How Do You Keep from Getting Laid Off?

Make sure your car is in the parking lot before the boss arrives, and when the boss leaves. He or she will notice.

bull$3it. . . .I worked a mid size family company, (where the nephew could take 2 weeks off and no one would notice) I started at 5:00 am thinking I could get out earlier, there were times where I worked till midnight. (I was in my mid thirties, and had more stamina the brains.) I didn't get laid off, but they were quite disappointed when I left. Any job is not worth that.

Do your job, and do it well, if you put in your time, but your out put is questionable. you should get canned.

You beat me to it.

Some times the amount and quality do not count, I got laid off from Systemhouse when AutoDesk bought our division, they simply came in and did a cut and slash. My section was over 30 people who did sales and sales support, they all lost their job, AutoDesk knew better, they had a suite do a study. As near as I have been able to tell, they also lost almost all the clients we had been working with as well.

This is far too common, the thing I do not understand is how do they expect to sell a product when they fire the knowledgeable staff? Why are the first layoff notices always directed at the sales and advertising areas? when times get tough, as in the current times, an aggressive marketing program will gain you new business when everyone else cuts back.

For example, when the crunch hit Chrysler cut ALL marketing, sales, small as they were plummeted to new low levels, Ford on the other hand took an aggressive marketing approach with the new F150, and had to add more shifts in order to keep up with sales.

remember to old saying; when the times get tough, the tough get going. never more true than now.

Circuit City pulled the same stunt with their more knowledgable staff (leaving only the neophytes and totally non-productive top management) and now look at them: they're having a going-out-of-business sale. The sods deserve to go out of business, except that I feel sorry for the folks who were laid-off.

Unbridled Corporate Greed is at the root of these problems, you can be sure.

Why are the first layoff notices always directed at the sales and advertising areas?

Marketing is always the first to go, because they don't want to fire the management that got them into the situation in the first place. You are absolutely correct that bad times are the best times to increase marketing expenditures, because a company can increase its market share at a lower cost. Your example of the Ford F150 is spot on. By the bye, I was a marcom guy who was laid off as soon as times got tough, so I know whereof you speak.

I disagree. The engineers were the first to go.

In fact, they are usually let go as soon as the project is finished. No need to keep an engineer around on payroll...

We are expensive, we are seen as overhead.

Outside sales reps are cut first when the company finally does start imploding, but until then, sales and marketing are sacred.

Look at how ford did it, engineering and white collar was first wave. My assistants husband is an MS in metallurgy, HE was bought out last year- first wave. No sales or mkting people went that time.

I've seen a couple of iterations in steel industry too.

I agree with you that managers are last to go . They have to stay and guard where the bodies are buried.

Your comments about when to spend are exactly right.

milo

You seem to be writing about something that is almost rational: if the company has severe short-term problems, the only sensible option is to keep the people who most contribute to the short-term and manage without those whose contribution will take longer to affect the bottom line.

In order, starting from the first:
Anyone working exclusively on a speculative project (yes, we know that in the long term the company depends on one of these coming through - but 'we will analyse and reinstate the most promising as soon as we can afford it')
Production operatives and support beyond those absolutely needed
Next, should be the long-term market analysts
Then the engineers on longer term projects - even if the requirement is understood and technical success certain
Last of all the salesmen and those involved in current production.

But don't worry about firing the senior directors; half of their positions are required for legal reasons, and their short-term affect on the business is minimal. In any case, their contracts will protect them financially, and if they've made such a mess they'll be looking to find a safer haven - and that is cheaper for the company.

Quite true about the "speculative project" / Developmental Project. I had an associate who envied me my position, and I envied him his special assignment. As the merger progressed My position held, and his special assignment was terminated. But he left before the end. He read the writing on the wall. He's now CEO of a cmpetitor of our former employer, and a member of my association.

The ability to "hear the unheard" or what is unspoken is a valuable skill to help one remain employed.

milo

Nevertheless, you both moved on - and (presumably) at no out-of-pocket lay-off cost to the company)

The problem with most "directors" is that they are "non directors." Their purpose in life is to rubber-stamp whatever the CEO wants, increase their own and executive compensation into the stratosphere, and attend six meetings a year for a six-figure fee. American industry would be better off if all directors of all companies were purged, and replaced by engineers, operators, marketing people, and union workers.

