Automotive Technology

I rather found the whole using an underpowered engine to drive a generator to charge batteries that power a electric motor to drive the power train a bit over complicated myself.

Direct engine to hydrostatic drive train systems are simple reliable and have been well proven, for several decades now, by the commercial, industrial, mining, and farming applications for being long lasting very efficient and very economical.

I don't see why hydrostatic drive trains are still not being developed by the automotive industry. It greatly simplifies everything while yielding high working efficiency's greater than that of any present engine/generator/electric drive hybrid systems currently used.

Hydrostatic drive trains aren't often used because of their low efficiency.

This isn't a problem for some applications eg farming, where the wheel speeds are low and the torque required is high, but for cars, where the speed range is wide, it is.

If it was viable some car manufacturer would be already using it.

I would agree with the electric drive train system design for vehicles IF they were designed like the commercial and industrial equipment systems are, simple, rugged, reliable and efficient. Unfortunately thats not how the systems are currently being designed. They toss far to much unnecessary crap in that in turn reduces all of the attributes that the chimerical systems are known for.

As far as hydraulic drive I work around hydraulic systems and they are simple rugged reliable and very durable. The hydrostatic technology of today is far from what it was even 20 years ago. There are pumps and motors now with working efficiencies greater than 98%.

In regards to getting cut in half by high pressure fluid, WTF? I have been around many burst hydraulic lines over the years even on systems exceeding 5000 PSI and I have yet to ever see anything more than a big mess occur certainly no fatalities or injuries ever happened.

Unless that high pressure line is routed right under the driver seat I am not the least bit concerned about it.

In regards to getting cut in half by high pressure fluid, WTF? I have been around many burst hydraulic lines over the years even on systems exceeding 5000 PSI and I have yet to ever see anything more than a big mess occur certainly no fatalities or injuries ever happened.

You need pressures around 45,000 psi to start seriously cutting things.

Normal hydraulic pressures are not much of a problem in that regard.

So, what pressures do you think hydraulic accumulators run?

I guess"cut in half" was a bit drammatic, but anyone dealing seriously with modern hydraulics and diesel (hydraulics again) engine fuel injection systems will know about the very real dangers of getting in the way of high pressure fluid.

Have seen a shocking mess as the result of inadvertent 'injecting' of diesel fuel into a hand, when no medical assistance was available. The human bloodstream doesn't take kindly to being contaminated with petroleum oils.

And Murphy knows that's about when the worst accidents happen.

Stu.

An engine operating at a fixed speed can be optimized and therefore operate in the most economic zone.

Hybrids are here to stay I believe.

On topic; Yes, Hybrid cars are a passing fancy.

In two documented cases, Honda Civics have exhibited declining gas mileage with age/mileage.

In at least one case the replacement cost of the battery was $5,500.

Will the one who voted this reply as "off topic" come forward and explain?

For me, hybrids seem to offer the "worst of both worlds", but are probably a necessary development step in community undestanding.

They still have the IC engine with the associated fossil fuel usage and as pointed out there are are alternatives in similar vehicle sizes that are comparable in "efficiency"

The electric drives are also well understood technology as we've had decades using motors in all sorts of application.

The weak link still seems to be power storage technology. Electrochemical batteries have inherent weight/mass issues. They also have long re-charge times (compared to filling up with liquid fuel) and so need to be trickle charged on the go to provide distances we all expect.

There were some interesting advances in capacitor technology in recent years. Provided they can achieve low leakage, the possibility for charging capacitors gives the answer to the re-fueling cycle time.

Why is everyone stuck on the precept of "liquid fuel"? Many of the discussions in these forums have shown how poor the generation efficiency of those fuels can be.

Right you are about liquid fuels.

The ultimate powertrain will be a fuel cell filled up with "some liquid fuel"??? That's a rather illusory prediction.

The biggest weakness of hybrids is increased weight because of the batteries.

The Ford Focus is apparently more efficient than a Prius, because the Focus is so much lighter as well as being designed to be efficient.

Until the problem of energy storage is solved, hybrid and electric will have trouble being viable.

Ultra capacitors show some promise, as does a hybrid system using flywheels as energy store, but these are basically developments for the future and not viable now. (Flywheel storage is quite an old idea and could probably be used effectively now. I'm not sure why it isn't. Maybe suitable flywheels can't handle the shock and vibration of a moving vehicle?)

Fuel cells are also promising, except they currently need either fairly pure methane or hydrogen fuel and a suitable fuel manufacture and distribution system isn't available.

Zinc/Bromine flow battery is also promising, but the thought of large amounts of bromine being loose in the event of an accident is somewhat frightening.

I'm eagerly anticipating new items currently under development finally becoming usable.

We can look forward to quite a bit of change over the next couple of decades.

The finnal solution will be " THE Transfer of enrgy by light " The proponents of Global warming have totaly screwd up our vehicles so thet won't run ,can't be fixed .cost a fortune and get very low milage .If you disagree just buy a 3/4 ton diesel truck that is off warenty. EG the Ford 250 diesel trucks get 9 miles to the gallon .Cost $10,000 to change a head gasket .The new Freifgtliner has four radiators ,you can't see the motor to work on it .you will need two mechanics to get these hybrids fixed God help you if you have a late modle vehicle that is off warranty How many batteries does it take to replace a 600 horse power diesel motor ? The big joke this week is the global warming convention is in Cancun ,why isn't it in the northern hemisphere where they are breaking cold record temperatures .