Do We Really Need More Non-Engineers?

I tend to agree with Professor Wadhwa. There needs to be a balance between the engineering types and the liberal arts types. Although technology needs to be an important part of the life of this country, we must not abandon the pursuits that separate us from the lower forms of life. Our education system works like an assembly line; churning out engineers like cookies. As a result, you have less educated people; those who know enough to get a job, but unable to conduct a meeting or a social gathering. I feel well rounded individuals are needed more than "specialists". Think back 50 plus years to the eloquent statesmen like Adale Stevenson and Winston Churchill. These were well educated people, unlike the babbling politicians of the present. As they say, a little education can be a dangerous thing. Today's schools are not providing enough. Technology advances so rapidly, that it is impossible to keep up much less get ahead of it. It is the job of schools to educate individuals in the "basics" and this should be done with the greatest amount of attention. This education will follow you throughout life. The technology has to be left up to industry and specialized schools after the basics have been learned. That way you will have well educated people; not just in one area, but over the entire spectrum of life.

And look where those Degreed in Liberal Arts CEO's got us. In engineering based background/education, I believe the business ethics are better

To quote John Keating: We don't read and write poetry because it's cute. We read and write poetry because we are members of the human race. And the human race is filled with passion. And medicine, law, business, engineering, these are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life. But poetry, beauty, romance, love, these are what we stay alive for.

Wasn't John Keating a Poet. So doesn't such a statement seem aweful self serving. Wouldn't it be in his best interest (and book sales interest) to promote the value of his own industry by equating that value to something of known high value to society? Plus it seems obviously erroneous. Afterall, what did people do 10,000 years ago when they didn't have "poetry"? Did they all just die at birth?

Usually such quotes are taken from a discussion, and as such, lose their original context as part of a debate with some devil's advocate... and the devil had had some very testing advocates through the ages.

No. John Keating was a character from the film. He was played by Robin Williams.

And the point of his quote isn't just survival. It is meaning. Someone who is a vegetable can be kept alive by science. It doesn't necessarily mean that life has meaning just because it exists.

Hmm, so what motivates those homeless people to stay alive? I am guessing they don't have a lot of poetry and art in their lives. Science can actually create life now, and maintains it, as well as maintaining the quality of life, it even preserves and maintains the quality of art for the wealthier elements of society to master over one another as a status symbol to demonstrate their wealth and power. Most of society survives and continues with little art and beauty in their daily lives, and they can do this because art has no meaning it is simply a reflection of one persons interpretation of the world around them at some moment in time ( and sometimes in recent history even less thought has gone into it than that). We then gather art and poetry, because just being experienced and knowledgable about art and poetry is a sign of "refinement" and prosperity. In essence you have the free time to waste on such pursuits, and the resources to attain them. People pursue this because it elevates their status in society. It leads to sexual, interpersonal and other resources advantages. I do believe that if you never read a poem you would still survive, and potentially be just as happy or happier, because ignorance is bliss.

So why not regress to living in caves? That certainly would suggest a high level of ignorance and, therefore, bliss.

That's funny... I actually started to do music and mechanical engineering in college and ended up getting degrees in Liberal Arts and Math. I am now in a cubicle and am ok with it. Engineering education in America needs an overhaul -- that's why there are a lack of engineers....

That's funny... I actually started to do music and mechanical engineering in college and ended up getting degrees in Liberal Arts and Math.

I have notice a correlation between engineering and music.

When I was growing up we rented farm land from a music academy, and the music professors would visit our farm, I talked to a few of them and found out that they started their education in engineering and switch or went onto music.

Engineering education in America needs an overhaul

in what way?

Agreed! I have noticed the same pattern. Music is about patterns and performing music is the application of those patterns in real life. (Sound like how math applies to engineering?)

My take on Engineering education (and possibly just my classes at a very large university) is that it was scattered. I feel like the status quo for engineering programs is a "we have to get all this material in with one degree" type philosophy instead of a "let's learn fewer things very well" philosophy. So you get a bunch grads overloaded with information who all say the same thing after 4 to 6 years and out in the real world: I don't use anything that I learned in college on the job. That's why associate degrees from small tech schools are so hot right now among students and employers.

