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spacecannon
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Shipping Container Housing

01/16/2010 12:05 PM

I have a civil engineer friend whoose dream it is to design and build shipping container housing for general use and for emergency use, like an instant city for Haiti. Im trying to motivate him to live his dream, so what does everyone think about container housing?

spacecannon

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cwarner7_11
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#1095
In reply to #1092
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/23/2010 11:44 AM

CaptMoosie-

I really like the idea of mixing the government offices with the prison...keeps likes together with likes...
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chrisg288
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#1099
In reply to #1092
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/23/2010 12:46 PM

Thank you Captain.

I believe the three colors I used are basically the 3 Haitian colors based on my googling. However, not the only colors that might be appropriate to Haitian Recovery, or presidential palaces (white?) and then again, who really has paint available or the time to apply it? I'm only really suggesting that perhaps if such similarly colored containers show up, perhaps they can be grouped according to color prior to assembly, to make color location planning easier. I'm just making concept art here.

I only know what has been said is that the President does not want to work in a building that can collapse. The images (although someone marked it OT without giving me guidance) CAN really help this effort for container housing for Haitians, because having the President work/live in them is again, a huge symbol to the rest of Haiti for their effectiveness against local environmental elements, as well as being a symbol of recovery, fierce spirit, balance and grace.

We should and/or could have an opportunity to implement this building long before we can house a million people in containers, so doing this one right might engender much further support for our cause.

As to other buildings, I've only responded to the initial request for designs. Personally I like the 'underground' idea, and would tend to put other infrastructure campuses in appropriate soil and terrain underground. (and nearby)

Chris
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#1100

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/23/2010 2:53 PM

Using Microsoft Windows IE 8 here, and still screwed up this afternoon.

Matter of fact, ever since I downloaded this piece of crap software it's been nothing but trouble......even with the SP module installed and the local Computer Geekster going through the entire system after a piece of Malware attacked my hard-drive (in mid-December) by using my firewall as a gateway! UGHHHH!!!!

C-W, that'd be sweet......the "arrested thugs" of Haiti in the same compound and the Elected "thugs"???? Interesting concept!! *LOL* I'd love to implement it here, starting with the Congress, then the lawyers, next followed by a majority of the bankers of failed S&L's, and finally, Wall Street Investment House CEO's........ahhhh hell, anyone to do with causing the current economic mess we're in....and then there's the Derivatives bunch!!!! May they all rot in hell!!!

What makes me Madder than a Hatter, is the fact that IF Mr. John Q Public had perpetrated this mess he's either windup in prison for the remainder of his/her life or line up against a wall and shot. BUT NO, these jerks get away with it Scott Free (with the exception of our pal Bernie Maloff) in there beautiful multi-million homes with their trophy wives after arriving home nightly in their Bentleys or RR's. FAIR???? NOT ON YOU LIFE!!!!

If the President had REAL Brass Ones he would have each and every one of lined up on Federal Charges of one degree or another. Ohhh, we can't do that 'cause God Forbid I almost forgot he's a lawyer too at the slop trough...

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Transcendian
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#1102
In reply to #1100

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/23/2010 3:42 PM

Sorry you're having a bad Technical issues with computer programs day.

As far as what the current President ought to do to demonstrate brass balls, the President whomever he is, is not allowed to really do such things as you suggest by the constitution along with the bill of rights, if not tradition.

The president is in the Executive Branch of the Federal Government, and it is to the Judicial Branch that laws and how they are used are responsible.

Many laws have been put in place over time by the Legislative Branch.

Some are better than others.

What your posts have to do with Shipping Container Housing and Steel Tents is related to situations of law related to private property more in place and functioning in the US than in Haiti.

From an engineering viewpoint it is a stretch partly possible if you accept social engineering as a purview of the CR4 mission. Strictly speaking so far, while arguments have been made on the forum for social engineering to be a legitimate section for discussions on CR4, it would appear that you have drifted a bit off topic.

This is of course all right with me, since I do it myself, partly to keep things moving, for all work and no play makes jack dull.

The on topic thing I am most pushing now are Community Centers in Haiti made from the Shipping Containers.

It would be nice if Preval did start living in a Steel Tent.

As far as Chrisg's White House Prison Combo Phoenix Building, I wonder if that ambitions design is not best only tee shirted, or part spine done and we are better to focus on Food Distro, School and Hospital 16 point compounds?

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CaptMoosie
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#1103
In reply to #1102

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/23/2010 4:16 PM

Trans,

Just letting you now that my real fear regarding the size and number of containers shown in the Phoenix Compound is that it may cause a backlash with the general populace and against Pres. Preval and his cabinet. The "have-nots" will likely grow to resent him squandering valuable resources on himself rather that those who really are in need of nearly everything imaginable.

Sorry, got a bit off-target with my ranting post

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Transcendian
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#1106
In reply to #1103

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/23/2010 4:47 PM

Would probably be justified, though it is true that nationalism is strong, and major buildings that demonstrate building prowess are often undertaken by nations that ought to be doing something else.

People are funny.

Who knows, maybe such an edifice put together on the Palace Grounds of Port-au-Prince opened in a Jacksonian way to the Haitian people would work for them.

Apparently open ground is hard to find, so getting good structures placed on Palace Grounds may well be a good idea, regardless of its looks.

Architecture is really as much an art, as a science, and some say architecture is the first art, not to be underestimated.

I do feel that beauty of line to the eye of buildings from their exteriors matter in ways that matter in moving people in the right directions.

Actually while the Phoenix design is best seen from above, which is not a common point of view unless you are a bird, or flying, it does have some appeal due to the wild spaces at canted module placement.

However due to continuing and unpredictable seismic activity, plus the prospect of storms, the design represents complicated ingress and egress realities in storms or earthquake events.

One of the more successful building designs for a government building has been the Pentagon. We might be advised to look at that design, with an eye to using lessons from it to apply towards any design of great success possible using shipping containers in Haiti, now.

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chrisg288
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#1111
In reply to #1106

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/23/2010 9:52 PM

Yup
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chrisg288
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#1109
In reply to #1102

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/23/2010 9:39 PM

excellent GA
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AussieBob
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#1112
In reply to #1100

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/24/2010 2:44 AM

I think if you go back to page 11 the widescreen effect will re-appear on your screen - a function of an earlier posting on the page which increased the size of the browser page simply to accommodate the larger image. It has happened on other posts, for some reason it expands the width for all postings on the page.

Only my guess, but it seems to be the trend and I suspect you could get rid of it by simply adding empty posts to force a new page.
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ky
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#1114
In reply to #1112

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/24/2010 5:45 AM

G'day AB

Chris had settled this a while back. He admitted to causing the effup. I know not much about why it happened but it could not have happened because of bad intentions on 288's behalf but through the inability of the system to respond accordingly. Input does not conform with ability to cope, so to say.

If it would have happened to me I would not even know how to avoid it in the future. Should be dealt with by the system that runs the show. It was a bit unnerving to go wide screen but really, no damage done.

