Guests as Trolls

Having been castigated for being sarcastic with some guest posts (you know the sort that are three words which form neither a statement or a question, 'Steel girder weight', that sort of thing) I hope it wasn't me.
So go on name names you big chicken so that those responsible can feel the breath of shame upon them.
I'm only writing this because the thread has got 5 stars yet no replies.
BTW there is a 'report' button, I've both used it and had my posts 'dissappeared'

Let he has not sinned fast the first stone.... (I'm sure you can all finish this old joke yourselves)

For the record, I agree we should be civil, if we don't like a thread, just unsubscribe, I do so when it gets too political/religious/personal.
Del

"... I agree we should be civil, if we don't like a thread, just unsubscribe,..."

I agree too.

Meanwhile, Europium's post is well understood and beckons all those who tend to hide under the cover of anonymity of the internet to pick on innocent contributors, especially when they have contrary openions, to have a change of gear by being more matured henceforth.

Cheers,

ethobil

Quite.

There is a mechanism to deal with it, though. It's labelled "Report!" and it looks like a grey pushbutton.

Hello EP, Welcome back.

There are 2 kind of guest one who are not member of CR4, they come just ask a question and go. most of the time they even don't bother to come ,see and write back.most of the time there language is not good and there questions are incomplete too. but thats what they know and they should not be blamed for it.

But there are another kind of guest. Who are regular member and they just log-off when ever they find an opportunity to lashes out other members. I am sorry to disagree but I personally dislike this kind of guests,

Agreeing and disagreeing is individuals right but. I can not hide my face whenever I disagree with someone.

I would like to conclude my words.

Hello rakesh,

We've all had occassions to disagree with or even dislike certain views of other people but the bottom line is, conveying your views or feelings without being vulgarish or arrongant.

Cheers,

ethobil

I've never understood why we're allowed to post as Guests. It's not for anonymity's sake, because we can just as easily register with, say, a Gmail e-mail address that has no connection to us personally.

While the CR4 registration process is a very easy hoop to jump through, it probably does serve as a slight deterrent to those who stumble onto the site and make rude comments or post idiotic (as in homework, for example) questions. Frankly, if the system asks nothing of Guests then Guests aren't going to respect the system. And that just leads to the frustration of the registered users - leading in turn to rude responses from the registered members.

And yes...I'm aware I'm calling the kettle black.

And what's in a username anyway? Just because someone gives the location as Dodman's Lane level crossing, doesn't mean the Dodman's Lane actually exists. Take Etherville, for example. Google Maps doesn't know anything about it.

PWSlack writes: "And what's in a username anyway?"

Good question. In mine there are five letters: T--r--o--l--l.

Amazingly, just ten minutes ago it was G--u--e--s--t (also five letters).

So what am I, now that I've an Official CR4 Username? A benign visitor or Scourge of the Message Boards?

I thing you have chosen your Avatar fate may the dark lord protect you with his dark

power (and Darth Vader)

_{only why he is 1000 I don't know he is suppossed to be the one and only, it is we that multiply in thousands} .

Welcome and have a stroll in the asylum.

Simple. There were 999 impostors who used my name before me on various forums and so forth, so I had to put in the 1,000 just to use my own name. Of course I have hunted down and eliminated the 999 impostors; nonetheless, I still cannot reclaim my own name .

Sheesh! What is this galaxy coming to when a guy can't even use his own name?

I'll wait and see!!!

But the name is great!! Anyone calling you a "Troll" is just telling the truth!!!!

Good post. But no point in giving a GA!!!

Yes, yup, and ayup! I agree with what you've said here, europium. And you're spot-on about the Guest never seeing the "CR4 Rules" in the first place.

So what's the solution, in your opinion? Does the site need more vigilant moderation - of both Members and Guests? Not "Big Brother" stuff, mind you, but more attention given to making this place a welcoming one for newcomers?

