What Will You Do with Windows 7?

computer users around the world are considering how to respond.

Suicide?

Lynching?

Unless/until our IT department forces it on me, I will respond by ignoring it as steadfastly as possible.

Vista, what a dog. Now I have to carry two computers, one with the dreaded V because the IT tossers say so and one with XP to get the job done. My private computer will never be "upgraded" to Vista (and will never have Symantec installed) and when it gets killed I'll seriously consider Linux.

Vista seems to be widely considered to be a failure. In order to have a better future we must start with a failure (Vista) rather than a success (XP).

There's never a penguin around when you need one.

(FYI: the mascot of Linux is a penguin)

After purchasing my laptop last summer I was prepared for the worst with Vista being the only available operating system that was issued with the new laptop.

I though what the heck might as well get used to it.

I have since discovered after 6 months of using it that Vista is a decent operation system, if your computer is designed for it. upgrading from an XP system is an act in futility. I know that Vista has gotten a bad rap and it typically is coming from those that like tinkering with their system. Vista is very design specific and when tinkered with can give you a lot of problems. For everyday operation and use, I have found it to be a very stable and reliable system.

I am current running it on a Dell XPS 1530 laptop with a pentium core2 Duo 2.0ghz processor. I have 4 gig of ram and a 128 meg gforce 8400 video card.

I imagine I will be hammered for speaking up for Vista but I really have had no problems with it and the only issue I have had is with installing OLD software that was not designed for the Vista operating system. I am running several types of software on it, from imaging software, to cad software. I have several video game installed as well and no issues with any of them.

So will I upgrade to Windows 7? Why not? But not until I have the need to purchase a new system.

I am also using (?) vista, as it was preloaded on my new lap top.

Otherwise it is fine. Only problem is that many of my earlier programs are nor designed for vista, thus can not run.

Now options are purchase new program or forget about these programs

or bye bye to vista

"the only issue I have had is with installing OLD software that was not designed for the Vista operating system"

This is EXACTLY my complaint with Vista- I have too many legacy applications that will not function properly on Vista (in fact, it is a bit of a challenge to get them to work with XP, which is why I still have a functional Win 98 SE system). When I first looked at XP years ago, I figured my cost to upgrade would be in the neighborhood of $7000- without buying a new computer (but buying some new instrumentation because the manufacturers would not assist with drivers to facilitate a migration).

I will approach Windows 7 with the same strategy I used for evaluating Vista- I will try it out on someone else's computer (I have a lot of friends that come to me with their new computers to help them sort out the various issues, like getting on line, loading software, etc.). I fit looks like it might really give me some valuable capabilities that I do not currently have (value= there is a potential to enhance my income stream), I may give it a try with some of my legacy stuff. If I can run the applications I want to run without a significant unecessary secondary investment, I may consider migrating ONE of my computers to Windows 7. I will not give up my Win 98 SE machine, however; nor am I likely to convert all of my other computers. Meanwhile, I will continue my migration to Ubuntu, because I can still run my legacy apps on a virtual Win98 machine under Linux. Ultimately, I should be able to accomplish the same thing under a Windows operating system, but I can't wait for Microsoft to listen to what it is I really want- which is a tool that maximizes the value of my investment.

I too have a good experience with vista and my old software runs great on it only when I tell it to run as XP/ 2000/ or 98 all is well. I have tried linux and it is a step sideways not forward. I will try 7 ubetcha!

I wonder if you would be so kind as to tell us all exactly what software you are running under what OS type support on Vista.

It could help others to get software running that they have legally bought, but cannot use! Plenty of people are "hurting" after buying a Vista PC or Laptop.

Thanks in advance.

Andy, that is not right question! First of all he has to specify his hardware configuration, as if it is like it was with other MS OSes, then some combinations of hardware vendors simply don't work because of variations in frequencies on which CPU, MB and other devices or peripherals work. That actually means problem is in hardware, Bios or drivers on machines that don't work properly......... That is why each MS OS usually require new drivers for devices, graphic cards and so on, and also some people just install OS and if it seems to work, they skip installation of MB drivers and that is big mistake. Of course, that drivers also MUST be compatible to OS else OS is not able to control hardware properly.

However, usually real problems crop up after longer use of OS, when trash files start to accumulate, and when user make changes in setup that differ from factory preset one, or change hardware for one reason or another, and that hardware is not exactly OS compatible. For instance I bought PHILLIPS external HD that can work on USB or E-SATA connection. I used it with USB but it was too slow for my taste, and since it was written that E-SATA would work 6 times faster, I bought additional controller. It is hybrid and has also 2 IDE connections, just like I have on MB, and in spite of fact I don't use IDE part of new controller, now my computer >>freezes<< every now and then, specially if I use Internet..... Perhaps I would have to use new IDE controler after all, or there is problem with too little Interupt channels so too many devices share some of them, but that is old problem MS never addresed by providing enough INTs so each device could have its own and dont compete for INT with other devices. Same goes with number of devices that could be connected to one controler if it is not SCSI, as with standard two IDE controlers we can connect up to 4 drives, and for more we need to buy RAID controler, which were quite expensive when I last tried to buy one, some 10 years ago.....

So, some combinations of hardware may work perfectly on some particular OS, but since there is more different combinations that have much less probability rate for being compatible 100%, it is more likely that OS would encounter problems.

I had this problem with XP and my PIII (x2) MB, as for some reason XP refused to see some devices or to recognize them all the time, or would suddenly find bunch of new devices long after instalation of OS, or would suddenly have multiple devices depicted where just one was present, and then this device stopped working as OS did not know which one is realy there...........

In the end I got to upgrade MB Bios which were not compatible with XP, as finaly TYAN capitulated under mass requests of users of same type of MB even if previously they gave notice that support for this MB is discontinued.....

Which bring us to another topic, and this is way MB manufacturers force us to change MB to be able to use newer and >>supposedly<< beter OS.

I also dont know wether to laugh or cry when I read in description of benefits of new OS, how MS spit on its older products, calling them unreliable, unstable and misfunctioning :-((

Regards,

Marijan Pollak

Some of your points are valid, most are not.

For example RAID cards for upto 4 disk drives are really cheap, I paid only €15 for one a couple of years ago.

I just looked on ebay and found an ATA PCI card for€7,99......

You can give a lot of money out, but it is not necessary.......Mine has run 2 years with no problems....its not as fast as one costing €200, but it is still faster than a single disk drive.....

I still feel that some tips from him as to how he managed to get certain programs running might help many Vista damaged people........even if it only helps one person......what do you say to that?

As I wrote, prices were high some 10 years ago when I last tried to buy RAID, just like nowadays one could get 1Gby of RAM for 50$ where then it was costing 2000$+:-((

I would really like that You argument such remarks about validity of my statements, and perhaps it would be more constructive to concentrate on matter under discussion instead of looking where I mistyped word or two..

Also, considering that I work as programmer for nearly 35 years now, and when I was learning programming they told us how people who program over 5 years went crazy, so perhaps I just imagine things my memory is making me recall :-))

My IBM keyboard is about 25 years old and is slowly failing to type properly, leaving character untyped or typing wrong ones that are not even close to one intended to be written, so it is definitely not my fault......

I am running spellcheck after Your warning, but on big post I found merely 2-3 mistyped words, so considering that I work late at night it is not tragic.......

Yes, any tips are welcome, I agree, just what makes You think that someone who happen to have no problems with OS installed have advices to other users of same OS? Tips have just unfortunate users that have had problems but have found way to bypass them or have found what caused problems in first place in their case.......

I don't know what your state of mind is at the moment, it was not clear from your post if you are happy or pissed. By the way, I am happy.......hopefully U R 2 !!

