Previous in Forum: Hotpoint Fridge Freezer - Wiring Diagram   Next in Forum: Using Cable Gland for 10mm Cu Pipe?
Close
Close
Close
Page 1 of 6: « First 1 2 3 Next > Last »
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing -

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Burnt Ranch, State of Jefferson
Posts: 688
Good Answers: 20

Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/30/2011 11:47 AM

"The science is now all-but-settled on global warming, convincing new evidence demonstrates, but Al Gore, the IPCC and other global warming doomsayers won't be celebrating. The new findings point to cosmic rays and the sun - not human activities - as the dominant controller of climate on Earth."

from: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100102296/sun-causes-climate-change-shock/

__________________
“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” -Mark Twain
Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: Al Gore global warming sun
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42291
Good Answers: 1662
#1

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/30/2011 12:04 PM

So, are you saying that all that man made pollution, not just CO2, is a good thing? You can't possible by that misguided, can you?

Or, do you subscribe to the Sara Palin phylosophy of, "Pump, baby Pump"!

I can get you into the Tea Party if those are your thoughts.

Register to Reply
8
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/30/2011 12:27 PM

I don't see him saying that at all.

The experiment seems to propose that the dominant factor for a warming Earth may be external or extraterrestrial in nature.

That does not make humans blame free. However, should the research hold up, it does add weight that we should not be hyperventilating with legislative action to try to curb a problem that is not significantly our doing.

That simply means that some sensibility needs to enter the scene so that we are not over reacting. It also does not mean that we should simply disregard our environment.

A balanced scientific (not political) approach is best. However, global warming has been hijacked for political purposes long ago, so stopping that train is not going to be easy.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 8)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42291
Good Answers: 1662
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/30/2011 12:51 PM

Maybe a slight over reaction on my part.

However, if one looks back over the last few million years, one will see many climatic variations from hot to cold and back again. These run at loosely 10,000 year cycles.

While we very well may be seeing an upward heating trend caused by forces beyond our control, to say that human emissions don't have an effect is not logical. Indeed to say, as some radicals have, that the earth is not warming at all is folly.

As I've said before, the earth will exist long after we humans have rendered it uninhabitable. We've got a good start on it already. Pump, baby, pump!

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#9
In reply to #3

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/30/2011 2:42 PM

That is the thing that I feel needs to be honestly addressed; what portion of the Earth's changes are anthropogenic?

There are too many entities with a stake in that answer to get an honest answer. Just follow the money and you can see what I mean.

It is easy to see how a research establishment will sleep with the devil when the directors of those institutions realize that the funding they are about to receive keeps that institution alive and able to continue research in other areas. It's just the nature of the business.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42291
Good Answers: 1662
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/30/2011 3:06 PM

So then, the question becomes what can be done to mitigate mankind's poisoning of the planet so that we can at least survive until the next mega-ice age, or perhaps Yellowstone.

Maybe by then we'll be living on the moon.

Register to Reply
4
Guru
Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - Time to take control United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA
Posts: 2105
Good Answers: 87
#13
In reply to #10

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/30/2011 3:33 PM

Actually, I think the question becomes "can we get past the politics and truly use good science to evaluate whether mankind's poisoning of the planet is significant enough to warrant the huge expense being touted as the solution AGW?"

Many believe the answer is yes....and so firm is their belief they are not willing to accept any other answer regardless of what other data comes along.

I am all for efficient use of resources, but I don't think that's possible with politics driving the discussion.

When the media and even academia vilify or ostracise scientist, researchers, journalist or even everyday citizens because they are skeptical of the push to fund all sorts of carbon offset programs and such, then it makes me wonder how sound the science really is.

__________________
J B
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 4)
3
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#16
In reply to #10

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/30/2011 3:41 PM

Not in my mind...

The first question is how much are we really fowling up the planet. The answer to that question will drive our action plan and how fast we must act.

If, for example, we are responsible for 30% of the problem, or less, the sense of urgency may be much different than what we would do if our contribution is 90%.

As engineers we should always try to first understand the problem before meeting out the solution. My opinion is that we don't understand the problem very well if at all.

It is prudent to not run roughshod over the planet, which means that we should be careful with our planet, but it is also prudent to not overreact.

To answer your question we may not need to do anything or at least very little at this time if the anthropogenic portion of the problem is a small percentage.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42291
Good Answers: 1662
#20
In reply to #16

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/30/2011 4:24 PM

"or at least very little at this time if the anthropogenic portion of the problem is a small percentage".

Granted, if the only problem we have is "global warming". I think something else may kill us all first. I'm investing in water purification, myself.

Drill, baby, drill!

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - Time to take control United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA
Posts: 2105
Good Answers: 87
#21
In reply to #20

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/30/2011 4:43 PM

Or we may just wipe ourselves out by some other mechanism entirely (i.e. GMO foods resulting in super-bugs which we can't get rid of).

__________________
J B
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42291
Good Answers: 1662
#23
In reply to #21

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/30/2011 5:01 PM

Right, we keep inventing evermore complex ways to do it.

Where's HAL9000?

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - Technical Services Manager Canada - Member - Army brat Popular Science - Cosmology - What is Time and what is Energy? Technical Fields - Architecture - Draftsperson Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Clive, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 5898
Good Answers: 204
#45
In reply to #21

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/31/2011 8:22 AM

or we could wipe ourselves out by "fowling up" the planet.. meaning to cover it with birds.... I think AH meant 'fouling up'.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#48
In reply to #45

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/31/2011 9:07 AM

:-)

Yes, you are correct. Damn new spell checker rides again.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - Technical Services Manager Canada - Member - Army brat Popular Science - Cosmology - What is Time and what is Energy? Technical Fields - Architecture - Draftsperson Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Clive, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 5898
Good Answers: 204
#88
In reply to #48

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/31/2011 9:21 PM

s'allright.. I still gave you a ga.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I'm outa here
Posts: 1924
Good Answers: 196
#63
In reply to #16

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/31/2011 12:05 PM

"As engineers we should always try to first understand the problem before meeting out the solution."

That's a valid approach to simple problems like test and homework exercises. But real world problems are often highly complex and understanding them comes in stages. Thus solutions must also come in stages. To do nothing in the face of obvious climate change and retreat into a simple "black and white" belief system is the wrong path.

