Ripped-Off By Retailers

Some of the goods are imported from China. Such as consumers goods (not eatables). We still have our mfg. plants.

Not true. In the USA, a lot of food stuff is imported from China, like fish products, condiments and sauces.

I think you are confused I am talking about India not U.S. We do not import sea food from China.

I think the government has plenty to do with it......................as well as fuel prices, under funded union pension funds, the price of raw materials, etc.

Expect to see more of it with the implementation of Obamacare and higher corporate tax rates. Trickle down legislation. Whenever Washington promises to go after big business, it's the end users that end up paying the tab...............every time.

I hit the grocery store almost daily, and decide what's for dinner based on what's on sale. Buy up chicken and beef when they have a super sale and put it in the chest freezer. I also buy a lot of everyday items in bulk at the warehouse store.

There are a lot of things I just won't buy unless they are on sale. Potato chips, for example...........there's just no way I will pay almost $5 for a bag of chips.

The only thing more expensive than education is ignorance.Big fish eat little fish..smart fish eat dumb fish.Smart people vote with their wallets.If a product loses sales after a sneaky volume change, it will lick it's calf over and consider revising it's strategy.

If you get ripped off, don't buy that product again.If everyone did that,the market would adjust itself.However,today society is being dumbed down to the point of cattle,that simply consume what is put before them.Like the cattle being grown with sawdust and chicken house litter.YES! chicken poo and sawdust is now prime cattle feed!Theory is, cellulose is cellulose,whether grass or wood.The chicken litter is mixed with the sawdust so that the bacteria can pre-digest, or break down the cellulose for the cattle to make it easier for them to digest.

I saw a show on this, and according to regulations, the sawdust was supposed to reach 160 F before being used as feed.It shows a large bucket loader and operator loading steaming feed into an auger,which takes it on to the waiting hungry cattle.

"How do you know it is 160 F degrees?",asked the reporter.

"I guess at it" replied the operator.

They(the cattle) are what they eat, and by proxy, so are we.

This could have political implications and parallels as well, but I will not go there.Explanation to the wise is unnecessary, to the unwise impossible.

There is also serious research ongoing to recover undigested corn from pig manure and turn it into chicken feed.Soon they will close the loop, when they can figure how to recycle human waste to the pigs.Eventually, they will be able to eliminate the intermediate animals altogether.

Don't laugh..there is a government grant out there somewhere funding such a study.They have been able to create meat in a petri dish. They already spray waste plant solids onto farmland to increase crop yield.This is not so bad on the surface, but un-reacted antibiotics are passed into the soil where resistant organisms reside.

Ever wonder why it is hard to get a really good steak anymore?

Tastes a bit like chicken? Might not be your imagination.

I prefer wild venison and home grown veggies myself.Sometimes I do not have enough real food to last all year, and I too am forced to eat the "Cattle Food" from the super market.I can feel a real decrease in my vigor when forced onto such rations.

Basically, Caveat Emptor.

I live with all the packaging "scams" by reading labels carefully. I always look at "unit prices, in stores that show them, that's the best way to get the best "deal". The retailer trick that I find abhorrent, is the one where they buy up all the units from a manufacturer that has deemed the units bad, then the retailer puts them on their shelf at full price, and hopes you won't return it when you discover it does not work as advertised.I won't buy electronics from certain large retailers because of this. I also spend a lot of time (I have that available at full volume at least) reading reviews of items I'm considering purchasing.

I always look at "unit prices, in stores that show them, that's the best way to get the best "deal".

It interessting, when I was in my twenties, I was frugal, but still I just bought what I wanted, If I could afford it, or I would not buy iy, I didn't shop around, and I really still don't shop around.

But when I was in my thirties, I check pricing like that, and if it wasn't a 'deal' I didn't buy it. And I would check the next time I shopped if the price was acceptable.

What, so are you saying your shopping-savvy has gone from rags to riches to rags?

yah, that a good way of putting it.

A lot of great thoughts here. I would like to comment on the ice cream carton. Although I'm guessing, I would suspect that the false bottom could be there to insure the carton doesn't stick to the shelf due to condensation forming and then freezing.

I agree, I had rated this topic 4 stars, because allot of these needs to be discussed.

And good explanation about the ice cream. Don't know how much of it is due to process mitigation though.

I wouldn't be concerned about the false bottom, only the net weight of the contents.

