Whadda Ya Mean Set the Clocks Up an Hour?

Good Joke, but as usual, totally wrong on two counts (fish in a barrel again and again!! Sigh!):-

1) DST has not yet started here in Europe!!!! We are still on winter time. You probably changed on the 8th March, we change on the 29th, not before...So you may have the scrambled brain cells from DST, not me either way!!!

2) I like getting up early, earlier is even better, ask my Pooch!! Though she sometimes takes longer to get up than I do!

I LOVE DST, IT'S FOR REAL MEN AND WOMEN WITH CHARACTER!!!!

Lyn, I have to give you a compliment, you never get tired of being wrong again and again and again and again!!!

Do you do it on purpose? It seems so!!!!

Thank God for that.....

I simply could not believe it before.

It looks like those Guys with problems need an education.

That follows what little guidelines I know about.....(not my area of expertise!) I use the equipment, I don't install or design it!!!

That fits in with my limited knowledge here....Thanks for replying so rapidly....

But our friend says the opposite (assuming I understood him correctly), surely that cannot be "code" allowed?

Also, swapping the caps of a few buttons is often possible....not on starters here as they are often of a different physical design, maybe for "feel" in the dark or something, but my house circuit breakers have no colours anyway....its a switch up for on, down for off. I will have a look later to check....

It looks like we both misunderstood Phys.

I have designed and built a number of machine control panels (and the machines controlled by them), but they have all been "onesy-twosy" custom machines for use either within our company or one of our associate companies, so I've never had to pay attention to any code; only to safety and ergonomics. I'm quite familiar with relays that show a red area when energized, but if I recall correctly, the ones I've used show black when not energized.

Our home and industrial panel circuit breakers are not color coded, and very commonly are in two vertical rows, with the source in the center. The handles move left and right, rather than up and down, and towards the center is ON, and away from center is OFF. The switches do have the words On and OFF embossed on the handles, but at my age I usually can't read them unless the light is just right (a rare occurrence)...

I definitely prefer your "up for On" ergonomics, and have been known many a time to walk to the other end of a hallway to turn off the light, just so both switches would be in the down position when off. I doubt if anyone has ever noticed...

I can't give you any statistics, and i doubt they would show anything meaningful anyway. Where i live, 32degS Western Australia, we have tried DS 6 times. After 4 of these trials a referendum was held and it was thrown out by the people on each occasion. The last 'trial' was pushed on us by the government and it ran for 3 years so we could get used to it. The population was almost 50/50 with single people for it and those with young children against it.

I am glad that it has finally been put to bed as the 'extra' time in the evening could not be used by me ( skin cancer ) whereas the 'extra' time in the morning with no dst, could.

Jim

You know my position. I generally agree with most of your last post, except regarding the "cost". It costs time and money to change all the clocks twice a year. It costs nothing to leave them alone!

I do understand that it does cost money to change laws, but if you could take away the lobbyists and go with the votes of the people, it should cost very little.

It will cost millions....

It will need to be paid for by each and every country who wants to do the change.....I certainly don't want my taxes wasted for that.....

A few million is all you say. Here take this.

Keep the change.

What does it cost under the current system?

I spend well over an hour each year (over half an hour twice a year) resetting clocks in just my house and car. There are at least 50.000,000 households in the US, not to mention all the businesses and industries. If I value my time at just $20 an hour, we are talking about a couple of Billion dollars wasted every year changing clocks. Even if the election cost a billion dollars once, it would save (assuming the election did decide to eliminate DST) those Billions of dollars ever year after that.

You should buy only clocks that set themselves via a radio time signal....most, but not all of mine do this.....some do it without the radio signal, they are just intelligent!

I have somewhere in the workshop a pendulum clock that is also corrected by the radio time signal....they are not expensive....

I have enough of the radio controlled ones, that they remind me to change the others, but I do it for free!!

So I don't waste my money as you appear to!!

I have and use clocks that are anywhere from a few months old to over a century old, and my wife would be extremely irate if I didn't keep those old ones going.