At this point the guiding philosophies ought to be "do no harm" and "strengthen our defenses". To which I might add "avoid long term commitments to waterfront property". .....Ed Weldon

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Petroleum Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spring, Texas
Posts: 3403
Good Answers: 149
#65
In reply to #63

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/31/2011 12:13 PM

"do no harm" should of course apply to the economy as well. The law of unintended consequences is always in play, but you have to wonder sometimes if the economic devastation these people are wielding is truly unintended.

__________________
Who is John Galt?
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1753
Good Answers: 59
#68
In reply to #63

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/31/2011 12:54 PM

NO, NOT ON YOUR BEHIND!! There is not one problem solving, that can be classed this or that way, conveniently. YOU, YOURSELF has to stand up, and be counted, one way or other, declaring yourself first, and I do not care which. Then, only after then is there a chance of any honest discussion. Tough!

This note is not personal. But I had enough.

The debate was MADE personal, by your guru Gore's declaration, that anybody not in lockstep with his decree is somehow a racist substandard human being.

Sonny, I was born under Hitler as substandard. Grew up under Stalin as substandard. And I will be damned, if anybody is allowed to label me again that way. Not him, not his followers, not even by implication. Got it?

THIS IS BLACK OR WHITE.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 4)
2
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#76
In reply to #63

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/31/2011 2:02 PM

I would respectively disagree.

The reason is that the stakes are very high. The potential for environmental damage is one thing. However, the medication could also kill the patient.

Doctors do their best to always understand the problem first before applying treatment.

There are variation to that theme. Sometimes the criticality of the situation demands immediate action that prevents careful analysis, but doctors still try to get as much data as possible to make the best decisions that they can.

What we do not want is a rash decision or legislation that causes a fragile world economy to collapse only to find out that the medication prescribed either did not work or was not even needed.

If the economy tanks there will be people that die from that fallout.

I also stand by my original statement. Engineers, by training, should always be analyzing the problems, not simply applying a shotgun. Shotguns are primarily for technicians fixing VCRs (although it may be prudent for an engineer to borrow them once in awhile).

Personally, if I had an engineer that did not analyze the problem and simply tried random solutions to see if this fixes it now, I would fire them.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Izmir, Turkey
Posts: 2142
Good Answers: 31
#78
In reply to #76

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/31/2011 2:15 PM

Good points!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I'm outa here
Posts: 1924
Good Answers: 196
#81
In reply to #76

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

08/31/2011 3:21 PM

But is CO2 emission control just a random solution? No. There is plenty of science to support it. And there is a good amount of hyperbole regarding the economic effects of that control. I submit that the lethal economic effects would be fairly limited unless you are in the business of coal mining or building related equipment.

Is humanity capable of redirecting some of its productivity away from production and consumption of fossil fuels and toward other rewarding uses via a system of revenue neutral carbon taxes? I believe so and feel that this can be done without wrecking any broad economic entities.

We are not talking a rash "shotgun" approach. A lot of good science and careful analysis is behind proposals to limit carbon emissions. Remember, the environment we are trying to save is the one we touch and feel every day. This is not about some cute little animal off in some distant forest. It's about the air, water, wind and temperatures we live in or may no longer be able to live in as the case might be.

Ed Weldon

Register to Reply
Power-User
Australia - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 22
#217
In reply to #76

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/04/2011 3:19 AM

Doctors do their best to understand the problem... sure. But here's an analogy:

Doc: I think you have signs of lung damage - a precursor to lung cancer. You should definitely quit smoking.

Patient: Is the damage 100% definitely due to smoking?

Doc: Well, I can't say with 100% certainty.

Patient: Well, then I won't quit until you're sure. There are tobacco industry lobbyists who claim there are studies showing smoking doesn't cause cancer.

Doc: Well this is science, we can never be 100% sure... we just go by the evidence.

Patient: Well - don't waste my time - I'm not changing my lifestyle on your hunch.

Doc: (gives up exasperated)

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#218
In reply to #217

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/04/2011 8:22 AM

That is a pretty good analogy, Robert.

However, smoking is something that one can do without (the addiction not withstanding) and does not negatively impact one's life by quitting. In fact the opposite happens.

Where the analogy really breaks down is that the things that cause CO2 pollution are essential to our lifestyle and our economy.

Perhaps a better analogy would be; instead of quitting smoking the doctor recommends not breathing in. It would fix the inhalation of smoke, but the side effect would be worse than the cure.

The problem in the real world is finding ways to reduce the root causes of environmental damages and climate change with the minimal disruption to our standard of living. Both the environment and our economic wellbeing are fragile.

Where the argument gets heated (no pun intended) is first, quantifying the threat and second, determining the urgency of the threat.

Furthermore, where the argument gets clouded is that the whole subject matter has been used as a political football as a means to control humans and accumulate power. The political infection is extensive and intentionally set up so that it is no longer possible to weed out what is truth and what is pretense. We just can't get a trusted answer from the leaders we are supposed to trust.

Now it is the "doctor" that is suspect and it is the "patient" that is exasperated.

Register to Reply
Power-User
Australia - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 22
#219
In reply to #218

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/04/2011 9:12 AM

But the problem with your response to my argument is that you have obviously bought the lie that smoking is harmful and your life will improve if you quit. Sure, just about every health expert in the world agrees that smoking is harmful, and the vast (vast vast) majority of peer reviewed studies have shown direct correlation between smoking and illness; but surely in the interests of fair and balanced reporting we have to give equal airplay and credence to that small group of researchers who, with or without tobacco industry funding, have produced counter-arguments.

Now, I don't know of a single expert who has claimed breathing is harmful, or that not-breathing is healthy. But of course if even one can be found then (in the interests of fair and balanced reporting) he or she should also be given equal airplay and credence in the world media, and the few million or so health professionals worldwide who claim we do need to breathe can then be revealed as the vile and economy-destroying conspiracy theorists they obviously are.

Incredibly, until I read some of the posts in this thread, I had no idea that every single climate scientist in the world who supported the hypothesis that the 26 gigatonnes of CO2 we send into the atmosphere each year (that's about 3.4% of the total CO2 emitted by all of nature every year, every scrap of which is reabsorbed by nature, so our contribution is a nett annual increase) might indeed be responsible for some amount of climate change was a communist in the pay of some mysterious green alliance. Now that I know that I will certainly stop believing in peer-reviewed science.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#222
In reply to #219

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/04/2011 10:56 AM

Now you are just being absurd.

First, the problem with your analogy is that the proof of anthropogenic climate change and the detriments of smoking are not equal nor related.

You are trying to show that because the science of smoking is well known to be harmful, therefore anthropogenic climate change must also true. That is a flat out fallacy of logic.

