Stupidity is the Mother of Invention?

So the only real change will be the type of cable to each house.....if I understood you correctly......thats not really much....

There is not even a real difference in the cable to the house. It's Hot-Hot-Neutral, designed for 150-250 amps (depending on location and age of the building, older to 'almost modern' houses were wired for 100 amp service, 'newer' houses get wired for 200 amp service, to accommodate all the electrical gizmos jammed into it.)

A "neutral" only, not a "grounded-neutral" coming into the house main distribution box?

Or is the neutral grounded in that first box in the house itself?

The "Neutral" gets grounded at the breaker panel. After the panel we have the current-carrying neutral, and the 'only takes current if there is a fault' 'earth ground⁽¹⁾' wire/metal conduit.

The earth ground is only supposed to be carrying current for the split second before the breaker trips, and the earth ground is NOT connected to the neutral inside the equipment.

Notes:

1. In the US, there are three types of 'ground,' Earth Ground, a bonded connection to the Grounding Stake or the cold water line of a building; Chassis Ground, a bonded connection to the outer metal shell of an enclosure; and Signal Ground, a defined point of 'zero volts' from which other measurements are taken. Chassis Ground is usually bonded to Earth Ground, but there are situations where this does not happen, such as vehicles, or portable generators/equipment. Signal Ground typically 'floats,' as connections from Signal Ground to Chassis or Earth Ground could cause unwanted current to flow in or out of the circuit, interferring with normal operation (aka Ground Loop Current)
2. I know in Europe the Earth Ground is known as Protective Earth, or PE, and the grounding can occur outside the building, causing the service feed to be described as PE-N (Protective Earth-Neutral), where the PE and N lines need to be separated into individual branches after the service entry point. What are the European versions of Chassis Ground and Signal Ground?
   

You asked:-

What are the European versions of Chassis Ground and Signal Ground?

They are the same as far as I am aware, though as after the RN I only worked for US companies, I may be wrong!!!

We would have problems from the kitchen clock being wired to the wrong phases and running backwards. I just can't see a 20HP induction motor being used to drive a clock anyway.

The only way this could happen is that some idiot somehow/someway wired in the wrong outlet or receptical.

"some idiot"....was found sizzling in his electrified backyard BBQ today, according to sources of NewsChannel 15. KXYZ somwhere in the silly United Skates of Amurka.

Did he/she survive?

I do feel that a properly installed GFI would have prevented that.....surely, a BBQ outside needs to be considered a "wet" area too, don't you think? Even a simple plug in GFI would have helped....

You sir, have been spoofed by me on this one. No such event happened, but it very closely resembles the Texan that stated, "Hold my beer and watch this!"

"Some idiots" playing with BBQ and 3 phase electrical systems simultaneously, while drinking beer, could be fodder for a new TV series called, "Don't Try This At Home."

I try and "err" on the side of both safety and good manners.......

Salute! I have learned a little bit more (maybe) about electrical distribution here in the Estados Unidos, and also in EU.

I remind us all of the times when Edison and Westinghouse were at loggerheads over Alternating Current vs. Direct Current. This is after Tesla was fired by Edison for trying to convince him of the utility of AC, and some other trumped up bologna, so Edison could avoid paying Mr. Tesla what he was due.

Edison (the cruel bastard that he actually was), came up with a plan to electrocute and elephant, which some have claimed was part of the Current Wars, but which was mainly due to the park owners (who had lost control of the elephant on several occasions, with loss of life), but rather than hold these irresponsible men accountable, and electrocute them, they chose the defenseless elephant (Topsy had been wildly mishandled, and that is a true statement).

Electrocution of Topsy https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/2/2b/Edison_-_Electrocuting_an_Elephant.ogv/Edison_-_Electrocuting_an_Elephant.ogv.360p.webm (Sorry, link no longer available.)

If anyone can watch this film of Topsy being murdered (animals have rights too), and not be completely outraged, I would like to know, because I seriously want to avoid you in the future, otherwise I might not be able to control myself in your presence.

Electrocution was never a "humane" way to euthanize people or elephants. Plain and simple. Death itself is the most evil thing on this earth, and when it is perpetrated for the sole purpose of publicity, that is the highest evil that can ever exist.

Getting back on topic to AC vs. DC, I always thought AC/DC was a little over the top as a band, but DC at enormously high potential is a viable and existing way to transmit electrical power over vast distances, as the currents are kept small, and resistive losses of power are actually less than the power losses for high tension AC over the same distance due to the accumulation of line capacitance to ground.

"but DC at enormously high potential is a viable and existing way to transmit electrical power over vast distances, as the currents are kept small,"

However, that would produce very strong non-alternating magnetic fields along the lines, causing the 'supply' and the 'return' lines to repel each other very strongly, tearing one or both off the pole.

