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spacecannon
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Shipping Container Housing

01/16/2010 12:05 PM

I have a civil engineer friend whoose dream it is to design and build shipping container housing for general use and for emergency use, like an instant city for Haiti. Im trying to motivate him to live his dream, so what does everyone think about container housing?

spacecannon

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Geoff Daly
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#1211
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/05/2010 8:48 AM

Charlie,

take a look at Prof Bill Weeks of Chicago and his self regulating Vert/Hori double bernoullie Helix...amazing... www.aerotecture.com

Bill is in touch with GlobalCon and U of Clemson. Idea would be to place a container on its end....also can contain the convetors etc and act as a security post for a community as several people have proposed with a perimeter.

Can then mount vertically....has been run in real life with 120+ winds and no damage....would be around 48 to 50 ft above ground and in good air and makes vitually no noise due to the design (have several mounted on a hospital roof near down town Chicago and several office buildings as part of the architectural effect).

Spoke with Bill and they are working on a 30 Kw unit.

Geoff Daly NH

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CaptMoosie
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#1127
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/25/2010 11:24 AM

Hey Geoff!

You continue to amaze me friend! Knowledgeable in tidal hydro generators and Wind turbines no less!

The following is Off-Topic:

I think the hydro generators installed in the East River of NYC are rated somewhere around a few MW apiece and only used to juice-up a few buildings nearby, I don't know if they're tied to the grid yet. Actually, I think the specific spot they're installed at is called Hell's Gate due to the terrific tidal flows found there. I saw the segment on their installation on the Green or DIY Channel. Initially, the tidal flows were so strong they bent the turbine blades on one or two of the units and had to replace them!

Gotta love the Aerotecture wind turbines, especially the horizontally oriented ones! also saw these on a Green Channel or DIY Channel segment some time ago. Perfect for roof top installations in an Urban environment + they're bird proof too!

I'd love to be able to build one, but the fabrication bending of the tubes will prevent me from doing so in my garage. So, instead I'll be staying will building a Vertical Axis Wind Turbine sometime this summer or fall after playing around with scaled down models and testing them. My aim is to install at least a 2 MW VAWT on a elevated pole alongside the new tool shed, but first I have to finish fabricating the 2-story steel framed shed and my DIY Solar Thermal system that'll be used to heat the house and provide DWH......this is a active solar system that I've designed and slowly been putting together. ....most of the system pieces are salvaged or recycled materials. For instance, the 52 encapsulated solar tubes I was able to buy from a guy in VA on Ebay. They're state of the art and are now NASA surplus (were used in testing programs) and originally cost the US Government $350 apiece. I bought them for $22.50 apiece. Much of the valving, fittings and controls are all salvaged. Some items are obviously new like the multi-plate heat exchangers and some anti-freeze blow-off valves and air release valves, and flow meters. I just have to get around to buying the copper tubing, the insulated poly (special temp) water storage tanks and the TACO recirc pumps.

BTW, according to the previously posted USACE water report, Haiti does have several existing Hydro generation systems, but with limited electrical output due to size, age and lousy maintenance. Apparently, even before the earthquake they had problems with some of the turbine but also sedimentation problems in the reservoirs due to increased erosion (lack of forests and vegetative soil coverage yet again!) of the bare soils.

Gotta go out and do some snowblowing.....we have a Snowicane here the past day and a half....plus the current second storm that'll last into Saturday AM....beginning to really hate the White Chit!!! *LOL*

Chris, some good ideas about electrical generation using tidal generators and what not! Too bad the tidal swings a so crappy in the Carribean....

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Geoff Daly
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#1132
In reply to #1127

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/25/2010 10:19 PM

CaptMossie,

thanks for the NY river stuff, wasn't sure on MW output but they are palnning a total of 24 over a three year period.

On your thermal solar heater..forget antifreeze, use straight winter wind shield washer fluid and add another 5% IPA into it...antifreeze attacks the copper after a while....also look at maybe using the underfloor flex PET tubing is easier to handle and glue together can get upto 1" dia

You have snow, Haiti has rain and NH/VT is under a sevre river flood watch...has rained for past three days and tonight winds 40+mph and cold..river up 5 feet just today.

So Haiti and the rest of us had better think carefully about global warming or else Red Hook maybe sea front property along with many others...if all ice and snow melted seas would rise nearly 185 feet min world wide...we sit at 92 feet at our house...need to go 15 miles inland to be safe.

Geoff Daly NH

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CaptMoosie
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#1136
In reply to #1132

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 12:15 AM

Geoff,

Good to see that NYC is in the forefront of tidal power generation. No kidding, 24 units to be installed? Very Kewl!!!!

Say, isn't there a good sized unit installed in the Irish Sea off the coast of Wales? or was there one up in the North Sea off Scotland???? I somehow remember seeing a program on the TV about them.....

Okay, ya got me, but what exactly is IPA?? Iso bllahhblahhh alcohol, right???

What's the Boiling Point of the winter windshield washer fluid BTW? It contains Methyl chloride or something like that, correct? I'm not a Chemist as you can see!!! LOL

I had planned on using RV antifreeze in the closed loop system. Will that attack the copper piping as well? I don't know if i want to use PEX because the evacuated tube heat pipes will be kicking out just about 200-210 degrees F at the heat transfer headers. I think that even the best Working Temp for PEX Red (?) is 160 or 180 Deg. F, so no can do regarding PEX because it'll melt on me eventually......I have to go with Type L Copper tubing wrapped in a Rock Wool Blanket that is cocooned in Radiant Foil, then stuffed inside a 2 inch Sch 40 PVC underground conduit (between Tool shed and house) to keep down the heat losses...

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#1138
In reply to #1132

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/26/2010 1:14 AM

So Haiti and the rest of us had better think carefully about global warming or else Red Hook maybe sea front property along with many others...if all ice and snow melted seas would rise nearly 185 feet min world wide...we sit at 92 feet at our house...need to go 15 miles inland to be safe.

Thing is though it is the sea ice which is receding and since it's in the water the seas will not rise from sea ice melt water. It is the calving from glacial ice which adds to the sea water volume. And according to reports calving is within norms of the cycle.

Climate change is occurring and we should all be happy because an unchanging climate does not benefit us either.

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Kyzine
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#1013
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 10:32 PM

If you want Geoff I can give you several designs for floating wharfs/linked pontoons

Can't say I've seen any using containers.

I'd guess because the roof is not strong enough to drive anything much on.

Double width would improve the turning turtle tendency.

As would your idea of using drums - but for buoyancy - as they can be fixed.

I.e. the bags would work if they were captured /sandwiched by a deck, to stop air simply migrating freely.

Not that you could turn anything much around in 16 feet. 3-4 ton fork lift - could get interesting near the edge.

Many people couldn't back any distance central to a 16' width in even a gentle swell.

There is a plastic 'chain linked drum' one I used in a shallow beach/large tidal variation situation Ireland, that would carry light trucks (1 ton tray back) but it was like driving on a rolling Blancmange and you had to stay very dead center even in mill pond conditions.

Tide might be an advantage - if at low the containers sat on the bottom - but I think it's classed a deep water port, so likely over a fathom at lowest tide.

I think if we are going to "fix the port problem" we need to think 1000's of drums catamaran style and a flexible structural deck, like planks, and say tyre casings as restrainer hinges, and the man powered trolley and/or "rail loop" system.

Maybe start a new thread for that?

