Students Rage Against the Machine

Oh, wow. I was thinking that since I am younger than 25 I was sure to hear the tone. However, when I went to your YouTube link I found that I could not hear the frequency! I'm hurt that it says "If you can hear this you're probably below 24 years old." I guess my hearing (or lack thereof) can be attributed to all those years of blasting my headphones (Score 1 pt for my Mother).

When I was in high school cell phones were starting to become popular, but since not everyone had one they were still easy for school admins to take away. Now, I know my 13 year old step-sister will not go anywhere unless her cell phone is at her side. Cell phones are now a "must have" for teens, and they're not willing to go anywhere without them. The mosquito ringtone is ingenious because now they don't have to worry about missing a call text or IM.

Sharkles,

Thanks for the comment. I was amazed that I could hear it myself, but I know it is only a matter of time and judging from how weak my reaction is, I am guessing I can't hear it very well.

My dad's command was that if he could hear the music from my headphones, it was too loud. Of course, all I could see was him pointing at his ears and yelling, but I digress.

I did play it over headphones in my office without telling anyone (unintentionally, actually) and it was interesting to see who spun around from their cubicles to complain.

Also interesting that there is a report out that radiation from cell phones might be particularly harmful to kids and teens as their grey matter is still developing.

I know my headphones are too loud when a co-worker sends me a message with lyrics to the song that I'm listening too. Oops!

I did hear the report about cell phones and radiation. It's scary stuff considering how many people have them. I got my first "real" cell phone when I got my lisence so that I would have it "just in case something happened". Now, young kids (even under 12) are toting these things around in their pockets. I'm afraid to find out what this will mean in the long run...

I didn't get my first one until after grad school. And I see kids as young as six and seven with them, but not really in large numbers until high school and then it seems like every kid, or at least 2 out of 3 have them.

I am not totally sold on this idea that the radiation is cancer causing, just yet. I am still waiting for the "microwave causes cancer" link to be established since my dad made me stand in the living room when it was on for the first year we had a microwave.

But either way, its scary to think what could happen if that link is established.

Hi Sharkles

I just re-read your post #1. Using a YouTube link, the sound must be downloaded, then played through the computer's speaker or earphones. There is a pretty good chance that some device in the system does not have sufficient frequency response to reproduce the sound. Cellphones have very tiny speakers that can easily reach those frequencies.

You can't test your hearing ability unless you are sure the sound is actually being created at an appropriate intensity. If you haven't tried an actual cellphone, you may sitll be able to hear it.

Ah, good! I was thinking that it would be awful sad to have such poor hearing a such a young age. Thanks

Cheating is bad enough without having an easy way to do it. It seems that this year (and the upcoming years) kids already don't have the drive to do their own work. I remember in high school that no matter how much we complained about the amount of work, we still did it - and got rewarded for it. Nowadays, teachers in smaller schools don't even want to deal with it. It isn't just one or two people in a class anymore - it is the whole class.

Then, teachers are expected to pass everyone when the students don't come prepared to class (some don't even have a pen/pencil and notebook!), disrespect the teacher and don't pay attention. It is outrageous that teachers are getting the burden for being both a parent and an educator (I know some, if not most parents, don't instill the values of education these days - unlike how they used to). Parents just don't seem to care as much these days about helping their students get straight A's. I remember my dad would help me with math and make me practice tests and he worked all day. He spent what little time he had drilling me. My mom even tested me with spelling and vocabulary as we did the dishes. I bet that not one kid could say that their parents do that for them anymore.

The school system needs a bit more discipline, not so much about good behavior, but about the willingness to learn more than you already know. Start with the parents and home life.

It is outrageous that teachers are getting the burden for being both a parent and an educator (I know some, if not most parents, don't instill the values of education these days - unlike how they used to).

I could not agree with you more Jaxy. It seems that students are not really going to classes to learn anymore, but rather are just going to say they were there. I used to get so frustrated as an undergrad to be sitting in the vicinity of anyone using a cell phone during class. Cell phone use in the classroom is a disrespectful distraction to both the teacher and the other students.