Personally, I'm amazed at the high level of decorum of the members here, as well as the guests. A credit to the "broken window" theory. Considering of course that this sits on the www with many other cesspools nearby at the click of a mouse. The problem with freedom, is that occasionally it gets ugly when a baby in a big body comes along. All I ask is that the staff deal with problems as they come along, and I think that they are doing a fine job here. Of course, society in general has been in decline since 2006 (and before) and the population of babies in big bodies keeps getting larger.

society in general has been in decline since 2006 (and before)

Was there a defining event in 06?

Europium's point of reference (till now, presumably)

I thought the 2 of you shared at least 1 point of reference [Texas]

Garth, You beat me to the punch on this reply. I also think some of the rude behavior seen here is a sign of our times. Probably similar to what our parents thought of our generation. Needless to say we live in an evolving world where the acceptance of certain behaviors change regularly. Is it unfortunate? Some of use will say Yes, Other will say it is perfectly acceptable and stop being so sensitive.

I for one do not like degrading and belittling others inpublic. While I am by no means a saint and can swear like a sailor at the drop of a hat, no offense to you navy types, public forums should maintain a bit of civility.

Should Guest be removed as an option, probably not. I would like to know how many GAs Guest has received.

Bob

Society is apparently in continuous decline; nevertheless, it seems to get no worse. Is this something like the red shift?

BTW, I take it you meant 2006 BE (before evolution)? and the click of a moose?

Why did you pick 2006 as a break point in your last sentence?

See #31 - & read the OP to refresh your memory .

I can appreciate the guest participation as i too have gotten some more than adequate advice from guests. (I suspect they were CR4 members incognito)

I would suggest however that using a simple ip tracer and logger you could limit the number of posts or replys a guest could have and then required them to become members to post any additional comments. Say a limit of 5 then register.

Just my opinion. Let the beatings begin. <wimpers> be gentle....

Sadly () I must agree with you completely!!

(Will you please stop posting such good posts, there is nothing to pull apart and to be nasty about!!!

GA from me.

Why thank you again Andy.

I like this place and sometimes the riffraff (guests) get a bit long in the tooth or just downright mean. (Of course so can some of us members) Push the right button and I'm off. At least I am not afraid to show my face.

That being said. I am a believer in there being no ignorant questions, as learning is a good thing. Even the occasional (and dreaded) perpetual motion and free energy questions don't really bother me. At some point someone will have a reasonable reason why it won't work or turn in a different direction and rethink their own hypothesis.

The point I am trying to make is don't be afraid to be a member and ask your questions no matter how embarrassing they may be. It does not show that you are stupid it shows that you are willing to admit when you don't know something and are willing to ask for help. That to me is a sign of true intelligence.

If you want to know who I am look at my profile, it's all there.

Jeff

"I would suggest however that using a simple ip tracer ..."

I've thought about suggesting the idea of associating IP addresses with guests and enumerate these associations as Guest 1, Guest 2, etc., to distinguish one Guest from another. This approach may not work over the life of the thread because, for many accounts, IP addresses are dynamically assigned each time the user's modem is booted.

"I'm not all that fond of guests starting threads, the question has to be extraordinarily interesting for me to bother even clicking on the daily digest link..."

The question may, however, be extraordinarily interesting from the guest's point of view...

and if it was so important for them to interact with CR4, they should register, don't you think?

when you do register people claim your still anonymously and a hypocrite.

But when you register, you are one with one personality and can be addressed so.

when your a guest, you have 1,000's of personalities (which members sometimes hide behind)

which personality are you dealing with?

With that said, There should be guests, who are browsing and posts legitimate questions, answers and interaction, and that last word...sometimes is more that can be handle by some.

oh look....are we still on-topic here?....yah we are.

These ar exactly the issues I have with guests being granted full access to the forums.

What type of limitations would you suggest?

The same limitations I have always stood behind. Every time we have one of these discussions it turns into a guest issue. guests are making post, how are we treating guests, how are guests behaving, how are our hidden members treating each other under the guise of guests.

It seem to me, even though I am not totally opposed to guests, that it is exactly the problem that is at the base of all the issues posted in this particular thread. I have mentioned in this thread as well as other breaching this subject that guests should be tracked based either on their computers digital signature of their IP address or even their ISP. Limit the posts to 5 maximum and then require them to post as a member from that point on.

