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Can We Travel in Time?

Posted August 19, 2011 9:24 AM

Recent experimental evidence suggests that the aggregate universal speed limit — the speed of light in a vacuum — also applies to individual photons. Previously, many physicists believed that individual photons could exceed that speed. If that were true, then an effect could theoretically precede its cause, opening the door to the possibility of time travel. But if even individual photons are constrained, that door is now closed. What do you think? Is time travel possible? For particles? For people? If you could travel in time, where would you go, and why? What kinds of limitations would you expect?

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#1

Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/19/2011 12:24 PM

Yes, wait...

We are traveling in time.

We have no problem going forward and we have proved that ad infinitum. We can also vary the rate by which we move forward based on gravity and velocity experiments.

Going backward seems to be a problem; at least until you become senile. Then, it is said, you go backward quite readily.

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#7
In reply to #1

Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/21/2011 8:32 AM

I would say, "We travel with time" rather than, "We travel in time".

The future must be undefined unless we throw away the book of quantum mechanics and return to determinism.

If we return to determinism, our radios, televisions, computers, etc. would cease to exist, to never have been.

If our radios, televisions, computers, etc. ceased to exist, could we still build a time machine?

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#8
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Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/21/2011 11:17 AM

Would we still have lemonade under the front porch? Maybe it wouldn't matter, then.

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#9
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Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/21/2011 2:35 PM

Modify part of, "The Old Vicarage, Grantchester, by Rupert Brooke

Stands the Church clock at ten to three?
And is there honey still for tea?

To; And will there be honey still for tea?

Another one;

I always fear that creation will expire before teatime. ~Sydney Smith

These come from here So much about the pleasures of drinking tea.

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#11
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Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/22/2011 7:44 AM

<...We are traveling in time....>

- and at the speed of light.

<...proved that ad infinitum...>

Er, not quite. Proved it up until whenever and wherever the observer is in 4-dimensional spacetime.

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#2

Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/20/2011 11:17 AM

Here's one place I'd consider going:

The Third Level

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#12
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Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/22/2011 5:28 PM

The story seems suspicious, doesn't it? "The Time Machine," by H.G. Wells was published in 1895. The author of this "story" was most likely inspired by reading it and set the story 1 year before the publication of the novel.

Time travel has no relevance to us unless it can transport one's consciousness. In fact, this is the only practical means of doing this. It is possible. In most instances, it is more common (very relatively speaking) for people to "visit" the future rather than the past. But to what purpose? Since it is done individually, within oneself, and since very few pursue such things, you'd be labeled a quack or insane if you tried to tell anyone. Much like in the movie, "Contact." The only way to "prove" it to others would be to convince them to try the same method you used to "go there." And because of the variables involved with consciousness, one actually wouldn't expect the same result from one person to the next.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/22/2011 6:33 PM

That was more ON TOPIC than any.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8iFholCpKo

Rough as guts but still ahead

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/24/2011 7:05 PM

Ah-h-h-h-h... Hendrix. Good memories, ky. For some reason I put the Doors in the same room with Jimi. (pun noted after the fact.)

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#15
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Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/24/2011 7:10 PM

Addendum: One of my all time favorites is "Wind Cries Mary."

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#16
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Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/24/2011 7:31 PM

Yeah, great lyrics.

This guy had possession of something before, after and during his time. Traveling in time has nothing to do with a physical journey. Playing it out in the art of music counts in all cultures. Not only Jimi but all the other greats that can make time disappear, at least for a while.

I mostly listen to classical music nowadays. I don't appreciate the collection of sounds which they call music nowadays. It reminds me of CAD drawings and not having a clue how to get the real thing up and running.

Just my sensitivity to crap.

Have one on me, Ky.

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#17
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Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/25/2011 12:02 PM

Classical... yes. Music is very hard for me right now due to personal tragedy, but yesterday as I was driving back to work from lunch I heard 20 minutes of music that I was sure was Beethoven. I even parked, and sat in the car, waiting for the end in hopes the announcer would identify it. The music ran a little into the next hour of the broadcast and as the announcer was identifying the piece a much louder voice came on and gave a station ID and a weather report. I had to call the station to find out. It was Beethoven's 7th symphony. Really grabbed me for some reason. Maybe because of my own inner state. That symphony is all over the place emotionally.

And, yes, I, too, find most of today's music an anathema to my ears and heart. There is even music I liked as a teenager that really doesn't appeal to me anymore. But some still does. I don't know if you've ever listened to Rare Bird, but one song in particular is still appealing to me because of the amazing keyboard work. That is "As Your Mind Flies By." It used to be hard to find. I ordered it as an import when I got it about 20 years ago. The album (which looks to only sill be available as an import) it is off of is the same name. Maybe their best effort.

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#18
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Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/25/2011 4:10 PM

We can travel in time, with the assistance of the greats. Not only music can be a solace but reading or the mechanics of bees knees. We can compensate for our personal tragedies by indulging in the arts, any one of them.

What Beethoven is for some it is the pan flute for others. It all comes from the same source and flows through us only to be detected as we listen. The ears are only a tool, the heart is the machine and soul is the language.

I'm hitting the highway soon. Me missus and I have the same taste for 'driving music'. I hope you are sitting down. Yep, it is Micheal Jackson's Thriller, a master piece. After all those years, still invigorating.

