Previous in Forum: Suction Center for Metering Pump   Next in Forum: Boiler Valves
Close
Close
Close
22 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Commentator
India - Member - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Hyderabad,Telangana , India
Posts: 80
Good Answers: 1

Water Content In Air Line

07/25/2013 9:57 AM

In our process we are air receiver of 3 cu m capacity. Always I am finding water in receiver . When I checked in compressor area water is draining out completely. My doubt is moisture is creating in the line itself. What would be the possible reason for that. Pl let me know. Nithin

__________________
When Emotions runs high ,Intellectual wont work
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
3
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: water content in air line

07/25/2013 10:06 AM

The time for the air drying equipment downstream of the compressor to be serviced/replaced/added to the installation is overdue.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 7425
Good Answers: 295
#2

Re: water content in air line

07/25/2013 10:07 AM

"What would be the possible reason..." Moisture in the newly compressed air is condensing. If the air isn't dry enough, moisture will indeed condense within the cooler air lines. Increase the capacity of your dryer.

Compressed air glossary.

__________________
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#3

Re: water content in air line

07/25/2013 10:11 AM
Register to Reply
2
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancleave, Ms about 30 miles inland from Biloxi and the coast
Posts: 3197
Good Answers: 106
#5
In reply to #3

Re: water content in air line

07/25/2013 12:49 PM

PVC should never be used for compressed air or gases. Every catalog that lists PVC has that warning.

__________________
Mr.Ron from South Ms.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#6
In reply to #5

Re: water content in air line

07/25/2013 1:03 PM

Yes, I agree with you, mostly. DO NOT USE PVC PIPE FOR COMPRESSED AIR SERVICE.

But.........if my compressor can only put out 125 PSI, I might be tempted to use it myself.

PVC Pipes - Pressure Ratings - Engineering ToolBox
1" PVC has a burst pressure of 1,440PSI and a working pressure of 270 PSI.

Register to Reply
3
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 147
Good Answers: 9
#8
In reply to #6

Re: water content in air line

07/25/2013 2:34 PM

Having worked in a facility that pressure tested PVC pipe, fittings and valves, I would NEVER use PVC any place that it was not recommended. I don't like sharp, pointy shrapnel flying around. Also, it is not just about burst pressure, but cyclic pressure changes, sharp pressure changes, and compatibility with compressor oils.

Mike

__________________
You have to actively participate in the manifestations of your own joys and good fortunes - they are not ready made for the taking, they are available for the making.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Fans of Old Computers - PDP 11 - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stronger Than The Storm
Posts: 2394
Good Answers: 203
#12
In reply to #8

Re: water content in air line

07/25/2013 11:40 PM

Excellent response. Because it shatters with shards it is comparable to a claymore mine when it goes. Also, if this is in the USA, PVC is strictly banned by OSHA and they give big fines for it. Make you shut it down immediately till you replace it. i.e. cost of replacement, cost of temporary loss of business, you know the rest.

Consulted at a place that used PVC for air. Despite our objections to it and verifying the need to replace it based on past accidents the owner refused to replace it until-- He and a mechanic were passing by an elbow/pipe joint when it blew. Owner had a piece in his shoulder down to the bone, one in his face and two in his torso. Soon after he was taken to a trauma center with the PVC still embedded in him. Mechanic had similar but less serious injuries. I was the first one to get to them. My clothes needed to be changed because of all the blood! They were running 80-90psi in the system.

Unfortunately, this was not the only accident of it's type there. I finished my work and got out of there!

Good Luck, Old Salt

__________________
Any day on the green side of the grass is a GREAT DAY!, --- me +++++++++. I believe creativity is an inherent part of everyone. --- Kermit T. Frog
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 142
Good Answers: 1
#18
In reply to #12

Re: water content in air line

07/26/2013 3:30 PM

Wow who suggested using PVC? I didn't see it in the OP or other posts. Maybe I missed something while scrolling.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Fans of Old Computers - PDP 11 - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stronger Than The Storm
Posts: 2394
Good Answers: 203
#19
In reply to #18

Re: water content in air line

07/26/2013 4:58 PM

Pipeit----

One of the earlier posts suggested it. Obviously you can see from my post, #12, that I am adamantly against this and why. Not referring to anyone in particular, but this type of use is extremely dangerous, risks the life of the user and others and can be a lethal weapon. Although I wish I hadn't, I have seen this happen more times than I should have, as detailed in my "war story" in #12.