If you are a member have some guts to at least speak openly and not hide behind the whole guest thing. I have one login for CR4 I have one personality. I am not afraid to show my ignorance of a subject and occasionally I go off half cocked when I am riled. I still login to express my point of view and do not hide behind the guest persona.

Those that do are nothing more than cowards in my opinion. (insults are intended)

I would never let the personality of another member or even a guest run me off as was the original posters issue. This is just another reason why guest posting is such an issue. If our regular members were only allowed to post as a guest on a limited basis then they to would have to either buck up and be real human beings or go away.

I suspect the guest he had issues with getting hammered could very well have been another member in disguise. Call me a jerk if you like ban me if you like but I will not be silent about something that appears to be the root problem of every blog, post, forum, and opinion. That issue being the guest post.

Perhaps this is a bit more clear or maybe it give the appearance of a madman. I will remain a member as long as allowed but I will always be me no matter what. I like this place and am glad to be a part of it but someone needs to really focus on the root cause and not so much on the effect.

Let the beating and whining begin. Please feel free to hide behind the guest persona if your afraid of biting comments back in your direction.

The same limitations I have always stood behind. Every time we have one of these discussions it turns into a guest issue. guests are making post, how are we treating guests, how are guests behaving, how are our hidden members treating each other under the guise of guests.

There is one thing I notice that is interesting, when a debate gets heated up, and exchanges begin. I look on "Who's online" Those heated topics are reviewed heavily.

Is that good or bad?

phoenix911

Just makes ya wonder whos afraid of tipping the boat lol

sit down.........

well ok, stand, because sometimes it does get interesting.

That it definately does. I am just waiting for the comments that are about to be directed at me be cause I am ready willing and more than able to respond.

My decision to join CR4 was based largely on the favorable nature and quality of the responses I received. For me it was a positive experience and so I shed my Guest persona and became the rarest of the rare-earth elements you see today.

Btw, the element Europium is highly reactive but soft as butter (sadly, I couldn't find an element that was also humble).

"I'm not all that fond of guests starting threads, the question has to be extraordinarily interesting for me to bother even clicking on the daily digest link..." - clearly I am missing something here? What exactly is wrong with guests posting? I have read a fair amount of really, well how can I put it, daft questions posted by registered members and I am sure that some people think that I have also posted some daft questions. I have also seen a fair amount of daft posts by Guests aswell. These posts are, in my opinion, daft but that is just my opinion which does not mean much in the big scheme of things.

The basic problem with guest starting threads is you can never tell if they are ever going to come back & read the replies or clarify their question. Of course the same can be said for some members....

The thread I linked to earlier, at least the guy did register & I occasionaly get a glimmer of hope that he may somehow have a better understanding of what he is attempting to undertake. I really want to tell him he's a hobbit, which is a term I use for those of the green persausion, who live in a special place where reality doesn't apply & wishin it were so makes it so...

I try to forgive people who feel they are the center of the universe [ ego that SB speaks of]. There is this tendency to reinvent the wheel or see innovation where none exists. We all like to feel like we are unique in our abilities. Being one in a million, still means there are 6000 or so similar individuals in the world.

Well a computers digital signature is not changeable. Other sites do this I am sure it is possible. I was blocked from POGO once for unsportsman like conduct and could not get back in even with a new name. so I know it can be done.

"So what's the solution, in your opinion? Does the site need more vigilant moderation - of both Members and Guests? Not "Big Brother" stuff, mind you, but more attention given to making this place a welcoming one for newcomers?"

Far more effective than vigilant moderation, I think, would be for us to better police this forum ourselves. Peer pressure can be amazingly effective! There will always be schmuks, of course (I've been one more times than I care to admit), but for these folk we collectively raise the stakes until they either endeavor to comport themselves publicwise, or leave. Those who won't do either should be excised by the moderators. My opinion.

There is another type of Guest posting. That is where the guest is a member, but wishes to raise a question anonymously because of being unsure whether the question is trivial in nature. In this case the member doesn't wish other members to think of them as asking trivial questions. I must confess that I have done this on occasion in the past.

And sometimes, I forget to login before I submit, thus being "Guest" instead of myself.

