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Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

Posted April 06, 2008 5:01 PM
Pathfinder Tags: challenge questions

This week's CR4 Challenge Question:

Tom's basement has a shallow sump pit and a pump. The pump is attached to a 25ft garden hose which empties into a drain 8 ft away. One day Tom and John were in the basement when Tom mentioned that the pump just isn't working fast enough and that he needs to buy a slightly stronger one. John says he has a cheaper solution, disappears upstairs for a minute, returns, and fixes the problem. What did John do?

And the Answer is....

John went upstairs to the kitchen for a knife came down and cut the hose in half. According to Poiseuille's Equation, this should double the flow. The pump should be fast enough now.

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RickLee
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#96
In reply to #68
 Find in discussion

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 8:04 AM

Yes, there is another solution, John inserted a variable frequency drive to the pump and boosted the speed up. This will improve the flow on just about any type of pump as long as the pump can take it. Yes this is what John must have done.
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donzi
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#103
In reply to #68
 Find in discussion

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 8:38 AM

stan the man

any chance you located in florida?

donzi
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Stan The Man
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#110
In reply to #103

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 12:15 PM

Sorry, I am in Ontario.
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Anonymous Poster
#70

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 2:19 PM

Cut the hose off at 8' long. Doing this reduces the area it need to push through, lessening the head pressure and allowing the pump to be more efficient.
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MEGRL
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#71

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 2:35 PM

Cheaper solution, cut 17' of the hose, so the sump can be discharged faster into the drain and the pump can operate adequately; inside its capacity.
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#72
In reply to #71

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 2:40 PM

Have you read any of the replies to date or just come stormin in? Apart from that, thank for signing up, there are far too many guest, how can we have a chat if we don't know their names and as you found out, it's so easy!

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#74
In reply to #72

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 3:02 PM

Well actually I do work with mechanical systems and process instrumentation. Besides it doesn't takes a rocket scientist to know that if the problem is strenght and velocity, and they are not changing the pump, you'll need to have greater pressure to than any back pressure coming to the line-an open vent system, in this case the hose.
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#80
In reply to #72

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 3:46 PM

By the way, why the attack, Can't stand that a girl has a better answer than you???
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#84
In reply to #80

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 4:02 PM

At least you've got some fight in ya! After a while of people saying cut the tube, cut the tube, it starts to get a bit boring! It's so refreshing when somebody comes up with something different like............................ John goes upstairs to get a beer, when he returns, he shuts the air tight trap door on the sump and connects his high pressure compressor to the special valve he soldered on the week before. He starts the compressor and after a few moments jet propelled water shoots out of the end of the hose! Tom looks at John and says "Well that's a turn up for the books!"

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#92
In reply to #80

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 6:50 PM

LOL, I can, beat me any time (but just promise to be right as I have so few brain cells left and can't spare any of them to check up on you :P )
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#105
In reply to #80

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 8:53 AM

Hey, be thankful you are getting some flack. It means he thinks your one of the gang.

Learn to know when to toss the flack back or when to eat the humble pie. This forum is about give and take, and some of the characters that are on the site are nuts, less than tactful, intelligent, not to be taken seriously and/or some/all/or none of the above.

Welcome to CR4, learn and laugh.

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#75

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 3:05 PM

Tom went to the kitchen and got a jug to fill with water so he could prime the pump.

Once the pump had enough water to create a vacuum, the water was drained effectively.

If the pump would have been powerfull enough to be affected by the extra 16' of hose, it wouldn't be an ordinary sump pump, but rather more like an irrigation pump.

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SPIJman
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#88
In reply to #75

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 4:43 PM

If you do the math, you will see a pressure loss - IF you assume the pump is outworking the hose. If a 25' garden hose makes a noticable difference, than the pump must have a pretty large outlet, and several fittings to adapt the garden hose to it. Why not just get a crescent wrench out of the kitchen junk drawer, and remove the hose and fittings? The drain is only 8' away, if the basement isn't flooded, you could direct the flow towards it.

