What's the Best Vehicle for Carrying a Load Through Deep Mud?

Check this site out. Great for running around new jersey looking for Soprano leftovers in the swamps.

http://www.camoplast.com/en/track_machines/gotract_series.php

excellent, thank you

it is bad

http://www.prinoth-utilityvehicles.com/en/gotract_series.php

this should work.

Those are very popular with electrical utilities for winter maintenance of tower lines here in Ontario. Ski hill operators also use a similar machine for grooming the hills.

I've seen a few options.

If you are after a capable 4X4 to get there got through and get back, a Unimog U4000/U5000 will carry 8-9metric tonnes through mud and boggy ground up to 800mm or 2-3 feet. then get out shake itself off and hit the road.

If its for boggy/swampy areas and wont hit the black-top look do a google search on "Amphibious Equipment" and you will find tracked beasties like this one: -

http://www.wetlandequipmentco.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Seismograph-Exploration&id=truck

Regards,
Sapper

Fantastic! thats the kind of stuff I'm thinking of.

Honoured Sapper,

Please explain to me how is this a "Good" reply when the tracked vehicles shown are meant for only the driver and no "Load" or "Cargo" carrying capacity is visible in any of the pictures.Pardon me if I have missed the point of your reply.

Sincerely

D.Ramakrishna Naidu

Are you kidding? that ferryboat thing is a floating tracked custom carrier. It is carrying those people and the halfton truck. They will make you whatever you want. You have to poke around that website and see a bit more of the photo albums.

Chris

I built the buggy in your picture. My Equipment will go through the worst mud and swamp.

I have several pieces of equipment working in Alberta.

They work in the tar sands in Ft. Mac. As you know the tar sands are worse than any mud.

I work for Wetland Equipment Co www.wetlandequipmentco.com

985-447-0354

If you have look at the site a bit you find several "Flat Bed" Naked units deigned to carry wheeled equipment, similar to a barge with tracks, one phote actually has a 4X4 sitting on the deck.

Have a look around, they have a large variety of projects\devices along this line.

Regards,
Sapper.

Dear Sapper and Chrisg288

Thanks and please accept my apologies. However,the thread reads " What's the Best Vehicle for Carrying a Load Through Deep Mud". Floating on water (as most of the vehicles depicted seem to be good at) and wading through deep mud are not the same thing. Hence, the doubt somehow persists. Kindly clarify.

Thanks and regards to both of you

D.ramakrishna Naidu

Look at in context:

A Swap or river delta or mudflat are a mix of silt and water (Silt+Water=Mud)

To carry a working load across or through these environments there are two options.

If you know that there is a "base" to the mud layer to get traction on a Unimog or other vehicle with High ground clearance will usually sink to that layer and "Cut" through the mud carying the load.

If you know or suspect that the mud is too deep for the the first approach you use plan 'B' and use Floatation to stay on top of the mud and wide tracks to propel the vehicle accross the top of the mud.

This second group also has the advantage of being able to float across open water.

In most of the other posts you will see variations on a theme..Cut & Plow your way through or Float & Skim accross the top.

There are also some fun vehicles modified "for the hell of it" or "Because I can" just to play in the mud (Mud-In).

It all depends on application, location and if you have a way there and back.

Regards,
Sapper.

I guess it is how you interpreted the question, i guess if it is wet mud even those flat boats with big fans used in the everglades could be used (forgot the name of those)

Air boats.

How about a hovercraft. Smaller recreational hovercraft are also available that may be an option.

jack of all trades,

I was thinking of something like that tank on your profile... I think that hovercraft that are large enough to carry that weight are quite huge. maybe I'm wrong.

btw.. this is the link to that other vehicle I was talking about

Chris

I was thinking of something like that tank on your profile

Changing gear in the Centurion tank is a real pain, it has no clutch and you have to do three things simultaneously to change gear.

btw.. this is the link to that other vehicle I was talking about

Oh yes, that design. I think you are better off with a hovercraft design over this.