Unfortunately, if parents don't spend time teaching their kids disipline and respect and home then (I don't think) they will ever learn. When I worked at the Writing Center at school, I heard countless students say that they were just going to college so they could get a better job later in life. While this is a bad attitude to have about education, it's a common one.

Jaxy,

I would agree with you, but I also don't want to sound like, as a teacher, I am passing the buck and putting blame on someone else. Teachers certainly don't do it right all the time, myself included. But I do feel more resistance from just buckling down and getting the job done than I have in years past. One student I had last year wanted a deal where he would get bonus points if he showed up with paper, pen, and his book. It has become a cultural issue with the U.S.

My wife asks our friends and family not to mention the word "entitlement" within my earshot because I am sure to go off on a rant about issues in education and society, but I feel like all issues in U.S. education (and by that I mean actual learning more than budgets or facilities, stand alone) come back to it.

One item that bothers me a ton, however, is that parents now often care more about grades than about learning. It doesn't matter if you earn an A, as long as you score an A. If that makes any sense.

One of my good friends is a teacher in high school. I know that you don't want to sound like you are passing the buck - and you are not! I assure you that teachers are caught in the middle. My teacher friend told me about how he caught someone blatantly copying someone else's lab work (I am talking two labs with whole paragraphs of the same sentences, no changes in wording). He had the parent come in and the parent blew up in his face. He claimed that his precious daughter could do no wrong and used the internet (there was no referencing from either papers - and his daughter was the one who failed the quizzes/tests while the other succeeded). He defended his daughter until the death, but sometimes the kids need to take the fall and do the time. It is outrageous that the evidence was right there in front of him and he still denied it. How do you argue with the mentality of a parent? Extremely difficult if not impossible.

The teachers can't even go to the administration - it is so bad that even they don't want a part of it and they are the LEADERS! They claim it is between the teacher and the student/parent. There isn't even respect between the parents and teachers, parents act like the teachers don't even know what they are doing.

I have some great plagiarism stories, but my favorite comes from a colleague. He writes under a pseudonym and is a published author.

One student turned in one of his poems as her own and when confronted at a parent-teacher conference, she said it was just coincidence.

Now that you can get all of Romeo and Juliet via text message, I am concerned that it is going to get even worse, though. Real time plagiarism, at your desk!

I taught for 32 years, mostly high school physics & related stuff. The kind of things you are describing led me to retire from teaching at age 55, 13 years ago. Best thing I ever did!

Although the occasional excellent student who does very well after school is VERY rewarding, and I have had several of those, they are a pretty small percentage; my current engineering work is also very rewarding, and WAY lower stress level.

I have had the opportunity to teach alternative education and I know that it can burn you out, something fierce. But it can also be so much more rewarding.

If anyone out there is a teacher and wants to reinvigorate themselves, I suggest a training I recently went to called "Capturing Kids Hearts". The name itself almost turned me off of it because it sounded so touchy-feely-kumbaiyah-in-a-circle-ish for me, but after two people I respect endorsed it, I went. When I heard a guy named Stanley Leone speak about going from thug to college honors graduate, I knew that this might be something I wanted to look at for my own class. He used to have a video up about his experience on his myspace page if anyone wants to check it out.

Talk about empowering yourself to make a specific difference.

My hat is off to you that you taught for 32 years. It is a tougher job than most people realize and that you did for over three decades is remarkable. I have only been doing this for eight, so far. But I still want the opportunity to change the world, and for me, someone who is not gifted with superior intellect and general disdain for math beyond geometry, teaching was the way to do it. If I just do what I could do, which would mean become a professional writer or work myself out a book deal, I wouldn't have the "grass roots" impact.

Change starts with each of us. That is why, despite the stress, the late nights, and the wife who continually shakes her head....I just can't walk away. Maybe after 32 years in, I will feel the same way. But I hope not.

You are right about discipline, but I think in the philosophical sense of the word. To find learning to be the goal, the acquisition of knowledge and enlightenment.

Not the acquisition of grades.