Of course our computer and iPhone clocks are reset automatically, but those are only 4 of the 16 or so clocks in our house. There are several others that I need to clean and lubricate, that could easily bring the total to or over 20. I didn't set clocks for anyone else this year, but since I'm well known for fixing things I have been asked to help others set theirs fairly commonly in the past.

Of course many people have fewer clocks, but it is hardly rare to find homes with more.

I do it for free also; I don't waste money directly, but my time is valuable.

Thats a hobby.......!!!

What's a hobby? Keeping my wife off my back?

I do have to admit that I appreciate well-made mechanisms, and enjoy keeping old ones operating. This is true both for mechanical and electronic devices...

You wrote:-

What's a hobby? Keeping my wife off my back?

I do have to admit that I appreciate well-made mechanisms, and enjoy keeping old ones operating. This is true both for mechanical and electronic devices...

...and "well made female" are also "devices"?

I would say, after my total of one failed marriage and one still going, that is the most COMPELLING REASON of all......don't you agree.....??

D.S.T. = Divorce Sucks Too? (But not as often as a girlfriend!!!)

This is probably a waste of time, since you signed off, but:

Clock List
1 Bath 1 Wall clock Retirement gift 1
2 Bath 2 Wall clock
3 Bedroom 1 Clock radio
4 Bedroom 2 Alarm clock
5 Bedroom 3 Alarm clock
6 Hall Wall clock Retirement gift 2
7 Hall Thermostat
8 Kitchen Wall clock Wedding gift
9 Kitchen Oven Timer
10 Kitchen Coffee maker
11 Kitchen Microwave Oven
12 Dining Wall clock Pendulum
13 Dining Weather station
14 Dining Weather station computer Auto
15 Dining Desktop Computer Auto
16 Living Table Clock Inherited antique
17 Living Plant light timer
18 Utility Recording barometer Not in use
19 Garage Wall clock
20 Garage Sprinkler timer
21 Garage Christmas light timer No DST
22 Car 1 Dash clock
23 Car 2 ` Dash clocks (3, one setting)
24 Wherever Laptop computer Auto
25 Wherever iPhone 1 Auto
26 Wherever iPhone 1 Auto

I had to go out and still have not signed off....I keep getting messages.....

Thats a long list......

Sometimes you can replace a "non" DST clock movement (to include electronic ones!) with one that does follow DST. I did that with my heating controller years ago.....even pendulum clocks, though the value may plummet!!

I had to leave suddenly when posting that list...

We also have at least two more pendulum clocks that I intend to get working some day, but I don't expect to have all the pendulum clocks running at the same time.

As I noted, 5 of the clocks are automatic DST, and one is not currently running, but that still leaves 20 clocks that have to be adjusted twice a year.

Regarding HVAC, yes, there is a lot more money involved there: another reason to avoid DST!

I hate hot weather (anything above 30° C; 25 if humid), and love my AC. If I didn't have AC, I'd be digging a basement... ...even more costly!

Having spent some years in Singapore and the far east, from 17 y.o. onwards, its not hot until the thermometer goes over 50°C.....that I feel its sort of getting hot!!

My first job in the far east was working in the boiler room of an aircraft carrier, a cold day there was 90°C, a hot day could bring 95°C.....Working in such temperatures meant you were cold if the temperature on deck went below 40°C.....Which is just over 100°F if I remember correctly....

Even today I like it hot.....

But my wife does NOT agree with me!!!

Now you're pulling my leg. Sous-vide cooking of meat is done at 60 °C. I have no doubt some thermometer in this boiler room displayed 90 °C and where you worked it was uncomfortably hot. You might as well tell us that you had to swim daily uphill both ways to get to and from this aircraft carrier for work, too.

Do you know how hot a sauna can get?

Hotter than it was in the boiler room!!!

Perhaps you do not understand how to convert from °F to °C or back......your ideas of temperature are WAY off!!!!

Don't guess and then post, it just makes you look silly!

