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Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

Posted February 13, 2009 8:12 AM
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Recently, numerous sources have been predicting a downturn in defense contract spending that may require another major bailout in the U.S. Citing a government that spends a $trillion over budget per year, naysayers warn of a crash in the defense sector. They predict lay-offs in the thousands and/or a consolidation of some major contractors. Is this a real possibility? If so, what should be done to avoid such a scenario? What programs do we say 'No' to?

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#1

Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/13/2009 12:26 PM

More importantly, when will the point be reached when borrowing money to finance further bailouts be reached? At some point those who are lending money to the US will simply not have any left.

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#2
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Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/13/2009 3:49 PM

Well, that is already happening. China is shifting its investments away from the US, or is predicted to.

However, no worries! The Treasury Department has already made arrangements to start printing extra money.

On the plus side, only about 25 - 30% of the first trillion dollar spending spree that has passed as I write is actually going to be spent this year. The rest is over the next two or three years.

That isn't exactly what I consider the definition of stimulus, but why care?

Finally, since the war on terror (and all other wars) are just about wrapped up, those of us that are military contractors can begin beating our swords into shovels for 4 milion new hires that will be rebuilding our roads and bridges.

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#3
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Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/13/2009 6:41 PM

Should the government really want to increase revenue they should legalize marijuana.

The plant has a very interesting history in the US,and was actually made illegal because of the Alcohol lobby just after prohibition. Considering it has no worse effect than alcohol, less as viewed from some sectors, ever see someone smoke a joint and get into a fight? Think of the money wasted arresting, prosecuting and detaining people because they choose a joint rather than alcohol. Consider the drop in crime rate if it was legalized and treated the same as alcohol. Since this aspect of the war on drugs hasn't even come close to working and never will the whole thing seems a waste.

maybe the greening of the defense industry - bio-degradable land mines anyone, artillery shells with seed packets attached. The new metal glass is promising and should go a long way to lighten armor, I wonder if military vehicles are subject to CAFE rules?

have a great weekend

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#4
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Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/13/2009 7:54 PM

"Should the government really want to increase revenue they should legalize marijuana."

Yes! And it would be to the the general populous' benefit if that sanctioning body smoked all of it!

On the serious side, given that more and more medical evidence continues to show some rather bad effects from marijuana and after watching several of my friends die in hospitals from various past drug use, no thanks.

If you think health care is expensive now, wait for the results when drugs become a free-for-all.

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#5
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Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/13/2009 8:16 PM

Same can be said for tobacco and alcohol, sometimes it is the lesser of two evils sort of thing. Anything used to excess is not good for the human species.

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#6
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Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/14/2009 5:52 AM

This is an interesting subject and one that is not going to find a rapid solution. The prison system is a massive industry with food service, clothing, drugs (pharma), mental health, guards, administation, legal services etc etc. I guess the tax payer could bail this industry out as well since all of the bail out money is just monopoly money. There is nothing of value behind the money unless you are satified with the good faith of our current government. Maybe the government could jail the elderly for using pain meds. The issue with escaping would be reduced while preserving all these other services.

Maybe we could bail the defense industry out by invading Canada or Mexico. Our troops could come home on long weekends. I liked the idea of using missles with seed packets (not gentically modified).

Our company www.pureandsimpleways.com promotes the use of hemp which is legal as an ingredient in a variety of products. Below is a overview of hemp.

HEMP

HISTORY FACTS

*Hemp has been grown for thousands of years for fiber (textiles and paper) and food. It has been effectively prohibited in the United States since the 1950s.

*George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both grew hemp. Ben Franklin owned a mill that made hemp paper. Jefferson drafted the Declaration of Independence on hemp paper.

*When US sources of "Manila hemp" (not true hemp) was cut off by the Japanese in WWII, the US Army and US Department of Agriculture promoted the "Hemp for Victory" campaign to grow hemp in the US.

*Because of its importance for sails (the word "canvass" is rooted in "cannabis") and rope for ships, hemp was a required crop in the American colonies.

INDUSTRY FACTS

*Henry Ford experimented with hemp to build car bodies. He wanted to build and fuel cars from farm products.

*BMW is experimenting with hemp materials in automobiles as part of an effort to make cars more recyclable.