Sadly you seem to have missed the original point that we have here someone who has managed to get some software running on Vista (a major wonder in itself!!) by using its compatibility mode. Why do you not want to hear what he has learned....better still, let him give use his experiences and let everyone else decide for themselves.....?

Sorry to say this but you also made a bad statement on RAID cards that was simply not completely true.....in fact, it gave a completely wrong impression. RAID PCI cards have been quite cheap for about 10 years or so, that is the length of time that I have been using RAID at home, the only reason for changing the cards out was to use faster and faster drives at their best speed.....it has also been on the main board on many PCs for many years as well....since 2003 or so......maybe longer.

If you are still typing on a worn out keyboard that makes errors, is not that your own fault when it writes badly and you do not run the spell checker to correct it????

New Keyboards are so cheap today, with a wireless mode even..........my Wireless keyboard cost €20 about 3 years ago, I even spilt coffee in it, dismantled it, cleaned it and put it back together and surprised myself when it worked and still works 1 year later.....

I can only say - "You seem to be saving money, no matter what it costs". = My favorite German saying by the way....

In spite of my writings, I hope that we can still converse with another in a reasonable way....or I will have to drink the potion and you know what that does to me!

Have a great day......hope you liked the smileys....

But you have been able to buy on a free market since the early 90s surely.....all the developments we talked about were in a much shorter time scale....

With regard to program running under XP, the programs I use were written for XP, but not for Vista.So I have no need for compatibility mode....

OK I will never buy Vista, but maybe I will buy Win7 in the dim and distant future, which means that the software must also run under Vista as W7 is a developed Vista!!

But I was actually thinking more of the poor people stuck with Vista today!!! Not myself.

Free market? Americans (Ebay) were forbidden to send >>High technology<< out of US, so we could buy only from smugglers, as whatever we get, even second or third hand was taxed and big custom fees were imposed here......

Surely Vista should have XP compatibility mode? If not, that is sheer robbery!

So far You MUST have Vista to install W7, which say to me it is just a patch in disguise, or this is marketing trick to sell more Vistas and actually it could be upgraded from XP? If they intentionally disabled this, that is robbery again......

I think that it is just Beta testing and they want to sell out stock of Vistas that is not selling to get rid of it else they would have to throw it in garbage, which cost money. If it is the case, whoever bought Vista has lost money........

Do You know anyway some reasons why people should switch to W7?

So far I see only ability to handle big RAM, nothing else usefull, and average user would be still long time happy with 2 Gby RAM, don't You think?

I think best policy would be for people with problems to press on MS user support and bury them under mountain of complaint untill they realize what shit they are selling!

Trying to buy from the USA was a "dead end" road. But as the PCs and parts are often made in the far east, there were alternative places to buy from.....even a car drive to Italy, Austria or Greece would have solved your problems!! Depending on exactly where you live.....

It was NOT possible, take my word for it!

As a visitor from the mid 80's , before and after the "wars" in what was once called Jugoslavia, I am surprised at what you say.....

But surely since Jan 1998 it must be far far better.....? That is 10 years......

In many ways it is worse than I ever have known, only computers are much cheaper!

Around 1998 15 Banks collapsed, including my business Bank, and several big clients perished because of this, leaving big bills unpaid to my company, and around 1990 our >>new<< government took 70% of foreign currency savings from all citizens, so I lost my and inherited money..... In yr. 2000 I invested cca 100 000 DEM into computers and 3D animation software, Internet database and so on because I had contract with TV MARKETING company, but when I billed them they refused to pay, claiming that they >>did not order it<<, so after putting them to Court and paying tax on bill that I never got paid, paying lawyer and severall experts of the court that proved I did it, it is good and I did not overinvoiced it, I got case after 5 years, but they declared insolvency and after another two years liquidated company..... I therefore lost another 200 000 Dem or 100 000 Euro, while value of my computers dropped under 5% of purchase price........

In 2004 I lost package with silver jevelery from Indonesia worth 100 000 Euro, because my traveling representatives wanted to save money by skipping insurance in spite my strictest orders to contrary, and also misdeclared value to just 1000$, so when feriboat has sunk on river and 138 passengers was lost, I lost last of my money and became indebted to AMEX for 30 000 Euro, out of which I returned about half, but still my company Bank account is frozen and I cannot earn anything, while I also have 1000 Euro mortgage loan rate to pay each month.........

I am still fighting for survival.........

Some of your loss was probably unavoidable, but a lot sounds like bad speculation.....sorry.

You appear to have got through many, many times my total savings in your life.......but my car is paid for, my house also and I owe no one any money......the sum I received when my parents died would have paid for one nice car once......eg. not a large sum.

I wish you well in your future investments.......

Yeah Vista is Robbery alright. The XP and Win 98 Virtual Machine are virtually useless. Eventually the software that I need to use to communicate with machines will become Vista comaptible, just in time for the next money grab.

Aw shucks you're welcome in advance

Anything, actually it falls to the software MFG to produce a patch enabling the software to run on an OS. Some types software fell by the wayside when XP was released because the mfg's didn't produce the patches necessary, this by the way an obscure fact many are unaware; most of these type patches have become available from running windows updates if and again if the software mfg provides. Some mfg's do provide but only on their websites with greater controls.

The main issue is the hardware as Henrik14 has indicated inpart. Compatibility issues are not as dead as many believe, it is the software used to control hardware that is the crux often as it may require a certain type processor to function. As is the case often with media equipment; audio especially. A few years ago I configured as system for audio production and included some components requiring an Intel processor be used. The bean counters relied upon advice that the Intel processor were over priced and a AMD/ASUS combo was substituted subsequently all manner of trouble was experienced by the end users from which no substantive production could be realized; sad. I prefer the stability of Intel processors and to "Gigabyte" MB & graphics cards; compatibility issues are moot and value is considerable. The SATA II or better type HD is preferable for thru put if configuration of other system components ascribe to the bit-stream width also and for this reason am very interested in solid state drives.

The answer to your and Henrik14's queries is attention to details prevention of thru-put bottlenecks, resolution issues and the correct drivers. Many have experienced exasperation due to graphic driver incompatibility; or needed patches available only from mfg sites. And most trouble were experienced prior to vista SP1 which was predictable even as unfortunate for many whom subsequently have greater computer knowledge than expected.

So the solution seems to be use of a system designed for the OS and configured with attention to probable conflicts, sad this is not available in many off the shelf distributions. Caveat Emptor!

Older software usually run in compatibility mode, even if some dont work unless run under Administrator level of use...

I was also allways using INTEL processors and if at all possible also INTEL MBs, reasoning that they as MS partner would know what OS expect and vice versa, OS would know what hardware could and could not do efficiently.........

That has cost me 6 months of ardurous checking when I bought one of first PENTIUM CPUs on 90 Mhz that had faulty numeric coprocessor giving wrong results on 4th decimal place, and I was working on astronomic calculations program......

Patches to OS usually have no direct connection to drivers, which has to be supplied by manufacturers. Manufacturers in turn want to sell their new products, so they dont update drivers coinstantly, and they have their hands full anyway repeatedly makinf new drivers for new products that has to be compatible with new OS from start else would not be sold........

New OSes come out too frequently, and are not actually >>New<< but better patched old OSes.

Interesting thing with OS W7 is that they developed it for 7-8 Years, and when it was supposed to be published they withdraw it and canceled project. Vista come out instead, and it is not new but just wearing new makeup. I was really surprised that MS has terminated project lasting so long, but from news I found they were making it in modules that finally did not prove compatible to one another, which best describe way MS work, showeling code on pile and hoping it would work.........

It seems that they have succeed to adjust interface between modules after all, but who knows what else was done wring way in this new OS, and wether it is same or they want to sell big patch for VISTA which they would else have to give for free!

