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Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/09/2013 2:23 PM

To generate super-heated steam mechanically, requires using hydraulics, as hydraulics are linear, example 3,000 psi times 10 = 30,000 psi

Next the pressure effect on water flow is also linear, in this case 3,400 meters a second.

From my experience you need to atomize the water and inject pulses to avoid destroying the system.

The atomized water clusters create tremendous Impact Heat. No external heat required to change to gaseous state.

As this only uses the energy needed to pump water, 10 H.P. will pump 450 lbs of water at 15,000 psi, creating super heated steam. ( 7.5 KW hr)

Why not replace old fashioned steam heaters, like nuclear power.

I'm not a nuclear power engineer, but can you produce 450 lbs of super-heated steam for less than 7.5 KW hr?

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#219
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Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/27/2013 3:09 PM

More ungrammatical drivel.

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#220
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Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/27/2013 7:47 PM

"500 psi, is a tangible substance, compressed air or steam contain energy"

Sorry but no.

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#221
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Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/27/2013 8:34 PM

I am afraid that you are not communicating anything meaningful here.

Strike the following. It contains no new information:

I use international steam tables. They are avaliable on the web.

Strike the next paragraph. You have claimed to be dealing with superheated steam.

You will learn the Pressure/Temperature Relationship is always the same for pure steam, 500 psi has steam temperature of 467.01


Then the rest is nonsensical. You need to write in complete sentences, if you are to be understood. It appears the gist of what you wrote is that a gas at high pressure has greater density than the same gas at low pressure.

If that is what you intended, then all of what you wrote could be replaced by this:

"At a constant temperature, the density of a gas varies with pressure."

But we all knew that, so was there any point in your post? Its net communication value is zero.

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#223
In reply to #218
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Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/27/2013 10:38 PM

'....

I use international steam tables. They are avaliable on the web.

You will learn the Pressure/Temperature Relationship is always the same for pure steam, 500 psi has steam temperature of 467.01

The same 500 PSI increases in density. The specific volume of steam at 500 psi 0.93 (cu ft/lb)

At 212 degees F. ZERO PRESSURE the same lb of steam has a volume of 26.80 (cu ft/lb)

500 psi, is a tangible substance, compressed air or steam contain energy....'

.

Smokie,

Have you ever visited a foreign country, or been in an area where most people were speaking a language that isn't your first spoken language?

.

If you have, did you (or if you haven't yet, might you....) 'make use' of a few terms you often heard, to 'talk' to native speakers, by haphazardly throwing together strings of those words, without any concern for exact word meaning, or things like customary syntax?

Any were you similarly upset with the native speakers for being too ignorant to understand the poetry you created in their language?

.

If you have not previously done that, what made you want to start that behavior in this tread?

.

Are you not at least a little embarrassed when people repeatedly point out your functional lack of understanding of the vocabulary of terms/concepts?

Don't you feel uneasy, or somewhat of a fake when you try to incorporate technical jargon without understanding the meaning or customary grammar?

.

I really have a hard time believing that the thought never crossed your mind that people who actually do understand the subjects you are pretending wouldn't immediately recognize your lack of understanding.....

.

....so it leaves me a little baffled:

How could you possibly not understand that many here will quickly see through your attempted ruse ?

or

If on the other hand you didn't fail to recognize that people quickly spot the attempted fraud, how can you tolerate continuing to make such statements?

.

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#224
In reply to #223

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/28/2013 12:00 AM

What? Me worry?

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#217
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Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/27/2013 1:02 PM

What a load of gibberish.

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#262
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Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

08/12/2013 4:48 AM

Molecular bond energy is normally negative.

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#132
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Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/13/2013 4:28 AM

<...to research something...don't understand...>

That is the purpose of asking questions in this thread. After all, the purpose of the thread is peer review.

As evading questions seems to be quite popular these days, the chance of achieving understanding seems rather slim at this time. After 130+ replies, the bulk of the readership seems to have no idea what this thread is all about, which says something about the language used in it. That it is being promoted by an automatic random technical phrase generator program seems more plausible by the minute.

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#133
In reply to #132

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/13/2013 4:36 AM

An automatic phrase generator program would probably do a better editing job than the slop we are getting from the OP. One wonders what smokie's smokin'--must be some awfully good stuff.

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#136
In reply to #133

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/13/2013 7:03 AM

Just don't go near the Vatican at the moment...