I had the same experience with Northland cranberry juice. and agree with you about deceptive practices of both the manufacturer and retailer. I don't know what we can do about it other than to be more vigilant when we shop. The biggest problem is; most shoppers don't know how to shop. The manufacturers/retailers know the shopping habits of shoppers. They study in schools of retailing to learn how to deceive. They know how to capitalize on the weaknesses of the shopper. They know that products placed at eye level will attract more customers than if it is at the top or bottom shelves. The bottom shelves can be used to attract small children. BTW, removing candy from the checkout aisles was implemented by request of customers. Not all retailers abide by this. I have known about this for a long time and am very vigilant when I shop. I usually spend more time than most while shopping in order to spend my money wisely.

Oh BTW, I often come home with food items that are spoiled or become so quickly. They go back to the store at my earliest convenience for a refund or replacement. I have gotten milk that went sour in a few days; chickens and meats that smelled bad, vegetables and fruits that were bad. Most would just throw it away, but not me or my wife. The consumer deserves the best for his money and it is really up to the consumer to police the manufacturer/retailer, not Congress or any consumer group. The consumer has made the mistake in depending on someone else to protect us. In the long run, it's every one for himself.

I often come home with food items that are spoiled or become so quickly.

THAT is the groceriers respooncibility. It's interesting to note, that the government does require to have an expiration date on your consumables, even flour.

I always check expiration dates and buy the freshest one; especially perishable items, like milk and meats.

I rarely miss checking dates too. Also the checking the cap is secure on the milk.

Saw bundles of handkerchiefs on sale at Target. Why were they sale? Their date-codes were close to expiring.

The stores have recently become a source of grievance as well. Good old "Wally World" (Walmart) has taken to pricing large packaged quantities higher per unit than smaller ones on cat food, dried fruit, yogurt amongst other things. Obviously most people will automatically grab the package with 10 ounces versus the one with 5 ounces, because larger packaged quantities are always cheaper per unit - right? Not anymore. Better look at the price and do the math before you buy.

They're also doing this because we accept it.

What really chaps my arse is how we're being gouged by the cell-phone providers. I pay more in one month for my cell service here in the U.S. than my Aussie friends pay in an entire year for theirs and their Internet access.

Cell companies follow another trick also. They will send you missed call from foreign country in the mid of night when you are sleeping. You just get worried as who has called you at this hour and with hazzy eyes you will smply call back but person on other end will accept your call but will not reply. In process cell company will bill you $ 5.00 for ISD call.

Dear EC,

I can't help but put in my 6-cents (it used to be 2-cents, but I have to charge more now ).

I understand your frustration, but if you're just now noticing, then you've not been looking. CONVINCING you to buy something is called MARKETING, and it always borders on (or blatantly steps over the border of) deception. It's as old as the old snake oil salesmen (probably a lot older, but I can't think of any examples).

Someone mentioned legislation, but that legislation already exists in terms of 'truth in advertising', and it works. It doesn't matter if the packaging is the size of a 55-gallon drum, if the label says there is 0.25 ounces inside, that's all I can expect to find. You mentioned the bacon packaging, but for how long have you seen oranges packed in orange net bags and russet potatoes packed on brown bags? Read any fruit juice container ... many are quick to say "100% juice", but unless it says "100% (fill in the blank) juice", it has always been predominately a combination of apple and white grape juices.

If you ever DO find the contents of a package do not match what the printed label says is inside, I think I would take it directly to the local TV station ... they LOVE dirty little stories like that.

You mentioned the detergent, and that IS an issue, but no way to regulate it. What the maker can easily do is change the concentration of the product (as you say, 'water it down'), and as long as they give you the quantity as labeled, there is nothing you can do about it.

The best 'regulations' are, as you did, take the product back. Don't bother with the BBB (in my opinion) unless you are dealing locally with someone selling a service. The best recourse is to (nicely ... don't rant and rave with the store ... you want them as your advocate, not your enemy) tell the management of the store where you bought and returned the product. Next (if you are involved with a social media) tell all your friends (truthfully, but nicely ... slander, legal or otherwise, won't help your cause). Finally, write the company who sold the product ... if you're really fortunate, you might find out who distributes that product ... and tell them the issue, that you have spoken to the store, and to your friends about the problem.

IF brands find out what is happening in their market, it can have an impact, but the hard part is getting your complaint to the folks in the organization who would really care.

Two stories to close ...

