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Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

Posted February 01, 2015 12:00 AM
Pathfinder Tags: challenge question

This month's Challenge Question: Specs & Techs from IHS Engineering360:

It's 2045 and a group of space pioneers are on an interplanetary transport to the Callisto colony. The pioneers were awoken from a four-year hibernation, having traveled to Jupiter's orbit only to find a large dumbbell-shaped asteroid several hundred kilometers wide where they expected Jupiter to be. Where are they?

And the answer is:

The transport must have had a critical navigation error early in the trip because it sounds like they have reached Jupiter's leading Lagrangian point, L4 , and are viewing 624 Hektor, the largest of Jupiter's Trojans.

"624Hektor-LB1-mag15" by I, Kevin Heider. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons - http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:624Hektor-LB1-mag15.jpg#mediaviewer/File:624Hektor-LB1-mag15.jpg

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#1

Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/01/2015 6:59 AM

In an episode of Galactica...a new series that hasn't started yet....

216 Kleopatra..

http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/46747d0513c7b

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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/01/2015 11:17 AM

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#3

Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/01/2015 12:03 PM

My guess is that they are staring at asteroid 1989 PB, which puts them fairly close to Earth due to a malfunction with their on-board computer, HAL.

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#4
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/01/2015 12:59 PM

Also, at the rate that NASA has been moving, we would be lucky to be able to send men much further than lunar orbit by 2045.

Or was that a misprint and they meant 2145?

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#5
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/01/2015 5:30 PM

There's a project called 'HOPE'. 'Wishful Thinking' mights have been better, but here ya go.... humans visiting outer planets circa 2045.

Th

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#6
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/01/2015 5:46 PM

I think they are smoking HOPE.

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#17
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/02/2015 9:09 AM

Well, considering that Obama decided to 'refocus' NASA away from 'space exploration' (BOOO!!!!!) and toward 'monitoring, researching, and finding solutions for global climate change (Yay for putting manpower and resources on the project, but was that the best use for the NASA eggheads?). I'm wondering if we'll be able to maintain an American presence at Low Earth Orbit while out guys are just passengers on the Russian and Chinese launches to the ISS?

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#20
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/02/2015 10:42 AM

I really feel that climate change is not the primary mission for NASA, but then again, space exploration and pushing technology forward does nothing to further the political agendas of the current administration - so that is why we are no longer a leader in that arena.

Additionally, since NASA is essentially a political tool, the next administration will probably bring little improvement to the table.

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#21
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/02/2015 12:05 PM

People quickly forget what NASA has done to improve modern life, because the innovations are brought in gradually and seamlessly these days, as opposed to the sudden and "Look! It's from Space!" introduction of Tang.

http://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2008/tech_benefits.html

We need to remember that of the two inhabited planets in this system(1), only one is able to support us, and we know that's only going to last for a limited time (billions of years until the Sun goes red giant and swallows the Earth, sooner than that(2) before the environment ceases to be hospitable), so unless we want humanity to die in the cradle that it was born in, we need to keep looking outward, into the universe.

Notes:

  1. This system has one planet officially inhabited entirely by robots, and one inhabited by a bunch of loony primates.
  2. The question of 'how soon' devolves quickly into political-religious arguments, so I'm not even going to speculate on that.
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#23
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/02/2015 12:31 PM

The technology spin-offs from NASA were the direct result of problem solving the enormous challenges of both unmanned and manned spaceflight.

Wrestling with the political football of climate change is far less technically challenging as it is mostly simple diplomatic rhetoric.

I personally believe that the climate change sky is not falling. It will become clear what is really happening over time and over reacting now seems to be the tune of the day because it is politically expedient to do so.

However, defocusing NASA is/was the wrong thing to do.

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#28
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/03/2015 11:40 AM

The thing is that once NASA is done collecting all this data, the climate change trolls will have to bury it to keep the real truth from coming out that, "the king has no clothes". Furthermore we will sleep better at night knowing that NASA has our back, and all is well, don't worry, be happy. It is climate desiderada.

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#7

Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/01/2015 5:48 PM

They spotted a hot alien chic that needed a jump....?

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#40
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

03/06/2017 2:17 PM

Hot?! Surely she'd be a trifle chilly sitting outside in that outfit...

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#41
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

03/08/2017 2:00 PM

Maybe she just needs a jump, or would that be a tune up?

I know, totally inappropriate.

We have another word for chilly weather here in West Texas, but I will not digress.

Maybe there is a warm atmosphere on that moon, just not one amenable to sustaining human life, i.e. too much carbon dioxide (not human caused), or too much something else toxic but that might be peeling her skin off by now.