You can't prove what you are trying to prove by using an example of something totally unrelated.

I believe we have a better understanding of the amount of CO2 we are contributing to the atmosphere than we have an understanding of what that effect is.

My point has been consistently that we do not have enough understanding of the effect of CO2 (or any other greenhouse gas) we anthropogenically introduce to even make a reliable prediction of that effect.

Regardless of the fact of the amounts of CO2 we contribute we can not predict our future. That fact has been established because all of our previous predictions have been shown to be historically false or incorrect or the spectrum of possible scenarios runs from one extreme to the other. Bottom line, we just don't know enough yet.

Robert, it is absolutely senseless to run off in a panic and order the world to shut down as Al Gore is trying to sell us.

A sensible plan is to improve our footprint on this planet, but not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

As our understanding increases on the subject we will be better able to target fixes to the problem both short and long term.

Lastly, until we get the politics out of this we are doomed to paralysis on the subject. Frankly, I just don't know how we will do that.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#225
In reply to #222

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/04/2011 11:45 AM

There is so much that we don't understand. I think it's far too early to be blaming people, when we don't even undertand what this does completely.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#226
In reply to #225

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/04/2011 12:29 PM

This is an interesting read. Although, even with this, it's interesting to note that the authors are conflicted within their own heads. They point out sudden and dramatic climate shifts, (including warming), over the the last 130,000 years that occured without human input, and summarize this paper insisting that the current changes are man made.

So how are we supposed to figure out the truth????

These guys provide solid scientific evidence, (ice core sample data), to prove past warming events, and then arbitrarily blame humans for the current cycle, with nothing to back it up. I don't get it.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I'm outa here
Posts: 1924
Good Answers: 196
#228
In reply to #226

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/04/2011 1:48 PM

"These guys provide solid scientific evidence, (ice core sample data), to prove past warming events, and then arbitrarily blame humans for the current cycle, with nothing to back it up. I don't get it."

Generally people writing on matters of science do not cite references to science that is already accepted as fact (by an overwhelming number of peer reviews of many published papers). For this author to include a bibliography of references to support his position, as is the case for most formal published scientific papers or credible books, he would have had to add perhaps as many pages as the original paper.

If you have waded through these types of papers (in my case fairly blindly) you can appreciate why the writers of important works of this type will often try to distill their findings into something more readable for the layperson leaving out the footnotes, bibliography and endless data and computations.

If you really want to get the skinny on the validity of the writer's position go dig up the original paper(s) and scan through the peer reviews looking for critical comments. This is not always easy since publishers tend not to give these things away for free. And not all of us have ready access to the major university libraries where copies are available.

Ed Weldon

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#229
In reply to #228

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/04/2011 3:21 PM

If there is credible scientific evidence that shows that human activity is directly related to the current climate shift...................why not make it easy to find? It sure would put a halt to a bunch of bickering.

There is evidence of increased CO2 levels that can be attributed to humans.

There is evidence that we are indeed in the midst of a climate shift................of which there have been many throughout history.

There is an amazingly giant hole in information that shows that humans are directly responsible for the current climate shift. That's where the problem lies.

Al Gore has done an incredible injustice to the actual science by crowning himself the poster boy of global warming, and then seeking to enhance his personal wealth through carbon trading schemes. He should be serving time with Bernie Madoff. Life in prison.

If I eat a cheeseburger and realize the next morning that I have an ingrown toenail, I can't automatically reach the conclusion that cheeseburgers cause ingrown toenails. That would make no sense. And yet this is exactly what we're seeing with climate change science. 1)There is more CO2 in the air due to human activity. 2)We are experiencing a climate shift....................................they must be related.

My question is..........................WHY?

I'm sorry. I don't believe the answer is buried in a major university library. In fact, I don't think there is an answer at this point.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I'm outa here
Posts: 1924
Good Answers: 196
#230
In reply to #229

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/04/2011 6:03 PM

"There is an amazingly giant hole in information that shows that humans are directly responsible for the current climate shift..... " -- Kramarat

What you call a giant hole is what others call "atmospheric sciences".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_sciences

It's an immense subject and like any other science the knowledge of it is not complete. Like other complex subjects (medical science is an example) very bright people endure long educations and spend entire careers mastering pieces of it. When these folks look at real evidence (good enough to wither the brutal peer review process) of both climate change and human contributions and let their perceptions be guided by their own knowledge of the rest of the science their majority agrees that humans are partly responsible for the climate change.

If you do not want to trust these people with their conclusions that's your choice. You might as well distrust doctors and civil engineers and a host of other professions. Because they are all influenced by the same human traits and frailties. But then who are you going to trust? Your Aunt Mathilda? Some fellow who tells you a nicer story followed by "Contributions are greatly appreciated." (so I can buy groceries)? Your own perceptions that perhaps come up a bit short in the critical skills and knowledge needed to the data in your viewfield (let alone the greater expanse and accuracy of scientifically gathered data).

As to the cheeseburger/toenail analogy .... that's one of the first filters any credible scientific conclusion must pass through. I do not fear that at the legitimate scientific analysis level of climate change research. But all too often people will trot out such anecdotes to support a position biased toward some personal gain or objective.

There have been plenty of books written on the subject. They are invariably distillations of data and conclusions into a form people will read and understand. In a legal sense they are not evidence. Only the raw data accompanied by all the details of how it was gathered and analyzed is evidence. We usually leave it to the trained legitimate researchers to deal with that.

Maybe there is a central repository available to the general public of all the major papers on this subject. I'm sure that is the case with government sponsored research like what NASA does. Maybe the rest also. I'm a layman here and have not gone looking for it. Nor do I have the skills to well interpret what I'd find. The little experience this mechanical engineer with paper reading in this field leaves me dazzled and mystified even by the abstracts and conclusions of the papers let alone the bodies of the papers.

What I have learned from 42 years of a mechanical engineering career is that you must trust the work of scientists and mathematicians whose prior work you use in your everyday efforts. To be otherwise would quickly make it impossible to work at a professional level because in your heart you would not trust the validity of the engineering work you produce. Further you would quickly lose the confidence of your professional peers if you exposed such distrust within yourself. Engineers who have been through a university engineering or science curriculum are acutely sensitive to evidence that a peer or anyone else for that matter has a belief system based on supposedly scientific information that is not valid. You've seen what happens when someone on CR-4 promotes some over unity scheme or violation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics. I think the same type of culture exists in all branches of science including atmospheric sciences.

