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Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/12/2010 2:45 AM

I was walking down the street the other day, saw a semi truck, and bam, I had this idea. I scurried home and sketched this. I was immediately sure it would work and that there was a need for it. I had never seen this system before on a semi truck or trailer.. perhaps the need is not overwhelming, but in certain cases, it is an excellent solution. To apply the tracks, you lay out the tracks, back over them, wrap around the dual wheels, and bolt/pin them. (and tighten)

I knew that I had a reference after watching a few episodes of "Licence To Drill" which details the mayhem of drilling for oil in the Canadian north, and especially watching tractor-trailers with heavy loads, hauling in the mud. I thought the idea had been cooking in my subconscious.. and poof. you know how it goes.

I did some searching around on the web, but didn't find any specific references... so I took some time to model it up. (very happy with the results. I used someone else's truck model and just added the tracks.

but after it was all done, I started looking around more.. only to discover that it has been done.. and very similar as I had imagined.. serving the oil industry in the muddy and snow bound northern Canada.

http://www.righttracksystemsinc.com/
http://www.righttracksystemsinc.com/video2-right-track-systems.html
http://www.righttracksystemsinc.com/tandem-axle-trailer-track-systems.html

so I'm wondering how do I get to some really original ideas. I know there is a saying "There is nothing new under the sun" but that clearly has some fallacy to it. otherwise we would not be continuously evolving our technologies.

Has this sort of thing ever happened to you? I give thanks for Google and other search engines that I am able to let go of this one quickly, without investing more than a couple of hours in it.

Chris

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Anonymous Poster
#79

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 8:27 AM

Yes, this is very common.

Unfortunately I live in UK and the company lawyers have written in to contracts that any invention that the company can use becomes the property of the company. It also contains a clause that you must also do all in your power to help the company develo it even after you have left the company. (There is no mention of any payment for any time you spend on iy after you have left the company or retired). there is no mention of who pays if anything goes wrong.

Needless to say, hardly anybody invents things any more. You might be very lucky and get a mention on a patent (not usual in UK as this is in the company name). The last time I developed a seal for the company the contract manager did a deal with a fabricator who got a government prize and award to develop it further. this only came to light when he assembled the unit made from my drawings, and when doing a pressure test fired the stub shaft out of the seal like a projectile because he did not understand how it worked.

Needless to say I like many others are less enthusiastic about inventions. I am not sore about it.I make a lot of money now by using tried and tested technology and keeping away from anything that requires enthusiasm or risk, even though I believe I make a far smaller contribution. I just think it is a shame that there is no legal mechanism to reward the actual inventors (where the invention is beyond the normal scope of work or is highly significant) with a small token royalty as opposed to those who do not have the ideas. I think there is some such mechanism in the USA.

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Anonymous Poster
#84

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 8:57 AM

So the problems of the world could be solved if:

1) Terrible companies didn't steal patentable ideas from their employees - of course anything developed along the line of company business rightfully does belong to the company.

2) The patent office is at fault somehow.

3) Lack of funds prevents many from patenting ideas - of course it probably save people a lot of money as they don't apply for half-baked nonsense either.

4) The military didn't stifle inventions

5) If you have produced an item and sold it no one else can then patent it and make you stop using it. Providing you have proof that what you say is really so.

6) Bureaucrats are behind 99% of the worlds problems today.

Power napping will save mankind!

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#91
In reply to #84

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 11:23 AM

Number 6 and the final comment about "power napping" go hand in hand. Let us put all the bureaucrats to sleep (bureaucrats are most likely unable to power nap, because power napping requires a functional brain to work)....

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#119
In reply to #84

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 7:41 PM

and to think you probably were being sarcastic.. but you have actually nailed it.

if you look at the money that was generated to help Haiti, (2 billion+) and how much actually made it through... well.. #6 is vividly true for me.

and we had a tremendous flow of creativity here on cr4 that could have solved so much.. (and some of which is actually coming to pass, thanks to other individuals)

chris

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#123
In reply to #119

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 8:01 PM

What a thread that was! It has left a lot of questions open but has provided a pool of good ideas and if not in the case of Haiti, they will and should be implemented in other areas were an improvised, provisional infrastructure is needed.

Most of it shows that inventors have a well developed social conscience and are willing to sacrifice time and ideas to help others in need. We shall over come, Ky.

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#132
In reply to #123

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 10:03 PM

Ky,

I love your posts and the way your mind works, but dont insult me with the social conscience stuff, Im a - capitalist, a profitear, an unabashed opportunist, an will take any opening i can get thats legal.

I think this is what drives patentable ideas, money, fame, a chance to show your abilities, an opportunity to leave something behind after we are gone, and it is nice if it helps society in humanitarian ways, but if that was the sole objective more people would be like the "Maker Groups" that publish ideas to the world so the idea can not be then patented, (prior art principle).

I do not mean to be harsh to you Ky, you are brilliant, and funny, but I feel the world is a harsh place and that is the reality of it.

Spacecannon

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#133
In reply to #132

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 10:30 PM

there must be a balance of both, otherwise both break down. (imho)

too much capitalism without compassion leads to massive ugly power struggles.

too much compassion without reward leads to economic and political weakness.

a balance of positive and negative is the engine of sustainability.

we must have obstacles, challenges, and enemies. we must have comfort, praise, and sustenance.

balance.

