Hobbiest PCB maker?

I normally make them myself....

Just have a bubble etch tank a UV exposure box etc.... and a few hours you can easily churn out 20 small pcbs at very little cost...

John.

Very little cost except the cost of the etch tank, chemicals, UV exposure box, raw boards, boards saw, hazmat suit, etc.

Nope - I don't want any of that in my kitchen.

Cost of equipment can be home made so very little....

Chemicals and pretreated board low cost...

Hazmat suit??? are you kidding me? You did say hobbiest pcb manufacture didn't you? The only stuff worth bothering about as far as hazard is concerned is getting the ferric chloride stains out of your clothes...

If you don't want any of that in your kitchen then you're not talking about a hobby type solution are you?

Get real - A hobby is a hobby just like mixing up some nitro in the kitchen sink!!!

John.

In Germany Ferric Chloride has been banned for years because it is hazardous waste and people tend to tip it away of down the sink!!! Poisoning millions of gallons of water.....I am told!

I forget the name of the chemical we had to use, cold it will develope UV board images, hot it will take off the copper.

As he is looking for someone to do the job, I will not bother searching out the name of the chemical if it is not required.....

If he is clever, he will make a foil for one pcb that has as many as possible of the 20 (plus spares?) on it, so he will only pay the single price each time for many PCBs. He can cut them out himself later....for that its not worth doing the complete job yourself...

I've thought about putting them all on a few boards and cutting them myself. Then, it's the cost of additional, but smaller, boards vs. the cost of an appropriate blade for my chop saw. It's about a wash.

why not use this as an etchant: 1 part muriatic acid and 3 parts hydrogen peroxide

works great, and easy to neutralize.

I believe that is 30 percent

The UV exposure box can be as simple as a pad of paper and the Sun. Flip up the covering pages in the Sun, count, them drop the pages. All the stuff you need is available at your local big electronics/hobby store.

Any board shop is going to charge you a butt-load of cash for what they will call a prototype!!!

You can search Globalspec for pcb fabrication services and you will have a list of companies that can give you a quote.

Since you are are hobbyist and you only need 20 boards you might try etching your own. I am providing a link but you can find many if you do a search. All you really need is to print your mask with a laser printer on some glossy photo paper for an inkjet. The ink doesn't adhere to the paper that well, so you can transfer the mask to your pcb board with a clothe iron. You then soak the board and paper in water to cleanly remove the paper, and etch it with the stuff you can buy in radio shack. I have done this myself and gotten quite good results. It does take some work but for the small amount of boards you want, it may be the cheapest way.

Call me lazy, but I don't etch my own boards anymore. I used to do it a million years ago in high school. Printing, transferring, etching, cleaning, drilling, plating - it would be less work and cheaper just to hand wire my circuits on perf board. I'm just looking for a reasonably priced board maker.

You might try www.handwireboards.com

easy way to follow connections and assemble hand wired circuits

tim

Does the company you work for or any company you know have a pcb supplier?...If so you may be able to approach them to do it at cost as a favour? (I've pulled this stunt before, as I was putting business their way...problem is margins are so tight these days...)

Oh, yes - we have plenty of good PCB suppliers here at NASA. I just don't want to pay $1000 a board...

This isn't your tax money I'm spending!!!

(Actually it is, since you pay my salary, but still...)

Stick a NASA part number on it...go on you know you want to...

We use a CNC router to cut out development PCB's. Very cheap. (price of the machine excluded).

If you are a DIY fan consider building your own.

What is required is a old manual engraver (the one's working with a pantograph) there should be a few around that has been replaced already. and fit a old pen plotter to it.

Pen plotters are also scraped at a high rate. You will even get them delivered free of charge as soon as somebody know you are looking for it.

Max size of boards about 100x120mm

Hi i was thinking of using a dremel but the hardest part is building the chassis or else i woud be away with the project i badly need a cnc router for cutting out model aircraft

Regards John M

Express PCB. http://www.expresspcb.com/

Thanks

I've seen their ad in Nuts & Volts. Have you actually used them?

Have you tried Toner Transfer System? www.dynaart.com. You print a reversed copy of the circuit using a laser printer (or a laser copier in a pinch) on a special paper. Iron it on to the blank PCB, then soak it in water; the paper floats off. At this point I usually have to do just a bit of touch-up with thinned fingernail polish. Then etch. The plastic toner protects the copper during etch. you clean the toner off with acetone later.

The big limitation is no plated-through holes. I'm usually able to design the board so that resistor or cap leads are soldered both on top and bottom for the feed-throughs.

Its hardly perfect, but fast and cheap.

DIY...

The simplest way: draw the circuit with an alcoholic pen.

The most professional: print the circuit to a transfer foil and iron it to the PCB panel.

In both case you can etch it with ferrichloride and cover with rosin solved in alcohol

These people do the job on-line, never used them so can't comment on quality.

Thanks - I'll check them out.

Ever heard of Veroboard? Tendys in Cranes Farm Road chucked a load of it out last week. Damn. Missed it. Wished you'd have said.