You can call that a conspiracy. I suppose it is a conspiracy of sorts. A conspiracy of dedication to provable truths is what I'd call it. You will find better and more complete definitions than that. That's what science is all about.

Ed Weldon

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#234
In reply to #230

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/04/2011 8:45 PM

Ed,

Please provide me a link that proves:

A) CO2 causes warming.

B) Humans are responsible for the current climate shift.

Show me, and I will be shouting in the streets.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
2
Power-User
Australia - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 22
#243
In reply to #234

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/05/2011 6:43 AM

Kramarat, I think you are a tad confused about science.

For instance, can you send me a link that proves the first or second laws of thermodynamics? You can't. Because thay have never been proved. In fact as far as we know they cannot be proved (mathematically or otherwise). They do, however, remain the cornerstone of all thermal science and engineering and will remain so until disproved.

That's what science is - it is the best hypothesis to fit the available evidence.

Climate science is no different. Of course you can't prove humans cause global warming. You can't even get a link that proves force is proportional to mass times acceleration (particularly because it's not actually true). You don't have to believe it and it is great to be sceptical of the hypothesis.

But science doesn't work by believing the things that have been proved to be true, it works by accepting what experts in the field have agreed upon or otherwise proving them wrong by providing a better explanation (like Einstein did when everyone else had agreed Newtonian mechanics explained the universe... Certainly they provide a very bloody good hypothesis (particularly coming from a pom!), but they can never be proved. Almost nobody remotely doubted them and then Einstein showed they were actually wrong, or at least inadequate).

So if you have a better explanation on climate science, go off and win a Nobel prize with it. Believe what you want to believe, but don't be religious about it by asking for a link to the ultimate and undeniable proof - be scientific about it by weighing the evidence - (and no I can't send you a link to the evidence - ... if you want to dispute it you need to spend time understanding the nuances of climate science).

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#247
In reply to #243

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/05/2011 11:57 AM

I'm not really confused about science.

I am confused though. Call me crazy, but I'd at least like to see something that indicates that taxing CO2 and destroying our economy is going to ease global climate change. I'm not comfortable with just trying it to see what happens.

Unlike thermodynamics, when science leads to laws being passed that impact my wallet and my life, I'd like to see a little more than, "This is our best hypothesis."

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#248
In reply to #247

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/05/2011 12:40 PM

Taxing CO2 won't ruin the economy, it will probably be a benefit, creating jobs

it will change the winners & losers

increasing the cost of energy will benefit local & regional manufacturing

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#249
In reply to #248

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/05/2011 1:03 PM

Just my opinion.

I don't think incomplete science and hypotheses should drive policy decisions within the government. I'm also not comfortable with the government determining who the winners and losers are.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42291
Good Answers: 1662
#250
In reply to #249

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/05/2011 1:11 PM

Government doesn't determine the winners, or losers. Big business, who owns congress, does that.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#254
In reply to #249

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/06/2011 11:00 AM

Government always has & always will determine who the winners & losers are, your comfort level can be expressed at the ballot box & a few other ways

the moderate majority needs to speak with one more unified voice & stop letting the extremists divert attention from all the hard work that needs to be done

increasing efficiency of all things, using tried & true methods

failure analysis

more informed opinion

less sound byte

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#251
In reply to #248

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/05/2011 2:09 PM

You wrote, "increasing the cost of energy will benefit local & regional manufacturing"

Yes, increasing my cost of operation is just what I need. Or did I miss something?

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#253
In reply to #251

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/06/2011 10:50 AM

no idea?

things are going to change, energy is going to cost more [even without a carbon tax]

India & China are going to continue raise their standard of living which takes energy

more consumers, chasing their share of a pie, an energy pie that can't expand fast enough

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#256
In reply to #253

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/06/2011 11:19 AM

So, explain why and how paying more for my electricity will benefit my company and employees?

How will a higher cost of operation benefit my customers?

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I'm outa here
Posts: 1924
Good Answers: 196
#257
In reply to #256

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/06/2011 11:32 AM

AH -- Depends on your business. Most businesses strive to maintain their margins. If your business model is characterized by an inelastic demand you are fairly free to raise your prices commensurate with the increased price of materials PROVIDING all your competitors have to pay the same prices for their materials (in this case energy).

The net result is that your profits increase inasmuch as your fixed costs remain the same over small increments of increase. But watch out for the step functions in your overhead costs. An example of this is if the increase in energy cost exhausts your current supply of working capital and you have to go out into the credit marketplace for new working capital at higher interest rates.

Your customers face the same situation with the elasticity of their markets relative to demand.

Ed Weldon

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#258
In reply to #257

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/06/2011 12:08 PM

It doesn't benefit my customers to pay more for their needs any more than it benefits you or me to pay more for food.

My business model is to provide the best solution/product I can at the best price I can and still earn a profit.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#259
In reply to #256

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/06/2011 12:18 PM

it may not have a direct benefit, you could be a loser

depends on what you manufacture, where your competitors are located & how much shipping adds to your costs

increasing the cost of your electricity will probably cause you to search for way to use less electricity, you never know what you may learn along the way

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#260
In reply to #259

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/06/2011 12:53 PM

If I can save money using less electricity why wouldn't I do that now?

You might remember what happened when business saw their cost of operations go up; they laid off employees in droves (explains our 9.1% unemployment rate).

Essentially, businesses did more with less. What was the cost of that?

Despite all the anti-capitalistic rhetoric, business do not like to lay off employees. Companies have invested time and money to train people to work for them. They are valuable resources and "family".

Nothing causes managers and executives to lose more sleep than having to let people go. It's horrible to see people's lives turned upside down and have to go home to their families to explain they have no job now.

For all of us, when unemployment goes up, so do our woes.

While it may be true that every cloud has its silver lining, most of the time that silver is far outweighed by the downside.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#261
In reply to #260

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/06/2011 1:48 PM

deregulating the banks & other financial institutions, caused the panic which hobbled the economy.

rising demand & 2 wars of aggression [maybe the odd hurricane & oil spill] caused the spike in energy prices

despite all your free market rhetoric

we need to quit letting the mega corps outsource their profits, they need to pay their fair share of the up keep of the infrastructure, that makes one of the largest consumer markets in the world possible

I note that you want to complain about the impact of energy prices on your business, without going into any sort of detail, so there is no way to have any context to the larger market segment of which you are a part. who know the state of the buggy whip market...

your generalizations about the larger economy are equally vague as my own

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#263
In reply to #261

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/06/2011 2:18 PM

The mega companies account for a small percentage of the employment sector. At least directly. It depends on what you define mega to be.

