UFOs, are they real

Glad you agree Doc.

Here, Here.

Shhhhhhhh. That's the sound of applause. Get up him europium.

"It is oh so hard to speak of faith with and unarmed man."

Probably much like trying to talk reason and logic to a person of faith...

"Maybe it's time to humble ourselves..."

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Would you give us a demo? We're all just a bunch of lost sheep here.

Which wall? I have never read any account of Jeses "walking through walls".

The tomb was empty and open when Mary returned to it on the day after the Sabbath, with an angel sat inside (John 20:1). He is reported to have appeared to the disciples in the upper room - appeared, not walked through the wall.

There are passages which say he ate and allowed the disciples to touch him, and others where he told them not to as he had "not returned to [his] father" - which is true? And if both are, why did he lie to one group?

Describing things with faith is not describing them in a physical sense.

I have never read any account of Jeses "walking through walls".

The 'Hole in the Wall' gang may have gone through a holy someplace. The hole was an integral part of the wall , as the two things could not be separated. I don't exactly walk through my front door everyday - the letterbox possibly , but not the door.

The 'Hole in the Wall' gang may have gone through a holy someplace. The hole was an integral part of the wall , as the two things could not be separated. I don't exactly walk through my front door everyday - the letterbox possibly , but not the door.

Yours is quite possibly the dumbest re-interpretation of an otherwise obvious and accepted meaning that I've ever heard. You are to be commended.

Thank you , though I think my parody of the apparent Jesus to James Brother conversion was fairly artful too.

No , there's no need. I shake my own hand .Routinely. Frequently in fact.

Hi photonicgirl,

What technology? There's no way we can know unless one of the critters (maybe I shouldn't call them that, they might get mad) is careless enough to allow us to catch it. Then, we could ask it (here, we must assume with their vast intelligence, they can understand our language) that question. "Do you eat food? Do you cook it with microwave energy? You're not going to eat us are you? I know, you're here for our water aren't you? How do you manipulate gravity? That's a question that has perplexed us for a long, long time my friendly alien. Uh, you are friendly aren't you? Stop! No! Don't do that! Helppppppppppppppp....!"

"If you are in the know, please by all means, do tell."

Somehow I think Del may know more than he's letting on. Del, please remove your cloaking device, we need to interogate you. Quick, while he's not looking, get O.R. 8 ready. Get the syringe and don't forget to call Igor!

Cheers,

There Techonlogy is not of this world, and the thangs that they do we well never know of...........

Heck, there are things our Government does we'll never know of. I don't even know what my neighbor does, except that whatever it is, he stops doing it when I bang on the wall - or play Rob Zombie at 130 dB with the sub turned all the way up.

Not to mention that sometimes, I don't even know what the hell I'm doing...

Don't mind me, E, Just took your ball to the next park

You've definitely got a point there. Late yesterday as I was driving back from Houston I stopped off at a truck stop to get some much-needed coffee. Do they have those exasperating little single-serving coffee creamers in Israel? Well, as I peeled the foil off each one, I poured it into the trash can and not my coffee cup. Yes, sometimes I don't know what the hell I'm doing.

Once, when I was a child, at dinner, I took the cherry syrup and started pouring it on the rice plate, barely two inches from my cup.

In mid-air, my mother stopped me from doing that, looked me in the eyes, and said: "Who are you?"

I felt like planting myself six feet under.

Your mother was in mid-air? How'd she get there?

This thread is about UFOs, after all.

Yes, it's okay to kick me. But only once.

Got there by magic. By my Yuval-English. My hand was stopped in mid-air, half-way pouring the darn thing onto rice.

I was once lured to taste Russian Candy-Fish. Don't ask.

To clarify: A candy, sweet red candy, made of fish, on a stick.

Yuvlish? Yes, I know what you meant. I was just being my usual insomnaical artsmass self.

Russian Candy-Fish? Lured? I hate to be kept in suspense, you know. Do tell.

A very conflicting taste. It's rude to spit out because it's in front the offering party, and you can't swallow because it's so nasty.

I started daydreaming once. I was taking time off from walking around the factory to rest my weary feet. My mind started wandering off and I didn't hear my friend asking me something. He asked several times but I had that blank look on my face.

Finally, he said, "Earth calling Enterprise, Earth calling Enterprise, come in Enterprise". That brought me crashing back to Earth faster than Einstein's relativity.

"Man, you were way out in space there!", he said.

