Workbench Creations

14 people have viewed so far, and nobody has commented ! Ingrates !! It's bloody marvelous, old chap. Can I have a copy of the knitting patter, it's a bit nippy down here as well ? Nah, just pulling your legs, it's really neat and well woth putting up the video. Aprox how many hours go into making a longbow ? I know you have to wait ages for the wood to season and all that type aspect, but how long is the hands on tools bow bit ? It looks like a lot of careful shaping, sanding, etc.

Cheers.
I'd guess 40 hours or so...I keep meaning to log my time on a bow, but it's just not the sort of thing I have the inclination or discipline to do. I just say to Mr's Cat 'popping out to the garage to tinker with my bow...won't be long'
'Yes Dear'
I re-surface 2hours later from what was going to be a 10 minute stint.
Del

(10 of those viewings were pob' me)

I love the Chinese Repeating Bow!

Isn't that considered an assault weapon?

Yeh, it's not the sort of thing to take to the town centre.
Law currently says I can't even take a lonbow out in public uncovered.
Although I do occaisionally demonstrate my bows on the local playing fields (if they are empty).
Del

Hi Del,

Keep up the good work, maybe we will be needing bows to get us out of the EU, as at Agincourt!!!

Spencer.

ALL weapons are, by their definition, ASSAULT weapons. That is their purpose after all, to ASSAULT someone.

Del, Incredible! I'm inspired to get back to work on a crossbow of mine. I put one together out of parts from here and there, but the draw weight isn't what I wanted. Last Saturday, I found an old compound bow at a local flea market with an incredibly high draw weight (as in I must be too old to draw the danged thing back). I'll get to work on the nose piece this week.

I'm also inspired by you to give a long bow a whirl.

Now, all I've got to do is to be inspired by someone to get back to work on my elliptically-ramped, floating-arm trebuchet. Halfway there . . .

Hey Del, it is a bit inspiring to see some bringing back a very ancient art. Growing up on a ranch and rural towns as a young tot, my dad taught me to make long bows to hunt rabbits and birds (don't ask if I ever got one). I had a nice collection of mostly long bows when I was younger, some were quite old, sad I never kept them over the years. I'm looking forward one day soon to having enough time to actually build one or two again, but I probably wont hunt anymore. Not when the grocery store is no longer hours away. However I've always enjoyed target practicing as it was kind of therapeutic. Dad has attempted hunting Elk with his Compound to no avail yet. (you are probably aware of the power a bow needs to have to bring one of those down. being a good shot is essential as well!) His buddy uses a massive looking cross bow for the hunts, he's been successful however. Keep up the good work, I always like reading what you're up to with this subject and learning a little more about it!

Tim

Cheers, It's nice to re-awaken old interests. Funnily enough it was a thread by DAG on here that got me building bows again, and I'm really enjoying it....very therapeutic in the hectic modern world.
Del
(The bow I make in part 2 next week is a real beauty....)

Nice job Del! Have you ever made a bow for fishing or know were I can get plans to build one?

thanks

Dunno anything about fishing bows specifically....I thought they just used very long arrows, sometimes with detachable harpoon type tips attached to a fine line?

I'd have thought any sort of bow would do?

Del

Del!

Damned handsome work!

And I love the Chinese repeater! Where did you find the design for that beast?

Generally with a loose run reel about mid-point for the fish line, this one tapes onto the bow temporarily, and you hand wind. Fancier are available.

I personally think bird points would be a fun way to go after squirrels - but I don't have the free time to find arrows.

You don't mean Chris (Sqwirrel) do you???

Del

I love the repeater. What kind of range can you get with it?

It will throw one of those short unfletched bolts 150yards (rapidly followed by 11 more)
Del

Del, as much as I respect and admire your proclivity for bows, I much prefer to wile away the winter months with beaus. Keep up the good work!