I had a problem with a well-advertised men's store but had little results at the retail store itself. I found and wrote to the corporate headquarters of that retail chain. Nothing ever happened. Sorry, but no sense making myself upset further ... I will just never shop at their retail stores again. Simple ... problem solved (for me).

Finally, a marketing story that some may not know of ... a famous brand of toothpaste (this was many years ago) wanted to increase their sales. One of their marketing folks had an idea ... pure genius (truly). They made the hole in the toothpaste tube just a little larger ... about 20% ... without knowing it, the public consumed about 20% more of their product. Clever marketing / deception has been around a long time.

Kind regards ...

"probably a lot older, but I can't think of any examples"

The Book of Genesis, Chapter 1, comes to mind.

This week I went to the big box hardware stores.. let's say all of them.. I wanted a 14" round tray to put under a potted plant to catch water before it got on the floor. I was astonished to find the trays costing about $6 to $10 and about as thick as a candy wrapper.. I bit my tongue and finally ended up at my local nursery who has far less "buying power". Their price for the same thing? $1.99.. that's how retailers rip off consumers.

Big Box stores are not like the Oldsmobile your father used to drive anymore

Mark up is very high on most things you buy.A cap that retails for $10 dollars is purchased from China for $.15 in bulk.

A prescription pill that retails for $5 costs only $.05 out the door of the manufacturer.

Lost of links in the supply chain,lots of mouths to feed.Brick and mortar to maintain,taxes,employee benefits, etc.regulations,....

The net is bringing the costs of some things down,and will continue to do so.

I have spent a great deal of money on net purchases that would have normally gone through local vendors,but competition is stiff.

If I can have a product delivered to my door via an internet order,why should I bother wasting gas and time elsewhere?

Ever try to get a local store to deliver,unpack, set up and explain a new 3D TV set for you,remove all packaging, and answer all questions, and put on protective booties when entering your home?

I recently received this top notch service from an internet vendor.

The final decision on where to allocate my money was still mine.

I did my homework and made comparisons before buying.

Carry a small pocket calculator with you when you when you shop to make it easy to compare price per unit values.Sometimes the "large economy size" actually costs more.

Good luck with your shopping.

I agree about buying direct, but doing so you have to make compromises, one being service. And even though you hear that service is being eroded, Some companies still gives good service.

That'll be the next compliant about buying direct.

I have been very "lucky" so far with this purchase.I needed warranty service, and the nearest authorized service technician was 200+ miles away.

He arrived on time, with all required parts, and had my unit fixed in less than 30 minutes.Very professional.

I have had local warranty repairs from incompetent technicians require multiple trips, parts ordering, reordering, etc.before repairs were complete.It took over a month to repair my dishwasher,(which all it needed was a heater element). I finally requested another service company and it was fixed with parts in stock on the service truck from the new company.

Local doesn't mean what it used to mean.Now days, just flip a coin.

I am very satisfied thus far with service from my on-line purchase.

I actually have to agree,

Back in the late 80's/ early ninties, I bought a workstation where the company custom built it for me.

Nanoa Monitor when out, and had to return the Monitor to California, I'm from Wisconsin.

being disappointed and thinking I was ripped off, soon changed when 3 weeks later, They find the problem, replaced the horizontal chip? and sent it back and I was hooking it up.

I actually have more faith in online then big box stores, They have to send it out also. And the online stores do not have the costs associated with brick and mortor.

One of the things to be aware of is that we are no longer in the Industrial Age and the ways of doing business is different in many ways. Sam Walton was visionary and saw what could be done in the distribution side of goods. Primarily, he made a couple of changes in the method of distribution, cutting out a couple of steps, and became the wealthiest individual in the world. He didn't make anything he just simplified the way the goods got from the manufacturer to the consumer. He was an amazing businessman who was visionary, hard-working, humble, disciplined in his business style. He was not afraid to take risks of breaking the "mold" of traditional retail and in doing so he beat all the "big boys" already in the game (Kresge, K-Mart, Target, etc.).

Like Hi-Tek-Red-Nek said, there are different ways of procurring products. Part of the problem is is that we are becoming so lazy as a society that we expect someone else (government) to protect us from anything and anyone, rather than taking personal responsibility.

The point of "let the buyer beware" is a critical point here. It is our responsibility to find the products and their associated value as we make purchases. The government can set regulations for weights and measures but we are the final arbiters of money spent. I also get hacked off when I have to pay a higher price for a smaller container of product.