"Yeah, it took a couple of minutes for your message to reach me!", I sourly answered.

As to if we are alone or not: if alone what a lot of wasted space we may use after alot of time; If not we don't have much to offer to someone advanced enough to defy Neutonian physics. What I have seen, with the neihborhood also watching, when I was about 9 years old, made two F4 Phantoms intercepting them from McChord AF base as advanced as my Stingray bicycle chasing F4s.

As to how? Pick one, then x³, then /0. All joking aside, if you find out let me know, I would like to go for a ride.

Well Jules; OK I'll kiss and tell. First off, don't go there! You may find the answer is the last thing you ever learn. However, "they" do not use anything. "They" just refocus on what is allways there. i.e. gravity. You do it also everyday but you just don't look at it from the correct perspective. Example: Drop a penny. It didn't just float did it? Refocus that energy and mathmatically make it go up! That's all I am allowed to say. Ashman. P.S. Please compute the following..... What is the probability that our moon exists and only ever shows it's one side while orbiting our planet with-out changing over Billions of years? It is 0. I will see you on the dark side of the moon. P.F.

What is the probability that our moon exists and only ever shows it's one side while orbiting our planet with-out changing over Billions of years? It is 0.

Nope, Ash.. I think if you look up you'll see it's 1 !

You took your time getting here, your spaceship must need an overhaul (or may...be an underhaul?)...

You are right about using gravity...every time we throw or catch a ball or slid down the banister, we allow for it...we just need to use it better!

(You havn't slid down the banister lately?!!...Shame on you go do it NOW all of you!)

Hi Del; I get your point about '1'. As it does happen therefore it is 1. Perhaps I should refrase, What is the natural likelyhood of that happening. I say 0. Is that better. Or; I would go on to say that without an outside intelectual influance it would be 0. Think?? ash

PS: Del; are you getting flooded over there? All well?

Hi,

Yeh, I was only sort of teasing....

I'm still dry ta'... My pond is pretty darned full...I'm worried that my frogs will be getting too wet (I fondly think of them as my subjects....they argue with me less than the other occupants of this place!)

Back to the moon thing.... If it had a rotation of any specific period, one could say 'Wow what are the chances of that?' If one views one's surroundings with the appreciation of an artist it would be easy to ascribe the intricate beauty of many simple things to an outside force.

What are the chances of every raindrop being a perfect shiny sphere? Zero!?

Maybe the moon's close proximity to earth and the gravitational pull as it was being formed meant that we ended up in sync' ?

Maybe the water sloshing about on Earth is dragging on the moon. We might slow down , or even stop.

The Moon (and the Earth) experience so-called "land tides." Both the Moon and the Earth deform slightly under the gravitational influence of the other. Both elongate slightly on the axis connecting their centers of mass. As the Moon orbits the Earth, the axis of deformation moves with it. It takes a lot of energy to continually deform a planet, with the result that the spin of both bodies gradually slows.

At one time the Moon's rate of spin was much higher than it is today. The fact that the Moon's rotational period is the same as its orbital period is no accident. Earlier in the Moon's history, the rotational period approached the orbital period, and the deformation moved more and more slowly - and required less and less energy - until at last the deformation became stationary in the Moon's frame of reference. At this point both periods were identical, and the energy lost due to the moving deformation ceased. The drag on the Moon's spin stopped and its spin, consequently, became relatively constant with the result that one face is always turned toward Earth. This current - and stable - state of affairs is called Gravitational Resonance.

The same mechanism is responsible for Io's volcanoes. As Io's orbital period is much shorter and it's master (Jupiter) so massive, Io's deformation is both larger in extent and is moving very quickly. The energy dissipated by the moving deformation is slowing Io at a high rate whilst heating the little moon to a largely molten state, making it highly volcanic.

If our own Moon were in Io's position it would probably be entirely molten too, except for a thin crust, and would likewise be volcanic. Like our own Moon, Io will eventually achieve gravitational resonance, with one side always facing Jupiter. The little moon will cool and the volcanism will cease.

Now that's what CR4 is for!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Don't mind me.

Just making an observation here:

Every once-in-a-while, be prepared for europium to come out of his shell and bomb us with one of these.

You have been warned.

Thanks, for taking the trouble to explian what I ... sortofthaughtIprobablyknewbutwasntsureofsoIwaffledabit.