The context of the challenge postings generally fall within the norms - well enough that is, for me to assume that the pump being used would be suitable for the job; therefore I assume it is a sump pump. It is not uncommon for a sump pump to "go dry" and require water to be added to the pump housing, however it is very unusual for a pump used at a sump to be so powerful that any hose larger than the garden variety would be required to be effective. Also, if there was so much water that the hose diameter would make a difference, the basement would likely be flooded, requiring special equipment (i.e. high volume pump) - not necessarily at the sump location.

I'm sticking with the dry pump theory, whether it's sucking air [see NoSciFi below] or dried out. There is usually something to be learned by the solution, even if is a small detail that only a specialist (chef, plumber) would accept as common knowledge (a mouse crawled into the hose and got stuck or died - so he cut off the hose to remove the obstruction). If it was glaringly simple, it wouldn't be fun. These challenges have continually served to remind me the importance of keeping it simple though, and not making the solution larger than the problem. Good luck folks.

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#97
In reply to #88

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 8:10 AM

If you take the position some people are that the drain is in the basement, the basement can not flood. The water would just run over to the drain and go down it. All you would have is a damp floor. I still think the drain is outside the building.
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Anonymous Poster
#79

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 3:40 PM

CUT OFF 17' OF HOSE
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#82

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 3:51 PM

The pump is not described as a sump pump. The possibility of a positive displacement pump (peristaltic or vane) which could have a suction pipe or hose separate from the discharge hose. In such case, an air leak at the suction fitting could be reducing the capacity, and electrical tape or a hose washer could have restored the pump to its proper flow rate. Damn I wish I had learnt to read.

RichH

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#98
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Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 8:12 AM

Yes the pump could be above the sump in which case the prime could be deficient.
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#83

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 3:56 PM

I now favor the hose cutting solution. I should have seen it sooner, but I didn't pay enough attention to the length of hose compared to the distance to the drain.

Confirmation of this solution comes from considering the parallel between water flow through a hose and RF current in coaxial cable. Ham radio operators often refer to flexible coax as "hose", and hardline and "pipe".

Hams are often concerned about ERP (Effective Radiated Power) at the antenna (aerial to those outside the US). One major factor in ERP is the length of feedline between the radio and antenna, and the amount of loss presented by that length. Feedline loss is usually expressed in dB per 100 ft. A rule of thumb is that a 3 dB loss represents a decrease in power of one half. Of course a shorter "hose" presents less loss.

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Bill H.
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#90

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 5:17 PM

From my experience with garden hoses, I think he replaced the rubber gasket/o-ring which is supposed to be in the connector, but frequently is lost or deteriorated and cannot seal properly. If the hose connector on the pump is under water, then it would not have been obvious that there was a leak. Most pump outlets are only slightly higher than the inlet so it isn't easy to see a leak.

A typical basement is the lowest part of a house, so the drain is most likely higher than the sump pump.

As for raising the pump, sump pumps are equipped with feet that raise it off the bottom.

The story does not say how long the pump has been installed or that it ever actually worked properly to start with, so a drop in performance is not in the parameters.

Cutting the hose will lower the resistance to the flow, but it doesn't matter if there is a leak, and if the drain is outside, he would have most likely "fixed" the problem by cutting off the end near the drain. Why would he cut it off at the pump and have to splice the hose or reconnect the connector when cutting the outlet end is easier?

Aside from that, we don't know what their relationship is. I would have second thoughts about cutting my neighbor/friend's garden hose and I would probably not know where he kept a hose gasket/o-ring.

John says he has a cheaper solution, which may indicate he has a monetary interest the the solution. So he may be related to Tom or at least familiar enough with the house to know where things are kept.

John may be a plumber and had the gasket/o-ring in his service vehicle, however I think John lives in the house.

He had to go upstairs to obtain something. I doubt it was a knife (out of two men, one should have had a pocket knife) or shears. It could have been simply been a pair of channel locks to tighten the connector.

Or, am I overthinking this?