...fair amount of the most "vulgar, degrading invective"

Uh, you wouldn't want to start a thread of these by any chance, would you?

For some fresh evidence that "yes, CR4 is a moderated site", please note that the following discussions were closed this morning.

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/40997

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/40943

Both questioners received answers despite some some sidebar conversations that were, to put it charitably, less than helpful.

Sorry Moose, could you point out out all those posts (out of the 56 or so in the thread) that have personal insults in them in 40943 ? I could only see one mildly nasty post, which all the other contributors treated with suitable contempt and simply ignored. This was a nice friendly (if rather frivolous) thread.

I've scanned through 40997, and apart from a 6 or 8 post exchange between a Guest and phoenix911, there are no other insults...again this doesn't consistute "throughout" IMHO. Couldn't just the offending posts have been removed?

BTW: I like the fact you're posting why the thread has been closed.

And I do appreciate the good work the CR4 team does, I'm just asking about these two particular decisions as I don't understand them.

Hi Moose,

I wanted to say thanks for yanking the thread (mine) after the guest and Phoenix911 got into it. Also, thanks to those who gave me the information I needed on the Satellite Imaging for Africa. I am following up on each of the pieces of information posted and most of it appears useful. Thanks.

Hi Moose,

Thanks for replying and explaining. I know it's a fine line you walk!

Oooh! I've just remembered the feature of the old site where regular contributors were asked to check moderate! Eee, lad that takes me back, it was all fields round here back then!

Hi, Moose,

I agree with the moderation applied to the first thread you linked, but I just read through the "asparagus" thread, and feel you've overreacted. All I got from it were a few (possibly) helpful suggestions, and a lot of good-natured banter. Maybe there was an underlying "nasty" aspect that I didn't see?

Hi JohnDG,

I'm not sure if you've seen my response to English Rose or not, but it was easy enough for me to cleanup and then reopen the asparagus thread. There was a "nasty" aspect to one of the comments there, but I won't extend its tawdry but short-lived life by repeating it here.

Moose

Thanks, Moose.

I didn't record the original, but I think I remember the gist of the comment(s) - looked to me like someone saying "BUM" when they should've known better.

Never mind.

Europium, glad to see you back. I hope you can see your way to suffering some of the crap and hang around, please - I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates your input.

Best regards to all,

John.

Yo Moose........why not use the idiot equation...........type in 'delete' for any word that uses derogatory synonyms eg (Felicity, my wife, prevents me from saying further) and list the offender. If alliteration is the cause then sublimation is the cure...no? If not then to hell with the offender......temporary banishment works if only as a form of humiliation.....just ask any Brit who've bin booted out've their favourite pub.........certain members come to mind...but I drift.....

I would list the banished. Admonishments also. Might start a whole new argument thread.

On the other hand, what would the advertizers think.........

If I wuz one ..I'ds get one helluva kick out've what I read on this groove........(darn good groove, incidentally)

good god.........I have to remind myself itz the internet

I saw the comment before it was removed. It was unnecessary, rude and cruel. It was only one or two comments that did this, so after Moose closed it, he probably realized it wasn't a significant banter like in the first thread and just deleted the comments and reopened it. It wasn't a reoccurring problem like the first thread.

Dear Europium,

First, it is nice to see you back.

I really need your input on the Jorrie Balloon Model because we have had arguments in the past.

I am a fighter.

I get to fight fair in this Forum.

Sometimes I lose, and sometimes I win.

It is all above the neck here really, though you might not really want to piss Del the cat off too much. Second and third, it is nice to see you back.

The WWW is a big place. Trolls and Goblins and Banshees are everywhere you go

Have had no need to press the "report" button on anything yet (touch wood) and would have no problem doing so, so mods can determine what is suitable content to be on their website.

The "guest" issue raised is a non-issue for me and an important assett to rope in newbies.

I would never let a bad apple on a tree stop me from trying another apple on that same tree...some people are different and may not return. That's what makes the WWW a wonderful place, being able to freely choose.

cwarner7 11,

I agree with you 100%.