My posts tend to be srather short 'cos I only have a small monitor (or that's what the wife tells me)

Del

Del writes: "My posts tend to be srather short 'cos I only have a small monitor (or that's what the wife tells me)"

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He is kinda short.

Very informative , and elegantly stated. The Earth is oblate (though slightly pear-shaped) . Does your answer suggest that this is due to the moons proximity rather than the Earths rotation ?

On the post you answer , the moon influences the tides (perhaps we can ignore the Sun for this issue) , but does the tide drag on the moon ? If (as a thought type experiment) there was suddenly no water on Earth , would there be any effect on the Moon ? Water is viscous , and gravitation is approximated to attraction between 2 points.

"The Earth is oblate (though slightly pear-shaped) . Does your answer suggest that this is due to the moons proximity rather than the Earths rotation ?"

No. A fluid with the Earth's density distribution, rotating once every day, would have a flattening of almost exactly the observed flattening of 1:298.25.

"On the post you answer , the moon influences the tides (perhaps we can ignore the Sun for this issue) , but does the tide drag on the moon ?"

On my post I referred to so-called "land tides," also known as tidal bulge. This is not the same thing as ocean tides, which are the most visible effect due to the Moon's gravitational pull. The mass of the oceans contribute their part to the system, yes, but the far greater effect is due to the much, much higher net mass of Earth's tidal bulge. The contribution from the oceans is, in a manner of speaking, a drop in a bucket.

Nor does the tidal bulge drag on the Moon. Rather the Earth's tidal bulge is imparting energy to the Moon's orbit with the effect that the Moon is getting farther away!

The Moon's orbit is getting larger at a rate of about 3.8 centimeters per year. (The Moon's orbit has a radius of 384,000 km.) The reason for the increase is that the Moon raises the land tides on the Earth that I mentioned earlier. Because the side of the Earth that faces the Moon is closer, it feels a stronger pull of gravity than the center of the Earth. Similarly, the part of the Earth facing away from the Moon feels less gravity than the center of the Earth. This effect stretches the Earth a bit, making it a little bit oblong (not to be confused with Earth's oblate shape, or figure, due to Earth's own spin). The actual solid body of the Earth is distorted a few centimeters, but the most noticeable effect is the tides raised on the ocean.

Now, all mass exerts a gravitational force, and the tidal bulges on the Earth exert a gravitational pull on the Moon. Because the Earth rotates faster (once every 24 hours) than the Moon orbits (once every 27.3 days) the Earth's bulge tries to "speed up" the Moon, pulling it ahead in its orbit. The Moon is also pulling back on the tidal bulge of the Earth, slowing the Earth's rotation. Tidal friction (again, not ocean tides), caused by the movement of the tidal bulge around the Earth, takes energy from the Earth's spin and puts it into the Moon's orbit, making the Moon's orbit bigger (but, a bit paradoxically, the Moon actually moves slower. An object orbiting the Earth just above the atmosphere, a low-energy orbit, takes about 90 minutes to go around the Earth once).

The Earth's rotation is slowing down because of this. One hundred years from now, the day will be 2 milliseconds longer than it is now.

This same process took place billions of years ago - but the Moon was slowed down by the land tides raised on it by the Earth. That's why, as I mentioned in my previous post, the Moon always keeps the same face pointed toward the Earth. Because the Earth is so much larger than the Moon, this process took place very quickly, in a few tens of millions of years.

Thank you again Mr Europium for another highly informative posting. While looking at on-line resource concerning this topic , I came upon an article which may be of interest. It is a few years old , but claims a link between the Earths 'oblateness' and climate change. I have not heard of this phenomena before which is strange given current general interest/dispute over climate. Do you have any knowledge of the reported connection , or opinion as to it's merit ?

Changes in Earth's shape would certainly cause a redistribution of water over the Earth's surface. This, in turn, would have an influence on Earth's climate.

Traditional models of the Earth's interior typically show the interior as a simple series of concentric shells, but the reality is quite different. Earth's interior is largely molten, to be sure, but it is hardly uniform on a large scale both in structure and in density distribution. Parts of the interior are more fluid than other parts, and the distribution of these different regions is in a constant (albeit slow) state of flux.

It comes as no surprise, then, that changes in the Earth's shape and distribution of mass occur. However, I seriously doubt that the minute changes in gravity affect the climate directly, but rather through the redistribution of water on the Earth's surface.

