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Guru

Join Date: Sep 2006
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Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 2:54 AM

Before joining this forum in September 2006 I had already read quite a number of threads and, as a "Guest," even responded to a couple of them. The place seemed friendly enough. Eventually a number of members encouraged me to join and, as there seemed to be plenty of smart people on hand to make it attractive, I did. Things sure have changed.

Boy, have they changed.

After a hiatus a nearly five months I logged in to this forum earlier this week - mostly to check my inbox and a couple of subscribed threads - and then I took a look around.

What I saw was appalling: A visitor was told by several long-time members that this forum assumes Guests to be trolls and consequently does not welcome them here. Guest was then immediately subjected to vulgar, degrading invective I've rarely seen even on unmoderated forums. One long-time member even told Guest to go "masturbate himself silly."

Guest's crime? Suggesting that certain, generally-accepted, closely-held beliefs are simply not true. That's all.

Guest was very articulate, presented a good case and seemed to be very well informed. At no time did the Guest stoop to the level of his attackers and counter in kind. Yet Guest was basically burned at the stake for having a different, unorthodox point of view. Wow.

That we tolerate this treatment of visitors is a disgrace to you, to me, to this forum and to the company that hosts this forum.

Had I seen this kind of crap back in 2006 you can be ure I wouldn't be here now. If this is the direction the tone of CR4 is going - and it seems to be - if this treatment of visitors continues to be tolerated here, I want out. Now. I don't want to be associated with this and I doubt if you do either.

-e

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#1

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 4:09 AM

Having been castigated for being sarcastic with some guest posts (you know the sort that are three words which form neither a statement or a question, 'Steel girder weight', that sort of thing) I hope it wasn't me.
So go on name names you big chicken so that those responsible can feel the breath of shame upon them.
I'm only writing this because the thread has got 5 stars yet no replies.
BTW there is a 'report' button, I've both used it and had my posts 'dissappeared'

Let he has not sinned fast the first stone.... (I'm sure you can all finish this old joke yourselves)

For the record, I agree we should be civil, if we don't like a thread, just unsubscribe, I do so when it gets too political/religious/personal.
Del

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 6:03 AM

"... I agree we should be civil, if we don't like a thread, just unsubscribe,..."

I agree too.

Meanwhile, Europium's post is well understood and beckons all those who tend to hide under the cover of anonymity of the internet to pick on innocent contributors, especially when they have contrary openions, to have a change of gear by being more matured henceforth.

Cheers,

ethobil

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#79
In reply to #1

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 8:05 PM

"...castigated..."

I thought the term as it applies to cats is 'neutered.'

My bad.

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#83
In reply to #79

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/30/2009 12:54 AM

"I thought the term as it applies to cats is 'neutered."

No that would be "catstigated".

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#2

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 5:43 AM

Quite.

There is a mechanism to deal with it, though. It's labelled "Report!" and it looks like a grey pushbutton.

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#3

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 5:49 AM

Hello EP, Welcome back.

There are 2 kind of guest one who are not member of CR4, they come just ask a question and go. most of the time they even don't bother to come ,see and write back.most of the time there language is not good and there questions are incomplete too. but thats what they know and they should not be blamed for it.

But there are another kind of guest. Who are regular member and they just log-off when ever they find an opportunity to lashes out other members. I am sorry to disagree but I personally dislike this kind of guests,

Agreeing and disagreeing is individuals right but. I can not hide my face whenever I disagree with someone.

I would like to conclude my words.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 6:20 AM

Hello rakesh,

We've all had occassions to disagree with or even dislike certain views of other people but the bottom line is, conveying your views or feelings without being vulgarish or arrongant.

Cheers,

ethobil

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#6

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 6:52 AM

I've never understood why we're allowed to post as Guests. It's not for anonymity's sake, because we can just as easily register with, say, a Gmail e-mail address that has no connection to us personally.

While the CR4 registration process is a very easy hoop to jump through, it probably does serve as a slight deterrent to those who stumble onto the site and make rude comments or post idiotic (as in homework, for example) questions. Frankly, if the system asks nothing of Guests then Guests aren't going to respect the system. And that just leads to the frustration of the registered users - leading in turn to rude responses from the registered members.

And yes...I'm aware I'm calling the kettle black.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 7:27 AM

And what's in a username anyway? Just because someone gives the location as Dodman's Lane level crossing, doesn't mean the Dodman's Lane actually exists. Take Etherville, for example. Google Maps doesn't know anything about it.