Wiki is right when it says:-

A sauna session can be a social affair in which the participants disrobe and sit or recline in temperatures typically between 70 and 100 °C (158 and 212 °F). This induces relaxation and promotes sweating.

Check here:-

Sauna Temperature

By the way, very little cooking is done at 60°C, thats the temperature I maybe dry things out!

Most of my cooking is done above 150°C!!! Sometimes as high as 220°C!!! As is most peoples cooking....

You have never cooked at 60°C, thats only 12 degrees above blood/human body temperature!!!

I would guess that somewhere there is a recipe that "cooks" at 60°C, but as the bad germs/Bacteria are not all killed below 75°C, that could be really dangerous to health!!!

Now wait a minute!

RedFred documented his Sous-vide cooking temperatures.

"You have never cooked at 60°C, thats only 12 degrees above blood/human body temperature!!!" Blood/human body temperature is 37.0°C. My math says that's a difference of 23°

"This induces relaxation and promotes sweating." It sure as heck would promote sweating, and I absolutely despise sweating. Relaxation? NO WAY!

I once experienced just slightly over 50°C, very dry, for just long enough to fill the car with gas (Bakersfield CA, August). There is no way I would live in such a climate! ...and work in such a climate; NO WAY!

My Math is is appalling!! 23°C difference just as you said, thanks!!!

Dry 50°C is just warming up, a bit!!

The good point about those boiler room temperatures is you burn all the fat off your body....I weighed only 70 Kg after my first 18 months....

Yes, I know how to convert between Fahrenheit and Celsius degrees. F=C*9/5+32

I also do not take insults lightly, you bombast.

Since basic math seems to be beyond your abilities today, here is a nice diagram of the three most commonly used temperature scales.

60 °C is 23 °C warmer than body temperature, not 12 °C. 37+12=49≠60

Yes, I know that a sauna is typically very hot and as you just posted a sauna is hotter than the boiler room you worked in.

"Do you know how hot a sauna can get?

Hotter than it was in the boiler room!!!"

(Three exclamation points for extra emphasis. You want me to be sure you contradict yourself.)

You cannot get your own facts and statements correct.

As I said many many replies ago, this thread has become much to do about nothing. You seem to think it is about you. You might be right.

A SAD, BAD & BITTER LOSER!!!

It just gets funnier and funnier......

You cannot worm yourself out of that big hole!!!

I can confirm Boiler room temperatures. We kept a calibrated thermometer in front of the forced ventilation duct. It was pretty constant at 185 degrees Fahrenheit.

The human cooling system is amazing that it can cope with this. You need to drink lots of water and have some salt intake or the cramps and dehydration can be very bad. So long as the blower is going and you can race back to it to cool down between jobs or machinery rounds. You can survive and you do get acclimatised to certain extent.

When my boiler room crew went to a civilian gym we would do our workout in the sauna while the civilians were siting around melting.

BAB

Love your post.

YOU'VE BEEN THERE!!!

Never argue with a fool. Bystanders may not be able to tell the difference.

Fortunately in this case, the fool is well known to us all.

Would your wife be incensed if you were to declare that you were not going to use the HVAC system in your home, because through your own careful observations, you are convinced that forced air heat is not superior to simply dressing in more layers to keep warm. In fact, you have a strong suspicion that the HVAC industry is perpetrating a massive scheme to induce people to condition their homes, when all they really need to do is dress appropriately.

Almost every one appreciates more daylight after work when the season is more temperate. Some people just can't quite figure it out. I have never heard the idea that it saves energy uttered except by people who oppose it because it was supposed to energy, which it most likely does not. So if you look at it that way, they are right! They must be right about everything. (Socrates was amazing, huh?)

Left field is where the interesting kids play.

It depends! If you are talking about the H part of HVAC, we are in agreement. Just yesterday my wife said she did not need to turn up the heat, because she would build a fire. She and I both prefer a sweater in the morning.