Another major factor directly influencing the Earth's climate is the Sun's output. It fluctuates, as well, following the 11-year Sunspot Cycle; together with longer-term and shorter-term variations. To exclude any of these factors in a detailed climate model would render the model largely inaccurate, IMO.

So, yes, I concur with the article. I do believe the changes in oblateness are a precursor and a determining factor in the redistribution of water (it sort of naturally follows), and such redistribution certainly could cause a climate change. The periodicity of this change is somewhat questionable, however, until more data are acquired over a longer period of time.

Curiously, the observed periodicity has a duration approximately twice that of the Sunspot Cycle. This may be just a coincidence - or maybe not.

I would urge you to join this forum, Mr. Guest. You ask intelligent, informed questions - a trait which is always welcome here.

-e

I shall join to CR4 in the near future when I have a bit more time free to participate. Your superbly written posts are in themself a good enough reason to do so.

Best wishes and thanks.

TDK

Thanks.

Being a member has several advantages, even if you seldom post. One of them is that you will be notified by email of posts to threads that interest you. Another is that you can go back and edit your posts (provided you do so within the first 15 minutes from the time you originally submit the post). I nearly always need to do this, as I usually spot some faux pas in my posts only after I submit them. It's probably a Good Thing that the time limit is only 15 minutes; else I'd never finish editing mine.

Yet another advantage is that members and guests can send you messages privately.

Some food for thought. Hope to see you soon!

Hi Del,

I know you've been teasing the mortals with little tidbits of our propulsion knowledge. Just be careful though. I'm not so sure they can digest very much of it. They continue to use elevated temperatures (burning things) to create their energy. They have yet to stumble upon the cold element which we empowered 2 goons (7000 earth years) ago. Their feeble atempts at "cold fusion" reallly got them nowhere but at least it was a start. Yeah, they've got aways to go. Once they discover the "penguin particle" they'll really take off. Oops! Did I say to much?

"What are the chances of every raindrop being a perfect shiny sphere? Zero!?"

Here's a question for you: If Theia impacted earth, as the current dominant theory suggests, and created a ring of debris which then eventually coalesced into our moon what made it come out so (almost) perfectly spherical?

If the debris were goo, or some sort of molten material, if would make sense (to the earthlings anyway) that it would approach some sort of roundness, that is, if the gooey debris had been imparted with some rotation. But, if the junk were of the nature of random rock particles, such as asteroids, etc. what made it come out so round and pretty (relative term, I know)?

-John

..........the 'random' particles were not all the same mass ? A kind of big-fish eat little-fish type thing perhaps. Sorry to interrupt , I'm just hear to stir the pot (so to speak).

"Laughter is the foreplay to orgasm..."

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Do I take it you've never met a redneck?

Redneck foreplay (courtesy Jeff Foxworthy): "You awake?!?"

Now that's funny!

errrr , dunno !

Will they be using Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft?

That's a Carpenters tune, isn't it, Rose?

Yup - released in 1976 to celebrate World Contact Day in 1953 (time travel too!)

Hey Photonicgirl; You know what?....So just for a moment everybody says there are ALFs. We have been here millions of years and we can't even understand a cat when it makes a noise. What kind of pompus idiots are we to think that if there was someone there we are just not to them a meowing cat. Wouldn't it be rather embarasing when they show up they could only speak cat? lol

That's the Bastet message yet!

Miowwww.

We could further refine the question(s) to say, Do you believe in aliens? What constitutes an alien? What does an alien look like? Are you an alien? Raise your flipper and wiggle your tentacles if you are from Planet X.

Or just refine the question(s) to say, How many people think UFOs exist, and if they exist, are they from another planet? Are they manmade and created of technology that surpasses our current popular understanding? Have you ever seen one? What is your guestimate about the technology behind these possibly manmade flying objects?

It's all within the realm of our blogging potential.

Believe in aliens?......Yes I do, we have enough of them here thank-you very much!

I have never seen an alien spacecraft. I have seen lights in the sky. I have heard other's accounts of mysterious nighttime objects but there is always one problem. If the 'beings' are of incredible intelligence, and/or have mastered natural laws, why do they bother to put lights on their ships? Seems silly to me.

"What constitutes an alien?"

Well, let me guess: Carbon + Hydrogen + Oxygen + Nitrogen?

Girl,

This just took off.

Now try a similar thread about free-energy machine (or for that matter, any type of Perpetum Mobile') or better yet, about the constituents of time, and see what this site is really capable of...