You will find nourishment and comfort in music. It can take you were no friend can follow and doesn't ask stupid questions. The best thing is it comes at no cost and if you are a musician your self, well, all this was preaching to the choir.

Better leave you to it.

Have one on me, Ky.

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#19
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Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/25/2011 4:12 PM

I do remember the album well.

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#3

Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/20/2011 12:47 PM

Not long ago there was a time machine for sale on ebay that was manufactured (will have been manufactured? was to have been manufactured?) in the year 2239. It must be real, it has a plate with an inscription that says "Time Machine" on it.

I see the ebay listing is no longer valid; some must have bought it... was going to have bought it... will have bought it... I don't know, it's gone now.

And now, twenty seconds later, it is still gone.

(This originally offered by Nighthawk on 17 March 2005)

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Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/20/2011 1:11 PM

Count your blessings! I heard that it is a real load of crap and all it does is attract a lot of time flies. It's a faulty model and will soon be discontinued last year.

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Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/22/2011 6:01 AM

ebay? How times have changed for KrisDelTM.

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#5

Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/20/2011 4:06 PM

Some possible time travel fantasies:

1. Go back to Archimedes's time, and add just a few things so that he could create integral calculus nearly 1800 years before Newton and Leibniz.

2. Go back to the times of Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, Joseph Smith, et. al., and actually document the origins of those religious movements.

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Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/20/2011 4:59 PM

The Twain was never meant to meet.

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#20

Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/26/2011 12:11 PM

Last year I read a great book on this subject: "the Arrow of Time", by Peter Coveney and Roger Highfield. They propose that time is a vector moving only in one direction, and that the past is immutable. They make arguments by reviewing major scientific and historical events to "prove" that time is real (some scientists/mathematicians still doubt that), and that it is undirectional.

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#21

No.

08/26/2011 10:02 PM

Not if the research I've studied is correct.

This research finds that time is an illusion that the whole physical universe has agreed to. Exit the physical universe and the illusion becomes obvious.

According to this theory, the illusion of time is created by setting up an automatic system that constantly re-creates all that we perceive. Where life organizes matter and energy, a coherent record of past events can be produced. But they are only records. Thus, you can locate such a record, or even destroy it, and in a sense "travel into the past and change it" but it is really only a very convincing recording of the past that you are changing.

There are persistent reports from the paranormal community that we have been visited by "beings from the future." Per this theory that could not really happen. The "future" has yet to be created. My answer for what is really happening in these reports has to do with the fact that new events tend to pattern themselves on prior events that exist as recordings. Thus if one has sufficient data about the past one can make a quite good prediction of what is likely to be created, even thousands of years ahead of time. So someone with this technology could convince us that they were from the future because they would be able to "predict it" with pretty good accuracy.

What you are really doing when you "change the past" is to change the pattern on which the future tends to be built. Therefore, in a way that seems almost mechanical, the future can be "changed" by changing our records of the past, or possibly just our understanding of them.

So far this theory has only been tested and used on a relatively small scale. But it is the one that makes the most sense to me.

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#22
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Re: No.

08/27/2011 9:29 PM

The situation you are talking about is known in the world of physics as "The Problem with Time".

One proposal is that time simply does not exist. I'll talk more about this later. Actually, that is a cop out and gets me totally off the hook if time does not really exist! Later, ha!

In every branch of physics, Newtonian, Einstein, quantum, etc., take any equation you would like, you will find that those equations work just as well with time moving forward as they do with time reversing and going backward. There are no laws of physics preventing time from running backward.

So, why is the transmission of time seemingly stuck only in "Drive" and not able to be engaged in "Reverse"? Do we need a Quantum Mechanic to service our transmissions?

The concept of the absence of time is consistent with the Wheeler-DeWitt equation. Time is bounded within the/our Universe, but does not or is not an absolute entity. We can't measure time. Clocks do not measure time. Time is merely defined by the tics and tocs of our clocks; be them grand-farther, atomic, digital wrist watches, or in some cases, Cuckoo clocks.

Time is simply not observable and therefore not measurable.

Time may not exist at all except in the macro world. It may just be the stuff of perception in our minds and meaningless outside of that. That would seem to say that time travel is not possible; that is, if it does not really exist...

Yet, time travel is alive and ticking in the universe of fiction. There countless books on the subject where you can travel to any place imaginable or even unimaginable.

If you can't find a read that you like you are certainly open to write your own and travel anywhere you might fancy to go.

If time is simply our own illusion, then time travel is clearly possible and as unbounded as the infinity of our imaginations. How do you like that?

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#23
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Re: No.

08/27/2011 9:42 PM

Do you have any references for this that have received qualified critical review?

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#24

Re: Can We Travel in Time?

08/31/2011 3:30 PM

You wrote, "Recent experimental evidence suggests that the aggregate universal speed limit - the speed of light in a vacuum - also applies to individual photons. Previously, many physicists believed that individual photons could exceed that speed."

I would like a link to that claim.

I recently read where there is evidence of differing speeds for different energy photons, although the difference was very small.

If memory serves, the difference was detected by comparing photons from very, very distant galaxies where the time traveled was very long, thus amplifying the difference in arrival time. I do not know the specifics of that experiment and how they came to that conclusion.

Your citation would seem to counter that claim.

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