I think that hovercraft that are large enough to carry that weight are quite huge. maybe I'm wrong

It really depends on what you want to do with it.

Exactly what are you trying to transport? How heavy? Is it long (like a tree)? Can you drag it or does it need to be supported? Is it bulky or have uneven weight distribution (that could cause certain vehicle types to "bog down" or tip over)? What is the Terrain like (hills, pockets of dense forest, surface water, changing terrain composition (ie - mud, then gravel, then sealed road, then back to mud, etc)? How far and how fast do you need to go? Does the load need support (is it fragile)?

In the end there is no perfect solution so it really depends on the load and the terrain you want to transport it across. Can you provide more information?

Russians have a way with transportation in the wilderness. Even their jet fighters can take off from unpaved roads.

Cool link.

I was thinking more towards big surface area to repel surface tension ...

I'm not actually building anything at the moment.. its just one of those things i've always wondered about. Mud could be considered almost the worst possible environment for vehicles. and therefore I wanted to know what state-of-the-art was in mud vehicles. I don't think 4 wheels (or less) is very effective. We've got a million designs for boats, cars, airplanes, subs, etc. (even spacecraft) but what about vehicles that really conquer mud? Snowmobiles are great for snow. 4x4 are great for sand and rock. mud is like chaos.. tracked and wheeled vehicles can become so gummed up.

So for arguments sake, lets say I'm looking for a load bearing capacity of 5 to 10 tons. a large truck like a dump truck.. in deep mud.. 2 feet deep. and yes.. changing terrain.. real off road.

Chris

What you are looking for is something with large flotation tires similar to those used in the arctic tundra, http://www.greatcanadiantravel.com/churchill_polarbear_tours.htm

Tiny picture in the headder, but you should get the idea.

I get that.. I'm only 3 hours from the Columbia Ice Fields.. so no need to go 1000 miles to Churchill Man. Chris

Your second picture is from a "mudin".

You should be able to clear land and then plow it with that Zil, when you're not using it for mucking about.

LL

This a version of what the US military rely on. Tough does not begin to describe it

http://www.oshkoshdefense.com/defense/products~lvsr~home.cfm

I like those, been trying to find one used from Europe. I want to convert one into an RV, have to change the gearing a bit to make it capable of highway speeds though. I have been looking at the TFFT style of vehicle. Seems to be quite a few available and as soon as the economic problems have time to peculate for a while I hope to get one fairly cheap.

I believe they will run 65 MPH as sold.

wow. That thing is scary awesome.

Speaking of screw drive, I saw this as a related link...here

So I guess what you are saying is that if I get myself one of those, I won't have to worry about being stuck in the mud?

one of which? I guess the answer is no regardless.

Seriously that zil screwdrive was just ferocious.

I think that should be part of another thread called "What's the best reason to get muddy?" and the answer is of course... Mudwrestling with scantily clad women! (engineering and technical women of course.. or why else would we be discussing it on CR4?)

How about chocolate pudding wrestling with Hungarian girls?

I guess it would be rude of offer to lick it off, not that I would do such a thing, no not me, never, just wrong in polite company... Would someone be so kind as to throw me down a rope so I can climb out of this hole I find myself in?

It's not rude at all, just ask this guy:

I took these photo's in 2006 here:

http://www.sziget.hu/festival_english

You might want to get stuck in the mud, sort of like running out of gas....

Very sporty, that will indeed keep the shaft pointing in the correct configuration. Reminds me of the SEMA show.

jack of all trades:

Yes, Hovercraft indeed. You've beaten me to it.

Hovercraft are best for the job from another point of view and that is ENERGY Efficiency compared to the behemoths pictured elsewhere in this thread.

Hope you are appreciated and your suggetion accepted.

Regards

D.Ramakrishna Naidu

First you need fill the ruts with water

One word UNIMOG.

It does seem a capable off-road vehicle.( and very cool. I want one) still... you really think he's getting out of there?