I think it was Phoenix 911 that made the comment (this isn't exact but I think it was the gist of what he was saying) that we are too far gone as a society to ever be in a position where people care about one another. I'm not sure that is right. In the Westminster Abby there are tombs of past PM's and others; on the tomb of one is a comment of a man who said when he was young he had wanted to change the world but he couldn't do that. It came down to the fact that he realized if only he had made it a point to change himself he could have then influenced his family, his community, and so on. Individuals can make a difference, either for positive or negative.

Companies like Walmart on how they do business is cyclic.

How did Sears acquire Craftsman tools, Kenmore, ect. it was actually agreements to supplier. And like Walmart, it favored the company not the supplier, and it was vicious.

And doing it more efficiently Walmart knocked Sears off the top. but being cyclic, Walmart will be knocked off by someone else.

As far as,

I think it was Phoenix 911 that made the comment (this isn't exact but I think it was the gist of what he was saying) that we are too far gone as a society to ever be in a position where people care about one another.

I did mean to come out that way, but I admit my comments can have an edge to it. I feel I'm rather empathic and trusting, of which I been spanked for by being taking advanage of.

I rather look at it, that this is a game being played, you don't have to play it, BUT you have to understand and know how that game is played. To protect yourself, you cannot be niave.

Very Shortly we are going to have Wallmart stores here in India. There was hell of opposition in allowing FDI (foreign direct investment) for single brand in India. Govt. was in favor of Wallmart but opposition parties were opposing the proposal as it will kill local small traders. Wallmart has promised to supply commodities at cheaper prices as it will procure goods directly in bulk from farmers and factories. Even fate Govt. was in stake as it would have lost majority in parliament. But bill was passed by hook and crook way.Now only God knows what will happen to consumers who would buy goods from Wallmart.May be they would also get ripped.

Um....................that's the nature of a free market system. It's called competition.

Over the years, these hapless victims have had plenty of opportunity to stop them.

The original:

They are what they are, because their competitors didn't see them as a threat.

I'm in there every week. One of the smart things they do, is to buy locally whenever possible. I don't see Walmart as inherently evil. I see a lot of sore losers and sour grapes.

Walmart is what happens when other retailers lose sight of the ball.

After Sam died and the kids took over the "buy locally whenever possible" philosophy was abandoned and the "buy China" philosophy was adopted.

Think what our economy would be like if Walmart, with its present purchasing power, bought within the USA.

They still buy locally here. When produce is in season, the Walmart stuff is grown in NC.

The problem is, that we just don't make that much stuff in the US anymore. That's not Walmart's fault. The "Made in China" label, doesn't mean that it's not a US corporation that is making it over there.

You are assuming that Walmart is doing all of their buying from Chinese companies. Not true. They are primarily buying from US companies that have moved manufacturing to China.

Something to think about as we enter our next round of "punishing" corporate America.

http://instoresnow.walmart.com/article.aspx?Center=Food&top=87508&id=44214

Produce?

OK, I'll give you produce, but the horse is out of the barn when it comes to manufactured goods.

Walmart ruthlessly drives prices down to the point that if slave labor were available, someone would be bidding that into the price.

Maybe so. Here is a 1% list of US companies that manufacture in China. Walmart is the poster child of evil, but I don't think they can possibly be behind our shift to Chinese manufacturing.

I'm willing to allow for corporate greed to a certain extent, but as usual, I see the primary culprit as the US government. They are the ones that sign free trade agreements, and then make it next to impossible to produce anything in the US and earn a profit.

http://www.jiesworld.com/international_corporations_in_china.htm

"if slave labor were available"

Well, it is. Here's an article I read just this morning:

http://shine.yahoo.com/work-money/letter-chinese-laborer-pleading-help-found-halloween-decorations-202400773.html

An excerpt:

The letter describes the conditions at the factory: "People who work here have to work 15 hours a day without Saturday, Sunday break and any holidays. Otherwise, they will suffer torturement, beat and rude remark. Nearly no payment (10 yuan/1 month)." That translates to about $1.61 a month.

Well now.

Well now, indeed.

Do you suppose that the US government and every other government that signs off on all of these Chinese imports, is unaware of the conditions there?

I think not.

The bumbling idiots that we vote for, have placed us in a very precarious position. It's almost like we're on the edge of a cliff.