My Farther use to tell me that there are three types of people in the world...thouse who make things happen...thouse who watch things happen... and those that often wounder what the @&$# happened, you my friend, no doubt fall into the make things happen cat-egory. Could you be persuaded to share the plans on that Chinese masterpiece. I made a re-curve once that performed really well. It was a wood and glass composite. I have since hacked down the limbs and turned it into a compound bow. I have to admit, it's shoots like the dickens. My Kids have set up a target in my basement and have become surprisingly proficient with it. Love the obsession!

There are no 'plans' as such.
If you click on my username there is a link in my profile to the blog I did on the Chinese Repeater which shows it dismantled, and in various positions.
You should be able to work it out from that. Any specific questions drop me a personal message and I'll be glad to help.
A quick mock up of the action in ply wood or cardboard will reveal a lot.
Del

Will do...thanks.

Del,

I wish I had your sirve and ambition. Love the repeater crossbow and I may jus have to find the time to make myself one of those.

Showed the video to some of my friends and they want one too.

Keep up the good stuff and send it in whenever. You are quite inspiring.

I found this link that you might be interested in Del. Its a kind of updated version of the chinese type. Might be a new challenge for you to try out.

Interesting link there Double JB, I might just have to build me one of them. But I think I may use either a steel bow, or perhaps a compound bow arrangement. I'll have to work out a means of putting a standard broadpoint on the quarrel too....

I have sent the plans to my house as I plan on building one myself. If you would like to share any mods you make to it i would gladly accept them. I think I will try first with the old fashioned approach and us wood for the bow.

We have a very flexible hardwood (i think its hardwood) that grows around the house. Its called locust and I have yet to see any of it rot even when its been laying on the ground for years. Bugs seem to have a dislike for it as well.

Just have to figure out how to cure it. I was also thinking of going with the laminated approach as well.

Any thoughts on this Del?

Yeah, locust is a known good bow wood, often these woods are backed with hickory or such like (linen thread, sinew, fibreglass,bamboo...actually bamboo will make a fine bow) to make 'em less likely to break (the back is the side furthest) from the archer. Crossbows can be tricky as a shorter bow can end up taking a lot of stress, basically go for tin and wide. For a crossbow make the bow assymetric eg flat across the top and all the taper at the bottom, this allows for the string being forced up above the stock. Also mount the bow at a slight angle so that, at full draw the bow tips line up flat across the top of the stock, else a lot of energy get wasted by the string polishing the stock!

Del

Good pieces of advice there Del.

I do have a question though. When laminating you wer saying to bac kit with hickory, or such like linen thread.

Could you explaine the linen thread a bit more in detail or perhaps give some illustrations on this?

I was really think veeerry old school here and looking at laminating and wrapping with a jute cord or something of the like, just outside the forestock where the bow would be mounted.

Just pouring over ideas at the moment as it will be sometime before I have any wood ready. By the way, how do you usually go about curing your wood for your bows?

I've seen a pic (in "The Traditional Bowyer's Bible volume 1", which is a great primer in all aspects of bow building...highly recomended) of a bow backed with like a sheet of linen threads...must have taken ages unless they were some how made into a sheet first, the do say tough nylon fabric will do the trick but I'm not sure what adhesive would do it.
In the Blog I backed the bow with glass fibre strands from glass rope that is used for flue to boiler gaskets (it's made of very fine glass treads which are in sort of bundles, which are then twisted into rope (not woven)) glued down with ordinary builders PVA real quick and easy.
I brushed PVA ove the back of the bow the laid a strand (bundle) of the glass which I'd untwisted from the rope, painted more PVA onto it with a brush and then smoothed it down, repeated with a few more of the strands, once the surface was covered I smoothed it down hard with the shaft of a screwdiver which sqeezed out the excess glue which I wiped off. I let it dry on my 'not too hot' radiator.

If the bow is lashed to a piece of timber flexed slightly the 'wrong' way you will get a bit of pre-tension on the glass backing which is a good thing. A send layer id probably good too.
the great advantage of this method is it's quick, cheap relatively easy. If you want to go real traditional use sinew...but trust me...save that for when you are really into it and have want to spend ages and ages....