That this OS is not upgradeable from XP but from VISTA only seems to indicate it IS VISTA patch only :-))

Since Vista earned bad name, it seems to me they decided to change it after it is being patched.

If MS could prove that W7 is completely new OS, I would still wait standalone version, and would not buy it before it is at least 3 years in use and 2-3 patches more mature. I still use W98 on computers that are not XP compatible, and would use XP as long as I can, also to not have to adjust my application over and over again nor buy new versions of compilers I am using or other utility programs....

That was all I was able to do in last 15 years, just to keep in step with OS changes, and that has cost me money and time I could have spent to earn it instead..

Yup, nope, yup, yup...

Mfg patches I refer to are assigned to enable use on OS not to be confused with OS patches

I assist some whom need to stabilize systems 98, XP, Vista or any between usually older 200 and 98's will be utility and never online after stabilized.

XP while heralded by many is redundant in use compared to Vista. I prefer to have pleasant experiences just using the equipment without needing to stomp fires continually. If M7 is improvement on vista with less baggage wonderful and yes since am content with vista I will wait too; best to observe fallout than fall on.

Am habitual spell check user due typing tehnique Andy is no ambivalent of the error and may serve a demerit though point is helpful for those whom English is steep as was the condition.

With specialist hardware, you do have to be careful in your choice of Chip, but I would just like to go on record that I have had, both in business and private, the opposite experience with AMD PCs, since 1999.......I admit I had no particular specialist hardware that needed intel though....

In fact I still have running and in use a Portable from 2000 and 3 PCs of varying age all with AMD processors, windows 2000 on the portable and XP on the rest.

The only Intels I have (or had) are Laptops as I am not quite so happy with the AMD Laptop chips performance wise......(they have to be good at something!)

I have to admit that it was the awful marketing tactics of Intel that started me on AMD chips, if you want further details, ask me as I don't want to bore everyone even more....

I like also the ability of the AMD chips to run hotter without problems, its like money in the bank.....

That my 2 cents worth!

Have a great day in spite of me!!

Correct and I do use and recommend AMD occasionally for data tasks. AMD did seem appropriate for gaming but the intensity of graphics and limited system stability gives one pause.

Much of what you write about AMD vs. Intel was true, Intel has assumed the mark with authority of late where heat and productivity are concerned. I'm often recommending laptops be replaced by desktops contrary to the popular marketing trends, I don't appreciate blivits. Many times when there are no small kids or pets and dust is minimal we remove the cases or build the unit onto the bottom of the table top

I have never had instability caused by any AMD products......in fact, in comparison to many friends who have generally intel PCs, mine have basically no problems at all. Most I have built myself, that might play a role of course!

I have had a few disks go down, but that is not the fault of the processor!

You're doing it right bravo!

I've experience with some AMD when stable as rock in one task but in others has conflict soup and crash/freeze etc.. I have spec'd builds for office and light media duties; power point etc with AMD with good results but laptops my stubbies don't maneuver well.

I don't believe MS7 will as burdensome or bulky as vista or XP for that matter; time will tell. Support for ubuntu lapses 2011.

To help the people struggling with vista this I recommend:

1. Buy minimum dual core processor of E5000+ series.

2. Use at least upgrade to graphics card features when purchase, 256MB DDR2, PCIe 2.0x16 SLI ready (dual link) dual DVI, HDTV, VGA. Example...GeForce 8600 GT.

3. Maximize the RAM, at least two GB but needn't more than three.

4. Utilize "Ready Boost" use about 4GB to 16GB SSD

5. Do not use OEM OS versions unless planning to upgrade soon.

6. Encounter problems with programs first suspect resolution issues then drivers.

7. Don't try fiddling around with vista like maybe you would XP this will cause problems. Don't load systems as you would with XP, vista is different; the file system is different from XP.

8. If run XP programs on vista run in compatibility mode for ease of mind.

9. If have trouble refrain from reinstalls/reformats etc. without first obtain assistance.

Hope this answers better for you and others, the windows pre-vista upgrade recommendations are minimums and I suggest not limiting yourself in this mean.

toys

I will chuck it into the garabage bin and will install Linux

Oh boy-silly me thought that the new version would be a smooth migration from XP-not Vista. I have three (3) desktops and one (1) laptop. The newest desktop unit has Vista, and it has been very disappointing to use. None of my AutoDesk software will work on it-even with the patches. It seems that neither Microsoft or AutoDesk are working with each other on this matter.

At one (1) time the Windows OS could be adapted to operate other software programmes developed for use with earlier versions of the Windows OS by choosing the version of Windows that was appropriate when that particular software was used. That is no longer true.

I have used AutoDesk products for many years, but SolidWorks is looking better all the time, as is MacIntosh. It would seem that the software giants Microsoft and AutoDesk could pull their heads from nether places and give us something that works as well as the earlier versions. Oh well, perhaps it is a young dinosaur like me that is aggravated with these matters.

Best Regards,

(Ranting) Ing. Robert Forbus

Whoa, something ain't right here.

We're running Autodesk Mechanical Desktop (2008, then 2009) and Inventor (2008, then 2009) on Vista 32 and Vista 64 with no problems. These are on both desktops and laptops.

We also have Autocad LT and Inventor LT on Vista 32 bit desktops and laptops. And I still run MD and Inventor on a XP 32 bit desktop for control purposes.

I would venture to guess (and not a major leap at all) that your issues with Autodesk software are not with MS or Autodesk but probably in your graphics system/drivers or other configuration issues.

I would suggest you jump on the Autodesk manufacturing forums for help before you jump on the Solidworks bandwagon. You'll probably have the same problems there and blame Solidworks as well. Then where will you go after wasting all that money?

Hooker

Since I once worked for AutoDesk it really does not surprise me one bit.

They seem to have the 'if it can't be shrinkwraped we are not interested' and to h#ll with every one else approach. Maybe they will learn from what is happening in the auto industry, one can only ignor the consumer for so long, they then abandon you for those who do listen.

Autodesk is still in business? who knew? You mean people still use their crap?

What will I do with windows 7? play frizbee with the disk maybe? make a christmas tree ornament with it? Use it as a signalling mirror? Use the disk as a coaster? Use it to level my chair/table?

The uses are endless!

BOHICA

Aint it time we users get organized and show to MS we want functioning OS for our money, and that our time is better spent if we dont have to adjust to continuing changes that cannot be justified and only mask fact that we are being sold just better patches of old OS?

So many times MS sold us bullshit for gold, and as application developer I must say that I had enough of problems I have with perfectly functioning applications and >>new<< OS that more likely than not dissaray GUI or skew printing of reports, even also showing them on the screen.

I simply have no time to develop new applications because I have to adjust and readjust existing applications all the time, and have to supply new versions to old clients for free, while fearing all the time what new bugs would crop up in perfectly normal use of my time and again tested applications........

Say for instance that we colectively refuse to buy new OS and demand that XP would be retained and supported, remaked internaly if necesary but keeping same interfaces for developers?

Is that not what OO programing is all about? If so, why MS dont use state of art tools and make OS that is fully OO written and fully OO suporting?

That would perhaps force MS to make better and more efficient OO compilers, too!

It is true what they answered to one reporter when he chalenged them asking how they are not ashamed selling such bad OS and other programs and applications:

>>They sel it because users want it that way, because surely if users would not want it that way, they would not buy it?<<

So, let us do exactly this: show them that we dont want their crap any more and stop buying it!

I am forced by fact that most of my clients use MS OS to produce applications that work there, else I would switch to Linux at once, or in fact to any new OS that would be really built in modern way and whose maker would guarantee that it works as described, not that I must first agree that what I buy is not >>fit for any particular purpose<< which IMHO say it is not useful for anything and would more likely misfunction than otherwise, but surely I must like it since I am buying it :-((

Well, NOT this time!