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#148
In reply to #132

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/13/2013 7:31 PM

As evading The bigger question is the lack to see the facts in research in this Field of kinetic energy can be & has been done and to see the how to do something for lack of what it is, OK. Let me break this down the multi finns capture the kinetic energy as it pushes the fans( put a fan out side when it's windy) OK now if you have a way to focus the wind to a point on the finns, LIKE a air nozzle, Got it now. The finns are the work transfer to fluid power IE. water pressure or oils. Not steam ( which takes energy to heat). The heat output is recaptured at the base of the containment chamber inside which the molecule is moving faster & focused increased its' flow & speed in this chamber.

It seems that many can't read and understand a simple theory of school level science. Fundamental questions & printed facts escape most minds' eye & there can not see.

Don't over think its simple that makes it hard no matter how ask the question is simply ask. Not the things that are said without thought or research, Which is easly proven by students ever day in high schools all over the world.

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#149
In reply to #148

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/13/2013 8:18 PM

er......What???

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#150
In reply to #149

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/13/2013 9:26 PM
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#151
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Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/14/2013 10:05 AM

I get upset, with out names, many people, not you, show ignorance.

I have learned, nobody understands the clusterelectric effect (CEE),

so it was a waste of my time, to point out attemps to harness energy

for over 100 years, as per journal Plasma physics. this paper

cambridge press 2000 vol 63 ..

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#152
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Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/14/2013 10:29 AM

(CEE) indicates that low barrier charge transfer reactions can proceed during the short time of surface contact ( impact) which is on the order of picoseconds.

Arc liberated chemical energy exceeds electrical input energy.

for over 100 years, passing a kiloampere current pulse through the plasma, they have a history of unusally strong water arc explosions.

I find most people don't understand, if impact shatters the relatively weak intermolecular bonds during impact, creates tremendous heat and charging,

that other then myself, nobody has ever injected water ( fog) ( 150 degrees feed water) using 30,000 psi. using a ICM and pulse of 3 mili seconds.

I ask the crazy people, who have ZERO ZERO experience to enjoy life

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#153
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Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/14/2013 11:05 AM

Well smokie, it appears that someone understands CCE.

This paper provides extensive information on experiments conducted. The long and detailed discussion therein does not seem to support your claims. A number of applications seem to be potentially available from the process, but the heat you are wishing for does not seem to be one of them.

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#184
In reply to #153

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/23/2013 2:35 PM

It matters not to me, I'm sorry.

I run my engine, today using 25,000 psi, into my Piezo injectors. I need to adjust my ECM. Monday, and we will film everything.

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#183
In reply to #148

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/23/2013 10:33 AM

OK I give up. Which translators did you use and between which languages did you convert this text to get the mangled trash you posted?

BTW...you wouldn't be thread hijacking again, would you?

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#125

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/12/2013 8:31 PM

It's getting about time to report this dingaling to some fraud protection agencies.

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#141
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Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/13/2013 10:58 AM
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Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/13/2013 10:59 AM

Whaterver you're on, can I have a pint, please?

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#144

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/13/2013 12:35 PM

It seems that You have a great Ideal! Now Why not use Kinetic Energy to run Hydraulic Pumps to run the generator, As in the system Known as Renewable (Thermal ) Wind power systems main power transfer of both heat to aid in air flow and fluid power to run the systems air turbines multi finns.

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#186

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/23/2013 4:55 PM

Ok. So we don't think he's getting the results he claims in part because he hasn't successfully quantified what any of the components are doing as a whole, and, that he could be endangering himself with this impact activated system. So. Why can't something be used that both minimizes risk and gets a similar result? What would a steel with high carbon and bismuth do? Seems like it would take away impact, sure; but would it even need it if the principles behind this are sound? What you'd lose in impact you wouldn't need as much anyway, not with the bismuth in there. It would make the steel softer, but if it isn't being cut into, that's not as important either. It would make up a lot just being so slow to absorb heat. The vast majority would be reflected back into the steam in that short of a time rather than absorbed as in typical steels.

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#187
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Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/24/2013 6:24 AM

Oh no!

.

This looks very bad.

.

This tropic seems to be approaching a critical stupidity density....

.

Notice how more and more certain comments seem to be affected by the presence of other similar comments, apparently releasing more and more moron-a-trons....

... on and on, building in this vicious circle, rapidly increasing the moron-a-tron population....

.