I hope some stranger comes by and offers her a ride.

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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

03/09/2017 9:38 AM

Funniest ever sig-line (by Europium), 'Gal walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre, the barman....' I'll leave the punchline for you to guess or find. User vermin had a close second with reply to 'What happens if you break the speed of light ?' - 'You pay for it'. CR4 has many hidden gems, both trechnical and humerous.

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#8

Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/01/2015 6:37 PM

My guess is that it is one of the "Trojan" asteroids which follow behind and in front of Jupiter held by the combined gravity of Jupiter and the sun in two of jupiter's five La grangian points. It would de relatively easy to miss Jupiter and end up at one of these points.

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#9
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/01/2015 7:44 PM

I kinda wondered that too, since the question said "....having traveled to Jupiter's orbit...", but the Trojan (and Greek) Asteroids are 60 degrees behind (and ahead of) Jupiter in its orbit.

It'd be like leaving Atlanta headed for Cleveland and accidentally landing in Philadelphia. How could that happen, when NAV systems are accurate to better than tenths of a second of arc?

(Wikipedia image)

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#10
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/01/2015 7:57 PM

I agree it sounds inlikely that advanced technology to allow cryo packed people to travel for 4 years couldn't get them to the right location when we can do it now with unmaned probes. Given the necessary mass of the spaceship to transport people plus supplies etc I would assume that they would be using several gravity slingshots to minimise fuel consumption so this would make the trajectory more complicated, however, I can't think of anything short of some sort of accident (meteor impact, faulty equipment, etc) to cause enough of a disruption to miss by that much.

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#11
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/01/2015 9:34 PM

Maybe a confusion of SI and Imperial units, as has happened before. An uncontrolled, but replicated, experiment.

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#18
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/02/2015 9:19 AM

"Maybe a confusion of SI and Imperial units, as has happened before. An uncontrolled, but replicated, experiment."

The last SI/SAE confusion I remember was the two mars probes that did 'impact testing' instead of the intended orbits.

I don't think we'd want to try that again with human 'crash-test dummies.'

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#16
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/02/2015 8:33 AM

In the real world (or space) you would expect that the space craft would be constantly monitored by ground control on Earth.

If the crew was really in hibernation you would want careful observation of the craft's progress and the ability to make mid-course corrections (as we do now with all our space probes).

In this case it would appear that not only is the crew in hibernation, but everyone is also asleep at the switch on the ground.

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#13
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/01/2015 10:11 PM

There is a dumbell shaped asteroid in the Trojan lagrange point of Jupiter called 624Hektor which seems to fit the description from the question.

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#15
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/02/2015 4:44 AM

I'm torn here: this is an inconceivable mistake in navigation, but, I think it's the explanation the questioner had in mind:-

http://www.universetoday.com/109863/did-an-icy-collision-produce-the-odd-shape-of-asteroid-624-hektor/

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#12

Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/01/2015 10:08 PM

Well, I've thought about this, and the only explanation I've got that makes sense is this:

While the interplanetary pioneers were asleep, in transit, the Vogons arrived to build the intergalactic highway. This required - in addition to demolishing Earth for the overpass - that they move Jupiter out of the way to built an intergalactic truck stop and temporarily mark the location with a dog-boned-shaped asteroid, this being the standard intergalactic shape used for 'under construction' signs.

The work was still underway when our intrepid travelers arrived and woke up.

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#14

Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/01/2015 11:11 PM

Maybe the result of four years cryogenic storage plus the thaw process plus other biomedical outcomes has altered the shape of their eyeballs so that what we see as a spherical moon (Of Jupiter) is distorted into that apparent shape for their perception.

Do we call this the Hubble Bubble effect of prolonged zero G.

The other possibility is that they are seeing the new/modified "Callisto" moon of Jupiter that has been reformed by "moonal warming" due to human involvement that has evaporated away the Ammonia, leaving only the rocky portion behind.

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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/02/2015 9:20 AM
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#22

Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/02/2015 12:17 PM

Following on from what others have mentioned, is the location somewhere on this animation ?

624 Hektor in Blue, Jupiter's orbit in red.

Hektor may be just a spec of dust compared to Jupiter, but the question only stipulates being on Jupiter's orbit, not anywhere near the planet itself.

Is it possible to sit on the red line at such a point that Hektor appears bigger than Jupiter. Not grasping Laragian Points is leaving me a bit stumped.

Dammit, I'm just going to say it's related to one of the two intercepts on the above diagram.

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#26
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/02/2015 5:55 PM

I'll dig myself a deeper hole;

Ignore the previous typo. Hektor is in one of the Lagrangian Points. I think it's L4.