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#23
In reply to #7

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 1:07 AM

PWSlack writes: "And what's in a username anyway?"

Good question. In mine there are five letters: T--r--o--l--l.

Amazingly, just ten minutes ago it was G--u--e--s--t (also five letters).

So what am I, now that I've an Official CR4 Username? A benign visitor or Scourge of the Message Boards?

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#25
In reply to #23

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 2:59 AM

I thing you have chosen your Avatar fate may the dark lord protect you with his dark

power (and Darth Vader)

only why he is 1000 I don't know he is suppossed to be the one and only, it is we that multiply in thousands .

Welcome and have a stroll in the asylum.

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#63
In reply to #25

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 5:55 AM

Simple. There were 999 impostors who used my name before me on various forums and so forth, so I had to put in the 1,000 just to use my own name. Of course I have hunted down and eliminated the 999 impostors; nonetheless, I still cannot reclaim my own name .

Sheesh! What is this galaxy coming to when a guy can't even use his own name?

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#64
In reply to #63

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 11:06 AM

For some reason I was under the impression you were DVader8, base 10. Thanks for clarifying that.

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#65
In reply to #64

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 11:21 AM

I assume that's meant to be read as "DVader-eight, base two" (?)

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#66
In reply to #65

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 11:35 AM

More in the sense of 10002 = 810 .

Just you watch: DVader1000 will surface as SmartAss1000 and claim that the numerals are actually in hexadecimal. Worse, Babylon60.

< JustTeasing1000, Mr. Vader! >

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#28
In reply to #23

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 6:17 AM

I'll wait and see!!!

But the name is great!! Anyone calling you a "Troll" is just telling the truth!!!!

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#27
In reply to #6

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 6:14 AM

Good post. But no point in giving a GA!!!

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#8

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 9:20 AM

Europium,

When you come across a thread with offensive content, just choose the Report button to let CR4 Admin know that there's a problem. We moderators can't be in all places at all times, and a fair amount of the most "vulgar, degrading invective" occurs during the night (well, at least it's "night" for us).

Finally, please consider that the opinions of "several long-time members" are not necessarily the policy of CR4. Guests are welcome here.

Moose

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#13
In reply to #8

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 2:03 PM

Moose writes: "Finally, please consider that the opinions of "several long-time members" are not necessarily the policy of CR4. Guests are welcome here."

You know that and I know that, but would someone who is merely passing through know that? I seriously doubt it.

That thread was probably Guest's first impression of this forum, and quite probably his last one, too. First impressions are the lasting ones. Had I been greeted that way I wouldn't have stuck around for one lousy microsecond, much less query CR4's policies concerning anything.

I joined CR4 because I liked the people. It never occurred to me to check this forum's official policies to see whether guests were welcome or not. Why? because I didn't have to. I wasn't conversing with policies, but with people. As far as I was concerned, they were CR4. I suspect Guest probably sees it that way, too.

-e

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 2:49 PM

Yes, yup, and ayup! I agree with what you've said here, europium. And you're spot-on about the Guest never seeing the "CR4 Rules" in the first place.

So what's the solution, in your opinion? Does the site need more vigilant moderation - of both Members and Guests? Not "Big Brother" stuff, mind you, but more attention given to making this place a welcoming one for newcomers?

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#29
In reply to #16

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 7:25 AM

Personally, I'm amazed at the high level of decorum of the members here, as well as the guests. A credit to the "broken window" theory. Considering of course that this sits on the www with many other cesspools nearby at the click of a mouse. The problem with freedom, is that occasionally it gets ugly when a baby in a big body comes along. All I ask is that the staff deal with problems as they come along, and I think that they are doing a fine job here. Of course, society in general has been in decline since 2006 (and before) and the population of babies in big bodies keeps getting larger.

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 7:31 AM

society in general has been in decline since 2006 (and before)

Was there a defining event in 06?

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 7:46 AM

Europium's point of reference (till now, presumably)

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#33
In reply to #31

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 8:04 AM

I thought the 2 of you shared at least 1 point of reference [Texas]

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#56
In reply to #30

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 6:29 PM

Garth, You beat me to the punch on this reply. I also think some of the rude behavior seen here is a sign of our times. Probably similar to what our parents thought of our generation. Needless to say we live in an evolving world where the acceptance of certain behaviors change regularly. Is it unfortunate? Some of use will say Yes, Other will say it is perfectly acceptable and stop being so sensitive.

I for one do not like degrading and belittling others inpublic. While I am by no means a saint and can swear like a sailor at the drop of a hat, no offense to you navy types, public forums should maintain a bit of civility.