It might only take the addition of one more special commenter to shift the balance from slightly sub-critical to super-critical stupidity...

....which is certain to result in an unprecedented Idioticxplosion!

.

To those of you with the ability, please use your logic and sound reasons to poison the moron-a-trons that are being released and prevent the impending catastrophe!

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#188
In reply to #187

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/24/2013 2:49 PM

So I guess I'm supposed to apologize for asking for something you might know, huh? I guess we should all know now. You are here for your ego. Small man stuff. Chekk.

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#189
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Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/24/2013 7:20 PM

I don't see a question there.

I see a lot of poorly developed conjecture trying to shield itself from criticism by pretending it is a question.

I frequently make mistakes, so I certainly could have been mistaken. Perhaps you could restate your question in some other form than:

'why couldn't ______(something that shows the subject discussed has not been studied more than momentarily) be used to ________(something that displays a misunderstanding of fundamental dynamics, something that might be remedied quickly with an effort to learn something about the subject) and there by ________ (the elusive goal which is no closer to being understood than achieve, now that the conjecture is ending).'

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#200
In reply to #189

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/25/2013 3:25 PM

Ahh, good morning. I was waiting for this. Ok. As you MIGHT know, we use bismuth for thermocouples and electromagnetic deflection because of it's low electron affinity. You with me so far? So my question was; could an impact chamber with some bismuth in the steel do what the impact chamber does, without the impact? As I understand from other reading, they've tried these things with a vibrating component-which means that they are probably putting even more power into that as well. Bismuth is passive. Due to it being a very soft metal, it seems to me that other metals would have to balance that out. But I do not know. Nor do I know if this whole thread is a total load of crapola. What I do know is that I try to give possibilities to people with problems instead of just running them down for them. If you aren't here for helping this kind of scenario; then why be here? Is this just for engineers, and no others; such as inventors, should bother showing up with a question? Business owners; what about them? Get off your high horse dude. You are 100 % right that I was asking questions about something that I don't know all there is to know about. Feel better? Good. Just so's you know; I could give a damn whether you have much to say now, because I think you kind of suck.

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#201
In reply to #200

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/25/2013 4:50 PM

It has been a long time since I was majoring in chemistry (switched to physics), and terminology has changed somewhat, but I don't see why Bismuth is a good choice. First, what does electron affinity have to do with anything in the context of physically smacking water against something solid? Allegedly, these are molecules at the time of impact, NOT free electrons.

Second, there are a considerable number of metals with LOWER electron affinity than Bismuth, if a quick look at some tables hasn't led me too far astray. Lithium, Sodium, Potassium, Rubidium, Cesium - the alkali metals - appear to have significant advantages in terms of low electron affinity, IF there is any reason to desire it. I'd suggest that Smokie really needs more Lithium...

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#202
In reply to #201

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/25/2013 6:37 PM

Feed water, this is designed to run with water condensed after the gaseous cycle,

as you know, it takes 970 BTU per pound to change state at 200/210 degrees.

Water at 130 degrees has different viscosity and flow rates and while it changes state, it does turn to saturated steam, but not super heated steam.

Water at 200/210 degrees upon impact at 1500 meters a second, has no problem with the intermolecular bond. You save the energy needed ( 970 BTU).

I have done tests at various feed temperatures. I assume you know water molecules are quite excited at temperatures over 200 degrees F. and that water flow is linear at 100 C.

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#207
In reply to #202

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/26/2013 12:50 AM

Can you explain why you put this as a "Reply" to post #202, given that it answers none of the questions there, nor does it seem to have any actual connection to it?

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#203
In reply to #201

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/25/2013 8:36 PM

Chemistry-switched to physics. Perfect. What I'm throwing out there is that there MIGHT be some chance to mechanically create a potential for a superexchange scenario, being that the fluid component to be broken consists of two hydrogen and an oxygen. You are certainly right in that there's no free lunch, but there might be more than has been typically extracted so far.

One thing I'm noticing is that there are many here who think there is nowhere useful for this guy to go. Cool. So then why can't we just bag this 'smokie's idea and try to figure the larger posed question by asking what has not been tried yet?

And yes, those other elements have their affinity traits, but they are not a suitable component for a non-radioactive source, or are nowhere near suitable for other reasons. You all got somethin against bismuth here? You like carbon for this impact chamber, and it's been recommended this guy. And the carbon will allow a high rate of kinetic loss and is conductive.