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phyd man
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#91

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 6:32 PM

Assuming there is a sump pump in the sump pit... and that a common problem with sump pumps is float related. I think John, to be safe, went upstairs to turn off the circuit breaker to the pump. Then returned and fixed the float by repositioning the pump/float so that it would begin its cycle sooner (turn on the pump with a lower water level).

The problem is that the water is rising in the sump pit beyond Tom's desired level, and logically wants to pump it out faster. A similar solution would be to adjust the sump cycle start and stop levels. Tom thought about the problem and came up with "a slightly faster one" solution. I take it from that the pump he has, adjusted as it is, is nearly adequate. Adjusting the sump cycle start point to a lower level should work.

To plug a couple-a holes:

Giving Tom the benefit of the doubt, I think he would have cleaned the inlet filter himself. Also, if in the problem it was stated that John had returned upstairs - it would have been a dead give-away. It doesn't say he tested the fix.

that my dollar-two-ninety-five's worth of splainin'

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#93

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/08/2008 7:13 PM

Damn, this one got more posts than the Chicken...

I have one more possible solution...

Cut off all but 2" of hose (to eliminate most of the flow restrictions), open the door to the basement bathroom and arc the output into the toilet.

If, like me, you prefer overkill, BRING ON DIESELS...

http://www.wackergroup.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&partNumber=0007175&langId=-1#td

Now you can arc it into your neigbor's upstairs bedroom window (on the 14th floor) <evil wicked grin with a Muahahah thrown in just for effect> Did I ever mention I wasn't much on subtlety?
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#94
In reply to #93

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 4:01 AM

I'd just re-position the porcelain pony over the sump. You'd need a macerater to deal with all the tissue paper.

<handy tip - after a heavy night out, never vomit whilst flushing. The syphon effect is truly horrible.>

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#100
In reply to #93

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 8:18 AM

Maybe John went up stairs to get a stick of dynamite to blow a hole through the wall and let the water run outside without the need for a pump. A bit extreme, but what the hack!!
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DaS Energy
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#101

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 8:28 AM

Shortening the garden hose will increase flow.

Obtaining a hose with greater diameter will increase flow.

Placing one way valves in the hose will increase flow.
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Anonymous Poster
#102
In reply to #101

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 8:37 AM

DaS Energy

What's a one way valve? Do you mean a check valve?

Just about anything placed in the discharge line will present an increase in resistance to flow, even a check valve.
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#104
In reply to #101

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 8:40 AM

I agree with your first and second comments completely, but the third, unless the valves are of a considerably larger dimension than the hose (which you did not mention) , which will make them difficult to attach in the first place, will actually reduce flow.....

Comments please.

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#106

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 11:29 AM

New thought, probably screwed up though. The pump was working therby pumping the level down then it slowed. VORTEX formed sucking air, john went up stairs and stole the dogs toy ball threw it in the vortex breaking the air flow thereby solving the problem.

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#107
In reply to #106

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 11:35 AM

Good for John, works for Tom. But from the dog's point of view...

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#108
In reply to #107

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 11:43 AM

Forgot to mention ---Tom goes for first aid kit to repair Johns hand and arm...

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#109
In reply to #106

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 12:14 PM

I like that, shows some gumption!

Another one is...

John goes upstairs and gets a few large bricks! When he returns, he puts the bricks in the water hence raising the level of the water over the height of the pump intake!

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#112
In reply to #109

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 12:42 PM

John just happens to know where Tom stores higher capacity pumps with quick connect fittings upstairs in the kitchen. It therefore takes him mere minutes to select the next larger size, return to the basement with it and swap it out with the smaller one.
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#111

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 12:39 PM

Tom has the pleasure of living in an old wind mill conversion! The pump is part of the windmill kept in the basement with a flour grinder on the ground floor and the main gear head of the mill at the top! The pump was used originally to propagate the surrounding fields! John goes upstairs for a few beers. Back downstairs, he pulls an odd shaped wooden lever which adjusts the angle of the blades on the windmill throwing life into the rickety pump! John sparks his beer with a smug grin on his face! 'There ya go, da daaa!' as a gush of water pops the hose from the output pipe of the pump! ? You might want to put a bigger hose on that Tom!' A puzzled look crosses Toms face 'I always wondered what that lever did!'