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sceptic
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#1030
In reply to #1013

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/18/2010 7:44 AM

Wouldn't it be simpler to bulldoze the surplus rubble into the water and make a solid wharf?

They have to put the surplus rubble somewhere and an extra wharf could be useful in the future, if only to provide the locals with a fishing platform.
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chrisg288
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#1033
In reply to #1030

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/18/2010 12:22 PM

thats what they did with some of the remains of the World Trade Ctr in NYC, and extended the ferry area and park. (based on what I was told) ga.

Chris
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#1038
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/18/2010 4:34 PM

GA.

Stu

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#988
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 11:36 AM

Based on experience building steel floating docks, they should be stable so long as they sit 50% down in the water. Wider is better, however- a square cross section is most likely the most stable...
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Stueywright
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 2:09 AM

Good,

just need to add Kyz and me and our welder.

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Geoff Daly
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#987
In reply to #981

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 11:33 AM

Stu,

thought you were flooded in and did not like too travel in planes!!!!!

Geoff

PS, look good in shorts

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#1989
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/01/2012 2:25 AM

I'm in favour of using Shipping containers for use in poor areas, eg:

- housing small, mobile water treatment plants,

- temp-Libraries in poor areas,

- community offices or

- workshops available to poor people.

The container nevertheless is ideal size and availability to allow one to use it as a test container for design of prototype housing structures.

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#1004
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 4:58 PM

I sent an email requesting price and deliver info from this company. I'm sure such technology as the wagons would come in way under 88k$, and still get the job done.

Chris
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 1:50 PM

I'm not really a redneck, but well, I know how to act like one.

I had you figured as a "red green" aficionado

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chrisg288
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 5:07 PM

Perhaps one of these Container hospitals on the front lawn of the Palace would be a more appropriate symbol.
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chrisg288
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#1010
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 8:30 PM

a layout for a Phoenix painted in Haiti Colors for presidential lawn... symbolic of the Haiti nation rising again. (also symbolic of use of containers for recovery)
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#1088
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/23/2010 2:42 AM

Further to interest that has been generated in the Phoenix, here is some more... first, we are looking for some other coloring or layout considerations, so here is a 'blank' for you or your kids to color in.

Next I tried to get this going in 3d, and see how that would go... (I had to change the design to straighten out the connections a bit.) and put in a grid to assemble on.

I think it would have to use bwire's solatube type skylights and or RV type skylight/vents.. hunnerds of em. and I've not put in any kind of plumbing or electrical.. I'll leave that for the real engineers.. but would appreciate hearing thoughts on this being a real structure.. as it may well be if they like it.

please forgive some of the text gets backwards on the containers due to mirroring effects. all the containers say "Homes for Haiti".

I did have a thought that some decorative corrugated metal work could be added around the perimeter where shapes that are cut from the interior walls could be cut to arc shapes and help with the 'feathers' look.. or to give more character to the head. etc.. but I'll leave that for the real artists.

but I wonder what it might look like from the air, or from space.. or google?

thanks, Chris
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#1123
In reply to #1005

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/24/2010 5:23 PM

Something like this is more likely to work on the 16 points.

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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/16/2010 11:00 PM

By the by, Trans - I've done the cheap junk based wheel and tow system - mentioned / described, way back.

Why not posted?

Because from my research, it appears they are too poor to own junk.

Therefore the design is being re-done as a US/Florida made 'kit' for import.

This introduces "commercial government contracts", meaning "the design" is "restricted to the approved bidder" (and will suffer delays).

A 'complication' is a minimal rearrangement would make it a "1st world street legal" system, so a new product for empty container management and logistics - bringing out the usual greed fest.

This 'circus' is the reason I later posted on "improvised loading" and transport as it appears there are tray-back tucks.

These trucks are just not on the list of 'usable' by Aid folk, due to cargo theft, possibly reliability issues (but more likely passenger comfort and driver personal hygiene if the 7 liters per person per day is a correct figure)

Hence "Clinton's appeal for 100 trucks" is not likely to be for the sort we want.

-------------------------

"Skids" are also "simple". Imagine 4 (smaller) snow boards with square spigots central, add chain. It's tractor or 4WD 1st gear work. Add more chain, tow several.

Now find the steel plate, RHS and welding / bending resources?

Coincidently - if you had the plate and chain in volume - make them 'single use' and each arrives with a tie-down kit - just add burial.

-----------------------

But - as said - there are enough options to regard the moving topic as "solved" - and the tie-down topic also - given some 'get it done skill sets on site' - AND a responsive management attitude in program implementation.

This General seems to be the right guy - a chat with him would be a big two way plus. In my view anyway.

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#971
In reply to #969

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/16/2010 11:41 PM

Yair, I suspected a bit about too poor to own junk.

Course I've never been on a port where there wasn't some around.

Anyway, while the skids and Stueywrights input made it all seem possible, nothing has happened yet, and trucks and tractors have the power to drag things without wheels, but putting wheels on the containers means most anything can move them.

Far as the other issues, well, they are of legal an political natures possible to solve really only if the Haitians, and their leaders, and their rich, actually cared about each other enough to fight together for their nation, and what little place on earth they call their own.

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#977
In reply to #971

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 1:45 AM

Trans - Geoff - Chris

For what it's worth Stuey and I posted the virtually identical input simultaneously on dragging containers, because this was a big impediment to the discussion at the time.

The skid idea is Stueys and I agree - its the dead simple tech especially for short to mid distance on poor roads especially if grass or damp. It was throughly discussed. Inc, wood skids. WE know we can do this - it comes down to scavenging or importing and or field smarts.

Same for wheel systems. But;

"putting wheels on the containers means most anything can move them." is not necessarily true of practical. Your tow vehicle has to have brakes enough and mass enough to stop an/or not be steered buy the load. It has to have rear suspension enough to take the tow-ball down force to prevent load steering.

End picture is you need ~2 ton 'tug' or better, either way - skids or wheels.

Hummers would be fine - the water tankers would be fine.

But 20 odd tray-backs would do the whole deal, and don't require the expenditure on "wheels draw-bars, skids" plus making, finding, importing supporting material or equipment/skills.

View this as a logistics exercise - select and sort containers to categories - select and sort sites - prepare containers - prepare sites - move containers - install containers.

It is done sequentially - production line.

You are not preparing all, then moving all, then installing all.

For instance - if the prep department could output 20 a day - you can only deliver 20 per day. If you can't prepare 20 sites or install 20 per day - then....

And I'd say site prep is the limiter in this.

So;

The simpler the 'village module' is ......

The simpler the site is.....

The simpler prep can be broken to equipment and manual inputs....

The smoother the process.

If you want 100 modified containers a day delivered, given the distances involved, 20 tray-backs are not enough - but 35 would do.

35 in all of Haiti? Wave $5 and a can of fuel.

But yes if you want to carry on raking over the "what if's" - on no actual problem - do by all means.

Or I am saying the "project stage cut-off point" is reached - except for a sales concept (picture) to sell it - to get the 'power' - to do it.

It would help if some one had some idea of where to do it and the terrain involved.

E.g. "General - we would like to this - there - and need this".

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#973
In reply to #969

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/16/2010 11:47 PM

I won't consider anything as solved until I see it being done. I continue to champion methods that can be easily transfered to the Haitians ownership. Anything with wheels requires bearings and advanced technology. Containers exist on the island, and as Sean Penn stated, what Haitians need is "Eminent Domain" law, which will give the Haitian government the power to obtain necessary materials and land that are already in Haiti. This is crucial to avert the impending catastrophic die-off.