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#206
In reply to #203

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/25/2013 10:47 PM

Okay. I'll bite.

What percentage of bismuth? I'm assuming you aren't just referring to the minute amounts used in free machining steels, right? What else is it alloyed with?

Besides low thermal conductivity, what is it exactly you are trying to achieve with bismuth?

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#222
In reply to #203

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/27/2013 8:49 PM

You seem to be knowlegable, I would like to recomend reading some papers by R.D. Levine. From The fritz Haber Research Center for Molecular Dynamics, The Hebrew University Jerusalem 91904, Israel.

I have one of his most recent papers published a few months ago, but don't have it here. So I will recomend one published August 6th 1996.

"On the shattering of clusters by surface impact heating" I will quote only one line. "Cluster impact heating is an optimal tool for the study of the transition to shattering because it can induce a tremendous energy deposition in a time much shorter than the rate of expansion of the cluster. Seen in the other way round, the transition to shattering demonstrates the tremendous rate of heating that can be achieved by cluster impact"

If I remember correctly this paper is on the list about #622 he has published?

In his last paper water clusters started to fragment about 1,000 meters a second on solid impact, they reached 100% indepentent molecules after impact at 1500 meters a second, eliminating the electro static bonds.

With out any detail, it shows that for impact at higher velocities there is extensive or even complete dissociation into atoms.

Thank you

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#233
In reply to #222

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/29/2013 10:07 AM

But it's the detail that is so facinating...

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#190
In reply to #187

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/24/2013 9:26 PM

Really! If as if the facts of known kinetic energy is very real , It's also the facts that many here only use lack of high school science NOT NEW kinetic energy use for many years. You have many things that are considered here that show lack of understanding on a know method of it's use to make some form of use able energy, Fact wind towers blade type is kinetic energy pushing the blade like water in hydro plants, OK.

If this man says & prove to be a real project, AS is known by most engineers of science & physics know already, ARE FACTs but not some one thats not up on todays emerging knowledge.( Not old drunks but) That haven't worked in many Fields of study.

In my opinoun this is a sound fact of steam power produced from this engine is workable.

For those of apparently low knowledge need to catch up before down grading this mans work without being a bullie which seems to be the best at insulting them who make bad comments without thought.

Smokie don't pay them any mind. I have had it with the old drunks putting others down & they them self's shows their lack of thought, to them selfs & how this hole project ends. Quite SAD really. NO RESPONCE NESSCERAY.

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#191
In reply to #190

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/24/2013 9:40 PM

I have a recommendation for you. Smokie does such a poor job of communicating that he could really benefit from some help. You should apply for a position in his fledgling organization. Get in on the ground floor, and really reap the gravy later.

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#199
In reply to #191

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/25/2013 2:06 PM

I agree completely with you.

Our OP is doing important work that will overturn core principals in physics. It is the kind of work that has, until now, been associated with "nut cases". The folks who have proposed over-unity devices in the past have (incredibly often) been unable (or unwilling) to use language in a way that actually communicates. Our OP uses this technique too.

Terms like "KW per hour" have essentially no meaning, at least given the context. (Nothing seems to indicate that the OP was trying to describe an acceleration.) Therefore, we can't make sense of what the OP is trying to communicate. It seems he is trying to communicate that he has imagined a means of creating steam at a rate of perhaps 20 HP from an input rate of perhaps 10 HP.

Anyone with some exposure to physics would say "Gibberish!" The OP's desire to use units "incorrectly" just invites skepticism... the last thing he needs.

As you point out, what the OP needs is Kennynabb6's skill at communicating.

Read this:

"If this man says & prove to be a real project, AS is known by most engineers of science & physics know already, ARE FACTs but not some one thats not up on todays emerging knowledge.( Not old drunks but) That haven't worked in many Fields of study."

Is that not poetry? Think e.e. cumming: one need not follow every drab language convention. This kennynabb6 prose tests the limits of our ability as receivers; we struggle to separate signal from noise... but only because our receivers, are, I propose, too crude for the transmission. (Our eyes do not receive IR well either, being capable of making sense of just a tiny part of the EM spectrum.)

I feel certain that kennynabb6 and Smokie can work together to eliminate anything from the description of Smokie's device that would cause skepticism. Eliminating all measurement units would be a good start. Adding rhythm (and perhaps rhyme) could be explored.