In fact, if you don't need a sweater in the morning, then the weather is too hot for both of us.

But when it comes to the AC part, then we (you and I) definitely disagree. To us, anything much over 85°F is too hot, and taking off all clothing does not make it comfortable. The main thing that made me choose the house I bought 45 years ago was the fact that it had AC. I gather that it is pretty rare for a 47 year old AC unit to still be functioning satisfactorily, but ours is. (It was installed 2 years before we bought the house.) If it should fail while I'm still alive, I will definitely either repair it or replace it.

I'm not an hourly worker; more light in the evening just means I work later...

I'd say that the place where interesting kids play is in the shop, building stuff.

Our AC has not been on since either 2007 or 2008.....saves a bomb and the house remains very cool in the hottest weather....

Visitors remark that our AC is very quiet, I say its because it isn't even plugged in!!!

......and what does HVAC cost the American public per year, $Trillions$ ?

It costs us here a lot too, though due to great insulation we ourselves pay half what we were paying in 1986, not even correcting for the difference in value of the money from that time!!

I personally have no real idea of the cost of say the USA with HVAC, but the dollars involved in resetting private household clocks is SOOOO far away from that Ballpark, you can only laugh!!!

As I said before, good modern clocks correct themselves (as everyone here already knows!), but if you have Horology as a hobby, then accept the fun that you have twice a year.....or let them stop running, but please don't complain or give that as a reason for getting rid of DST......thats like saying you get skin cancer from the extra sunny hours you are forced to endure because of DST.....

I suspect its also almost like replacing the batteries in smoke detectors each and every year, nobody gets paid to do that either in most homes that I know of.....and that is even MORE important than having the right time of day!!!

Though I admit, I do like knowing what time it is...... and I like it accurate.

But there MUST be far better reasons for getting rid of DST than any I have seen here up to now. Are we all stupid? I don't think so! Well not all!!

So for me personally, I suspect at this time that there is no real true and valid reason for scrapping it and using tax Dollars/Euros/Pounds to change the laws everywhere where DST is still in use....it is "still 6 of one and a half dozen of the other!"

But as ever, I am willing to be both PROVED wrong, and to change my mind if such proof actually exists and is brought to our attention here (or anywhere).....

I have learnt also on this blog that there are as many varied opinions here over DST as there are political opinions, and sorting through that crap is a long and dirty process.

I don't know if this cartoon was already seen here, hopefully not! It sort of fits I feel!!

Wishing everyone a great day and I am off from here, as its going nowhere fast!!!

P.M. me if anyone finds the final valid answer!!! Either way......

Byeeeeeee

Starting on 30 April 1916, Germany and its World War I ally Austria-Hungarywere the first to use DST (German: Sommerzeit)
Closely followed by;-

Tasmania is at a lower latitude with a cooler and wetter year than us in West Oz.
Jim

I have missed the point you are trying to make about Tasmania, Australia and the weather, can you post more detail?

Thanks in advance.

Remember, I was simply quoting from Wiki which shows that DST has been around a long, long time.....for good or bad depending upon your point of view.

Though I would guess that a small number of people around the world are 100% against DST.

I would also guess that a small number of people around the world are 100% for DST.

Though I would guess that a very large number of people around the world who could not care less either way.

Rather like politics!!!

You singled out Tasmania, why?

It has only some 500,000 population (not that in itself means much!)

But, it is at 42° South, so it will benefit strongly from DST (in the intended way that DST was originally planned to work!).

Now tell me what you meant to tell us please.....I am at a loss to understand your point!!

Unfortunately, you seem to miss most all points, unless they are exactly the same as yours.