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#137
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 10:59 PM

GA Grasshopper,

and very wise.

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#138
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 11:22 PM

thank you master.

I larned that one having kids.... being a parent.... part encouragement, part discipline.

give them motivating reasons to want to learn, grow, and be productive, and reasons to be afraid if they don't. (no not beatings... just relevant examples )

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#139
In reply to #132

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 11:43 PM

spacecannon

I appreciate your diagnosis and the attempt to surgically remove the parts were sentimentality or "dreamlandoo" come into the play. Could have not said it better.

We have to be pragmatic about all parts of the system not only the product, invention we are working on. I have noticed that once other parties get involved (they always do at one stage) projects demand such train of thought, as you say

"Im a - capitalist, a profitear, an unabashed opportunist, an will take any opening i can get thats legal."

Very well observed but it is a bit bit off when it comes to my understanding of the commercial side of things. Let me explain and encourage others, as you do, to be frank and honest with them selves or the situation, challenge one finds one self in.

If anyone thinks that just the tinkering part is all an inventor has to deal with, be warned, I know, been there. If you are not willing to actively learn and understand the principles of earning or spending money, this person has not the chance of a snowflake in hell. It is a very demanding process and any one who thinks it can be treated as a hobby will have a bad awakening and not only will this person suffer but his family and friends as well (the guys that funds were borrowed from?)

This is often suggested by the patent help groups (the Davidson's of this world) who ask the inventors to raise only a small amount to start the "process". They just suck and feed on the very well known gullible mindset of the typical inventor. The hyenas of the patent industry. That they still exist is inconceivable, after all those warnings and education that could be taken advantage of.

Let me be harsh on our listeners as well. Many of you will know what I am talking about, but there are also quiet a few, who don't sign in and just flick the posts and want to know more about "it". They would have flicked this by now, I know, but at least I tried.

These have to be disillusioned and the romanticizing of the subject in prior posts (Yes by me and others) is meant for the people in the know. It is not like that at all and the budding new inventor has to be warned about the fact, just like you say, this is a cut throat business and you have to be well trained and up to your best of form and ability to go out and concquor or just even succeed in small little steps.

As you know, only by being open with and to each other can we come up with what the Maker Groups are practicing. I will have to look into that and get a more detailed idea of their organizations. For now I am quiet happy having adjusted to the situation 'as is' and am changing and tacking with the winds and the other stuff I float on.

Thanks for your concern Mate. How about a game of chess one day? Or do some business?. Gotta go now.

Gosh this was time well spent, Ky.

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#140
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 12:04 AM

Time well spent equals paycheck in my world.

Some things I simply do, cause that's what I do.

I lie, you lie, we all cry for ice cream!

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#141
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 12:10 AM

I don't lie!

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#152
In reply to #141

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 2:11 AM

The lie is that I always concern myself with a paycheck. Why did Da Vinci Paint?

"I scream, You scream, We all scream for Ice cream."

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#142
In reply to #139

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 12:24 AM

Ky,

It is not fair that I cannot give more than 1 GA for your answer.

wise truthful advise and well writen, I have to keep a disclaimer at the bottom of my posts.

Patents and production is cut throat, but i digress.

Chris,

You want to be more original in your thought so that you can produce more unique and patentable ideas. This comes from broadening the horizons of your thought, may I suggest travel, even if done on a shoestring, lands radically different that your own allow us to see things differently. If travel is out, the mind can travel thru the internet or national geographic. It all comes down to perspective, seeing things differently has allowed me to see the solution, dont just think out of the box, look under it.

Spacecannon

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#143
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 12:28 AM

Spacecannon-

I could not agree more with the importance of travel as an element of education.

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#144
In reply to #142

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 12:42 AM

"dont just think out of the box, look under it."

I always knew the answer would be simple.

chris

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#145
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 1:10 AM

I saw a lady card reader this afternoon (OK I lied). She told me that some friend will travel a long way to see me. She said that it would be wise to have some drinks for him on arrival. I have no idea what she could be on about but see what my dreams tell me

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#147
In reply to #142

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 1:17 AM

Patience is a word I forgot to mention. Ga's are as fair as they come. Don't worry about the spelling its only a messenger, it's the thought that counts and the deeds. Was that your second move?

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#150
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 1:47 AM

patience is so important, I spent years leading out with my queen and usually getting clobbered, sometimes it was a quick win, but now I see the value in patience.

Sometimes ideas are ahead of their time and a market has to be made or a societies impression of a thing has to be changed, like hydrogen filled Zeplins.

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#156
In reply to #132

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 10:48 AM

Hi Spacecannon,

Bell and Marconi were successful capitalists while Meucci and Tesla were the great inventors.

Cheers

Vince

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#169
In reply to #132

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 5:35 PM

G'day Lynn

I have been searching for the "Maker Groups" you mentioned. I know of the principles of their approach and wanted to know more about them. Seems that I can't find anything related. Have you got a link I could follow up? It would be a nice tool in my bag if I knew more about them.

I searched for "Maker groups", "patent avoiding" and although it is Sunday here I have a lot on my plate and hate wasting time. Can you help me out? I would appreciate it, Ky.