I think that the meaningful content of this thread can be presented thusly:

"Ah what folly the physicist holds!

Goes in. Goes out:

The first more; the second less.

Flip these."

What's to argue with?

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#192
In reply to #190

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/24/2013 9:51 PM

Thank you

It is strange, people in universities world wide, have studied kinetic energy and impact heating. In Japan the study of high-speed liquid-solid impact has both academic and industrial interest.

In Israel using" Even Uzi " as one of the authors you can find, untold numbers of papers on Fluid flow Impacts.

In the USA, only the military studies kinetic energy for weapons, (APFSDS, tank penetrator) uses no explosives, impact at 1,700 m/s is enough. The Specific kinetic energy is 470,000 (J/kg)

Thank you again, Smokie

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#194
In reply to #192

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/25/2013 5:55 AM

How are the proof tests going? Do you have the results yet? Can we see them?

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#195
In reply to #194

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/25/2013 6:10 AM

Poorly; yes; no.

(That's just a guess, but we may soon see something. Or maybe not.)

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#196
In reply to #194

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/25/2013 12:38 PM

The tests on saturday went fine, on low wave ( timing) we transformed 4.98 lbs of water using 1 KW hr.

I don't have an automatic ECM.. and have to have it changed.. today we are

changing the wave by a factor of 4.8 ( length ) After test today we will film everything on tuesday.

I have control of frequency with a simple dial, and 2 manual options of the length of the wave. So today I have 2 options 1 mil sec or 2.5 mil sec. ( length of wave)

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#231
In reply to #196

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/29/2013 9:42 AM

Dare I ask what you mean by "the wave"? I don't recall that being mentioned before.

What was your power output for that water transformation?

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#193
In reply to #190

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/24/2013 10:26 PM

'...the facts of known kinetic energy is very real....'

.

That is what you have gathered from the comments?!? You think this is a disagreement about whether kinetic energy exists or not? Really?

.

Are you of the opinion that if kinetic energy exists that Smokie's claims have a good chance of being true? Do you think he is possibly putting in 10hp and getting out 20hp without effectively burning some sort of fuel or otherwise extracting energy from something outside the system such as a difference in temperature?

.

.

Take notice. The Stupidensity is rapidly approaching the critical point of pervasive DUH. More and more moron-a-trons wiz angrily past. Prepare for the completely unthinkable unthought.

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#198
In reply to #193

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/25/2013 1:17 PM

You don't believe that Kinetic energy on impact shatters the intermolecular bond holding the water molecules to each other.

You believe the Rankine cycle is the ONLY way to convert liquid water into steam is by boiling the water.

You just don't believe, you will not study tests from Israel on Impact shattering of water clusters.. BECAUSE THEY DON"T BOIL THE WATER..

You think the Japanese faked the liquid-solid Impact testing at the hypersonic range. You think they faked the damage and the perforation caused by the velocities of small water jets ( water clusters) pulses.

I'm sure you don't believe that upon impact, a strong shock wave propagates in the plate outwards from the impact center.

Go back to study of steam engines in 1924, Abner Doble is a good place to start

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#205
In reply to #198

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/25/2013 10:09 PM

Oh, Smokie,

You are so right (somebody note the time, and make a record).

I do not 'believe' in things like that any more than I believe in widely accepted laws of physics, or even the Sun.

I don't 'believe' or even have 'faith' in those things, because I do not relate to those things as if they were incomprehensible magic or some unknowable origins of a religion.

I know with a high level of certainty a number of reliable characteristics of those things... but I do not 'believe' in those things.

A 'believer' continues without questioning. Without questioning, a scientific endeavor cannot continue.

.

And so you have blundered into making a statement that might be considered a pithy bit of insight....

.

You have pinpointed the difference that is likely causing much of the friction here. We are speaking different languages. Many people here, read scientific papers to further their understanding. You are quoting scientific papers as if they were sacred esoteric scripture.

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#197
In reply to #186

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/25/2013 12:55 PM

I'm sorry, having used many different metals from S/S to 99% copper.

At no point do I use anything, not capable of 200% of internal pressure or

heat.

I'm used to people who don't believe that anybody can improve on the Rankine cycle, much less eliminate using external heat to heat the kettle, this worked thousands of years, the cave man learned you could heat water inside a hollow rock. Then a few hundred years ago people learned you could seal the kettle. This has not changed in the computer age. The nuclear power plants, still heat a sealed kettle.