Should Guest be removed as an option, probably not. I would like to know how many GAs Guest has received.

Bob

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#32
In reply to #29

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 7:48 AM

Society is apparently in continuous decline; nevertheless, it seems to get no worse. Is this something like the red shift?

BTW, I take it you meant 2006 BE (before evolution)? and the click of a moose?

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#100
In reply to #29

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/30/2009 6:30 PM

Why did you pick 2006 as a break point in your last sentence?

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#101
In reply to #100

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/30/2009 6:57 PM

See #31 - & read the OP to refresh your memory .

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#46
In reply to #16

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 2:15 PM

I can appreciate the guest participation as i too have gotten some more than adequate advice from guests. (I suspect they were CR4 members incognito)

I would suggest however that using a simple ip tracer and logger you could limit the number of posts or replys a guest could have and then required them to become members to post any additional comments. Say a limit of 5 then register.

Just my opinion. Let the beatings begin. <wimpers> be gentle....

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#47
In reply to #46

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 2:22 PM

Sadly () I must agree with you completely!!

(Will you please stop posting such good posts, there is nothing to pull apart and to be nasty about!!!

GA from me.

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#54
In reply to #47

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 5:12 PM

Why thank you again Andy.

I like this place and sometimes the riffraff (guests) get a bit long in the tooth or just downright mean. (Of course so can some of us members) Push the right button and I'm off. At least I am not afraid to show my face.

That being said. I am a believer in there being no ignorant questions, as learning is a good thing. Even the occasional (and dreaded) perpetual motion and free energy questions don't really bother me. At some point someone will have a reasonable reason why it won't work or turn in a different direction and rethink their own hypothesis.

The point I am trying to make is don't be afraid to be a member and ask your questions no matter how embarrassing they may be. It does not show that you are stupid it shows that you are willing to admit when you don't know something and are willing to ask for help. That to me is a sign of true intelligence.

If you want to know who I am look at my profile, it's all there.

Jeff

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#48
In reply to #46

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 2:48 PM

"I would suggest however that using a simple ip tracer ..."

I've thought about suggesting the idea of associating IP addresses with guests and enumerate these associations as Guest 1, Guest 2, etc., to distinguish one Guest from another. This approach may not work over the life of the thread because, for many accounts, IP addresses are dynamically assigned each time the user's modem is booted.

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#52
In reply to #48

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 3:59 PM

I'm not all that fond of guests starting threads, the question has to be extraordinarily interesting for me to bother even clicking on the daily digest link...

I tolerate, but generaly ignore guest replies.

I find it annoying when there are multiple guests who have nothing to contribute except background noise to the discussion...

Members who post as guests, should spend a few minutes & create a jackass persona [I know that's no way to talk about Del & Kris] to ask those really stupid questions:

I running my car on water, how can I get funding to start a company?

Which way is up show your work?

I r so smrt help me research my thesis?

I have a Cast Iron bath tub that I want to get rid of. It would be difficult to carry out in one piece, so I intend to break it into smaller pieces in-situ.

The accepted method seems to be applying a sledge-hammer. Suitable safety precautions need to be taken ( Flying bits of enamel/ razor sharp steel edges etc). The noise would also be considerable. One method I am considering is to hinge two bars of steel at a shallow angle, fit them across the span of the bath, then use a jack to bear down on the hinge. Hopefully the leverage may be enough to induce cracking.

Does anyone have thoughts about the viability of this, or other methods of smashing a bath up ?

Oh wait, we're still talking about it!

Good to have you backE

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#109
In reply to #52

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 7:30 AM

no,no,No,NONONONONONONO! Don't get us started on that bathtub again,please.

Hold me, I'm afraid!

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#114
In reply to #109

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 9:57 AM

"I have a broken cast iron bathtub, and I'm looking for help on how to put it back together. Is there anyone here that can help?"

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#115
In reply to #114

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 10:37 AM

Oh, now that's just wrong on so many levels!

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#117
In reply to #115

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 11:20 AM

Oops, sorry, that's a berth Mwahh

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#122
In reply to #115

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 12:26 PM

If you guys would expend all this energy on bath breaking [+ assorted tomfoolery], We'd get to 10k in no time

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#153
In reply to #122

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 4:16 PM

TeHee!

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#120
In reply to #114

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 12:18 PM

Ask Kris "Squirrel"......

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#124
In reply to #114

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 12:57 PM

So, does Kris send you his hand-me-downs? Those CODs must be a real bitch!

