Personal Transportation - Out of the Box Thinking

There used to be something around called a "gyrocopter", if I remember rightly. Single passenger, powered by Briggs & Straton, no license required to fly it if you build it yourself...Open air (sorry, no convertible models).

Greetings All,

lots of good comments, Wish Id seen this sooner. Many of the problems with thiking out of the box is that politicians and govt has put so many restrictions on it. If you have ever build a car from scratch in CA and tried to get it licenced you know what Im talking about.

If I were let loose, without restrictions, with the goal of better transportation, without any considerations for peoples asthetic opinions, then I would have only a few basic requirments. 1) Fuel economy (gas or elec), aerodynamics and lightness. 2) enough performance to be safe (0-60 in 6sec., 100mph top speed). 3) Comfort

These requirements can be filled with a tandem seated vehicle for 2 or 3 people, because of CA's restrictions I've had to go with a two wheel in front and one in rear configuration.

This could actually be built for under $5k, using off the shelf parts.

spacecannon-

Any details of your concept that can be shared without violating any IP concerns? Sounds quite interesting, although your top end speed scares me a bit...

California won't let you you with one wheel in front and two in the rear? What about a side-car style, two wheels on one side and one on the other?

Spacecannon -- 0-60mph in 6 seconds and 100 mph may be your design reqirements and that's fine. But please don't try to pass off this level of performance as having anything to do with safety except insofar as it may create a hazard in the hands of an irresponsible or incompetent driver. The highest performance level of any of my everyday drivers for the last 40 years was a 64 Plymouth Valiant station wagon with a 225 slant 6 that would pull the east side of Tioga Pass to 10,000 feet in top gear carrying a load of kids and camping gear. (if that gives any hint to it's power to weight ratio) In that period (450,000 miles)the only accident I had that was any way my fault was a scratched bumper caused by my own inattention in a yield lane.

All that aside, since it's been quite a few years since I built the hot rod sitting in my garage I'd really like to hear you elaborate on the problems associated with getting a homebuilt 4 wheel vehicle its first time California registration. It's been some 30 years since I went through a similar exercise and since then there has been a crackdown on bogus registrations of professionally built street rods as well as a lot tighter emmission regs.

This registration issue will vary among the states; but it can be a serious hurdle, especially for the first time car builder looking to experiment with green technology. I realize such folks often don't have a good grasp of exactly what is required for safety and emmission compliance and need some specific guidance best before their first presentation to a DMV referree. What can you tell us about your experience so far?

Ed Weldon

I thought 0-60 in 6 sec. was slow with a 100mph top end. We could make it slower but merging on the CA freeway becomes hazardous.

My experience with the DMV in CA starts with "happy lawful compliance" as a youth and ends with "subterfuge and tecnically fraud", which i wont go into, but CA is not friendly so I gave up on it a long time ago.

Hmmm........ 0-60 in 6 seconds. I have to respect your Southern California experience. We have one place up here like that, the 880 corridor between San Jose and Oakland. I have to admit in that stretch my little 4 cyl Tacoma is pedal to the metal merging out there. It's probably good for 40 to 60 in maybe 6 seconds but has too much factory cam to get off the line fast even with the automatic tranny. I did once in a moment of slightly reckless experimentation get the Tacoma up to an indicated 95 or so on I5. Took a while though.

Ed Weldon

Irresponsible and/or incompetent drivers should be banned from the roadways as a first step in reducing our emissions.

If we required people to actually demonstrate more skill than being able to navigate a parking lot most of the drivers on the road today would cease driving and our emissions would drop dramatically.

I won't go into too much of this rant here, since we've already been down that road in another thread. I will simply say that driving is a privilege not a right and until we start treating it that way we can expect our roadways to be overflowing with 'statistic makers'.

If you have ever build a car from scratch in CA and tried to get it licenced you know what Im talking about.

In Wisconsin we're able to get around that by licensing it as a hobbyist

Phoenix --- Here's the link to the Wisconsin Hobbyist Registration Application.

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/forms/mv2388.pdf

Looks like there has to be a connection to a 20 year old vehicle, either in the basic chassis or the outward form. I can see some possible loopholes; but the unsophisticated experimenter trying to get road registration for his creation with an all new aerodynamic body and minimum vehicle weight would be pretty much left out in the cold unless he followed motorcycle design practice.

An example of such a loser would be the following: The UC Davis and 2nd place winner in the 1993 Ford Motor company sponsored hybrid vehicle national competition for the class of complete newly constructed designs. (this is a project my son, David, worked on as an engineering student at Davis). The vehicle was a aluminum framed two seater with a fully enclosed low drag coefficient composite body that weighed 1600 pounds street ready with batteries. It had prototype 25 hp Briggs and Stratton high efficiency 4 stroke gasoline engine and a parallel drive train setup (and controls) for the electric motor/generator. I don't have the performance data on it; but David described the low speed performance on a driving course as pretty exciting.

The hybrid I described is the kind of vehicle that might be most attractive to the experienced mechanic or engineer to build. These are the very folks who are capable of producing significant prototypes but lack the resources to do their development work and testing anywhere but the public highways.

Ed Weldon

My brother and nephew were building hobby vehicles as a project or hobby......one of which was a low rider tow truck that had a compulation of a GMC 1 ton truck Cab and motor and partial drive train, Chevorlet Chassis?., Ford (4WD)I think, Gleaner Combine (gas tank and running lights), John Deere Combine I think more working/running lights)?. Rear axle is up in the air, I can't remember.

can't remember I think thats the approx. origins..........real work of art. saying sarcasticly...they take it in parades and family outtings.

Its interesting about the vehicle prototype, It seems to me as I remember it, Its easier to build a prototype or home built airplane.

p911

Hi Velisj,

I think your students might be interested in discussing this subject.

Chris