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#170
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 6:43 PM

Ky,

Sorry, that was a generality.

Try "make magazine" and makezine.com and steampunk and all related links.

These folks fabricate some of the most fabulous functional art.

Make magazine provides some wild inspiration for inventors and DIYers, and they build new and unique things, releaseing the process onto the web.

If only the magazine wasn't so expensive.

Spacecannon

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#171
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 7:05 PM

Thanks

We were talking about two different things. I thought it was related to a group I heard of some time back. They just published their stuff and avoided any one from patenting by creating a prior art situation.

I will try and find them because it is a good concept, just need to know more about it. If I keep all to myself it's not going to help anyone and that is the main reason I am inventing, to find solutions to challenges which might help others.

Again, don't get me wrong, I am after some kind of reimbursement for my trouble but am looking for an alternative way in doing so. I thought they would have a formula I could scrutinize and follow, if it makes sense.

Thanks for the prompt reply, Ky.

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#172
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 7:50 PM

This may not be exactly what you are looking for?

http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/551405/Re-Who-s-Got-Any-Good-Ideas

a bit of automation couldn't hurt

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#173
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 8:47 PM

This is more what I was looking for but have to do a lot of reading before I will take part

http://priorartdatabase.com/defensive-publishing.html#how-it-works

They have a great talent to hide the stuff between the lines but it is roughly want I am looking for. Like I said I will take extra care before I do anything.

See what happens and thanks for the link, Ky.

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#174
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 9:19 PM

Ky,

GA, great link, off topic my A**, its all related to inventors and prior art ideas.

This is an awsome site, patents are rubbish to read, (because of the bureaucratic requirments), and anything that presents ideas in plain language, all in one place is fabulus.

It helps to avoid the "has this ever happened to you" situation.

Spacecannon

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#175
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 9:55 PM

I never marked it off topic. I noticed but when I tried to edit it gave me no choice. Don't know what happened there. Matters not much, maybe admin had a bad hair day. Whatever, Ky.

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#180
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/15/2010 1:16 AM

you didnt do it Ky it was the "others", a dark conspiracy to prevent the advancement of independent inventors. This dark conspiracy has existed for centuries and is promoted by the big 17. A global organization dedicated to the stability and shared control of new technology, hence a vast collusional monopolistic conspiracy.

Wow too many twinkies.

Spacecannon

See they marked my comment "off topic"

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#182
In reply to #180

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/15/2010 1:56 AM

And I thought I was seeing things. When I saw your post first it was on topic and the next time I looked it was off topic. Whatever

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#183
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/15/2010 2:00 AM

BTW I lost my toolbar and would have no clue were it went or why. How to get it back, anyone know? I tried some reinstall program but they were asking too many questions after I downloaded. I uninstalled it after that and tried other things but am hopeless with these time wasters. This is off topic for sure so watch me do it.

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#176
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 10:14 PM

Ya!

what he said! not OT.

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#177
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 10:25 PM

Why are your comments now OT?

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#178
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 11:07 PM

because I made them off topic by turning on the switch in the text editor.

(as my comments were not on topic) but you have to toggle it before you
press 'Preview Comment'

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#179
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/15/2010 1:01 AM

Chris - going back to the OP and in the light of general comments since, on the "innovation process" - and one in particular of yours.

(And putting aside tribulations of Patenting, wives and ripoffs, for a moment)

I think we all "have this happen to us" to some extent.

But "innovators" - rather than just go "Oh, it's been done", tend to then ask "so Why isn't everywhere?"

To use the OP example:

If you look at the half-tracks around and the raft of chain based equivalents - "ease of fitting" and "versatility" over the range of bogey systems - might be something your concept can do better.

I.e. Don't chuck it out just because "it's been thought of". See if there is something you have automatically intuited, that they didn't.

---------------------- hold that question for a moment

In the preceding posts / examples above, some ideas were right or wrong, good or bad, but ALL were judged so in the "Time-line" of the day.

That time-line is ever changing.

--------------------- so now;

Questions you might ask / research are what sort of bogey does this idea suit?

What sort of changes have happened in suspension or drives, that effect this idea?

For instance; would a difference in diameters of the bogey pairs cause windup in a bogey drive? - would this over-stress suspension or result in diff failure? If so are the existing only good for lazy axle setups? Can you make it good for 'all' types?

Does it fit easily? E.g. Do they have to remove and replace the outers? Can they get them back on without "special equipment? If it's a roll on tension up approach, how are they joining? Does it fail from abrasion or stress or in the cold? What happens if theirs fails?

Lots of things to ask before you "bin the idea"

---------------------- hold those questions for a second

In summary;

On Patenting - Any 'better way' is patentable. Time-line and growth in "what is now needed" and "how to do things" is why there are ever more.

I.e. It might appear to have been done - but is it done the best way "now" with what we "now know"? to what we "now want"?

All of which means to innovate; Learn the now "now's" - not be a slave to their past "now's".

-------------------

OK?

Ready, set, Go!

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#181
In reply to #179

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/15/2010 1:24 AM

great thinking.

so you are saying, don't stop, regardless of finding it has been done? If it has come to mind, there is a reason, and the time might be right for that improvement?

thank you

ga.