How do they ever get elected?$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

No when Sam was still in charge, and Walmart had a campaign going we buy American, it was discovered the clothing was from Pakistan. Walmart didn't buy American they bought, or I say they commanded the lowest price from its suppliers. No matter the consequence.

solid companies such Rubbermaid among others got sucked in and lost.

I rather suspect it is a bit more complicated than 'sour grapes and sore losers'. That is a character judgement only. The reality is Mom & Pop shops cannot compete against Walmart's enormous buying power and ability to absorb momentary losses in an effort to bury the local competition thereby. The only way they can survive is by filling or creating a niche. Going head-to-head against Walmart on their terms is suicide. You either meet a need that Walmart does not, or close shop.

Same with Microsoft, Home Depot, Lowes, AT&T, Apple, GE...........................

Should all of the large companies be slashed, so that locals have a better chance?

Level the playing field to be fair to the little guy?

Maybe if government set all prices........................or better yet, just ran all businesses. Then we would get a good deal. No one would be allowed to get rich or go broke.

Utopia!

Do Wallmart have free carparking ? If so, anybody who wanted could orchestrate a national parking day. Just leave a spare/junk car at Wallmart so that no shoppers can get in.

You mean people own all those cars? My bad!

pmsl !

Hey, I'm sure they wouldn't mind you putting in a bid.

Don't laugh. Ask me about the Beige Beauty sometime. No, ask my son - iff you can get him to stop laughing.

Go on, do tell. I'm intrigued. I'd rather hear your side of it first.

The only way they can survive is by filling or creating a niche. Going head-to-head against Walmart on their terms is suicide. You either meet a need that Walmart does not, or close shop.

It's the same with everything. The local hardware store vs Home Depot; the local hamburger joint vs McDonalds.

People do succeed with these big guys in town.

Just a little side link on Chinese goods, and the cost and quality of the things we buy. I believe this may play a role...........

http://jan.blog.ocregister.com/2010/09/24/federal-rules-cost-u-s-firms-1-75-trillion/45704/

We're on the same page I think, but just coming at it from different directions. Those regulatory costs are perhaps paying for this? Cost of War.

Completely different subject. Regulatory costs do not go to the government; they are dollars spent to stay in compliance with the rules.

We live in a free market economy, and no one yet has come up with anything better. It is the seller's responsibility to provide the maximum return to the investors in their enterprise. It is the buyer's responsibility to determine the value of what they pay for.

You beat me to it.

Now it's, "What have you done for me today?"

The stock market defies logic..............at least to me.

Once upon a time, brokers and others that played in stocks actually had to do research on the various companies and their products. Now with computers and 24 hour news cycles, everything is on a whim, and millions or billions are moved with a mouse click. Facebook is a perfect example...................no rhyme or reason for the owner to be a gazzillionaire. He never sold anything to get that money. It was all speculation on what might happen.

That guy's richer than he ever dreamed. Why would he care about the end user?

The Stock Market obeys fractal logic with a smattering of that Golden Ratio business. About as non-linear as it gets.

"Love of money is the root of all evil." Whomever wrote that wasn't just whistlin' dixie.

Research has shown that if you eat your meal from a smaller plate, you will eat less.Your eyes fool your brain into believing you have eaten more that you really have.

Putting less product in the same container is just the government's way of helping us lose weight.Less ice cream, less candy, less fat,etc.You know the government has to protect us from ourselves and our own stupidity. Rest assured,They are doing it for our own good.

Eventually, after a couple of more generations of dumbing down, no one will know the meaning of an ounce, or kg, or a pound,just like now it is not necessary to be able to count return change or know the price of an item.Just scan it in,or press the button with the burger on it,or put your coin in the machine and select you choice.

The man machine interface will eventually become implanted at birth(which will probably be in-vitro), and then you will only have to think about what you want,and alternate reality will be so real that you think you actually got it,ate it, drink it, used it, etc.,right up till the time you die.

To the select few "behind the curtain", you are mere cattle:Must keep them content,keep them consuming,keep the economy moving so that they can live in their alternate reality of yachts,planes,etc.

Maybe I should write a book......

The movie Idiocracy isn't too far off the mark....

Anyone notice my reply above was corrupted?

Wrong Avatar,wrong emoticon?

I guess that Trojan is at it again....

Looks fine to me.