Regards,

Marijan Pollak,

IT SA/SE 1st. Class, Instructor & Team Leader

I simply have no time for new MS OS's. All of my acquisition platforms are either running on WIN2000 or OS10 with a MS shell (Parallels). now that OS10 is compatible with Intel architecture, I expect to see more manufacturers turn to writing their applications to run on OS10 in addition to MS. The more the merrier, in my opinion.

...Aint it time we users get organized and show to MS we want functioning OS for our money...

I do agree with most of your inputs referred to abundance of used(misused) hardware under particular OSes. But it seemed to be more emotional than constructive. I've read all your posts. To be honest I couldn't grasp: Do you and your team have in a back pocket else one plan B? It would be kind of you if you shared some conceptual details, unless it's a commercial secret. Maybe some innocent hints? And what are your concrete suggestions regarding Windows 7? Boycott?

Mr R. Stallman and Mr L. Torvalds could make as have started the self-sufficient mechanism of free OS developing and distributing over the world. First of them could invent GNU GPL license the latter could recreate original UNIX compatible code for OS kernel. It was a breakthrough. Since then millions of people are involved in as partakers and users.

The simple fact says for itself: Novel, Oracle, IBM, HP etc are supporting and owning some of linux-based distros and software. It seems they had come to conclusion that it's a good way to keep their main rival in fit. It makes life more interesting and I believe it makes MS products at all some better in comparison if would events turned out otherwise.

According to circulating gossips Google is developing web based OS (something like your lovely mainframe). Well, one more choice for us (customers). Hope it comes to this.

Personally, I wish you every good luck.

regards, caramba

Senor Caramba :-)),

First of all, Unix was not such brilliant OS to start from, and reason to make a clone was in fact that it was proprietary OS with high price. It was also used mostly on computers used for scientific data processing, and poorer scientific communities were not able to pay for it, even if they could have got used mainframe computers cheaply.

Next thing is that if someone start something as a hobby, more probably end result would not be as efficient as if thing would be planned, from core of OS called Kernel to last detail of UI (User Interface).

Long ago ATARI computers have had UNIX clone OS called OS9, and it was really small, but originally UNIX also did not have graphic UI.....

What I want to say is that because of lack of good plan and exactly because of multitude of people who tried to incorporate their ideas has Linux became unmanageable and many versions were developed that started branching out uncontrollably. Similar thing happened to JAVA programming language that has grown into a forest of Classes that became veritable jungle, because even those writing it did not understood basic ideas about Object Oriented programming like multiple inheritance or persistence of Object instances.

Basically, duty of OS is to fetch program user want to be executed from where it is stored for keeping in form of machine code, assign enough RAM for program or at least one program segment, copy machine code to assigned RAM and start executing it. As I mentioned before, good OS would test this assigned RAM before loading code by writing predefined sequences of bits to memory and reading them back to see if result match, which would surely indicate that RAM is functioning OK. If program has ended, RAM is joined to pool of free memory, and if that is all to be done, computer could be switched off...

But, in program execution some commands are fast and some slow, and slowest are commands that read some external media like Hard disk or write to it, but when writing is in question slowest is writing on paper, and reading is slowest when program read keyboard. When slow instruction is executed, which in reality is what some external device is doing, program is waiting to be signalled that previous command is successfully carried out to be able to continue its work. So, in waiting time no processing is going on so CPU is practically unused...... CPU and RAM were most expensive resources in computer, so to give then something to do instead of waiting, people invented multiprocessing. There not only one program was loaded in RAM and executed, but several, one by one, and execution of first started by its executor, which is part of OS that has become independent of OS and one copy attached to program it is executing. In place where this program executor was in OS, one part was inserted that has function to load first a copy of program executor in RAM, assign priority under which program would be executed and start it, so it could load program and start its execution. Each program executor get time slice according to program execution priority and number of programs that were to be executed together. After program executor get permission to start executing program, it set system timer to count time on allotted size of time slice. Once time period is over, system timer set up flag on some place in CPU, that program executor is checking after execution of each or several instructions of program. When program executor find that time slice given to it is passed, it saves all register states and return control to program coordinator, which then give control over to next program that is waiting for start or to continue execution. So it is going till last program in group has used up his time and returned control to program coordinator, which then give control to first program and so on and so on.... Special situation happen when program that is executed has to execute slow input or output instruction, end of which he would have to wait for. In such case, instead of waiting, program executor give back control to program coordinator after saving state of program, exactly like its time slice has been used up. Program execution coordinator gives control to next program executor, which first restore state of execution of its program and continues normally till end of its time period or first slow instruction. Program that executed slow instruction and have released control to program execution coordinator would continue when next time it is in order to be executed, and after restoring program state would check if previous instruction was finished successfully. If not, it would just return control to coordinator, as next time it must start from same place and this is identical to previously saved state of execution. If slow instruction is executed properly, program executor would continue with execution from next program instruction, after setting system timer for allotted time slice.

So execution of all programs continue until all programs finish, but since some programs finish sooner and some later, whenever one program is finished, reassignment of time slices must be done, in order to keep order of priority intact.

Now, OS itself is also a program, so it is assigned its own program executor, but this program executor is actually stored on permanent memory chip and loaded after computer power is switched on by Bios from MB, with exception that it could be interrupted by user if user want to choose which OS or in which mode OS would be loaded. If there is no interruption from user, then installed OS is loaded normally.

That is core of OS functions.

Now, slow instructions that transfer data into and out of RAM are actually programs by themselves, called Device Drivers.

They are different from other programs only because they work only when data they handle and commands what to do with data are passed to them, and their time slices are fixed and small, as they just transfer received data and command to device in question, where small CPU of this device execute instruction received. Such CPU could also be multiprogramming capable, but then order of execution goes from one Disk Cylinder, Track and record to next closest to it to avoid wasting of time by moving read/write heads back and forth.

Screen of Monitor, printer, keyboard, mouse CD drive, floppy drive and so on are under control of drivers, and screen is actually under control of graphic card.

If there is graphic UI, then program has instructions to open one or more Windows, and such instruction is passed via driver to graphic card, that should remember what to draw on the screen and where, in which color, with which background and so on. Windows controls are virtual, as screen cannot detect anything, instead of that position of cursor that is controlled by mouse or some other device is compared to areas where controls are drawn on screen, and if user >>click<< while tip of cursor is in area of some control like >>Button<< then this activate procedure that this button is supposed to start.

Roughly, that is what OS do, nothing else!

Whole trick is in coordinating events in time and in transfer of control to appropriate program or program part.

Is that complicated?

I dont think so. But people tend to make it complicated, specially when things are not planned and bugs in programs are allowed.

As You could understand now, since viruses are also programs, they are executed only if OS execute them, and this is simple to stop, if only programs that user has choosen are allowed to be executed.

Since users dont want viruses, logicall conclusion is that they are allowed intentionaly by OS maker, and OS maker should pay all damage done to victims of virus attacks.

But OS makers first renounce any responsibility to user, and user have to agree that product he pay for is not guaranted to work as it is >>not fit for any particular purpose<<.......

I would compare this to buying a car: would You drive car that is not safe nor You can be sure it would do what You need it to do, and which would maybe not be able to drive in particular direction or would perhaps go only slowly.........

Would You buy such a car? I bet You would not :-))

Still, we all buy MS OSes...........

Henrik14:

"First of all, Unix was not such brilliant OS to start from, and reason to make a clone was in fact that it was proprietary OS with high price. It was also used mostly on computers used for scientific data processing, and poorer scientific communities were not able to pay for it, even if they could have got used mainframe computers cheaply."