If you look at your next annual or quarterly report from a stock you own (the one you always just throw away), it will probably have a proxy form, where you can vote. In an increasing number of cases, there is a proposal to let shareholders vote on executive compensation. Just look for anything the Board of Directors opposes, and it will be there. I vote against everything the BOD approves, and for everything they oppose. I urge you to do the same.

Here's their song:

I want to be a director

Of a big company on Wall Street

I want to be a director

Cuz six figures are so sweet

I want to be a director

Sieze opportunity when it knocks

I want to be a director

With a zillion shares of stock

(apologies to Mel Brooks and "The Producers")

Hmm The best way to avoid getting laid off is to get an education in a field that, while maybe not the quickest means to obtaining a high pay scale, may have a limited number of astute persons, in terms of the level to adequately perform the tasks in the field needed, currently employed, has a high level of intelligence and knowledge required, and foremost has a inherent necessity to devloping and maintaining minimum living standards for society. People will always notice their sewers backing up into the streets or houses, pot holes in their roads, dramatic increases in mortalities due to previously unheard of diseases in 1st world countries (e.g. scurvy). Whereas, they may not see the direct impact to their ability to live, if there were a reduction in the number of bankers, corporate personnel, adminstrative assistants, machinists, or car salesmen. Also, definitely do not go into a job where the only thing holding the industry locally back from modernizing and converting your job to a automated robotic task is the union (either the union will bankrupt the company or eventually capitulate to let your job go to a robot).

Never stop advancing in your field. Make yourself a valuable asset to the company. Create/find a niche, where you are the only one who knows something valuable, don't share this information. Work hard, and make sure your work quantity/quality is higher than that of the people around you. Any Time a company invests money into someone for things such as training, YOU become their investment, and in turn become a more valuable asset, one who is less likely to be laid off than someone who they have not invested the time/money in.

In the end, there is only so much you can do... If your company goes under, everyone there is just out of luck. sometimes even the most efficient/profitable employee can be cut. All you can really do, is your best, and put yourself into a position of being an invested asset to the company, and not just another employee.

Simple really, add more value than they are paying you for. My boss and I (at last job) had a contest to see who earned their paycheck first- If i hadn't beat him by day three of the pay period, I'd be buying him lunch.

I didn't buy lunch very often.

As a manager, I've had to lay off people too. I didn't do it based on competence. Hell if they weren't competent I'd have sent them packing way before.

The way I decided was by ranking the unwritten job descriptions that they best personified, and then figuring out which was most problematic to my team, dept or plant .

Ie, clockwatcher was less problematic than gossip, which was less problematic than backstabber, which was less problematic then passive aggressive which...

It isn't quantity of time, it s value created, to hold the job; its inverse, problems created is determinant to lose the job.

Create more value than they pay you for and they 'll find a way to keep you til they can't.

milo

Nice one Milo.

But how would you judge my situation. I never do overtime but never missed a deadline. If I do need more time to finish my work, I do bring it home and try do some bits on it (not to the extent of compromising my time with my family)..The down side of this is I never told anyone that I'm doing this.

Will my company judge me of differently against those who are staying late at the office??

I think most of the companies look upon the salary of the persons they laying off that's why most of the knowledgeable ones which earns more have to go out of the door first...isn't it???

That depends sooo much on the company, on the person that decides who gets fired and on their principles and values.

The best way not to get laid off, in my opinion is:

first, get hired at a company you love working for, and work enough to earn their appreciation

second, have regular meetings with your boss (1 per quarter, for example) on how you are doing in the company - are you productive according to them, do you help them meet their goals etc.

and third, if you do get laid off, learn as much as you can from it and always ask for feedback

just those three things could make the difference between a "they owe me, it's they're fault, I'm so innocent and competent, too bad no one appreciates me" person and a successful, happy engineer.

"get hired at a company you love working for"

Easy to say...

Hey, I didn't say it was easy! If someone's looking for the easy path, they're not going to achieve much anyway.

You know what they say:

"When times get tough, the tough get going"!