If people with bad intentions would find out about this, they could cause a lot of hassles and new comers to this excellent site would become irritated, clicking the 'get out of here real quick' button in no time at all.

It came out in the wash, so that is good, Ky.

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Kris
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#1115
In reply to #1114

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/24/2010 5:55 AM

Such mistakes have happened before and, in a thread somwhere, mgaulin did say he'd tidy them up if notified. Anway, the page with the pictures side-by-side has passed, so it's not too big a problem now. A minor faux-pas, which Chris was generous enough to fess up to.

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AussieBob
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#1116
In reply to #1115

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/24/2010 6:37 AM

Thanks for the heads-up chaps. I hadn't noticed the earlier explanation or Chris's ownership. I must admit I haven't being paying attention to every comment in the thread when the recent discussion topics have been more to do with colour schemes and furnishings.
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Kris
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#1117
In reply to #1116

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/24/2010 10:22 AM

Ta to you for taking time to ask Mark to sort it, Bob.

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#1101

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/23/2010 3:03 PM

Oh if you couldn't tell, I'm doing the following today instead of REAL office work:

1). Gathering all my Income Tax related paperwork to hand off to my wonderful Tax Preparer. My God save his soul!!! A good man and friend indeed!

2). Filling out several Real Estate Tax Exemption forms that only a lawyer could understand....ie, written by lawyers for lawyers! Even my Town Tax Assessor couldn't understand the verbage contained in one part of a form (and that includes the Instructions Booklet), that he suggested that I actually call the NYS Office of Real Property to get a straight answer from them......so far I've been on hold here 47 minutes waiting for someone to pickup the phone instead of the Idiot Voice Mailboxes!!! UGHHH there ought to be a law written about those flaming things!!!!!

Not a good day in Bedrock.....yabba dabbba doo!

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bwire
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#1118
In reply to #1101

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/24/2010 2:41 PM

I suppose today is a snow day

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Transcendian
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#1119
In reply to #1118

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/24/2010 3:13 PM

I myself reupped a blogsite I established as a placeholder in 2004. Trying to figure out moneymaking moves for my organization. Begging hasn't got much potential. Been ripped off some too.

Need money for lawyers and staff so I can hire people to make my site work as well as CR4 does, and make some money to work with.

Wife needs some money out of me.

It is supposed to snow tonight, but mostly its just raining a lot here in Carrboro, NC, today.

Donations to my site not coming in.

The black hats and the refrigerator magnets are nice.

Thought that the tattoo transfer program would make some money, but it never has.

Should donations appear, well I'd have to spend some on keeping my home going, but would like to buy a Shipping Container Home Office for Preval, and then work on the schools.

Progress through fun is getting problematic, as we are low on the fun factor these days.

I wish I still had a motorcycle.

Meantime, since I don't, ride the mindwaves and dream visions of faster better waves for the properly educated and perfectly insured.

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bwire
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#1120
In reply to #1119

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/24/2010 3:52 PM

While traveling around the country these last 15 years I have more than few times spied a seat and handle bars attached to a fence waiting for a windy day and imagination

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#1131

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/25/2010 9:34 PM

Here is a short term solution as found by member Sue

http://planetgreen.discovery.com/work-connect/send-tent-haiti.html?campaign=daily_nl
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packrat561
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#1134

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/25/2010 11:10 PM

Oops!

Sorry , I was looking for the shipping container housing thread, this is apparently the oil & NG deposit, tidal electric generating, global warming warning, solar weenie roaster site.

No, the title says: Shipping Container Housing.

So for those that insist on making off-topic posts, there's a special place , just for you.

I , on the other hand would like to know what progress has been made moving this thread's theme from the conceptualizing phase to the implementation phase?

Also, do any of the practical, pragmatic, mechanics/engineers have an idea for a non- power driven device to make cuts in the containers to facilitate ventilation? Besides an axe? Must be something like an old fashioned bayonet can opener scaled up? Some kind of rescue tool?

From actually working on converting containers into human habitable space, I can tell you getting the heat out of them is very, very important.

First step; paint them white, PERIOD.

Second step; cut a large number of rectangles in the sides, leaving the top portion attached enough so as when it is bent up it forms an awning.Install some window screen , attach the screen by gluing the edges with adhesive caulking.

All the above can be accomplished with ZERO power tools, power in whatever form , will be in short supply.

Let's think about using the resources on hand, A LARGE POOL OF INDUSTRIOUS, CURRENTLY IDLE MANPOWER.

They don't need labor saving devices, they need labor employing devices.

Give them the tools and feed them , they'll do the rest.

Packrat

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ky
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#1135
In reply to #1134

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/25/2010 11:28 PM

packrat561

Well done Mate. If there is anyone more frustrated than you are, it must be me and another member of CR4 who have some of the solutions to what you or better the situation is asking for. Not long now I keep saying, not long now.

I am working on it, Ky.

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#1137
In reply to #1134

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 12:34 AM

If i had to choose a particular tool to be the most helpful, I would choose a gas powered abrasive saw. It can get extensive use clearing rubble, cutting concrete, steel, and whatever, and is a good tool for cutting shipping container mods.

I would suggest that chimneys if available can really add airflow to the container, and cut in small vent holes about 1 foot up the side around the perimeter of the container. air will flow in these holes, and up the chimney. also, I've integrated the tarp and the chimney.. I know it will make the tarp hard to take down, so it will have to have a split and velcro or something.

Chris
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Geoff Daly
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#1148
In reply to #1137

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 12:53 PM

Chris,

great rendition of what you have previopusly posted.

Agree on need for airflow...Packrat also recommends white paint for heat reflection can we get white Tarp material used for the water gathering and UV proof?

your idea for a gas powered cut abrasive saw is good idea, but in speaking with Norton/Saint-Gobain there special abrasive blades coated in diamond dust to ensure good life cannot be mistreatd or the break...regular blades are good but on Corten would wear out too quickly...around 100 linear feet per blade at $8.00 per blade in boxes of 50....rather expensive (also losts of abrasive dust as well as the blade becomes smaller..the Diamond coated ones are good for maybe 800 to 1000 linear feet before refurbishing cost $80.00 each min 10 (refurbishing around $15-$20 in batches of 10).

Seems Plasma is the cheapest alternative..see my posting on costs etc.

Geoff Daly NH

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#1139
In reply to #1134

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 1:51 AM

Here's the smoke, A36 steel having yield of about 36,000 psi, Coeten about 50,000 psi and 4130 about 75,000 - 85,000 psi.

Hammers and cold chisels will work corten steel.

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#1141
In reply to #1134

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 6:53 AM

garthh opened a thread specifically devoted to the problem of cutting doors and windows into containers.

I posted a possible solution there - basically a big can opener.
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#1142
In reply to #1141

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 9:22 AM

Sceptic,

read your post in the related window and door thread, good answer , that's exactly the kind of thinking that can help the situation, right now.

They don't need pie in the sky , un achievable , " thinking out side the box" , ideas.

They need thinking inside the box, namely a big box of tools.