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#204
In reply to #197

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/25/2013 9:46 PM

Learning about steam plant chemistry used to keep boilers safe could save your life (or someone around you), or prevent crippling injury.

.

Please, whatever you take away from this, it is vital that you learn about SSC and other rapid corrosion processes that can result in brittle fracture/catastrophic failure.

.

The condition you have described create a time bomb that can rip bodies apart. Please get up to speed on this before proceeding.

If you injure someone because you are don't want to learn what is necessary to keep your operation safe, how are you going to live with that?

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#243

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/30/2013 4:50 AM

If a flow of water contains 7.5 kJ and this is all converted to kinetic energy with no losses, then 7.5kJ is the max total energy that can be extracted (assuming no losses).

This applies whether this is converted to heat and pressure of steam, mechanical energy from a turbine or anything else.

Claiming 20HP from a 10HP input is simply not possible.

There is no chemical energy to be extracted from water without putting extra energy in. It is already in it's most stable state.

Regardless of any talk of "mist energy", energy in = energy out + losses.

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#247
In reply to #243

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/30/2013 10:38 AM

So just tell me you don't believe papers from Cambridge, or Oxford.

Please tell them. Not me.

Another paper " The Anomalous Fragmentation of Water Clusters at Ultrafast Impacts"

This was up for publication, so I assume it has been. List of schools Sacker school of chemistry, Tel Aviv Institut fur Chemie, in Berlin Jerusalem College of Engineering Jerusalem and last Institute of Chemistry, the Hebrew University.

On Page 21... At very high velocities the cluster will fragment completely into neutral molecules.

What drives the system to smaller fragments is the need to dispose of the high available energy.

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#248
In reply to #247

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/30/2013 10:51 AM

Smokie, no one has to tell the people at Oxford or Cambridge that they don't 'believe' in the papers.

.

One reason is that the people at Cambridge and Oxford don't 'believe' or 'have faith' in the papers either.

.

Science does not work in this way. Science requires just the opposite: it requires rigorous critical review.

Rigorous critical review and understanding that mistakes and revisions are unavoidable, are two fundamental characteristics of science that make it so valuable.

.

Scientific papers are not religious texts. It isn't merely acceptable to question a scientific paper, it is a duty.

.

.

Can you grasp this concept?

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#250
In reply to #248

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/30/2013 2:01 PM

Thank you,

For years people tell me what I'm doing isn't possible. I didn't start out to get energy from Impact Heating. I expected a combination of Impact Heat and heat transfer by convection.

After I learned how to increase the temperature in my Impact Chamber, with cool water a few degrees, the rest came easy.

I thank you, is no reason for me to answer anybody anymore. I can't run my low pressure steam engine continuous.

But I can generate much more chemical energy, like yesterday over 2,000 psi and the gaskets failed next to the expansion chamber. It was my fault I installed two regulators one for each cylinder. But forgot to install a balance tube. Everything froze in less then 1 second.

Thank you again,

Richard E. Aho

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#251
In reply to #250

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/30/2013 6:20 PM

Post #72

Someone said earlier that you might be putting yourself in danger. I agree because your choice of materials will never last long enough to get any reliable results. They can disintegrate at Murphy's will.

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#252
In reply to #250

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/30/2013 9:45 PM

So what you are saying is that basically you would build up pressure (contained and stored energy) then release it through your steam engine into your generator in short bursts to achieve momentary outputs of 20 hp while only having put in 10 HP but for a longer time period than what the steam engine and generator end of the system would run?

That as you ran the input power for 20 seconds at 10 HP while you got 20 HP out for maybe 5 - 10 seconds or so or for whatever actual run times you used but still the overall input energy exceeded the total output energy?

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#257
In reply to #250

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

04/01/2013 2:21 PM

If you're generating as much heat as you say, and starting with heated water, how/why did "everything freeze"?? Where did all that lovely impact heat go?? Perhaps more insulation is needed around the cylinders?

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#253
In reply to #247

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/31/2013 4:35 AM

Smokie, the behavior of the water under high pressure injection conditions is irrelevant to what I wrote.

"Energy in" = "energy out" + losses

This applies regardless of the exotic behavior of water under these HP conditions.

When at Uni, we were investigating using 50,000 psi water for cutting metal.

A squirt into a container of water and mercury made an emulsion which didn't separate for weeks!