Hi ericpolc. It is not for me to judge your situation, but if you worked for me, I would judge you by the results. Substance of your work product. Not the "style' of how you produced it.

I guess the one thing that I left out that another poster has somewhat pointed out is that I understand that I don't work for the "company" I work for my immediate supervisor. Together we work toward accomplishing the company mission. There is no such thing as company loyalty,but my boss knows who among his direct reports add value... I tend to my relationship with him, and he covers me from the idiots upstairs.

If the enterprise as a whole is unsustainable (circuit city comes to mind) Your little island of high performance will not make a difference. So one should read the tea leaves and find an organization where their talent and efforts will be valued and make a difference.

Don't let anyone "guilt you" into feeling vulnerable because you are there for your family. Your work product results are your testimony, and surely they say " right on time, high quality,Thoughtful analysis, sufficient quantity, and right on target."

milo

We too are going through a "down-sizing". The sad thing is; there are a lot of employees that everyday quietly go about doing their work in a safe, efficient, and productive manner doing whatever is necessary to keep production going. These employees are seldom recognized for their accomplishments and usually get overlooked because they do not run around flapping their wings and crowing "look at me - look at what I did". These "worker bees" are the ones that are not texting or talking on their cell phones constantly nor do they gather up in the BS sessions for hours and they do not have time to impress upper management. Because they aren't part of the "spin it" generation, they have been alienated and are quickly disappearing from the workplace. Our american-based companies are now suffering from the high overhead costs caused by the lack of work output and poor work ethics that they themselves have created by not only accepting but embracing the "spin-it" routine. Think not? More than 80% of all companies use behavioral-based interviews and behavioral-based matrix selection documents to decide who is hired and who is fired (laid off). In fact, front line supervision seldom have any input into the decision as to who stays and who goes during layoffs as the employees HR record usually dictates the action taken. In many cases beleive it or not, the employee that is complaining is one of the better workers. The one(s) that never gets upset and never complains doesn't care about anything or anyone except themselves.

Bottom line: If we do not soon get back to "one hour of pay for one hour of productive work" and get away from all of this "personality BS", our American Companies will fail and we'll all be in Deep Sh#!.

Understood. Agreed.

"What is the object of the act?"

At some point, even if it is at bankruptcy liquidation, the folks using misaimed tests will learn that the test didn't save them. Or else it will take them and their kind out of the hiring role.

Understood that nobody wants to be collateral damage, but I testified before House ways and means subcommittee on foreign trade as an expert witness on unemployment (By invitation of my congressman) the day the Savings and Loan scandal broke in the Senate back in the late 1980's.

A boss that is fooled by 'peacock displays' instead of 'quality tons across the scale' deserves his fate.

I'm not that kind of boss, and I wouldn't long work for one.

Sounds easy to say, but it isn't. We make the decision for our families as well. ITS tough. but our work is the foundation of our personal economies, and we have to pick the best materials for that foundation. Its easy to stay and try to ride it out. But it is an empty success that just crows "i'm still here." True Success is being a valued part of the team.

Lets not fool ourselves into accepting the "easy way- to stay."

We ain't fooling anybody.

milo

Hierarchies based on false premises are doomed to fail by virtue of submitting to their own delusions.

Nowhere is this more evident that in the personnel offices that all seem to be run by Dr. Phil. A Ba in his particular field of psychology merely requires the applicant to pose a drivers licence as an admission requirement.

I, for example, after taking the employment caps test, have been deemed unemployable by one of this countries larger auto gizmo manufacturers. The founder of this company and I often joke about it.

No tough skin under those Armanis'.....

Amen! All excellent comments and good points of view. I being in the front lines of management, constantly confront the inexperience of the HR group and some managers when a personnel issue rears it's ugly head whether it be production layoffs or everyday "behavorial" issues. I have learned from experience that when an employee cares enough to "speak up" and take the risk of retaliation from management and their peers, I and the company are usually best served by listening. Sometimes it is painful, sometimes the person is wrong or "a little off-base" and occasionally I have to deal with one that is "just making waves". I will gladly deal with the occasional "wave-maker" in order to get the much needed feedback from those that are trying desperately to save all of our butts. Unfortunately, here lately the "new wave" behavioral-based management style does not take into account nor do they appreciate any feedback that can be peceived as negative or not "team" (management decision support) oriented.