This is not accurate. My first PC ran HPUX, Hewlett Packard's version of Unix, on a Motorola 68000. It was multitasking. It was much faster than anything I have had since, in spite of the rated clock speed ("fast", to me, it how long it takes to accomplish a task, not how quickly the machine shifts bits). It was the easiest machine I have ever used for data acquisition- communications with external equipment was a breeze. It was relatively easy to write my own code in c to get the machine to do what I wanted it to do. It was much more sophisticated than any Apple, Atari, IBM or other computer available in it's day, and smaller than anything other than a Compaq (although it included a built-in dot matrix printer, which no one else had at the time). The ONLY reason I switched to a Microsoft system was for access to Excel, which is still by far the best all-around application I have ever encountered (at least through Excel 2000- later versions I am not interested in). I would love to see the industry return to the simpler roots...

HP was one of best computer makers of that time, I agree!

I also agree that this CPU was like whirlwind compared to any other processor of same era. So, IMHO, speed and ease of use were directly consequence of excellent CPU because of linear memory addressing, complex machine instructions like loops with counting that still more speeded up processing, and HP's software was bug free as far as I know.....

ATARI have had same CPU, and I have also been able to make it dance, specially since GFA BASIC had inbuilt assembler, and ability to execute blocks of machine code so I even made some speed improvements by adding compilation abilities to my machine code that have had much less checkpoints in execution.......

If You did not try ATARI, that has had 4 times more RAM than HP1000 we used in Institute >>Rudjer Boskovic<<, and in spite of HP having hardwired Fortran executor, I showed scientists that it is faster to use ATARI, specially when compared to APPLE II they wanted to purchase because it was popular in scientific community.

Friend have made me interface electronic for Magnetic Tape units for ATARI, and I was able to read tapes from IBM and HP and write in same format, so I get rid of punched cards entirely for batch processing, which was great surprise to my boss and cardpunch operators, as I cut their work in half or less and have saved expensive CPU time in externall Data Processing Center :-))

I wrote that UNIX was not so briliant since it has anoying system of making endless number of copies of files that soon clogged HD and have to be purged by hand from time to time.....

Also, one could use just command line with parameters mode to call programs, but yes, is was multitasking and handled terminals mostly without hanging, but if one user crashed system or one terminall hanged, then there was no way out but to reset whole system, then in some situation there was deadlock if two or more programs tried to access same resources under same capability rating and so on...........

Such quirks were specially anoying when scientific calculations lasting days were in progress, and scientists were not professionall programers but amaters that tended to make all posible mistakes one can imagine...... As I was processing >>unscientific<< data, they tries to blame me and my programs first for things like that, and I have to check their programs to see what have they done wrong or incomplete, so after few years they did not blame me but just asked me to check program that crashed.....

Therefore it depend much on user and programmer to have less problems with OS, and I personally had less problems than most.........

"I wrote that UNIX was not so briliant since it has anoying system of making endless number of copies of files that soon clogged HD and have to be purged by hand from time to time....."

By hand????????????? That's what Unix shell scripting is for, automating all those normally annoying system housekeeping chores that other OS's force you do manually.

Give me Unix SVR5 running on a RISC processor, c, and shell scripting and I could move the world. GUI?? Don't need no steenking GUI or oo programming systems.

BTW, nearly all the variants, A/Ux, Xenix, SCO Unix, Ultrix, HP-UX, AIX, et all, were developed off of the Bell Labs SVR1-5. The variants just basically added GUI's and some automation for sys admins and developers.

Also, note that Microsloth has yet again added a "new" shell scripting method called Powershell to address their always lagging system admin tools. It's supplanting WSH with vbscript and jscript. MS will never learn <sigh>

Hooker

Hello Henrik14,

thank you for your original greeting. I'm not a senior. In no way I'm one. My nick is originated as connotation to KDE applet "karamba".

I'm aware of linux as a none perfect gem. Of course my modest experience cannot be compared with your programming skill, but I have some imagination how malicious code works. I do not like word virus, it's seemed more PR here.

Linux has infrastructure (developing,distributing, consuming, supporting). Chaos? Maybe but it's a quite controlled one being self-sufficient as ongoing process.

Its price range is fluctuated near zero levels. It's scalable. It's not only barefooted OS but a lot of software suitable for whatever user needs. It's stable and relatively safe.That's.

As I said linux along with non mentioned MacOS is sustainable alternative to MS. Btw who said that MS products' development is not chaotic?

So excuse me, I'd rather say I have no been given an answer(s) I waited. Just figured for instance,it would be proposed to ban for any OS makers the offering on market own IDE(interface development enviromnment) as it's breaching competeting principles, unless kernel source code is achievable at least for third party developers like Borland, Watcom etc.

Thank you for your personal time you've spent to reply on my comment.

regards, caramba

amigo /if you wish ;)/

Hi,

I wrote Spanish word >>Senor<<, not >>senior<<, which is same as Italian >>Signore<< or >>Mister<< in English.........

Word >>Caramba<< in Spanish is like >>Bullshit<< in English, and is not a name.....

I was not discussing how malicious code works, I suggested how it could be precluded to be executed, which would surely save all computer users from harm........

Yes, You could have read in my other posts that MS programers just showel code on pile hoping it would work, also because nobody have planned whole thing and coordinated building it, and of course testing is left to unfortunate users........

In this regard Linux is slightly better as we know who wrote it, but it was also unplanned effort and result was chaotic growth......

Also, if You think Linux is >>barefooted<<, then think again :-))

In my other post I described what OS have to do, and actuall progran should not be more than 100 times that big, certainly in compiled form it could be less than 256 Kby total for Kernel, and not much more than Megabyte in complete form. The rest would be drivers for devices and nothing else. Of course OS cannot be usefull without programs or applications to be executed by it, but for this should also be enough just one compiler for just one good and simple to learn programming language that can do anything imaginable fast and correct..... From requirement to be able to do anything, this would be sizable compiler, but if its evolution is planned, then there would be no confusion for users, and thing learned would remain unchanged forever. Such compiler would also assist programer and preclude mistakes to be made, and it would have ability to learn by example so in time it would evolute to program generator, while all solved programming problems would be reused time and again and no duplicating of programming efforts would be necesary :-))

Both OS and programing language should be totaly Object Oriented, and so should be handling of data and saving them in databases.

With good plan, it could be made ino Worldwide effort where anybody could participate and earn money also, but only best solutios would be adopted and become standard. There would be no fear that programmers would be without job, they would just get perfect tool that would not let them make mistakes and bugs, and they would be able to nicely concentrate on services their program would offer to users, and make it perfect........ Just as the compiler, programs generated would be able to be extended without compilation by adding modules to its library of functions, and such functions would be used only when user of program would need them, which would ask for still less RAM to be executed, and would also lend itself to execution on multiple processors or multiple computers if necesary.

I have nothing againest proprietary OS, if it is nearly free and comprehensively documented for any service that it offer to any kind of user. Considering hundreds of milions users, price should be low and at most cost 15$, where 5$ would be expense of DVD, copying and packing, and 10$ profit, since then profit is measured in bilions of US $ anyway......

But price is least important, OS should do all that it is supposed to do perfectly and safely......... It must be dependable and backward compatible so older software could be executed without changes or problems.

All this could have MS done with its bilions in revenue even 20 years ago, yet they still commit such robbery of their users by selling bad software for high price.......

Regards!

Marijan Pollak, IT SA/SE 1st. Class, Instructor & Team Leader

Hendrik-

Have you ever looked at the Forth programming language? My experience with it is running it on top of raw DOS; what I like about it is raw access to the hardware components...

Hi, again,

as Spanish is at my shortlist to be learn next(oh in my far ahead foreseeable dreams) I was aware of caramba meanings. BS is abbreviation for belt scale as well as one is my specialization. One's complete BS for sure ;).