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#120
In reply to #111

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/10/2008 5:47 AM

Truman

Excellent!

I like your creative imagination with a sense of humor.

Joe
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#122
In reply to #120

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/10/2008 8:37 AM

Thank you Joe. With so little info to go on, we can take it to any extremes we want!

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#116

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 6:06 PM

He shortened the hose.
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#117

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 7:29 PM

Due to OH&S (Occupational Heath And Safety) Guidelines John would use a pair of secateurs especially designed for the job of Hose cutting i.e. Hose Cutting Secateurs. Of course, John would already have completed the mandatory Hose Cutting With Secatuers Procedure and accurately answering the 12 Questions without getting any wrong (100%- Pass rate). Using scissors or a knife unqualified is just too dangerous. This is how accidents happen. John could then proceed with cutting the hose. Of course John would ensure that Tom was not within a 2.5m radius of cutting area, John had his PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) on (Safety Glasses, Impact and cut resistant gloves) and that he was not on any debilitating drugs or alcohol.

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#118

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 9:19 PM

In light of the light-hearted solutions offered:

John has noticed a leak where the hose attaches to the pump. He went upstairs to retrieve a tube of Consolidated Gookumpucky's SuperDuper SumpPump Sealer. He applies a generous portion to the hose and all is fine.

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#121
In reply to #118

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/10/2008 8:16 AM

"Consolidated Gookumpucky"

Hey, isn't that your company? Seems I recognize that name - I think my Granddad used to use your products!

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#128
In reply to #121

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/10/2008 1:54 PM

Hey, isn't that your company?

Yes it is. We make adhesives and sealers for all kinds of applications. However, if you need to unstick something after using a Consolidated Gookumpcky product, you are on your own. Unfortunately, we don't have anyone who knows how to make a solvent, or else our name would be Consolidated Gookumpucky and Dissolvers. Thus our motto:

Once you use a Consolidated Gookumpucky product, you're stuck with it!

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#119

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/09/2008 11:03 PM

Could be cut restictive material from blocking sump pump intake.
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#124

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/10/2008 9:41 AM

The drain is outside the house, located 8' away along a 45o angle from the sump. The hose leads 18.4 vertically to the bathroom window, before the remaining 6.6' carries water to the drain at an angle of 23.4o . Put the knife down !

<No, I didn't check my calculations, and yes, the house builder is an idiot.>

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#135
In reply to #124

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/11/2008 3:27 AM

I'll correct myself.......

.....hose leads 14.5' vertically to the bathroom window, before the remaining 10.5' carries water to the drain at an angle of 32.6o .....

I'd also take the knife back to the basement to settle any argument. The house stop-valve had been fully opened, increasing flow at the taps, and allowing the water powered pump to work faster ;

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#136
In reply to #135

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/11/2008 4:19 AM

Very entertaining, nice pic' but I've spotted the problem..the metal thieves have been in and stolen a big chunk out of that Main Pump Discharge pipe

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#137
In reply to #136

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/11/2008 5:50 AM

I wanted someone to argue about my 14.5/10.5/8 triangle. I got the knife ready, and was waiting in the darkened basement. If only I'd been at the other end...the missing discharge-spout will probably turn up on PlbMak's photo challenge series - thieving b^"s***'. That's another rose missing.

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#141
In reply to #137

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/11/2008 8:21 AM

"...another rose missing..."

Here's a replacement for ya!

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#147
In reply to #141

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/11/2008 2:55 PM

Tee-hee ! Do you know why elephants have big ears ?.......Because Noddy wouldn't pay the ransom ! I'm still waiting to hear of a ransom demand for the blue rose.

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#149
In reply to #147

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/11/2008 5:12 PM

'At's because we 'aven't decided 'ow much we wants, Mate! But we got 'er 'ere in Floridia, see...

http://www.thebluerose.com/

Arrrrr...