Interesting that with the advent of personnel rotation based upon a four year max interval, most do not stay long enough in any decision making management position to reap the rewards of their hasty, inexperienced, and short-term profit based decisions. Hence, those that follow the inept, suffer failures none of which are of their own accord. Too bad the bean counters do not comprehend or understand the "bathtub" performance studies.

Alas! We are bleeding profusely from the wounds in our feet with no apparent sign of stemming the flow as we become everincreasingly faint.

My soap box just collapsed, I have fallen, and I can't get up. Therefore, put a fork in me, I am done.

A good manager is hard to find. Especially those that'll listen to the bitchin and carry on carryin' on. Those who got parachuted into the job without their sleeves rolled up are nobodys' object of respect.

I know one clown who's got more lead hands than skilled workers. Likes to hire 'the aware'...whatever that means. Comes in at 10 am and leaves at 4 and then flips his lid when the red ink takes a month to dry. Gives long winded team player speeches over the intercom.

But, he's the rising "star" of Bethlehem...........

10 to 4 are bankers hours, and you know what happened to them, only a matter of time until he gets the door. Times like these people are being watched more so than ever and behaivior like that will get it's just rewards.

You're an optimist! He'll outlast the good people. The idiots always do.

milo Sorry to call you a name, but you asked for it!

Ahh but I am a firm believer in ying and yang, what goes around comes around, never seem ti to fail.

Unfortunately today the illiterates can read and write.

Or is it: one can read and the other can write.........I can never quite get that straight.

I have learned from experience that when an employee cares enough to "speak up" and take the risk of retaliation from management and their peers, I and the company are usually best served by listening.

As my boss once told me, "I would rather manage tigers than tend sheep."

But mostly castigated that he dares to dissagree with the manager.

Duckinthepond depends on if the R/W signal is high or low

don't have a job in the first place.. be self employed.. thats my plan

JOBS ARE FOR SAPS; BE YOUR OWN BOSS THE ONLY WAY TO GO.

Not many have the wherewithall to do so. If you are your own boss and are successful and grow, you will need to hire some of these "saps" to help you maintain and continue growing. It takes expertise in a half dozen area to successfully run an enterprise. Few have it all. Lack of ability in a key area can be fatal. Most need a partner with complimentary business skills, or must hire a "sap" as you call them, to bring essential skills to your organization.

Good plan. Be prepared to spend half your time filling out tax due forms and bookeeping.

milo

...........and then be prepared to teach your newly hired bimbo bookeeper how to use Excel and the 'save' feature. Especially the 'save' button as it prevents head injuries sustained while self is in 'lose it' mode.......

Forget getting laid off.. I've quit the last 4 jobs I've had... why be on the end that feels bad?

Get your degree. Know your stuff. When you get out go to a very large city. Get an office. Go there and do what you do.

I lecture to college students once a year in an industrial chemistry course, and they are always interested in what its like working for a living. Times have changed. Long gone are the times when you work for a company 40 years then get a gold watch at a retirement banquet. I tell them they will change jobs anywhere from 3 to 5 or more times during their career, and not all these changes will be voluntary. A most important point I've learned is, whatever you're doing now is an apprenticeship to prepare you for what you'll be doing next. This is true for any stage of your career. So learn it well! Learn what goes into the part you are doing, and learn what happens to your part after you are finished with it. If you make something, learn how it is used. I served a 21 year apprenticeship doing research for a company, and got laid off. That prepared me over the years to become a consultant, contract worker and finally start my own company and build a research lab and pilot plant. During your apprenticeships, you will build a most valuable group of associates and colleagues which will become your "network". Networking is the most effective means I've found for getting leads and projects.It lets you take to heart the old Beatles song, "A little help from my friends". You can work to avoid lay-offs, but nonetheless, "Be Prepared!"

excellent thinking.. GA

To me it is all about taking on as many different tasks/responsibilities and doing them well that you can. If you are needed I think you will have a better chance or at least that is the way it is where I work. The next most important thing is to not wait till someone asks you to get involved. Bosses love it when you have already started working on a project before they tell you to. Both of these items can cost you more time and it has to be up to the individual as to how much time they are willing to give for their particular job. It is sad but the people who live at work tend to be or at least appear to be needed more IMO. Also you have to let your boss know what you are doing and have accomplished or they may not know that you are needed. I hate to play the "politics" of work but I have saw many that did not loose their jobs. There is always a "not know" waiting to take credit for anything you do. I am afraid the days that you can just do a good job and keep your mouth shut are long gone.

pipewelder,

I agree whole heartedly being cross trained in various disiplines to a certain extend.