As for the OSHA statement, anyone who doubts me can go to osha.gov, do a search within the site for "compressed air" and clearly see that what I state is true. As you can see in my post #16, the manufacturer is very clear and has a very forceful warning about it's possible use with compressed air. The things that make it so dangerous for this use are that it breaks into very sharp and sometimes large pieces and for such a long time. An added hazard is that air is a compressible medium while most liquids are not. A break with water in it causes the pressure to drop immediately, except for the make-up water if the system is pumped or otherwise being fed. With air the medium keeps on coming until the internal pressure is equalized to ambient pressure. Depending upon the system size, this can be an appreciable time, all the time pushing these sharp pieces in all directions. This is the same reason why tanks and cylinders are hydro tested with water and not air. A leak with water causes a dribble, air is an explosion.

I hope this clarifies my reasons for the posts although it was not mentioned in the OP's post.

Good Luck, Old Salt

__________________
Any day on the green side of the grass is a GREAT DAY!, --- me +++++++++. I believe creativity is an inherent part of everyone. --- Kermit T. Frog
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Fans of Old Computers - PDP 11 - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stronger Than The Storm
Posts: 2394
Good Answers: 203
#16
In reply to #6

Re: water content in air line

07/26/2013 7:56 AM

The following warnings are from the Technical Manual of Charlotte Pipe, a large manufacturer of plastic piping--

http://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/PL_Tech_Man/Charlotte_Plastics_Tech_Manual.pdf

They are saying that Compressed Air, at any pressure, IS NOT TO BE USED WITH PVS PIPING.

If necessary, see my war story in post #12. There are many more like that.

Good Luck, Old Salt

__________________
Any day on the green side of the grass is a GREAT DAY!, --- me +++++++++. I believe creativity is an inherent part of everyone. --- Kermit T. Frog
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Fans of Old Computers - PDP 11 - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stronger Than The Storm
Posts: 2394
Good Answers: 203
#17
In reply to #16

Re: water content in air line

07/26/2013 2:53 PM

Please pardon keyboarding, it should be PVC not PVS in the latter part.

Good Luck, Old Salt

__________________
Any day on the green side of the grass is a GREAT DAY!, --- me +++++++++. I believe creativity is an inherent part of everyone. --- Kermit T. Frog
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#20
In reply to #5

Re: water content in air line

07/27/2013 8:02 AM

Could you explain where you obtained a post here mentioning PVC? (before yours of course!)

You appear to have read something that none of us have seen....maybe I am missing something, that I need new glasses for example!!

Thanks in advance.

PS. Someone else asked the same question and did not get a reply...

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Fans of Old Computers - PDP 11 - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stronger Than The Storm
Posts: 2394
Good Answers: 203
#21
In reply to #5

Re: water content in air line

07/27/2013 12:51 PM

Ronseto-

Please pardon me, but I would like to provide some information to you concerning a post addressed to you, #20, in reply to #5. If this is of no assistance to you, please simply use your "Del" key. Thank you in advance.

Concerning the initial mention of PVC piping as questioned in #20, as a use for compressed air, please refer to post #6. My posts were: #'s 13, 16, and 19. A portion of #6, of which my intention for the posts was not to be critical of the original poster but to provide additional information, clearly stated the possible consideration of using PVC for compressed air under certain conditions. It stated:

Yes, I agree with you, mostly. DO NOT USE PVC PIPE FOR COMPRESSED AIR SERVICE.

But.........if my compressor can only put out 125 PSI, I might be tempted to use it myself.

I interpreted the "I might be tempted to use it" as someone might consider using it now or in the future. If I read this wrong please let me know. My posts concerning it's use were directed to all, not just the poster, since the manufacturers, OSHA, many former users, and industrial societies where it is of concern, all state it is extremely dangerous to use for compressed air and should never be considered for this application. These were stated by me, with a picture of one manufacturer's warning, to remind readers of these hazards. An explanation of how it happens and the potential results of this were clearly stated. My motivation was that if this information alerted at least one person about the dangers then my time was well spent. At least one person has agreed with this.

The reason for this posting was prompted by the question addressed to you stating: Could you explain where you obtained a post here mentioning PVC?

Having seen many of your postings in the past, clear and explanatory, you would probably agree that any potential poster should have fully read all postings, instead of possibly skimming, prior to posting a question, comment or solution.

Those who this is of no concern to please "DEL". Those who consider this posting to be more than just a rhetorical keyboarding exercise, please remember that the question is not merited and is a waste of my time, your time and the initiators time. To paraphrase a well known saying: "Look before you leap!".

Readers, thank you all for your time to read this. I sincerely hope that it is never necessary for anyone to have to post anything similar to it in the future. The origin, especially, and the subsequent clarifying reply are counterproductive to the root reason for this forum!

Ronseto, again thank you in advance,

Good Luck, Old Salt

__________________
Any day on the green side of the grass is a GREAT DAY!, --- me +++++++++. I believe creativity is an inherent part of everyone. --- Kermit T. Frog
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster #1
#4

Re: Water Content In Air Line

07/25/2013 12:38 PM

Nothin,

Water accumulation is a problem in every compressed air system ever made.