I would recommend that an aspiring engineering student major in a hard science and minor in physics and computer science.

What we need is more educated people, not more of any one disipline.

Your post brought a smile to my face. Way back in my college days everyone had to take a certain number of credits outside of their major. I was in pure and applied sciences and had taken an astronomy course and was quite suprised to find that more than half of the people in the class were liberal arts majors. Alas.....most of them didn't get past the first week after they discovered that there was no discussions on ascending signs, descending signs and your birthday didn't matter.

Liberal arts subjects reinforces the existing creativity of an engineer and hence they become successful entrepreneurs. It is a right time to include liberal arts subjects in engineering education curriculum.

Calculus and statistics prevent most people from taking up the science technology engineering math degrees. Fortune June 2009 had a great article on this subject. here is a graph that shows the real problem:

So much for the "Long Tail"

Milo

I don't think Bill Gates is arguing that we should cancel Liberal Arts programs like some of the responses here are suggesting. I'm certainly not going to argue that non-technical degrees are worthless either. I believe they add balance to our society just like the right wingers and left wingers add balance to our political system.

That being said, I believe that the US economy needs a boost. We will only get that through production and innovation inside of this country. On average, which disciplines in this discussion are more responsible for production and innovation?

Yes, we need more non-engineers. Here's a rough educational program that should start around the age of 17 or 18 regardless of what you call the "school".

Curriculum for the "new liberal arts" (no special order; it's a bare skeleton. Add, subtract, redefine, elaborate as much as you want….):)

1. The art, science and practice of communication

2. The individual human element

3. Our biosphere

4. Economics, macro and micro

5. Organizational structures and behavior

6. Law and government

7. History and its lessons

8. Ethics, morality and belief systems

9. General physics and the scientific method

10. Mathematics, computation, statistics and logic

11. Commercial business operations

12. Practical entrepreneurship

13. Managing individual and family life

14. Focused career/life studies ( individualized syllabus)

First semester orientation courses

1. Practical acquisition of knowledge (1 credit starter course)

2. Overview of career paths and choices (1 credit starter course)

3. Overview of liberal arts (1 credit starter course)

4. Overview of science and technology (1 credit starter course)

Ed Weldon

Those that can teach become teachers. Those that can't teach, teach college...

Hmm, ignorance is bliss they say. Someone has been listening to and blindly following Teachers Unions propaganda. though I must admit, once i and some other graduate engineering students were arriving for a Class in wastewater treatment system design, and they had a techers certification course before ours, it was hilarious to hear them discuss math and use pieces of yarn to explain the relationship of the circumference of a circle to the diameter. I especially liked the one question about the type of yarn they were supposed to use to demonstrate this. though the teacher was a bit irritable running late, about 10 minutes into our class, and i don't think he appreciated a bunch of engineers laughing in the back of the room at his attempts to explain rudimentary mathematics to his teaching students. (and I was the only man in my engineering class.)

My youngest son has a BA in composition and has done very well since graduation. My daughter went back to school to study accounting after she realized the type of menial work her biology degree attracted. FYI Univac 1100 series had the best documentaion I ever used. It was well organized, thorough and lucid. Our assembler instructer wrote the document. I congradulated him on the work and asked him where he studied computer science. He had a BA in English. Univac correctly concluded that if a graduate in English could understand the assembler manual so would everyone else. They taught him assembler and he wrote the manual. Microsoft PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!! Mr. Gates, repeat this mantra! "My Crows often do this." Antsrule

I thought that guy retired?

The biggest problem with liberal arts education is the indoctrination by left wing professors. Do engineering professors try to fit this in to the coursework?

".....indoctrination by left wing professors." That's not the biggest problem with liberal arts education. Actually it's a vanishingly minor problem confined to a few coastal universities. It is not even in the same competitive universe as the Right Wing noise machine.

Educating engineers and scientists has little to do with "left wing indoctrination" except insofar as it might motivate some civil engineers to pursue specialties in environmental engineering and mechanical engineers toward energy saving projects.

Ed Weldon

we could probably simplify

Indoctrination by extremist noise