Running the two in parallel, may yield some surprising inter-thread result of bringing up the place of God in science, and the "real" age of the universe.

And you called me morpheus...

Ah, Yuval, you have hit upon a kernal of truth. Perhaps the real Morpheus is an ephemeral shimmering being who lives within all of us....

Please do take this thread and run with it. Let's talk about free energy, defining the time/space continuem, and opening a little hole in the veil that separates us from them. You have exposed where I'm going with this thread.

Your turn.

Jules

Ah... But if I guess what's-what, I'll have to conclude that this is nothing more than an exposure-expedition on you part.

I can spare you the tedious effort and count the expected deviants at a much more concise pace.

After all time is money, and space is the medium between objects or is it?

Right?

There's more than exposure-expedition going on here, because I'm very curious to hear what engineers think of the technology that might be required to "run" UFOs.

Who knows, there could even be a new invention floating around CR-4 that explains how to move things like the enormous pyramid blocks and Stonehenge rocks. That theory might lead to the discussion of what technology creates crop circles. And on and on.

Look at it this way, wouldn't it be cool to fly your own saucer without having to buy gas? At these prices, inquiring minds *really* want to know

It would be no-less fantastic to travel back and forth in time.

Occam:

Would you personally invest funds, real funds, in such research?

That depends on how you define "research." I think free energy technology is within our reach. As usual, your question is right on the mark, because funding is always the biggest issue.

Jules

"...I think free energy technology is within our reach..."

That depends on how you define "energy"...

And the second law of thermodynamics

Only if I could go back in time and invest in Apple, Microsoft, IBM, etc., first. Oh yes, and every Lottery, horse race, and football game ever played. And I wouldn't bet on Dewey this time around.

Right...

Only I would prefer cash, as those may yet fall again, as they did in the past... Waitaminute here, strike that, I forgot I can travel back and forth

All you need is ;

Stonehenge : People with levers and rope.

Crop circles : people with planks of wood and rope.

Stonehenge: people with pebbles and stones. And ropes, for safety.

Crop circles: Photoshop.

There is no mystery to those three Stonehenge, pyramids, crop circles...the answers are manpower for 1&2 and a plank on a rope for 3.....

I do still wonder that the pyramids, especially, are a bit mysterious. Imagine how much food and water would be required to maintain the manpower to build them. When you look at everything from a logistics perspective, a relatively simple building project becomes more complicated.

In a simplistic manner, free energy could be defined as renewable energy that is available for harvesting by purely renewable, mechanical means, not requiring combustion or other outside sources. For example, the wind in the sail of a boat is free energy. I think harvesting the jet stream, if it pans out, could provide a form of free or renewable energy.

Using the laws of physics that we are not currently aware exist to move large objects could be utilizing free energy. Hence, my interest in UFOs and how they could fly without the use of combustion engines. What if they could move purely by electrical means, harvesting the Earth's EMF pulses as "free energy"?

There are patents issued to counter EMF, seems like someone could create a device that harvests available electricity from the atmosphere.

Could be a brilliant engineer with a few ideas could launch a flying saucer.

My patent agent is standing by, ready to receive :)

Hi photonicgirl,

Earlier you said "Look at it this way, wouldn't it be cool to fly your own saucer without having to buy gas?"

Personally, I think it would be terrific. However, in the realm of "saucers" and whatever technology might be involved, I believe "renewable energy that is available for harvesting" just won't cut it here.

Now, if we jump over "renewable" and goto "free" energy we obviously have a problem Houston. The problem, of course, is the limitations that our own current physics knowledge imposes upon us. No matter how far you take the equations you ultimately, and always, come down to: "you just don't get something for nothing!".

The problems of mass, momentum, inertia and the resulting impossibility of 90º instant turns, etc. has already been brought up, but lets play with the possibilities anyway.

Earlier (post #15) I was following up on comments by Del and I said "It seems obvious that any intelligence can observe things in lower dimensions, but the reverse if never true. For example, the classic flatlanders existing in the X/Y plane cannot visualize, or even conceive, a Z plane, but we humans see the flatlanders without difficulty." Furthermore, we have the ability to visit the flatlanders by simply just stepping onto their world. We look down we see them, but they cannot see us. There's no way their physics knowledge (assuming they have such a thing) can create a 3-dimensional model. They may be able to speculate about a 3rd dimension in the way we speculate about 4th, 5th dimensions, etc. but they have a real problem with actually visualizing it!