Send a cadre of instructors down there with cutting torches and a other ESSENTIAL, non-locally available tools, and start fabricating the tools they need, and instruct them in their use. Then turn the locals loose to build/convert what they need.

This would be along the lines of Kyzine's oft repeated premise; and I paraphrase, " don't feed them fish, teach them to fish".

Packrat

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#1146
In reply to #1134

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 12:06 PM

Personally I think it is quite all right to go a bit off topic.

It's my fault that issues of energy, and water are part of the discussion concerning Shipping Container Housing since a real house has plumbing and electricity, at least in the modern world.

Certainly water is extremely important as people cannot live without it, and in history homes have been abandoned no matter their otherwise utility, when water dried up.

We reached out to Clemson U specifically because their designs included water systems and some food growing designs.

Sometimes I bring up issues that relate practically in the real world to the use of shipping containers, or any sort of solid structure that must be addressed if we really want to see these structures, or potential structures applied.

One issue that really will hold back the use of Shipping Containers is what they represent, which is a claim to the property by those living in them.

I don't want to speak too much out of turn, but am aware that there is movement afoot to create a facilitating legal framework more likely to provide a supply chain.

I am pleased that work is being done in the important areas of property rights, and deeds.

By about post 145 we were pretty much aware of the fact that the shipping container conversion industry was a mature industry.

The White Paper is out to my local US Congressman, which was about the best I could get done, and I am sorry I didn't accomplish that sooner.

As far as competing shelter designs, it is good all are discussed, same as when you do a business plan, it is good to know what competition you might have for what you propose to make, or what service you intend to provide.

In Fact I am for creating a Business Plan that works for commercial enterprises whose support is just as, if not more important than support within governments and public institutions like the UN.

My own invention Transcendia.org is unfortunately underfunded dramatically, outerwise as Founder and CEO, and janitor, I'd simply buy from my treasury some tools and at least one Shipping Container and have a go at it.

I figure I might have to simply use that funny old tool, money to really get anything done.

Transcendian theory revolves around Ports so I'd be buying land to build on either at the airport, or the seaport.

I might have to hire Aristide to hire a reliable Security Force.

His support in Cite Soleil is a factor that roils there on the ground of no small importance for whomever is trying to live in a prosperous and civil way in that area.

I have proposed in Tweets that Aristide be appointed by Ban Ki Moon to the Clinton Bush Haiti Fund. He's acually an ex president president of the place, for Gods Sake!

Another CR4 issue is the issue of us getting along.

We are an international group and do come from some differing cultures.

When I lived in Canada I found out they were not the same as USAians.

They could tell me why they hated me in English!

Course what they called a Milk Shake was some horrible thing otherwise known as a Malted Milk, which is horrible!

They make good beer though...

I encourage us to be as tolerant of each other as we would like to be tolerated here on this Forum.

We all have our limits, and Chris L has to answer to people I simply do not know well. He and the administration simply have guidelines that not even they are likely always happy with.

Captain Moosie, while he can be abrasive, has attempted to lighten up specifically by going off topic, so I'm not going to fault that for it is simply part of how people get along.

It is true according to my remember, that Captain Moosie brought Shipping Containers up in the Thread about Haitian Building Codes, that spawned this Thread, so the old Hippie saying: Go With The Flow, is applicable.

Let's be Cheery. We're making progress.

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#1147
In reply to #1134

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 12:37 PM

Packrat561,

some good ideas on openings and painting...still need an intermediate cover with air space and paint both structures.

As far as cutting Corten steel...no a can opener type cutter will not work...remember the sides are not straight but are a series of bumps/valleys for strength. and average wall is between 2.8 to 3.8 mm thick and Corten is tough stuff..even with a good hack saw blade. Even an old Hurst rescue tool will not function unless hydraulic and is not intended for continuous use like we need.

The only real way is to use a controlled Plasma cutter (current cost for lots of 20 from Hypertherm, ESAB, Miller or Lincoln is approx $3,000.00 each...with three tips will cut more than 15,000 linear feet of Corten steel but does need min 220 volt single phase supply to be really effective... min 25 amps at 220 volt single phase)...very simple and easy to use and only need a supply of compressed air at around 60 to 90 psig and upto 100 SCFM flow available.

Going any other way will be nye on impossible even with all the spare labor ...plasma cutter on Corten can cut at around 5 feet per min when done correctly...will need to use a cupped/shielded nozzle for ease and speed.

Agree with your idea to use the cut-outs for an awning over the hole area...but you cannot bend due to bumps/valleys so would need an angle edge welded and then maybe hinge to opening so they can be closed for safety etc.

Geoff Daly NH

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#1150
In reply to #1147

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 2:02 PM

I've cut up a couple of ships with propane cutting torches, and cut metal with oxy cetaline, and cut with metal cut blades on my Makita skill saw, and cut steel with portable bandsaws, and Plasma torches, and sawsalls, and hit it with chisels and hammers, and hacksaws, and drilled it and from my experience with steel I'd be really really surprised if a regular old cutting torch using propane didn't work fine as opposed to your position regarding plasma cutters.

I blew through ships decking 1/2 and 3/4s inch thick all day long with propane.

Plasma cutter tips are really pretty delicate.

Blades wear down pretty quick on grinders and saws cutting metal.

I've put the plan out in stages where at the point of port delivery a headquarters existed so cutting and welding machines and tools could do ad hoc work to help either move the damn things or modify them as possible. This was intended to address shortages of important tools, and aid in causing the deployment of the structures.

Sure enough plasma cutters are great, but a regular old torch is good enough, and a right deal cheaper.

Further while Plasma cutters are well suited to the singular job of modifying shipping containers I am not certain that specialization is what we really want, for we may want to be able to cut any metal in the way.

I did make a call to my expert, and will hopefully get more information from him. I have another expert to consult with to help me arrive at a final judgement.

I have to say that I personally hate to do long cuts of thick metal with electrically powered tools.

For long cuts I just want to cut it with a torch, and if I've got to deburr it with a grinder, fine.

- the exception is roofing tin, which I cut with a hand saw fitted with a metal cut blade.

Roofing tin, and corrugated steel are well suited to being cut with electric powered tools.

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#1154
In reply to #1147

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 10:54 PM

I've seen a group of determined Asian's make swiss cheese out of 4130 3/16Th's plate with cold chisels and hammers.

CORTEN is tough but 4130 trumps it by a sight so I think I think we may be under estimating a bit.

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#1155
In reply to #1154

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 11:54 PM

Hi bwire,

Good point. And the $3,000.00 quoted for a single plasma cutter would buy a lot of cold chisels and 3-lb hammers. Fit more in a shipping container too.

Packrat

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#1156
In reply to #1155

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 11:59 PM

But, the NOISE. You'd hear it from the moon.

S.

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#1157
In reply to #1156

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 12:07 AM

But, the NOISE. You'd hear it from the moon.

Okay, okay, we'll throw a box of disposable earplugs in each container of chisels.

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#1158
In reply to #1157

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 12:57 AM

how about a simple set of nibbling shears.. cut a hole.. dig in. something like the following. do they exist? (or did I just invent something new?) tool steel of course.