"Never try to appeal to a man's better nature.He may not have one."...Hmm.. can't remember where I heard that, but it stuck....

The quote has been attributed to Robert A. Heinlein. At least a couple of places continue it a bit further: "Never try to appeal to a man's better nature. He may not have one. Invoking his self-interest gives you more leverage." I'm still not sure of the precise source; it might be from Time Enough for Love, as shown by WikiQuotes (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein). They don't show the added section, though, so maybe it's from one of the follow-ups, like The Notebooks of Lazarus Long.

A little FFT:

Imagine a Wal Mart-Cracy.....a government operating the way Wal Mart runs business......

How would it work?...Use your imagination for this imaginary nation...

On top of all the interesting reading here, let's figure out how long wine bottles have had that great big indentation in the bottom (Ya, I know there's supposed to be a reason for it!). As the saying goes, There's nothing new under the sun!

This thread has taken off in several different directions, each of which is an interesting and volatile topic in itself.I would like to continue on with this topic, but this doesn't seem to be the right place. I wanted to bring up the subject of how the internet has become a major avenue for advertising; lots of which are deceptive, but doing so here will throw this thread into chaos.

I found some old 12 gauge wiring in a box in the shed. I compared it to the new roll I bought. They were both marked 12 gauge on the insulation. But by todays standards the old stuff would be closer to 10 gauge. I can't blame the store but I am curious why the change in standards.

Measure the wire.

If the old wire is really 10 ga. that was just bonus wire, anyway.

From Wiki: Sorry the columns are askew.

Thanks for the chart. The wire is in the walls and not likely to be coming out anytime soon. I did not measure it but it is definitely much thicker then the new stuff. I was / am curious if anyone else had noticed this change a well. Or, maybe no change has happened and it as as you said just a bonus.

Maybe wire has gone the way of the 2x4?

Maybe it's the higher purity of new copper wire that requires thinner cross sections?

I don't know.

Are you looking at the copper portion of the wire, or the Romex cable as a whole?

The newer insulations are more efficient and thinner than the older versions.

The conductor itself should be the same diameter.Wire gauges have not changed in the

USA.

By the way, the ampacity of the wire is determined not solely by the gauge of the wire, but by the rating of the temperature of the insulation as well.

I was looking at the conductor not the insulation.

If this was used in a duplex receptacle, #10 would be very difficult to manage.

#12 is not really easy on a duplex either.

If you really want to know the gauge of the wire, use a wire gauge to measure it.The sizes of standard conductor gauge has not changed in my lifetime.

I have seen some optical illusions, however, when comparing objects side by side vs actual measurement;example: a fence post laying down looks much shorter than when it is standing up.I cut a bunch at a measured 8 feet long, and when I looked at the stack, I thought I had mis-cut the whole batch.The tape measure, however, told the truth.

Here is a link for more info on wire sizes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

I would really like to know the results of your measurement, having been in the electrical trade for over 40 years.

Please provide feedback.

Thanks

I'll try to get time tonight to see if there is any left that is not in the walls. If so I will measure it and take pix as well.

This thread definitely deserves a CR4 section of it's own. I would think of it as a consumer protection blog. It would warn the consumer to fraud and deception; a definitely good public service.

Interest in this sort of topic is widespread. Here's an article that touches upon service purchases, as well as tangible goods - but the concepts and "fixes" are valid. http://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/info-04-2012/reading-the-fine-print.html?cmp=NLC-RSS-DAILY-BULLETIN-010213-M2.

In little Belgium, we have a bureau of standards. All has to be calibrated.

Length, weight, volume - to name a few.

Preservatives and additives in foods are regulated. (brings cancer cases down)

When butchers use a fraction of what is allowed in the US, they get a warning the first time, an extensive fine the second time and a poster on the shop window and door - this butcher is poisoning you- and the third time they close the business down.

Same for manufacturers.

You can complain about law breakers and they will be prosecuted.

Besides that, there is a consumer's organisation that tests off the shelf products. compares competition goods all the time and publishes the results, or come on TV with it. In fact the consumer CAN be the boss.

Manufacturers fear this and competition is more honest.

Water content in meat, bread and even water packages is regulated, hormones, antibiotics, engineered food and food processing is controlled or forbidden.

Cheese is cheese,

The maximal price of bread is regulated, also the weight form and volume per category.

Just some ideas of how long the way is towards a more honest society.

Caesare dixit: divide et impera, and that is exactly what brings down individual power.