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#154
In reply to #149

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/14/2008 1:16 PM

Wal, scuttle me scuppers! Not to worry yet, the wurst is yet to come...

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#156
In reply to #154

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/14/2008 3:12 PM

You brat! You have a knack for annoying people. Reading your puns is like eating liver!

<<Seriously, you're not a spoiled child, at least as far as I can tell. Considering your avatar, you might be a hot dog.>>

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#157
In reply to #156

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/14/2008 3:48 PM

Or perhaps one of these
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#159
In reply to #157

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/14/2008 4:05 PM

Bee-Yoo-Tee-Full!!!

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#158
In reply to #156

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/14/2008 4:01 PM

Check your mailbox for the Publishers' Clearinghouse envelope - hot dog! You may already be a weiner!

LOL! Thanks for the condiments compliments...I relish the attention y'know. Can't wait for some folks to catsup with my humor, some are most-tard-y in getting there. Mayo days be sunny and bright, and may all your Miracle Whip be Lite!

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#155
In reply to #149

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/14/2008 1:27 PM

You trying to spies things up?
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#162
In reply to #155

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/15/2008 1:54 AM

The barking ones link set me thinking ;

I'm sure I missed something.

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#164
In reply to #162

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/15/2008 6:22 AM

Thinking what? Squab on toast with HP Sauce? You know how dangerous it gets for the rest of us when you start thinking...

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#165
In reply to #164

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/15/2008 6:48 AM

Squab sounds like pigeon. I don't know what they call small ones like that; 'Condor-minimum' maybe ? <groan> I know, it's bad ! If you guys called them 'flats' I wouldn't get soooo confused. I nearly got muddled with cellar and basement, but I'd best not explain that.

Kris-to-lazy-to-log-in-but-back-later-when my shameful joke is forgotten !
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#166
In reply to #165

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/15/2008 7:31 AM

Flats? As in 'pressed duck'? No, we call them 'baby condors', not 'flats'. And why would abasement muddle you, when it seems to be the natural state? Although I have seen some root cellars with dirt floors where you could really get muddled.

What makes you think any of your shameful jokes will ever be forgotton? Much less forgiven... (Actually, condorminimum is pretty good.) OBTW, squab not only sounds like pigeon, but the taste is remarkably similar as well...but not at all like pressed duck, I'm afraid, sorry.

Doubt condor would be very tasty. If it's true that you are what you eat, recall they eat carrion...

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#167
In reply to #166

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/15/2008 7:34 AM

Where I come from a squab is a pigeon that has not yet left the nest. What do you guys think?
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#171
In reply to #167

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/15/2008 2:50 PM

That sounds correct to me, but I'm sure there's a cartoon character who says things like "skwub the decks, ya squabs !". Leastways he would if in nautical dress.

A squab might be good emergency survival food. Easy to collect if they haven't fledged, then you could use the nest for a fire and spatch-cock it/them.

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#173
In reply to #171

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/15/2008 5:23 PM

My home used to have a pigeon house**, with conveniently located shelves for the pigeons to breed. Far from being only an emergency food, squab was(is) a very tasty (and tender) supplement to the diet. If you like strongly flavoured meats, I would highly recommend it.

**Unfortunately, I am too squeamish to revert to the practice (even if the historic monuments people would allow me to rebuild the structure), so I very rarely get to partake.

Fyz
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#177
In reply to #173

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/16/2008 2:44 AM

I meant 'emergency' in the sense of taking wild ones, though I can't see anything inherently wrong in farming them. I've seen some very coo-l (couldn't resist !) pigeon lofts in older buildings. Even forgetting the function, the brickwork can be great to look at. It's a shame they wont let you restore yours, though encouraging too many to roost might create a bit of a noise issue, and you'd have to clean the place up occasionally. I think (?) pigeons and doves are pretty much the same, either way they must have been a valued food source at one time ;

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#185
In reply to #177

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/16/2008 8:26 AM

Pigeons and doves are essentially 'cousins'; what's commonly called pigeons (in the US, anyway) are more properly called 'rock doves', and originated in the Near East (Turkey, I think). We have several native wild doves; mourning, collared, common ground, white winged. But alas, alack! No longer the passenger pigeon! Also a dove in appearance, BTW.