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#137
In reply to #52

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 2:23 PM

"I'm not all that fond of guests starting threads, the question has to be extraordinarily interesting for me to bother even clicking on the daily digest link..."

The question may, however, be extraordinarily interesting from the guest's point of view...

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#139
In reply to #137

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 2:28 PM

and if it was so important for them to interact with CR4, they should register, don't you think?

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#141
In reply to #139

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 2:48 PM

when you do register people claim your still anonymously and a hypocrite.

But when you register, you are one with one personality and can be addressed so.

when your a guest, you have 1,000's of personalities (which members sometimes hide behind)

which personality are you dealing with?

With that said, There should be guests, who are browsing and posts legitimate questions, answers and interaction, and that last word...sometimes is more that can be handle by some.

oh look....are we still on-topic here?....yah we are.

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#142
In reply to #139

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 2:48 PM

These ar exactly the issues I have with guests being granted full access to the forums.

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#144
In reply to #142

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 3:04 PM

What type of limitations would you suggest?

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#148
In reply to #144

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 3:44 PM

The same limitations I have always stood behind. Every time we have one of these discussions it turns into a guest issue. guests are making post, how are we treating guests, how are guests behaving, how are our hidden members treating each other under the guise of guests.

It seem to me, even though I am not totally opposed to guests, that it is exactly the problem that is at the base of all the issues posted in this particular thread. I have mentioned in this thread as well as other breaching this subject that guests should be tracked based either on their computers digital signature of their IP address or even their ISP. Limit the posts to 5 maximum and then require them to post as a member from that point on.

If you are a member have some guts to at least speak openly and not hide behind the whole guest thing. I have one login for CR4 I have one personality. I am not afraid to show my ignorance of a subject and occasionally I go off half cocked when I am riled. I still login to express my point of view and do not hide behind the guest persona.

Those that do are nothing more than cowards in my opinion. (insults are intended)

I would never let the personality of another member or even a guest run me off as was the original posters issue. This is just another reason why guest posting is such an issue. If our regular members were only allowed to post as a guest on a limited basis then they to would have to either buck up and be real human beings or go away.

I suspect the guest he had issues with getting hammered could very well have been another member in disguise. Call me a jerk if you like ban me if you like but I will not be silent about something that appears to be the root problem of every blog, post, forum, and opinion. That issue being the guest post.

Perhaps this is a bit more clear or maybe it give the appearance of a madman. I will remain a member as long as allowed but I will always be me no matter what. I like this place and am glad to be a part of it but someone needs to really focus on the root cause and not so much on the effect.

Let the beating and whining begin. Please feel free to hide behind the guest persona if your afraid of biting comments back in your direction.

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#152
In reply to #148

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 4:15 PM

The same limitations I have always stood behind. Every time we have one of these discussions it turns into a guest issue. guests are making post, how are we treating guests, how are guests behaving, how are our hidden members treating each other under the guise of guests.

There is one thing I notice that is interesting, when a debate gets heated up, and exchanges begin. I look on "Who's online" Those heated topics are reviewed heavily.

Is that good or bad?

phoenix911

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#155
In reply to #152

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 4:31 PM

Just makes ya wonder whos afraid of tipping the boat lol

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#156
In reply to #155

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 4:35 PM

sit down.........

well ok, stand, because sometimes it does get interesting.

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#157
In reply to #156

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 5:01 PM

That it definately does. I am just waiting for the comments that are about to be directed at me be cause I am ready willing and more than able to respond.

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#159
In reply to #157

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 5:19 PM

lets see.....where my poking stick...whoa that ain't it.

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#160
In reply to #159

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 5:24 PM

OWWWWW That was my EYYYYYYEEE!!!!

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#149
In reply to #139

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 3:45 PM

My decision to join CR4 was based largely on the favorable nature and quality of the responses I received. For me it was a positive experience and so I shed my Guest persona and became the rarest of the rare-earth elements you see today.

Btw, the element Europium is highly reactive but soft as butter (sadly, I couldn't find an element that was also humble).

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#145
In reply to #137

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 3:14 PM

"I'm not all that fond of guests starting threads, the question has to be extraordinarily interesting for me to bother even clicking on the daily digest link..." - clearly I am missing something here? What exactly is wrong with guests posting? I have read a fair amount of really, well how can I put it, daft questions posted by registered members and I am sure that some people think that I have also posted some daft questions. I have also seen a fair amount of daft posts by Guests aswell. These posts are, in my opinion, daft but that is just my opinion which does not mean much in the big scheme of things.