Chris
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#990
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 11:41 AM

I don't know that two wheels and an axle are really that high tech.

As said seems like you could either pull a straight axle out of some junked truck or car, and just jack up the back of the container, and stick the axle into slots cut into a welded on plate, or cleat as I called it.

If you don't have a straight through axle, and they aren't as common as they used to be, take a drive train and turn that into an axle.

Those are my quick and dirty fast and simple thoughts so far for getting some wheels on the containers.

Might be able to dispense with the axle, and use 4" channel steel to stay low with two up turned sides where to somehow attach the wheels, but I'd have to have my hands on some stuff and work with a welder and a cutting torch to see really what I could come up with.

Might need to have some made in a place like Miami, and thrown on a plane.

While there are some finely made moving machines made, and hopefully they will be employed, say we call them plan A, then some Wheel rig plan B, and the Skids, or just dragging as is plan C?

As far as Sean Penn's suggestion that Eminent Domain Law needs to be exercised by the Haitians, looks like overall they need understood and enforceable property laws across the board.

(It is notable that water delivery companies essentially get the water they sell, for free for what is essentially a public resource.)

In my Red Cross letter I addressed property rights and deeds to land saying that attorneys needed to draw up workable deeds to be awarded as containers might be delivered to people who were rebuilding partly to maintain their claims, which were not clear.

I also suggested that rural outlying land that might be good to go for, and likely owned by somebody called for legally arranged land swaps.

There I suggested that if land was to be taken from others for settlements as it might not make sense to work now on clearing urban land, those whose land was in shape to accept settlements, fairly might be given urban land that would have value, after clearing.

So far I'm not real impressed with the Haitian government and disturbed by reports of money already gone missing according to New York Times reports, along with the cancellation of the elections obviously condoned by the UN and the US.

In the absence of effective government as we see and have seen in Haiti, it would appear that unless those in charge such as the UN are able to apply some sort of property law as the situation roils, a mess will be perpetuated, regardless of anyones good intentions.

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#992
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 11:45 AM

Considering the limited access to the funds by most Haitians, it is hard to believe that any "missing funds" have found their way in to local hands...
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#994
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 12:11 PM

Trans,

Some of the items you mention are in Haiti but not necessarily in the main city. The Haitian do have a good fabrication industry and qualified welders etc...some basic yes but can be taught the latest stuff..I found the ones who worked for me very willing to try any thing and became quick learners when given a chance...speak to Richard Martin when he built the school in Gonaives 5 yrs ago...just showed and they took over and did.

So mother of invention does exist done there if given the chance and a bit more guidance and encouragement.

Strong leadreship, yes; is definitely needed for anything to succeed from now on, but must involve all who are affected not just the higher ups or the current 16 agencies President Clinton was endeavoring to stop jousting for positon of "whose on first" etc.

The Haitian Government can actually commandeer whatever is needed in any national emergency...is also done by the military as needed in any theater they are in ...settle who pays/owns what later when lives are at stack...again needs strong leadership and no cowering to lawyers and threats from special interests wanting a BIG piece of the action for favors etc ...you know who I am referring too BIG construction etc

Geoff Daly NH

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#996
In reply to #990

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 12:52 PM

GA Russell.
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#1011
In reply to #990

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 9:31 PM

Call me lazy Trans but doing the axle thing is more work and resources than waving $5 to get between 3 and 9 containers picked up and delivered per day.

It would probably cost more in gas to cut up the wrecks, days (at $5 p man) to make one, and your still up for a tow ($5). It will be slower to load, slower to travel, and slower to unload. (oh and if car wheels - you need at least 4 for 3 tons, & 6 if your doing a turntable and axle draw bar. (Dog trailer design)

But as said - it can be done - if push comes to shove - but I think the resources/gas are better spent on making the habitats.

Also as said - these designs are done - loads and widths considered - minimum complexity - simplest attach and detach - so the work and BOM are knowns. It is nothing like $80,000 each and 10 weeks - as thought to be the case prior to Stuey's and my input, but still an expenditure I seriously doubt is required, given information updates (thanks to bwire) since.

The conclusions above all point to that path/effort = reduction in habitats.

(Estimate; $1920 per simple embodiment, ex Miami - a guess ~220 lbs each)

Everything else you mention is a problem - space, land, sites, existing pop density, verses our end design capacity - hence my comments on the land area for the wheel design, and a move toward a village module that builds enclaves into 'urban blocks'.

I've given Chris some input and described the approach as Rome courtyard. A city built largely on the modular environment concept. I believe this can cover both rural and urban situations in fairly level areas.

Steeper areas - as seen in some urban footage - need more thinking about multi- height and the range of stresses.

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#1014
In reply to #1011

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 11:08 PM

I'm not gonnah call you lazy.

Just trying to figure out some way to get some of these thing rolling.

Plan A: Made to do it to EU road standards, military and commercial.

Plan B: ? Drag 'em, or what, make something?

My brother says if you want efficiency, hire a lazy guy...

Just spent another hour myself on CIA Factbook.

It is pretty sparse really, and not much better than other sites I've looked at, like the UN one. Get more off Wikepedia really, though not always certain info about the DR, and Haiti there is all that great.

Trying to find some bright spots, and can't find much.

They make some clothes that seem to provide a little money.

They don't really have even an army of their own.

Got a little Coast Guard.

Hardly have a phone system.

Well the place really doesn't have much at all going for it. No oil, no gas.

Major storms from June to October.

Big Kidnapping industry.

Columbians like to run through smuggling drugs.

If pot was legal, well they'd have a cash crop, but that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

They sell a little coffee.

Really don't have much gold.

They have lots of unskilled labor, like 3 and a half million.

Half the population can't read, so that implies a great deal of unskilled, labor.

I think they need to print some money.

The money they print needs to go into reestablishing their own army, or they need to petition for statehood and give up being a sovereign nation.

Maybe the Vatican wants more space?

Somebody definitely needs to spend more money there on the educational system.

That's pretty much the key pivot for any long term plans that will do anything at all to help the Haitians really.

Road building has been done in some nations like Ireland to internally keep people working, and the Haitians do need some roads.

There may be some sympatico relationships between the Creole, and French speakers of Louisiana that might be a key to raising up both Haiti and Louisiana.

Least they share some language, religion, and culture, most of us don't in other states of the US, or other nations for that matter.

Certainly the literacy rate in Louisiana is higher and there are likely to be teachers in or from the state able to speak the languages common in Haiti, and Louisiana.

At least Haiti isn't really at war all that bad right now amongst themselves or with anybody else.

That's a plus considering the nations at the bottom of the lists in the world.

Hey, they're not at the absolute bottom!

Maybe we ought to propose a Sister State Relationship between Louisiana and Haiti that facilitated movement of peoples between the two States as both attempted to recover from similar events?

I think that there is hardly anything else really to do that makes real sense considering all I know about the whole situation.

A concentration on education for Haitians cannot even be really moved forward by any from any other State considering the language barrier.

Would also give the Haitians a way out, since the only other nation France, is one that they fought to free themselves from, and national pride is a strong thing even among the poorest of the poor.

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#1015
In reply to #1014

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 11:38 PM

What about the Canadians?

When I lived in Louisiana there were significant numbers of Haitians.