As I could realize you're on side of micro-kernel concept. You're in your right. Do you like QNX? Me personally as engineer agreed with that point. I'm using now dos like OS on AMD 40Mhz processor on soft-PLC and I find it more suitable for my needs. But for average customer I have some doubts this concept has perspectives. But I'm afraid it take too long for arguing.

I could reach also your idea of flexible compiler.

It was noted(not by me only) OO was unavoidably compromised by all developers once their projects evolved in big scale . Hope you have means to shun this doom.

Wish you'll have succeed in all your beginnings.

regards, caramba

Si, senor!

Yes, whatever I do is according to plan that get refined in details until unforeseen cannot happen. Just like body of animal or human: first skeleton to define basic functions, muscles to be able to move bones, food intake and processing organs and food transportation system (oxygen being considered kind of food also), waste products elimination systems, communication and manipulation organs, detection and information collecting organs, reproductive organs, brain for control, skin for cover, hair and fur or feathers for decoration or weather protection, then clothes, makeup.............

If one has end result in mind and know requirements, plan could be made and tested for consistency and logic of function, as one would not put eyes on the feet instead on head, nor would it be logical to have hands on backside, but the rest could be put where it would function properly and not restrict or preclude some other function. Also same variants for necessary function could be permitted (like beak instead of teeth, for instance) and some could have double functions (such as feathers for warmth and flying) and all should be optimal for environment (like wings for air or fins for water), even if with some systems different options would be possible, they would still be variants of same function (i.e. reproduction organs and reproduction protection, birds and fishes and lizards or turtles have eggs, other give birth to live offspring, some offspring should be fed by parents, other feed themselves from start, etc, etc.) Therefore, OO Clases should be grouped by their function in system of higher order and hierarchically connected by means of communication of signals and informations. Base Classes are like bones and their Methods determine what Classes do, they are muscles and tendons that put a particular bone where it should be. The rest is either energy supply, control system and protection system.

As usual, nature gives us examples how complex systems are organized, and if such system provenly work, then it is enough to copy it, but if we know its faults, we could try to leave them out if possible or supplant with something else that works somewhere else.......

But humans have special ability to generalize, extracting similarities from various systems and giving them common name, and from this we could build ideal system that would have no faults that are known. I would say that if one make new system from already provenly working parts, and those parts properly transfer their outputs to other part inputs which fit by function and nature of input expected, then such system should work guaranteedly........

What connect parts or assemblies and subassemblies are interfaces and if they match exactly then output of one part become input of part or subsystem connected to it on same place, so continuation of function is achieved. So it should go from raw inputs to final outputs that are results of system functioning.......

Best thing in computers programming is that there is no waste produced, so no waste elimination system need to exist, unless memory housekeeping or disk defragmenting is not considered to be such system.......

I also don't have a problem with Vista...like said, it is best usable with a machine designed for it. Why stick with XP? What happened to moving on with the times and trying to match up with "alien's" starndard of technology? If you have one of thoese old machines, don't try to upgrade to Vista or Windows 7...you not gonna stop complaining.

I don't agree, change does not mean improvement, and Ms is prone to be buggy and has more holes than a swiss cheese.

An Engineer should see the added value of Linux. the source code is open so a programmer knows its weaknesses and strengths. problems are addressed immediately. and it is more secure and proven to be more stable than Ms software

It is time you moved beyond your narrow mindset dude! Linux and Unix are dead and will never return. Grow up and move on.

I thought that the people using the word "dude" were ALL using Linux!? Which, by the way, will be my OS of choice by the time vista's patch, or 7, or whatever, rolls around.

By the time m7 ROLLS AROUND Linux will be a memory dude

You mean M7 is so buggy that it will take another 10 years to be released?

Linux will not go away many internet servers still(and will) use(s) linux because it is stable and doesn't gobble up resources like windows does

When does to support for Linux end? 2011.

M7 will be greater than the beta @ 745MB but will ellipse Linux characteristics.

Linux will always be supported at least until MS releases Binux.

M7 will like Vista be a heavensent for Intel needing more resources.

While Linux can be tweaked for its purpose, and linux will not go away because it free (or very cheap). Linux is constantly improved and new features are constantly added.

I know i can run linux without problems on my laptop, but if i want to run Vista or M7 i have to buy extra memory and a larger HD. Never try to get money from a Dutchman, that hurts the most

Don't discus with this person unnecessary, it seems to me he don't have white idea what Linux is, or just pretend ignorance as he want to provoke You to extol on qualities of Linux compared to MS OSes so he does not have to write so much :-))

If Linux would not be good enough people would not use it, as nobody would use something problematical even if it is free.......

Only reason I still use MS OS-es is because my clients use them also and all my tools are written for such OSes exclusively.

I never could have afforded to buy an Apple computer, else I would do it..........

But it seems that nowadays Apple also turn to Intel and would then start using MS OSes, which is downright stupid politic, but they were doing stupid things from start and kept tradition........

If they have just lower their prices, this would be world of Apple computers, as cheap apple clone ATARI has shown long ago, but this is why somebody bought factories from Jack Tramiel and extinguish ATARI computer line..........

Anybody know what happened to Mr. Tramiel after he bought his fleet of boats for catching tuna fishes?

I am sorry but English is not my mother's language, so I cannot unravel meaning from last sentence, specially >>would you not adnate rather than to lament only<<.....

What You are writting could be true only if some new and cheap OS would be made that would be so good that anyone would like it and use it.

Anyhow, idea of >>free<< OS is live as long as someone would not start selling variant edition for more money than MS OS. That I allready have seen in my country!

It is a good point you're making that MS produces a machine of which the code requires the machine to work harder than necessary possibly. Where as with Linux it is the user whom is required to hop, jump through hoops etc. to accomplish same function, exactly my point

Mister Bwire now you are confusing MS with Linux. MS stuff keeps you jumping to keep your machine running while with Linux you have to do slighty more work in the beginning but then, you do not have to do much anymore.

I Rather have to do a little more work in the beginning to get things working than spend a lot of time to keep things working like with MS OS.

(so how long have you been working for MS?)

I personaly do not use Linux (yet) so I cannot compare it with MS OSes, but my opiniom is that anything should be better than crap MS sells.

You remind me about something I read long ago, how people compare Windows and Linux:

Windows airoplane company has big shiny airoplane in front of which music band is playing and red carpet leads to golden steps for entering plane, where beautifull stuardeses are waiting for You to take You to Your seat, bring You food and drink and adjust viewer for You so You can look movies. They come every few second to ask You if You wish something, help You sit more comfortable and so on... Then with music playing You farewell airoplane take off, but just when You think journey starts in earnest, airoplane without warning crash straight into ground........

Linux airoplane company has middle sized ugly airoplane on which it is visible it was made from parts of different airoplanes, engines are too big for it and passenger compartment is of modest size, while You must climb plain wooden ladder to enter it. When You get there, pilot gives You seat, nuts and bolts and tools, so You fix seat where You like it to be and adjust for Yourself. Once You have done this, pilot anounces takeoff and You travel fast and high stably, and reach Your destination even before scheduled time safely.

But when You decribe Linux airoplane company to people, everyone ask just one incredulous question: >>You have to do WHAT with a seat?<<

Of course it was at least 10 years ago, and nowadays LINUX airoplanes look better and perhaps have also airconditioning and movies too :-))

I am unfortunate that my programming tools are made for WINDOWS only, and at least 90% of my customers use MS OS.

If it were not for this, I would switch to Linux also, and perhaps try to contribute in its building also, even if by now I guess that number of wildly grown parts has become hardly manageable, so it would be better to build new one from ground up.

It is of my heritage you refer wisely.