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#154
In reply to #145

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 4:29 PM

The basic problem with guest starting threads is you can never tell if they are ever going to come back & read the replies or clarify their question. Of course the same can be said for some members....

The thread I linked to earlier, at least the guy did register & I occasionaly get a glimmer of hope that he may somehow have a better understanding of what he is attempting to undertake. I really want to tell him he's a hobbit, which is a term I use for those of the green persausion, who live in a special place where reality doesn't apply & wishin it were so makes it so...

I try to forgive people who feel they are the center of the universe [ ego that SB speaks of]. There is this tendency to reinvent the wheel or see innovation where none exists. We all like to feel like we are unique in our abilities. Being one in a million, still means there are 6000 or so similar individuals in the world.

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#55
In reply to #48

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 5:19 PM

Well a computers digital signature is not changeable. Other sites do this I am sure it is possible. I was blocked from POGO once for unsportsman like conduct and could not get back in even with a new name. so I know it can be done.

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#50
In reply to #16

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 3:12 PM

"So what's the solution, in your opinion? Does the site need more vigilant moderation - of both Members and Guests? Not "Big Brother" stuff, mind you, but more attention given to making this place a welcoming one for newcomers?"

Far more effective than vigilant moderation, I think, would be for us to better police this forum ourselves. Peer pressure can be amazingly effective! There will always be schmuks, of course (I've been one more times than I care to admit), but for these folk we collectively raise the stakes until they either endeavor to comport themselves publicwise, or leave. Those who won't do either should be excised by the moderators. My opinion.

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#21
In reply to #13

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 10:01 PM

There is another type of Guest posting. That is where the guest is a member, but wishes to raise a question anonymously because of being unsure whether the question is trivial in nature. In this case the member doesn't wish other members to think of them as asking trivial questions. I must confess that I have done this on occasion in the past.

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#40
In reply to #21

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 10:48 AM

And sometimes, I forget to login before I submit, thus being "Guest" instead of myself.

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#164
In reply to #8

Re: Guests as Trolls

08/01/2009 5:22 AM

...fair amount of the most "vulgar, degrading invective"

Uh, you wouldn't want to start a thread of these by any chance, would you?

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#9

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 9:42 AM

I can not begin to understand the turmoil you have been going through to see such disrespect on an otherwise respectful and trustworthy site. I have seen what you speak of. There is no reason for this unacceptable behavior. Guests are not worse than registered users merely due to the fact that they haven't made a fake name and attached a valid email address.

I have seen the some of the best and some of the worst guests. Guests that come on and make rude comments are the ones that give 'guest' a bad name. I have no remorse for the comments they receive back. But there have been several intelligent responses I have seen from the 'guest' name. I treat them with as much respect as I would any other user.

Just like guests, there are users that make petty comments and snide remarks that are just as unacceptable as if they were from a guest. On the upside, these comments are few and far in between as compared to comments that are good and constructive.

I hope for CR4's sake that you don't leave, it will be one less person on the side of intelligence. You have contributed a great deal and positively. I hope also that if you continue to stay that you add your pair of eyes to the cause and report any horrible comments you see;every extra person looking out for the good of the site counts. Of course, that goes for anyone that roams CR4.

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#10

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 11:01 AM

For some fresh evidence that "yes, CR4 is a moderated site", please note that the following discussions were closed this morning.

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/40997

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/40943

Both questioners received answers despite some some sidebar conversations that were, to put it charitably, less than helpful.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 12:02 PM

Sorry Moose, could you point out out all those posts (out of the 56 or so in the thread) that have personal insults in them in 40943 ? I could only see one mildly nasty post, which all the other contributors treated with suitable contempt and simply ignored. This was a nice friendly (if rather frivolous) thread.

I've scanned through 40997, and apart from a 6 or 8 post exchange between a Guest and phoenix911, there are no other insults...again this doesn't consistute "throughout" IMHO. Couldn't just the offending posts have been removed?

BTW: I like the fact you're posting why the thread has been closed.

And I do appreciate the good work the CR4 team does, I'm just asking about these two particular decisions as I don't understand them.

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#14
In reply to #11

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 2:39 PM

Hi English Rose,

I'm able to remove the offending comments from 40943 with ease, so I've done so and reopened that thread. The original poster (a Guest) even apologized for his or her original remark, which had been marked off-topic anyway. So, I'm satisfied that the Guest understands the rules of the road - even if the CR4 site policy remains unread.