My neighbor cuts concrete with a 45,000 psi jet. He looks like a space man with the protective gear he has to wear, and it takes about 700HP to drive it, but it works very well.

No matter what he does with this high pressure, high volume jet, there is no way he could extract more energy out than he puts in!

As I said earlier, "energy in" = "energy out" + losses.

There is no way around that fact.

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#254
In reply to #253

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/31/2013 2:55 PM

Read " The Anomalous Fragmentation of Water Clusters at Ultrafast Impacts"

You need to atomize, and have a pulse, I assume you know you can arrive at neutral water monomers two ways. The most common is evaporation.

What is special about the water cluster is the high intermolecular energy bond.

Breaking the parent cluster is energy intensive. At low velocities of impact the cluster will rebound intact: there is not enough energy to break the intermolecular bonds. " At very high velocity the cluster will fragment completely into neutral monomer. What drives the system to smaller fragments is the need to dispose of the high available energy"

This work was supported by a joint Tel Aviv-Berlin-Jerusalem GIF Grant No. 863/05

None of the tests, in this work were conducted in a sealed container, none of these tests were conducted in a pre-heated container. But six Professors from 4 Schools of chemistry signed off on it.

So you see, running a water jet isn't exotic, it is only 1 part

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#256
In reply to #254

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/31/2013 3:28 PM

Smokie - it appears that you didn't actually READ the first and second lines of post #254. Why not?

And, "What is special about the water cluster is the high intermolecular energy bond. ... Breaking the parent cluster is energy intensive." OK, fine, let's accept that for simplicity - but any such bond ABSORBS energy, just as it would absorb heat energy in a boiler, vibrational energy from a piezoelectric vaporizer element, or low-intensity thermal energy at room temperature. Separating the liquid's molecules ABSORBS energy - yet you keep claiming that it gives off energy.

And AFAIK, no one ever claimed that running a water jet was exotic. Knocking down a straw man doesn't impress me, nor likely anyone else on this forum.

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#255
In reply to #253

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

03/31/2013 3:24 PM

Sorry

All my tests require a pulse, and both a ICM and ECM . As 1 injection by itself doesn't accomplish much. But explain this energy in and increase in chemical energy.

Impact chamber temperature is 375 degrees F and water is 160 degrees F.

Using a diesel Ford injector, with 15,000 psi, we reset the micro processor, this uses 4 injections each (.3 gram) then after 2 second delay, our program had 5 injections a second each .3 gram for 2 seconds. Counting reset for the micro processor, our total volume of water was 4.2 grams of water.

Result : The pressure went to 1340 PSI in 2 seconds. And using the Steam Tables Pressure / temperature relationship, our entire chamber and steam was 575 degrees.

Energy In, Hydraulic oil pump, uses 9.27 BTU per pound of water at 3,000 psi ( 5 lbs of oil with intensifier piston) the test used 1/108 lb of oil. or .435 Btu to heat the 4.2 grams of liquid water.

Thank you, I quit answering on this site, but think you might enjoy the ref paper.

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#258
In reply to #255

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

04/02/2013 12:30 PM

But explain this energy in and increase in chemical energy.


This is the first time you've mentioned chemical energy, if I remember correctly. The kinetic to thermal energy transfer you described at first cannot explain your claimed results. (You appear to misunderstand the nature of collisions and the energy transfers in such events. Your linear vs non-linear explanation makes no sense at all. It suggests that you might believe that reducing the nozzle size in a gas turbine to half its diameter -- increasing the gas velocity roughly four fold -- would therefore increase the power delivery of the turbine by 16 times.)

What chemical reaction are you proposing as an explanation? In one study, thermo-nuclear decomposition of a polymer film was proposed by the experimenters studying hypersonic impacts.

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#259

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

06/12/2013 4:20 PM

If you already have a continuous power source to generate superheated steam then you don't need a nuclear reactor.

Heat exchanger use compressed supper heated steam for larger energy density transport. Just because you have super heated steam in small quantity, you can't use it again to power the grid. It is not a perpetual system.

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#260
In reply to #259

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

06/21/2013 7:44 AM

Lets think for a minute about the thought of just heat source is not steam!, just the waste heat naturly rises up with incoming freash air at base. of course in this case the kinetc energy is maybe used compressed water,( remembering fluids get hot under combression).