But, being a jack of all trades, your a master of none.

your comment;

There is always a "not know" waiting to take credit for anything you do. I am afraid the days that you can just do a good job and keep your mouth shut are long gone.

how true, I recently started my new job at a company that produces automation systems. Even at my interview I and pointed out some issues on thier current project, just by looking at thier resources, drawings, and available skillsets, which for the size of thier company of about (2) million a year. this one single project is about half that, and is stresses out the bottom line.

Thier electrical engineer, was a cook in a resturant, but has a business card that declares him an Electrical Engineer, (no degree, no formal training but has (6) month experience at this company) . And he can't even wire up a E-Stop more or less read a electrical schematic and is quite depended upon vendor sales people to pull his a$$ out of the fire.

I should say that I do not get along with him too well, because I am second checking his work, and correcting it. And as I told him, the only thing I want to keep from happening is this project begin to turn into an abortion (a desriptive terminalogy I pick up at the shipyard). And I asked him if he knew what I meant. He bobbed his head like a little doll in a agreement. So I told him, I asked him a question, you every tried to stop an abortion after it started.

Good guys don't finish last, but you have to stand up for yourself from these morons.

good day,

phoenix911

I will in my modest opinion that a nice way to stay afloat is by applying "The Murphy Law" hanging in there and by go with the flow as far as possible. Staying under the radar is very important as well in order to finish the job at hand before the next one comes around. And remember 'They lied hard work killed many people' too so don't rush into nothing you have the technology.

Show me the Money,

MC

I agree to disagree. Going with the flow means being flushed when the handle gets pushed. Staying under the radar means remaining anonymously undistinguished.

Why would there be either money or technology for such "undistinguished, any way the wind blows" employee?

You show me an upper level engineering professional that only has one project at a time and completes prior to starting next, and I will show you the first engineer to be laid off.

I would never offer that advice to anyone that i cared for.

Sorry for the disagreement, Thanks for the challenging thoughts though.

milo

You show me an upper level engineering professional that only has one project at a time and completes prior to starting next, and I will show you the first engineer to be laid off.

Any good engineer (and every job shopper) knows how to delay completion of a project to ensure that he has something to work on next. No next project? Then, no completion of this one. We can drag this out for months. So many bugs! Especially the ones you put in and solve the next week.

When I was young, single and a job shopper, I saw the married shoppers do this all the time. Me, I couldn't wait for the job to be over so I could go skiing or go back to Florida and lay on the beach for a couple of weeks between jobs. Of course, in those days, it only took a week to find a new assignment. Guess things are different today. Does anybody still job-shop in the pump industry?

These days no one shops in any industry. Far too many willing to work cheap, just out of school, no experience types. HR departments want a PhD to do support work and want to pay McDonalds' wages, so no not shopping jobs, desperately looking for anything.

hanging in there and by go with the flow as far as possible. Staying under the radar is very important as well in order to finish the job at hand before the next one comes around. And remember 'They lied hard work killed many people' too so don't rush into nothing you have the technology.

I disagree, That is the problem, no one wants to make a decision that they were hired for that could jeopordize thier job. To solve a problem bad news can be good news for the company because that can finally deal with when the problem is exposed. To so called blend in, and march and do not make waves trying to correct the problem after your have identifed it, you are Not only NOT doing your job, you can be labeled as incompedent and can also be called spineless.

I do not know what the heck you mean by; 'They lied hard work killed many people' too so don't rush into nothing you have the technology."

Hard honest work can be good for you also. but the problem lies that some people have a difficult time working smart along with that.

phoenix911

Just watch Seinfeld

Was that: "How Do You Keep from Getting Laid?"