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#184
In reply to #181

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/15/2010 2:26 AM

I'm also saying - there is nothing I have designed or invented that I could not "now" do better.

It's mostly because that innovation provided a new scope, so the next set of 'wants' emerge.

Or, solving that want 'then' - created this "new want now"

It follows; anyone can do anything 'then', better, 'now'.

But as said, (somewhere lately), identifying the 'now want' is step 1.

I'd say in the "doing donuts" link they didn't - so someone else (you) could.

It may not be you get "credit for inventing tracks" - but credit for "the best tracks yet" has some worth.

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#193
In reply to #184

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/15/2010 2:09 PM

Never underestimate the user friendly aspect

or even the perception of easier to use.

easy to read documentation, help that is actually helpful, easy to follow troubleshooting

this requires the ability [or a very short memory] to look at what you have designed with fresh eyes

can you explain the big picture in a couple of sentences?

how many minutes of new information can you audience take in?

can you restrain the urge to launch into a 3 minute soliloquy about some minor point until the audience is ready?

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#203
In reply to #84

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/16/2010 1:25 PM

'Terrible companies' sometimes patent ideas solely to keep their competitors from using those ideas. The ideas are never pursued and the patents are typically extremely broad. Larger companies will hire permanent legal teams to track, interpret and examine patents. They'll review the patent portfolio of companies they're buying. They'll threaten legal action against small companies.

I worked for one such entity. They purchased the small startup that I worked for. The small startup had one major patent coveted by the buyer. It not only commanded a good portion of the market share, but was difficult to get around. There were two companies that did, but their products were not nearly as easy to use. It was interesting to see the nuances that our competitors took advantage of to get their ideas to market.

It was also interesting to see the inner workings of the patent system in the larger company. As I said, any inventions we attempted to patent were described as loosely as possible so as to cover any possible attempt by competitors to patent similar ideas or go around the patent on a technicality. Our manager repeatedly handed us 'invention disclosure forms' so that we could document ideas right away. For any given project, early in the design phase, we'd get together and discuss possible patentable ideas that might go into the product or project we were working on.

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#86

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 8:58 AM

What happens with the tracks when you go around corners?

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#117
In reply to #86

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 7:34 PM

well it is designed for slippery conditions... check out the video link I posted in the OP... you can see a service drilling rig doing donuts..

very insightful question. ga. slippage, one way or the other is the answer.

chris

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#146
In reply to #117

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 1:12 AM

Seems this company is using them for muddy or icy conditions only - for that it makes good sense.

On hard surfaces steerable hydraulic trailers as used for heavy cargoes would be far superior.

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#87

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 9:19 AM

Happened to me once…

When I was younger, I was big into martial arts, but who wasn't as a kid. I was the step-kid though so I generally didn't get financing to fulfill my childhood desires… (i.e. taking martial arts lessons) so I had to settle for movies and books.

I'd mimic the technique in the movies and then read up on the reason behind it in books… one of the things that always stuck was how to maximize force with proper body motion and alignment. This one facet always stuck with me and for awhile it was an obsession to throw the perfect punch. I'd practice all the time on my friends heavy bag, trying to nail the perfect rotation rate of my joints.

Anyway, I then enlisted into the Army and I remember during an early 'smoke session' in Basic how I wish I were able to rotate my arms while doing pushups the same ways I do when throwing a punch.

When I got to my first duty station, Bad Kissegen West Germany, in 1985 I worked on building my first solution. I refined it by the time I got to my next duty station and used it consistently for about the next 4 years. After some neglect, it was no longer useable so I just threw it away.

I never occurred to me that I invented something, or that I should get a patent, until I was channel surfing one night and saw an infomercial for the Perfect Pushup… some 20+ years after I had the idea…

I chalked it up as one of the few 'Doh!' moments I've had in my life.

JavaHead

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#115
In reply to #87

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 7:27 PM

oh I saw those commercials..

you would think there would be venture capitalists knocking down doors saying "if you have a good idea, and are looking for turnkey solutions... just trust us...we can do it together...".. okay I guess they do exist... but who trusts them?

Chris

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#89

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 10:37 AM

You have my sincere sympathy. As a child, I "invented" a sailboat with two hulls side-by-side, reasoning that this would make it more resistant to capsizing. It fell to my father, a veteran yachtsman and a member of the French 10-meter team in the 1936 Berlin Olympic Games, to tell me that there was, ahem, some prior art, dating back perhaps a couple of millennia... and that I could call it a catamaran from now on.

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#92

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 11:42 AM

Try another scenario:

A farmer modifies his planter for no-till seeding. The farmer never intended to patent or sell his modification, he was just trying to make things work better for himself for that season.

The owner of an implement dealership sees the modification and takes pictures.

The dealership owner shows the pics to an implement manufacturer.

The manufacturer makes, patents and sells the modified planter for $2500 more than the original.

5 years later the farmer tries to buy a new planter and sees his modification on the new ones. With no documentation to prove that he came up with the original design, he is forced to pay for something he is quite capable of making himself and has made before.

I have heard about this happening several times the most recent was in the late 1980s though.

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#96
In reply to #92

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 12:31 PM

If he makes the modification they are going to come after him?