As for 40997, I'm not prepared to spend the rest of my afternoon and/or evening de-threading that thread and then watching for the return of the Guest who tangled with phoenix911. For me, the most important part is that the questioner (agua_doc) had his questioned answered.

Moose

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#36
In reply to #14

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 9:11 AM

Hi Moose,

I wanted to say thanks for yanking the thread (mine) after the guest and Phoenix911 got into it. Also, thanks to those who gave me the information I needed on the Satellite Imaging for Africa. I am following up on each of the pieces of information posted and most of it appears useful. Thanks.

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#67
In reply to #14

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 1:56 PM

Hi Moose,

Thanks for replying and explaining. I know it's a fine line you walk!

Oooh! I've just remembered the feature of the old site where regular contributors were asked to check moderate! Eee, lad that takes me back, it was all fields round here back then!

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 12:25 PM

Hi, Moose,

I agree with the moderation applied to the first thread you linked, but I just read through the "asparagus" thread, and feel you've overreacted. All I got from it were a few (possibly) helpful suggestions, and a lot of good-natured banter. Maybe there was an underlying "nasty" aspect that I didn't see?

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#15
In reply to #12

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 2:42 PM

Hi JohnDG,

I'm not sure if you've seen my response to English Rose or not, but it was easy enough for me to cleanup and then reopen the asparagus thread. There was a "nasty" aspect to one of the comments there, but I won't extend its tawdry but short-lived life by repeating it here.

Moose

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#18
In reply to #15

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 7:33 PM

Thanks, Moose.

I didn't record the original, but I think I remember the gist of the comment(s) - looked to me like someone saying "BUM" when they should've known better.

Never mind.

Europium, glad to see you back. I hope you can see your way to suffering some of the crap and hang around, please - I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates your input.

Best regards to all,

John.

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#82
In reply to #15

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 10:31 PM

Yo Moose........why not use the idiot equation...........type in 'delete' for any word that uses derogatory synonyms eg (Felicity, my wife, prevents me from saying further) and list the offender. If alliteration is the cause then sublimation is the cure...no? If not then to hell with the offender......temporary banishment works if only as a form of humiliation.....just ask any Brit who've bin booted out've their favourite pub.........certain members come to mind...but I drift.....

I would list the banished. Admonishments also. Might start a whole new argument thread.

On the other hand, what would the advertizers think.........

If I wuz one ..I'ds get one helluva kick out've what I read on this groove........(darn good groove, incidentally)

good god.........I have to remind myself itz the internet

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#17
In reply to #12

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 5:05 PM

I saw the comment before it was removed. It was unnecessary, rude and cruel. It was only one or two comments that did this, so after Moose closed it, he probably realized it wasn't a significant banter like in the first thread and just deleted the comments and reopened it. It wasn't a reoccurring problem like the first thread.

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#19

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 8:27 PM

Dear Europium,

First, it is nice to see you back.

I really need your input on the Jorrie Balloon Model because we have had arguments in the past.

I am a fighter.

I get to fight fair in this Forum.

Sometimes I lose, and sometimes I win.

It is all above the neck here really, though you might not really want to piss Del the cat off too much. Second and third, it is nice to see you back.

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#24
In reply to #19

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 2:52 AM

Was it you ?

It looks your Avatar you have been expleting exploding again after some period of calm.

Only Eu can tell (since I have not seen the post that he mentions)

BTW: what is the post he is mentioning ? Must be an interesing one.

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#20

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/27/2009 8:44 PM

The WWW is a big place. Trolls and Goblins and Banshees are everywhere you go

Have had no need to press the "report" button on anything yet (touch wood) and would have no problem doing so, so mods can determine what is suitable content to be on their website.

The "guest" issue raised is a non-issue for me and an important assett to rope in newbies.

I would never let a bad apple on a tree stop me from trying another apple on that same tree...some people are different and may not return. That's what makes the WWW a wonderful place, being able to freely choose.

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#22

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 12:18 AM

Am I missing something here? I spend a great deal of time rummaging through CR4 threads, and I have to say, compared to many other sites I have visited, the percentage of really offensive posts is quite minuscule on CR4, and easily ignored. I have never been so offended that I considered hitting the report button- am I too tolerant? The occasional rude or off-color or sexist or other offensive comments say more about the poor antisocial slobs emitting them, than they indicate the quality of CR4. CR4 is by far the friendliest, most useful site I have ever found...

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#26
In reply to #22

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 5:10 AM

cwarner7 11,

I agree with you 100%.