What I'm getting at is (playing with the possibilities) that maybe the "aliens" are all around us but we just can't see them. We somehow think that any aliens that visit us must somehow possess extraordinary intelligence and technological abilities far exceeding our own. This is not necessarily true. Maybe they're no more advanced than us, or maybe even less advanced. Maybe they just simply exist in a different dimension. What we perceive as something possessing mass and making 90º instant turns is just the natural order of things.

We are an arrogant sort though aren"t we? We somehow think our mathematical systems are the only truisms in the universe. I suppose the flatlanders feel the same way about theirs.

-John

Good one- odd. I've seen the serious. video but did not have it bookmarked. Anyway it just reinforces my point. I believe the narrator made at least one important error though. When he was describing the 2nd dimension (flatlanders) he said that a balloon being blown up would be perceived by them as a circle. For the flatlander to see it as a circle, he would have to look down on it (implying height which doesn't exist in his world). Actually, the flatlander would see the expanding balloon as a straight line that gets progressively longer.

Also, it seems that quantum physicists have concluded that eleven dimensions are necessary to make superstring theory work out.

The point is that it's easy to conceptualize downward but much more difficult upward. Granted, time, as the fourth dimension is a relatively easy one but beyond that... I'm not so sure that something else (an unrecognized dimension) may be competing with time for 4th dimensions place.

Looking down can cause dizzyness.

Just reading the title made me dizzy

One problem (and I hate to be pessimistic here) with harvesting such energy in its various forms here on Earth is one of altering the environment in dangerous and unforeseeable ways.

Say, for instance, we found an effective and efficient way to harness the power of the Jet Stream. The Jet Stream has profound effects on weather on a global scale. Let's say we were so efficient at removing energy that the Jet Stream stopped altogether. What then? Massive flooding? Droughts that last centuries? Mammoth hurricanes?

And what about removing waste heat? As no process is 100% efficient, there will always be waste heat. How to get rid of it? This isn't just a byproduct of using "ambient" energy sources such as atmospheric electricity, the Jet Stream, and so forth. All processes produce it.

For example, the conversion efficiency of the best coal-fired power plants still hovers around 31%. The rest is dissipated as waste heat. No matter what kind of energy sources we harness, no matter how efficient they are, we will eventually bake ourselves alive if we don't find a way to dump this heat into space. Harnessing what we can of it only delays the problem; it will exact its toll eventually, one way or another.

Sorry to be such a black hole of cheerfulness, but eventually this will become The Engineering Problem of the Millennium. Maybe this Millennium.

All good points, and therein lies the rub:

How to "harvest" sustainably "free energy" that we don't know how to harvest ... because the laws of physics as we know them limit our abilities (for example) to change the gravitational field without disrupting everything else.

Now, what if a few of us really dense matter lower vibrational third dimensional humans did know how to move a large stone without a lever, or taking a leap of faith, what if someone had some ideas of how to lift off from Earth to the cosmos, would they post these brilliant ideas here?

"...would they post these brilliant ideas here?"

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Not without a good patent agent and a generous helping of solid business sense.

Like, you don't see me posting my brilliant ideas here, do you?

I like this idea of Yuval's...anyone have a clue how old we humans really are, how long the universe has been here, and where one might discover the constituents of time?

Jules

Hi Jules,

"anyone have a clue how old we humans really are"

Well, I just had a birthday but I won't tell...

Now, lets see. Time. Hmmmmm...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. oops, almost dozed off. Sorry Jules.

It's interesting that "at a subatomic level there is no distinction between the past and the future".

Keith Mayes says "Describing time as another dimension agrees with relativity, [but in doing do] it does have some unfortunate consequences, it says that the future is already determined! I dislike the idea that the future may be 'already there' just waiting for us to pass over it, because if true, where does that leave destiny and freewill?"

He does present some good "food for thread" (thought).

-John

"at a subatomic level there is no distinction between the past and the future".

Those sub atomic particles don't seem to worry about stuff tho'

I think it's as meaningless as the observation that.

A human has no distinction between before and after death.

PS. Hey Jules...I'll be sure to include some thyme in that dinner menu.

In fact while I'm here....I'll save you having to think up what to cook tonight.

Haddock fillet covered with a thin piece of bacon or slices of salami...baked in the oven for about 15 mins. Boiled new potatoes, side salad with herbs be sure to include thyme (else that Haddock won't cook!) and a nice dressing of your choice. Glass of chilled white wine or two.