The good ol Boys would be happy to abuse them

So the Monroe doctrine was correct then?

It's real hard to have any context on this concept, having been ostensibly part of the power elite [white male] my whole life.
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#1017
In reply to #1015

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/18/2010 12:18 AM

It's cold in Canada.

Last time I lived in Toronto the company I was working for just rolled over and did whatever people from LA told them to.

I've been screwed over by Americans, and Canadians, that's why I'm the Transcendian.

Far as Monroe Doctrine, I forget...

Language is important, and education is real important.

Shared experience and culture is important.

Huey Long at least built roads, and founded schools in Louisiana.

Fought Standard Oil.

My crook is better than your crook!

It's a hardball world.

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#1025
In reply to #1017

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/18/2010 3:47 AM

Manifest Destiny

The US should cover coast to coast, & by extension pole to pole. [waiting to hear the Canadians howl]

The political will has never been there to raise US imperialism to that overt a level.

I used to kid my co-worker's [who were from all over Latin America, not just Mexico], that their homelands would have been better off as official states, not just de facto ones.

Suprisingly most were in agreement, of course being ex-patriots, they may have been biased
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#1031
In reply to #1025

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/18/2010 10:43 AM

There has been for years a small but active group here in Panama that campaigns for applying to the US for Statehood. They were more active and visible years ago, right after the Torrijos-Carter treaty, expressing serious concern that Panama would find it difficult to survive once the US presence disappeared..,
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#1034
In reply to #1025

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/18/2010 12:31 PM

There is worse countries to belong to than the USA, but for Canada, we'd have to give up a lot in terms of a good system to take that step down, <Begin Rant> and frankly I think we should all resist the urge towards massive centralization, as it simply puts more power in the hands of politicians, who never really have our interests at heart.

If they did.... forgeddit.. the list is tooo long. I'm having a good day, and don't want to go there this early in the morning. <End Rant>

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#1018
In reply to #1014

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/18/2010 12:46 AM

Trans-

An idea for you. Let's move UN headquarters out of New York and to Haiti. Hugo Chavez would no longer be able to accuse the UN of being a front for US foreign policy (which, everyone knows, is focused solely on the need to replace the regime in Venezuela). The UN would have to invest heavily in developing the appropriate infrastructure, and such a facility would provide quite a number of unskilled jobs, plus, if done right, could result in a major educational institution as well (i.e., we move Al Gore's study group to Haiti...)

It is late, and perhaps I am letting too much of my own personal politics inform this post...Better mark it off topic.
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#1020
In reply to #1018

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/18/2010 12:53 AM

It would probably be cheaper than the ongoing asbestos rehab of the building in new york.

The location of the UN really doesn't matter, since the US pays a majority of the bills, last I heard
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#1021
In reply to #1018

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/18/2010 1:54 AM

I like it. ga.
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#1035
In reply to #1018

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/18/2010 12:37 PM

Transcendia could use a headquarters. I want an airport by the water you know. Made my own flag years ago. Make a flag, and you find out they take on a life of their own. Dangerous thing to make.

Transcendia is poorer than Haiti.

Moving the UN to Haiti crossed my mind too.

They speak one of the official languages there too. (French)

Might force them to do better about UNTV.

Sad they don't seem to put out a TV channel. If nothing else they ought to put one out internationally with strong educational value.

Long term only education is going to move the Haitians up.

We have been focused on simple shelter needs, but designs that work as schools look to me now as important to our catalogue.

I'm also turning to thinking that while the White Paper, has been aimed at Government and UN, and NGO type agencies, we would be wise to have one that worked as a Business Plan.

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#980
In reply to #969

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 2:06 AM

I'm sure if you and I got there with a gas powered cut-off machine and a couple hundredweight of discs, a welder and half a ton of rods, we could have them mobile in a flash.

I'd find enough machinery to cut up as donors, and then repair enough to be tugs/tractors.

In a recent photo I saw several ten yard tippers standing idle. There's our start.

Easy to convert a wrecked truck front axle assembly to a 'dolly'.

There'd be other machinery lying around as donors too.

Stu.

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#1003
In reply to #980

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 4:45 PM

Posted what I'd do if I had money to my site, Transcendia.org.

Looking like if we want to use shipping containers, somebody needs to pay for them, same as tents get paid for.

Whose got the check book?

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#970
In reply to #961
 Find in discussion

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/16/2010 11:37 PM

Here is a site that shows the use of chord-wheels for rail, bridge, and raft.
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#974
In reply to #970

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/17/2010 12:16 AM

You can be scalawag Chris; this is "Egyptology Theo-roy"

The most interesting quotable bit?

"Once the base outline of the temple was complete, only the temple priests were employed, following strict temple rules.

The smaller wall stones were squared and finished at the quarries, then encased in wood drums and rolled to the temple to be assembled by the priest construction crew.

Not forgetting;

(1) Per the film "In the time of Jesus" by Readers Digest.

----------------------

Just out of interest in the earlier "we found this" bit - Umm - a clay road? - Just add water? <is it raining yet?>

------------------------

Not that I mind at all - keep stretching "the Box"

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#1491
In reply to #51
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/23/2010 7:26 PM

GA from me Chris

By putting this in the public domain nobody will be able to patent it. Looks good to me and could be fabricated with minimum fuss. What a gem you are Chris, Ky.

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#1492
In reply to #1491

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/23/2010 7:47 PM

oopsie.. who knew? well you obviously..

maybe I should quick ask admin to remove this?? tell me quick Russell.

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#1493
In reply to #1492

Re: Shipping Container Housing

03/23/2010 7:57 PM

I thought that the wheels would come off Transendia and now they are being attached.

Lucky Russel!

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#21
In reply to #19
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/18/2010 1:56 AM

there is already a huge surplus of them in the world.. hundreds of thousands.. and they are so much better than shantytowns built out of garbage and scrap. At least they can be organized for safety and shelter. some can be placed belowgrade for storm and security shelter, and some could be placed overhead for flood shelter. depending on location and conditions.
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#28
In reply to #21

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/18/2010 4:25 PM

Yes and incorporated in the container are lock-down points which could be used to secure them to a foundation.

What number crunching exists determining the foundation data required at that location, storm wind loads etc.?

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#23
In reply to #19
 Find in discussion

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/18/2010 7:09 AM

They could be used as containers to ship relief goods in.

Agree. I meant to add that rider, but was too tired to be doing this, so missed it. Thanks for the correction.
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#59
In reply to #19
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Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/19/2010 11:12 PM

What about fitting the containers with medical equipment (a major need right now) that could be activated on arrival. Say 3 or 4 containers, each with a different set of capabilities would comprise a "set", covering the majority of medical functions; these would serve as treatment "rooms". Each one would be fitted with climate control and be outfitted with means to connect to external power, either grid or generator.

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#60
In reply to #59

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/20/2010 12:03 AM

when I was searching for 'containerized' documents in my previous post, I performed a search for containerized hosptal and containerized medical.. (didn't find much) because you are absolutely right! GA.
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#66
In reply to #60

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/20/2010 7:26 AM

I believe the Australian Army has outfitted containers as water treatment and hospital clinics as well as Command and Control (communication) centers.
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#61
In reply to #59

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/20/2010 12:13 AM

How fast could containers be delivered?

Not as fast as tents.

Medical supplies and doctors and tents will fit fast and go far on even lousy old aircraft that can far outstrip in speed any boats.