Here, pigeons are commonly called flying, or roof, rats by those who prefer their statuary without droppings. I think the guano makes great fertilizer. And, yes, pigeons and doves have been a major food source in many places, in many eras, and have been raised and hunted in several cultures (including our own - English) avidly. Squab on toast, don'tcha know...

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#191
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Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/16/2008 4:11 PM

The uric acid in pigeon feces is highly corrosive and can cause extensive damage to metals and other substrates it sits on for long periods. Debris from flocks of pigeons often build up, backing up gutters and drains which can cause flooding and roof damage. Nesting materials and other debris has caused failures in machinery, especially rooftop air conditioning units which are a prime nesting spot for pigeons. Other frequent pigeon problems include slip and fall liability from feces or debris, plus an unclean, dirty image. The bacteria, fungal agents and ectoparasites found in pigeon droppings are responsible for a host of serious diseases, including histoplasmosis, encephalitis, salmonella, meningitis, toxoplasmosis and more.

- Just thought you'd want to know 'bout that

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#192
In reply to #191

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/16/2008 4:19 PM

To say nothing of psittacosis. But squab is still tasty.

Fyz
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#201
In reply to #191

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/17/2008 4:37 AM

Thanks You'd want an NBC suit if visiting some of the older historic site in the UK. Some of the best castles etc aren't maintained by English heritage or anyone else, so they get a fair accumulation of detritus. Anybody with a big old house has to observe pretty strict rules about any building modifications, and disturbing things like bats is a real no-no. The saying about an Englishman's house being his castle isn't very true ! On top of that, there's a list as long as your arm of officials who can demand access without warrant.

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#211
In reply to #201

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/17/2008 7:12 AM

"...access without warrant..."

Pssst...hey, wanna hold a Tea Party? We can shows ya a few tricks...

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#213
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Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/17/2008 7:28 AM

I wonder how they got rid of the green water after St Paddy's day ? They couldn't even make a decent cuppa !

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#215
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Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/17/2008 7:48 AM

Sent in the green-water Navy I expect!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-water_navy

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#182
In reply to #167

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/16/2008 8:01 AM

I think you come from a place where squab is a pigeon that has not yet left the nest.

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#221
In reply to #182

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/17/2008 9:15 AM

Stop this "Squabbling" IMMEDIATELY!!!

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#223
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Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/17/2008 10:25 AM

Not to quibble, but it certainly took long enough for someone to pick up on THAT!

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#176
In reply to #166

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/15/2008 10:57 PM

Abasement usually muddles most people, especially when being heaped on them by their superiors....but 'a basement' just means you relied way to heavily on the spell checker :P And I prefer the term 'flying rats' to squab. Way too many times, at sea, did my notice of a dearth of seagulls herald "Chicken Night" in ye ol' Galley

Oh, and by the way, I think condorminium was just another mistype when he meant to say condom minium when making his clandestine order from the Wee Man's Catalog.

<don't ask how I know this, but his magazines keep showing up at my house>

<-----tomkaighin quickly retracts his hatch and lights the fuse, sealing him like a human dolmades to live his life out as a hermit as opposed to facing the wrath he hath just wrot.
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#178
In reply to #176

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/16/2008 3:04 AM

I'm sure that 'flying rat' is always gull, especially if we agree squabs aren't yet flying. It's a little known fact that Miller made a typo, and intended to write the much more humorous "Dearth of a Salesman", but you've diverted my mind to something else - where do birds go when they die ? I can't believe they all decompose/get eaten that quick, and I don't think there's a bird equivalent of an 'elephants graveyard'. Maybe they know their time is due, and return to a comfy roosting place ? What about all those penguins - there should be mountains of frozen penguin bodies by now. On the other hand, maybe they die at sea.

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#179
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Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/16/2008 4:51 AM

My local farmers refer to wood-pigeon as flying rats, though I agree that their predations are more reminiscent of rabbit.