Sorry, i was rather egocentrically thinking you were following my posts. Even if you had you probably wouldn't have read my mind as they were a bit short of words as well.
I am saying that a cooler, wetter climate seems to suit DST better than a hot dry one. In a hot dry climate the only golf played by me in the afternoon is in the 19th hole as it is air conditioned. Far better to put the clocks an hour the other way and get a round in in the cool of the morning. Tassy was the first Oz state to adopt DST and has had DST for longer. Tassy is cool and wet.
Also i will say now ( not said before ) that those opposed to DST were more vehement than those who supported DST. Having said that the referendum ended with only about 55% against.
You will notice that i have not bought into any energy, fading curtains, upset cows, car accidents or global warming arguments. My view is that justification for a personal preference is futile. I hated DST as my normal sleep time is 10.30 and with DST that became 11.30. I TRIED to sleep at DST10.30 but couldn't. Had to wake at DST 6.0 wanted to wake at DST 7.0. Had to be up and going as i had employees to think about. In short, my intense dislike was for personal reasons. Similarly your like is for personal reasons. As you said, you really couldn't give a rats', whereas i really, really do. But even though those of us who were against DST were more aggressively opposed, the vote was still nearly 50/50.
This post is uncharacteristically verbose but i hope you find it explains some or most of what i meant.
As for stats or real research; i say it is not needed. There are no REAL arguments for or against, an alterante view is that any argument for is easily countered with an argument against. Either way that just leaves personal preference as the most persuasive force.
Jim

I live in the desert, too. AC runs from April to September regardless of DST.

I never have to reset my clocks, here in Arizona, we don't change our time. The world changes around us.

It was just my opinion that it was outdated, until Andy demanded proof where none was asked.

We are not in court.

It's a d-i-s-c-u-s-s-i-o-n.

It's 10:10 PM here in Arizona and dark outside.

I think the opposition comes from many who do not live by the clock and yet may have to deal with those who do.

The support comes from those who like it.

This is another casual discussion rent asunder.

The sun will rise tomorrow at the same time that it always has on this date, give or take.

You took a stand.

You were unable to prove it either way, let alone your way.

Neither could I.

So the cheapest way is to simply save tax Dollars by NOT re-writing a law....

If you had offered to pay for that, well I might have supported you.....

If there had been a convincing reason to change, I would have supported it.

There wasn't, so I didn't!

Simple........ Problem solved!!

Q.E.D.

I thank you for explaining so well! Even I understood your excellent point of view!

I think there are many grains of truth in what you wrote, particularly that as Tasmania is quite far south, they "gain" more for most folks there......As in the north of the northern hemisphere where I live....

I would not trust myself to state an exact point on the globe when its not worth having, but somewhere between 20N and 20S I would guess. Open to correction of course.....

Thanks again for taking the time to answer me!!

Andy subscribes to the philosophy that if he can't be right, he'll just baffle them with bluster.

LOL!!!

What you understand as bluster, is normal English for the rest of CR4!!!

There's real time and then there's fake time. In the old days we worked from 8 to 4. Now we work from 9 to 5. I think our biological clocks compensated somehow. We all ought to go to international time or Greenwich Mean Time. That way we would know what time it is the world over.

UTC. No ambiguity.

Appointed times for different activities can change but the clocks don't need to.

What? You get paid for lunch?

What? You GET a lunch?

Sunrise till 11am, lunch, then 2pm till sunset, are the real workers working hours here.

It's just too hot in the middle of the day to work manually.

Office work is 7 to 5 with a min 2hr lunch.

I hour lunches blow.

How about our 1/2 hour lunches?

There are 1/2 hour lunches?

If you're lucky to have a good union.

More of a sandwich break really but that's all we get.

1/2 hour lunches are pretty common here. a longer lunch would just mean you have to stay later... I'm not an hourly worker, so I can take my lunch pretty much whenever I like, and when I do, it's usually closer to 20 minutes. It's actually pretty common for me to forget lunch entirely, wanting to finish 'just one more thing'.

HMMM.... Some of us work from 5 am to 5 pm. Here in Las Vegas there are no clocks in the casinos because they don't want you to know how long you've been wasting your money. The clock means nothing to someone that works on a schedule dictated by their employer and is inside an artificially lit casino Cave! This is a 24/7 town and really the clock means NOTHING except when to clock in and clock out. We adapt!