This particular thread is of great interest to me. For either battle or emergency the order of operations is very important.

Long I have advocated a number of vessels that were common, and now are not.

For instance while the helicopter is a terrific machine, it simply cannot carry all that a seaplane might.

Imagine what a good heavy lift seaplane, or even the Russian made ground effect transport could have done within the first 36 hours, impossible for standard aircraft, and ships currently in service these days?

The Port is a wreck. Cranes are fallen over. The containers we have discussed as shelter options, are litter.

While we always want the new best thing, it is unwise to abandon the old standby.

100 PBYs and well, so what if the port crane fell down?

In the mix of things to have I recommend integrated mechanisms, and logistics.

Truly it does appear that our abandonment of seaplanes has hobbled our capability to get stuff and people where they are needed in time during times of crisis, such as the crisis now going on in Haiti.

As a civilian, and only one who has studied these things, I am surely curious what Captain Moosie, may think of my judgements.

Sure enough it was and has been my goal to be able to direct others who know more than I do, and really some of my addiction to this forum comes from a desire to test the practicality of my concepts.

So far I have not addressed heavy machinery needed fully.

Now in the course of this thread, I am turning to Logistics.

Too bad for the souls lost, dying alone, that they died unnecessarily.

P.S. My neighbors who hated me moved to New Orleans prior to Katrina. I had read the Scientific American article that had predicted all that horror that came to pass there. I suggested to them that on arrival they find a helicopter pilot and pay him a retainer to come and get them when the predicted disaster occurred. Wonder how things went for them. They really hated me, and I doubt that they ever paid much mind to my suggestion.

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#62
In reply to #61

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/20/2010 12:24 AM

too true about the passing of older reliable technologies.. but that is the way it is.

.... something something something and grant me the serenity to know the difference.

When the US military can make 10000 sorties a day in the middle east during a war, and deliver all manner of military hardware with the C17 Globemaster, C5A Galaxy, and C130 Hercules with Parachute drops, I really don't think they will have a problem delivering material to Haiti, regardless of ports or runways. Its a political and financial issue, not a techical issue, as usual.

Chris
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#64
In reply to #62

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/20/2010 1:02 AM

Yes, logistics; the plan being what will be the most help! Medical aid has been needed most desperately there and may still be (I've been away from the news for the last couple of days). Oh, that I would have gone into medicine instead of engineering and had a thriving practice right now (and not too booked a schedule)! I would definitely go there and help, thus helping the financial issue.

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#9

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/17/2010 1:02 PM

I remember seeing articles of spraying urethane foam over an inflated "balloon". Embedding straps and cables in the foam that could secure them to the ground would prevent them from easily being blown away, same as trailers. Certainly, this would not suffice for permanent housing, but for quickly addressing an emergency situation, small dormitories could get people out of the weather until more permanent housing can be built, which could take months or years. Survivors of the Indian Ocean earthquake are still struggling.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/17/2010 2:53 PM

I'll mark this off topic, but I have heard of a similar construction technique, where concrete has been sprayed over an inflated bladder, or "balloon".

As well I made a little mistake in a prior post in this thread for typically to hold mobile homes in place, it is not spikes and wire rope that is employed, but spikes and steel straps.

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#11

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/17/2010 3:26 PM

You will need a crane and cutters and welders. Hope all goes well, Ky

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#12

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/17/2010 3:57 PM

I like the idea of shipping container emergency shelters. In my imagination, I can see a container ship showing up in a place like Haiti with 5000 30 foot containers, with all the technology onboard, to offload them in a reasonable amount of time. I can see trucks being able to relocate them to designated sites where running water and sewage disposal systems are also being provided. I can see some containers that have generators, some that have water purification systems, some that are refrigerated, and some show up full of food. I can see Heavy lift aircraft moving them too. I can see them moving on rail cars. I can seem them spanning creeks, I can see them being secure living shelters, insulated, with lights and plumbing. I can see modular wheel systems, so they can even be jacked and moved by hand or available tractor.

The subject of affordable shelter in impoverished regions is of interested to me... see here for a previous suggestion.

My brother used a 40 foot sea-can which he purchased for 3000$, and put 15,000$ worth of labour, materials, and relocation into it.. now he uses it as a 5 man hunting lodge.. runs on propane and generate. bring your own water.. dug and built an outhouse. Here in the oil patch in central Alberta, shipping containers get used for everything... but its mostly atco trailers they use for sleeping quarters.

In the summer I was at the De Beers Victor Diamond Mine in Northern Ontario, and slept for a month in the atco trailer system there... simple bunk, but water, power, food, safety, and internet, the living was quite acceptable.

They also stacked up 6 40 ft containers, and built a temporary welding shop (underneath)(portable diesel MIG welders)

Chris
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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/17/2010 5:46 PM

Some links per my previous post

Containerized Diesel Generator Unit

Containerized Gas Turbine Power Plant

Containerized Refrigeration (china)

Containerized Refrigeration (ThermoKing - no pics)

Strong Affordable Storm Ready Housing. Bob Vila

http://publik.tuwien.ac.at/files/PubDat_171121.pdf

Containerized Food Aid Issues

Chris

ps.. these links all came from www.pdf-search-engine.com
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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/17/2010 7:04 PM

Excellent, these cheap and extremely durable containers are often loaded up with scrap and sent to the furnaces.

I have a friend living in the US now, who sends scrap to Dacca, Bangladesh.

He claims it is the cheapest way to provide a container, even if it might need some weld repairs.

What a waste
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#15
In reply to #13

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/17/2010 7:28 PM

The lazy Canadian bastard is back. GA.

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/17/2010 9:00 PM

Aint read all the links but have noted there are supposedly 700 thousand of these things laying around.

In fact when years ago I was working at FLL spent some time in one myself that was used for aircraft parts storage.

One night about 4 AM, James Boy and Bill G, the Mechanic and I were trying to find a workable right tagged fuel pump for a R 2800.

Bill was tired and a bit grousey.

James got angry, and said, "We Are Not Here To Figure Out How Not To Do IT!

Really one of my favorite quotes.

Later I was given this particular container, and I in turn gave it to a friend of mine.

This was not easy to accomplish, and it has been so many years now all I remember of any particular detail was trying to co-ordinate moving it using two forklifts.

I had no access or much experience then with boomtrucks.

Having one would have made the job easier, not to mention safer.

I did look at one of the links and noted most of what I expected required to make such containers livable, such as cutting torches.

There may well be a good standard way to cut windows and doors into them, but just because something starts out strong, doesn't mean it will stay that way, and modifications such as cutting holes in it are not likely to improve the structural integrity.

Who knows which one of us is already in Haiti? I imagine of the 700 thousand containers some number are laying around at the docks of Port Au Prince.

In this particular thread it would be interesting to know how many are there, and to what uses they have been put.

In my own case, the one I spent time in, in Florida, was used for storage, and when it was given to me, I gave it away for the same purpose.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/17/2010 10:05 PM

Containers can be moved with a rollback truck

Containers are very robust structurally with a frame that doesn't require the walls unless you get to fully loaded condition.

The insecticides used on the floors would be another area of concern

here's wiki's take on the whole subject of containerized housing...
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#22
In reply to #16

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/18/2010 5:14 AM

Whatever happened to PortaCabins?

If there's so many ISO containers about, how come they're so expensive to buy 2nd hand, still about £800-£1000 for a good sized one.