I'd say any tough fabric preferably applied under tension will help to reduce the chance of breakage.

Seasoning timer? Have a look at this thread in an Archery Site, there's a post from some bloke calling himself Del The Cat.(the posts can be a bit slow coming up as the site isn't as slick as CR4...us guys are spoiled here)
Del

That looks quite slick .
I only had a quick look, I don't think there is any mechanical advantage, so I don't s'pose you could pull much draw weight.
Mine is 50 pounds pull, but the mechanical advantage means it's easy to operate.
I enjoy letting women have a go with it as they generally miss out on playing with fun stuff like this...they usually visualise their ex husbands and take to it with relish. ...of course I have to stand behind & help them to work it to start with.

Del

I think the article says something about 35-50 pound draw weight but it looks like you could easily add the mechanical advantage you are speaking of, possible using a spring assist or even a lever similar to the chinese repeater.

Thanks for the story, Del. Bowmaking is one of those projects I have been saving for retirement (which is not too far away). I have a wintercut ash stave from upstate New York and a wonderfully straight-grained stave of Bois De Arc from here in Alabama. They have been seasoning in my storage room for years.

I appreciate your unwillingness to violate copyright laws, but could you give us at least a few key words to search on to find that article by Hickman? I tried searching "limb taper" and "Hickman", but did not find it.

Thanks,

Bill

It's in my favourites at work I think...I'll dig it out and find some way of pointing to it.
Del

The repeating crossbow is a fascinating invention, but be careful, or it will put you on a no-fly list, or even in Guantanamo. Only psycopaths and policemen play with lethal weapons.

As an American psychopath, sworn to uphold the constitution, including the 2nd amendment, I disagree with your British government policy of a totally defenseless population. God forbid we should again have to manufacture weapons for you, as we did in the Great War and GW, part B, the Hitler bit.

Well, I guess my seven year old daughter won't by flying anywhere anytime soon then.

I took her shooting last weekend for the first time. She can't wait to go again... Here's daddy's little psychopath putting lead on target...

And here are the results...

Ok, not quite IPSC level yet, but hey, this was her first outing and it took her a little while to figure out how to work the iron sights....She'll get better. Before you know it, she'll be giving the old man a run for his money....

I and many other Brits will always be eternally grateful to the USA for helping us out in WW I & II, make no mistake.

But please remember that gun crimes are far more present in your country than in GB....even taking into account the relative differences in the population sizes......that is nothing to be proud of......it is something that a properly civilized country should have fixed many, many years ago......

Also, lest we forget, the Brits and the Commonwealth + France fought in WW I from 1914 to 1918, the USA came in with a blast its true, but only fought from 1917 to 1918 alongside of us.....

In the WW II, Britain and the commonwealth, with some help from France in the beginning at least fought from 1939 to 1945.

The USA kindly declared war in December 1941 after Japan was stupid enough to attack Pearl Harbour, otherwise they might never have joined in! Who knows....really it was not 1941 to 1945, but 1942/3 to 1945.......

The USA was not able to field many men until most of 1942 was gone, they were even more badly prepared than the UK was in 1939 and that is saying something!

In fact the UK and commonwealth fielded more troops in WW II right until late 1944 than the USA, when parity was finally reached.....In 1945, the USA fielded more troops than the UK for the last few 5-6 months of the war in Europe.....but only then....

When you think about the relative sizes of the two countries, I am sure that you will be quite impressed by what the UK and its commonwealth was able to do, with the excellent supplies from the USA of course.

We needed the war supplies desperately (many thanks Mr Roosevelt! a Good friend of the UK) from the USA it is true, but we also had most of the losses of shipping crews trying to get it into the UK.......

If you wish to have more exact facts and figures, I can get them if you wish, but it will take me some time to wade through my books of both World Wars.....