I just use those automatic clocks that set themselves....not that I pay much attention to the time anymore.....

The main usage was to save power on lighting in factories in countries well away from the equator.

Also, in these countries its possible to be able to make the walk/ride to school for children less dangerous in winter.

I personally like the longer evenings in the summer being a fisherman. Barbecues are possible in the week too.....

I would actually vote for double summertime if asked.....I am often up early and out with the dog and meet no one at all......today I was up at 05:15......totally dark!!

Are you telling me there's a 5:15 in the morning as well!!! I thought it was afternoon tea time.

Yes. You should have a look at it sometime.

I'm onto my 3rd morning coffee by that time.

Nice and cool in the morning. Around 25°C.

It's nice & cool here as well, about 5°C, that's why I stay in bed.

How about -12°C today at that time in the NE USA that has somehow been shifted north to Hudson Bay Canada apparently.

Andy--What type of fishing do you do, and what type of fish do you catch? I fish also, but I can't find any that pay attention to a clock, only solar and lunar cycles..I pay attention to solar cycles, as I have always been in the Trades, or connected to them, up early, work all day, and not many do outdoor work, at night (Unless we screwed up!!)...

I have to wear glasses nowadays for the last 18 years or so, I notice even the tiny loss of light through the lenses (I have no idea what percentage it is!), as I can see my float better (but not clearly in focus) without them as the dark starts...

So the longer I can be fishing in good light, no matter what the fish are doing, its fine with me. We try to not use artificial light too soon as we believe it scares the fish off.....

Also, evenings after work (when I worked), it simply meant longer fishing periods....

You have to start thinking outside of the box, I do!!!

I personally like the time change, it sort of heralds in spring. I spent yesterday cutting firewood, and was surprised to see how late in the day it was still light. When working in the office, since there are no windows in the plant, I miss the sun no matter what time of year or day it is. I would just as soon stay on DST all year. It wouldn't matter to the kids going to school in our part of the country (PA) as it would be dark whether we were ahead or behind an hour. Someone start a petition, I will sign it.....

Just another thought though, since most people are fair weather golfers, gardeners, etc, of course there are more outdoor activites in the spring and summer, no matter what the time of the day it is....

Good day and safe travels to all!!

So what does it matter if you're on DST all the time or ST all the time?

I really enjoy having more daylight after I get home from work. Especially in June and July when it doesn't get dark until after 9pm! That's great.

I am total agreement.

Well put.

Those people who can work flex time hours should just do it. Work whatever hours you wish. Use any system you want to mark the time. When you come down from your fantasy tower and have to interact with other people you will find everyone else in your area assumes one time reference system. Learn to work with it or stay in your tower.

Perfect!!

I do - as much as possible. I have a consulting job, and I can set my own hours.

I'm not telling anyone what to do. Live your life as you want.

But I'm forced to abide by this change if I want to go shopping, use the bank, the post office, any government office, etc.

Somehow I'm wrong for complaining about this artificial change that affects me, even though NO change would not have any real impact on anyone else. If there had never been a DST (and prior to 1916, there wasn't) you wouldn't know the difference.

You're not wrong for complaining about a convention that annoys you. You just should be gracious about people complaining about your complaint. To be perfectly clear, you most certainly have been gracious. There have been a few people that have used a little too much hyperbole to emphasize their point of view. [Andy did an admirable but verbose rebuttal on one example.]

Frankly I think this entire discussion is much to do about nothing.

Amen Brother!!!

I already start work at 7AM. I think 6 would be pushing it!!

Maybe you could give me a wake-up call when you've been in the office for a while, around 7:30 GMT would be fine.

Actually, it is more for the people in your part of the world than us freezing northern states folks. We get a few months where we can utilize the extra light at days end for recreation, but, I remember when I lived in Texas, baseball games started in February and amateur athletic fields were fully lit from 5:00 PM to midnight, every night of the week. Talk about an energy waste. Heck, Old Tricky Dick's 2 hour shift from 1973 would be very good for folks in warmer climes. Turn them lights out guys.