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#29
In reply to #22

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/18/2010 4:27 PM

Paying the scrab value are ya?

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#833
In reply to #16

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/12/2010 11:34 AM

Good answer Trans....

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#43
In reply to #12

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/19/2010 12:53 AM

I purchased a shipping container model, just so I could stack up containers and see if I could come up with some interesting configurations.. (here's my first sea-can city )

If anyone has any arrangements they want to see, send me a quick sketch, and I will make a 3d render of it and send it to you.

Chris

ps. without cutting torches, welding equipment, cranes, and other tech, these structures can obviously not be built up (stairs, utilities, etc).. so obviously these sorts of structures are not for emergency purposes.
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#44
In reply to #43

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/19/2010 3:03 AM

Not much to see here Chris. What happened?

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#45
In reply to #43

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/19/2010 3:07 AM

Chris, forgive my ignorance, but are you saying that you purchased a digital model of a shipping container, or some of those "HO'' or N scale models, if digital I didn't know you could do that, where do you get digital models to play with, I could give em to my civil engineer friend.

Lynn

ps. cool sea-can city.

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#47
In reply to #45

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/19/2010 4:17 AM

I have a 3D CAD model (Inventor 2010) of a 40ft container which I downloaded from somewhere.

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#48
In reply to #45

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/19/2010 4:22 AM

ya, its some geometry plus textures.. for me, the texturing is the hard part right now.

each side is a different bitmap

http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/shop/itemdetails/-/?item=6882
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#46
In reply to #43

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/19/2010 3:18 AM

There ya go--a ziggurat (or Pieter Breughel's Tower of Babel)!

There was an architectural thread a few months ago on houses built from shipping containers. Some were very ingenious and pleasing. In the fishing industry, such containers are often added on boats for additional housing. They are called "Conexes", perhaps after a container brand name.

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#135
In reply to #43

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/24/2010 6:16 AM

Hi Chris, Some container details and concepts here,

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=bf2d742e3851329d8b96406924259588

and for handling, in this part of the world, self-loading truck equipment like this is usual. OK for movement, but limited to single level height lifts.

Good luck, Bob

http://www.steelbro.com/content/products/sidelifter/default.aspx
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#137
In reply to #135

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/24/2010 1:58 PM

excellent! If the containers are being constructed, they have to conform to DNV (Det Norske Veritas) standards. typically DNV 2.7-1 and DNV 2.7-3.

Chris
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#579
In reply to #137

Re: Shipping Container Housing ISO not DNV standards

02/07/2010 5:02 PM

ISO containers have to comply with ISO standards (the name rather gives it away). The general title is linked in operation with the Convention for Safe Containers (CSC). Der Norsk Veritas are one of a number of classification societies that can approve/witness the testing of prototype containers and their subsequent production.
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#587
In reply to #579

Re: Shipping Container Housing ISO not DNV standards

02/07/2010 6:03 PM

You are right.. that was what I meant by 'constructed'.
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#643
In reply to #135

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/08/2010 3:18 PM

Those are great for handling loaded containers.

Hiab are cheaper and ideal for lifting and positioning 20ft
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#186
In reply to #43

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 7:50 PM

I was forced to sit and wait from someone today... and nothing to do but stare at teh brick walls and tiled floors. Then it hit me.. the herringbone pattern of the floor would work for shipping containers to make a reasonably secure community.

...and there is no reason that Charlie's bricks can't be used on the outside of shipping containers after the windows and doors have been cut, to provide an insulating layer as protection from the sun, wind, etc. I'm sure they could even be put on the roof.

I think that, as I've previously said, to provide protection from gangs of thugs in trucks with guns, such configurations are important shelters for the innocent. the small corridors up the middle provide secure travel through the community. (Ilve left a few upper containers off to show the corridor on the left side)I'm sure such a community could be made rectangular in plan.. have shading covers spaning over open areas.. all the previously mentioned ideas.

As in the old days, I think that such secure communities need to be built surrounding a well or water supply.. just like the city-states of old. etc. A micro-community such as this can provide some structure and support to the residents for the essentials of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

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#189
In reply to #186

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 9:56 PM

That does bring up a good point, the steel of the containers would be an effective deterrent to most small arms fire

While a herring bone configuration would be good in a hurricane, not so much fun on a more typical steamy tropical day when any slight breeze is a blessing.

A typical scenario is for a mobile home to be installed on either a concrete foundation or several inches of gravel. At a later date a roof [ sometimes described as a ramada] is built over the home to increase the resistance to heat, cold & water. This roof is generally twice the size of the original structure. A similar path for containerized housing would seem likely.
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#191
In reply to #189

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 11:45 PM

I don't know guys, Chris, Garthh, There are better fort designs, like the pentagon shape, or the star shape. Then as well there is the circle. Napolean and the wagon trains used circles for defense and siege.

While the herringbone configuration may be attractive to you, it has some severe problems as far as your drawing related to sunlight, wind, and even in what it would take for a garbage truck to get down the alley to pick up the garbage.

Zigzagging trenches were utilized in trench warfare situations, but mature urban cities tend to gravitate towards grid patterns for a number of practical reasons.

Chicago maybe went a bit overboard with the grid, whereas Washington DC sucks in my opinion for too many circles and spokes making an everyday experience something akin to half lost all the time.

We cannot get shipping containers all modified and finely appointed all over Port-au-Prince before a new wave of weather assaults.

Best we can work towards is placing them where shacks or hovels were, so as to allow those whose home was shooken to bits to move their tents there, using the containers as a safe storage, and retreat shelter, as they attend to necessary day in an day out mundane demands, and can work on modifying the containers for the long term.

I'll bet that even if half them can't read, most all of them know which way the wind blows and where the sun shines, and where to put the boxes better than we do, since we don't live there. P.S. Manhattan and Rome are surprisingly similar in layout.

P.S. 2, while I am convinced shipping containers are a good way to go, I don't expect that everybody there has a cutting torch, or that there is a standard plan yet in place for how best to cut windows or doors into them. I'm saying they will work both short term and longterm since leaving people in tents on the beaches as storms come, is not a good idea.

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#257
In reply to #191

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/28/2010 2:23 PM

circle the wagons...

or the ever-popular affordable supercollider

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#258
In reply to #257

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/28/2010 3:16 PM

Interesting: For Napolean the circle was used for siege warfare as an efficient use of manpower. I think he used two, though it has been awhile since my study of Military tactics and strategies. : one circle is to look in, and the other is to look outwards. The idea is to contain, and control, preventing resupply of the city or army, and also preventing their escape.

For my purposes, Transcendian airport purposes defensively I would maintain such a system consistently for airport security.

Lots of people do seem to like computer games, and as a moneymaker I'll bet many would buy Haiti, the computer game...

We could give Haiti a cut.

I myself don't much play games, but I know they are played by many, and even surpassed music and movies as an American export product.

As a computer game, Haiti has great potential. You've got Voodoo, and Gangs, and empowered Politicians, Multinational corporations, International aid organizations.

Many games are problem solving based.

They've got gold in Haiti, you know. There's gold!

Yep, Haiti the computer game, It Would Be a Big Big Seller.

You and Maglin, Kaplin, could whip one up in no time, CL and Roger might even like it.

On other more mundane scores, I tried to get through to BP to see if they would sponsor getting some shipping container housing into and on Haiti, but was refused access by phone to anyone, since I had no name of anyone there. Don't know anybody there. Called the Houston office.