Image source and explanation.

If the travellers are ahead of Hektor in the L4 region, view of Jupiter is blocked. A bit like a coin at arms length blocking ones view of the moon.

Doing an exact calculation is messy because it has to take into account the orbital characteristics shown in my previous post.

The mention of Callisto is slightly spurious, inserted becaus it gives some credibility to such a mission (even if the dates of such proposals are flights of fantasy). The crew would have to leave L4 and head toward Jupiter if they wanted to find Callisto.

Now I'll shaddup.

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#24

Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/02/2015 2:29 PM

Riding in an interplanetary transport, just where they were when they went to sleep, of course.

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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/02/2015 3:18 PM

An asteroid hit the Earth and the entire planet was blanketed in debris blocking all communication to space, the computer failed to awaken the crew because there was no reason to,,,,,for 3 million years....They are now sitting somewhere on the other side of the Galaxy and a message from an alien species has been intercepted by the computer, which has chosen to awaken the crew because it has no program to deal with such a situation....

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#27

Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/03/2015 10:54 AM

The astronauts/cosmonauts have overshot their original goal and now are at the L4 Lagrangian point in Jupiter's orbit and are approaching the largest of the "Trojan" asteroids in the "Greek Camp" at 60 degrees ahead of Jupiter. The asteroid they have sighted is 624 Hektor, a contact binary asteroid of size roughly 350 x 200 km.

They should next take a path back toward and slightly outside the orbit of Jupiter to approach the planet and their original goal of the moon Callisto.

Brett

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#29
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/03/2015 12:28 PM

With some (very) rough calculations, I placed them at within 2,300,00 km of Hektor.

Your explanation is nicely succint, but I gave prettier pictures .

Welcome to the madness of CR4.

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#33
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/07/2015 12:22 PM

misplaced comma, or misplaced comet?

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#35
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/08/2015 12:59 AM

That's downright evil, James ! My using a few beers and the back of an envelope is a tried and trusted technique.

Can't find the enevelope, but I used rough numbers for object size and distance. From there on it was a case of Some Of Harry's Cows And Horses Trod On Arthur (couldn't resist - there's a current blog on memmory stuff). It may be out by a few orders of magnitude, but it's within any practical use. I'm on Brit times, so the workshop doesn't open until lunchtime .

Fun trivia : Check out Katherine Johnson. NASA trusted her abilities more than any computer available at the time. Not sure if she's listed, but she's a great candidate for the WOW blog.

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#36
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/10/2015 8:22 AM

You know, some peeps are just smarter than others, period. I had a cousin working at NASA that designed the Gemini-Soyuz docking rings. I am sure he did a few other things as well, but I remember that one for sure. Maybe he knows or knew Katherine Johnson, as I am sure they were contemporaries.

Getting back to the OP, I am thinking maybe this spacecraft is called "Greyhound", because it sure seems to be after the "bone"!

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#37
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/10/2015 10:15 AM

lol !

The Space Family Robinson, aka Lost in Space, were aboard Jupiter 2. Nice coincidence for the Question setter.

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#38
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/17/2015 11:55 PM

I reckon you blokes have all gone off on a tangent. They are in reality, just around the corner from "Pluto" the object is the dog's bone. So easy it hurts.

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#39
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Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/18/2015 12:33 PM

Around the corner, or around the bend, mate?

Several blokes were standing on a cliff, each with his own story to tell, one told of his endeavors to strive, one, a beekeeper of his hive, and another, a submariner chose to dive.

Never be the last one to rhyme?

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#30

Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/03/2015 2:43 PM

They are in deep do do. Regardless of which asteroid these pioneers are staring at, the only way that they could be this badly missed the largest planet in our solar system is if nobody from Earth could correct the trajectory. Regardless of this being a communication, engine, end of life on Earth root cause for this failure this little rock will not provide enough gravity pull for a return sling shot back to Earth.

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#31

Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/06/2015 9:10 AM

They are on an interplanetary transport. It tells you that in the first sentence.

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#32

Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/06/2015 7:21 PM

Wait a minute! This sounds suspiciously like a 1960s TV series. Is there a doctor by the name of Smith on board?

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#34

Re: Jovian System: Newsletter Challenge (February 2015)

02/07/2015 2:25 PM

1.) the gravitational force of jupiter has destroyed Callisto and remains only a poor Asteroid

2.) the 30 year journey has an error in the fllightcurve to the callisto colony

3.) the callisto curve around jupiter is not exact enough for the rendevouz

4.) there are many other error sources for a journey like that

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