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#1159
In reply to #1158

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 1:25 AM

The lower illustration shows the basic scheme of what is known as a "nibbler." They can be pneumatically or electrically powered. I don't know if they can handle 10-gauge, or whatever is the maximum wall of containers, but I would guess that some of them can.

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#1160
In reply to #1158

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 2:17 AM

Chris, you've drawn a set of shears. A nibbler has a reciprocating cutter, assembled through an 'anvil', most of 'em cutting on the pull stroke. Cutter breakage being part of the safety factor. Most of the commercially available nibblers are limited to 1mm in stainless, 1.5 in sheet such as gal. or zincalume and about 2mm in Al. My nibblers are good for about 30m before the cutter gets dull, liberally lubricated with compound/oil. They're then a throw-away.

The problem with shears is the offcut need to bend out of the way to allow progression of the shear. How do you bend convoluted, and square section at that, Corten out of the way of the progressing shear? Take a piece of paper/stiffcard and scissors to illustrate what I mean.

We could use a nibbler to handle 3-4mm Corten, to cut our containers. It'd need to be a monster. I'm on the cusp of asking a Taiwanese tool maker to develop one for just such an industry as ours. So far we use a plasma cutter and abrasive discs.

Nibbler would be soooo much easier. And cleaner to use, as well as not having to clean up the cut after the torch.

Cheers,

Stu

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#1163
In reply to #1160

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 10:27 AM

Stu,

what about adapting a milling wheel with the replaceable Carbide cutting triangles made by Sandvik etc and using this. adapted to varispeed type grinder head,but make it narrow enough and small dia so as to go between the valleys...put side guides to ensure flat cut?

As they wear rotate to next face then after the third replace etc...may not need lubricant, just water to keep cool if not run too fast. Have used 3/16" wide mill discs with replaceable triangles of narrow cross section inserts.....were profiled to hold bits in and clamped in with a setscrew ring. Can also put small chip shield around like you have on a circular saw

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#1164
In reply to #1163

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 11:48 AM

It's a shell cutter

Same problem as with endmills

It's gonna be hard to find to find a cheap grinder that runs at a slow enough speed

Alot like the mag drill & plasma cutter solutions, it'll work but the price is not gonna make sense.

when the tools get too expensive, they're gonna disappear & get turned into food...

A nibbler that could be made out of old leaf springs would be great, my gut says the steels not hard enough.

a tool like that would need to be able to cut at least 400-500 feet of cuts between sharpenings to have any chance of being practical.

A starting hole of 1/2" or less.

Hand operated compound action like a bolt cutter.
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#1168
In reply to #1160

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 12:52 PM

Thanks Stuey,

I don't know if it appropriate to cross-seed these threads... but I guess not everyone reads the other one. (or this one. )

Chris
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#1161
In reply to #1156

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 2:55 AM

Give'em something to talk about

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#1165
In reply to #1155

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 11:51 AM

Yeah right, $3,000 for a plasma cutter only if you're buying a Miller, Lincoln or some other Top of the Line cutter. Although quality machines, their still mucho overpriced....basically paying for the name afterall.

You can pickup a relatively cheap Chinese-made 50 Amp/220 VAC plasma cutter in Ebay for roughly $220 or so if you're lucky with the Bidding. Problem is that they'll disappear faster than you know what overnight when no one is looking......there is most likely a flourishing Black Market now in Haiti!!!! If you do go with a Chinese made machine make sure it has at least Mosfett (sp?) inverters and GE manufactured capacitiors, etc etc etc , otherwise you're throwing Good $$$ after Bad $$$.

I still think that an Oxyie torch will do just fine for most cutting. It's fast, economical and better yet, easy to teach any one how to properly and safely use with a little training...

Yuppp, signed the "abrasive" CaptMoosie...well, what can I say gents, at least I know how to engineer my way out of a wet soggy brown paper bag. OHHHMYYY I may have tweaked some sensitivities.....my ears and antlers are "burning" now, so there must be few nasty-gram PM's flying back and forth amongst the self -righteous of the bunch herein.....

BTW, I didn't like at all the undignified "RFI to the Corpse of Engineers" quip by Mr. PackRatus...them is fighting words where I hail from. Please keep your vulgar trashiness zipped up for the sake of all involved. Totally inexcusable IMHO.

SO, ENOUGH OF THE MUDSLINGING!

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#1166
In reply to #1165

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 12:13 PM

You mean the same

corpse of engineers

who oversaw the levees in NOLA?

& looked the other way while millions of cubic yards of substandard fill was used?
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#1167
In reply to #1166

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 12:42 PM

Sub-standard seems to go around allot in NOLA

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#1169
In reply to #1166

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 1:51 PM

PLEASE TAKE NOTICE:

In regard to cutting holes in the containers for whatever reason:

MAY IT FUN FOR THE HAITIANS FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!

Teach them how to makeup homemade THERMITE. It's a fairly easy formulation to follow and not that difficult to make....just a little bit dangerous at some points.

Once done making the stuff (a clayey-like consistency), just roll it out in long ribbons and affix to the steel......then light it and stand back. It'll reach over 4,000 F and cut through the steel like hot butter knife cutting through cold butter stick.....whhhhh laaaaa, you're done and only need to grind the edges. Cheap to make too, and most ingredients are even readily available in Haiti this very minute.

I could teach several Haitians how to make it in as little as a hour! We'll call them Moosie's Marauders

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#1170
In reply to #1169

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 3:01 PM

Captain,

there's enough crime and violence in Haiti already, they don't need explosives or better ways to perform Break'N'Enters... but you could teach me how to make it!

I think your response was fair and accurate regarding the military power structure. the blind following of orders is great for battlefields, but does not serve appropriately for non-battle situations, imho. Perhaps the military could develop a different decision-making structure for civilian based conduct such as peacetime engineering.

I have to disagree with the notion of 'little real engineering skill' being found on here. That is just grossly inaccurate. This CR4 place is overrun with very skilled, knowledgeable and experienced engineering people. While you may be in the top few percent for your areas of interest, (and I'm not qualified to judge) using force to teach does NOT work. Force only works for defeating enemies, not building knowledge or networks. If one looks around here (cr4) with a sincere and respectful eye, you will find a great deal of solid practical engineering knowledge. It is a gold mine for someone like me. (yes, I am the center of the world. at least my world)

but there is still time for you (and others including me) to practice diplomacy, which will be required in dealing with your own customers anyway.

I personally respect yours (and everyone else's) knowledge, experience, and contribution. I have never attacked you or anyone else. conversely, I haven't been attacked either, but have been disagreed with. I think that is fair. Its about the ideas, not the person. This is a circle, not a pyramid. Its organic, not hierarchical. We need you, but won't die without any individual contributor, Because it is an organic network. (CR4 servers & admin excluded of course) but what makes CR4 awesome is the diversity and depth of the contributors.

Chris
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#1171
In reply to #1170

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 3:18 PM

Dear Chris,

Thank you for your fair appraisel...yes it's fair and candid and I thank you for it.