I too thought that squab were either nearly ready-to-fly, or experimenting with flight but not yet feeding independently.

I suspect that birds weaken before they die, and are largely caught by predators. Del might know more about this... (Penguins are a major food source for sea mammals...)
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#180
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Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/16/2008 7:31 AM

...I reckon the penguins in my previous link are more likely to be eaten by polar bear.

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#181
In reply to #180

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/16/2008 7:41 AM

Not the weakened ones - you should sea those Dolphins jump. (Do polar bears really like faux chocolate?)
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#187
In reply to #181

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/16/2008 3:50 PM

I've long suspected that flippers were just vestigial wings, and the fin on their back is clearly an evolution of the pointy thing on a pterodactyls head. You clearly don't see enough advertising, since polar bears evidently live on mints !

Apart from being black skinned, it's amazing the polar bears are white. Wiki has (below) an explanation for them turning green, though it would be interesting to see them refracting all the colours of the rainbow !

" The hollow guard hairs of a polar bear coat were once thought to act as fiber-optic tubes to conduct light to its black skin, where it could be absorbed; however, this theory was disproved by recent studies.[38] The white coat usually yellows with age. When kept in captivity in warm, humid conditions, it is not unknown for the fur to turn a pale shade of green due to to algae growing inside the guard hairs."

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#190
In reply to #187

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/16/2008 4:09 PM

Clean white polar bear hairs do indeed refract all the colours of the rainbow. Of course, being hollow the amount of useful splitting is minimal (Ha! You knew that. Pedantry rules...)

"The hollow guard hairs of a polar bear coat were once thought to act as fiber-optic tubes to conduct light to its black skin, where it could be absorbed"
I find it amazing that anyone seriously believed that a tapered tube of modest refractive index could guide a significant portion of the incoming light to the skin. Or, even if they thought it possible, that the white appearance of the bear didn't immediately disabuse them of such hair-brained ideas. Perhaps biologists don't believe in talking to physicists?

Has Bertie W heard about Algie's latest oddity?
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#200
In reply to #190

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/17/2008 4:29 AM

No, but the mappined life is full of amusing diversions to monkey around with.

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#207
In reply to #190

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/17/2008 6:16 AM

"Perhaps biologists don't believe in talking to physicists?"

Perhaps some biologists don't, but for me, physics is a hobby.

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#210
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Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/17/2008 7:06 AM

That's very dada !

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#214
In reply to #210

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/17/2008 7:43 AM

Whilst it's a wee bit north o'ye, this is very mama...

http://www.list.co.uk/event/106973-mamma-mia/

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#216
In reply to #214

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/17/2008 8:43 AM

a wee bit north....

You've no idea how glad I am, though I did mean dada in a hobby-horse sense ! I'm relatively sane.

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#217
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Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/17/2008 9:00 AM

"I'm relatively sane." (Emphasis mine)

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, no mater how wrong it is. I don't know any of your relatives (that I'm aware of, altho' I do have many Brit acquaintances), so I don't know how far off your opinion actually IS here. But I DO have my suspicions...

http://www.thesuspicions.com/

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#243
In reply to #217

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/17/2008 3:08 PM

Maybe I should have said "sane by relation", since one of the family once acted in a suspiciuosly normal manner whilst the balance of his mind was un-disturbed. Being sent to purchase fava beans was cruel, but funny. "What's for supper, guys ?".

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#298
In reply to #243

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/23/2008 12:31 PM

Mmmm - mushy peas with a bit of HP sauce. And perhaps a bright Chianti?

"...one of the family once acted in a suspiciuosly normal manner whilst the balance of his mind was un-disturbed..."

ROFLMSAO!!!

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#183
In reply to #178

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/16/2008 8:10 AM

Wot?!? A new offering from the beeb? "Monty Penguin's Flying Circus"! That has a dearth of believability. Personally, I think except as eaten by seals and sharks, penguins are immortal - they live forever - thus they suffer from a dearth of death.