Unless the name is JR Simplot or something like that I wouldn't think so. Maybe someone convinced themselves that they could not do it so didn't.

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#97
In reply to #96

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 12:39 PM

You can't buy a planter without this modification, it is now considered a standard part.

Simplot has a reputation for screwing their own customers but I don't think his hand was in this one.

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#98
In reply to #96

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 12:39 PM

Doubt it

You can make what ever you want for your own use

the trouble begins if you try to sell them

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#100
In reply to #98

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 12:44 PM

That is my understanding too - only a problem when you try to sell.

What I meant by JR Simplot is that there is enough money for a shyster to go after plus little guy against big usually means the little guy has sympathy.

A patented plant I know you can grow - just don't sell it. I knew people growing patented plants that were nearing the expiration date - they would use the plants to grow commercially once the patent expired.

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#113
In reply to #96

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 6:57 PM

No.

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#120
In reply to #92

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 7:42 PM

that must happen a lot... who knows.

ga.

chris

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#200
In reply to #92

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/16/2010 10:41 AM

Hey farmatt,

I've been thinking about your post.

Are you positive there is no way to prove that you came up with the idea?

In the US it is first to invent, not first to patent, that has rights to an idea.

You would have to sue, just as you would if you had a patent, but you are entitled to a portion of any money being generated from your idea. (or all of it)

It may be a good idea to talk to a lawyer. Proof could come in the form of witnesses, receipts from the parts you bought to create this modification, etc.

If you decided to sue, the guy that took the pictures could also be subpoenaed. If he was to testify in court, that this was, indeed, your idea and creation, you could very well have a strong case. Just something to think about.

PS If you decide to do this and get a ton of money, could you send me a little?

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#201
In reply to #200

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/16/2010 10:48 AM

The risk there is if you prove him not to be the author his lodgment affidavit is invalid - the patent is invalid. You may not necessarily get the rights awarded by the court.

I.e. be careful what you suit for.

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#202
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/16/2010 12:04 PM

I don't know if it would invalidate the patent or not. I do know that the money being generated from farmatts idea is real. A lawsuit may or may not be warranted or feasible. A conversation a qualified attorney certainly wouldn't hurt though.

Who knows? If an attorney was to find his case winnable, they might even take it on a contingency basis.

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#93

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 12:14 PM

In two occassions it happened to me. In 1980,s I applied for a UK patent to charge the batteries of an electric vehicle by mounting a wind powered generator. They replied saying that somebody has already applied for a similar device and sent me a copy of that application. In 2010 I planned to apply for a US/Canadian patent for recycling used water in buildings to recycle or use to flush toilets or gardening. A patent search showed that already someone has applied for such a device. Some people get ideas very late.The person who can manufacture one and demonstrate the idea will only be recognised.

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#94
In reply to #93

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 12:28 PM

A wind powered generator on the car?

Recycling water is a very old solution in dry areas - They saved you money as it would never hold anyway.

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#95

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 12:28 PM

What an outstanding post !

One forum to rub shoulders with some outstanidng inventors, innovators, thinkers (i assume these qualities are not mutually exclusive)... i feel uplifted quite a bit (i wish all bras felt the same)

i maintain my original position. If you think of something new, you INVENTED it. Doesn't matter if someone else did it before. Think of all those witty statements, repartees, deep thoughts you had...somebody else must have done.... who cares ? YOU thought of it first ! Don't let anyone take it away from you.

You don't let anyone get you down. YOU are the toughest judge of yourself. YOU passed it. Money is not everything.

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#118
In reply to #95

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 7:35 PM

Thank you. good thinking.

Chris

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#99

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 12:41 PM

I'll umpteenth that. Back when voice recognition was becoming commercially viable I had the idea to create a mechanical "parrot" that could be set to record words, phrases, etc. and then randomly combine and repeat them. Thought it would be fun for parties... or just to capture guests unaware and them have them surprised that a mechanical parrot would repeat something they said a few minutes back. Seemed like fun to me. Then years later saw a simpler product version of it in some mail order catalog.

I think this happens because... (sigh). It would require too much explaining and might also be considered too theological -- although it's only describing the construction of man. The short answer is, there is such a thing as "universal mind" that we all tap in to. Even "original" ideas existed before being "received" by a human mind. Many would, no doubt, think otherwise, but a careful observation of the process of solving problems reveals that we are "waiting" as much as anything for something to pop in our head.

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#107
In reply to #99

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 5:34 PM

The idea of intuition, or infinite library, to which we each subscribe, is a thought that is regularly in my head. However, if true, what is the purpose of this massive brain we have. If the knowledge of the universe is available to us in the library of heaven, why have a meat-computer? I have no answer.

As with anything spiritual, the evidence is ony 'everything, and nothing less than everything'. As with anything non-spiritual, we are overwhelmed with evidence that we have what we need in our bioliogy to figure things out.

From an evidentiary point of view, there is also the possibility, without going to spiritual explanations, that we have higher functions, such as telepathy, as a form of communication we don't yet understand, but seems to permit interpersonal communications with other brains, at times.