GA

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#42
In reply to #22

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 11:52 AM

I have found it best to abide by 2 rules concerning negative posts:

1) Do not feed the trolls (by responding to them) and

2) The only thing more futile than arguing with a troll is thinking you can win the argument.

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#34

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 8:09 AM

Europium has point I will request all of us to be little bit more decent in replying to our Honourable Guests whoever they are and whatever they are. In India we are supposed treat our Guests as Gods..

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#43
In reply to #34

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 12:16 PM

"In India we are supposed treat our Guests as Gods."

We were all Guests at one time. Does this mean, then (in India, at least), that we've fallen from grace? That once we acquired our very own CR4 usernames, suresh_sharma and Troll are now ...

demigods?

Cut-rate demons?

<aghast> mortals?

.

I'm moving to Pakistan.

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#59
In reply to #43

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 12:30 AM

It is all like Girlfriend vs Wife .

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#134
In reply to #59

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 2:13 PM

"It is all like Girlfriend vs Wife!"

Best to keep them separated...

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#147
In reply to #134

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/31/2009 3:37 PM

...too right - If mine ever met up they'd figure I was actually on CR4 !

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#61
In reply to #43

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 1:58 AM

Hi Troll,

I dont know your location but about my name "Suresh" it means Sur+esh = Head+of Gods and "Sharma" = Brahmin (Priest) that is my caste. So I am not demon. I dont know about you..

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#35

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 8:56 AM

I am in many forums and have thoroughly enjoyed being a part of CR4. I have lost my temper at time with others on this forum but they have always been with the registered members. (Andy and I had a nice tiff a long while ago) I still respect them for their knowledge and also enjoy the playful banter at times.

Although I feel that registered members should be the posters on this site I have no issue with having guests. On a limited time basis. I feel like in the past when I have seen a guest being unruly that I may have chastised them but have rarely (if ever) gotten into a full blown argument with them. I personally feel like its a waste of time.

I understand europium been a bit miffed at some of the rudeness that has gone on in some posts but generally I would just un-subscribe from them. Personally I think its like the TV. If you don't like whats on turn the channel.

I mean no disrespect to anyone but do we really have to mollycoddle someone else around here?

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#38
In reply to #35

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 10:41 AM

...and I still enjoy seeing you (and all "named") persons post here!!!!We can agree to disagree......

I have to admit that I am not a fan of allowing guests to post.......I bow to the majority of course if thats what they want.....then OK.....

I must also admit to getting some "perverse" pleasure when two guests start dissagreeing with each other, its like someone with a split personality, arguing with himself!!!!

That sort of makes up for having them posting here in the first place..........

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 10:45 AM

I must also admit to getting some "perverse" pleasure when two guests start dissagreeing with each other, its like someone with a split personality, arguing with himself!!!!

I have to agree with you on this one.

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#53
In reply to #35

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 3:59 PM

I don't think that having moderators deleting rude comments is really 'mollycoddling' anyone. It just comes down to being respectful and courteous, and not resorting to kindergarten tactics of name-calling and ego bashing. A well thought-out argument does not need 'dummy' or 'stupid' to be a valid statement. We are all (presumably) adults on this forum and should act decent at the least.

We all lose our cool, but name calling and underlying ego bashing is never an acceptable way to handle the situation. For Example: In this blog, I felt post #6 to be rude and unthoughtful, seeing as I spent time and effort to create that blog. Mind you it may not have been the most record-shattering blog ever, but it still took time and effort. My reply #7 was me defending my blog and losing my cool at the same time. But I did not call him stupid or resort to name-calling. I did not target him because he was a "Guest", he was the target of my anger because of what he said and not for what he hid behind.

It is not "mollycoddling" as much as it is not tolerating obscene/rude/nasty comments made that discouraging anyone from visiting the site and staying. It is just as much creating a pleasant atmosphere for the people who utilize this site.

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#37

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 10:34 AM

We get too many guests posting at once and you can't keep track if you're being responded too by the same person.

Pretty soon you have "Fred riding Fred riding Fred."

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#41

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 10:57 AM

Welcome back Europium

As a non-engineer avid reader of this forum (and many others) I must say that CR4 is one of the more civil and respectful areas of the internet. Yes there is the occasional post that crosses "the line" but keep in mind that everyone has a different "line". Even I have used the report function from time to time and I consider my "line" to be way out there, so you can be sure the reported posts were truely cruel or offensive. I find the moderation of CR4 to be basically fair and even-handed. I might even agree with some of the posters here that the internet in particular, if not civilization in general, has been in decline of late. Or at least the level of courtesy and civility found there. I attribute most of that to the anonymity provided by hiding behind a keyboard. Just checkout the chatter on some of the massive online games to see where nameless communication is headed.