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Kris
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#188
In reply to #183

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/16/2008 3:54 PM

LOL. Wait until the frozen ancestors of penguins emerge after the ice melts. An 18' penguin isn't going to ask nicely for his fish !

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EnviroMan
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#186
In reply to #176

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/16/2008 8:31 AM

To put it another way, from a song (I'm Against It) made relatively popular by Groucho and the Marx Brothers:

"For months before my child was born,

You'd hear me cry from night 'til morn,

Whatever it is, I'm against it!"

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Gary Karm
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#500
In reply to #135

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

07/09/2008 1:51 PM

This problem was correctly resolved about a month ago wasn't it? The correct answer was cutting the hose and shorting the length as explained through an equation. Please let me know as I have been waiting for a new problem to resolve. Thank you. Gary Karm out.....

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Kris
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#501
In reply to #500

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

07/09/2008 2:47 PM

Use the CR4 search box (top right of screen) with the term "Challenge Question", or the top of the page has a link. Let me know if you can't find the latest and I'll find a hyperlink. When a question has been solved, we usually rabbit on a bit.Some of it goes so 'off-topic' it's bizarre. 'Coffee time fun' I'd call it. We've never spoken - welcome to CR4 ! You'll figure out how to navigate it soon.

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EnviroMan
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#502
In reply to #500

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

07/09/2008 3:26 PM

Welcome aboard, Neighbor! (Watch out fer Kris, he's a wily skwirrel...)

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Kris
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#503
In reply to #502

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

07/09/2008 4:42 PM

Watch out - he's some kinda dog. No worries, your head will fall. Anything it did ,when mine hit the ground. From a ceratian distance , it will bounce. You can trust the dude.

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The Mechanic
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#125

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/10/2008 9:46 AM

Maybe he went after another extension cord and an adapter to allow him to connect his pump to an additional 110VAC. This would bring it up to 220VAC. With twice the voltage it should pump twice as fast.

Yeah, I know this wont work. It is still 110VAC. But never tell someone that is doing something that it can't be done. They would not listen anyway.
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Physicist?
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#126

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/10/2008 11:55 AM

He came back with a TEE piece, a jug of water, and a knife. He switched off the pump, cut the pipe close to the pump, and cut a short section of pipe from the end of the long section before cutting the remainder in half. He then used the tee-piece to attach the two ten-foot lengths of pipe to the section on the pump, and routed both to the drain. Then he used the spare short section to replace the leaking section of hose on the input to the pump, and placed the new inlet below the water level. While delving in the murk, he noticed that the float-switch had been displaced, and put it back where it belonged - cursing gently the while. He then primed the pump, borrowed Tom's most stylish shirt and left his for Mrs. Tom** to clean...

**You there Del?
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user-deleted-1105
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#131
In reply to #126

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/10/2008 3:18 PM

A Y piece would be better ..I prefer my magnet related answer...it works on many levels...but I notice we both have designs on Mrs Tom....

Lie on this couch while I ask you a few questions...

Del

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Deepti Sharma
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#127

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/10/2008 12:50 PM

Longer the hose, higher will be the line friction and therefore lower will be the pump performance. Since the drain is just 8 ft away, the 25ft hose is too long for it. John must have shortened the length of the hose enough to bring it make a little longer than 8 ft.

Best-

Deepti Sharma
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Anonymous Poster
#129

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/10/2008 2:40 PM

He returned with a knife and cut the discharge hose to a shorter length reduceing the friction loses and improveing the effeciency of the pump
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user-deleted-1105
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#130

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/10/2008 3:09 PM

John came back with two magnets... he told Tom that they would improve the pump performance dramatically...
He charged Tom half the price of a new pump and then went to the pub to drink his ill gotten gains...
On his way out he took a pen knife from his pocket and cut off the excess hose, justifying his morally dubious dealings in his own eyes.
(He also fancies Tom's wife ...but that's another story...)

Del

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geomech
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#133

Re: Fixing The Pump: CR4 Challenge (04/08/08)

04/10/2008 6:24 PM

He turned the power switch for the pump to the ON position.

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