do you think it would be worth while contacting the manufacturer and asking them what they thought about when they approved such crap?

i urge you to do that. In India, the 'consumer court' has been pretty good in protecting customers against profiteering corporations. Good luck to you.

Thanks. I am over it and will just cop it sweet. I'll have a go at the plumber. He's a Scotsman so no worries there

Hi KY,

It's a pity I didn't read this earlier, I have just replaced 2 toilet systems (that have the new float in perfect order) and I have just put my son on a plane back to Brisbane this afternoon, he could have taken them over for you to pick up, instal one and have one as a backup.

Sorry about the timing.

Cheers

Joe

Good as Gold Mate. It's the thought that counts. Drop in one day, Ky.

All corporations have to make a profit. That is the motive that makes them provide a commodity for you. If you resent them making a profit, don't buy their product.

prof·it·eer

   /ˌprɒfɪˈtɪər/ Show Spelled[prof-i-teer] Show IPA –noun1.a person who seeks or exacts exorbitant profits

If i owned stock in that company, i might agree with you. After all, caveat emptor eh?

the seals are dry.... apply grease or heavy oil to all rubber seals you can get to and it won't leak anymore.

Someone's spent a lot of time and effort to eliminate all the costly metal parts, to give the tap a "snap off" operation, to give dual action flushing and to reduce the assembly time even more.

That way you get a toilet assembly a few cents cheaper. It's a clever engineering design. Ffej

Have a couple on me. I love it. It didn't come with a manual so any undoing what? would have left me doing some thing I don't want to do. Thanks again, I'll go for it, Ky.

Well the inlet bit it's not exactly the same as the model I described, but the principal is the same - as are paint ball guns - but the other way around - 'hydraulically balanced' - except it's pneumatics - but the "what to look for" is the same set of 'understandings'.

So given 'understanding' - indeed "go for it"

And no, it's not Rocket Surgery - it's the far higher science of plumbing!

^{(some get it, some BS about it) _{(knife supply a bonus)}}

my mother had an toilet flusher ,built in the victoren time period in here hause,it was maded out of cast iron,and the needle valve was brass as well as the float arm and ball.She did,nt like it,as it looked old,it worked fine,so one day she got an new plastic one,that leaded like yours and that had been fastened to the wall with ducket tape.what my mother and l earned from this is,if it works leave it alone.

'what my mother and l earned from this is,if it works leave it alone'.

Or, as we Yanks say: If it ain't broke, then don't fix it.

Didn't the plumber guarantee his work? Not sure what they cost there, but they aren't cheap in my area. "It was replaced by a plumber less than a year ago"... I sure wouldn't expect to maintain a good reputation like that.

I have different problem. We have a water tank on the ground floor of the apartment building where we receive water from our water supply department. Many a times due to negligence water over flows and is wasted. We installed the ball cock to solve this problem but flow of water was considerably reduced. We removed the ball cock and old problem still remains. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

I think that you need to clarify this problem:

Is the tank pressurised by mains pressure?

or

Is there a pump on the tank that supplies water pressure to the apartments?

What types of negligence cause the tank to overflow? Are these deliberate actions, or lack of knowledge of some residents?

Would it be correct to assume the the ball cock was used to control the mains water inlet to the tank? If so, was the ball cock suitable for use with the associated mains pressure?

Is this supply of mains water to the apartments for potable water and/or sewage?

Answers to these questions may go some way as to being able to assist you with your problem.

Thanks for your comment. I would like to clarify as under:-

1.Tank is not pressurised. There is pump to lift water to terrace of 5 storey building and fill tank on terrace.

2. The valve for inlet is not closed when tank is filled up at ground floor due to negligence of the pump man.

3. Yes ball valve was fitted on the water inlet tank at ground floor.It was connected to main pressure pipe.

4. It is for potable water.

In Bharat & Pakistan there is a Float-Valve fillted at the end of inlet pipe of under-ground tanks which shuts down the water flow.

Add a [normally called reducer but when used in reverse it changes from lower dia to higher dia. ] . Say if the inlet pipe is 1/2 " then use 1/2 - 3/4 and use the 3/4" float valve. Your problem may be due to using the same size float valve.

I hope it will do.

Thanks Haajee Shaeb. We have 2" inlet pipe but we do not get float valve of even 2" here.

Quite a few manufacturers make 2" ball cocks..........I did not check Indian valve manufacturers.............there are quite a few Chinese manufacturers..........also in USA and Australia.

If you used a smaller ball valve to try and control the flow through a reducer, this may have caused a problem with the ball cock.

I think a solid state level indicator connected to a 2" eclectically operated ball valve would be one option.

Regards.

I wonder that 2" float-valves are are not available.

Here almost all commercial buildings have under-ground tanks and a water pump is used to fill overhead tanks for water distribution and all are using float valves at least in under-ground tanks and pipe used in buildings is at least 2" dia and all are fitted with float-valve.

Electronic controlled valve of this dia may be more difficult.

However may use a number of valves used in washing machines in parrallel.

A level control circuit will be required.

I remember a discussion on this subject was on CR4 by anIndian collegue but some 4/5 years back.

Regards

Sorry it took time to remember the correct nomenclature of the valve.

It is Water-Solenoid

It's just a loo Mate, not the Space Shuttle.