I'll be the first admit it that I sometimes get uppity and that has to change. My apologies to all for being too outspoken. I hope that I don't come across as a physical treat to any body. that's isn't my nature or way.

No fear about my dealing with clients. I treat them damn well, even to the point of almost kissing arse. If they're wrong about something technically, I deal with it in a logical diplomatic nature.

Have a god day Sir!

Now Chris, about me showing you how to make Termite...... *LOL* To avoid jail time at the hands of Homeland Security, may I instead suggest you look for an appropriate Utube video!!!!

You may be correct that some Haitians may end up using the stuff for devious means....like cutting a hole in the safe door at their National Treasury (if one still exists)......

It is fun stuff to play with, especially the Mil grade stuff!!! hehehehheheh Geoff's played with this stuff before I'm sure!

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#1186
In reply to #1171

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/28/2010 12:43 AM

CaptMossie,

Have I played with Thermite and Firex......cuts like butter, concrete, steel (all types) and gives a nice shaped hole very clean and quick...also works on big power line towers, bridge supports..cut at a slip angle and catch them keel over even a multi storey steel girdered parking garage (5 stories and full of vehicles...about 600...were the locals pissed)....Mil spec is even better and easier to handle.

Chris, not good to play with if not handled properly and HLS not too happy knowing how it is made ...but is on youtube though.

Geoff Daly NH.

PS was yours lite fused or fulminate type?

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#1187
In reply to #1186

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/28/2010 1:54 AM

Well I need some.

Cutting penetrations in these'ere containers is no joke.

Talked with Chrisg on another thread about nibblers etc. Unfortunately we need clear hole penetrations. The good folks in Haiti don't.

Effective ventilation, and light ingress, can be made by simply 'drilling' a series of holes in a pattern. If you turned up there with a big bagful of Chassis Broaches (punches! Someone described them in an earlier post.) of , say 2'', and 3'', you'd be able to, after drilling pilot holes for the forcing screw, punch out a series of holes in paterns. Square, Round. You could turn the entire thing into a colander on the sides. Good security, except for firearms, etc. Punch a row of holes and 'unzip' it. Hacksaw or whatever. Could probably start an industry to use the 'dumps' too. (For those that don't, the dump is the centre of the donut, when they used to make 'em by hand)

Would give rise to another trade too. Broach Sharpener.

Need to keep out the rain etc? As someone else said, rivet pieces of conveyor belting or some such fabric over the perforation, top hung, and devise a suitable tiedown to keep it reasonably shut. They'll find a way.

Cheers,

Stu.

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#1189
In reply to #1187

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/28/2010 7:41 AM

Stu,

Called a GreenLee hole punch tool available as standard up to 4" dia as standard after that are special order

http://www.mygreenlee.com/GreenleeDotCom/products/upc/images/7304.jpg

Yes, could start a reasonable sharpening industry and for cold chisels if used.

Then use bywires idea, cut up a car tyre and secure over hole...allows clearance and is covered by a small arc of the tire or if bigger set of hole.....you can if careful make a seried of holes inline by positonimg the cutting faces so the non pull indent face is just ovet the opposing holes edge...gives a nices scalloped feature to the edges...then hang the coveyor belting with the rubber tyre section either end to make stand-offs.

Geoff Daly NH

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#1190
In reply to #1189

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/28/2010 12:45 PM

Geoff,

Good going with nailing that parking garage! LOL Imagine the surprise of the bad guys!!!!

Ya gotta love stuff like Thermite for cutting-up just about anything imaginable.......any where from taking down a few buildings, power transmission towers, bridges of all types, and there's my fav, ordinance disposal!!!!! Did mega doses of that after DS with captured Iraqi Ord bunkers......nothing like "lighting the fuse" on several thousand tons of HE ord!!!!! hehehehe

Also a very nice way to permanently cut-up captured Iraqi armor, Arty and mortar pieces into non-usable junk *GRINZ*

Answering your question, torched it off using both ways......but I prefer timed det chord just to get outta Dodge before the sh-t flies, know what I mean, with an extra FS?

Screw HLS, why ruin Chris' fun, eh? *EVIL GRINZ* Anyhow, since the kittie has been let out of the baggie with so many postings on WWW, I don't know why they get their undies in a bunch so quickly. Also, you know Youtube has some serious kick-ass rocket fuel recipes amongst other goodies.

By the time you and I are done with teaching Chris the finite points of being a sapper he'll want to gone around blowing up neat things.

Jessszzzz, ya'd think I had a chemistry set when I was a wee lad, eh? I was also a Boy Scout, and You know they love flame things..... LOL

Chris, with that long laundry list of stuff from the junk pile I'll need my "Merlin's Magic Wand" for starters! LOL We'll see what we can do for you to transform the junk into potable water, but can't promise anything....mmmmm maybe make some mud pies outta it instead......now, on the otherhand you want to cut up some steel boxes ans make concrete pebbles very quickly, then I've already given you and the others a heads-up how! *E-T-E GRINZ* Sorry, no can do with providing Thermite grenades or linear cutting charges....or C-4

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#1191
In reply to #1190

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/28/2010 12:52 PM

GO USA HOCKEY!!!!

so sorry Chris, but i gotta go with the home team ya know....not taking away anything from Team Canada...your team is damn good!

Besides, we gotta catch up with you guys regarding Gold medals earned anyhow!!!

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#1192
In reply to #1191

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/28/2010 1:53 PM

thanks captain.. the game hasn't aired yet (at least here) so we'll see what magic happens...

I came across this set of links.. the monolithic apparently claims to be hurricane proof.

http://www.monolithic.com/
http://www.onedomeatatime.org/

Chris
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#1193
In reply to #1192

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/28/2010 3:04 PM

Hi Chris

The game has already played out. We are 15 hours ahead of you. Here is the result:

Canada 7 USA 2

Wishful thinking?

Good luck, go you good thing, Ky.

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#1194
In reply to #1193

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/28/2010 6:47 PM

Final Answer 3-2 Canada, but ohmygod it was close. great athletics all around.

we came so close to a repeat of the world juniors, but this time the dice tipped the other way.

Woohoo!

I apologize for this being offtopic...

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#1195
In reply to #1194

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/28/2010 7:05 PM

I've had a hard day, and that has got me laughing senseless - Excellent, Chris. ++ funny

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#1196
In reply to #1194

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/28/2010 9:39 PM

I always thought Canadians were lazy, unreliable and with no talent. I was proven wrong not only regarding the score. Congratulations to the host country.

Gotta catch up now, Ky.

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#1197
In reply to #1196

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/28/2010 10:32 PM

absolutely.. but we make great beer.. you australians (with german heritage) love us. We have some of the biggest octoberfest parties...

what else is there to do with winter 9 months of the year.. snowmobile, ski, play hockey, drink beer, and have bonfires.. woohoo!

Chris
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AussieBob
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#1198
In reply to #1197

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/28/2010 11:21 PM
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#1208
In reply to #1190

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/04/2010 3:52 AM

"I've already given you and the others a heads-up how!"