Get an automatic drain valve for your receiver....

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - Old Salt Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rosedale, Maryland USA
Posts: 5197
Good Answers: 266
#7

Re: Water Content In Air Line

07/25/2013 1:34 PM

Your talking about condensing vapor. It does not automatically form a droplet like rain. The condensed molecule has to collect with others to form a droplet you can see. With the turbulence of the air movement not all of the molecules of water get to collect into something big enough to drop out of the flow. In the receiver there is much less turbulence so more collects. This is your condensate that your getting from your receiver. You only mention your compressor no dryer. The after cooler on the compressor will drop the air temperature some to lower the dew point and remove some of the moisture. With out a refrigerated dryer the walls of the receiver would be a lot cooler then the compressed air condensing water on the inside walls.

__________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty, pristine body but rather to come sliding in sideways, all used up and exclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!"
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#9

Re: Water Content In Air Line

07/25/2013 3:04 PM

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Glen Mills, PA.
Posts: 2385
Good Answers: 114
#10

Re: Water Content In Air Line

07/25/2013 8:47 PM

I've wondered about this. I use a bubbler on my oxygen concentrator but even when it is empty, I get precipitation in the hose when the humidity is high. Similarly, on humid days there is precipitation in my nebulizer tubing. Neither is high pressure.

__________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
Register to Reply
2
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 136
Good Answers: 19
#11

Re: Water Content In Air Line

07/25/2013 9:24 PM

>When I checked in compressor area water is draining out completely.


Air coming out of the compressor is hot. The ability of air to hold moisture increases with temperature. Hot air has the capacity to retain much of its moisture, but some of the moisture is removed in your air dryer.

>My doubt is moisture is creating in the line itself.

Ex Nihilo? Out of nothing water is created?
No. As the air cools it loses its capacity to hold moisture. Air moving through ambient temperatuer distribution piping cools the compressed air cools even more. Moisture condenses out as the air loses its ability to hold moisture. It is the condensed moisture and water that you find in the pipes.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Fans of Old Computers - PDP 11 - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stronger Than The Storm
Posts: 2394
Good Answers: 203
#13

Re: Water Content In Air Line

07/26/2013 12:05 AM

As others have stated- air is hot in receiver so it doesn't collect there. Condenses as it travels through the cooler piping.

Near term or long time solution. Install drip legs at the lower portions of piping. Place a valve and a union at the bottom of the drip leg. From the union install a strainer (a Y strainer is good) with a valve on the particle outlet. Run a pipe from the strainers outlet to a compressed air moisture drain valve. (McMaster #41645K48 or equiv.) to automatically remove the water. Water stays in the drip leg and drains toward the moisture valve, junk removed by strainer, condensate goes to the moisture removal valve where it is automatically removed.

Put as many drip legs in the piping as needed as the air travels through the piping.

Also make sure all your drop legs (outlets for air) go up from the piping and then go horizontal and then vertically down to the apparatus. This will keep water in the main pipe where it will it will be removed by the drip legs and the other pieces. If needed install the same water removal set-up at the bottom of the drop leg before the use of the air. Outlets should always go vertically up and then down.

There was a similar post about 2 weeks ago: Drying Air from 3 50 HP Atlas Copco Screws. Suggest you look there. Many fine solutions were given for it.

Good Luck, Old Salt

__________________
Any day on the green side of the grass is a GREAT DAY!, --- me +++++++++. I believe creativity is an inherent part of everyone. --- Kermit T. Frog
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: I am located in Mumbai,India.
Posts: 125
Good Answers: 2
#14

Re: Water Content In Air Line

07/26/2013 1:31 AM

When you compress air, the moisture in the air condenses and collects in receiver. This needs to be removed and is removed by using moisture/water trap. Still, some water will pass on in the lines. Depending on the quality of air you need in the process, you need to provide air dryer.

You will also find some oil in the lines that can affect further processes.

__________________
Rajesh
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 4216
Good Answers: 194
#15

Re: Water Content In Air Line

07/26/2013 4:30 AM

Where does your compressor get it's air to compress?

What is the humidity of that air?

Need I say more?

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5
#22

Re: Water Content In Air Line

07/28/2013 4:14 PM

Check your dryer the température must beau under 3celcius . If ou savent à dryer intall one on the outlet of the compressor

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 22 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Andy Germany (1); Anonymous Poster (1); Bud (1); Doorman (1); haouch (1); lyn (2); Mike W (1); Mikerho (1); old salt (6); ozzb (1); passingtongreen (1); pipeit (1); PWSlack (1); ronseto (1); rsalaskar (1); SolarEagle (1)

Previous in Forum: Suction Center for Metering Pump   Next in Forum: Boiler Valves

Advertisement