However, I will say I truly welcome it up north here, as a cat owner, come the middle of the year. Cats are regulated by bird awakening, and birds are regulated by the sun - one hour later rise in the morning is greatly appreciated in late June. I really don't want to be getting up at 3:45AM in June.

Because we still rely on studies that were done when people still depended more on natural light to work by, 1918. Or World War II energy studies, War Time Act. The government does not want to waste tax payer money on up to date studies. So they waste our time and money trying to deal with it.

This folly will continue until there are not enough people to believe the BS the government puts out about it's savings.

I don't see many of todays building built so that there is enough natural light to work by. And their energy effiency is such that the 1 hr change does little to save there.

Only problem I have with it is. When you just about get though that blinding commute in the morning. And the sun no longer a problem on the horizon. You have to go do it all over again.

I share your pain Lyn.

I am of the firm belief that DST was actually created for construction and production companies to take advantage of the extra hours of daylight especially in the extreme Northern and Southern regions.

Doing so improves safety on the job (because of adequate daylight and warmer temperatures) and it also allows a much greater quantity of work to be completed in a much shorter span of time.

In many cases it is the difference between completing a project or a plant system overhaul and not being able to do so.

For those fortunate enough to have a stable 40-50 hour work week, DST is either a benefit or a pain in the back side depending on attitude and circumstance.

I am certain DST was adopted in an effort to synchronize and stabilize work/production schedules to avoid confusion as well as legal risk & liability.

DST has been creeping into ST's turf over the years. Let the creep continue, for DST is the real deal, placing the US Eastern Time Zone exactly 12 hours out from China. Adjust light sensitive activities, not the clocks. Ideally, the globe should be on Zulu time.

I agree that we do not need this mandated item. Being originally from Saskatchewan, we didn't and they still do not do the daylight savings thing( a lot of us winter in your state, maybe that's why, other than the obvious climate reasons). DST was introduced for the 9 to 5 (or what ever your"regular" hours are) crowd, which, these days is the vast majority of working people. For people in agriculture it just used to be sun up 'till sun down and in some seasons it still is, it doesn't really make any difference of what time it says on the clocks.

I think it's causing "climate changes"! We should stop it NOW!

So do others. I went to my favorite source of profound information… The web. and found that global warming is caused by daylight savings time. They both did start at about the same time, plus or minus the odd decade. I grew up with the global cooling scare and it's a little hard to get too excited about global warming. Or to care enough to change my clock. I keep outdoor light timers on ST and they work just fine. I do change the clocks, my better half insists, but I don't need them to get where I need to be on time. She takes care of that.

If there weren't time changes how would people know when to change the batteries in their smoke detectors? How many of us have changed them at least once a year? Should be twice a year that we change them. Death by fire vs. a 9 volt battery?

Good Luck, Old Salt

My detector lets you know by making a beeping noise but it's one of those noises that seem to be non-directional. Every year I wander round the house waiting for the beep (1/minute) until I realise where it's coming from.

Have you noticed how they mostly start beeping sometime between 2 and 6 in the morning?

Do you know why?

I think they do it just to annoy us.

My computer changes the time at the old date settings. So now I have to override twice in the Spring and twice in the Fall.

I used to go to work on a farm at seven AM. That would have six standard time. Worked til sundown anyway so what difference would it make?

One winter I worked indoors. Never saw daylight until spring.

Why don't we put it up to a vote. National initiative on whether to keep or get rid of Daylight Saving Time. Or do it state by state.

OK - I've been saving my daylight for 70 years now. Where would you like me to send it? It's not done any good here in Maine this Winter!

It seems to settle over Southern Nevada for a spell every summer!

I have always said that DST is a waste of time!

If there is a need to have more natural light for a reason then modify the actual time you plan your activities, don't change the clock!

This is one thing I have always done when in the construction industry. Schedule the outside activities for a later hour.

SIMPLE AS THAT!