52% of those employed work for companies of 500 employees or less. 66% work for firms that are 5,000 employees or less.

We have been down this road before on CR4 and the current recession cycle primary cause has its roots in government social engineering. I really don't care whether it was paved with good intentions or not.

Outsourcing is not the cause or reason for the 9.1 % unemployment rate. It's actually 16.2% according to Sunday's Associated Press release.

But what reasons drive companies to outsource? It is the cost of doing business (labor, taxes, and other costs of operation).

There is just no reason to believe that raising operation costs on business will improve the outsourcing issue any more than legislating businesses to hire more employees will.

I contend that just the opposite will happen.

I do not want to complain and I am not. I am just stating that your premiss that raising energy rates for business is good for business is deeply flawed, in my opinion.

However, if you have convincing evidence to the contrary I would be happy to join you in adding an extra check to our respective energy companies each month and look forward to that return on investment.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#272
In reply to #263

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/06/2011 10:26 PM

the lowest tax rates in decades, coupled with 30+ years of trickle down economics have brought us to this place

sorry no pity for the oil companies, profits are up, even if the margins are small [10% or more]

there is no reason to believe, more handouts for the energy companies will help

political theater by the tea party have further damaged business confidence

you would have us join the developing world , where there are no protections

CR4 ADMIN: Modified Post

Vulgar/Rude/Improper Behavior: This post was modified because it did not adhere to the behavioral policies of the site. Please review Section 14 of the CR4 Site FAQ and the CR4 Rules of Conduct.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I'm outa here
Posts: 1924
Good Answers: 196
#273
In reply to #272

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/06/2011 11:35 PM

Garthh - No point complaining. It's too late. The Koch brothers are well on their way to become founding fathers of the Heartland States of America. They just had a party over the weekend where they came up with $30 million as the foundation of their new SuperPac to support the Tea Party. Soon it will be 1870 all over again. ......Ed Weldon

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#274
In reply to #273

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/07/2011 12:27 AM

Voters in Wisconsin & Ohio disagree

the republican/tea party have done an amazing job of convincing people to vote contrary to their economic interests

the 1950's are over, never to return

the moderate majority should not continue to swallow the big lie

CR4 ADMIN: Modified Post

Vulgar/Rude/Improper Behavior: This post was modified because it did not adhere to the behavioral policies of the site. Please review Section 14 of the CR4 Site FAQ and the CR4 Rules of Conduct.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I'm outa here
Posts: 1924
Good Answers: 196
#275
In reply to #274

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/07/2011 1:25 AM

Voters in Wisconsin & Ohio disagree......... A lot of good it will do them. They will be inundated by the noise machine and their frontal lobes will become bread pudding.

the republican/tea party have done an amazing job of convincing people to vote contrary to their economic interests. ......... Electronic mind control is protected by the First Ammendment. The new HSA will have a similar first ammendment in its constitution. It will redefine "speech" as language when spoken by a bonafide Tea Party member.

the 1950's are over, never to return ............... Yes. The 1950's was the epitome of the American middle class. They will soon disappear their place to be taken by nameless human resources trained in the agebraic language and working at minimum wage in a service industry.

the moderate majority should not continue to swallow the big lie ............ They will no longer need to swallow it. The lie will be their entire being. To reject it will be the end of their meal ticket and their access to pleasure inducing chemicals and electronic entertainment.

Ed Weldon (read 1984; Orwell was prescient)

CR4 ADMIN: Modified Post

Vulgar/Rude/Improper Behavior: This post was modified because it did not adhere to the behavioral policies of the site. Please review Section 14 of the CR4 Site FAQ and the CR4 Rules of Conduct.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#277
In reply to #274

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/07/2011 7:01 AM

The Tea Party isn't even an organized party, yet they're to blame?

Are you sure it's all bad?

  1. Identify constitutionality of every new law: Require each bill to identify the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does (82.03%).
  2. Reject emissions trading: Stop the "cap and trade" administrative approach used to control pollution by providing economic incentives for achieving reductions in the emissions of pollutants. (72.20%).
  3. Demand a balanced federal budget: Begin the Constitutional amendment process to require a balanced budget with a two-thirds majority needed for any tax modification. (69.69%)
  4. Simplify the tax system: Adopt a simple and fair single-rate tax system by scrapping the internal revenue code and replacing it with one that is no longer than 4,543 words - the length of the original Constitution. (64.9%)
  5. Audit federal government agencies for constitutionality: Create a Blue Ribbon taskforce that engages in an audit of federal agencies and programs, assessing their Constitutionality, and identifying duplication, waste, ineffectiveness, and agencies and programs better left for the states or local authorities. (63.37%)
  6. Limit annual growth in federal spending: Impose a statutory cap limiting the annual growth in total federal spending to the sum of the inflation rate plus the percentage of population growth. (56.57%).
  7. Repeal the health care legislation passed on March 23, 2010: Defund, repeal and replace the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. (56.39%).
  8. Pass an 'All-of-the-Above' Energy Policy: Authorize the exploration of additional energy reserves to reduce American dependence on foreign energy sources and reduce regulatory barriers to all other forms of energy creation. (55.5%).
  9. Reduce Earmarks: Place a moratorium on all earmarks until the budget is balanced, and then require a 2/3 majority to pass any earmark. (55.47%).
  10. Reduce Taxes: Permanently

Source: Wiki

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#278
In reply to #277

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/07/2011 7:18 AM

What are the percentages after each bullet list?

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#292
In reply to #278

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/07/2011 5:40 PM

I didn't bother looking.

I think it's a list based on importance by respondents to this.

I'm not a member, but it's becoming more obvious every day that what we're doing is failing miserably. I agree with those ideas.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#282
In reply to #277

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/07/2011 8:48 AM

lets call the Tea Party what they are

Radical conservatives, republicans who wrap themselves in the constitution

intent on breaking every part of government they don't like

2,3,7,8 & 9 got the votes, do it

but wait there's more

let's use numerology [number of words in the constitution] to decide how to generate revenue [4]

1&5 are the same, what part of the constitution authorizes formation of new branches of government, that circumvents existing ones? doesn't the supreme court answer questions of constitutionality?

don't like how the courts rule form a "Blue Ribbon Commission", in other words spend money studying the "problem"...