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#593
In reply to #189

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/07/2010 7:58 PM

A container wall (90% of it's profile) is made mostly from corten steel 1.6 to 2 mm thick (main structural member are manufactured using 4-6mm high tensile steel).

They offer no protection against small arms fire, particularly high velocity weapons.

I have repaired containers ex Northern Ireland (during the troubles) with bullet entry holes one end and exit holes the other (through the thickest 6mm part) Seeing this had a very salutary effect. I realised that whilst a container might hide me, it couldn't protect me.

And you should see what happens to a container load of apples when an anti tank round has been fired into it!

To offer meaningful protection against small arms fire (however defined) containers should to be at least filled with dirt or sand. Which is what I believe is done in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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#595
In reply to #593

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/07/2010 8:37 PM

Dear John,

I am very interested in stamp press designs for making submachine guns out of shipping containers. Obviously all shipping container housing needs fire power, as it important that they function not only as homes, but as tanks.

I myself am very fond of shotguns and look forward to seeing your designs for making those from the shipping containers.

Hopefully you will base your excellent designs on shotgun shell 12 gauge ammunition, since it is more common than 20 gauge, though I myself prefer 20 gauge shotguns.

Obviously you have captured our secret attempts to build forts in Haiti.

Please understand that I am lying.

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#672
In reply to #595

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/08/2010 8:04 PM

Hilarious.

This was written in reply to post 189, which you must have read and then forgot.

As I grow older I find my memory wandering too.
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#596
In reply to #593

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/07/2010 8:42 PM

J dude the 7th,

since you seem to feel your time is too valuable to be bothered with reading the posts, why are you here?

the ideas from Every one of your posts has been covered.

I offered friendly advice via pm

You want to be butt hurt, that's up to you.

You claimed to have looked at my posting history & concluded it is interesting. I have several 1000 posts on this site ranging from silly to serious. You have time to draw conclusions about me, but once again can't be bothered to read before you comment on this thread?

You asked to do this in public so be it.
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#647
In reply to #596

Re: Shipping Container Housing

02/08/2010 3:35 PM

You are one smart Dude!

Brilliant mind, erudite and for me the icing on the cake was your cunning use of the of the smilie at the end of the diatribe.

Award yourself some points.
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#190
In reply to #186

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/26/2010 10:15 PM

Yes I agree about the city states idea, small communities would do better for security and ecomoically.

GA chris

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#82
In reply to #12

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/20/2010 9:37 PM

Unfortunately, Chris, you have to think about getting the containers unloaded from a ship. There are no port facilities available, and trying to get containers from a ship to land in an emergency situation is not going to be trivial. Most container ships do not carry their own loading/unloading cranes- they are unloaded by (mostly automated) shore facilities. To relocate the landed containers by truck also requires roads on which to move the trucks, something I suspect is not feasible under current conditions. You are going to need a LOT of ships carrying 5000 containers to provide enough housing for 3,000,000 homeless people.

I read today that after three days of relief effort, 600,000 meals have been distributed, and 200,000 bottles of water. This for 3,000,000 people that need a minimum of two meals a day and two bottles of water a day...

Doctors without Borders has had five flights filled with medical equipment turned away from the Port-au-Prince airport, because there just is not enough space in the airport to handle all of the flights that are coming in. A hospital ship has arrived, and they are airlifting the most-seriously injured where possible to the hospital ship, but the ship can only handle something like 1000 patients. How many hundreds of thousands need medical attention? I don't know if a C7 could land in Port-au-Prince. I don't know if they are airlifting injured out on the flights that do get through, although I did read that a group of orphans have been airlifted to the States.

I don't like putting a damper on the enthusiasm here, but for much of what is being discussed here, it just isn't feasible, due to the magnitude of this tragedy.
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#85
In reply to #82

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/20/2010 10:28 PM

unfortunately.. you are right.

what if... the organizations who are collecting funds could rent a cruise ship for a couple of weeks.. maybe not... people won't want to give up their cruises even if the owners were willing.

but how come we can't fly over certain zones. and parachute out sacks of rice, grain, and other food and water packages that can survive a parachute landing?

I saw video of a military helicopter throwing bags out the side door... but that just seems the slow way to do it.

at least give the basics... even if it isn't a cooked meal... boxes of cereal and cans of stew or soup... I dunno. bags of milk.

Chris
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#86
In reply to #85

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/20/2010 11:56 PM

Suggest you check out Seaplanes on Google, or wherever. Canadiar has some big one, though not big enough.

WIG or wing in ground effect aircraft, boats, are of interest.

Discussion thread, while centered on containers has raised issues of fast reaction vehicles, ground strip airports, and their limitations, for which either seaplanes, or ground effect craft could have filled the gap.

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#87
In reply to #86

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/21/2010 12:27 AM

oh ya I totally agree with you... I would love to see lots of those craft operating.. but I also don't think it can be put together in time to be effective for this calamity....

but I'm one of those would love to see some special craft for land, sea, water etc put into the hands of volunteer search and rescue teams, militia, military, and whoever will keep them going and operate them.

Chris
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#88
In reply to #85

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/21/2010 12:34 AM

check this out... a newsletter I subscribe to... hadn't read it until just now. (bold is by me)

Vacations To Go Cruise Newsletter‏

To: chrisg288@hotmail.com

Dear Mr. Gorham,

Shortly before 6:00pm on January 12th, an earthquake measuring 7 on the Richter scale struck the tiny Caribbean nation of Haiti. The epicenter of the quake was about 10 miles south of Port-Au-Prince, the country's densely populated capital, and the destruction was catastrophic.

Countless homes, businesses, hospitals and schools were reduced to piles of rubble, as were the U.N. headquarters and the Presidential Palace. Tens of thousands are dead or injured and thousands more are unaccounted for. Aftershocks continue to rock the capital.

Within hours, the United States pledged $100 million in relief funds and took the lead in delivering food and water, rescue workers and supplies. A Canadian military plane carrying supplies was among the first to arrive. Brazil, China, Spain, France, Russia, Cuba, Britain, Israel, Iceland and at least 10 other countries are sending food and supplies and/or have rescue workers on the ground. Efforts have been hampered by damage to the airport, impassable roads, lack of power and downed telephone lines.

While destruction is severe in Port-Au-Prince, many areas of Haiti have reported little or no damage. The Dominican Republic, which shares the island of Hispaniola with Haiti, suffered no damage and the many resorts in that country have been unaffected.

Only two cruise lines visit Haiti -- Royal Caribbean and sister company Celebrity. Both call on Labadee, a private destination operated by Royal Caribbean on the northern coast of Haiti.

The initial assessment revealed no damage in Labadee and all shoreside personnel have been accounted for and are uninjured. (Two of the port's attractions, the Zip Line and Alpine Coaster, will remain closed until a thorough inspection can be conducted to ensure their safety.)

No cruise ships were in port at the time the earthquake struck. Royal Caribbean's Independence of the Seas returned to Labadee on Friday, January 15th, carrying passengers and relief supplies including rice, dried beans, powdered milk, water and canned goods. The company has pledged to contribute at least $1 million in humanitarian relief.

"Royal Caribbean wants to do its part to help out not only the general response, but also our hundreds of Haitian employees and their families through this disaster," said Richard D. Fain, chairman and chief executive officer of Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.

"In addition to our financial contribution, Royal Caribbean will continue to provide economic support through the continuous business we bring to Labadee," Fain added.