Now knowing the solar thermal systems of old methods. Heat engines style solar vortex system is a good method of kinetic power combines 8 naturals & 6 man made thermal transfure systems, Ref site for public awearnes ED. all one word renewablethermalwindpower.com This is only for public education not actual specations of structure , only! for community's that are interested in the best of wind & solar together for a complete understanding speaking ingagement.

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#261
In reply to #260

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

06/26/2013 8:55 AM

The heat source is simple math. It is common knowledge that Impact

at 1700 m/s into a solid surface, creates heat.

It is also common knowledge that surface tension of water increases

as the size of the atomized fog decreases.

It is also common knowledge, St Elmo's fire, creates electrical

magnetic heat on impact, at slow speeds only 400 mph, on the windshield.

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#263

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

08/12/2013 9:50 AM

The answer is yes, if you don't measure the energy to heat the feed water.

I have filmed a recent test, showing we pre=heat the unit then turn off the electric heater. With no source of additional heat we have 373 degrees to start, before we turn on the computor controled Injector Driver Module.

Look at the thermocouple digital read out, you will see it go to 408 degrees F, the one-way relief valve adjusts to 195 PSI and the temperature accordingly adjusts to 381 degrees F. as you would expect.

Look up a recent blog 2013/06 by hasselberger. you can see us inject 1525 injections all at 180 degrees .

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#265
In reply to #263

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

08/12/2013 12:45 PM

"The answer is yes, if you don't measure the energy to heat the feed water." And (in Jeopardy fashion) the question is; "Can you make this APPEAR to be an efficient system?" If you also fail to measure the energy required to drive the pump(s), computer control, injector solenoids, etc., you can even get it up over unity!

Otherwise, this seems to be an answer to either an unasked question, or perhaps one buried somewhere in the preceding 262 posts on the topic, with no clue as to which one.

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#267
In reply to #265

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

08/12/2013 12:59 PM

Please remove me from this system

I will never answer anything from people who can't read

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#268
In reply to #267

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

08/12/2013 2:22 PM

Before you leave, you should fix the link to the Hasslberger blog. It does not work (and as Ron noted, shortened and lengthened versions do not work). This makes it appear that you are intentionally being deceptive, whereas in fact you have made several errors and failed to do even a simple test of the link.

You misspelled Hasslberger's name, and made several other errors in the link address. Thus, what you need (for an audience) is a person who cannot read, rather than one who can. Ron, unfortunately, is cursed with the ability to read.

You, however, are cursed with lack of ability to communicate via writing. More than 260 posts into this thread, and you have not yet written anything the "makes sense" in conventional reality. Nor have you provided clear answers to direct questions.

The link you apparently intended to make is this one:

http://blog.hasslberger.com/2013/06/high_pressure_watersteam_syste.html

There, everyone can see that the machine does not work as advertised. There, also, is the incredibly ludicrous claim:

Thermal energy output per hour 14,028 BTU Exceeds
Mechanical energy Input of 1,595.965 BTU.

This is 8.789 to 1 over unity.

The Hasslberger site is fun to peruse, for those who are unfamiliar with sites that present the most ludicrous anti-science and pseudoscience as if they are presenting science. Comical. Makes Peswiki, which is itself laughable (and where your device takes up some space) seem pretty tame.

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#269
In reply to #268

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

08/12/2013 6:30 PM

Thank you,

My eyesight isn't up to par, without good lighting

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#270
In reply to #267

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

08/12/2013 8:04 PM

Good riddance.

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#264

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

08/12/2013 10:02 AM

please go to

http://blog.hasselberger.com/2013/06highpressure waterstream system.html

Look for pre=heat turn off

This teaches you how to inject 180 degree water, into the impact chamber.

The resulting IMPACT HEATING, creates ( relief valve set for 195 PSI) continuous steam. With/out any outside heat.

You will see the temperature only 373 degrees pre=heat and increases to 408 degree F before adjusting to expected 381 degrees F

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#266
In reply to #264

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

08/12/2013 12:57 PM

Link doesn't work, nor do any of several truncated versions, or versions with minor variations.

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#271

Re: Why Not Use Kinetic Energy to Generate Steam

08/13/2013 2:07 AM

I think this idea is good one for NASA to use the free kinetic energy to through Rockets in space, launch satellites in space using kinetic energy of Tornado.

I have another idea to use kinetic energy of the space winds to fly like birds. All you have to do is to locate your airship in the space wind tunnel.

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