(brainwashed pseudo democracy terminology)

United we stand has to be executed as consumer.

I am just testing powder sugar that is supposed to be hammered or pulverized crystal sugar, but it turns white when in water. Added calcium or flour @the price of sugar?

I will stop here.

we have a bureau of standards. All has to be calibrated.We have the same in the States with the standards.

We have that also in the States.

But your statement of Cheese is cheese is not correct.

With cheese, the requirements they is room for differences with the biggest difference being moisture content. And depending how this cheese is produce plays highly on the weight as well as the quality.

When its made into 20 and 40 lb loafs you could control the quality, but when they started making it in larger containers such as 500 lb barrels and 640 lb blocks. consistency of cheese vary, from the outer most portion of the block to the core.

The mass would be different between the outermost and the core of these blocks. As well as the quality. At first with the higher production, this was not a problem, that companies were even looking at doing 700 lb and 900 lb blocks. (this is can be a different process where the block was formed continuous through a process called Cheese Towers.)

All the whey would not drain off especially in the core and the pH would be acidic, leaving streaks due to the higher acid content.

Along with this, the companies would have exact weight cutters, to save a fraction of the weight this would add dramatically to the bottom line, but to do so, their had to be a constant feed back on the automated equipment due to the inconsistency of the cheese.

And the reason for that, is allot of companies who cut and package these cheeses buy their cheese off the market, where it would come from several manufactures.

As far as your statement:

Added calcium or flour @the price of sugar?

No you allowed a window to how much water content can be in your cheese, a tightly run process always has this on the large end, because basically when you're be selling water, you improve the bottom line,

I remember a TV show back in the late 70's or early 80's called "Fight Back". They would test claims of manufactures about product performance and quality. They also looked into consumer claims of fraud. I remember one instance a dog food manufacturer was switching to a new formula but still had a bunch of old labels. They put the old labels on the new product and the show busted them for it after receiving a tip from a consumer. I never hard why they went off the air. Maybe the advertising people ran out of honest manufacturers to seek out to run commercials during the show.

they bit the hand that feeds them.

Whew! A lot of room for tangential posting. I've been "away" for almost 2 weeks and find this thread.

One of my pet peeves is that a single "sheet" of toilet paper in the brand I buy is no longer a "square" like it used to be. It's sold as "1,000 Sheets." So changing the size of a "sheet" reduces cost while allowing the marketer to keep the price stable. I know they are only trying to help me stay on a budget.

Unfortunately, the "game," as some are wont to call it, is played (on many fronts in our lives) in our minds. Psychological manipulation techniques have been investigated and around for decades. Some here may remember the book, "Subliminal Seduction," which certainly became controversial and somewhat defused as hype. But here's an article from "Psychology Today," that revisits the concept.

I don't think it's any secret that many companies have utilized the fruits of psychological research to manipulate (a word they would probably never use) consumers at a subconscious level of mind. And the results are positive enough that the techniques remain in place. One such area is the use of music in stores. I found a slide presentation from the University of Edinburgh, about the power of music as a tool of manipulation, that has a lot of seeds for consideration. And I found this related "experiment" carried out by a member of "The Association for Consumer Research."

And who isn't familiar with Frank Luntz? Whenever I think about him, and his craft, I also think about George Carlin's comparison of the terms "Shell Shock" and "Battle Fatigue." (He also goes further referring to PTSD, but that is now applied to "stress" in many situations, not just war.)

And how about this article?

We can more easily figure out attempts to "fool" us via product alterations, such as package size vs. content, etc. It's the more subtle ways of manipulating us as a human being (reduced to consumer, voter, etc.), that strikes me as more dishonest -- nefarious might even be not too extreme. We're in a war all right, and don't even know it.

Psychological manipulation techniques

You said it, it dips into marketing where there is alot to be said with the color 'red'. Or how about Or how about subliminal messages in movies. I guess this was popular back in the 50's, but a quick search, it pretty prevelent today.

I recall a friend of mine always bought items from LTD, well she was opening one of her latest purchases and the look of disgust on her face, I asked her whats wrong, She asked my opinion, look at this, does this look like a ceramic clock to you.

It was a plastic clock that looked like it belonged in a Chucky or Some Scary Clown movie.

I looked at it, and then at the picture in the catalog, I had to laugh when I told her, it sure doesn't look like the picture, does it?