Binux? Is getting closer and I prefer to let the machine do the work, programmers continue creating software which anyone can use

They will soon be selling it as 'Free Laptop with every operating system'
You think I jest ?
Give it a few years...you'll all be shuffling around on the porch saying.

'Wull dang my hide if that thar Cat wasn't right all along'.

Unless you live in Scotland where you'll say.
' Da ya nae ken tha wee Cat waz reet awa ya hinnie, ya cannae push ya grannie of a bus'
If there are other nationalities which require tasteless stereotyping please contact KrisDel^TM enterprises, and ask for Ivor Bigun from the marketing dept.

Del or Kris or wha-eva

If Vista is the path, I shall resist taking that path for as long as I can.......

Nothing. Having been burned by Vista I am sticking with XP until the ZDnet blog says it's reasonable to switch. Maybe next time I'll buy a Mac.

I may not upgrade right away. For the most part, I am very happy with Vista. It solved a lot of networking problems I was having with XP. I had to shelve my soundblaster live card and some software, but managing my network more easily was worth it. I don't have a compelling reason to migrate to Win7. I may get a copy out of curiosity on one of my PC's. I have installed and used Windoze since Win 3.0 and the Vista installs I have done have been the most trouble free of all of them.

The root of computer software bloat (and that is Windows to a T) is that Software Engineering (or Programming, if you like) is a career. When your job is to write code day in and day out, you will be given the task to "improve and upgrade" the product line. Where is the end?? When was the last time you saw an upgrade to a hammer?

To answer the original question: No.

Henrik14,

Your points are well taken and very likely true. However you are failing to take into consideration that the bulk of the population are not super geniuses such as yourself. I am merely a low level genius myself, so I cannot even begin to think on your level.

However let me give you something to ponder.

If when you designed your operating system, you wanted it to be so user friendly that even a five year old could use it. Would you still be able to make your OS available to the worlds population with little training? OR, Would you instead be stuck only being able to sell it to super geniuses such as yourself, of which only a very small nth of a percentage of the worlds population can claim to be.

Microsoft markets its operating systems to the entire population of the world. From the least computer literate to the most intelligent. To design a system that is totally bug free and still make it so user friendly I imagine is quite difficult, if not nearly impossible.

Apple makes a great system but they are now migrating towards a system that is becoming more user friendly like Guess who? Microsoft. Now guess what is happening. Apple is having more bug fixes and is getting more stabs at it from virus's and hackers.

So what or whom do you target? 1%(Linux), 8%(Apple), or 91%(Windows) of the world market when it comes to an OS?

As I stated before your point are well taken and I can agree with your sentiment, I however will continue to support Microsoft until someone (maybe even you) comes up with a full proof operating system that even a 5 year old can work.

I apologize if any of the above chatter has offended in any way as that was not my intention.

Wang used to have the very BEST OS, but it only worked on Henry Wang's computers. Had it been a bit more flexible, it would have ruled the market.

Well, I have not worked on WANG, but FUJITSU FACOM 230-45 with 256 Kby of Ram was able to process 9 separate lines of data processing or 127 programs at same time. Ram was divided into Pages of 1/2 Kby (512 Bytes) each in pairs: one for program and one for data that program was handling. Before loading program in memory for execution, each Page was tested to check if RAM function properly, and if there was problem, such page was switched off by OS. As long as there was at least one pair of pages available, sistem would work, even if slowly since Magnetic Drum unit would be used to swap pages from there, and if such drum had not enough capacity (it was 512 Kby), then same would be done using swap between 20 Mby hards disc and Magnetic Drum, because drum was 100 times faster for such swapping then disk.

Whenever CE would come to maintain system (at least once in a month) it would print out numbers of shutdown memory cards, which would then be fast and easy replaced by new RAM cards.......... Must say that I remember this happened just once in 6 years, and I should know as I was System Programmer and was keeping evidence of downtime.........

From this maybe originated >>Virtuall Memory<< of MS WINDOWS, but where I could have used all Magnetic Drum and Hard Disc, on WINDOWS it cannot be larger than 3.2 Gby or 1.5 times physicall RAM installed. Also, I dont have feeling it actually work, and system work even faster if it is switched off, which MS dont reccommend......

So, for me it was best OS, even if I worked on Unix, IBM OS2, HP1000, ATARI TOS and of course PC DOS and Windows...........

Honored coleague,

First, never underestimate Yourself. If You know what You know and are not pretending to know what You dont know, so You are willing to ask questions and learn, that is as good as can be. That has supported me allways, even when everybody was telling me I am wrong, I did not change my opinion or statement and I did not doubt myself and my knowledge.

You are extoling friendliness of MS OS, and actually MS wrote Windows only after Applle has made it operationall and available to common people, and unfortunate researchers from Xerox laboratories that actually have made it first did not profit from this any, just because they were unable to sell idea in their own house.....

Now, what I wrote is that OS itself is not complicated, and the rest is just its interface with users, for making its use easy..

Now, whatever I do is made trough planing whole system, and I start with user side, because each application or program is meant to help somebody in his/her work, so program should do what user need it to do in first place, and only bad aplications require piles of books with explanations how to use it.

Process of planing application or program is started by System Analyse and making plans and testing them is called Systems Engineering. That is what I do.

On mainframes we have to make programs, as german people say >>idiotenziher<<, that is, >>safe from idiots<<. Meaning we could safely let any person use it, no matter how inteligent that person is, and surely eveybody could make mistale of typing something else than intended if we are not concentrated on what we do.... From that time it is one of rules of good programing and systems engineering that application would be as simple to use as possible, but still safe from mistakes, be they accidentall or intentionall......... Intentionall was when we planed and tested all imaginable kinds of mistakes, to be sure of program behavior in case this happen, and final test would be to let some coleague who has had no contacts with such program or application try to use it....

We did that when people that were working on computers were provenly inteligent and trained to work on them folowing procedures, but it is as good for anyone else. Yes, for me user of program is first and foremost important, and my programs are easy to use by anyone. Surely, one cannot start editing texts or writting a book untill this person know how to read and write, so beside knowing to type on keyboard, one using textprocesing program like WORD must know something about headings, footings, tables, fonts and so on...... Therefore such program should have logically organized menus and user just have to choose what he/she want to do.

What is bad with MS is that things do not work as one would expect and thing is simply falling apart whenever I try to make something more uncommon as some table with boxes and warious sized cells, cells with multiple lines and so on.......

WINDOWS OSes, as something that followed DOS OS which was very like mainframe OS from long ago, gained its big share of market for two reasons, first because Mr. Gates got contract with IBM, who was first manufacturer od PCs, that guaranteed exclusivity in supplying of OSes to IBM, and another was huge marketing mistake that APPLE made, being greedy and keeping prices way too high while letting nobody to copy their hardware. Even IBM has at start fought tooths and nails againest those who started producing clones of their PCs, so much that their PS2 series PCs were having totaly different and proprietary bus and connectors that could not be copied (called if I recall it right >>Microchannel<<) and had even speciall screws that neded speciall tool to be opened :-)) But, clones were cheaper and there were laws againest monopoly in US anyway, so IBM has had to cease harangue againest clone makers.....

At that, APPLE has had also imeasurable advantage they should have used to provoke other companies to emulate them, and this were far superior CPU from Motorola with its linear addresing space versus 16 Kby segments and very impracticall memory layout consisting of 640 Kby of base memory folowed by address space reserved for devices like Hard discs, floppies and printers, and extended memory that could not be used directly but have to be transfered to first 640 Kby from INTEL....

Many problems in DOS and WINDOWS later stem from this harebrained addressing system of INTEL, which is unfortunately still hidden deep in all INTEL processors, just like DOS were hiden there as far as W98, even if MS claimed it is not there, and it exist in XP on instalation CD and we could still go into >DOS mode<, so it is still there, all because MS and INTEL has signed backward compatibility agreement with US army, who demanded that all programs once made could be used under any future OS and on any future INTEL processor.