Shame I can't come and cook it.....(Mrs Cat would scratch my eyes out....)

I am salivating...Jerome wouldn't mind if you came and cooked dinner for us. Tell Mrs Cat it's allowed....

1. The time 'dimension' is only a part of whole mathematical entity, required to plot and describe active, spacial, processes

2. The time 'dimension' is as deterministic as the other three.

While those are not pre-determined, so is time: Here is an imaginary example, sometimes called "Thought Experiment":

Suppose you have the ability to travel very fast in space. At low speeds, you clock would tic at about normal pace. you may still have the choice to decide weather you want to go faster or you may want to go slower.

Now, suppose you decide to go faster. The faster you'd go, the slower your clock would tic, and the shorter travel dimension be. Once you decide to slow down the opposite will happen.

Hey, if guys can invent stuff like this, anything is possible!

Jules

"Powered by a 50-year-old, 750-pound Boeing jet turbine that Stender bought for $5,000, the "Port-O-Jet" can top 46 mph with a tailwind..."

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Tailwind. I don't like the sound of that. Not with this device, anyway.

This device lends new meaning to the old saying "It was a blast from the past."

Somehow the melody to Dust In The Wind comes to mind.

So, does this mean that aliens have found a way to travel through space and time using methane for fuel?

They've got a ship filled with people sitting on toilet seats and fed copious amounts of potatoes. The gas is collected and stored in huge containers and fed into the engines for propulsion.

For navigation, they use the Peter Pan method..."second star to the right and straight on 'til morning".

Or just do it like Captain Kirk said, "Mr. Sulu, let's go...thataway!"

Ancient, illustrated texts recently unearthed from Stonehenge reveal that the star-faring beings that built it used a type of Synchronous Rectumfriers. According to the texts, each denizen sat in an enclosure which closely resembled a Tardis, but one having an ample, well-stocked magazine rack. Clearly the RocketPoddy - a variant of the well-known Flatus Drive - is based on prior art. No chance there for a patent, but ingenious just the same. Traces of scorched kimchi and deviled eggs were found at the ancient site, but no potatoes. Apparently the mixture reacted in the travellers' GI tract much the same as would a hypergolic fuel.

Re Rectumfriers....

Old joke.

Man in canteen, pointing to menu on the chalk board

'..I'll have some of those Pissoles please'

' That's not a P that's an R '

'Ok I'll have some of those Arssoles please...'

Nice play on sounds and words... dunno if it translates properly to US as you guys say ass hole...we say arse hole.

Oh now, I don't mean you should post marketable details, just a little tidbit or two to tittilate our senses.

I of all people would never recommend posting anything that has the slightest suggestion of a real and patentable invention...however, sharing ideas is fun, and reading about other people's exploits is really fun. Reading about other people's truly out there ideas is even more fun, especially when the engineers start having differing opinions...

Never a dull moment on CR-4 when the ideas start flying around, bouncing off each other.

Are you sure you're not a closet anarchist? Here, take a seat while I don my lab coat and clipboard.

I would never admit to being an anarchist!

Ha!

It's just dawned on me Photonic Girl is just teasing us...she's the Alien...

obviously Photonic in nature and can therefore move about at the speed of light!

You'd think she'd look a bit more ...shimmery...maybe.

For those of you who doubt the shimmering, let me introduce you to one of my local friends...

I get it. You're the bright light in K-Pax. How's Kevin doing these days?

Admitting it will neutralise the sting off it. But, see, detecting it without a shred of proof, sharpens it back.

It's the doubt that does it.

Photonicgirl! Give this a thought for your consideration..The UFO's, the way you are speaking; They are not unidentified to them! Perhaps 'they are not from a distant planet or from the dark side of the moon. Perhaps they are us coming back in time. There is no know reason why this could not be the origin. Just as there is no known reason why they could be something else. 75 years ago we thought we couldn't move through time. Remember the B52 experiment, two traveling in different directions around the planet with onboard atomic cdlocks...The time was not the same when they landed. It is us!

I have no problem with the concept of time travel, us traveling back and forth. I do think there are more beings out there than "us," in which case perhaps all of "us" are traveling back and forth in time Together.

Jules

Of course UFOs exist. The problem, though, is once you identify them, they cease to exist.

Please elaborate. Once identified, are you saying they cease to exist entirely or they cease to be "unidentified." If they exist, what type of technology do you suppose they use?