Of cource

I would rip that crap out and install the old fashion reliable float and flapper valve back in the tank.

Wow, some relay great answers but take the even easier route. Lowe's, Home Depot or equivalent nearest you has brand new cheap toilets for sale. Two bolts, one wax seal, and a great looking newly installed throne.

I blame the environmentalists. They went and made the governments of the world regulate how much water that toilets could use, thereby making it necessary to flush three times to get everything to go down (or more) thereby actually INCREASING the water usage. so then they made everyone get dual flush toilets that supposedly solved that problem... but in doing so they made the valving complex, expensive, and probably not very environmentally friendly to manufacture to boot...

What is the best thing to do with an environmentalist? toss em into the composter....

I was set back to remembering the old (victorian) toilets still around in the UK when I was a boy. High level. So I decided to have a look around as the design was so simple (loud in operation) and only required a valve for the float mechanism for refilling, not for the flush mechanism!!!

They were simply modified for communal urinals (flushing on a time basis) by sinply removing the chain, changing out the ball valave for a simple type of tap where the water flow can be adjusted, giving a range of times.

These toilets did not have an overflow and if they get over full, they can axctually "flush themselves" though generally, only a leak was seen in the bowl.....

Here are a few bits to "wet" your appetite and a video or two!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I1XPQqBMWM

As ou can see, its open at the top and set about 2 meters over floor level....

I copied this from a short explanation:-

The chain is mounted to a cast iron bracket affair that sits on two suppoerts on the cast iron cistern lid. When the chain is pulled it lifts a large piece of cast iron (shaped like an upside down bullet) which releases the water into the toilet, by forcing the water "up and over" and the water is siphoned out of the cistern.

I could not find a picture of the works, sadly... Very simple and usually quite loud as well!!

Some older houses still have them as there is little to go wrong...

Is she a beauty or what?

That's what I had in mind when I said I could knock one up in my workshop. Now that I have more information than I really needed I'll take the one I have apart and see what they were thinking. It's not about the money more about the time it will take.

I Have a step by step procedure to follow (34.5) and someone to blame if all goes wrong..

He might win himself a set of knives, sorry Bundy, Ky.

_{Um - I'm not totally sure I'm comfy about the proximity of those statements - and by a Chef, well that adds a level all of it's own.}

That reminds me of the story about how houses in the UK are so close together that when you pull the chain (as shown in your picture) you empty next doors bathtub.

Thinks! How's that for conservation of water!!!!!

Good points. I understand. When I gave away my 72 Holden Kingswood due to rust problems it was a sad day. I could fix anything on or in it, at least for a while or until I could get to the next servo.

I start sounding like my Dad so I'll leave it at that. I shall advance and flow with the punches, Ky.

* al bundy almost cried when he had to give up his old toilet for a low flow

Great. Not sure when that information will come in handy one day but it's stored anyway.

I wonder if the word crap originated from his name? Anyway, I don't think your post was off topic, Ky.

but he DID invent the ballcock valve.

It stopped leaking yesterday. Must have known I was up to nothing good. The little particle mentioned earlier must have dislodged. Ballcock Valve aih?

I have some of the old all-metal float valves in my old building downtown. They are remarkably reliable. Occasionally the floats will fail, but it's easy to put on a new one. Even the old center post flapper/stoppers are still available and quite reliable.

I am a big Fluidmaster fan, but recently they came out with a gizmo to keep the toilet from re-filling if the flapper leaks. I find that a source of more trouble than value, so I remove that part. Otherwise, Fluidmaster makes good stuff.

For dual flush, I would use a simple procedure to lift the flapper a little for a short flush, and a lot, (so it goes up and stays until the tank is empty), for the long flush.

A trick we used for years before twin flush was invented, was to cast a simple lead weight with a thick wire hook and hang it on the float, in the middle where the water overflows into the toilet if the ball cock stops "stopping" the ingress of fresh water.

(with plenty of room left over for overflow!)

That way the float was not a "float" anymore and when you took your finger off the flush, it sank and sealed up again stopping the water flow.

Simple effective and cost about 10 minutes to make.....but lasts years......

The only thing that I really like about modern flushes is the silent filling.....and the quick shut off.....the old ones "dribbled" for minutes till they shut off.....

holy crap how did they fit all that into a toilet tank i would contact the manufacturer and ask them WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU PEOPLE THINKING OF WITH THIS JUNK your right whatever happened to good old simplicity. this engineer musta had one hell of a budget to work with. just hope you didn't have to spend an arm and a leg to get this repaired. i sure wasn't expecting to see this when i scrolled down the page to your picture i have worked with quite a few plumbers but never seen anything like this. Even some pool filtration systems are more basic than this

who is the manufacturer id like to see the web site just to find out how much other junk they have on the market man i still can,t believe this contraption thingamajig doohickey or whatever they call it but it sure doesn't look like a toilet tank

oh by the way can it make your morning coffee too

Old Navy saying for some over complicated object:-

"Does it make good coffee?"

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"No"

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"It makes bloody awful coffee!"

...........and

Dear mum I have only been in the Navy 6 months, and I am already a Captain!!

yes

Captain of the heads!!!

Right on, been there done that!! LOL!

Greetings to an ex RAN member!!

everythings a matter of money today.