416

Words Fail
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#1210
In reply to #1208

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/05/2010 7:50 AM

Oh, so that's where Corporal Agarn heard it.
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#1213
In reply to #1210

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/05/2010 9:05 AM

Guest,

Whose Corp Agarn and where is he now?

Geoff Daly NH

PS, why don't you sign up and not be just a guest?

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#1214
In reply to #1210

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/05/2010 9:10 AM

Guest,

Forget my last remark...know where you are.

Geoff Daly NH

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#1215
In reply to #1214

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/05/2010 9:31 AM

Wasn't Cpl Agarn in the 1960's sitcom TV show "F Troop"? The little guy who always wore his Calvary hat sideways and one side folded-up?

Geoff, I'd love to have one of those Aerotecture VAWT or HAWT at my house.......Prof Weeks' brilliant design still amazes me after seeing it on TV for the first time a few years ago. I wonder what the minimum spool-up wind-speed is??? Any published costs known for these gizmos???? I'd love to get off the grid as much as possible.....we're always experiencing electrical outages here.....now w/ my PV solar system installed I can run much of the day off the grid and even backspin the meter some, but the sun doesn't shine at night!

Placed an order with TigerDirect for my headphones/mic yesterday, so will be online with Skype sometime next week after it arrives! Local stores have nadda or crappy units costing way too much!

Well, gotta go...the surgeons await my arrival yet again....damn heal!

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#1200
In reply to #1169

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/01/2010 7:17 AM

After learning to make thermite and with this training they could supplement their income by visiting the nearest bank safe!

Must be at least a $1 in the national treasury, so maybe rob the government too?
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#1201
In reply to #1200

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/01/2010 8:46 AM

CONGRATS TO CANADIANS EVERYWHERE ON THEIR OLYMPIC HOCKEY GOLD!!!!

Man, that was one great game!!! So close yet so far....I bet ya even those Canadian Bigfoots out west in the Great White North with ya Chris are celebrating!!!

Now Chris, is it too late for one to become a Canadian? Love the idea of sitting around a nighttime bonfire drinking cold crisp Canadian brews until the wee morning!!!

Maybe next time for USA Hockey team....or hopefully there will be another Olympic games held at Lake Placid in 2030? That'd be exactly 50 years since the "1980 Miracle on Ice" by USA Hockey....only 20 more years to go guys!!! Only wish I had been at the '80 game, but the US Army wouldn't give me leave back then! ....my baby sister, who was attending Paul Smiths College nearby at the time however did get tickets and saw the final 2 games, including the one where we beat the Ruskies! Lucky stiff, she had connections and got to be a part of history, while I stood Guard Duty that night in the driving rain guarding nothing but bugs and snakes and God knows what the slithers around in the back bayou's at Ft. Polk. I only saw the win on the late news recap and not the live broadcast! UGGHHHH!!!!!

Hmmm, Haitians breaking into the bank vaults with Thermite would teach them a new trade ya know, like how to be International Bank Robbers! I don't think they'd get too far trying to rob from the Gov't since the Prez probably transferred all the gold to an "offshore bank" in the Caymans!!! LMAO Wouldn't surprise me in the least if they found Ft. Knox empty if they broke into it someday, however unlikely, since the US Army's Armor School and 1st AD is guarding the place!

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#1202
In reply to #1201

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/01/2010 8:52 AM

Geoff, thanks for the links to those concrete domes!

Wow, pretty kewl and innovative, but I bet they cost a pretty buck too!

I'd say earthquake and hurricane proof for sure!!!! I'd even wager that they'd survive a direct hit by a pair of JDAMs dropped by a B-1B Lancer! Maybe even could survive a nearby detonation of a 50 MT Thermonuclear ground burst?.....nahhhhh!!!!!!! LOL

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#1203
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/01/2010 10:52 AM

Last I checked the Canadians want you to have 100 grand in the bank before they will consider you for citizenship.

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#1204
In reply to #1201

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/01/2010 11:42 AM

I'm sure they would let you become Canadian... but doesn't sound like you will be playing hockey which is mandatory eh...

I wonder why they didn't give the Georgian man who died an honorary medal?? Maybe the IOC should create a "Platinum" medal for such incidents. How many people have ever died at the olympics? What kind of message is sent when even dying isn't enough to get a medal? What do you think? (a new found element to be named Wrongturnium or Ooopsium?) would it be worth starting a thread for this?

sorry for off topic again

Chris
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#1205
In reply to #1204

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/01/2010 12:13 PM

Good idea Chris about a new metal for those KIA at the Games....

How about the yet-to-be-discovered element:

FUBARium????

We ought to contact the scientists at FermiLab or that brand new monsterous Supercollider at CERN regarding the name of any new elements they'll discover and have them get into contact the IOC re the new medal.

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#1172
In reply to #1134

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 3:28 PM

That is one of the best posts I've ever seen or CR4. !

Packrat, I almost want to have your babies. A cry of sense in a sea of **** (sorry folk, just being flippant). Everybody is trying to come up with their best ideas, and we're all frustrated, but that is right to the point. Enough talking - if CR$ admin have time to set up some sort of account (Payapal ?), maybe we could all put something in. I've got jack nothing, but what I do have spare I'd willing transfer to a CR4 fund. We can't all wade in there with spades and jack-hammers, but we can help finance those ready and equipped for ther task. There is a link in BBT (and for once, I'm not pimping the thread) given by sue that is a prime example of action in progress. We ain't short of people or ideas, just the money to make things happen.
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#1173
In reply to #1172

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 3:35 PM

And please no one ask me for the recipe to make either C4 or Symtex or some other nasty explosive stuff, okay? LOL

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#1175
In reply to #1173

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 3:53 PM

Captain,

We just need the one recipe. How to make potable water from seawater and rain, using shipping containers, broken concrete, corrugated scrap metal, old cars, dirt, sand, and waste products with manual labour.

When you are done that... let me know.. I have other tasks for you...

and please I don't rate as "sir." I usually respond to 'hey you' or worse.

Chris
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#1176
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 4:28 PM

I rate as a "Sir."

You become a "Sir" when young girls won't give it to you.

My story is that I propositioned a woman, "girl", and she said, "Oh no, you're too old!" After that, well, I never objected or corrected those that called me Sir.

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#1177
In reply to #1176

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 4:30 PM

Trans-

Well, I guess that means I don't rate a sir yet...
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#1180
In reply to #1177

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 5:16 PM

Good for you.

Best I could do was get a 10 year younger wife.

On that score, odd that she puts up with me at all, considering.

Otherwise, it is the weekend, and all is conjecture far as governmental support for your work.

I'm still trying to confirm in my mind if Beau actually sent the White Paper Draft to all of the US Congress.

Sure seems that is what he said he did on the phone.

An appreciable amount of US aid is going towards Haiti, so I guess they care a bit.

Where would you buy land in Haiti?

Food and Women make a town.