Three more Royal Caribbean and Celebrity ships will call on Labadee in the next two weeks, each bringing supplies that will be distributed by Food for the Poor. In addition, the line will donate 100% of their net revenue earned in Labadee to relief efforts.

Leslie Voltaire, Special Envoy of the government of Haiti to the United Nations said, "We welcome the continuation of the positive economic benefits that the cruise ship calls to Labadee contribute to our country."

Royal Caribbean plans to use a portion of the $1 million donation to augment the company's Crew Relief Fund, which can be drawn on by any of the company's more than 200 Haitian crew members for assistance, and will match employee contributions to their partner organizations -- Food for the Poor, Pan American Development Foundation and the Solano Foundation, the company's foundation in Haiti.

The people of this impoverished country face a long and difficult road as they rebuild their lives. Our thoughts and prayers are with those who are injured and suffering and those who lost loved ones, homes and businesses.

Alan Fox
Chairman & CEO
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Geoff Daly
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#299
In reply to #82

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/30/2010 2:15 PM

Cwarner7.

What Chris and may others have put forward is very doable...especially if you go to the latest GOOGLE EARTH map of Haiti.

You see spread out all through out the port area of Port Au Prince nearly 7,000 containers and more than 500 trailer beds/chassis. There is now today 750 containers with relief materials being off-loaded by the Seebee's and USACE in the harbor using standard US army floating equipment and cranes. So now there will be 7,750 HOMES, with more to follow

In those containers is the food/water and other supplies desparately needed by the Haitian people. The roads are becoming easier to travel each day as they are cleared by the Haitian people.

But what they need more so is better shelter than the UN, IOM, USAID is plaaning to briging in ...200,000 family tents at a cost of $47 miilion and with the rain/wet, Hurricane season is about to start..tents will not work then...containers will and offer safer/better short and long term SHELTER than the shanty towns they have been forced to leave and to which they will/may have to eventually return too.

Haiti is very family-community related...so rebuild and not displace these entities.

Lets use someif not all of the money to do this work on the container idea and not wasted on tents that will be blown away in the first storm in about 6 weeks. Cancel the tents.

Remember the Haitian people are resilient and if offered the chance for better shelter they will also assist in the clearance of there ravaged shanty homes for a better shelter. When they see what it can give them now and for the future...a better shelter and way of life...not a tin shanty shack ot tarpoline roof

We just have to get the NGO's off there butts and speak with the people and LISTEN TO THEM (a good busines friend has just come back from there and he spoke with his on the ground staff about what they needed and how to effect there needs..is being done. He is a senior officer and board member with a major transportation company with offices and warehouses in Haiti and Dominican Republic and he has got it going .....much to the chagrin of the UN, IOM, USAID officials who requested reams of paperwork. His reply was NO , NO TIME FOR BS and RED TAPE).

The containers coming next week number approximately 1275.

So lets give everyone who has contributed ideas, suggestions, help, all our needed support for using whats on the ground now with more coming (there is nearly 6.5 million containers parked up and own the eastern seaboard from China that can be used (many are currently being cut up for scrap...SHAME).

Get in touch with who ever and rattle there cage into getting USAID to back off with the paperwork BS...seems just like FEMA mentality.... they cannot think outside the box- look at New Orleans now years after Katrina, still desolete in many areas due to BS within FEMA/USACE.

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hotwater
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#18

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/17/2010 10:17 PM

You only have to talk to the US Army about using shipping containers, over the years they have experimented with many ideas using containers. They still prefer tent and air structors for mobile use due to the logistics.

There is a company I think in North Carolina that is making outdoor bars with containers.

There was some years ago a Japanse Company that did a complex out of containers. I beleve the artical was in Popler Mechanic magazine

For emergency's you would do well to use a self inflating structor similer to a large dome, easy to transport, delever and set up. Could be air dropped by plane or helocopter and hunderds would fit in one container ready for instance use.
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CaptMoosie
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#24

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/18/2010 9:14 AM

Hello All,

Please note that I first proposed this idea of utilizing shipping containers for temporary or permanent housing in Haiti several days ago in a blog. I have even gone as far as writing (via emails) to the President and several New York State Senators about this idea.

The idea has a great deal of merit and utility, and with minor modifications they can be made habitable. BTW, not all container units have to be modified to include toilets and showers. It would make more economical and timeline sense to have a cluster of units specially made for that purpose.

FYI, the US Army, USAF, and USMC uses them in Iraq and Afghanistan for housing units and storage facilities at various bases. Believe me, the US military has the means to transport these containers to locations anywhere on the island where they are needed once they arrive at the Port-a-Prince harbor, but first the US Navy and others have to salvage and repair the harbor facilities.

As for making modifications to the containers, the US Army Corp of Engineers has already done the research and experimentation.....and it is all included in a USACE Field Manual.....cutting small holes in the roof for Solar PV exhaust fans and windows on the side walls won't degrade the strength of the containers too much. I once served with the Corps and we used salvaged container units for working field office trailers....a perfect economical solution at hand!!!!

signed,

CaptMoosie, former Captain USA/USAR

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spacecannon
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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/18/2010 2:02 PM

Capt., You don't happen to have one of those USACE field manuels do you or a source?

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CaptMoosie
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#32
In reply to #25

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/18/2010 4:51 PM

Hello spacecannon,

Sorry I don't have a copy of the USACE Field Manual for Shipping Containers. I resigned my Officer's Commission and left the Reserves some 19 years ago in 1991 after returning from Desert Storm.

I believe you may be able to download the Field Manual from the USACE website since it isn't classified.

One thing I hear peeps in this blog complaining about is the questionable structural rigidity and strength of the steel shipping containers. Let me reassure all of you out there that there will not be any need to worry about these containers being able resisting Hurricane force winds, even if you cut in a couple of Small windows and roof ventilation holes. These containers are build for real battering at sea and for rough handling at port facilities. Most, if not all, of them are manufactured from Cor-Ten weathering steel.....and all boxes are shop welded to withstand (I believe) 200 mph wind forces. All you have to worry about is uplift and turn-over due those winds plus gusts. All you need to do is lay down a concrete slab of required thickness to resist the wind forces and plant a whole bunch of these on the new concrete tarmac, row after row after row.....heck, you can even stack them one upon another since there are locking mechanisms already built into the containers.

A couple more Cents added.....

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Transcendian
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#26
In reply to #24

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/18/2010 3:25 PM

At this point I still wonder how many of these containers are already in Port a Prince, and what they are being used for right now.

Thought it is at least a port, so it would seem some of these containers ought to already be there.

Who knows, maybe later all of Port a Prince will become rebuilt using bulldozers, and boomtrucks, containers, and cutting torches.

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Transcendian
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#68
In reply to #24

Re: Shipping Container Housing

01/20/2010 12:14 PM

Order of Response:Short Term Air Dispatch of Rescue Personnel and Equipment. (Rescue equipment does call for Heavy Equipment. I wonder if this part of the response was in the case of Haiti, out of order? Granted in the case of Haiti there was some heavy equipment at the port.) Medical Personnel and Equipment.

Food and Water and Shelter.

Long Term: In the case of Haiti, I am inclined to view container homes as more in the long term solution to building needs, than as short term.

I feel it is a particular case.

Notes: It would appear that missing from the transport mix are seaplanes, which have unique capabilities not satisfied by either helicopters, or ships.

What say you Captain?

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