Does anybody have any connections to Eugene Podkletnov, he has made some amazing claims. If there was any truth to what he talks about it would fit right in with this. Regardless I am sure his comments would be interesting, if he was a CR4 member.

Ok..from the very brief glimpse I've had of one of these...

My understanding of the VATE (vector addition thrusts engine) is sketchy but here goes an attempt at explanation

Imagine you are whirling a ball on a sting...action and reaction equal and opposite...ball trying to fly out you pulling it in as two equal constantly rotating vectors.

As you twirl it faster and faster...loads of energy in...nothing out in terms of nett displacement.

But as the ball's velocity approaches 'c' then the time dilation causes a shift between it's vector pulling out and your vector, until at a certain speed the two actually coincide such that action and reaction are equal ...but in the same direction.

At this instant the accumulated energy input suddenly produces a huge displacement in one direction.

Sort of like the current voltage phase relationship in an AC machine.

Now the control and sync' of this surge is the tricky bit as there are typically 20 VTEs worrking in sync' powered electro dynamically from some sort of nuclear core, having to hit the critical point at exactly the right time.

Each VATE is very small but the housings are extremely strong and mounted together in a complex spherical sort of grid arrangement.

I'm not able to say more, even if I understood it, and those who do, probably won't.

I've hi-jacked Del's identity to post this, but I expect he'll gladly take any credit.

A. Hornblower

Hi Photonicgirl; After commenting and reading that of others; I am sencing that your knowledge on the subject is rudamentary. No offence ment, however you seem to be asking questions that of a young person. Please tell us your education level or age. Your thread seems to be all over the place. What do you want to know? I will just tell you. If I can't tell you, I will say so,; Therefore you may assume a positive. MJ12

Ashman,

It's no secret, I'm a writer fishing for a good story. I'm a reader looking for a good read. I have spent a lot of time chronicling the exploits of physicists, chemists, doctors and engineers, and their friendly banter amuses me.

As for my age, I am immortal.

Jules

Well Photonic Girl; A writer you are.... Do you want a true story, or are you just saying you want a true story? As far as being imortal, I think not. For I am an Archangel, Lucifer, and I do not even have Gods ear. I only get to speak directly with Cheribum and Cerifum< Although the spelling changes in its original. PS: I am surprised that no talk of things like MJ12, Luminaty, Skull and Bones, Area 51. Groom lake I worked at. Although I am not imortal, I am who I am. I am omnipitent. I have the phone number of my contact in Vegas at 57&7, do the simple code. Do you want to fly the then Janet Air? Its a short hop from Vegas to Groom but it's the bus drive you gotta pack water for. If you go there, or in, remenber to pack things you consider a luxory. You may not be able to leave. Bring stamps and have your mail sent to the Casino 2 blocks down the road from 57&7; pay them off and they will take it to 57&7 and you will get it. You will be greatfull for that at least. Further, Please understand that this forum that you lucked on to is to some sort of a vent for the opinion of sequested scientists, ( those, are the ones you need an opinion from, I am one, the engineers follow rules taught by someone more knowledgable than themselfs. A scientist is one that out thinks their teacher, the creator of ideas, the creator of all future ). You can quote me on that one. OK PhG? I want to go off forum on any further coment, If you want an interview via phone , I am not worried of reprocusions because as soon as I speak, the listener is in my boat. Also 2012 isn't too far away. What's left will be a bunch of resurected 1960 vegetarian hippies that don't even know how to survive without having to revert back to what happened before, ( 10000 yrs.ago ). By the way in your writing.....The great stones lifted in the past?....They fell Up. ( I am serious, and can prove it! ) helliwellash@aol.com for PhG or Del only !! rest shall be terminated. ( No threat because people don't kill people; people put themselves in a situation to kill themselves). I'm sure I am tagged on this one! You wanted a story, I have your answer with fact!!!!!!! Better hurry, it will take three day before they think my termination. I just get to keep coming back as someone /something else; And get the same job done.

( Oh and for all wacked out disblievers that say I am F o' S , I meen again! Test me ! )

Hey Ash,

You have been allegorically tested but now you've gone and done it. You can run but you can't warp (we know where you are).

Johnjohn; I can not be found because...I only exist in the minds of people than need me to exist. I only exist for the guilty. I just take'em to Hell, I don't judge; My full time job is this! One whom stirs the pot. lol Thanks JJ ash