That's a little U300-U500 series unit, Get out???

Absolutely...They have Air Operated, individual Diff and Transfer Lockers, Portal Hubs (Axle enters Hub off centre) and the diff are clear and free by about 10inches above the Hub Centre.

They also have the benefit of heaps of power to weight.

You should see these things climb hills, rocks, hell anything apart from trees.

Great unit!!

I've wanted one for ages buy they can be hard to find 2nd hand.

Here ... check the spec for the base unit and think what these guys could do with them..!

http://www.unimog.com.au/index.php?id=110

Regards,
Sapper.

A buddy of mine in the UK just offered me his, seems his family is growing and need a bigger camper. i am just waiting on his asking price to make up my mind. They are a bit short, as in wheel base, and I would need to tow my Land Rover behind. With a longer wheelbase truck I can carry in on-board. I sent Oshkosh an e-mail last night, be interesting to hear what they have to say. All I really need is a cab and chassis truck, the rest I can fabricate.

Chris look at the wake in front of that monster. It will drive out of that bog.

Helicopter -- go over mud

I found a couple more.. The Rolligon Corp (now owned by National Oilwell Varco)

and the um....

and this has some gansta style to it!

Chris

My take totally!!~---You beat me to it! Why bother with friction, when you can take to the air?---We are not fighting ww1 and ww2 anymore---think outside of the box---go up!! C-MAC

someone allready beat me to the Tank & helicopter comment

how about this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6uaDaS3usc

or this

Or you could try a MOROOKA!

How about the Czech Tatra 813, they're used to great effect in off-road truck trials.

those are great trucks, do very well in the Dakar, herd to get over here though, and I don't even want to think about parts. I have even considered converting a Kenworth 6000 series truck to a 4x4 or a 4x6 depending on the configuration I can find at the insurance auctions. Still hunting...

Hagglunds, (Sweden) made a tracked vehicle for the Army/Royal Marines. This was capable of 'swimming' rivers, climbing ice slopes of 1 in 1, (tracks could have studs fitted) and motoring ashore from a mile out at sea. The rear half could carry 11 fully armed troops or heavy equipment and the vehicle was designed to operate at -50 to +50°C. The certification trials we carried out were horrendous and the vehicle came through it all with distinction.

I went looking for Hagglunds.. and hit the mother lode of offroad and other vehicles on youtube.. its great.

hagglund
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYm5USbSt8c

quadski
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq8Fn55axd4&feature=related

litvina
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwA_8zDqKsw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d617MZl3WVY&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYPpHbUwrN0&feature=related

livina atv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpy2NGLkKSo&feature=related

baruch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adrw4SrGDOo&feature=related

stoltz cement spreader
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdn9-8v9gcQ&feature=related

case tractor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3878-jgv-k&feature=related

case quadtraC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSJoVev7crE&feature=related

OLD TRACKED TRACTOR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od5GtxVHrnI&feature=related

ZIL
AQUADA BOAT CAR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQXFYhbVRB8&feature=related

TRACKED ATV'S
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HyZ-raQseg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NbSTOdlOgo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRPHT9wm5cI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWiXIoINcb0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E000sU8-Rc&feature=related

MJCQ WWII jeep BREN CARRIER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zEy9ops5Rg&feature=related

FASTTRACK1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnzpS8Xhqog&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZTg9X13JvE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I363VZF2gZ4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtMuzB69fp8&feature=related

LOGLOGIC SOFTTRACK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTv9tU29onI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbnwaiULbFg&feature=related

CATAGATOR
1966 Catagator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFu2WNMqCH8&feature=related

TRACKSTER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A93CkzNfrc&NR=1

ARGO AVENGER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0sWCJdZ60Y&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhYJDGILamg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgx_ZBWthNs - six-wheeler forked-suspension raider

another cool vehicle.

