Is This the Right Room For an Argument

Woah - we're engineers here. Not communicating well in written word is part of the definition of engineer. When I entered PSU in 1968, the Dean of Engineering told us in a large assembly of incoming engineers that English was our foreign language. We would communicate in drawings and numbers. So here we are with a written word forum and you expect us to be clear and concise in our "foreign language"?

Many an engineer has saved their company vast amounts of money by understanding the difference between what the customer wants, needs, and what the contract actually states. Colorful prose that stimulates the mind to fill in the voids works wonderfully in literature and other artistic ventures. Engineering (and not tinkering) requires precise communication to the fabricators, testers, procurement, managers, etc. how and when a widget should be built.

I agree to the prose thing - which is why I am NOT in sales - I let my drawings, and Excel spreadsheets do the talking. The last time I sent an email here to a project manager, with a very concise description of what was wrong with a plan without including a drawing, I was literally asked to please send it again in English. Words are not an engineer's strong point.

I actually cringe when I have to fill in the electrical description portion of a quote proposal. I usually just include a group of drawings and reference them. Yes - I do drawings for a simple quote.

Many years back in my technical writing class, the bonus question on the first exam was elegantly simple... "In ten words or less explain the most import thing in writing anything." I obtained extra credit with three words. "Know your reader."

This simple concept is what I believe is eluding rashavarek in his writing here. It is a very common flaw many people have when they cross disciplines with their information. A flowery writing style that makes one person think will lead another to dismiss as useless gobbledygook.

It seems to me that rashavarek started this thread in a wonderful humorous fashion that again drifted into imprecision. Since the stated goal of this thread was his tendency for the intent to be lost I felt a focused reply was appropriate. Coming from a social worker back ground, the sharpness of my replies could be considered offensive. While I did not intend to be rude, being curt can appear that way. My only regret here is that Madison is a bit far for me to visit and lift a cold one. I suspect that if and when I could meet rashavarek face to face we would have a great time debating over some cold ones.

Wow -you had a technical writing class. I think I should have had the opportunity to learn to write better. However, since my nature tends to be one of being very short with those who can't follow my thopughts, like that character "Bones" on Fox TV, (not the Star Trek character - the forensic anthropologist) I would no doubt still have an issue. Probably would have failed the class.

Well, I do admit that rashavarek's post did seem to deteriorate into a questionable continuity. I did manage to follow it though, except the part about New Orleans. I obviously have missed something in the past on CR4.

What I have experienced, is engineers actually make the best sales for the company.

Once the customer gets the contact for the engineer, he/she will bypass any sales front (or social worker) and go directly to the engineers.... for a straight answer.

^{Just don't have them type up the answer.......}

It's not the length of your posts that is the problem, it's the utter lack of content....You have nothing to say but mundane observations, that are dubious at best...and mind-numbingly boring to be sure.....it's not communication skills you lack, it's substance....Your attempt to quantify us a some rare breed apart, that lacks the ability to understand and communicate with the outside world, is clearly an attempt to characterize yourself as misunderstood by reason of disparity....it won't fly,,,we communicate with all life forms....

Originally when I read this post, I thought this was another troll looking to stir CR4 up like so many before. He opened the door for anything, serious or stupid, and replied to most of us.

After reading his replies, I thought to myself, I think I like this guy. Maybe I need to go to Wisconsin and have a beer with him.

I say bravo to you rashavarek, although I still can't read your long responses without slipping into a coma, all the others were great, even the ones to the silly comments like mine.

BTW, Wisconsin is still a suburb of the U.P. of Michigan

Mr. JPool,

In light of your repeated attempts at disparaging our fair city of Madison I feel it necessary to throw down the Boot (thats a container for drinking beer, not footwear) and invite you to Madison for some remedial beer drinking! I think the Ale Asylum http://aleasylum.com/ would be right up your alley. A side course in fried cheese curds and bratwurst will be provided.

So, what are the rest of us?

Chopped liver?

Actually lyn, Im inclined to go with steak tartar,, but you can be braunschwiger if you like. And please, you're all invited to come enjoy the beer and the ambiance. Hey I managed to post from my smart phone WOOHOO so no spell check, sorry.

braunschwiger , with onions??? ............

its hard to rile you when you pull that out.........

^{little disappointed you didn't mention cannibal sandwiches.....}

phoenix911 wrote:

braunschwiger , with onions??? ............

On a good strong marble rye please!

yes, I actually wrote that, but took it off.

With natural casings, right?

Good morning Folks,

I will be dropping a few more replys today as time allows.

Yeah I still work, Can't help it have some expensive habits like food, clothes, gas, etc.

Again I thank all of you for participating. It has been helpful for me.

I see now that what passes for good communication in the Human Services field is a bit long winded for this crowd and I am beginning to think for engineers in general.

I will try to fire off more complete and yet brief posts and see if that helps. I tried it out this morning at the status teleconference and it seemed to work better.

So much for a slow Friday and going home early.

Rashavarek,

You sure have spent a lot of time on this thread. I wish I had that much time on my hands.

A great big THANK YOU is in order.

All of you, who take pleasure in helping others solve problems have done just that.

I appologise for the unusual methodology, it was necessary in order to get your best answers.

If I had ask for your help I would have gotten your best efforts. I didn't need that, I needed your most cutting, to the point critique, No holds barred and quickly. Many of you delivered on that as expected.

At this mornings meeting I learned the exercise was a success. The presentation that took me all weekend to write was actually accepted this morning. I especially thank the two of you who realized what I was trying to do and sent copies of counter proposals you had written.Send me your addresses and I will send the beer!

Lastly, this thread garnered some, what I can only take as challenges to verbal repartee. Due to the focused nature of what I needed I usually did not respond after the first day.

SO, Eagle, Red and the rest of you who dropped your little bombs on my porch, I am ready, willing, and able to accomodate you with this one caveat, we keep it clean, above the belt, and in good fun. Agreed?

Otherwise I am happy to let this thread fade and start a new one in its place for the above mention fun.

Again, I thank all of you.

Sincerely,

Rashavarek

Damn. Being an engineer who defaults heavily to the truth, I find it extremely hard to tell an untruth, I tend to expect that other engineers are the same and this, with a few exceptions, is backed up by over fifty years of experience. I am not naive, I know that this tendency to truth in all things is not the norm in the world. So, this being an engineering forum, I spent time and effort to answer the dummy part of your question, the carrier for something more important to you.

Now I feel like a bloody fool, especially because I cannot see how this thread about being afraid of natural and unnatural risks, helped you write a negative report on a piece of equipment.