CR4 ADMIN: Modified Post

Vulgar/Rude/Improper Behavior: This post was modified because it did not adhere to the behavioral policies of the site. Please review Section 14 of the CR4 Site FAQ and the CR4 Rules of Conduct.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 8)
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Washington USA
Posts: 566
Good Answers: 53
#297
In reply to #282

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/07/2011 6:47 PM

Garthh,

You have exposed yourself as an ideologue and in the process destroyed your credibility by taking cheap shots.

Your dishonest stereotyping of millions of patriotic Americans and use of sarcasm in an attempt to discredit them is an indication that you would compromise your ethics to silence those people that do not share your philosophy.

Your act of name calling with derogatory sexual connotations may be a projection that such an activity secretly appeals to you but would be too embarrassing for you to admit.

Register to Reply Score 2 for Off Topic
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#301
In reply to #297

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/07/2011 7:51 PM

Garthh may be sarcastic (sarcaustic?) at times and he may have a more liberal view of politics, but I think you may be acting a little harsh without due cause.

That is just his style at times.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 4)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#303
In reply to #297

Climate Change Shock

09/07/2011 11:44 PM

So you've drunk the koolaid then?

on the surface TP [did anyone think at all about marketing] should be my dream come true. A somewhat viable 3rd party, I'm an independent & vote accordingly

the whole "back to the constitution" thing is a diversion

we are following the constitution,

don't like it roll up your sleeves build a consensus, change it

interesting that the TP solution involves special friends [blueribbon commitee] making unilateral decisions...

if you don't like what I have to say, mark it off topic, unsubscribe, find another forum, the choice is yours

funny you describe me as ideologue for noticing that the tea party movement is trying subvert the constitution

I await your next personal attack

CR4 ADMIN: Modified Post

Vulgar/Rude/Improper Behavior: This post was modified because it did not adhere to the behavioral policies of the site. Please review Section 14 of the CR4 Site FAQ and the CR4 Rules of Conduct.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#311
In reply to #303

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/08/2011 7:12 AM

I think you're giving the Tea Party far too much credit for the power that you imagine them having.

They are not going to become a viable third party for a long time............if ever. They sound big and powerful, but at this point, it's just a bunch of disconnected, non-organized, individual groups, spread across the US.

Some prudent, (fiscal and regulatory), decisions out of Washington would cause them to vaporize quickly.

In the meantime, any group(s) of people that are putting pressure on our corrupt political machine to stop screwing us is a good thing in my opinion.

I'm not a member, but I sure don't resent having them around.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#312
In reply to #311

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/08/2011 7:26 AM

I second that opinion.

The Tea Party has, if nothing else, raised the awareness of the problems in Washington and our state and local politics.

It has been a vehicle to get people involved in the political arena.

I think that it is the awakening and awareness that has generated all the consternation in the Democratic party and its followers. To that end the Tea Party has become the ideal straw man for attacks.

The intensity and frequency of those attacks tells us that the Democratic party sees this political awakening as a real and significant threat and they are right!

The Tea Party is like a ghost. It represents a set of tangible ideas, but does not have any solid form. So it makes for a difficult (if not impossible) target to hit. Ironically, I think the Tea Party has more power in this form than if they were to become a legitimate third-party in themselves.

The best result than can come out of this is a significant reform of both the Democratic and the Republican parties.

However, I would contend that the Democratic party has much further to go.

America needs both parties and I think people realize that. But like an alcoholic, I think neither has hit bottom yet, so the turn around is not likely to happen for some time.

Until then we just have to get used to the smell of sewage.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#315
In reply to #311

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/08/2011 9:37 AM

to counteract the brinksmanship of the TP I'm joining the Donner Party

the "debt crisis" is an example of a small group holding a process hostage, to the detriment of our credit rating & the economy

TP could also stand for Tipping Point & not in a good way

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#316
In reply to #315

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/08/2011 10:12 AM

Why wasn't it called Brinksmanship when the Democrats were dointg this.

Under what part of the Constitution are the Democrats entitled to any and everything they want. Thats exactly the sort of thing that got us into the current mess. No checks and no balances for two straight years.

Last I heard, Republicans are the majority in the house. We had coequal brances of government, the President wasnt a King....and who appointed Harry Reid queen of the country anyway? He acts like he is.

We all know some in the the democrat party believe Obama is the Messiah. But constitutionally the office of president is not that of Emporor, King, Dictator, etc.

The Debt "crisis" is a fabrication of the Democrats....and only an issue due to complete and utter reckless spending since Obama took office that has quadrupled the national debt in a very short time.

You are right a "small group" is holding the process hostage....and that small group are the liberals. They aren't a majority in this country.

Odd that the liberals don't call it "taking a process hostage" when it was them "obstructing" it....

The process is you have to negotiate to get over 50% of the vote....so exactly when did that cease being how things were done. Perhaps since Obama took office?

When did the constitution change to allow governing by proclamation?

The true party causing problems are the democrats that are bent and determined to bankrupt the country so they can use that as an excuse to declare matial law...and throw out the constitution, Bill of rights and everything else to set up a socialist dictatorship so they can take everyones property and dole it out to the party members.

Like happened in the old USSR.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#317
In reply to #315

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/08/2011 10:15 AM

Bon App├ętit.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#319
In reply to #315

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/08/2011 10:34 AM

Thanks for clearing that up. I was under the misguided notion that our "debt crises" and subsequent lowering of our credit rating was due to our debt............and inability to get it under control.

Now I get it.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#345
In reply to #319

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/09/2011 8:38 AM

our credit rating was lowered along with the subsequent drop in the stock markets from the uncertainty over the present political processes, government securities increased in value

the lot of em should sit down shut up & get back to work

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#353
In reply to #345

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/09/2011 11:17 AM

And the fact they were so far in Debt they couldn't pay their bills and Prince Harry refused to allow a Bill passed by the House to cut spending to even see a vote had nothing to do with it?

Lets see what happens to YOUR credit score if you did that as an individual.

Its about politics all right....Obama thinks he is a King and can spend as much as he feels like spending....and the fact is he isn't.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#354
In reply to #353

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/09/2011 11:27 AM

Smoothy,

Have you noticed how I'm trying to make a point without naming names or political parties?

Maybe you should give it a shot.

There is no way we can heap our entire current mess on Obama. Doesn't work.

No more than blaming Bush does.