*Much of the bird seed sold in the US has hemp seed (it's sterilized before importation), the hulls of which contain about 25% protein.

*Hemp oil once greased machines. Most paints, resins, shellacs, and varnishes used to be made out of linseed (from flax) and hemp oils.

*Rudolph Diesel designed his engine to run on hemp oil.

*Kimberly Clark (on the Fortune 500) has a mill in France which produces hemp paper preferred for bibles because it lasts a very long time and doesn't yellow.

*Construction products such as medium density fiber board, oriented strand board, and even beams, studs and posts could be made out of hemp. Because of hemp's long fibers, the products will be stronger and/or lighter than those made from wood.

*The products that can be made from hemp number over 25,000.

SCIENTIFIC FACTS

*Industrial hemp and marijuana are both classified by taxonomists as Cannabis sativa, a species with hundreds of varieties. C. sativa is a member of the mulberry family. Industrial hemp is bred to maximize fiber, seed and/or oil, while marijuana varieties seek to maximize THC (delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol, the primary psychoactive ingredient in marijuana).

*While industrial hemp and marijuana may look somewhat alike to an untrained eye, an easily trained eye can easily distinguish the difference.

*Industrial hemp has a THC content of between 0.05 and 1%. Marijuana has a THC content of 3% to 20%. To receive a standard psychoactive dose would require a person to power-smoke 10-12 hemp cigarettes over an extremely short period of time. The large volume and high temperature of vapor, gas and smoke would be almost impossible for a person to withstand.

*If hemp does pollinate any nearby marijuana, genetically, the result will always be lower-THC marijuana, not higher-THC hemp. If hemp is grown outdoors, marijuana will not be grown close by to avoid producing lower-grade marijuana.

*Hemp fibers are longer, stronger, more absorbent and more mildew-resistant than cotton.

*Fabrics made of at least one-half hemp block the sun's UV rays more effectively than other fabrics.

*Many of the varieties of hemp that were grown in North America have been lost. Seed banks weren't maintained. New genetic breeding will be necessary using both foreign and domestic "ditchweed," strains of hemp that went feral after cultivation ended. Various state national guard units often spend their weekends trying to eradicate this hemp, in the mistaken belief they are helping stop drug use.

*A 1938 Popular Mechanics described hemp as a "New Billion Dollar Crop." That's back when a billion was real money.

*Hemp can be made in to a variety of fabrics, including linen quality.

LEGAL FACTS

*The US Drug Enforcement Agency classifies all C. sativa varieties as "marijuana." While it is theoretically possible to get permission from the government to grow hemp, DEA would require that the field be secured by fence, razor wire, dogs, guards, and lights, making it cost-prohibitive.

*The US State Department must certify each year that a foreign nation is cooperating in the war on drugs. The European Union subsidizes its farmers to grow industrial hemp. Those nations are not on this list, because the State Department can tell the difference between hemp and marijuana.

*Hemp was grown commercially (with increasing governmental interference) in the United States until the 1950s. It was doomed by the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937, which placed an extremely high tax on marijuana and made it effectively impossible to grow industrial hemp. While Congress expressly expected the continued production of industrial hemp, the Federal Bureau of Narcotics lumped industrial hemp with marijuana, as it's successor the US Drug Enforcement Administration, does to this day.

*Over 30 industrialized democracies do distinguish hemp from marijuana. International treaties regarding marijuana make an exception for industrial hemp.

*Canada now again allows the growing of hemp.

ECOLOGY FACTS

* Hemp growers can not hide marijuana plants in their fields. Marijuana is grown widely spaced to maximize leaves. Hemp is grown in tightly-spaced rows to maximize stalk and is usually harvested before it goes to seed.

*Hemp can be made into fine quality paper. The long fibers in hemp allow such paper to be recycled several times more than wood-based paper.

*Because of its low lignin content, hemp can be pulped using less chemicals than with wood. Its natural brightness can obviate the need to use chlorine bleach, which means no extremely toxic dioxin being dumped into streams. A kinder and gentler chemistry using hydrogen peroxide rather than chlorine dixoide is possible with hemp fibers.

*Hemp grows well in a variety of climates and soil types. It is naturally resistant to most pests, precluding the need for pesticides. It grows tightly spaced, out-competing any weeds, so herbicides are not necessary. It also leaves a weed-free field for a following crop.