I would say that there is the least evidence of spirit, and the most evidence of us being electromechanical machines.. but I believe in both. I wish we had a thorough understanding of all our capacities; a user manual for our body and mind and spirit, but we don't... (don't say bible) so I'm asking you all, what is your opinion on how to improve our abilities.

I am aware of the TRIZ methodologies and want to learn more, but it doesn't seem to be opened up to the group. I inquired as to the price of some 'invention machine' software. but have not received an answer.

Creativity, Innovation, and Invention are the most important drivers to sustainable civiliation. It is something that affects us all. Continuous improvement is that which will keep us from sliding back into the mud, and help prevent catastrophic failures. (if only we could 'improve' politics, finance, war, and religion, we would have it made.)

Chris

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#101

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 1:01 PM

I had a Federal inspector complain about having to partially disassemble an electrical enclosure to check the function of a circuit. I thought of a way that the inspectors would not have to disassemble the box.

The drawback here was, it would add to the cost of this enclosure, which the owner/operators would not pay for unless it was required by the federal inspectors. The Federal inspectors said it would be too much trouble to add this requirement.

I feel I did my part.

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#102

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 1:05 PM

Given a set of parameters

it's not at all surprising that different designers will come to similar solutions

consider

do you think you are unique in all ways?

we all share certain traits with different groups

for a given trait would 1 in a million be more accurate?

which then leaves you in a group of people containing 1000's for some traits

The totality of all the traits [sets] is unique for each of us

how many decimal places to the right is it?

99.999999?

how big is the set of people with similar skills?

how much deviation before the solution for a problem is different?

much of solving problems is in what materials you can use, when you go to the "parts room" what is available?

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#106
In reply to #102

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 5:22 PM

yes. I can not disagree with that. thank you Garthh. razor sharp as always.

let me refine my question. If I get to this stage where i'm getting some great ideas as an inventor, but I find that I'm still having ideas that have been already thought of... how can I progress to having a greater percentage of original ideas?

does this mean, as has been previously suggested, that I must simply know a given field of inquiry better than anyone else?

does this mean I must be more connected to a 'higher power' or intuitive source?

does this mean... well what does it mean to you or anyone? I simply want to improve.

chris

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#111
In reply to #106

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 6:39 PM

This is somewhat like the question recently

Can Troubleshooting Be Taught?

Do you want to solve problems?

Or create new industries?

Another interesting pass time is to do the success analysis

why is a particular solution successful?

in ESBuck's example, the technical details weren't as important as good timing & the organization

[Somebody help me I don't know the specifics]

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#124
In reply to #106

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 8:12 PM

So you are sitting at your desk working your way through a problem. After three months, you have eliminated all of the obstacles to the point where the solution is simple, efficient, and marketable. But in Nepal there sits another person who has been working on the same problem. For whatever reason, both of you have arrived at almost identical solutions.

Does that mean that one of you is smarter than the other? Does it mean that the knowledge required to solve the problem is only half yours? Did the solution become easier because two people were working on it? Did anyone bother to read all the way to here? Does anyone remember where I left that thought?

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#126
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 8:53 PM

The glue that connects both is made up (mostly) of unobtainium. Not only did I read to there but I read in between the lines and what I find are trace elements of that said glue.

That thought is on it's way and if we want to catch it, our antennas have to be aimlessly pointing to the spots were we think we had, saw, felt, visualized it last. All of us are smarter than others, just not all of the time, how boring would that be. Reflecting upon the non existent is a hard act to follow but it can be done, at least sometimes.

My response to you is practically proof of that, or so I think, Ky.

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#127
In reply to #124

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 9:01 PM

I'm alive.
I'm like everyone else.
I have drives, passions, and desires.
I feel good when I invent something new.
I get a mental kick out of being unique and creating unique things.
This feeling has become a part of my personality.
When I was young, I didn't know who I was.
I want to be special... rare... valuable.
This feeling helps me understand that I have value.
There is nothing wrong with that.
I can create something that other people value, want, and need.
We all need something to feel good about.
Other people have different drives and feelings, that help them feel good.
Nobody is perfect.
I create value.
I feel good.
I create.
I feel good.
I die.
Hopefully I will be remembered because I created something to help others.
In heaven, I understand creativity is an aspect of creation.

very inspiring thoughts bob_c. ga. right to the core of my original question. If you do remember, please continue...

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#130
In reply to #106

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 9:36 PM

Grasshopper,

You have answered your own question, however ther is a final option;

volume, quantity over quality, "if you ask enough girls out you will get a date"

On the other hand to increase your percentage of patentable ideas it is always possible to refine an existing idea, some do this by patent trolling, many frown on this, but I say if you can analize enough patents and find one you can improove on, then more power to ya.

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#134
In reply to #130

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 10:40 PM

You define patent trolling a little differently than I do- what I call patent trolls are those companies that try to corner a technology by buying up all the appropriate patents on a particular concept, then sue everybody and his cousin for infringement. The recent SCO adventure over the ownership of Unix is a good example of a patent troll (who, thank heavens, got his proper comeupance). Looking for ideas to improve on is not a bad thing to do.

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#103

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 2:34 PM

No. I think this answers the question being asked.