One needs to keep a balance in one's approaches to all things......

With regard to gun crimes, there is an excellent comparison between the USA & Canada with regard to gun crimes by the way at:-

http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/Cda-US.htm

Here is a list showing the number of murders per capita, also showing that the USA is not the most dangerous place to live, but it is far, far more dangerous than the UK. The higher a country is on the list, the worse it is.

Please note that none of the countries that appear before the USA on the list can be described as "Western/Civilized"......so to say.....Neither are any of the countries that come after it for a long time also.....ex comicom countries in the main, Russian Mafia.....

USA Position 8

Switzerland position 19

Canada position 20

Germany position 21

UK position 32 WOW!!!!!! No guns does reduce gun crime rather well........they are simply not needed in a civilized country!

In comparison, here is a list of murder per capita at here.

USA Position 24

UK Position 46

I am not prejudiced against the USA, I have many US friends, but I do like the facts to be fully correct......

Have a great day!!

Andy, you are stacking the deck just a bit. Yes you have fewer gun crimes and fewer murders, but you have more violent crimes per capita than we do. You guys just use knives or baseball bats to do the dirty work which means more people survive the attack.

And in the US, everywhere where guns have been banned, the violent crime rate has gone up, not down. The same is true in the UK and Australia as well.

By the way, guns were still legal to own in the UK in the run-up to WWII. It wasn't until AFTER WWII that your betters decided that they didn't trust the populace with guns in case they decided that the socialists had gone just a bit too far.

You did not do a good job of looking at the links I posted, or you would have noted that what you say with regard to violent crimes is completely untrue.....

......or do you mean that more of our crime victims live to tell the tale than in the USA??? Shows you just how controlled we are in the UK!!!

If you have any accurate links showing your thoughts, please place them here.....

Check the last link out more carefully.....it tells a lot......violent crimes can end in murder, so the murder rate (by any means at all!) shows also the ratios of violent crimes. Its as simple as that!!

Yes we did have guns more easily available before WW II in the UK (we were not alone either), even in my youth it was easier than today (not hard to achieve!), but NEVER so easily available (or so cheap) as in the USA today, still in most states........remember, up to the 1960s, shooting an Afro American was not considered even a "proper" murder......now that was a crime of the first water......

Its sounds as though you have been reading some of the "bent" statistics of the American Gun Lobby (NRA?).....and believeing them first!!! A cardinal failure. Believe me, they "have an Axe to grind!"

"...the Brits and the Commonwealth + France fought in WW I from 1914 to 1918, the USA came in with a blast its true, but only fought from 1917 to 1918 alongside of us....."

Ah, but we were getting rich supplying you in 1915. The Lusitania, sunk in 1915, was carrying 600 tons of explosive, plus many mysterious boxes marked "cheese", plus more than a thousand crates of artillery shells, plus 6 million rounds of rifle ammunition. (I've seen the manifest) Although Wilson promised Lord Grey he'd get us into the war, it might never have happened (he campaigned in 1916 with "he kept us out of the war") if it hadn't been for Paul Warburg of the Federal Reserve (Brother of Max Warburg, of the Reichsbank and "advisor to the Kaiser", head of German spies) who sent out a letter to member banks saying that the allies were losing and British bonds and IOUs were worthless. There was a bank panic, like the present day sub-prime problem. The stock market fell 41 per cent. Ships loaded with war materiel didn't sail for Britian, since British paper was worthless. Unemployment soared. The US declaration of war against Germany was Wilson's "stimulus package" to restore full employment. At first, he didn't want to actually send troops, but it is well he did, as they frightened the Germans with their numbers, if not their fighting prowess. (Gen. Pershing was almost as bad as Gen. Haig) On the Western Front, the war was won in 1918 mostly by the British 4th Army, under Rawlinson, which was made up mostly of the Australian Corps (5 divisions under Lt. Gen. Sir John Monash) with Canadians and Americans on their flanks. The Australians killed about 60,000 Germans for a loss of 5,500 of their own. The Aussies were volunteers from the outback, mostly, and they had grown up with guns. Well, that's probably not relevant.