If I would be in charge of production in Intel, I would fast and cheaply solwed this hurdle that precluded development of better processors, as all that is needed is recompiler for any old program that used DOS and Windows on old type of processors, and it would simply exchange old machine language instructions for new ones....

That would not cost so much, and we would all have still much faster computers than we have.........

Apple have really crazy idea of switching to INTEL processors and it seems they also are on the way to give up their OS that was much mor stable than WINDOWS all the time, which would in end bury them forever since PC components are cheaper, and they were using them also long time allready but for bigger price for user. Now, they would lost all their advantages and would be no more than another PC clone manufacturer.......

Now, I hope You would agree that it is surely more easy to use good OS that is not tripping over its own feet, and the rest is question of controls (menu's, buttons etc.) being where they are expected by average user, and rest is just design and cosmetic, nothing else?

MS unfortunately is selling mostly cosmetic in its new OSes, beneath which is same old DOS and patched and repatched poor old Windows, from time to time made more complicated for us that use it profesionaly in creating new applications..... Do You know how many times MS intentionaly did not document parts of OS that programmers use as services from OS, in order to preclude others to make functionall applications as they started producing applications also? How could programmer use OS API if for some function to be carried out there is need to call 3,4 to 9 calls in sequence that is not specified at all? What use is to know each by themself, if corect sequence to call them is not known, and perhaps one or two are not documented at all? That I call foul play, and that is why I am againest MS in principle, they have done so much damage to development of computer science that any good pales in comparison! If I have to spend 90% or more time reprograming my applications so users could still use then on new computers with some new OS, then they are stealing my dayly bread, dont You think?

I could have solved many problems of AI if I were not forced to waste my time, and that is lost for all people that could be using things as universal language translator that translate perfectly texts form one language to another, which could have evolwed into simultaneous translator with voice recognition and generation, which would perfectly type any spoken sentence, and which could also be interface between computer and its user, specially someone with disability.......

I could have realized my project of creating new programing language that would be in use everywhere so programs and books about it would be everywhere, and which would evolve into program generator from program or application specification, as it would accumulate correct code for many purposes and learn to make programs, or at least help programmer to make program faster, and only thing that would matter would be ability of programmer to envision new application, and mostly programmers would not duplicate efforts as best made parts would be used and reused, and for each time such part is used to build new application, author would be paid, so people would be able to live whole life perfecting few program functions..........

I could have made program for long term weather prediction that would surely help in agriculture and industry and tourism, or inteligent database that would be able to use stored knowledge and cross reference facts one againest another, that would be able to answer questions and give explanations, even suggest solutions to problems if asked or if it made conclusion that there is problem people are not aware of..........

Unfortunately, thanks to MIcrosoft and its shabby OSes, I did not have time to do so, and if I dont stop converting programs for new OS-es, I would never be able to do so!

Sometimes I think I should have made new OS first, as then all this would not happen, but then I was head over heels in making programs for clients, so I was not thinking about it, and as one order followed another, time has passed.....

But I hope now that I am close to start of producton of my Wind and Solar power stations that are more effective and at same time cheaper to produce than other contemporary instalations and dont have their faults, then I would be able to dedicate time to projects that wait.......

I also invented financing system that would help any country government which want to build factories and get more jobs to people, that use money at least 7 to 49 times more effective, dont use company shares that could be manipulated and trough which manipulations companies could be destroyed for somebody else's gain, and which directly use money to build factories or instalations that then pay themself back and continue to bring profit for 10 years while for same money new instalations or factories are built, and so on..... If You know someone that would be interested, I could explain it all, or investor could see that it is not anything like some Ponzi scheme or other system that promise people to get rich quick, even if Investor would be guaranteed 20% of profit per year (on average, as first 3 years are necesary to acumulate profit, and then on end of third year 60% profit is paid) which some people cannot believe. But, future Members of Technology Dissemination Fund (TDF for short) would have access to their accounts in Fund at any time to monitor how their money is used and from where profit would come, and they could also withdraw money between two investments if they announce such move, provided that at least initiall 36 months has passed. Even if they withdraw all money after only 36 months, they would still receive 20% of profit every year for next 10 years, because factories and instalations built with their money would be giving that percent of their selling price of products or savings made by for instance production of electricity........ We intend to keep money first in Banks owned by government to be on safe side, at least untill we would be able to have our own Banks, if that would prove necesary to be safe......

Regards from Zagreb, the capitol of Croatia, Europe (not EU Yet)

Marijan Pollak, IT SA/SE 1st. Class, Instructor and Team Leader

Director and owner of company OBERON d.o.o. Zagreb,

Founded 1993

Please use the English/American spelling checker before posting, you yourself do not need to "KNOW" how to spell every word, who does? But it would also help others who do not have English as a first language!

By the way, it is spelt "Idiotensicher" in German.....

A good source of German >< English translation for individual words is at:-

http://dict.leo.org/ende?searchLoc=1&searchLocRelinked=1&lp=ende&search=&lp=ende

I hope this helps you in the future, have a great day.

I understand where you are coming from with all the difficulties that have always been a part of the Microsoft OS's. Most of what you say I do not find disagreeable.

I think personally however, if you really want to make a favorable operating and you have the ability to do so, why are you wasting time with fixing problems when you could be making a new solution. I would like to have the chance to examine some of the software you have designed.

I manage a Maintenance Department, I have done this for 25 years now. So as you can well imagine I am into fixing things that go wrong. I have yet to find an OS that doesn't have its problems, Mac OS, Linux, and Microsoft alike. Yes Microsoft OS likely has the most. Mac has a great OS but it still has its problems, (this was before the Intel switch) we use it here in our graphics department and it has done well but seems to have more system lockups than our PC's do. we have about 35 PC's and about 6 Mac's.

Now I know Apple had the original windows and Gates tried to make it better and or cheaper but having used Mac's before the big lawsuit, I would have to say that even though the system may have been more difficult to program for, it seemed much more user friendly.

I know little about programming as I have only taken a couple of basic programming courses, and they were specific to the job I had at the time with a simulation company. The most sophisticated of the 2 was brand new at the time and it was ADA. Showing my age a bit there. We use it to write language for aircraft and tank simulators. and it used dos as a mainframe support language. I must say that it worked fantastically but is not a user friendly language. So iI understand why you have to simplify things for ease of use. My wife would never be able to use a computer if it weren't for simplicity.

I personally don't care what is running in the background as long as it's not a virus and the PC can handle it. So be it DOS or Mac OS matters not to me. I just want simplicity for ease of use when it all comes out in the wash. I fix the problems that are to be had with incompatibilities and the wife enjoys it because of the click and go ability that windows and Mac have now developed.

You make me a system that will play any software out there for both Mac and Microsoft, and I will buy it and never go back to Windows. But it has to be so easy to use that even my wife will like it.

Oh and by the way a lot of women and men alike like the cosmetics. Apple's got em, Window's got em, Linux even has em. We are not all programmers, we don't all have the ability to see inside the OS and feel the problem. Honestly I think most don't care how it gets there, as long as it looks good and runs well, people will buy it. Its called Marketing and Microsoft does that better than the rest.

As for the problems you could have solved or the systems you could have made? Stop procrastinating and do something about it. Let the members of CR4 have a go at them when your done and then you will have the kind of testimonials that even Bill gates himself would have to look at.

Don't just dream it. Be it, Do it, then let others decide if they want it. otherwise its just posturing and I prefer to leave that to the Peacocks.

Oh and Andy's right you really do need to run spell check before posting.

Thank you for you time. and Cheers