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#105

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 4:15 PM

An example of a good idea occuring to many people:

Who invented the steamboat? President T. Jefferson signed two patents, dated the same day, because there were two contenders, the first inventor and the second, who had the endorsement of Geo. Washigton and others. Both inventors had operating steamboats, one with paddles, the other jet propelled. Neither got rich. Several others designed steamboats but could not commercialize them. Much later, after the patents had expired, Robert Fulton built a commercially viable steamboat (with available parts, like the Boulton-Watt steam engine) which multiplied and expanded trade, especially on the Mississippi. So Robert Fulton is identified as the inventor in American school books.

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#108

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 6:00 PM

Hello Chris and all others!

I like many of you have invented or so I thought I invented something. I have had a few successful patents issued on my behalf. There are a few things that we MUST all keep in mind. Firstly we must realize that because we invent we think differently than most folks, so they think we are strange and we think they are.

OK with that out of the way. Patents are for a particular idea, the idea does not have to work. Most patents (inventions) can be improved enough to be issued a new patent.

I recently had an idea for invention, I did all my research to find a similar invention already being produced. My invention was not exactly like the one being produced. most important mine actually worked! and it had a lot more features and benefits.

A very long story short I perfected my invention, proved it worked and ultimately got a patent for it. I was challenged by the original inventors (a major marine corporation) and I won.

I recently sold the rights, So a point to remember is to never give up. Always explore your ideas and when someone says that won't or it has been done before, Think and say I haven't tried or done it yet.

Best wishes to all inventors.

Inventors create the ideas that engineers learn.

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#109
In reply to #108

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 6:15 PM

it is good to know. thank you. Did the sale of your patent justify all the effort?

Chris.

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#136
In reply to #109

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 10:57 PM

I would have to say yes Chris. I wish I would have made more but about the only way to do that would have been to manufacture the product myself. Since I am not a business man and I don't have the funds required to start a company, selling the product was my best bet.

Most inventors don't get filthy rich off their inventions. If your lucky you may get comfy!

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#110

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 6:30 PM

Yes! Many years ago, back before the internet and the research potential that it gives us, I felt there was a need for a machine attachment that none of my friends had seen or heard of. So I designed this bolt on attachment for a Brown and Sharpe automatic screw machine. Needless to say, when I looked thruogh some old books for some machine dimensions, I found that B & S had not only already thought of this, but had actually marketed a more elaborate attachment. I did make an interesting attachment for the machine, but it had no commercial value.

So I guess it is true; There's nothing new under the sun!

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#122

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/13/2010 7:59 PM

There ate two basic reasons to do a patent search:

1. If you want to patent an idea; and

2. If you do not want to patent an idea, but do not want to get sued for infringing on someone else's patent claims.

Patent llaw: you cannot infringe on anyone else's patent by making, using or selling an item that some else holds a patent claim on, in the U S A, unless the patent is out of date and is public domain category

PEbobimm

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#148

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 1:36 AM

I still believe in, and I know it's somewhat cliche-ish, but necessity is the big motivator of inventing. I'm copying what I wrote on my web sight related to inventing. It's my take on it anyway that I titled "What Inventing Means to Me":

Well, hopefully you feel like you've done your homework long before ever cutting into any metal or spending precious time of your life on spinning another wheel. Then there are times you just can't help yourself and do anyway for the sake of curiosity. There were many great minds before me who often took their life time of measures to validate many thoughts and theories. I wish not to repeat them, but to build upon them in the name of higher efficiencies and to improve "quality of life" for whom I share the elements of this planet. I stick to the centuries of proven science to motivate me along the way. In the process, you hope that the changes you make or the thoughts you bring to a physical reality, produce the results anticipated. Often, more than not, its never quite right the first time only to learn something more about the process that requires... more learning. It often involves many more than one field of science or trade. Then there is the business aspect, less science like, but just as competitive requiring just as much scrutiny. But I digress as it is for the love of creativity and the challenge of abilities and accomplishment of goals. I confess most all met with some degree of success. Learning in all areas related to the projects being developed is continuous and frankly, very fun. I never want to stop learning.

Also to quote one of my favorite inventors, Stan Ovshinsky:

"Anybody who wants to make a revolution, shouldn't grab a gun, just go and start working like we do to change the world by using science and technology."

Quoted from "Who Killed The Electric Car".

And finally, if you can, build it! Prove that your idea can work and eliminate most all doubt, then test it from and by the most appropriate means available so that doubt is further eliminated and that moving to marketing and production is proven to be a reality.

Patenting sucks for me right now and I hate all the careful wording (like using "fastener" instead of the actual fastening device and the such) and getting all the claims just right. Provisionals are basically a joke, depending on what your patenting, so much for easier. I swear it's taking longer for this part than to build the devices themselves! It sucks all your creative energies on a technical level. My bit of rant on that.

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#159
In reply to #148

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 11:22 AM

I believe that if necessity is the mother of invention, then lazy is the father.

Many of the inventions that we see are just modifications of earlier inventions that make life easier than before.

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#149

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 1:40 AM

Yes I've had this happen. My comment as to your invention is that your statement was incomplete. What was it supposed to do? Who would want to use it? What kind of performance would it have compared to whatever is doing that now? Since neither you nor I have seen this in use, the current invention is not highly popular, so could you modify your idea to appeal to (see above)? Don't forget how much does it cost? The original idea is a start, not an end.