I agree totally with you. The cheating issue goes to the heart of the problem however. In the long run, the students that cheated will become politicians and the country (filled with adults that didnt learn at school) will fail. We will get what we deserve.

No doubt. Which is why we need to fix this problem from a philosophical stand point. Just creating cell phone jammers only solves the delivery technique of the cheater, not the root problem of kids understanding that it is just wrong.

Jammers will only work until the next inventions comes out. And since I have a wireless drop in my classroom for the schools laptop carts, it's not like I can eventually block the wireless signal, too.

Right now, the signal is filtered, like all internet access, but it once again becomes a game of hackers and filters.

The same problem applies. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

The biggest problem with these 'jammers' is that kids can and will find a way around them. Just because there are school rules against phones in school doesn't mean that people don't bring them. Some even bring them for legitimate reasons - such as calling after they're done with practice, so their parents don't come too early. That is the only reason I ever brought my phone to school. It was in my locker the rest of the time. Perhaps the rule should only limit to a school 'in-session' time-frame rather than the whole school area all of the time.

Making cool gadgets to inhibit kids and their phones isn't going to permanently deter them. They need to start respecting the people that are teaching them valuable information to make the quality of life much better (aka teachers - in case you didn't catch that ).

Ha. It was duly noted!

And you echo my sentiments (or I echo yours, not sure who has proprietary rights on sentiments) exactly.

Hi guys

Classrooms should be fitted with a detection device that points out the culprit and then shoots a laser beam to destroy the mobile phone. Like in space wars. That'll teach 'em.

Ha! I love it. Either that or change the ring tone to The Spice Girls and then play it non-stop for ten minutes at the highest volume setting.

Hi all,

As university teacher, I will never fire a laser or similar thing to a cell phone. There are some other "technical" solutions. Even if Mosquito ring tone were banned, there are still some other ways to avoid the teacher notice the cell phone. The solution is in frequency inhibitors which avoid students to use cell phones for any purpose during classroom or examination time.

Kind regards

The solution is in frequency inhibitors which avoid students to use cell phones for any purpose during classroom or examination time.

the problem there, is that lawsuits are then brought against the user of said frequency inhibitor/jammer... "what if I had to get ahold of my little johnny in an emergency.... that jammer-thing would prevent it" of course, that is most likely only here in the US, where apparently you can take offense just because someone looks at you in public..

one of my roomates in college actually made a cell-phone jammer for his senior project... only works on the old analog phones though... it was really neat i must say, just fooled the cell into basically trying to connect to itself :)

Coming from being raised with two teachers (middle-school, so 11-14 year olds) for parents, I fully understand the frustrations of cell-phone use in the classroom. My father has always had a good policy, which is usually enforced... if you're doing something you shouldn't be doing in his class.. and he catches you (class size of only 20ish students.. fairly easy to keep track of)... whatever it is you were using... he now owns... you don't get it back till the end of the year. Fortunately his administration backs him up on everything.

"what if I had to get ahold of my little johnny in an emergency.... that jammer-thing would prevent it"

If I need to contact my little Johnny because an emergency I can call the school and explain this "real emergency" and they can act accordingly, without impairing any right (According to my point of view). Of course I'm not a lawyer nor US citizen and I don't know the exact terms of US Laws, but I think this is a simple solution.

Kind regards

I agree. School administration is quite capable of delivering messages, that's not the problem. A lot of people have come to the point where they feel like they need the phone on them at all times. I don't think a lot of people remember what life was like before cell phones, which is quite sad.

I have parents that call during class all the time. If a student let's me know ahead of time that they have an important call from their folks, I use it as a chance to teach discretion and have them leave the room quietly, take the call, and then quietly return.

It is a lesson more than a few adults could stand to learn.

But the point is well played. How many times does a parent NEED to contact a child immediately that cannot be done by contacting the school and not interrupting the the class.