*Hemp can displace cotton which is usually grown with massive amounts of chemicals harmful to people and the environment. 50% of all the world's pesticides are sprayed on cotton.

*Hemp can displace wood fiber and save forests for watershed, wildlife habitat, recreation and oxygen production, carbon sequestration (reduces global warming), and other values.

*Hemp can yield 3-8 dry tons of fiber per acre. This is four times what an average forest can yield.

HEALTH FACTS

*If one tried to ingest enough industrial hemp to get 'a buzz', it would be the equivalent of taking 2-3 doses of a high-fiber laxative.

*At a volume level of 81%, hemp oil is the richest known source of polyunsaturated essential fatty acids (the "good" fats). It's quite high in some essential amino acids, including gamma linoleic acid (GLA), a very rare nutrient also found in mother's milk.

*While the original "gruel" was made of hemp seed meal, hemp oil and seed can be made into tasty and nutritional products.

HEMP BODY CARE BENEFITS

Hemp seed oil is one of the world's richest sources of polyunsaturated fats, including both of the essential fatty acids (Omega 3 and Omega 6) and GLA (gamma Linolenic acid), which make it an excellent natural emollient and moisturizer. Body care products containing hemp seed oil can reduce skin discomfort by soothing & restoring dry or damaged skin and increasing the natural moisture retention capacity. With regular use, body care products containing hemp seed oil can help slow down the effects of skin aging and leave the skin smooth, soft and moisturized. In hair care products, hemp seed oil imparts gloss and manageability to hair, bringing relief from dry scalp or hair damage by blow-dryer heat, chemical perms, coloring or sunlight. Pure & Simple Ways . is a supplier of unrefined hemp seed oil.

To better understand the benefits of essential fatty acids and hemp seed oil to our skin, let's look at the skin's structure and numerous functions. The skin acts not only as a sensory organ and temperature control, it also has important barrier functions protecting the body from excessive water loss and from penetration of foreign substances and pathogens such as bacteria and viruses. A major function of body care products is to enhance, preserve and restore this barrier.

The health of our skin depends largely on the presence and retention of water. Moisture retention is mostly provided by the epidermis - the top-most and thinnest layer of the skin. The actual "vapor barrier" is the stratum corneum, the outer layer of the epidermis. It is composed of, and continually rebuilt from, dying and dead cells that gradually flake off the skin surface. These cells are held together - just like bricks cemented by mortar - by lipids (fat like substances including sterols, free fatty acids and ceramides).

The weakening or failure of this natural barrier leads to dry skin. The process is promoted by sun, dry air, excessive use of soaps, shower gels or other detergents, and organic solvents with a strong degreasing action. The slowdown of cell metabolism with age or diabetes is another contributor. All of these factors result in changes in the lipid composition of the epidermis and reduced moisture retention capability. The skin becomes thinner, facilitating increased water loss. The result is dry, brittle skin with a rough and unpleasant feel. A ceramide that is of critical importance to the moisture control of the skin is made from the Omega 6 - Linoleic acid. Clinical studies have shown that dry skin defects such as scaling or cracking can be reversed by skin care products containing Omega 6 fatty acids. The anti-inflammatory properties of essential fatty acids can further aid in the healing of minor skin abrasions and acne. A deficiency in Omega 6 fatty acids is also associated with eczema and psoriasis due to the regulation of water loss through the skin.

The metabolic slowdown associated with aging also leads to dry skin conditions. Slower metabolism and growth of cells in the basal layer of the epidermis causes a decline of ceramide content. Both contribute to the formation of wrinkles and overall skin aging. The application of Omega 6 fatty acids in body care products partially compensate for the lower ceramide levels in the skin and the resulting aging effects.

EFA-rich oils are becoming increasingly popular in massage therapy due to their ability to penetrate and be absorbed into the skin. Thus, EFA-rich hemp seed oil makes an excellent ingredient for massage oils in addition to hand & body lotions, moisturizing creams and lip balms.

A major consumer concern, with respect to skin sensitivity or allergic reaction to hemp seed oil, has not proven to be a problem to date

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#7
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Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/14/2009 9:43 AM

Wow! Amazing writeup! Thanks for all the information, which is fascinating things I did not know.