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#151
In reply to #149

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 2:09 AM

Welcome to CR4. I'm honored that this thread is your first post. And your insights are excellent. GA on your first try. well done.

Chris

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#154
In reply to #151

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 8:17 AM

Ky, NE & SC

Have all hit on many of the very real & practical concerns, the soft skills, the intangibles.

How good is your bullshyt detector?

Can you go the distance, jump through the bureaucratic hoops with a smile & let whatever official feel like he is somehow responsible for your success & not let you ego show?

Can you lose the minor battles to win the war?

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#164
In reply to #154

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 12:06 PM

Garth,

you hit the nail on the head, I personally have great difficulty kissing the Bureaucratic but, and usually let my ego win all the minor battles and loose the war,

I dont have a good poker face, even when I do bow to them my contempt shows.

It pays to hire a 3rd party without the ego attachment.

Spacecannon

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#155
In reply to #151

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 9:10 AM

I think a valuable problem solving technique is cross pollination.

Have you ever noticed a bit of technology that could be applied to a totally different field?

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#160
In reply to #155

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 11:27 AM

I have seen it in fire service for years.

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#157

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 10:58 AM

There is a lot of research and hard work to develope an idea. Finding the right company to work with is very time consuming. There are a lot of rapid prototyping companies out there that like to charge 2,000 for this and 5,000 for that. This is great way to get a prototype fast. I think large companies should sponsor science projects bruoght to them by inventors. By helping inventors succeed the helping company will also reap a great harvest. Is America ready to help America!

In the early 70'S at the age of eleven I was playing with electronics kit. It came with a motion sensor eye. I set the sensor up in the hallway and when someone walked by the buzzer went off. From that I said would'nt it be nice to have the hall light come on with this same principle. They have these sensor light switches in major hardware stores today. With this same electronics kit I made a shocker. I had battery pack, switch, transformer. Hold wires in hand and hit switch to give shock, then I took one of those dinosaur toys that has a string to move mouth. I ran wires up though to dinosaurs head put aluminum foil on bottom and top jaw and made me a dino shocker. I still don't think they sell this in stores. Tom Daily

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#158
In reply to #157

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 11:18 AM

Quote: I think large companies should sponsor science projects bruoght to them by inventors. Spelling and all.

Can't think of a better way for them to pour money down a rat hole than that!

Also can't think of any reason you can't run out and buy a dino shocker at your local mart!

The term inventor seems to have a lot of different definitions depending on the individual from what I read here!

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#161
In reply to #157

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 11:31 AM

I believe Pepsi is actively looking for inventors that have ideas that would improve the world.

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#162
In reply to #161

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 11:58 AM

I would take the sugar out of Pepsi (and Coke)!!!

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#165
In reply to #162

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 12:12 PM

so true, and so funny Andy! a rare bit of ironic humour

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#166
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 12:46 PM

...and I though my humour was not so "rare" as you appear to think it is!!!!

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#167
In reply to #166

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 1:01 PM

well it was almost the first thing I read this morning... almost spewed my coffee. I'm not a huge fan of cola's, and tend to be aware of 'spin'.

chris

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#168
In reply to #167

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 1:13 PM

OK, I will stop pouting......

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#163
In reply to #161

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/14/2010 12:00 PM

Don't doubt that a bit - would be great PR but that is not the same as mentioned in the post - much more selective

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#185

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/15/2010 2:28 AM

You can vote your own post OT (5 points), either at the time or by rating it later.

If you respond to an OT post, the default is that you inherit the OT, unless you uncheck a box to the lower left.

Moderator Merph once gave 20,000 OTs to somebody, I forget whom.

I will make this OT, and then I will attempt to rate it, maybe giving another 5 OT.

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#186
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/15/2010 2:34 AM

When I tried to give myself another OT (or 5), it said I had already voted, and that my new vote replaced my original one. Hence still 5 OT.

It's nice to know that there is a limit on self-flagellation, even if you are at the whimsy of others....

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#187
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/15/2010 3:32 AM

I'll see if I can help - but think it best you report to Her Holy-ness of BBT.

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#188
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/15/2010 3:48 AM

Thank you; I couldn't get my OT vote above 5 on my own devices. But a little help from my friends...or moderators...

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#189
In reply to #188

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/15/2010 4:44 AM

Dear Editor,

I believe that "on" should indeed be "of".

And in future, please try to refrain from the use of "moderate" in any sentence that may be inferred to refer to me.

Your Fond Servant

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#191
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Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/15/2010 10:42 AM

You are wrong again, as usual. The "on" should not be "of."

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#194

Re: Inventors...Has This Ever Happened to You?

08/16/2010 12:37 AM

Yes, it happens.

Have you read "Act of Creation" by Arthur Koestler. This is book regarding human creativity, parallels between Scientific discoveries, invention, Creation of art and creation of Humor.

In the book author gives many incidences where same inventions are done at the same time, without one aware that same thing is being tried by some one else. This phenomenon author calls as "Maturity of Time".

The book is of 1964, still available in market. Most important thing is that the examples are obviously of "pre internet era". Now a days due to internet, there are chances of knowing what is being done in one place by some one from other place.

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