GA

I have found it best to abide by 2 rules concerning negative posts:

1) Do not feed the trolls (by responding to them) and

2) The only thing more futile than arguing with a troll is thinking you can win the argument.

Europium has point I will request all of us to be little bit more decent in replying to our Honourable Guests whoever they are and whatever they are. In India we are supposed treat our Guests as Gods..

...and I still enjoy seeing you (and all "named") persons post here!!!!We can agree to disagree......

I have to admit that I am not a fan of allowing guests to post.......I bow to the majority of course if thats what they want.....then OK.....

I must also admit to getting some "perverse" pleasure when two guests start dissagreeing with each other, its like someone with a split personality, arguing with himself!!!!

That sort of makes up for having them posting here in the first place..........

I must also admit to getting some "perverse" pleasure when two guests start dissagreeing with each other, its like someone with a split personality, arguing with himself!!!!

I have to agree with you on this one.

I don't think that having moderators deleting rude comments is really 'mollycoddling' anyone. It just comes down to being respectful and courteous, and not resorting to kindergarten tactics of name-calling and ego bashing. A well thought-out argument does not need 'dummy' or 'stupid' to be a valid statement. We are all (presumably) adults on this forum and should act decent at the least.

We all lose our cool, but name calling and underlying ego bashing is never an acceptable way to handle the situation. For Example: In this blog, I felt post #6 to be rude and unthoughtful, seeing as I spent time and effort to create that blog. Mind you it may not have been the most record-shattering blog ever, but it still took time and effort. My reply #7 was me defending my blog and losing my cool at the same time. But I did not call him stupid or resort to name-calling. I did not target him because he was a "Guest", he was the target of my anger because of what he said and not for what he hid behind.

It is not "mollycoddling" as much as it is not tolerating obscene/rude/nasty comments made that discouraging anyone from visiting the site and staying. It is just as much creating a pleasant atmosphere for the people who utilize this site.

We get too many guests posting at once and you can't keep track if you're being responded too by the same person.

Pretty soon you have "Fred riding Fred riding Fred."

I agree, but I would include a few more 'Guest' categories:

4) members who post anonymously because they forgot to log in,

5) members who post anonymously because they wish to discuss controversial viewpoints without being dogged for the rest of their CR4 lives by the bottom-feeders. I've seen enough of that here (and everywhere else, sadly) to warrant members posting anonymously under these conditions. I've done it myself and I'll do it again if I feel it is necessary to avoid being stalked by haters.

By 'controversial' I mean topics which are not in themselves offensive but which may run counter to mainstream beliefs and/or accepted wisdom. There are provincials here who simply cannot tolerate any worldview other than their own and who seem to actually enjoy launching vicious personal attacks on those having a radically different take on things. It's provincialism in its worst form.

For my part I believe that "If you can afford only one newspaper, buy the opposition's" (but for Pete's sake be discrete about it).

I would urge all to take upon themselves the Japanese model....they have perfected the art of good manners and made it indistinguishable from rudeness.

Having said that I would also urge those who have been offended by those provincially pointed heads to learn how to circum=size them.

Duck

The guest is a long-term member...

Must be one of the very first ones. In fact I just checked up, the first guest logged in in March 2005 (within 3 months of site opening) and before that only the admins were talking to themselves.

The site can not grow without you (and we won't have much fun unless we can guest-bash)

LOL

They were called anonymous cowards in those days. When I accidently posted without logging in I was embarrassed by being an AC.

CR4 is about the only forum I know that has the easy guest access. Some show you zip if not logged in, most will not allow posting and some don't work well even when logged in. CR4 works well including the moderation.

On the couple of times I've been personally abused I've unsubscribed from the thread. I have however reported a couple that have abused others.

europium,

I agree with you totally. I have noticed that threads seem to get pulled when Guest starts throwing insults at a registered member but it does not always work the other way around.

Now having said that I was involved in a thread with other registered members that was pulled. My feeling was that Admin over reacted, I personally saw nothing too offensive in the exchanges (yes it was heated but that was about all you could say).

I can have a pretty short fuse at times, and sometimes I regret having posted something nasty in the heat of the moment. It occurred to me recently that I could report my own post and request the Admins pull it before any more damage is done.