We yearn to place a human face on our current problems. If the past 10 years has proven anything, it's that getting rid of an individual does not get rid of the mess. Regardless of who happens to be sitting in the White House, we have got to stop compounding our mess and start cleaning it up.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 3)
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#355
In reply to #354

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/09/2011 11:34 AM

The Bush economy was doing FAR better when he left office. And the reckless spending under Obama with two years of damn the torpedos full speed ahead on seeing how much they can spend how fast before he either gets voted out or a civil war starts.

Besides.....Obama started this because he STILL blames Bush for everything he has done himself the last nearly 3 years. THe day he was sworn in....this became HIS problem....and Obama has YET to admit any responsibility for the repeated wrong choices he has made.

Bush is retired....He's isn't running a shaddow goverment, its on Obamas watch...thus its Obamas fault.

And his much advertised speech last night was nothing but a campaign speech with 34 minutes of posturing and blowviating....with NOTHING new that hasn't already been tried and failed by him.

Isn't the classic definition of insanity being..... Trying something over and over again....expecting different results?

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
3
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#356
In reply to #355

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/09/2011 11:41 AM

Let me put it this way.

This has been a great, non engineering, off topic discussion. I'd like to keep it going if we can.

Comments like the ones you're making will get the entire thread shut down. I've seen it happen many times.

Chill out!!!

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#357
In reply to #356

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/09/2011 11:43 AM

As opposed to Garthhs comments this is in response to?

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#358
In reply to #357

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/09/2011 11:58 AM

Dude, I'm not mad. I'm just saying that mission control will shut down the thread if we get out of hand.

I've personally been the driving force behind several thread closures.

I'm just sayin'

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#366
In reply to #355

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/09/2011 10:44 PM

The Bush economy was doing FAR better when he left office. And the reckless spending under Obama with two years of damn the torpedos full speed ahead on seeing how much they can spend how fast before he either gets voted out or a civil war starts.
part of the increase in debt is from 2 wars, which were off the budget, until the last couple of years...
some of your comments are inflammatory, notice Ed & Kram don't even bother to yell at me [they know it is pointless], admin won't shut the thread down unless someone starts pushing the report button

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#367
In reply to #366

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/09/2011 11:11 PM

.... its not reality, but if you find it comforting to believe it...go for it.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#370
In reply to #367

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/10/2011 12:40 AM

so the wars were free then?

wait I remember the Vice President promised the oil was going to pay for it all

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#368
In reply to #366

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/09/2011 11:12 PM

I'm yelling now!!!!

That's not fair. I just got a mini lecture from Ed the other day about my foul mouth, drinking, and raunchy sense of humor.

Ed.......................Yell at Garthh.

Ed's alright. He's like the volunteer on the neighborhood watch committee that has insomnia. Single handedly stomping out bad behavior whenever it rears it's ugly head.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I'm outa here
Posts: 1924
Good Answers: 196
#369
In reply to #368

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/10/2011 12:05 AM

Kramarat----- You're ruining my reputation. Some friend you are.

You're being watched, fella. If you're not careful she's gonna make you choke on that blue crab.

BTW, I can't yell at Garthh. Gotta be sweet to him. Elsewise I'll never get close enough to steal that old truck of his.

........EW

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#313
In reply to #303

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/08/2011 7:47 AM

THe Obama administration since BEFORE the election was subverting the Constitution...from the multitude of unelected Czars....to ACORN....to OBAMACARE, which never even had a vote.

One violation after another.

Funny since the Tea Party isn't in power...the Tea Party can't be violating the constitution...the fact you completely ignore what the Democrats actually have done to focus on and pick on the Tea Party who are against big government and the sort of things YOU are accusing them of. That doesn't reak of Independent and particularly not of a Libertarian.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I'm outa here
Posts: 1924
Good Answers: 196
#321
In reply to #313

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/08/2011 12:54 PM

They say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. Vladimir Lenin is surely smiling from his grave over the statements of our friend Smoothy. Not that I have any agreement with Lenin's objectives. But his tactics such as the continual repetition of questionable "truths" certainly worked. ........ Ed Weldon

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 336
Good Answers: 18
#322
In reply to #321

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/08/2011 1:06 PM

As Flip Wilson used to say: "A lie is as good as the truth, if enough people believe it."

Or, was he just quoting the foundational plank of the Democrat national platform? I forget which. (Not that I think the Republicans are much better.)

__________________
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you!
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#323
In reply to #321

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/08/2011 1:12 PM

There is nothing in my belief structure or life...that Lenin would smile about.

I'm neither a Democrat nor a socialist.

What would be a correct statement is John F Kennedy would be spinning in his grave if he saw the Democrat party of today.

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Washington USA
Posts: 566
Good Answers: 53
#324
In reply to #303

Re: Climate Change Shock

09/08/2011 3:41 PM

Garthh,

Perhaps you should re-read my post. I called you an ideologue for being untruthful and calling people nasty names. And you accuse me of personal attacks?

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#300
In reply to #282

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/07/2011 7:45 PM

CR4 ADMIN: Modified Post

Vulgar/Rude/Improper Behavior: This post was modified because it did not adhere to the behavioral policies of the site. Please review Section 14 of the CR4 Site FAQ and the CR4 Rules of Conduct.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 4)
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#377
In reply to #282

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/10/2011 11:57 AM

CR4 ADMIN: Deleted Post

Irrelevant This post was deleted because it is related to a deleted post and would otherwise be taken out of context.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 7)
Anonymous Poster #5
#378
In reply to #377

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/10/2011 12:09 PM

How off-topic can you get? Please see this post.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#379
In reply to #378

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/10/2011 12:19 PM

Well, Garthh can't seem to refrain from making excessively rude slurs against the Tea party. It won't go unchallenged. Personally I don't care what his orientation is....but he has zero business popping off those rude slurs.

They are not only off topic....but off base...and uncalled for.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Anonymous Poster #5
#380
In reply to #379

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/10/2011 12:26 PM

If that's your perception, why don't you two take it outside.

Or continue on.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#381
In reply to #380

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/10/2011 12:38 PM

His words.....no IMPRESSION or interpretation required or possible.....that slur is very clearly defined in meaning.....but then, at least we aren't hiding by posting ANONYMOUSLY.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Anonymous Poster #5
#383
In reply to #381

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/10/2011 12:45 PM

Anonymous? Not really. Most posters here know who I am.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Anonymous Poster #6
#384
In reply to #381

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/10/2011 1:11 PM

We are all anonymous

they are called Usernames

Register to Reply Score 2 for Off Topic
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#386
In reply to #384

Re: Sun Causes Climate Change Shock

09/10/2011 3:10 PM

So what is your REAL registered username.....you aren't being cute, why aren't you using it to post?