I will however urge you to stay with us. If you are going to give up on every website that contains such small amounts of nasty bits you might as well unplug your modem completely. The knowledge I gain here far out weighs the occasional unpleasantness. I learned a lot in high school too, and there were bullies there as well. I survived.

Guests? As mentioned above there are basically 3 types. Those who are actually new here as we all were once. Those who are members but log on under the guest tag to ask am embarassingly simple question, these I think represent a very tiny number. The last category are the worst of the bunch, those are members who log on as guests to post something they are too ashamed to post under their CR4 name. These are the vindictive nasty posts. Unfortunately there is no simple way to prevent or control this, it is a fact of internet life.

All in all CR4 is a great place to hang out, can't stay here long without learning something . To the members, keep on posting, keep the mood light and informative, we are all better off for it. To the staff, keep up the good work. and to the guests, don't be shy, take a secord or two and join us.

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#75
In reply to #41

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 5:52 PM

I agree, but I would include a few more 'Guest' categories:

4) members who post anonymously because they forgot to log in,

5) members who post anonymously because they wish to discuss controversial viewpoints without being dogged for the rest of their CR4 lives by the bottom-feeders. I've seen enough of that here (and everywhere else, sadly) to warrant members posting anonymously under these conditions. I've done it myself and I'll do it again if I feel it is necessary to avoid being stalked by haters.

By 'controversial' I mean topics which are not in themselves offensive but which may run counter to mainstream beliefs and/or accepted wisdom. There are provincials here who simply cannot tolerate any worldview other than their own and who seem to actually enjoy launching vicious personal attacks on those having a radically different take on things. It's provincialism in its worst form.

For my part I believe that "If you can afford only one newspaper, buy the opposition's" (but for Pete's sake be discrete about it).

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#77
In reply to #75

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 7:37 PM

I would urge all to take upon themselves the Japanese model....they have perfected the art of good manners and made it indistinguishable from rudeness.

Having said that I would also urge those who have been offended by those provincially pointed heads to learn how to circum=size them.

Duck

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#78
In reply to #77

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 7:56 PM

"...the Japanese model....they have perfected the art of good manners and made it indistinguishable from rudeness."

An Ethiopian, a Texan and a New Yorker were dining together at a local restaurant and had just placed their orders. A few minutes later their server returned with the bad news, "I'm sorry, but due to the shortage we're out of meat."

The Ethiopian asked, "What is meat?"

The Texan asked, "What the hell's a shortage?"

The New Yorker? "What's 'I'm sorry?'"

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#81
In reply to #78

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 8:12 PM

most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted.

Gerald Brenan once said that intellectuals are people who believe that ideas are more important than values. That is, to say, their own ideas and other peoples' values.

I wonder if he was wise enough to play the fool?

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Anonymous Poster
#44

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 12:30 PM

The guest is a long-term member...

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#60
In reply to #44

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 12:31 AM

Must be one of the very first ones. In fact I just checked up, the first guest logged in in March 2005 (within 3 months of site opening) and before that only the admins were talking to themselves.

The site can not grow without you (and we won't have much fun unless we can guest-bash)

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#69
In reply to #60

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/29/2009 2:09 PM

LOL

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#181
In reply to #60

Re: Guests as Trolls

09/05/2009 8:12 AM

They were called anonymous cowards in those days. When I accidently posted without logging in I was embarrassed by being an AC.

CR4 is about the only forum I know that has the easy guest access. Some show you zip if not logged in, most will not allow posting and some don't work well even when logged in. CR4 works well including the moderation.

On the couple of times I've been personally abused I've unsubscribed from the thread. I have however reported a couple that have abused others.

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#45

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 1:11 PM

europium,

I agree with you totally. I have noticed that threads seem to get pulled when Guest starts throwing insults at a registered member but it does not always work the other way around.

Now having said that I was involved in a thread with other registered members that was pulled. My feeling was that Admin over reacted, I personally saw nothing too offensive in the exchanges (yes it was heated but that was about all you could say).

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#49
In reply to #45

Re: Guests as Trolls

07/28/2009 2:53 PM

I can have a pretty short fuse at times, and sometimes I regret having posted something nasty in the heat of the moment. It occurred to me recently that I could report my own post and request the Admins pull it before any more damage is done.

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