Can you see passports for Haitians and Louisiana in a really rough and ready Sister City, Sister State arrangement?

I consider you, CW, an elder statesman, myself.

Overall whatever good comes from this CR4 thread will owe its success to you.

Hey for that, I'll give you "Sir".

Course girls, well, I myself tell my wife not to worry about "girls", but worry about women my own age.

For fun, and truth, well a design exterior and interior that made women happy, made from shipping containers, would be really fun to see.

In a showroom of Deco 30s glass I hear Pink Cadillac by Aretha Franklin on the Muzak, and see RVs of incredible shipping compatibility with containers and blow up concrete tents.

Lined out I see Industry, using the obsolete to finance the industry of the new, where all visitations normally produced death by disease.

The Plague Prevention Plane is on the horizon.

Two miles up in the weather it storms forward meant to crash.

Pilots do not want to die.

They shut up and fly.

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#1181
In reply to #1180

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 5:50 PM

Were I looking to buy property in Haiti, I would be looking for someplace like Dessalines, or maybe Cap Haitian...
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#1182
In reply to #1180

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 5:51 PM

So. Now it's chile.

Wanna do it all again?

Another 500,000 need housing, and mess everywhere.

There's more to come.

Stu.

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#1183
In reply to #1182

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 5:54 PM

No hurricanes in Chile, but about the time the hurricanes start hitting Haiti, Chile will be dealing with frigidly cold weather...Looks like the Chile event was quite a bit more powerful than the Haiti event, but abject poverty is not a major issue in Chile...
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#1179
In reply to #1175

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 5:07 PM

ya, I went to get coffee last night, and there was a young woman waitthing in line ahead of me, and wearing a skirt above the knee. I asked her if she was crazy for being dressed like that when its -10C... after 2 minutes, she asked me if I wanted to partying with her and her girfriends... she was early thirties and looked early twenties...

I had to turn her down, and go home to my loving partner.. but it was a great fantasy for a minute. makes me feel less old. A smile from a woman goes a long way in my world.

thanks for the info Sir!

on another note.. sir is a derivative of Sire, which is a old feudal term given to landed gentry who may well have actually been a sire, given that some were practicing "First Right" or "Droit de Seigneur". meaning they could have sex before you,with your new bride, and thus your children might be their child and not yours... so be careful who you call sire. The same feudal lord was also the man who you fought for, and defended your land/country, and thus the calling of sire was transferred to the military regimen.

Chris.
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#1174
In reply to #1172

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 3:42 PM

My webmaster assures me that the Transcendia.org donate button works.

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#1178
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 4:54 PM
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#1184
In reply to #1178

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 8:56 PM

There's no need to be bashful because I want to slip you some. I really meant it, big time.

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#1185
In reply to #1184

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 9:55 PM

Well kwissy,

I guess I'll just have to give you that whip you were begging for in the off topic post thread.

Rat boy

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#1188
In reply to #1185

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/28/2010 7:16 AM

Lashings of it.....

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#1143

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 10:44 AM

Chris,

the rendering of the container w/ the tarp and stovepipe looks great!

Uhhhmmm, one word of caution though: hold back the tarp away from the hot stovepipe or otherwise you're going to either have a fire or a hot gooey melted plastic mess to content with (assuming the tarp is made of some sort of woven/extruded plastic???).

May I suggest that you either hold the interior of the tarp back with some sort of steel hoop onto which you can attach your tarp hanger wires, OR find some sort of fireproof material of sufficient thickness to place around the hoop that'd be a heat/radiant barrier between the plastic tarp and the stovepipe.

Material guys in here can help suggest the fireproof stuff.........wiat, doesn't 3M make a FIRE BREAK material for placing around pipe and conduits when they pass through firewalls?????? Guys????

CaptMoosie, who is still digging out, but taking a 15 minute "breather" from snow-blowing and shoveling 'cause the PAID snowplow guy didn't show-up last night.....probably his p/u truck disintegrated or the plow fell off??? *LOL OHHH MYYYY*

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#1149
In reply to #1143

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 1:48 PM

Hi Captain,

my stovepipe isn't intended for cooking, at least in my mind.. (never know what people will do)

It is simply to enable convection (chimney effect cooling) The higher the chimney, the greater the cooling draft.

otherwise, good point.

Chris
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#1144

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 10:54 AM

PackieRat,

Agreed with supplying hand tools to the masses and showing them how to use them if they already don't know how to use them.

However, have the Haitians "fabricate tools"???? Huhhhhh? How are ya gonna do that????

Unless Haiti has some working steel foundries and steel fabricating shops equipped with cold-forging hydraulically operated presses capable of multi-tens of Tons "squeezes" or drop forging, you may have to forget this part........just give them the tools straight out of a box instead for the time being/////I'm sure that zillions of hand tools will be donated if asked for!

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#1145
In reply to #1144

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 11:48 AM

Capn,

Your askin' the wrong questions.

They don't need all that developed world manufacturing infra structure, just a few containers with hand tools, sledges, cold chisels, hand mauls, punches, shovels , Johnson bars, oxy/propane cutting torches, etc.. There is enough raw material there now, leaf springs, re-bar, steel pipe, to fabricate any additional tools (cantainer opener®) necessary.

As Trans would say," we're not here to figure out how not to do it".

And as far as the Haitians knowing how to do something, one example I remember from personal experience interacting with them, was the time a group of them here decided to build a boat. They didn't put an RFI to the Corpse of Engineers, they just went down to the lumberyard, bought the lumber and proceeded to build a large and quite seaworthy boat.

Give them the tools, a little instruction, then get out of their way.

Packrat

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#1162
In reply to #1144

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/27/2010 5:51 AM

Most hand tools can be fabricated using old car leaf springs, welder and grinder.
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#1199

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/01/2010 12:47 AM

In Chile` worries about keeping the heat in instead get's right chilly there soon.

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#1206

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/03/2010 5:00 PM

I don't think we saw this company.. but maybe I missed it. They have everything pretty much for container buildings, designed and ready to go. All we need is some money...

http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/cilccn/product-list/catalog-1.html

Quote: (engrish)

"China International Container Leasing Co., Ltd. ( CILC) design, produce, deliver, install, and maintain office container, labor camp container, accommodation container, cabin container, prefabricated building container, flat pack container, modular container, container house, mobile house, portable house. We have 7 experienced engineers who can give professional suggestion to the clients; Also they can design for the clients as per their requirements. We have 600 workers making production in the factory and we can send a skilled team of 150 workers to supply installation service all over the world. We have 15 staffs to supply excellent service for our customers. Our capacity is 150 units per day; 4000 units per month. We have 40, 000 square meters workshop with nice and efficient production line. Our factory approved by ISO9001, and we have Fire certification issued by UK and UAE.

We can also supply reefer, fuel tank container, Storage Container, Shelter Container and various special containers."
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#1207
In reply to #1206

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/03/2010 5:15 PM

Money is interesting.

Design some.

Lets print some.

Wonder how many steel dollar coins you could smash press from a shipping container, buttressed with insurance investment back up bank value?