I could post anonymously too, but I'm adult enough like most others here to use my real registered username. Not hide behind the username of Anonymous Poster #x to make swipes at others where only site admins and moderators know who you are.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#382
In reply to #379

Tea Party Shock

09/10/2011 12:43 PM

is TP better?

You can look up what that means too, still gets the point across

do you have a point?

you feel free to toss about all manner of ad honimum attacks & slurs, am I supposed to be held to a higher standard?

you might take up the unbelievably bad choice in names with the TP leadership

oh I forgot there are no leaders, no plan, beyond vague grumblings about the constitution [breaking the government isn't a plan]

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#385
In reply to #382

Re: Tea Party Shock

09/10/2011 3:05 PM

So I finally got my point across. Didn't like It much I see, now you can see where I was coming from...so NOW can we finally put an end to that?

Thank you, now we can debate....without hurling slurs...

However with that said....TP is fine...it does not have the vulgar meaning of the term I took exception to you had been using.

Well, first off....look at the democrat leadership....Harry Ried ( unilaterally refuses a vote on any bill passed HE personally doesn't like...which is NOT in his power to do....Nancy Pelosi....well, her excesses as house leader are infamous. And Obama.....the man who thinks if you repeat a mistake enough times its somehow going to stop being a mistake.... Thats a real bunch of winners there.....and they are actually part of a real Political party.....not a movement.

And incidently.....the Tea Party....is a movement...not an actual Political party you seem to believe. And that point alone proves every comment you made about them as being inaccurate. They aren't tied to the republican party...or any party....they align with the party that best matches what they believe in....it just so happens the Republicans are the closest to that at the moment. It is possible for that to change.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#388
In reply to #385

Re: Tea Party Shock

09/10/2011 4:51 PM

Excuse my inuendo (we're hardly on topic here), but you said.....

the Tea Party....is a movement

...Yep, the world can be an ****, and I'm just passing thru. Motion passed, etc etc

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Anonymous Poster #6
#395
In reply to #385

Tea Party

09/11/2011 5:49 AM

I always use TP after a movement

extreme republicans are not conservatives

as to debate, I don't think that's possible

something about an unarmed man...

Register to Reply Score 2 for Off Topic
Anonymous Poster #7
#396
In reply to #395

Re: Tea Party

09/11/2011 11:41 AM

mm, it's the little things that count

Register to Reply Score 2 for Off Topic
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#398
In reply to #395

Re: Tea Party

09/11/2011 12:58 PM

CR4 ADMIN: Deleted Post

Vulgar/Rude/Improper Behavior: This post was deleted because it did not adhere to the behavioral policies of the site. Please review Section 14of the CR4 Site FAQ and the CR4 Rules of Conduct.avings of a Democrat.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#399
In reply to #398

Re: Tea Party

09/11/2011 9:23 PM

Feel better?

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#400
In reply to #399

Re: Tea Party

09/11/2011 9:26 PM

might as well turn the page with an homage to the party of no

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ground Zero of the Pompous and self important....Washington DC
Posts: 416
Good Answers: 8
#438
In reply to #400

Re: Tea Party

09/14/2011 8:15 PM

The Democrats are the true party of no.....But then you have to be open minded to see it. And its clear that will never happen since you are so full of hate for anyone right of the far left.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#440
In reply to #438

Re: Tea Party can't learn

09/14/2011 10:50 PM

most legislators are guilty of diversion

I think the members here can judge for themselves, the source of the hate on this thread

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#456
In reply to #438

Re: Tea Party

09/16/2011 8:10 AM

Happy?

you reported me, feeling that the use of a certain description of a misguided political movement you align yourself with is demeaning

within "the movement" there is no agreement about whether the description is demeaning

here's a different opinion

http://biggovernment.com/abreitbart/2010/04/14/im-proud-to-be-a-tea-bagger/

if your delicate sensibilities are offended, maybe you should take it up with the party movement's leadership, but wait there isn't any...

I'm sure there are plenty of places you & your little friends can pat each other on the back, CR4 isn't one of them

if you can't take it

don't dish it out

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
United States - Member - Lifelong New Yorker Popular Science - Biology - Animal Science Technical Fields - Technical Writing - Technical Writer

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 2409
Good Answers: 59
#457
In reply to #456

Re: Tea Party

09/16/2011 9:17 AM

Please, no more back-and-forth on this topic or the thread will be closed.

Remember, CR4 isn't a place to discuss the politics alone - although as they relate to the original topic they may come up. It's not acceptable to argue over stuff like this.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Engineering Fields - Transportation Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Technical Fields - Procurement - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Engineering Fields - Architectural Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - New Member Engineering Fields - Food Process Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mariposa Ca
Posts: 5804
Good Answers: 114
#458
In reply to #457

Re: Tea Party

09/16/2011 9:52 AM

wait a minute!

there is no reason to chide me for using a term [which I haven't since you asked me not to in a PM] that is common to the movement, nor is there any reason to threaten the participants of the thread

you continue to show the inability to have a coherent policy on political discussion

your administrative asides, don't add anything to the discussion

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Register to Reply Page 1 of 6: « First 1 2 3 Next > Last »
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

129CBRider (2); 34point5 (21); Ace Boeringa (3); Anonymous Hero (68); Anonymous Poster (13); Apothicus (3); arturus (1); bhankiii (1); chrisg288 (2); Dragonsfarm (3); Duckinthepond (5); Ed Weldon (48); Epke (1); evanmjones (1); facilitiesmgr (14); Garthh (38); Gavilan (3); janetkissho (1); JBTardis (22); JDMorgan (1); Just an Engineer (1); kramarat (64); Kris (5); leveles (4); lighthasmass (15); lyn (15); Mikerho (5); NotUrOrdinaryJoe (2); oldchemist (1); passingtongreen (1); PaulS (11); PWSlack (1); redfred (19); RHABE (3); RobertOz (28); Rorschach (6); russ123 (4); SavvyExacta (1); Smoothy (34); Spinco (4); SWB123 (9); tcmtech (5); thall (4); Tornado (9); TVP45 (3); Usbport (2); whezmabeer (1); WWkayaker (6)

Previous in Forum: Hotpoint Fridge Freezer - Wiring Diagram   Next in Forum: Using Cable Gland for 10mm Cu Pipe?

Advertisement