Bhankiii, in Germany we have companies like pcb-pool.com for small series of pcbs - you surely have comparable companies too. I looked at the prices and they take 3,80 EUR (thats about 5,30 USD) for each of your 20 pieces 1*4 inch, 2-sided FR4, 35µm Cu, solder-stop-resist, drilled, thru-holed and in any shape you want, available in 8 working days. This price alone is worth keeping my wife from looking over my shoulder seeing what I`m pouring out in our kitchen.

Regards Uwe

Thanks - that's the price range I'm looking for.

Did You Try?

www.4pcb.com

Just 4 you, more detail

you can get it for 33x3=$99+Uncle Sam

www.4pcb.com

Full Spec 2-Layer Designs
Only $33 Each!

To Order Now , Upload Your Zipped Files

Go to Upload Page!

$33 EACH SPECIFICATIONS

• Min qty 3
• Lead time 5 days
• 2-layers, FR-4, 0.062",
1 oz cu plate
• Lead free solder finish
• Min. 0.006" line/space
• Min. 0.015" hole size
• All holes plated
• Green LPI mask

• White legend (1 or 2 sides)
• 1 part number per order
(extra $50 charge for multiple parts

or step & repeat applies)
• Max size 60 sq. inches
• No slots (or overlapping drill hits)
• No internal routing or scoring
(including mouse bites)
• Overall dimensions individually routed

Credit Card orders only please.

Thanks - I have been looking at them.

Try these guys, http://www.sunstone.com/?WT.mc_id=pigbs10014 Have on-line quotation. Based out of Mulino, CA

Hi bhankiii.

Try this:

http://www.expresspcb.com/

Good luck!

Bhankiii,

Others have already mentioned these two, but since I've used them both, thought I would reiterate.

www.barebonespcb.com is the proto website for 4pcb.com

www.sunstone.com has proto pricing similar to 4pcb.

You'll get a better deal if you can array up your board, then separate them yourself before building.

Tom

Thanks - I've been looking at barebonespcb. good to get a testimonial. What do you use to cut your boards? I have a nice chop saw, but a fine pitch blade is a little expensive. How about a jig saw?

I use a small hand shear we have in our shop here at work, it's quick and clean. If I didn't have access to that, I'd probably use a hacksaw or a cut-off wheel in my Dremel tool. I suppose a jig-saw would work as long as the blade was a fine-tooth. For the size of the board you described, the hack saw would give a bit more control. Of course, all of this assumes a rectangular board shape, anything different adds a bit of complexity.

ooh - I just remembered we have a huge mechanical shop downstairs where I work. I bet they have a shearing thingy I could use.

I just noticed that I misspelled hobbyist. That's a sure sign of an amateur.

I use sunstone.com....Good price...quick turn....

I would recommend them for proto's

http://www.titanpcb.com/

Have you used them before?

http://www.expresspcb.com/

Huh! I had no idea. Thank you!!!

Like Vermin, I had no idea it could be done so cheaply!

Dick

You might also look at FAR Circuits. They do a lot of work for amateur radio operators and other electronic hobbyists.

THANKS GUYS!!

I decided on expresspcb, mainly since they have free CAD s/w. They'll do 20 boards for about $135, which is cheap enough for me.

I did the schematic and layout this weekend, and ordered all the parts. As soon as the parts get in I'll do one more test board and then order my PCBs.

Thanks again.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

I can't recommend a board house, but how much time do you have?

I did some prototype boards a couple of years ago by printing the artwork using a laser printer on clear media, ironing the artwork onto the blank board, and then etching. You don't get nickel plating, and doing double sided, you have to be quite careful about registration from one side to the other, and the only way to get feedthroughs is to drill it and put a jumper wire through then solder it on both sides.

If you are interested in playing around with this method, I will dig in the archives and see if I can get some web sites for you. I do know I got most of the info via Google back then.

We have a board house which is about 30 miles away which I would use if need be, but ONLY because they are local, and I could interface with them one on one.

On the boards mentioned above, I did a silkscreen using the same method, and ironed IT to the top side of the boards. I don't know how this would work with double sided though.

Sincerely

Bill

Sounds like the process I described in post#11, except for the clear media. In the Toner Transfer System, the paper has a water-soluble coating, so the paper floats off after soaking in water. Clear media implies plastic, which is normally not porous and might melt if it gets too hot. How did you separate the media from the board and toner after ironing?

Dick

You are right... Now that I think about it, it was a photo paper... and the best I found came from Staples (their house brand). I don't have the stock number handy anymore though.

The link below might work as a start for anyone wanting to do their own PC boards.

http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=printed+circuit+board+etching&start=20&

Thanks Bill, but as I discussed above, I'm not up for a home brew solution. The $135 I'm paying for my 20 boards is well worth the time I'll save - since I don't have much these days.

spark fun and gold phoenix:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php

http://www.goldphoenixpcb.biz/special_price.php

Both are great with great price.