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#1212
In reply to #1206

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/05/2010 9:00 AM

Chris,

I think this is the same plant Maersk/OCL and Verbus share in China...factory photo looks similar go back too one of the earlier postings.... www.verbus.co.uk they make 3.66 mt wide units for hotel type construction.... not cheap.

Better to just lay two open top units side by side to make double wide...could be part of your Hospital concept you presented.

Interesting but do we want China involved when the idea is to use existing resources on the ground and develop local jobs/expertise and get rid of all the excess containers here in Norh America...all from China, no disrespect to there manufacturing they have established?

Geoff Daly NH

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#1216
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Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/05/2010 9:32 AM

As the Draft White Paper is supposedly circulating some, I had turned to thoughts of how some of what we know could be turned into a Business Plan, to address the long term.

In other words what company of the mature shipping container conversion industry would find it profitable to employ Haitian labor?

Due to Language and Culture I have proposed a Sister State relationship between Louisiana and Haiti specifically first targeting education, one of the main failings of Haitian reality.

Habitaflex in Quebec is French speaking.

And their designs that fold up are attractive down the road.

Then you gottah ask if there is a Haitian bank that would aid its own?

Worldwide there is a need for standard housing designs, and will be, as it is explained that slums partly come from a lack of this building option.

So really regardless of the situation in Haiti, building with things like shipping containers will be a growth industry.

I have been told that Chinese are not much interested even in exploiting in possible gas reserves in the area, due to their assessment of Haitian political and cultural realities.

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Geoff Daly
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#1217
In reply to #1216

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/05/2010 12:16 PM

Trans,

CW has done a great job cutting down on a lot of the original postings and just needs a few of the Photos/Drawings added then it could represent a good submission as an open document from the CR4 GlobalSpec "Shipping container community postings".

Would add more to CR4 image and by linking to other sites

CW what about sharing it via SEED, Architecture for Humanity, the Zakat foundation and GlobalCon (Anthony I know would put it up and so would Richard Martin).

What is everyones thoughts?...bios can be attached of all who have contributed at the end showing the CR4 contributors site names and CW has mentioned in his writtings the connection with GloalSpec....may just want Chris Leonard's review 1st.

Geoff Daly NH

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#1223
In reply to #1217

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/05/2010 7:00 PM

Definitely clear whatever with CR4, CL. I don't mention CR4 publicly at all anymore since the events surrounding my proposed Press Release.

Something along the lines of Met on CR4, may work fine with administration. Then as standard a Business Plan as possible.

Good thing is that we not only know shipping containers, we know the competition, which is important to have a grasp of.

Finished out shipping containers are right pricy, whereas along I myself have been thinking of quick and dirty and fast and simple and now things in the 5 grand range per module in consideration of basic costs, and set up, transport and anchoring.

I keep thinking somebody has to be making money in Haiti. Who are they? Why do they like to work there? Some Cruise ships go there. I haven't quite grasped what is the strongest area of the Haitian economy. Is it coffee? Is it pot? Is it tourism?

As said maybe we ought to just turn around and tell USAID, or whomever what we could do for what price, and leave it at that.

Call it Steel Tents. Begging others to do the right thing, has so far not been working out.

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chrisg288
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#1218
In reply to #1212

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/05/2010 1:28 PM

Hi Geoff,

We are presented with a roadblock of political origin that tends to prevent effective action. What to do?

Is it necessary to understand the nature of the roadblock in order to solve the problem? Only if it is a 'dynamic' roadblock, and can shift itself to prevent alternative routes to success. Then it would be pertinent to understand its programming. Our roadblock is organized by Money, and seeking Power.

Or, we choose a route that the blocking mechanism could not possibly anticipate or prevent. We are organized by compassion and seeking relief for the victims. Our plan is overflowing with solutions, but (traditionally) has few tools in the arsenal to ovecome the Roadblock. We require much more consensus building and volunteer participation, in order to counter the power and money combination.

If Water is being shipped in via plastic bottles, and bottles have labels, and labels communicate to the person drinking the water, and if the labels are cheap, then I propose that we condense and concentrate our plan, scrape together a few donations, and contribute a few skids of labelled water bottles. (Labelled water bottles are an advertising method) (I'm sure my french is really bad here)

I also think that if Maersk and other companies are willing to contribute containers for disaster relief, that a Not-For-Profit Foundation needs to be set up, that such companies can contribute their relief containers to. It needs to be an organization that can publish the information about such contributions, and also such contribitions could become a tax write-off for the contributors. Again we need more consensus building, handshaking, low level lobbying.

Perhaps GlobalCon Holdings is this organization. I really don't know much about them. My point is that, on one side, we need to have 'raw materials' in hand, so a source of containers. On the other hand, we need that means of communicating directly with our customers (Haitian and other Relief Victims) Politically, we only need permission or the right to act.

I think that the participants here on CR4 are willing to provide engineering support to such an organization, and occasionally a bit of lobbying. Is it possible to create a web-connected foundation to channel our contributions to? Does anyone know how to do this?

It is well known that Television is the most impactful medium, and could certainly be used to get our message across. With enough consensus, perhaps we could be spotlighted on Larry King Live, et al. (and avoid huge marketing costs) Perhaps someone like Sean Penn, or any other caring celebrity could be contacted more easily?? (six degrees of separation)

I don't know. Its really not my forté. I have no practical experience.

Chris
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cwarner7_11
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#1219
In reply to #1218

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/05/2010 2:27 PM

OK, Chris, here's the plan. We begin with a company like your Chinese container converter, and enlist the support of the Chinese government. We set up quick-deployment storage yards in key parts of the world, stocked with prefabed container housing, hospitals, water treatment plants, etc. (possibly already loaded on a container ship in standby). When disaster strikes, we load up our "first response" vehicle with a large contingent of heavily armed Chinese soldiers, who establish a beach head and permit unloading and setting up the emergency facilities. The purpose of the large heavily armed contingent is to insure that no politician can tell us we are not "authorized" to provide relief. As soon as all is set up and ready, we pull out our military force, and let the rest of the NGO's come in and fight over their turf as they see fit. Meanwhile, the infrastructure to actually relieve the suffering of the local population is functioning without the need for the involvement of the Red Cross, USAID, or any other of these orgainizations more interested in promoting their own image than actually providing relief...
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chrisg288
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#1220
In reply to #1219

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/05/2010 2:51 PM

I was restraining my conspiracy theory impulses, believe it or not...

but I think you might be on to something... "The Beachhead Foundation" and in spirit, actually does what you are suggesting, without the armed soldiers.

Chris
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cwarner7_11
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#1221
In reply to #1220

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/05/2010 5:25 PM

The soldiers are there just to make sure no one challenges your right to participate in a rescue mission...I prefer Chinese to American because I don't trust the Americans to leave when the job is done...
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Geoff Daly
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#1224
In reply to #1219

Re: Shipping Container Housing - China International Container Leasing

03/05/2010 7:00 PM

Charlie ,

What about Blackwater as well to aasist the Chinese?

Geoff Daly NH

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