There is no question that the US murder rate and the prison population are high, relative to Britain. However, since the recent total ban on firearms, except for criminals and police, it seems that violent crime (like armed robbery) has increased notably in Britain. (I'm willing to be corrected, if you can provide the statistics) Of course, that may have nothing to do with there being no right to self-defense. Maybe the increase in crime has to do with the influx of undesireables from the continent. However, in the US, the issuing of concealed carry (of pistols) permits has coincided, in every case, with a decrease in armed crime. A rapist, for example, is hesitant to enter a house that has a "Protected by Smith and Wesson" sticker on the door. The new "castle" laws (your home is your castle) which allow a home owner to shoot first and ask questions later if someone breaks in, have also had a good effect in reducing home invasions. As they say, when you need help in seconds, the police will be there in minutes. If you were in the US and used your Chinese repeater to deter (or perforate) someone who assaulted you, the police would give you an attaboy. In Britain, they would arrest you. Sociologically speaking, it's an interesting divergence in values.

Actually, I supplied links to statistics that showed the opposite to your thoughts, but funnily enough, nobody else has been able to supply links or infos to support their "thoughts" on violent crimes.

I had a good look around, all the statistics are either JUST for the USA or for USA Cities for the USA and Canada. Nothing comparing the UK & the USA......

So until someone can supply such links, your "thoughts" are exactly that, "thoughts" only.......

Sorry, that carries very little weight......like none!

Please bring facts.....

Byeeeeeeee.......

Switzerland has a lower murder rate than the United Kingdom, and every household in Switzerland has a firearm (often fully automatic) and ammunition.

Yes, the major difference being that everyone has to serve at some point in the army and also learns how to use and NOT use such weapons. Most civilians are reservists or have been reservists. Professionals.

The major part of US citizens are anti army and have never had formal Army training. It makes a serious difference!!!

The USA could follow suit maybe???

Personally I think it would be a great idea to require all citizens of the US to perform some sort of civil service (be it military, paramilitary, or even social service), and I think ALL americans should receive in depth fire arms training in school because it is such a strongly held RIGHT of the American people.

A couple reasons for this, first off, I'm scared of my government... I don't think they're out to get me, I just think that they are idiots who think they know what's best for me and I cherish my right to possess the means to shoot them down in my yard when they try to enforce some idiocy on me (e.g. 'Now you vill vhere this yellow star of david so ve can see you better')... hasn't happened here in a long time because so many of us are armed to the teeth... at least that's my opinion..

secondly, I've met my neighbors and I don't trust them to water the lawn without killing someone... this is not another case of idiocy, just ignorance... We all know what the cure for ignorance is, education... If more people would get some education about the dangerous things around them rather then closing there eyes, plugging their ears and prancing around the room screaming 'LALALALALALA' fewer people would die as a result of ignorant behavior whether you're looking at firearms or farm equipment

GA I like that.....

"Personally I think it would be a great idea to require all citizens of the US to perform some sort of civil service (be it military, paramilitary, or even social service),..."

I disagree. We don't allow slavery, and if labor is "required", it's slavery.

"... and I think ALL americans should receive in depth fire arms training in school because it is such a strongly held RIGHT of the American people."

I agree. Like first aid and map reading and driving instruction and a lot of other things, knowing how to safely handle and use fire arms is one of those skills useful for safe, civilized living. It used to be that schools had firing ranges and fire arms training was a matter of national security. Since all adult males were members of the militia (federal law since approximatley 1789), all males (and why not females, too?) should be educated about firearms (a "well regulated", meaning trained, militia). And the drafters of the bill of rights were very explicit that the right to bear arms was for self-defense, especailly defense against a tyrannous government. The idiot "educators" now permit only air rifles for children and no longer train with military surplus rifles. The Swiss are smarter. In Britain, archery practice was required by law, since skilled archers might be needed for national defense, but things have changed.