Now this is MUD... about 2 hours drive from me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTmtdXdvpNo&NR=1

The Desert Raider is not the BEST vehicle for carrying load through DEEP mud- at least, the video does not show any interaction of the vehicle with MUD. It's a waste of time on this thread, sorry to say.

regards to Yuval

D.Ramakrishna Naidu

You could simply rate it "Off-Topic" - not that it would downgrade the fun on this nasty rock climber

Wow... I'll have to come back to this when I have more time. I have next week off work but someone found out so it looks like I'm fitting a kitchen instead of lazing around.

Of course there's always:

Yes, she could go places... and the horse too!

Especially with this horse ...

Trojan Horse ? A horse is a horse is a horse of course

Ha ha ha .. thats fabulous!

How deep is the mud? Volvo,and a few others, make a 6X6 articulating dumptruck that will do just fine in up to 4' or so of soft mud. I have used one and they're really fun.

I wonder if any of these survive.

Citroen Kegress?

There is a vehicle designed for the U.S. military that is capable of producing those type of results. The vehicle in question has been around for many years and it has yet to find a rival, so it remains in serves to this day. It is called the HMMT or the Hemmitt. Its military designation is the M977 cargo truck. It has the classic military underated load capasity of 14 tons and is 8 wheel drive.

I have seen this thing in action and it is amazing!!!!

The military 5 ton is also capable but not as much as the Hemmitt. We lost a few clutches in the swamps of Missippi while on maneuvers in or 5 tons. Never a problem out of any of or HMMT's

I have been trying to find one of those in the surplus market, the HMMT, be easier to find hen's teeth.

sorry thet is HEMTT not HMMT

Isn't this basically the same Oshkosh class of vehicle as in #19?

Chris

It is an Oshkosh vehicle actually. Unobtanium from what I have been able to find unless you want to pay 50k plus, which is a bit over my budget for my RV project.

Yes it is. Oshkosh makes a few styles of trucks for the military. If you google used oshkosh trucks, there are many used concrete delivery trucks, and some flat bed and tankers out there. None of them were the independent suspension designs though. You might get lucky, and find a used airport crash truck. You would have to loose the tank, and middle body, but they are cheap, and seldom have over 25,000 miles on them.

Just found Firetec.com and they have a very nice Seagrave aerial truck that could be converted. What I am going to do with the aerial ladder and pumps I have no idea. Going to be a lot of extra equipment to take off, my wife is going to kill me.

Kevin,

So where are you going to use this offroad RV? I spend almost 40 years in the Ottawa area. lived in Perth, Balderson, Carleton Place, Kanata, Nepean, etc. (a cottage in Fitzroy when I was a kid)

Chris

Hi Chris

it will essential be a toy hauler for when i do my yearly 'walkabout' tour to the US southwest. I go to the SEMA show every year and then hit the road to follow my nose. I want to build a vehicle that can be used as a base-camp, I hate to pay for hotels much prefer camping. The off road part will be rather light off road, more like unimproved secondary roads. I will have my Defender in the back of the truck for anything serious. I started this project last winter as a design exercise and it has gained a life of it's own. It is also an interesting challenge in recycling.

As to the Ottawa area I have lived here for 50 years, and I know all the places you listed very well, especially the back roads and trails. The Ottawa valley is a fantastic place, be it hiking, ATVs or 4WD, lots of places to play.

Have a look at the trucks here.

http://www.truckpaper.com/modelList.asp?manu=OSHKOSH&bCatID=27

Did you get the red 73, or the yellow 78? Those trucks are not FWD, or AWD. In there original life, they would never be taken off road. The ladder, pump and tank might be salable. If you want to try, let me know.