"If I need to contact my little Johnny because an emergency I can call the school and explain this "real emergency" and they can act accordingly,"...regarding the laws... it's not even a real problem with law... more PERCIEVED law/rights, these are the ones that everyone really makes a stink about, and usually wins :(

oh, trust me, that is of course the appropriate direction to be taking.. that is why there is a receptionist @ the front desk of the school... however, there seems to be a mentality here that you must be capable of immediately contacting your child..without the "hassle" of having to explain yourself to the go-betweens... my gosh, what ever did we do when our family had to be contacted in an emergency before the advent of cell phones!?!?!? *sigh*...

Regarding the noise detection... it is actually a relatively simple matter to do something of the sort, I agree... I may even have to do something along those lines, see if it can be implemented in my folks classroom(s)... hhhmm..

Keep me posted if you think of or find anything that works. It could be interesting to talk device efficacy at a later date!

Actually, one of the best solutions I have seen implemented was "The Pie Fest". One German teacher at my school fines students 1 pie for every time he sees a cell phone or one goes off in his class.

He is also liable to the same rule in the event he forgets to turn off his ringer, which I admit I have also done from time to time.

Once per month they have pie fest and any violators have to bring in pie for the class.

The nutrition committee isn't a fan, but it is unique.

I agree that this is the route that it probably goes. Some sort of signal jamming technology.

But the old lefty in me just feels like this smells of police state. I have probably been reading too much George Orwell this summer...

The High School my son goes too doesn't even allow kids to have cell phones on campus. I find this a little overly restrictive & I doubt if its really enforced.

But I agree that during class hours they should be stored in their lockers & not allowed to use them till the day is over. They are supposed to be there to learn not to chat on the phone. In my sons case he doesn't have a phone so it doesn't really matter. I gave him one and he lost it so until he can afford to buy one himself he's out of luck.

I still don't understand how they can actually use them to cheat. Are the classes so large where your kids go that the teacher can't see them using the phone? If a student so much as touches their phone while in class the phone should be confiscated and the student shouldn't get it back till the end of the day. If caught more than twice then make the parent come and get the phone after school. A couple of trips to school to pick up a stupid phone may put a stop to it really quick.

Or install those cell phone frequency killer things at the school and be done with it.

I have a rather small classroom and about 26-30 kids on average. For a kid to hide a cell phone in their hand, under their desk in the back of the room would be very easy, especially during the cooler months with the big hoodie sweatshirts.

They can snap a pic and text it in under 20 seconds. All that takes is one student to ask me a question that requires me to look at his or her paper.

I don't think it is extremely common, but the bigger issue is that most kids I have don't "see what the big deal is" that their phone is out. In the past I have just told them to put it away or I am taking it because I was just too flabbergasted with the lack of understanding how it was inappropriate.

This year I have decided that enough is enough and cell phones will be confiscated on sight. As another poster said, I am lucky and have a supportive administration, so we'll see how it goes.

No great trick to building a detector for that audio frequency. I'm surprised that some enterprising folks haven't done so already and sold one to every teacher concerned with this form of cheating.

Indeed. You have the chance to corner the market!

This is brilliant. Is there an easy way (say off of a website) to generate a tone at 25KHz?

Nothing like a bit of modulation theory to fix these frequency problems.

you would think that would have occurred to me.. being a musician as well as an engineer... off-tone is a disgusting thing to hear.. and oh so easy to recognize... good call!

That is indeed brilliant! I gave you a GA for that one!

If I were still teaching, I would definitely have tried that. I may anyway.

To Shake: That is a very simple thing to do with a 555 chip. A square wave will have lots of harmonics, but a tiny capacitor will get rid of most of them, and most speakers couldn't reproduce them anyway. For that kind of frequency, a piezo transducer would probably be best. If you don't have one available, pick up an old Polaroid camera at a thrift store and use the one that was used for focusing - It's big enough to surpress most of the harmonics.

I have no idea if there are any short- or long-term problems from having that inaudible noise constantly in the background. When I first started teaching computer science (1978), the 15.75 kHz from all the TV monitors gave me headaches. After only a few years I no longer heard it - don't know how much of that was due to just getting older and how much due to 'tuning it out'. (now I hear it all the time, whether there is a TV around or not - tinnitus.)