My thoughts on civil service are limited in scope, I only feel it would be appropriate to require a short (1-2 year) obligation for which time the poor 'slave' will be paid. Unfortunately we live in such splendid luxury that many people consider it an insufferable hardship to live without a cell phone and a porsche, exposure to true suffering and want would do our society a world of good, and it is to this end that I feel mandatory civil service would be beneficial... however, I do still stand by your right to stock-pile munitions against the day I come to try and force you to be a better person...

Are you planning to make specialized arrowheads? Like against armour, chainmail, silk, or managers?

Del,
I enjoy reading about your bow exploits and have a question. If you have seen the History channel's "Extreme Marksmen" you will have seen the Hill Archery longbows in action. Hill claims the secret of their bows lies in the use of bamboo as the main ingredient. Is bamboo as good as they say, and other than tensile strength, what other properties are required for a good bow material?

Yeah, bamboo is good stuff.
A bow needs a material which is good in tension on the back and good in compression on the belly. Glass fibre is good in both, I think bamboo is too. Some woods are better in compression than tension so they are backed with hickory, bamboo etc.(which are good in tension)

Yew is brilliant stuff as the heart wood is good in compression and the sap wood good in tension, so if you cut the bow out of the tree correctly you get a great bow.

The limitation of bamboo is it's thin walled curved shape, so it needs cutting into strips and laminating, although I've seen pics of effective bows made simply by binding garden canes of differing lengths together to form a bundle wihich is fatter in the centre!

A chap at my club bought in a bow cat from a Holly sappling, no shaping at all, he just cut off the braches and put a string on it...it shot and he could hit the target...I think it made about 80yards distance!

In terms of timber, the properties you want are straightish grain, no twists, few knots, durability and availability!!

Most wood will make a bow of sorts (flat rectangular section limbs are least stressed|), I've read about a guy who made one of Ivy just to see how it turned out (a bit sluggish and rubbery). Not so many woods will make the classic English Longbow (deep 'D' shaped, flat on the back) profile, as it is actually an inefficent highly stressed design.

See bow#2 next week...nice flat section bow from a 3 1/2" Dia log picked up off the woodland floor.

Del

I wonder if the english longbow were used on the mongols? and if not would it have made a difference? I saw that mongol wore silk undergarments that helped them against bow impacts, i wonder if the longbow higher speed would negate that ability

Those Asiatic recurved composite bows outperform the longbow .
It was only in Western Europe where the Longbow was dominant...
dunno why the Asiatic never made it that far...maybe it was the relative difficulty of manufacture...also they tended to be use from horseback.

Del

Click the wikipedia link then you know why they never came "that far"

it is interesting that the mongols allready used a kind of blitzkrieg only it was reversed, The knights were the tanks and the Mongols were the A-10 with their Avenger cannons(bows)

I'd chalk up the mongol victories -tactically- to stunning discipline and communications - the opposite of melee combat.

We will have to wonder

The mongol invasion stopped around what was Poland, as the son in charge had to go home for the father's funeral.

Otherwise chopsticks in London. (yes, I know - just an expression)

That was not the only time the mongols attacked "europe"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Europe

OK Del, it's time to move on to another subject, this is getting old and cluttering up my mailbox! thanks for stopping the drama.

a concerned CR4 member

That was actually the one I was referring to

The later attack against Thrace was just the latest of invasions Constantinople held off for the West.

They held off the Huns, the Turks, and the Mongols before Europe had to stand up to these forces.

Little taught in the US, don't know if they teach this stuff to Europeans - I just read a lot.

On the "Scrapheap Challenge" yesterday on More4 UK TV they had to build a way to shoot bolts into a target, one built a huge crossbow, engine driven.......fully automatic....was a good program....owed a little to your Chinese automatic crossbow, but was HUGE!!!