I am looking into getting the yellow Seagrave (1979). Looks like a good donor vehicle once I strip off all the fire appliance extras. No idea what i am going to do with the pumps, tank and ladder, probably scrap it all, but the chassis and the cab is workable. the price is right too. I sent Firetec an inquiry and will follow up next week, just so they know I am serious. On the other hand if I wait a few months, and let the economy detereate more the prices will drop significantly. Since I am burried in snow up here and I will be working out of doors for this project I can afford to wait a short time. This vehicle will not be seeing any real serious off road, nothing nastier that unimproved secondary dirt roads, it will be a toy hauler, some place to live as a base camp for when I go walk-about. This vehicle also gives me a place to stay when I go to events like the Jeep Easter Safari in Moab UT, SEMA in Vegas, or one of the Pro Truck short course races. I spend a couple thousand a year on hotels covering event like this, so building an RV seems to be the solution. Having a 'garrage' on the back also removes a LOT of worry about braking parts on the trail, granted it is hard to make a Land Rover totaly disabled, I just do not want to push my luck. Should I brake it that bad, I just winch it back onto the hauler and head for a shop to do repairs. This project being so OFF-THE-WALL is also great advertizing for our magazine, and you never know I might even be able to make some money off the fool thing.

I missed what magazine you are speaking of?

OOPS, silly me.

www.difflock.com the magazine is free, we used to be print, decided to save a lot of money on the post production side and go green, advertizments pay for most of it in any case.

I really enjoyed that! what a great magazine

Thank you, we work hard to make it good reading. tell everyone you know additional circulation is a good thing. All the issues back to #1 are available as well.

I really enjoy writing for them, and I will soon have a blog space on Difflock, once at least one of my projects takes off, and CR4 has offered me a blog space here as well. The other project is a repower of my Land Rover Defender 90 along with stretching it out to 100 inch. Volkswagen is trying to find me a V10 Toureg that is a writeoff as a donor and I am hunting for a Dodge diesel 4x4 as a donor. I had no idea how hard it would be to find a 2002 or newer write-off Dodge, seems people just don't crash them

Are you sure they're never crashed?....or are they just worth repairing?

Landrovers are very tough - I know of one which veered off the road to miss a deer, ploughed through a dry stane dyke, rolled 100m through saplings before bouncing over another wall into a stream.

The windows were all smashed and every panel needed replaced, but the frame - and the two occupants at the time - got off with minor scratches!!

Insurance repaired it for less than 50% of replacement cost.

They are indeed very tough, i rolled my Discovery, full 360 in the air one on the ground, and flattened a couple trees while doing it. I shifted her into low range and drove back onto the road. I would have driven home but I holed the differential casing but did not have any JB-weld with me to repair it. Funny part; I was the safety sweep vehicle for a rally and ended up being removed on a flat bed. On the way back we stopped for a coffee, turned out the coffee shop was the final check point. The rally organizers just stood there, mouth hanging open, staring at the truck. They sort of stuttered out a: are you OK? My reply was; Yup just fine now I have a coffee.

The truck as it turned out was a rust bucket and thankfully was a write off, which I bought back. Quite an eye opener in quality control when I took it apart.

The pump is a very expensive piece of iron. You should be able to sell it. It is driven by the main driveshaft. The system removes the cross-member and hanger bearing behind the transmission. The water pump, and pump transmission go in place of that. The driver puts the main transmission in neutral, then puts the pump transmission in pump position, then the main trans is put back in the proper position. Power from the engine goes to the main transmission, which is in direct drive. The output from the main transmission feeds the power to the pump transmission, which sends it up to the water pump. The other pump transmission position sends the power directly back to the rear axle. The pump shift causes the main transmission to go to th direct drive gear, and lock up the torque converter. Stay tuned for more details.

Interesting, makes getting it back on the road even more fun.

If it is an aerial, it will have a hydraulic system to power it. What you may not know is that it will also have a vehicle leveling system. It is designed to support the entire load of the vehicle, so that the ladder will not rock on the suspension, and can be set to level the truck and have the ladder steady while up in the air. It comes in handy when changing tires.

Most times the hydraulics for this are driven by the flywheel of the engine.

With the water tank, pump panel, water pump, plumbing, hose bed, and ladder removed, you should have a good bit of room for an RV. If you can salvage any of the compartments, they should be strong, and will come in handy.