Now, that begs the question, could hemp be used to build the next space elevator? Sorry, just had to ask.

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#8
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Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/14/2009 10:42 AM

Great write up, even though I did not check all your facts, you seemed to hit on the ones I did know plus introduce me to some new one.

Question, and I have been thinking about this for a long time.

If in fact hemp is so a viable a crop (which it is). Why is it not a more popular cash crop to raise? Other than governmental interference, if money is to be made, industry usually would imfluence $ our lawmakers.

phoenix911

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#9
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Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/14/2009 11:33 AM

It's all in the name and the hangover from the hippie generation of the 60s and 70s.

Hemp is all over the place up here in Canada, it grows wild in many regions. Around Ottawa we also have wild cannabis, government tried to grow some for research, birds ate the seeds and flew away, seeds passed through their system, and there you have it.

Back to hemp, having been lumped in with cannabis for so long, most political types can no longer distinguish one from the other, the names have become interchangeable. Law enforcement of course wants it protect it's ability to make 'big news worthy' arrests and lobby quite strongly to maintain the status quo.

The hemp plant might have a chance with the new administration, since it seems to be open to real science rather than hype from lobbyists.

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#11
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Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/14/2009 6:15 PM

Every summer when I'm in Europe, I pick up a few hemp T-shirts. They are the best. Very soft, and they last 10 times longer than a cotton T.

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Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/14/2009 5:13 PM

Weapons of Mass destruction programs may well be programs we ought to say no to. As far as the thread diversion discussing Hemp and pot, well we would be safer if pot was legal between Afghanistan and the Netherlands. Separating weapons smugglers from drug smugglers would simply make it easier to win the war on terror. To legalize pot would require that the FAA approve a time between joint and joystick as safe for commercial pilots same as 24 from bottle to throttle. First line is on topic. Second line is dubious.

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#12

Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/15/2009 2:20 AM

You may need the new offensive line array...

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#13

Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/17/2009 4:37 PM

Let's see, we spend more on defense than the rest of the world combined : http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm

and yet we need to bail them out? Something is wrong with this picture.

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#14
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Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/17/2009 5:52 PM

This threat of a lessening of need for weapons resulting in layoffs would auger the terrifying prospect of less war. Conversely it would indicate that much of the economy was dependent on war. Certainly the US Medical system will have plenty of work for years to come as a result of the current wars that have maimed so many. Failed morality and wasted courage of the US soldiers in Iraq now puts the US in real jeopardy when it is recognized that the US, and the rest of the Western World really had a beef with non state threats living in Afghanistan. Of US Services, it is a real shame that the United States Constabulary Service was disbanded, for it is very much needed in Iraq, and Afghanistan. I've learned weird things in the course of my work as a writer. I worked on the cartoon The Inspector Gadget show, which caused me to learn all about Interpol for instance. Great institution. Peace means Police! The Drug War of the US has been exported. Driveby shootings in LA and Brooklyn look like driveby bombings to me. Hippies didn't want to go to war and avoided the draft, so an all volunteer army was created. "We'll leave you out of it, and further keep you out of it." -Smoke a joint and you're ineligible to serve. Tell us you're queer, and we'll kick you out. It is an honor to serve your country, if your country is honorable. It is all the little things you do in a day or a year, or a life that make more difference than the one big thing you might do, or thought about doing. The best thing that could happen now in the world would be the reinstatement of the draft, and the abandonment of the all volunteer army in the US. It has become the equivalent of a mercenary army controlled by the Military Industrial Complex as General and President warned would be our downfall.

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#15
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Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/17/2009 6:04 PM

The draft might just go a long way to reduce the crime rate, if all those want-to-be tough guys actually found out what the world was like and got some real discipline in their lives they would be better off for it. The draft would also get those silly commercials off the TV and who can the forces afford to sponsor race cars?

That sponsorship is awarded via very high paid PR firms, waste of money?

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#16
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Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/21/2009 1:38 PM

Goshhhh! I believe defense industry are been bailout since the begining of the nations history all over the world, absolutly.

Fire it Up,

MC

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#17
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Re: Is a Defense Industry Bailout Next?

02/21/2009 1:47 PM

Sad but true, seems to always be some whacked out nutcase who wants the next guy to follow his ideals,or way of doing things...

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