Remember, three-phase at 60Hz has 120 'resting points' per second on each line, and no two lines 'peak' at the same time, so the electromechanical stresses are lessened, and spaced out with recovery periods.

I was simply stating the fact that in Southern California, recent (within the last 30 years) use of high tension DC has been already proven, and works extremely well.

For more information search "Path 27".

DC power transmission is also used between different power grids.

There is also another problem with DC, the frequency of the commutation caused havoc with sensitive radar and radio signals. Don't ask me what it was, I haven't a clue anymore.....

All RN ships had small alternators to provide AC for the masthead lighting for that reason, on DC ships. I would bet that the US Navy did the same....

That was one of the reason that NATO went AC in the 50's, approximately......

It was the 'make-break' commutation itself that was causing the RF interference. turning DC on or off like that creates a 'square wave' style edge, which is a huge 'splotch' over the entire RF spectrum.

Think of it like being at a dinner party, with all the polite conversations going on around the room, then someone jumps on a 'whoopie cushion' two meters across and a meter high, that loud, rude noise cuts across all conversations, drowning out everything in the room. Sharp DC transitions are the 'disgusting wet farts' of the RF bands.

Small currents, small magnetic fields. Electric fields at 705 kV, that's different.

Your comments about Edison are fully justified, we would call him an A******E nowadays.....

But a little ribald humor almost never hurts . . . .

I wanted to give you a "GA" for that, as it made me chuckle a bit more than usual. I removed one "OT".

Now I come to think of it I have a 3-ph & N supply. I do not have any 3-ph equipment so forgot all about it. It is in my garage (actually a transport workshop).

I hardly use it, so I let the chap next door use it for storing and maintaining his vintage fire engine.....

Let me see.....the DB is near the window of the cellar. Must not be much of a vista. Also the wiring diagram from this DB to the window is what? One phase for each of the sides and top of the metal window frame, and phase neutral on the bottom, left ground wire not attached, so that burglar provides ground connection?

Yup!!

DB is short for "dumbbutt", right?

I thought it was database?

Distribution Board

LOL!!

It could be! I did not know this acronym about 10 days ago!!

Plumber: I found your leak mam.... seems like some one cut out a 3" section of your 1/2" copper water supply line.

"Run out of fuses?"

I've even run out of solid neutrals....I had to use hollow ones.

As to the pic with copper tubing replacing fuses, those must be the ball park copper tubings, as one is already "plumping up".

Store Attendant: "May I help your?"

Customer: "Yes, Where do you keep the 200A Copper Tubing?"

Very bad! They should have greased the wire to prevent corrosion between the 3 types of metal. -- JHF

In my first engineering job, I was asked to survey a nursing home near Lebanon, Pa for required code up grades to the electrical and signal system. The plain folk, Mennonite old order, ran it, and hired from their own to do the various tasks, such as maintenance and wiring. Now the old order Mennonite at that time were just like the Amish - if it had wires, it didn't come into your house. The nursing home had to meet state codes to be open, so electrical appliances and machines were there. So, it isn't too difficult to imagine what electrical experience their maintenance man had.

He was quite clever, this simple man. He needed "2" phase (high voltage single phase) or 3 phase electricity for a new machine, well, he just kept checking various 120V circuits until he found 2 or 3 that gave the 240 required. And not once, but basically on every 240 V appliance that had been added, this is what he did. When I took the cover off the first lighting and receptacle panel, I actually found wire insulation sagging from over heating of circuits and phase unbalance. Many of the breakers were apparently increased in ratings from what they began as many years earlier. Apparently if he put too much load on one, he would just get the next bigger size and leave the wiring as it was. I haven't seen very many 50A circuits for lighting or convenience outlets in my time, but they were here, with AWG #12 run from them.

I got out of there quickly and my company, which was not afraid to stick it to an electrical contractor, had the job bid, as a simple rewiring job with the addition of some receptacles, new lighting, and fire alarm system, with no mention of the many tapped circuits and no drawings of how they were currently attached to where ever they were, because this would have been way too time consuming. (he had tapped off receptacles, lights, whatever) The low bidder actually called me directly to let me know how pleased he was the first panel he opened. The phone nearly melted in my hand. My company had some very tight specifications that stuck the problem on the contractor.

That contractor has to be more thorough, but at what may appear to be a simply job without taking covers off is understandable... But by 'Sticking it' others before they are left holding the bag, because they made the same mistake. There are other ways of handling it.

I worked for a company like this, and left. They are disgusting and I stay away from them.

There! Fixed that fer Ya!

Have you seen this?

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=111899.0