BTW, don't go much lower than 25kHz. When I was in High School I was tested, and could hear to 23kHz. That was of course before I used shotguns, dynamite, chainsaws, etc. with no ear protection... On the other hand, with the loud music kids listen to today, they may lose that high end earlier.

Dick

Holy smokes. I teach English. Any chance that I can find a 555 chip or a piezo transducer at Radio Shack?

So if I read this correctly, when broadcasting the "Anti-Mosquito", if a student has a phone with the tone go off, when the sound waves hit each other, it will create a pitch that anyone can hear?

Did I interpret that correctly?

That is excellent! And your explanation of how it works (as well as a link sent to me by Jaxy) made perfect sense. Thanks.

This is wild stuff. There is so much more to it than I originally thought (or originally thought that I would understand).

You are right to worry about high sound frequencies. When I was a teen, trying to build a sonar for my robot (in the 80's), I used a 555 with a simple piezo tweeter to go up to about 30KHz. It almost worked... I later used special piezo transducers for much better results at 40KHz.

Meanwhile, my little sister was very annoyed with my experiments. I didn't noticed if the dog was affected as it didn't complain at all.

It is possible that the high frequency noise will eventually irritate the nerves of some students. It might be better to simply use one high frequency sound transducer connected to a detector to detect the ring tone.

The difficulty with the detector: I assume it would be made to respond to a narrow range of frequencies in order to avoid most false alarms. It wouldn't take a smart kid long to switch the ringtone frequency a bit, then the detector might fail. I remember some years back that some burglar alarms emitted a sound somewhere near that frequency; the sensor would have to have provision to ignore same, if present.

In the case of your interference idea, shifting the frequency would still produce an audible difference, so I think that may be the more reliable idea.

Dick

If that was the case (with the detector), it sounds like it would be the internet filtering game all over again. Get a detector, kids alter the tone slightly, a new detector is built, the kids change the tone slightly again.

That type of cat and mouse usually ends poorly for educators because students have a better grip on technology than most of us do.

After I sent that, it occurred to me that maybe we could just install one of those burglar alarms, and the difference tone would be automatic...

I have a friend in the alarm business - I'll ask...

On the other hand, I suspect I can make this little device way cheaper than any sonic burglar alarm.

Out of curiosity... how many things emit a frequency higher than 20kHz? Can they all be found in the classroom? If there aren't many, you could just build a detector that can detect frequencies above a certain range. That way, even if the frequency of the ringtone is changed, the detector will still detect it.

The funny thing is, I don't know how many kids these days can actually hear it. With the prominence of ipods and other mp3 players, it is all to common to hear music blasting in kids/teenagers ears these days. Do you still think they can hear that well? I want to say that they wouldn't be able to - I am assuming that hearing damage occurs more rapidly nowadays thanks to the high decibel ranges of the mp3 players.

Good point! (Bats do)

Apparently enough kids can to have someone start this thread. This is the first I had heard of the 'mosquito ringtone'.

And its not only the iPods etc. Even 30 years ago I always arranged to avoid supervision at dances, because they played the music so loud I couldn't stand it. You're right about the decibel level of those players and probable hearing damage.

Jaxy,

Great question. When I first heard about this last spring, I didn't think it was legit. A kid played it on a his cell phone without telling me and I asked if in class also anyone heard the annoying ringing sound. They couldn't believe I could hear it.

I downloaded it and played it for every class I had without telling anyone that it was on. Most kids immediately reacted, asking me to turn it off because it was annoying.

So, despite iPods and loud music, I think it is still able to be heard by a majority of kids. I am amazed that the mix of really loud rock music and all of the heavy equipment I have worked around has not destroyed my hearing to the point that I can hear it, myself.

Interesting - I can only hear the tone(s) if the volume is way high - it doesn't seem to be a frequency issue for me, and I'm 40-twenty. But it has to be cranked way up!

I think the ringtone should be bannned, because it can get quite annoying in class. The sound is awful. I dont get how putting your phone on vibrate is bad. Kids shouldn't have their phones on in class anyways.